"This Is the Best Recovery Indicator" - Exercise Physiologist (and why HRV is a sham)

Recovery days are key to preventing overtraining. Overtraining syndrome isn’t well defined, and exercise physiologists don’t have a good way to measure it. But if you’re increasing your training and not seeing improvements, this could be one indication.
To reap the benefits of training, our body needs recovery time for adaptation processes to fully express themselves. Most good coaches and trainers will incorporate a recovery session after all high-intensity sessions and include one “off day” per week.
How can you tell if you’re overtraining? Dr. Benjamin Len Levine, a true legend in the field of exercise physiology, has the answer...
In this video, Ben & Rhonda discuss:
• Why recovery is just as important as training
• Optimal recovery day activities
• The best indicator you're adequately recovered
• Heart rate estimates for training zones 1-5
• Why Dr. Levine doesn't think heart rate variability is a useful recovery indicator
*Download my FREE 13-page Omega-3 Supplementation Guide*:
fmfomega3guide...
Watch the full episode: • Dr. Benjamin Levine: H...

[@FoundMyFitnessClips]

Watch the full episode here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p37WYmdrea-smJI Download my FREE 13-page Omega-3 Supplementation Guide: fmfomega3guide.com/

[@freerider597]

Pp0

[@danciccocioppo9379]

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[@filmic1]

Gosh, at my age (71) I'm just happy that I can sustain a run for two hours. My resting HR can drop to 46 bpm now. Getting my HR up beyond 140 is difficult. On one run my Garmin congratulated me when I hit 170bpm. That hasn't happened again since. Thanks for sharing all that skinny!

[@joshuaunderwood3019]

You can run for 2 hours straight?! 😨

[@2ball434]

That is crazy I'm 19 and can barely jog 5 minutes at 150bpm

[@filmic1]

@@joshuaunderwood3019 I'm a wreck for two days though!

[@BusinessandFinance-ym5bk]

Your heart red line is 220-age=149 so don't push yourself beyond it. Train around 120 heart beats per minute. and as you age, you have to adjust that.

[@SF_Native]

Stay gold Rhonda.

[@JustBrowsing777]

Since I started working out a year ago my HRV has improved, or at least shifted to higher, while I can also tell there is a correlation between stress, poor sleep and training with my HRV. So there is definitely something to it.

[@SoyElta]

Mine doubles on the weekend when my girlfriend sleeps in my bed with me.

[@wardm4]

Yeah. Not sure what he's talking about. If you only use the overnight average to get an idea, then all the factors he was concerned with are controlled. It's been quite a good indicator for me on overtraining and early signs of illness.

[@_Rd3]

I think hes saying the HRV can vary from uncontrolled factors for example: standing sitting talking excetera. Those factors can raise your heart rate. Therefore if you lay in bed and don't talk to anyone that day your HRV may look better but its not an accurate representation of your HRV just because your resting hr is lower than it was yesterday when maybe you worked all day.

[@JustBrowsing777]

@wardm4 That's what I'm getting at too. Any random reading can't be made much of but that average overnight HRV definitely correlates well to what I tend to do the day before or even accumulated lately. I've worn my Garmin 24/7 for a year now so have learnt a lot about my body, habits and how it affects my HRV. Eating late for instance will affect my HRV "negatively".

[@immers2410]

@@SoyEltayou mean halves?!

[@JesusChrist2000BC]

Watched this on 1.5x and it felt like normal speed.

[@geektarded]

Thank you! 1.25x sounded normal to me. 1x was intolerable.

[@cravecrave93]

👏

[@wandelpassiert8064]

I was fine with normal speed, better for recovery! 😅

[@billking8843]

Thanks I am watching it at 1.25X and it is much better than the pondersome pacing it was on.

[@PerformanceThroughHealth]

Thanks for the tip 😂

[@craighoover1495]

I have been using wrist based metric devices for several years to observe what happens when I do different activities for variable time periods. In regards to HRV I have observed that long term efforts (day after day after day, and for several hours on those days) will drive down my HRV. I will also subjectively feel fatigued all thru that time. A prolonged period of rest from those activities will result in higher HRV. When I do shorter (1 hour a day) activities even every day I find that my HRV can be maintained at a higher level for a longer period of time. Certain activities drive down my HRV over others. Weightlifting and HIIT will drive it down. So I have learned that the time honored principal of listening to my body by how I feel and using the hard day, easy day approach works. So when my wrist based device konks out I will probably just go back to wearing a regular watch and do what I always did an probably improve my mental health by doing so.

