THIS "KINGSMOVE" DEBATE ENDS HERE...

[@donaldtrumpj2375]

Georgi's ass is almost on the floor😂😂

[@hardcoregaming6969]

😂😂😂😂

[@supreme_arm6304]

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ

[@michaelcook6483]

Shoulder press also uses a bone lock. Is shoulder press bad now?

[@mariusjacobsen5164]

Floorgi

[@100nakpvp2]

Tf you mean almost. Bros ass touching earths core

[@erix1384]

Pardon the long comment, but I don't understand why people think the kingsmove is so unfair and unbeatable... Nobody in the top 10 has used the kingsmove to achieve their ranking. It is not a great move and is extremely beatable, all you have to do is climb before going to the side. At EvW, kingsmove rounds have overall losing records! I've taken the liberty of counting kingsmove wins and losses per round: MMT vs Genadi: 0-3 MMT vs. Revaz: 1-3 Larrat vs. Kvikvinia: 0-1 MMT vs Ongarbaev: 1-3 MMT vs Lamparelli: 1-1 Larrat vs Saginashvili: 0-4 MMT vs Jablonski: 2-0 Kanai vs Hutchings: 0-3 MMT vs Genadi rematch: 1-2 (Kingsmover) vs (non-Kingsmover): 6-20 So in conclusion, only 6 kingsmove rounds at EvW were won, while 20 were lost! In fact, every kingsmove round win at East vs. West happened because the opponent went directly to the side without climbing center first, which means theoretically you have a 100% chance of beating the kingsmove at EvW if you climb over the hand in the center of the table! People keep pointing out the bone lock, but fail to point out that every round a kingsmove has won is because the opponent loses their hand first. The kingsmove is NOT a winning move by any means, and the only athletes that complain about it are the ones who are too stupid or weak to beat it.

[@triples6670]

the thing is, devon didnt even use king's move at all against genadi, he only using it one time (only round 1) against prudnyk

[@snoutysnouterson]

Speaking sense. I can't stand all these people who think the kings move should be banned

[@lloydwright3661]

I'm not reading all that but if you think Michael didn't gain his position by using King's move you're buggin.

[@lloydwright3661]

@muhlizcoxi the move being beatable is irrelevant as to whether it gives you an unfair advantage or not. It clearly does but it creates a weird situation to try and male more rules against it. People just need to stop gassing themselves pushing against a Brick wall and find another avenue to win.

[@erix1384]

@@triples6670 round 1 he lost against genadi while being pushed off the back in a kingsmove.

[@donaldtrumpj2375]

Those 180 kg guys hanging on their opponents arm is hilarious

[@X42-w6b]

It doesn't work like that he can't apply force more than his arm strength irrelevant of his bodyweight. It's like saying you use your weight in lat pull down. Weight just helps to stay in the ground while pulling something down

[@X42-w6b]

Problem with kingsmove is straight arm, not bodyweight I'm fine with current rule btw

[@Trooson]

@X42-w6b exactly how are people so fooling to think anything else like you really think he s putting 180 kg force through that elbow flexor and shoulder rotator 🤦‍♂

[@OlegOlexiev]

go watch Newton's third law buddy

[@X42-w6b]

​@@Trooson People hating on arm wrestlers without having knowledge

[@venomshot2815]

The difference is them using their muscles when going below the table in a winning position. So they can still get gassed and stretched out, but a kingsmove is the least gassed position in the sport. Dragging out matches and making them look like shit

[@miketurner1908]

This just points out one difference in favor of banning the kings move. It doesn't discredit what he said about being under the table in an offensive position. The argument is the kings move gives an advantage. Not does the kings move give more of an advantage than being under the table in an offensive position.

[@venomshot2815]

@miketurner1908 yes it does. When speaking about armpower to even get to the winning position you need to be significantly stronger than your opponent. But to get to a kingsmove you need a bone lock. Like there's some old man who sometimes wins tournaments while being 5x weaker than everyone else, just due to his bone lock and short arm

[@miketurner1908]

@@venomshot2815 no you can get to winning position by being faster not only stronger. You are still only stuck on the king's move. Anybody can do the king's move going under the table gives an advantage either way.

[@A_Mystery_Man]

@@miketurner1908 I think this is a mistake that people have when they feel someone blow through them. They think "oh he was just faster" and save their ego.

[@miketurner1908]

@@A_Mystery_Man no that's why there is a ready go. Reaction time is speed, if you have a bad reaction time you will get pinned or put to the losing side of the table every time.

[@ArmoredG]

the current rules are fine, there is no need to change the rules. The kingsmove isnt unbeatable, and a full side pressure until going under the table isnt unbeatable either.

[@michaelcook6483]

Shoulder press also uses a bone lock. Is shoulder press bad now?

