THIS IS WHAT BAD MATCH UPS REALLY LOOK LIKE

I hear everyone talk about bad match ups left and right, but I feel like they don't know what TRUE bad match ups look like! Sit back and lemme teach you something real quick....
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[@fakeigniz13]

That second one, it's like Guile developed his fighting style specifically to combat Bison

[@freelanceryuu]

There you go.

[@dasdet6505]

Gee, I wonder if there was a traumatic event that happened relating to these two characters for guile to act this way

[@reversegoat3260]

It's not a bad match up, it's just lore accurate.

[@Vicious-jw6lr]

Guile was built to shit on M. Bison, bringing lore to life.

[@TheShotgunShovel]

Lore accurate.

[@MrCactuar13]

Being cornered is a lowkey buff to Guile because now he doesn't have to fear cross up

[@malcolm8815]

You can still cross up Guile and any other character in the corner. And it's actually easier to setup an ambiguous crossup since the spacing will be more fixed.

[@theedwardian]

There are a few characters that function better in the corner. Vega has faster options, Chun-Li gets some easy side-switch shenanigans.

[@TelvanniGuard]

@@malcolm8815 Is SF4 the one where certain characters could only crossup on the right corner? I feel like I remember that being a thing.

[@malcolm8815]

@@TelvanniGuard Not SF4. Corner changes nothing regarding cross up in that game, although it might change some setups like unblockables.

[@Micha-Hil]

"sweep is a good anti-air" ST at its finest

[@edlerkrieger8045]

I mean it works like that in some other games too

[@thehermitwizard]

To answer Justin's question on how Tager wins vs Arakune: you option select back to character select and pick a character that isn't Tager. and the funny thing is, this matchup used to be even worse back in Calamity Trigger. Arakune vs Tager might as well have been a 11- -1 matchup in that game.

[@roguebanshee]

I believe in CT it was mostly considered a 9.5-0.5 matchup. You could technically win a round or even a match as Tager, but you basically had to guess every 50/50 perfectly.

[@foyo5497]

Guile puts himself in the corner and gets a corner buff lol

[@noBody-ue6cs]

Lmao

[@MidKnightOTC]

M.Bison is a nightmare matchup for Deejay. He punishes every single one of deejays normals for free.

[@Chris-cq8gu]

I dropped DJ for Guile for a while in 4 just because he would get eaten alive by so many characters. It really only got worse for him as everyone else’s power level got higher.

[@ethanhinton4549]

Deejay in 4 is kinda sad in general. He isn't outright BAD or anything, but he doesn't do anything the dedicated charge zoners or rushdowns can't do better, and can't really justify having the mediocre potential for both.

[@thedangerroom7747]

Just don't use normals

[@VeronikaGama]

OH, REALLY!!!!????

[@phaze12490]

If u talking bout sf4 dj is most definitely even with bison

[@chriswest6988]

Very educational video. Before now I didn't realize BlazBlue was about Sonic the hedgehog killing Potemkin.

[@rebirth2526]

I first thought it is Shuma Gorath.

[@nicks4802]

When will they learn?! That actions have consequences?!? You frickin fricks can never be quenched

[@Darkkfated]

@@rebirth2526 "We've got Shuma-Gorath at home."

[@LumaTo]

You got it right. A disadvantaged matchup is different than a bad/terrible matchup. The people that tend to pick stronger characters are also the kind of people that just won't tolerate a 6-4 matchup. The people that roll with low tiers know the true pain of a bad matchup.

[@TheBlueArcher]

Yeah, I feel like people complain so much about matchups that are probably 6-4. When OG games have 8-2s and 9-1s. that huge emotional payoff when you win such a bad matchup... you don't get that in non niche games anymore unfortunately.

[@no64256]

​​@@CMCAdvancedalthough I love watching that game, I've never really played it. Are Hugo and Bison really that bad there? I recall the Supercombo wiki saying both characters were god awful, and were below Dan on the tier list

[@zelassin]

“Bad” can imply any level of bad, from slight disadvantage to complete blowout. You’re just arguing meaningless semantics

[@THENAMEISQUICKMAN]

As someone who plays Dan in SF4... I know agony

[@DemonicShade]

Man Smug's Dudley is always a joy to watch.