[@markdawson425]

Love that you see and seize the opportunity to have someone explain more (like with the zones) it's great interviewing. You deliver as a subject matter expert in other videos, and when you interview you let others speak and ask good questions. Not everyone does both well.

[@marcomendez5010]

As a teacher, I recognize the benefits of adequate recovery. During the school year, I am at the gym before 5 am to do an hour workout to make sure I still get to work on time. Over time, I feel my body break down from not getting as much sleep as I would like. During the summer, I am able to get much more sleep and spend more time doing recovery work, and I feel a significant difference.

[@AndreyRubtsovRU]

Gosh. Gosh. Gosh. Before 5 am?? Fuck. Fuck. Stop. For the love of god. Sleep enough. Youll kill urself

[@eliwilson8357]

I am right there with you. I coach football as well, so in the fall I’m lucky to get a 20-30 min workout in 3 times a week. Hope you have a great summer!

[@lionheart93]

yup and its always good to nap before a workout if u have that option as well. Makes a whole difference

[@Sky10811]

sleep is more important vs sport if one needs to chose. we r not in our 20ties anymore..)) i do gym 🏋️‍♂️ twice per week during lunch time and 3 times per week around 7 PM i do relaxing pilates/yoga/stretching to preparefor better sleep. nothing active after 8 pm

[@AndreyRubtsovRU]

@@Sky10811 i think studies now show even active sport close to the sleep doesnt interfere with it

[@WhatisHealth-q7l]

If you do daily moderate activities- multiple activities a day and stay in zone 2, switch up the activities: strength training, balance, low/high impact, endurance/fat burn. Eat well and sleep 9 a night-recovery is a massage, acupressure, ebath and anything more than that you are overtraining. #stayhydrated and don't fall for their traps. 1 hour a day(hard to find the time) in one event or 3 activities for and hour-no chance of overtraining, injury and the goals is to be consistent.

[@StigFerrari]

I didn’t see this guys name, but he certainly knows his stuff

[@FoundMyFitnessClips]

Dr. Benjamin Levine. His knowledge of the heart and how it adapts to athletic challenge (among other things) is immense. I really encourage you to listen to the full interview: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p37WYmdrea-smJI Show notes here: www.foundmyfitness.com/episodes/benjamin-levine

[@creaturecomfort5545]

That is so nice to hear about HRV. I was concerned that mine was low, though i have low max HR and get plenty of cardio. Thank you for sussing this out, Rhonda!

[@oldnatty61]

While this stuff is important for elite athletes it way over complicates things for us average folks. And can become a barrier. All one needs to do is alternate between an intensity day and however many low intensity days needed to recover. You can use the morning waking heart rate if you want or just listen to your body. If you want to save time you can have your strength training take care of the intensity (zone 4/5).

[@Avianthro]

A REAL scientist reminds us, based on decades of research experience, to keep it simple...Use morning rest rate as your recovery indicator, not HRV. I'll listen to him.

[@jaywise991]

He's got problems with his definition of HRV. Like seemed to miss the importance of RR interval timing and stress. Seems to miss the fact that all over the EU and AUS they use HRV for a recovery metric, and seem to be doing pretty well with it. HRV has with out a doubt, and the Fins have all the data, can determine the effect of workload and appropriate recovery period.

[@AlbertWeijers]

"HRV is a sham" is really not accurate. He talks about respiration but my HRV is measured when I sleep. If I do breathing exercises HRV will be better, that's true.

[@nicholas5396]

Amen to the HRV thing. Ive seen correlation with actual feeling ant fitness and recovery, or lack thereof during times of stress and whatnot. On the flipside its also been way off from the ground truth of my body. Not to mention if you eat later in the evening and its measuring during sleep itll be off from other times. I find it fun to look at but have found the resting HR seems to be a better indicator for myslef or trining and fatigue or illness

[@JBActors]

I’ve repeatedly noticed that when I do less, and add way more recovery than I think I need, I improve far more…how weird that it doesn’t FEEL like a relief to learn that…

[@user-vg8ox3he1i]

look up Mike Mentzer. He explains this very well

[@Sky10811]

i do 2 days per week strong workout/weights in a gym and 3 times per week relaxing trainings like yoga/pilates/stretching and 1 day per week padel they compliment each other perfectly

[@Yurkevich22]

5k in zone 5 at VO2max is probably for the Pro's and very serious runners out there. I can't imagine a recreational amateur runner doing an entire 5k in zone 5.