[@ArmoredG]

@michaelcook6483 regardless flop/shoulder press. They rely heavily on someone's shoulder commitment, to make it fair shoulder shouldnt go pass the center line. And hook counters it anyway, so it is not unbeatable. Again i dont think anything should be changed

[@app6984]

@@michaelcook6483 You can pull someone out of it at the start. Its only a bone lock if you are strong enough to actually get to that position. Kings move can be deployed from a losing position not a winning one.

[@michaelcook6483]

@app6984 press only works in winning position. Kings move only works in losing position. Press uses closed elbow bonelock. Kings move uses open elbow bonelock. .......They are equal and opposite.

[@Mitesh-dz9oc]

5:05 wtf

[@denda2643]

XD The ref got two good hits on him.

[@steve286]

Ref landed some hard punches there😂

[@aicovers100]

never mess with a referee

[@monote43]

and i thought i couldnt see someone more insane that matt mask lol

[@aicovers100]

@@monote43 wagner has destroyed a table live on evw

[@MarkSciguerra]

MY MAN! I agree. Let the Kings Movers be!!! When the toproll first came out, a lot of people hated it and said it wasn’t armwrestling! The sport is evolving. Evolve with it or be left behind (like John Brzenk!).

[@genji4456]

toproll is way different than kingsmove cuz in top roll case you literally armwrestling in centra of the table with smart technica and trying to open your opponent fingers by your pronation strength and not putting your self in dangerous positions and makes the match boring and not entertaining cuz if both hit the kingsmove the match will stop and it will be more like “body wrestling “ then armwrestling im sure most of people agree that kingsmove is annoying and should be banned

[@HafizShivji786]

​@@genji4456it's like saying lets ban the top roll in advance position when the shoulder goes below the table?

[@MarkSciguerra]

@@genji4456 I respect your opinion brother…but you didn’t understand my post.

[@eddie0Fll]

@@HafizShivji786 if you're in offensive and you're under the table, you're still relying completely on bicep and elbow flexor strength. If you're in losing position under the table, you're relying much more on joint resistance (ligaments, tendons, bones). Completely different scenarios.

[@eddie0Fll]

@@MarkSciguerra you know what we should do? Get back to sitted armwrestling. When Richard Lupkes was dominating everybody why pure and insane sidepressure. We won't have any problem of guys crawling under the table or lean back. It will be all sidepressure.

[@dfg12382]

Why are we having this conversation? Is MMT #1 in the world right now? The sport isn't beind dominated by the kings move at all right now.

[@yuleassagai1684]

No, but he's closing in. Question is, should he be?

[@dfg12382]

@@yuleassagai1684 Absolute non-sense. He is closing in because of what? His win over Genadi? Then rather ban his press, that did way more for him.

[@michaelcook6483]

Shoulder press also uses a bone lock. Is shoulder press bad now?

[@decarthes]

@@michaelcook6483 No, because wrist being in bone lock position doesn't prevent the arm from getting pinned. Of course you knew this already.

[@michaelcook6483]

@@decarthes I never said flop press, just regular press. In both types of presses, the ELBOW bonelocks in a closed position. And 100% uses a bonelock to prevent arm from being pinned. If you dont use the bonelock in your elbow to press, you arent producing as much force as you could.

[@lukasdvorak3059]

Defensive flop press - how Ermes did against Levan - is a bone lock too. Still Levan won. But, for some misterious reason, people think that Ermes didn't any bone lock.

[@A_Mystery_Man]

Defensive flop press is clotheslining the arm, which is more powerful than the wrist. The King's Move clotheslines the wrist with a bonelock which is insane.

[@billtitus3892]

Did you see how far Levans shoulder was below the table too?

[@A_Mystery_Man]

@@billtitus3892 It doesn't matter. Ermes was almost able to pin him even pulling Levan out of that position. The key is that in a defensive position under the table, you have no more rope to give. In an offensive position, you do.

[@michaelcook6483]

Shoulder press also uses a bone lock. Is shoulder press bad now?

[@A_Mystery_Man]

@@michaelcook6483 It's not the same because you can take the presser's pronation a lot easier than you can a King's Mover.

[@SDSen]

There was no debate to be had, its legal and fine within the rules set, no further debate is needed

[@michaelcook6483]

Shoulder press also uses a bone lock. Is shoulder press bad now?

[@rleriche5044]

The debate is whether it should be in the rule set.

[@SDSen]

@@rleriche5044 East v West KOTT have established the perfect ruleset for it, and everyone is doing great in that, there's nothing else to be discussed about it that hasnt been since the last 5 years, it died a natural death for some time then again the same stupid talk is surfacing again

[@antiVeganism-pf3on]

​@@SDSenWrong. It's gar from perfect. And it will change.