[@neohayabusa13]

indeed

[@ColonelSandurz]

You should do a series called Bad Matchups

[@tedjomuljono3052]

Mad Batchups

[@pastorofmuppets9346]

Life vs me is like 9-1

[@OugiEin]

And then explain the differences between 7/3's, 8/2's etc

[@THENAMEISQUICKMAN]

That Dhalsim vs Yun matchup was brutal... but on the other hand it was Filipino Champ and I've still not forgiven him for his Marvel 3 Phoenix war crimes, get his ass Daigo go on lad

[@Gash_Kobeth]

"THIS IS JUSTICE !"

[@THENAMEISQUICKMAN]

@@Gash_Kobeth "WE ARE THE WORLD! WE ARE THE CHILDREN!"

[@Epzilon12]

that Zod vs Luthor matchup looks so annoying. I imagine that player had to play it so often too.

[@TesterAZM]

Justin: NR you have to fix your game, that fireball spam is OP! Also Justin: picks classic Sagat in SF2T...

[@maxhalley4373]

@@TesterAZMNot just any Sagat. The dreaded O. Sagat. With some occasional Vega wall dive loops on the side. I’m sure if Akuma wasn’t banned in serious play he would pick that shit all day.

[@chiarosuburekeni9325]

That first matchup was brutal. Honda literally couldn’t do anything.

[@lestonclark2398]

Nah I've seen hona give some shotos hell he just gotta belly flop when he throws the fireball and do it to go through then pressure him with meaty belly flop justin had a video where a Honda was giving him hell

[@dasuperbeefman]

@@lestonclark2398 was this in super turbo tho? cause he prob doesnt have the options to get around it. Plus, you gotta remember, that is apparently one of the best honda players in the world.

[@chiarosuburekeni9325]

@@damsen978 lol no. Bro was absolutely locked down. Jumping would have been even MORE disastrous, if that’s even possible lol

[@chiarosuburekeni9325]

@@damsen978 you really critiquing the best Honda player in the world at least at that time based on what Justin Wong said? Like if he’s that good he knows what he’s doing. It’s just unfortunate that he couldn’t actually do anything in this match up.

[@TheBlueArcher]

​@@damsen978 ​ Honda is fat. Also, Jwong mentioned he has that directional influence on his fierce to help, but its still hard. and even if he does it, He's committed to a neutral jump when the ryu can move. He doesn't receive chip but he has even fewer ways to approach after landing, Sometimes, even if he makes it over, it's not even a neutral situation when he lands so he can't even guess and is forced to block another fireball. Movement is so important

[@thescribe509]

That might have been the most important match of that Bison's career, but for Guile... Wait.

[@brycemiller831]

The worst matchup I’ve ever seen was little kid vs Justin wong teaching him that this is the real world.

[@Fawlker]

That Guile vs M.Bison was lore accurate! You can feel the rage in his punches, lmao😂.

[@BlueBasuk]

Smug's Dudley is monstrously mean, and that's what got me to follow him. Keep it classy

[@FadedLee_27]

With the greatest of ease.

[@neohayabusa13]

With real Dignity

[@Skkra]

I remember that Injustice match. Absolute hell/garbage. 99% of the time it's unwinnable at high level.

[@mannerrules]

Arakune and his drive...get cursed, and suddenly you're dealing with the Wu-Tang Clan. Killer bees and all!

[@wumpmas2]

this is exactly the context i like these matchups being shown off under. like, i think its so lame when someone makes a valid critisism of a modern fighting and some old timer just throws a gif of an old 9-1 matchup at them to shut them up without actually engaging with the critisims being made. but between this video not being made in response to anything specific, and focused entirely on showing off older games, not trying to shit on folks who play new games, makes it such a fun watch and an interesting history lesson

[@ChauncyTalon]

Josh Wong is a monster. I remember asking him were you guys related. 😂🤣😂

[@SamuraiLJacks0n]

Damn that Tampa Bison footage makes me wonder how he has been. That dude was a beast

[@chimpmasterflex]

Tampa Bison vs Sabin in sf4 (final round I'm pretty sure?) was a hidden classic.

[@raunchyavocato]

he OD

[@INikeAir]

Justin this was a PHENOMENAL video. As a casual it was informative and also just great to hear your commentary on it. I’ve never seen any of these matches

[@combomamba]

I love these videos where it's just him going over some old school stuff blessing us with all these gems of knowledge. Sure I also love the boss rushes and the WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLDs but I could watch these ones over and over again!