[@fhowland]

yeah 15 min in Zone 5 seems impossible to me. My Zone 5 is 5-7 min max.

[@JeffreyMarciano]

I can but im special

[@noosphericaltarzan]

VO2Max is probably down in Z4 if you can't run 5k in Z5, depending on how you organize zones. If you started to train seriously from now , through the winter, and into next year, you'd be racing a 5k in Z5 in the two Falls from now.

[@Yurkevich22]

@@noosphericaltarzan well yeah that's exactly what I said - it's for serious runners and pro athletes. But most of us aren't that.

[@noosphericaltarzan]

@@Yurkevich22 What I am saying is.. this guy may be a physiologist, but like most if them, he really does not understand the sport. VO2Max pace for me is closer to a 3k pace, not 5k, and you don't have to be a serious runner to condition yourself to run in Z5 for 20-25 minutes or however long it would take you. The pain and hyperventilating you imagine based on previous experience happens from a lack of fitness that goes away pretty fast. You will be running at a pretty high HR, breathing nasally, in about a year or so of regular training. My only advice here is to spend a solid six months at least running slow to build a proper base and then slowly add in high intensity until the high intensity is about 10-20% of your volume. That slow running is what will improve gas exchange in muscles, mitochondria, and ultimately your ability to burn oxygen and fat. You pooped out before because your aerobic system likely is weak and your anaerobic system was trying to do all the work -- for like 25 minutes. Go to any fun run and you will see people essentially doing what for them is sprinting until they crash.

[@windar2390]

I like this guy.

[@Archheret1c]

Good to hear as according to my HRV I'm a 36 year old senior citizen.

[@swb3248]

This clears up a lot. I agree all of my fitness metrics have improved with training except HRV.

[@SimonsTips]

I thought the point of HRV as measured by Garmin watches (can't speak to what other manufacturers do) is it is measured during sleep hours when you're not moving and breathing is presumably more steady, and they track changes over long periods of time vs. one point reading under controlled conditions. So sure short measurements may show a lot of jitter but long measurements can compute a mean that will smooth out the jitter. Again I don't know what other watches or devices do - if they take one short measurement I understand how it could be pretty random.

[@bradgalaxy8419]

I literally have zero qualifications on the subject, but thats what I was led to believe too. clearly if youre running around all day its going to be hard to measure

[@TODDYS-MDS]

I went through a year if constantly getting viral chest infections. I used a whoop at the time. My HRV always increased leading up to the infection. It got to the stage I knew I was in for a cold etc.

[@bluetickfreddy101]

A fine line we walk.😊 Cheers

[@travislrogers]

I appreciate that info regarding HRV. One less mythical target I have to strive for!

[@boudoir00]

The point about standardisation is well made and this is how the Whoop was designed. They were looking for the most accurate way of measuring HRV WITHOUT all the influencing factors and found that it is best measured during deep sleep. So, they realised they need to design a device that tracks sleep and can tell when you are in deep sleep as this is when HRV is being measured during the night. And this is what the recovery score is mainly based on.

[@MMAneuver]

How reliable are optical hr sensors though?

[@boudoir00]

@@MMAneuver Good question - I didn’t trust the Whoop measurements at first. I got a second Whoop device with a trial account, so got two measurements from different parts of my body and they were very similar - I did that for a month. Then, still not quite satisfied I checked my HRV in the mornings for a month using a Polar H10 connected to a different app and again the data were similar enough. So, I know this is n=1 but for me it works and I feel the data I get from my Whoop are reliable.

[@jamesbilsbury9443]

​@@boudoir00getting two different whoops and getting a similar reading only shows consistency of their sensor. You could be getting two incorrect readings or two correct readings. Which one is it??

[@boudoir00]

The two Whoop devices showed that they don't give some random readings and that it doesn't really matter where I wear it on my body. That the readings themselves were not incorrect was checked against a Polar H10.

[@MMAneuver]

@boudoir00 being accurate to tell what heart rate zone you're for exercise might not be accurate enough to properly record beat to beat intervals (hrv) is my point, nor sleep stage tracking.