[@rleriche5044]

@@SDSen Both Ray and Janis disagree.

[@flavion1259]

At this point we go back to putting the chairs at the table as we used to do once upon a time.

[@ccbgaming6994]

Lupkes the new goat

[@phothewin6019]

The only people who call the kingsmove unfair are those who aren't good enough to beat the kingsmove. Nor do they know how to actually do the kingsmove right.

[@sergejmaher144]

Woow, coming from a cartoon loving weakling like yourself , thats hilarious

[@michaelcook6483]

Shoulder press also uses a bone lock. Is shoulder press bad now?

[@Bingo264]

Well said 👌

[@mr.w5134]

Right!

[@sergejmaher144]

@@phothewin6019 that funny, coming from a cartoon loving weakling 😂😂 you would get destroyed by any farmer in my vacinity, and u can kingmove all u want

[@aintEvanescence]

Hear me out guys. KingsMove should be allowed but it should be renamed to ClownMove or DesperateMove. 👍

[@michaelcook6483]

Shoulder press also uses a bone lock. Is shoulder press bad now?

[@michaelcook6483]

Flop press is just as desperate

[@mrfrupo]

@@michaelcook6483 exactly. You give up your hand entirely because you know you don't have a strong enough hand. Give up your hand completely and flop on the table.

[@samratbhogle7513]

Kings Move is basically a move done out of desperation whether in losing or winning position. And this is what makes the user lose respect even in case of a win. However if the opponent is able to beat the King's move, then the user will likely lose his soul for a brief period.

[@mrfrupo]

Flop press is a move done out of desperation. You have said "Nope, I have 0 hand control so I might as well just give it up and flop down on the table".

[@brian1335]

If your arm is fully stretched out as in over 160 degrees. It should count as a loss. Genadi was robbed against MMT. Genadis wrist was literally touching the table. He couldn't press further to pin MMT.

[@rrizo6846]

not only is his arm fully extended he also opens his hand stretched out to make it even more impossible to pin...people are stupid trying to support this shit... Devon is just 100% cheater so his opinion worth shit...it's a way to cheat and win

[@WaspMedia3D]

It was Genadi's insane flop and low hand position that robbed him of that pin. Rules are rules.

[@mrfrupo]

Genadi had 0 hand control and climbed 0 onto mmt fingers that lost him the match.

[@MrPainterbob]

literally touching the table are you absolutely sure about that?

[@johnblack9473]

Levan was just getting some extra oxygen under the table but 🤷‍♂️

[@X42-w6b]

1:45 Your arm can't be straight when you're in offense lol. It's not hard to understand. Unfair advantage is bone lock, not just going under table

[@eddie0Fll]

Exactly...

[@friedboys5907]

@@eddie0Fll no

[@esbenskovrasmussen9066]

Just wait until someone Flip there legs in the air and have the head under the table to have a straight arm in the offensive position. Yea its clearly because you are still using mussels. And even with that if no shoulder were allowed to go under at the end then it would only be possible to finish with inside movement mainly press that would be tarible for the sport.

[@friedboys5907]

the point its not about bone lock its about advantage , in defence you have advantage if you go below the table and in offence you got advantage if you just drop your load of weight on the other person's hand . Try to be fair and love the sport and grow stronger . No excuses should be made in the first place. Dont make it a double standard , dont fight like women over an argument becouse you like this and you dont like that.

[@snoutysnouterson]

The bone lock argument is nonsense, your elbow can withstand hardly any force once its at lockout.

[@TNM001]

ok i will bite: you can hang on your arm in an offensive position and its not a straight arm. it takes effort to do so, thats why AWer have no problem with it. its NOT a resting position. look at all the times when AWer hang there but can't finish, tire out and the opponent pulls them back. easy to understand. contrary to that is an extended arm in a defensive position which is a resting position if done correctly. you can stay there for a long time and will tire out slower than your opponent who is trying to surge through. thats the difference, and its a major one.

[@ARMWRESTLINGNEWZ]

But unfair advantage in both

[@jameswebb3410]

I don't know about the defensive position, but there's absolutely nothing unfair about dipping low in the offensive position. You're not just hanging on your arm as it would get opened up if the muscle power wasn't enough.

[@miketurner1908]

​@@jameswebb3410you are using your body weight at that point not arm strength. Same argument as in the defensive position. Using something other than arm strength.

[@jameswebb3410]

@@miketurner1908 You aren't using bodyweight in neither situation. As low as you may dip in the offensive, you're arm will open up if it can't handle the force applied. There's no bodyweight involved, even more so when kings moving, only muscle and bone-tendon integrity

[@miketurner1908]

@jameswebb3410 your not using body weight when you go under the table in winning position? Lol what are you talking about you believe your muscles defy gravity? So static pull ups is not a body weight exercise I guess? Going under the table in a winning position or losing position gives you an advantage by using body weight.