[@Felipera_]

Poongko vs Smug was like Saitama vs Boros, Poongko even shed his armor that limits his power level at some point, just to be beaten anyways.

[@PetSonoDog-iq6rq]

9:14 The funny thing about that statement is that Yun was broken on purpose, the devs eventually admitted this after a ton of backlash.

[@rodylermglez]

Normally you always have options. A bad matchup is when you are in a situation so stacked against where you can confidently say: "What options? You are only making me choose between bad, worse and worst!"

[@han3wmanwukong125]

As a long time Honda player from way back in ST days, I learned fast that getting a pocked secondary was a good idea. I've kept that rule ever since, though in CvS2 and KoF that's not really so much of an issue.

[@holyfriedmonkey]

This form of vid I feel was goated. Easy to digest and gets to show some wild stuff match-up wise.

[@HoodWeegee]

Dealing with Arakune with Iron Tager is like if Big Band had to deal with Peacock except Peacock actually had close range pressure.

[@bubblegumxo]

I miss vanilla Arakune, he wasn't Nu levels of broken, but damn was he overturned 😊

[@nemoisnobody]

@@bubblegumxo You mean the one in CT where he didn't have a Curse Gauge to build? That was ridiculous! And fun! Honestly, I can respect someone's opinion if they consider him as strong as Nu. He can create some pretty hopeless situations!

[@bubblegumxo]

@@nemoisnobody yessss and even before then because iirc they nerfed him basically every new entry :(. Curse spam WAS pretty cheap, but now it's a large pill to swallow with the changes

[@seasidedoe8905]

Considering what Triviality can do with Peacock at close range, it might be more like Beowulf vs Peacock or if Big Band had no parry. Point still stands though, it's brutal

[@malacara1335]

​​​@@bubblegumxo You're crazy if you think that arakune was weaker than nu in CT

[@kaimamoonfury1335]

I like these types of vids. Drop knowledge on us sensei

[@shinjoni]

Yea I'm liking this type of variety for sure, its nice to know how some of these players got recognized too.

[@neohayabusa13]

smug's dudley was a true gentleman's punch against that Cheap Seth.

[@cloudstr]

how is there a bad matchup video without the blanka thawk matchup lol

[@Fif5t0014]

John Choi's fireball speed variation, occasional fake fireball with the kick, perfect anti-air spacing is nasty. Made it look more free than Valle did and he was in losers.. lmao

[@lukeross88]

These are perfect examples of why you should always have secondaries in the pocket for situations like this even the character purists should I mean look at Daigo switching to Yun in this you gotta get the win

[@EpsilonKnight2]

I'm surprised you didn't mention Cammy vs OSagat in SF2 as well. It might as well be a 10-0 matchup because of how awful it is for Cammy to even try to move at all. Basically Zodd vs Lex way before that.

[@tonychow4853]

Tagger vs Arakune is considered a desert-torture in the 9th circle of hell.

[@L4K1NG]

funny thing is that its not even tager's worst match up in this game

[@pedrohenrique-db3xd]

​@@L4K1NGwho is then? Now I'm curious.

[@L4K1NG]

@@pedrohenrique-db3xd i'd argue izanami, carl, es and izayoi are worse and i believe Nine is the worst. Litchi and Hazama are also quite awful. Tager is actually a decent character, but half the cast invalidates his archetype

[@nickromano3087]

Nah Tager X Mu 13 in CT is literally impossible to even play. Although Tagar X Mai in CF is close.

[@LaBlueSkuld]

I remember when the new Killer Instinct came out seeing this one Grand Final between Fulgore and Thunder. The entire match was Fulgore backdashing away and spamming super fast projectiles. It was a lot like that Zod vs Lex clip: even the commentators were fed up very quickly into the match.

[@adamkaneshiro]

that smug smokefest using dudley! woo that amps me up watching him go ham!

[@slowmotion171]

I remember watching the Tampa dieminion match, brutal knowing how good Tampa was and how many people he was capable of cooking.

[@JackgarPrime]

Bad matchups were so oppressive back in the day.

[@mangkokwangkok1840]

Wow that's pretty insightful for the fighting-game genre.