[@richardmiddleton7770]

HRV increases over time as fitness improves so you can do a load of endurance training, be really fatigued, but your HRV will actually increase. FWIW my HRV is higher and resting HR is lower if I go low carb and stop eating 4 hours before bed. This is from my Oura ring which I've used for 4 years.

[@pensfan718766]

Love my oura ring, five years for me! Endurance athletes are the outliers. Everyone else has paltry VO2 max and is more affected by stressful movements, like prolonged yardwork or walking up stairs. Now imagine allergy season, stressful work life, and a partner giving you the third degree. All that stress affects your heart rate and your breathing. HRV is going to be a mess. I don't even look at HRV anymore. But I hope we can get to the point of dialing it in soon

[@BrendanTietz]

I completely disagree with everything in this discussion. First off, strength training cannot be recovery training. Secondly HRV is the best general stress marker BECAUSE of how affected it is by many factors. I’ve been powerlifting and general fitness coaching for over a decade and HRV has been the most reliable metric for predicting peaking and performance in my athletes and every day folks. I can’t speak for other sports. Also to have 5 zones of cardio is extraordinarily specific to running. That large of a skew in nearly every other sport is too specific to be useful. We really need scientists who actually train hard lol because if you just wear a whoop and track HRV after every hard day of training, you’ll see how reliable the metric is. Academics are lost in data

[@jrkob1156]

Clickbait title. The claim that HRV is a sham is grotesque. Garmin and other devices provides HRV numbers at night only precisely to avoid the operational issues he is referring to (he doesn't seem to be aware of it). Correlation between HRV and sleep quality in particular is astonishingly high.

[@hickorysocks2628]

Bryan Johnson has stubbornly low HRV yet has the best sleep score of anyone out there

[@jrkob1156]

You are missing the point. HRV has to be looked at in relative value. Not absolute. My own HRV has relatively low absolute value (around 35) and yet I have high quality sleep. There are a couple of studies out there that have attempted to demonstrate a correlation between longevity and high HRV absolute value, I don't think any is very convincing (but again, that isn't the point).

[@Steve-ArfArf]

​@@jrkob1156ok but if there's a correlation between HRV and sleep quality and Brian Johnson's HRV is low and sleep quality high, and focuses on quality in all other areas of his life, why is his HRV low?

[@jrkob1156]

​@@Steve-ArfArf I don't know and I am not even convinced it matters. If there is clinical/medical evidence that absolute value of HRV matters, I haven't seen it. What matters is his overnight HRV vs his HRV baseline. As far as I'm concerned, my HRV baseline is 30 to 35. On those nights I got 35, I feel well rested. On those nights I got 30, I don't feel rested. I simplify, but the point is made. It correlates very well. I can also see it at my cardiovascular performance at the gym on the rowing machine in the morning (I'm a rower). (I don't think that looking at what a single individual - in particular a KZbinr ! - claims in order to try to make it a rule is good science. Better look at what happens in the general population, which the individual you refer to isn't).

[@Steve-ArfArf]

@@jrkob1156 ok I understand you now, that makes sense. So you need to find your personal optimal HRV and work off of that

[@Sweet..letssurf]

Today i took a recovery day… Jacuzzi Light bike ride Massage Nap

[@AndreyRubtsovRU]

Now someone is just showing off

[@paddyotoole2058]

That’s really, really interesting. Do tell us more about your daily life and fill the emptiness. Did you have a nice breakfast as well? And what about the weather where you are?

[@Steve-ArfArf]

​@@paddyotoole2058why so salty?

[@Sweet..letssurf]

@@paddyotoole2058 Steak 🥩 for lunch .)

[@Sweet..letssurf]

@@paddyotoole2058 🌞 78 Live @ the beach

[@WadeHodges]

70 yo……… I do a variety of aerobic training using more or less musculature….. From running roads, trails, steep hill repeats, cycling, cycling intervals, rowing and rucking with weighted pack!!! I also strength train every third day…… Resting HR is 43ish bpm……… doing zone 5 intervals or steep hill repeats my hr will level off at about 156-158……….. example yesterday rode my bike trainer for 1 hr during which time I threw in 8 x 90 sec sprints at a 155 hr with 2 min easy riding between reps…….. after getting off bike took 5 min recovery before getting on the concept2 rower and rowing at a 132 hr for 2,000 mts then added 6x1 min intervals before cooling down for 10 min……. After a 5 min recovery got on treadmill to extend aerobic work by walking at 8% incline and 3.8 mph for another 30 min at which time the body was in a comfort zone and 125 hr………. Total cardio respiratory workout of 110 minutes.