[@tonyb8434]

Someone tried arguing with me saying that mmt’s kingsmove was not a bone lock. A blind man could see that it is.

[@MainMyth]

Agree 100%

[@erix1384]

I hate to tell you this man, but most moves in armwrestling rely on some type of bone lock whether it is in the shoulder joint, elbow, or wrist.

[@MainMyth]

@@erix1384 damn you are the guy he was talking about, BLIND BLINDDD!!

[@tagsan3834]

It's not a bonelock

[@MainMyth]

@@tagsan3834 BLIND!!!

[@mikelegros2467]

I remember when Pradeep used to give us arm wrestling news. Now he gives us a non arm wrestler's opinion.

[@harvey_weenstain8857]

Ahaha

[@Human-Centipedes]

*Well the news is about King's move fuss, so it's been provided to the followers.....*

[@ccbgaming6994]

Most news have their own opinions

[@michaelcook6483]

Yeah, his larratt hate and eastern bias is getting really bad

[@michaelcook6483]

​@@Human-CentipedesShoulder press also uses a bone lock. Is shoulder press bad now?

[@Henry_Nehring]

And levan going under the table to pin Ermes

[@pepomega]

IF devon or michael todd arent competing in the match, its OK... XD

[@X42-w6b]

In offense it's no problem But Denis going under table to not get pinned by Dave could be problem. But his shoulder is not going under table, so it's okay

[@ccbgaming6994]

@X42-w6b With the current rule neither is Devon nor MMT as well. No point in having this debate anymore

[@HandelandJ]

7:57 IFA’s rules do NOT make things better for Kings movers. With this rule, people WITHOUT bone locks can get fouls where they otherwise wouldn’t, hence making it worse for kings movers. And people WITH bone locks would be unaffected by this rule one way or the other.

[@lanatsif]

Such a good video though thanks for that Pradeep

[@AlvaroLand]

I don't see any difference between the bone lock of a kingsmove and a press. When you press, you can let your forearm hit against your humerus. In both cases, you are helped by your bones but you will lose when the muscle is not strong enough, as we have seen many times, because you can't just rely only on bones.

[@A_Mystery_Man]

You will lose when you get supinated in a press. When you get supinated in a King's Move, you can just lay your arm on its side rather than be on the tip of your elbow and your hand looks like it's in neutral position while being fully supinated.

[@lanatsif]

1:05 that ref wants to laugh i swear 😂

[@Offripproductions]

If your arm is strait you lost. There is no further that you can go. As far as on the winning side of the table, you don’t have to be top rolling to drop below, you can do it in a hook as well. Your bicep, is still heavily engaged while pinning even if your shoulder drops below. When your opponent arm goes strait and you have to continue to pull against it while they are not using bicep, and just laying there waiting for the other person to wear.

[@plotrecapped6819]

Out of curiosity, this bone lock argument doesn’t make a lot of sense, it’s like non Armwrestlers saying u r using bone lock of ur wrist

[@Bingo264]

👌

[@Nanamin69]

It's always the guys that are breakdancing under the table when losing middle of the table (aka MMT and Devon LarRATt) complaining about rules, never the guys that just square up and test their strength lmao. Always the sore losers. You can clearly see that Devon's TWO losses to Levan don't sit in his head well and Levan is still living in his head rent free to the point that the guy is looking for every bit of leverage to win in the future not via his own strength, but through cheating lmfao.

[@mrfrupo]

It's literally everyone except these guys complaining about rules right now............... They want to keep the rules as is and everyone else complaining. Wth you even talking about?

[@vlastermaster]

@@mrfrupo the only "athletes" defending this lameazz biitch's move so desperately are these two weaklings clowns

[@G-I-JEZUS]

They do not rest on bone, look at angle of the elbow. the flex changes angle, it forces opponent into a bit of a flop which can be easily held in kings position.

[@crazyasieverwas]

Todd used to be the worse but I swear Devin Gomer Pyle larratt is pathetic the way he “ goes down” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@donnieanderson8281]

Janis was saying that there's no question that the community agrees that shoulder below the table in a winning position or offensive position is acceptable.

[@bobbobby8250]

If your arm doesn't fully extend because of extreme anatomical adaptation, using a elbow bone lock with shoulder below the table doesn't rely on strength, it uses the arm structure to gas your opponent. Keep it illegal

[@Christian35100]

So remove flop wrist press because you use a bone lock in your wrist. Sounds stupid huh?