[@h.m.5724]

This is the exact reason why from day one SNK introduced the spirit gauge and dodging to avoid fire ball spaming

[@NoEvilEye]

Fireballs are meant to zone There is a different between zoning and spamming. Zoning require perfect timing and spacing. Spamming is just wiggling stick and spamming buttons and move is auto and multiple can exist in one screen. That does not exist in SF since you can only do one FB at a time and cant spam it.

[@mappybc6097]

Magaki exists.

[@KaitouKaiju]

@@mappybc6097He is a boss character though. Kinda like complaining about how strong Akuma is

[@chumbeke6045]

​@@NoEvilEyeHowever, fireballs aren't the only zoning tools. You can even zone with normals. It becomes spamming once throwing fireballs is the only strategy in the match knowing how cheap and annoying it is in certain games and match ups (take for example zoners from NRS games)

[@hooray4totsugeki]

If the Tager/Arakune matchup in CF looks bad to you, imagine what the matchup in CT looks like. Also, that Zod/Bod matchup.

[@devinmacklin6746]

Great breakdown of bad match up gameplay my friend idol and inspiration Justin. Always love watching your streaming and content everytime your on as you continue to grow and build your career keep it up my boy God bless stay safe and healthy love u

[@PinkLemonInc]

For the BB clip, what youre supposed to do is either pick a different character or knock out the Arakune player before they can get on the setup (they deserve it trust)

[@ilkergencel1139]

Nice video ,there r so many bad matchups in fighting games ,you can continue this serie i guess.İ remember one sagat vs zangief should be bad in every sf game.

[@bobby4tw]

Blaz Blue. My favorite beat em up game. All characters style is so distinct from each other. Superb game with BB: continuum shift being my favorite.

[@awatts9597]

Now he got to Fight the obstacle course 😅😅

[@TheVoidofNothing11]

Every game I'm in is a bad match.

[@philliphunter6586]

I havent played a fighting game in many years and considering my age now (lol) I don't think I would be able to keep up now but watching Justin vids really make me want to pick up some newer game and play :) Blaze Blue looks good

[@diegoumejuarez1433]

I loved this type of content

[@individuao]

the ryu honda match up is devastating. I was told a while ago that they were playing on console and Kusumondo was fighting that battle as well, being use to playing on H2H cabs. Honda requires a lot of concentration and excecution in order to make something happen.

[@Komatik_]

Statistically, Ryu-Honda ends up being pretty even, actually. There's a difference between what we feel vs. what the stats end up showing. One guy has been collecting match data from Japanese FT5s, French showmatches and Japanese weekly etc. events, and the data for Honda vs. fireball characters looks like this atm: (Charname (bad/good for Honda)) Ryu (even); Guile (disadvantage); Ken (disadvantage); Chun (very big disadvantage); Sagat (advantage); Dhalsim (advantage); DJ (disadvantage) That's counterintuitive by most understandings, but from watching a bunch of sets, feels more or less right: Honda vs. Ryu looks like a struggle, but in the end the match scores look much more even than you'd think, and you don't register the sort of visceral surprise from Honda winning vs. Ryu that you would if say, FChamp's SF4 Sim would've won against Daigo's Yun in that set. Our subconscious knows something our conscious minds don't. What is it? I think it's that a lot of Honda's old MU ratings are based on how painful it feels to get in, especially when the Ryu's feeling it. Those MU ratings just grossly discount "the opponent fucking died" as Honda's reward because scoring one jumpin feels lucky vs. Ryu needing consistency across multiple low reward interactions to keep Honda out. So we naturally see Ryu winning a lot of those small interactions. But MU ratings are supposed to be agnostic as to how the winning happens, and when we look at scores Honda clearly does win at rates that don't track with the old "gets murdered by fireballs" narrative. What gives? I have a copy of the book Soccernomics. Its intro has a great story in this vein: A soccer team wanted to find out how to take corner kicks so their data department went through footage of like 400 corner kicks from various leagues around the world and tabulated the results. Their results were clear: A so-called inswinger was the play. The data people went to the coach and told him so. The coach's reaction was more or less "wtf are you mad, I have decades of experience and KNOW the outswinger is better." But the data disagreed, yet the coach was certain. How? It's because outswingers created situations where the receiving player intentionally caught the ball and put it in the net. The coach was an old football veteran, and outswingers just created situations that looked like good football. There was an appreciation for the art. Inswingers, by contrast, created ugly, messy situations completely lacking in art, but in that mess someone seemed to manage to put the ball into the goal more often than not. But for the coach, the good football was what stuck in his mind, since he was an appreciator of the art of playing good soccer. To the coach, the inswinger messes just felt like random happenstance. Zoner vs. Honda MUs are rated in that way, I think, in that the difficulty of Honda getting in and the seeming hopelessness of a good zoner round get weighed a lot, but Honda getting in and the zoner just fucking dying just feels like a fluke and as a result it doesn't get weighted properly even though the rounds and games keep trickling in. People just intuitively discount Honda getting in as scoring a lucky break and don't factor it in. And the thing is, it often *is* a lucky break. But pretty often Honda's reward is just "the opponent died", and that matters. His buttons are also long and high damage, so he doesn't actually have to get all that close to score hits, and his damage output means he'll mostly win random trades.