[@claytronico]

@ 11:00, 0.1Hz is 10 seconds per cycle. he just got the units flipped. easy to do, just wanted to clarify. Hz is cycles per second. 1/Hz is seconds per cycle. When you study acoustics, the units are bonkers.

[@grahamarthur]

I completely disagree re HRV. For me it’s a great predictor of when I’m getting sick and when I’m recovering. I spent a week in hospital with pleurisy and the graph of my HRV 100% reflected my health. I showed it to my GP. She was shocked.

[@huntsail3727]

Interesting and well presented. Thanks!

[@4plum]

At 10:55, 0.1Hz is not 10 cycles per second. 10 cycles per second is 10Hz.

[@user-fl5lr1nm5v]

HRV needs to be measured in a consistent fashion. For example, first thing in the morning when just waking up and before getting out of bed and respiratory rate and heart rate are still steady. Then it has some meaning of whether one has recovered or not from a workout.

[@Subtlenimbus]

I had to stop paying any mind to the HRV on my watch (Stress) because I noticed that every time I drove a forklift it shot up to maximum - probably because I was sitting on top of an engine, and the vibrations messed it up.

[@clingenpeelc]

Vo2max for a 5k is very different from what I’ve come to understand as a 5min effort.

[@jamesmungall6669]

These heart rates don’t have any relevance unless they’re tied to age and fitness

[@david894]

I wish he didn't lower his voice at the end of sentences. Very hard to hear.

[@alwayslearning4]

My HRV doesn't change much even when I'm exercising intensely back to back to back days. However, one night of 3+ drinks and it drops. My Garmin tells me to focus on recovery, so it leads me to believe HRV is correlated with sleep quality more so than recovery from intense workouts.

[@briandriscoll1480]

Back when I was a recreational runner, I typically ran one day 5-8 km, nothing the next. I never ran on consecutive days. No one had to tell me that. My body did. And it didn't stop me from achieving a pretty good level of fitness, evidenced by a lab-tested VO2 max of 62 at age 43. Today, at almost 69, I have only the word of my Garmin watch, which lets me claim a 51.45, though today I cycle rather than run. Factoring in heart rate, I seem to be 150 (140-160 ) during a 'hard' 20-minute segment of a longer (hour+) ride, with an estimated HRmax of 172-175 (though Garmin thinks its higher). My HRV is in the mid-30s.

[@bobzacamano658]

Im constipated

[@MrMojo271]

Did they somewhere actually say what the actual indicator was? This gives true meaning to “in the weeds”

[@aarondcmedia9585]

Morning resting HR.

[@FreemanFitness21]

Where was it ever stated that HRV was an indicator of recovery?

[@2boostedsilverado]

It seems like the Apple Watch might not be accurately tracking your HRV. From my observations, my HRV improves when I balance training and rest. When I train too hard, it goes down; if I rest enough, it goes up. However, if I rest too much, it also goes down. Additionally, when I'm sick, it plummets significantly. Garmin Forerunner 965, only taken off to charge and swap bracelets after running and swimming since June 9th/23

[@shelly7017]

I'm sure when we go into REM sleep, our heart rate has a lot of variability too.

[@jaywise991]

NASA didn't think it was s sham.

[@hoppy303]

NASA didn’t think failing solid rocket booster o-rings was a problem

[@holistic-energy-center]

Great!!

[@lancastergerard]

Anyone that knows even a little about HRV, knows you shouldn’t use your ‘Apple Watch’ and that the breathing will affect the result. Dr patrick should bring on someone from the HRV side to discuss.

[@esgee3829]

maybe it's best to get the guest and host wearing monitors so they can hear how they and the other person sound on the recording (eg the table thumping from this guest or those who are too close or too far from mic)? Most humans will self-correct very quickly without a producer's help.

[@AFSMG]

The areas mentioned in this video in relation to heart rate, don't they depend on age? Zone two is the same for 20 years as it is for 60 years. Thank you. Great channel. Greetings from Spain

[@NaumHN]

strength training is not and cannot be recovery training.