[@mence5992]

​@@Christian35100 First of all a flop Press gives away a possibile advantage (the Cup) while King's move generate annadvantage(extra pronation because of the structure). Second thing youncan disalign a flop presser with enough side or back pressure and by doing so you neutralize him completely. While against a King's mover with a bone lock you either break something or you can't PIN him. The Same thing would be someone with a wrist that can't get flopped. So a bone lock that create an unfloppable wrist and therefore a constant Cup.

[@wonderable9091]

Ur bones without actual strength from muscles and tendons cannot function at all , try bending back the elbow of a skeleton see how that turns out spoiler ez break it's not about bone lock

[@OlegOlexiev]

@@Christian35100 wtf wrist bonelock is? 999/1000 wrists go back to 90 degrees angle or so, its normal human anatomy if it goes further its kinda an anamoly. 999/1000 people can extend their arms to 180 degrees angle or even more.

[@erix1384]

@@mence5992 Climb over the hand. People only lose to kingsmove because of hand weakness, not arm weakness. Try doing a straignt arm bone lock kingsmove with no pronation, you will get pinned, just like MMT vs Genadi a couple years back.

[@powiUNDERSCORE]

A sport can only gain real popularity if its awesome to watch. My opinion is that these extreme kingsmove cases are very lame to watch. I'm just thinking "what is this bullshit? its so lame"... I suppose I'm not the only one thinking this. It is the same with the insane arch in benchpressing, some women especially only had to move the bar 1-2cm. It is so insanely lame, who wants to watch that? how is that a representation of power? So armwresting is in a position where it needs to decide if they want to keep all these strange bs techniques in the sport, or if they want to strive for mass popularity, because i'm telling you, when a newcomer sees an elite armwresting match, and the guys are under the table with straight arms, he will think "what the f* is this? I won't ever watch this bullshit again".

[@Pernicion]

You're the guy who thinks he's a football fan, but doesn't like defensive, low-scoring games.

[@Azazel_Woodwind]

thank you, i commented the same before seeing this. only logical take here

[@Azazel_Woodwind]

@@Pernicion nah youre just too shortsighted

[@michaelcook6483]

Shoulder press also uses a bone lock. Is shoulder press bad now?

[@michaelcook6483]

For me, shoulder presses are lame to watch. Can i outlaw shoulder presses please?? Lol

[@ArmoredG]

Going full side pressure is NOT a kingsmove.

[@flavion1259]

In the king's move, the rule of the humerus that must be parallel to the board is correct, but an equally correct rule would be to keep the elbow firmly on the pad and not twist by pronating the whole arm (hand, forearm, arm, shoulder) bringing the elbow crosswise on the pad. Pronating in that way creates a real joint block, try to see if you can open the arm in that position, it is impossible without breaking it. This is why whoever performs that move puts up a wall in that instant, a wall that can only be knocked down by forcing the opponent to get up due to the pain he suffers in the bone joint.

[@misterprinc3858]

in offense if your arm is opened and your shoulder is under the table its a terrble disanvantage for an armwrestler only big guys like tsvetkov or levan can maybe use it in their favor because they are 170kg but they cant do otherwhise anyways because of how big they are

[@sumibaruahnath4200]

Nice job brother ,❤really informative

[@f4llenhite955]

georgi and levan use their arm and latt strenght to pin opponents mmt and devon rely on their bones not dislocating and pronation to avoid being pinned

[@dfitdevil]

I am addicted to arm wrestling news videos❤ please bring more videos frequently 💪🏻💪🏻

[@MuhammadRehanFitness]

Exactly 💯, if kings move was unbeatable then Michael would have won against genadi the first time also. This time Michael won not because of kings move, but because he was much stronger than before.

[@sergejmaher144]

Have u actually watched the match bud? 😂😂 Thats the clearest bone lock/tendon lock u will ever see. No power in holding that press

[@mrjzz2703]

Todd won 2 pin by press, if Genadi is strong, he could've block that press​@@sergejmaher144

[@jasonslovak4766]

Another muslim talking trash, go Watch the match fanboy..

[@jasonslovak4766]

@@sergejmaher144he is just a kid, just talking bs

[@michaelcook6483]

​@@sergejmaher144Shoulder press also uses a bone lock. Is shoulder press bad now?

[@donnieanderson8281]

I think the language barrier has you confused on a lot of stuff and the language barrier also makes it very difficult for you to understand exactly what people are saying. I can't even follow what you're saying it's all over the place.

[@antiVeganism-pf3on]

Give examples or shut up.

[@ericdesrey7881]

The dangerous position rule is the only one that is legit.All the Bs around bone lock or not, fair/unfair is irrelevant.But it makes videos and views >

[@americanmade175]

A few of them trying to protect Ermes from Michael, a bunch of cry babies

[@youtubeyo142]

Protect ermes from Michael ?? Lmfao ok

[@harvey_weenstain8857]

Lolol

[@mathieutrenbolonesandwich2397]

If people are too stupid to regrip & climb OR move forward & supinate the kingsmover's hand , then they deserve to lose.