[@dmtmediabrothers]

Sf4 was so lit when it was poppin

[@Manobaru]

0:58 - Nice editing - that butt slam you're referring to, is the only moment cut out from the entire fight, so no, we didn't saw that shoryuken earlier 😂

[@nickfrigillana2645]

They gave Arakune a tracking aerial LOW. Just let those words sink in. The madmen

[@pedrohenrique-db3xd]

In BBCF it's not a low anymore. Thank God.

[@badcp455]

Good Lord that first one. Not surprising that it's SSFIIT.

[@Komatik_]

Not even the worst matchup in the game, and from collected statistics is actually evenish more than horrible. It's just that when a Ryu's feeling it, Honda's not getting in. But a lot of the time, Honda can actually get in with a good call or a mistake from Ryu, and his reward a lot of the time is "Ryu just dies". It feels ugly and lucky, but happens often enough that the match scores across Japanese and French showmatches and Japanese weekly etc. events end up being about even. If you want an awful MU for Honda, it's Chun. With Ryu, if you make good calls, Honda will suffer. With Chun, you can build a pattern where you mostly don't have to make calls and Honda will struggle to get in. And that shows up in the match stats. The actual ST horror story (both players' intuition wise, as well as statistically) is Gief vs. Honda. Hands just invalidates most everything Gief has, and his only grounded tool is... a jab. Against hundred hands. I don't think I need to explain which way the payoffs go in that exchange. Cammy vs. O.Sagat is also dreadful, search for Muneo Nakamura Sagat.

[@mauriciobetimpaesleme8702]

12:57 Thank you Mr. Editor!

[@AeonPrimus]

Oof, that last matchup reminded me of Tatsu vs. Capcom, Zero vs. Alex. Just a nightmare.

[@djpegao]

Any bad matchup i know? _Me vs anyone..._ 😂😂

[@KongsRUs]

Dang, I relate to this so much with my Honda in Super Turbo, 😆

[@Mufflin]

M2k almost jv5ing a bowser with sheik was probs the most brutal thing I've ever seen man.

[@1muvwndr]

Dhalsim vs. Yun was even worse when Yun was first introduced. Yun had a 3f starter target combo into the shoulder special, and it was at -1. Sim's fastest move was 5f. It was IMPOSSIBLE to get out.

[@ClexYoshi]

you telling smug "Listen, Honda is not the answer. Do not play Honda Vs. Shotos, you will pull your flat top out" is ringing in my head as I watch Valle chuckin' plasma

[@RoronoraZoro666]

That Zod match reminds me of Kabal fireball spam in MK9. I double flawless a friend of mine using only projectiles

[@nefariousnilbog]

Love this content.

[@dunsdonjone1537]

that double cross-up even had justing "jesus christ" 1:58

[@Sim0nWiesenthal]

I have always felt a huge disadvantage on Zangief against any character with fireballs.

[@CheeseWedge056]

Bad matchups now are 6/4 at worst, where it used to be anywhere as bad as like 8/2

[@MrKingFunk]

Snake Eyez (Zangief) vs. Xiao Hai (Sagat) FT7 USF4 in Canada was funny as hell, with UltraDavid trying to argue it’s a 5-5 matchup at the start of it

[@faken6252]

Smh, Bison should've just sent his accountant

[@kramareva7446]

This is nice! It will be great if you do one where the player with the bad matchup wins...😀😀 Like the Special EVO ST Tournament where Kusomondo reached the Finals battling a lot of matchups...👌👌

[@sheldoncooper8199]

Goddamn Justin is really a great SF Commentator

[@Egganopolis82]

@Justin if you decide to do this again, there is horrible matchup in SCV with Cerventes vs Zwei, all you have to do is stay at tip range and spam aB and Zwei cannot do anything about it.