[@briseboy]

Yup. You can add resistance training to your longer efforts, to discover your necessary recovery day without the stress of believing you're not training hard enough. If you feel like totally flopping, you might be having a good rest day, but things like sunburn, crazy emotional experiences with unfriendly people, ALSO deplete your cellular anabolic activity. Remember, EVERY cell is CONSTANTLY involved with both catabolism and anabolism, day and night. As the speaker alluded in half a sentence, without sufficient emphasis, DON'T pverloead your emotional capacity. My alternately screaming and utterly inattentive parents modeled how destructive our alcohol/religion crazed society destroys both mental and physical abilities.

[@SevansDog-ju4fb]

For the cardio-respiratory system it can be recovery for sure.

[@lorenheal]

Your legs don't care if do pushups.

[@dudel39]

It entirely depends in what you are strengthening. A full upper body workout is completely fine when youvare recovering from cycling...

[@nordicwilly6650]

Need to add time stamps please!

[@User85306]

If you sleep your breathing rate is not extrinsicly influenced and you also don‘t stand up and sit down again. I‘m courious about why he wants to take credits away from HRV and its relevance. There are far more and different reasons why HRV is a delicate parameter to judge your state of recovery (one of them is the different methods of how you can calculate it etc. but for sure not the reason he mentioned🤣) For me HRV on my Garmin Device is a really good indication for my level of recovery AND cardiovascular fitness. But not the only one. It corelates perfectly with the mentioned factors (recovery - mental and physically and fitness) The last minutes of the video are there fore sooo wrong😂😂 i can‘t believe it!😅

[@pieroreynolds8865]

Why is HRV reported as an absolute number rather than as a fraction of average time between beats. It is obvious than HRV is related to the actual heart rate and will in part decrease as people get fitter just due to the resting heart rate decreasing.

[@tonyrabone4668]

Really good info. 5km in zone 5 sounds aggressive. Controlling variables for HRV is easy. Same time every day before getting out of bed. Breathe the same rate. Stay still. It doesnt need to be accurate. On average it definitely tracks and indicates lifestyle and training stress / balance, sleep trends and particularly alcohol impact. Keeps you true, so on that matter he's missed the point for the vast majority of amateurs and the general population. But great interview.

[@TheReubah]

hmmm. he just said the muscles have to produce protein. I think he means the body has to produce muscle(which is made of protein) I know its a nit pick but it undermines his competency and can often show they don,t understand the topic as well as they claim to.

[@miming_an_elephant]

Actually osteoblasts and osteoclasts are producing+destructing=remodeling our bones all. of. the. time. So i imagine for muscles it's not that different ? ?? ? Muscles fibers are probably made in situ where they are going to be used. ?? No?? _ i don't remember that this was specified clearly in my animal physiology course ? So i don't know .

[@DanRoch]

Has he not tried using Garmin HRV? I mean he should at least give it a go before writing it off. It measures HRV only when you're sleeping eliminating a lot of variables he discussed.

[@arshakh1]

How does she impact these different zones?

[@jonhadley-zx2iu]

When you've got a Compromised Immune System or an Auto-Immune it will take you far longer to recover, due to your Mitochondria already being damaged:-(

[@SHEVALDINI]

Hmmm… okay, and how about not concentrating on accuracy of the scopes and volumes (HRV) but compare them one to another. I think that the reason Garmin watches require us to wear them for at least three weeks.

[@TechHead03]

He didn't convince me HRV is a scam, nor did he use those words. No slight on him though. These click bait titles are frustrating but I can see why even scientists feel they need to use them now.

[@firstprincipleslearning]

He said it is very difficult to measure it, therefore don't trust your watch

[@TempBall]

I dont know about you guys but my normal avg daily hrv is about 60-70 and when i train hard or take little bit alcohol my hrv slams rock bottom. Training under 30 hrv is absolutely not possible for me and it takes 3-4 days come back up to normal levels. In this time i cannot run, swim or bike even close to my normal pace and i get super tired very fast

[@esgee3829]

Would be interesting to dig more into the data about definitions, controllable variables, and outcomes with hrv, hr, or anything else. Intuitively, all the factors the impact hrv, as the guest discusses, also impact hr. so, i'm only left wanting more information from this. not convinced of one, the other, or some third, even better predictor which is easier to measure.