[@Bingo264]

Well said 👌

[@cgemount]

Everything s clear. 👍

[@skipsch]

When I think of armwrestling I think of two people at a bar going at it, and in that scenario I can't imagine either one would pull that move without someone saying hey that's cheating

[@loganlandis5935]

Ok? This is professional arm wrestling. So people that don't know a sport should determine the rules of a pro sport?

[@loganlandis5935]

When i picture basketball i picture 2, 5' tall guys that don't know how to play at a picnic. Third guy comes along and can dunk the ball, they consider that cheating so I think dunking should be illegal in pro basketball. That's basically what you just said.

[@traditionalisttolkienist]

Noobs always say going under the table while pinning with a top roll is cheating, 'He's using body weight!' Sometimes they even say bending your wrist in any way is cheating.

[@Bingo264]

You definitly do not know what is professional armwrestling. The armwrestling that you are talking about is the armwrestling that brokes arms 😀.

[@skipsch]

Please notice how I did not personally say I believe it counts as cheating. Im' more or less just agreeing with the content of this video and I gave one perspective

[@kennyk5150]

Pretty clear, it isn't an NA armwrestler, so they don't care.

[@A_Mystery_Man]

You can still open the arm when someone is in the offensive position against you though. This argument is the same as when noobs say "why are you using your bodyweight? It's cheating!"

[@LUCASDBD]

If u have stronger hand than your oponent and take his wrist or hand his kings move doesn't matter u can beat it.Simple as that. Why people are complicating it so much i dont understand

[@LarryReynolds591]

End range of which joint? Why does the king's mover still have hand control? Oh yeah, because their WRIST isn't at the end range. If being at the end range of motion is so bad, why do we allow the flop wrist press? Isn't that a "bone lock" at the wrist?

[@rainblue8005]

MMT's arm cannot extend more than it was on genadi match. Well, maybe it can if you use hydraulic press.

[@Aleksi723]

Lets hope MMT beats levan so we can go back to this topic. LEts all pray jesus.

[@CyrillicTM]

you can still get opened when you go below the table in an offensive position. how blind are you?

[@OldMoldyScroty-b7v]

The actual argument is really "our favorite guy lost, so let's change the rules rabblerabblerabblerabble!". Bunch of crybabies really.

[@A_Mystery_Man]

I didn't like Michael Todd beating Devon Larratt, and then I didn't like how Devon beat Dave Chaffee at WAL and didn't consider it a legitimate win, so I remained consistent. More recently Devon beat Dave without being under the table though and that's when he was legitimately stronger.

[@OldMoldyScroty-b7v]

@@A_Mystery_Man I hear you, but I'm curious, what's your opinion on MMT's win over Genadi?

[@A_Mystery_Man]

@@OldMoldyScroty-b7v I will say, I'm torn about current Michael Todd. On the one hand I still kinda consider the straight arm cheating. It's not just the arm being straight. It's the fact that it can't be rotated any further as well. People like Devon say "just beat their pronation" but you can't because they're sitting on the end range of their pronation on the side of their elbow. The reason I'm torn is I'm just curious if it's enough to beat Levan. I want to see Michael beat Ermes so he can get to Levan, and we will see how an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

[@OldMoldyScroty-b7v]

@@A_Mystery_Man Thanks for engaging in a civil way, friend. I don't agree with you entirely, but that's neither here nor there. The Levan match I think can only go one way, and that's Levan winning 6-0, but yes, it would still be interesting to see how a MMT vs. Levan match goes.

[@A_Mystery_Man]

@@OldMoldyScroty-b7v If MMT stops Levan, will you start to think about how it might be an overpowered move? haha

[@100nakpvp2]

I actually found wal michael todd matches to be the most entertaining out of all arm wrestling matches ever.

[@eijnebromero9921]

You have a point, though the normal end range of motion in the elbow is between 0 to 10 degrees (fully straight) , but because devon and the other kings move practitioners may have significant reduction in elbow extension range, it might indicate an underlying medical condition (adhesions on the tendon) or injury, it is likely that a slight bent elbow are their end range. Still needs to be investigated further through recent videos or matches to see if they are telling the truth

[@Human-Centipedes]

*Pradeep's voice got lean again....*

[@duhhuhduh]

I agree with you completely on the below the table in the offensive position. Defense and offense should either both have shoulder advantage or they both shouldn't.

[@TheSmashEm.]

Have a quick recovery pradeep❤

[@daviddeline1174]

Can you do the hall about how tall the table is. And why it is made for people 6’ tall. And making table height fair for short people

[@mence5992]

You lose Power in the winning position, even by going under the table you are not as strong as at center table.