[@neilpatpat]

I also wanted to see players winning even if they’re in a bad matchup :3

[@Keno0]

I remember when Daigo used the ultimate yolo strategy to beat Gamerbee Adon. Adon chip damage was insane on USF4.

[@thenextweek2416]

2:01 I felt that geezus christ haha

[@hockey1973]

12:55 Justin's editor took that comment personally 🤣

[@Zachary_Sweis]

Low key I want Justin to pronounce his name "Yustin Vong" for a year to gaslight everyone into thinking they've been pronouncing his name wrong the whole time.

[@phenom504]

14:26 you know shit is about to get real 😂

[@tekkenaddict1]

Anyone remember Magneto vs Haggar in UMVC3? The classic Filipino Champ repulsion and run over and under Haggar everytime he gets somewhat close.

[@sneakytako99]

Love this content coming from Justin

[@KaliDreamer]

@1:58 took the words right outta my mouth. That sequence was nasty 🫣

[@simonthewarrior]

You missed the one where that pro gamer spams projectiles against that one kid online.

[@nemoisnobody]

How about Choi or Chin vs Iori in KOF '95 on the pier stage specifically? It's really the stage that makes the difference in this one as both players start on the dock for the round announcement, then jump into the shallow water on round start. Problem is, Choi and Chin are SO short their feet don't touch the ground when the players are allowed control of their character and Iori's rekka hits from round start leading into a corner-carry infinite! Quite the oversight on the devs end.

[@shaunmcisaac782]

A rare, legit, 10-0 matchup

[@memeslich]

As a zangief player fighting a guile player meant always looking for that flash kick.

[@babynautilus]

"as they should" lmao

[@xoukilong]

I used to love trying to get them dizzy after yuns genei jin. His palm f+hp is 300 on the dizzy meter and it juggles. Or finish off with a command grab so everything after gj reset and does dizzy damage

[@ThePrototype047]

For the Tager match that fireball (spark bolt) is basically your one chance per round to try and win that match through neutral lmao

[@uptowndadeboi7925]

Took his shirt off and got beat perfect😂😂😂

[@YeldellGW]

Well, so much for “Get Good”.

[@leostark7943]

I like to see thjs because i played in arcade when these games came out when inwas a teenager....and the combos i use and tactics are different than people use today....i used tonbe good with everysingle chaara ter againast any other character

[@merc9nine]

I played that whole game not knowing there were supers. I just thought it was saying I was doing well.

[@koffydnf979]

i love DNF Duel because it has actual 8-2 matchups that 8ing has somehow made WORSE with each balance patch. (when the game released Launcher vs Berserker was a 6-4, arguably 7-3 matchup in launcher's favor, even though at the time launcher was a bottom 5 character and berserker was pretty solidly top 5. launcher and berserker are now roughly in the same spot on the tier list.)

[@future62]

We might need a "worst ST matches, RANKED" video

[@creyosbear]

Me still waiting on Justin to get his mic settings done right so I can watch the videos without my ears bleeding :c

[@GeoGyf]

nice Justin, teach the community! However i will say this about Blazblue, the hardest characters to master are usually the strongest & that is a good thing.

[@jpVari]

There's no level of difficulty that justifies a character being op though. I agree with your general sentiment.

[@deathbringer9893]

10:34 justin if you think that is bad look at some tournament matches of bbcs(might be extend dont remember) hazama vs tager there was guard primers(aka guard meter) and haz had alot of good ways to remove said primers and your combo breaker removed some primers so hazama with plus frames galore would guard break over and over and tager only real option was command grab super

[@TheAtb85]

I'd love to also see the opposite: people playing a bad matchup, but finding a way to get in. SnakeEyez Gief vs Bonchan Sagat, Daigo Ryu vs FChamp Dhalsim, etc...

[@monkeymanx6]

Bad matchups exist less and less every day because characters get more and more tools.