[@alansnyder8448]

I feel the headline "HRV is a shame" is too strong, especially the way it is measured with the Whoop strap which takes a measurement once per day while you are sleeping. HRV the way the Whoop strap does it, is I feel an 80% accurate indicator. And I'll give some examples to back it up below. My daughter is a D-1 college swimmer who has qualified for the Olympic trials and been to the NCAA championship meet. (i.e. about top 100 in the nation). She has used the Whoop strap and finds that it gives a pretty good indication of how she is doing EXCEPT during the end of the season taper. During the taper part of the season, her HRV seems to go low even though she is actually peaking. But in season, during the loading phase, it accurately is low when you have a lack of sleep or say drank alcohol at a college party, or are a little overtrained. Speaking from my own experience as a fit 57-year-old, who ran cross-country in college and has maintained fitness as I aged. I've been wearing the Whoop strap 24/7 for the past 2 years, and every morning I look at my HRV "recovery score". I would say 80% of the time it accurately reflects how I feel. When I'm sick it drops, when I've not been training for a while and am losing fitness it drops and most recently when I got a vaccination, it dropped. On days with is it below 20% it accurately reflects how I feel. From my personal experience, I would NOT call HRV as used by the Whoop strap a shame. I would call it an 80% of the time right / 20% of the time wrong, indicator.

[@quengmingmeow]

Good info. I’ve been looking for a wearable that actually gives me the “real data”….not data converted into a “stress score” or some other fancy name. Garmin uses the stress score which I have found to be horribly unreliable in seeing any type of overtraining situation. It’s great to see the effect of alcohol on sleep. It’s great to see what is happening when you are sick. But trying to use it to tweak training? Pretty useless in my opinion. The resting heart rate after waking up is something I’ll start trying…..it’ll give me an earlier wake up call, but if it seems to be accurate, then no biggie. That’s the key….having a metric to decide if I need to adapt the day’s plan to something easy.

[@jefff4848]

I thought that too. Especially as it's so highly regarded by Joel Jamieson who is himself an expert in this area

[@ta-da3054]

Whoop has poor tracking metrics and you and I both know swim training uses primitive training methods with little recovery sets

[@alansnyder8448]

@@ta-da3054 I completely disagree about swim training using primitive training methods. Once you are with a top 10 or top 20 college and especially with an Olympic-level coach it is very advanced. In fact, I think other sports could learn from them. The interval training, lactic acid threshold training, and especially how they deal with tapering at the end of the season are very advanced. At the raw athletic level, I didn't see that level of thought with the more glamorous football or basketball team training. Regarding Whoop training metrics, I personally am happy with them at an 80/20 level for keeping fit, and I have 2 years of 24/7 metrics.

[@ta-da3054]

@@alansnyder8448 top programs will over train. Being from a top 1 school I can say bob is a great example of it. High volume training is only possible if your a world class kicker such as phelps and Leon. Herb on the other hand is changing the sprint game.

[@JamesKnightSmith]

I love a good rest day, feel so much better, but the 10 beers seems to not be working.

[@nach4642]

But don't people use HRV during sleep as a metric? A lot of the conditions he explains are not generally occurring during sleep where people have relatively stable cadence during restful periods. Over-training impacts sleep and so your HRV relative to some baseline (unique to you) could provide an indication for you to reflect on your own experience and training. Yes, external factors unrelated to training can also affect sleep/HRV, but you would understand what your measurement means to you. Earlier on in this segment, he suggests no hard and fast rules on threshold ranges. I'm not sure why we can't use no hard and fast rules on HRV and not assert its hoogabaloo-mumbo-jumbo because there are external factors to consider. Maybe there is nothing conclusive about the direct measurement or what absolute number is given to you, but diverging from some established baseline is always an indication of something, especially if the measurements are taken during restful states like sleep where you're in a relatively controlled environment.

[@MMichiganSalveRegina]

Did he say the muscles have to produce protein...?

[@wildcsgotactics]

Does he know that smart devices that one uses to measure HRV also measure breath frequency?

[@mountaingoattaichi]

I use Tai Chi for recovery. I think tai chi is under utilized by athletes as a tool of recovery.

[@AndreyRubtsovRU]

I found it USELESS waste of time. Maybe for balance in last years of life but before that... Old fashioned BS

[@jozefwoo8079]

@@AndreyRubtsovRU It actually has good evidence for blood pressure lowering.

[@AndreyRubtsovRU]

@@jozefwoo8079 fair enough

[@mountaingoattaichi]

@@AndreyRubtsovRU I think that says a lot about you. Lol!