[@lloydwright3661]

Yes it is beatable but the normal lanes to victory being reduced IS unfair, this said there's nothing you can do about it within the ruleset so people just need to use their brains and stop gassing themselves pushing against a brick wall.

[@Azazel_Woodwind]

But here's the problem: NO ONE likes the kings move. Imagine showing someone armwrestling for the first time, and they see michael todd under the table arms extended? They would NOT call it armwrestling or like it. It is beneficial for the puller, but NOT for the viewer. Arm wrestling as a sport can only grow if people enjoy watching it, but NO ONE likes to watch two men under the table arms nearly straight and call it an "arm wrestle". Personally, I think the rules should be changed to BAN the kings move, simply because its not fun to watch, and it will make the sport much more money.

[@Bingo264]

People do not like seeing People under the table because they don't know what armwrestling is.... They think that is his a full side pressure thing that you do when you are drunk at the bar. A bunch of ignorant clown.

[@Azazel_Woodwind]

@@Bingo264 yes youre right, but should someone need to know a sport deeply to enjoy watching it? side pressure is objectively MORE entertaining to watch than kings move. take football for example. "use your feet to get the ball in the net". VERY simple and entertaining, easy to watch. if we want someone to have to learn so much about the sport to enjoy it, you cant complain if armwrestling does not grow much as a sport...

[@mrfrupo]

I don't mind the kings move. You know what would be boring? Every matching looking the exact same. Bring out the chairs and hook all day long. Boring.

[@nicolao.dos.santos]

I am relatively new to the sport, and I'd rather have a full arsenal of technique. Saying NO ONE likes the move is factually wrong. If you don't like it, that is totally cool, but the statement is not true at all. I like it and I also like hook wars, presses and the lot. More than 1 lane makes it more intersting in my book in any sport

[@nicolao.dos.santos]

@@mrfrupo exactly!

[@hanzalaumar40]

Yeah that was what I wanted to listen from you! A mature analysis ❤

[@michaeltrumph121]

Not mature, just dumb

[@hs3204]

Good questions and arguments!! Pradeep have u ever tried asking chatgpt these questions?? U might get surprised!!

[@Sladeford]

Its not bone lock it's the neglected training of the tricep and bicep focused training...just muscle imbalance!

[@RussianMobsta]

Right. What if we forbid going below table for everybody, offensive and defensive

[@meshi728]

4:50 it could not be end range of his arm, just look how he's arm is bend to the middle, it's not straight arm like with curls for biceps. 5:46 it's not bone lock, it's something like tendon/muscle lock actually. 6:22/6:50 there is example of bone lock, arm is in position like bicep curls. We even can see 0 effort from Michael doing this, just holding.

[@eddie0Fll]

Bs opinion at the end of the video, just like when you said that Levan couldn't be able to hook Jerry😅😅😅🤭🤭🤣 Engin, pls, just roast this guy.

[@oltharantoniopulvirenti5910]

Love that somebody has my same exact opinion, humerus below the table is a rule to basically discourage kings making it a valid option only for people with limited range of motion

[@WishAAAProductions]

6:23 yes, but that was because of the pad size in WAL. It’s changes now so you can’t abuse it like that anywhere anymore, so not really a valid point.

[@lichking2067]

Everyone is talking about kings move but none talks about Kamil starting already in shoulder press

[@timoweber4097]

There is a big difference between dropping your shoulder in winning position and straight arm in loosing position. If you are able to get on the A-side and your shoulder drops you earned that position through better center control. If you lay on your bone in loosing position to tire out your opponent due to your structure it is a big difference. I am not saying that the straight arm thing should be illegal but to compare that is senseless

[@grantholbrook9559]

Does vitally have it?

[@juliannewman8720]

I 100% agree.. it makes absolutely no sense to allow shoulder below the table in winning position and not have it in losing position. Both gives you an advantage. It’s unfair

[@kirkvj8330]

As long the shoulders above the table in a losing position.. kingsmove its fine imo

[@thekraken4265]

remember guys its only "under the table" on the losing side of the table not the winning side 😂crazy how this rule doesn't apply to both sides, you make a solid point. In my opinion there's a greater advantage gained with a declined humerus angle on the winning side, like the georgi vs jerry clip you showed.

[@billtitus3892]

The bigger problem is the shoulder going under the table in both losing and winning...which Levan is constantly dropping his shoulder way under the table which is deff unfair, and if your in a losing position, once the shoulder drops below then call a foul.