[@AndreyRubtsovRU]

@@mountaingoattaichi i am so deeply wounded, mate

[@oolala53]

Does Rhonda have any videos more particularly geared towards looking at developing VO2 max, which is supposedly a marker for longevity? I bring that up because I have read that the value of zone five is to some degree moderated by the baseline development of zone two. Can recovery be happening with consistent zone two?

[@MMichiganSalveRegina]

I don't have anything in for HRV but it's almost always measured only in your deepest sleep. Whoop admits it came up with sleep tracking for this reason alone. So that's about as controlled in breathing and activity as you can get ... don't quite get the critique here

[@restlessdunedain]

Well, that's why HRV is measured when you sleep, no? No breath cheating

[@t.c.pthecompletepackagellc21]

A friend of mine has a whoop & she drank heavily 1 night & her HRV went down dramatically & her RHR shot up so, it seems whoops HRV is relatively accurate

[@someguyusa]

My HRV only improves if I take like a week off of training entirely. Seems like an unreliable metric until we learn more about it.

[@wazzup105]

HA!.. here I thought I was way too simple by using my resting heart-rate.. turn's out I'm not retro, but ahead of the curve ;-)

[@aussiechiro]

Watched it on 2x and it was acceptable

[@trevormason]

Good feedback on HRV. Thank you.

[@jdlc903]

So is it possible to reverse heart shrinking?

[@x-techgaming]

His mic sounded terrible... Like there was compression or noise blocking, cutting off his voice all the time, and constantly increasing/decreasing his volume.

[@4leoncio]

Is this indicating that, since HRV can be changed with breathing, it is worth to use breathing regularly to improve HRV in general? As e.g. the studies on breathing show it can lower blood pressure... Or just that HRV is not a good measure only?

[@appearance8932]

HRV measurement Abandoned here. Way, way too many times telling me I should take it easy when it’s a day that would be normally used for working out. Haven’t missed it a bit.

[@scottyg5403]

Seems like he's mainly talking about cardiovascular training not strength training. Yes strength training raises your heart rate but only temporarily. But I'm not an expert.

[@bobzacamano658]

I’m constipated

[@pierrex3226]

Whoop users: say whaaaat?

[@TheNormallyOpen]

You could invite someone on to debate HRV with this gentleman, I regularly train with an RF breathing protocol, not for exercise recovery though. Poor choice of title, does not do your guest justice.

[@sethgilbertson2474]

Does this apply to strength athletes or is this mainly for endurance athletes?

[@sirus312]

Im guessing all

[@ПантелеймонКичеев]

Rodriguez Anna Brown Ronald Davis Patricia

[@AustinHowd]

Def up the speed

[@achtungjamie]

What about upper / lower splits

[@PriusTurbo]

Dr Mike on the Rennaissance Periodization channel gets into recovery times splits etc in great detail.

[@SaiyoniAkhter-q6r]

Miller Sarah Williams Carol Lewis Thomas

[@gustavfranklin]

Resting heart rate increase, for everyone who could not find it amid the waffle. :)

[@SoyElta]

Rhonda eats so many fruits in vegetables that she has the asterxanthin skin tone.

[@vincentanfi]

Have a couple drinks of alcohol the night before and then tell me about your HRV lol

[@madhousemusic3]

By his same logic a persons strength fluctuates +/- 10% day to day so is there no point in knowing the weights you put on a barbell or training at all?? nonsense... He probably had good intentions, but saying something contrary to consensus isn't always helpful (espcially if its just an opinion).

[@長谷川樹-y3j]

Perez Frank Moore Margaret Williams Jessica

[@saskhiker3935]

He was talking about the zones but wasn't factoring age. My zone 2 is gonna be a lower hr than a college runner.

[@EverettWilson]

He mentioned that he was basing the zones off a max of 180bpm. And he’s simplifying even then so he can teach the concept.

[@mediaburn2]

HRV & AG1, which is better snake oil?

[@frankreyes4]

Why is this guy whispering? Either put a mic up his nose or make him talk, louder. Please. Thank you.

[@ryanmiskin8925]

What is with the continuous BS about HR monitors on watches not being accurate? There has been test after test done where a watch is within 1-2bpm of a chest strap...that's good enough for 99.99% of athletes.

[@japanskakultura]

dudes nose looks like he got drunk in 1981 and is still riding the buzz