[@fk9277]

That usain bolt analogy was a strawman. To properly equivocate, usain bolt would also be allowed a 2 m head start if he choose to take it. Because other arm wrestlers besides devon and michael can choose to use the kingsmove if they want. Before claiming an unfair advantage, you need to do a calculation on how unfair it is to determine if it is actually unfair. The bench press, swimming suits, running shoes with spring, they all clearly showed advantage and took away too much of the human part of the achievements in these sports. So quantify how unfair the kingsmove is, and then have thos discussion

[@MyThelema]

You just made another terrible strawman. "anyone can choose to use the kingsmove if they want" - the whole point of discussion isn't wether people can use it or not, it's the fact that when your arm doesn't straighten it's massively advantageous. Not everyone has an arm that doesn't straighten, therefore anyone can not just "choose to use the kingsmove" effectively.

[@fk9277]

@MyThelema yes they can because anyone can have an arm that doesn't straighten

[@MyThelema]

@@fk9277 🤣🤣

[@fk9277]

@@MyThelema It's true. you just have to fuc your tendons sufficiently and bam, your arms can't normal ROM. I don't see the issue. Anyone can join this club if they want.

[@Mustangcrowd]

I agree, if the shoulder below the table is ok in the winning position, it should be ok in the losing position.

[@dcgaming6898]

you said the only reason michael beat devon in 2018 was kings move. But one key element here is you were allowed to go below the table back then. So yes the kings move was broken back then, but not being able to go below the table has made the kings move beatable every time if you're strong and smart enough to beat it.

[@honestaussie5064]

I'm a casual armwrestling fan, I always thought it was ridiculous that different promotions have different rules. You make a perfectly valid point about the kings move in the offensive position. The inconsistent rules and having no video replay to challenge and over rule bad refereeing kind of makes the sport a bit lame.

[@faith3702]

Ongarbaev beat MT, so did genadi the first time.. Maybe other arm wrestlers are not smart enough to know how to beat a kingsmove

[@ivanhomer6950]

Maybe a test before a fight is a good idea. Please put your elbow on the pad, straight you arm ,let your humerus straight with the table that we can see where your end of motion. When he can't touch the pin pad with straight arm then he will get bonelock foul in paralel position during fight. In this case his bonelock advantage will be covered by rules. If he will go paralel in fight he will get automatically foul.

[@Deepzombie]

If we do not like this technique, raise the pin pad?

[@jcastro1841]

The only person near the top that has an actual bone lock that they use in the kings move is MMT. They've already compromised the rules to where you can't drop your shoulder below the table in the losing position. It's fine the way it is currently. Climb, and get the pin. If you can't do that, you need to get stronger. I'm not a fan of the way MMT arm wrestles, but it is what it is.

[@justaguyfromreddit]

justin bishop's take solves the situation

[@osba70]

The rule " not to cross the shoulder under the pad" is basically allowing KM only for those who ruined their elbows.!

[@tiergeist2639]

i think absolutely the same. it is unfair. why is it allowed in the atk move? i always found that stupid

[@therealkosmora229]

The only real question to be asked is if people are only winning strictly on their bonelock, why is the opponent losing his wrist? That's the question

[@A_Mystery_Man]

Actually, if we go with the argument that the King's Mover is the same as an open toproller, it is indeed a move that forces everyone to become a hand climbing toproller rather than a power hook puller.

[@user-wl2md5kz7k]

It seems like a lot of people didn’t like what Giannis was saying about the kings move

[@smg7187]

At 2:27 if that was a win for giorgi how the heck could you say his elbow is still on the pad😮

[@DMan93]

Its about pinning, not stretching biceps… period.

[@MonsterHunterPV]

Its a 100%legal move that actually stat wise doesnt have that many wins unless used by a very skilled AW. Quit hating on it and learn to beat it.

[@harvey_weenstain8857]

Michael Todd vs Genadi 😂

[@jeaglejj]

Exactly and Levan does it when he needs to, you chose the perfect video to show, top rolling ermes while under the table but everyone kisses his ass

[@YkhoaeiKonyak]

People thought kings moves is easy and complaining about it. They don't know how difficult is to pornat and applied in the table

[@jacobisaiballadareszelaya1984]

I did the example of the flop press. Really valid points here in this video.

[@daviddavids3468]

WHEN ARM WRESTLING AT THE RABLE GUYS SHOULD BE DISQUALIFIED FOR GOUNG UNDER THE TABLE WHETHER ITS DEFENSIVE, NEUTRAL OR OFFENSIVE POSITION. HOW ABOUT YOUR PECS OR CHEST MUST SAY ABOVE TABLE ?

[@smg7187]

At 4:25 that is a clinical technical display from a goat legend of the sport

[@printe111]

I think offensive side going under the table is not ok too. And i don’t think that Todd and Larratt not being able to straighten their arms is not a bone lock. It is to much tension and a shortening in the facia and muscle from years of flexing the muscle for a long time like you do in armwrestling.