This might be the end of WordPress

[@СергейМизин-л3ъ]

Now I won't be able too sleep until I know if Matt's mom knows the difference between Java and Javascript

[@petethompson3176]

lmao

[@abdullahzafar4401]

😂🤣😅

[@shockwave7094]

🤣🤣🤣

[@chinesesparrows]

Isn't git github?

[@buildwithharshit]

fr

[@CristianKirk]

The end of Wordpress? That's a pretty dishonest title.

[@Poleriwi]

Not surprised. That's what Theo does best

[@espertalhao041]

Theo is, basically, insulting someone for defending their copyright. If someone made "ThingUpload", you would have 10 videos about it.

[@rodrigofernandes6016]

@@espertalhao041 UploadThing is not an open source platform though

[@Greeem]

@@espertalhao041 Brother did you even see the sheer nonsense that was Matt's argument? I'll admit the title is insanely clickbaity but he's not wrong, Matt is actually acting insane. He's singling out a single host company for no reason like a maniac.

[@SimplyMerlin]

@@espertalhao041 aside from the obvious fact that the term 'WP' does not fall under any copyright law ever, it's kinda crazy how you commented this 20 minutes after the video was uploaded. Do you watch videos at 2x speed or do you just comment based on titles?

[@handmadegamesdev]

"Kind of nuts to go die on an entirely different, unrelated hill because you didn't like how things were going" -- 100% this. His interview with Prime didn't help at all, either.

[@willcoder]

I thought wordpress was actually a CVE Engine.

[@FunctionGermany]

worlds leading employer in IT-sec

[@D0Samp]

It's more of a CVE framework for developing your own vulnerabilities as extensions.

[@fatalglory777]

Best burn I’ve heard all week 😂

[@skyhigheagleer6]

It’s insane. Wordpress is still selected by some of the largest digital publishers. No enterprise business is going to select a CMS where the founder can turn off core features on a whim.

[@nustaniel]

He can't, you can self-host. That's what he says they should do while there are legal issues between them.

[@Luxalpa]

@@nustaniel That's like saying you can just build your own NPM eco system if the founder of NodeJS doesn't like your business. It's utter insanity. Way too big of a business risk.

[@nustaniel]

@@Luxalpa It's insane to expect someone to serve someone else for free when they take legal action against them as well. If they're actually a 400+ million dollar a year business, to expect them to be able to invest into self-hosted solutions isn't wild.

[@michaelwillman5342]

​@@nustanielWP Engine took no legal action against the Wordpress Foundation and contributed 2080 hours to Core development in the last year. What exactly is being given "free" here, oh Automattic shill?

[@nustaniel]

@@michaelwillman5342 I think WordPress is lame and for amateurs who can't code, I mean that's a good thing for mom and pop that wants a website for their bakery, but I've always disliked it, so no, not a shill. They sent a cease and desist where they leaked private messages. Aka., legal action. Oh, WP Engine shill? The org from my understanding provides free services, WPE can host it themselves though as it's all open-sourced. That's what I got from these interviews.

[@paulduffy9481]

The thing is Stallman, bless his toe-jam soaked little socks, baked this kind of thing into the GPL. You release under the GPL, people can take what they like, they don't have to give you anything. And if they want to pay someone else to support and improve the software then you gave them that right. The whole thing was a somewhat childish lashing-out at the idea that you couldn't just tell a company to get bent and take the job to someone else for whatever reason. Not the first time Matt's been objectionable. And now he's risking the security of how many sites in his spat?

[@gearboxworks]

Exactly! (And extra bonus points for "Stallman's toe-jam soaked little socks," ewww 😂)

[@sven1979]

This is all coming from Matt, not from the WordPress Community. As far as I know, the community itself is not happy with this situation and was not asked by Matt. He is just doing! This is absolutely toxic to the community. The mere fact that many community members will be unsure about what they can and cannot do in the future (e.g. the use of “WP”) is unsettling.

[@kiwibread101]

Theo's comments on the importance of investment in business really bug me. While I can agree that investment is crucial for many businesses, he implies that the only way to he successful in business is to have a large, publicly traded company. There are over 33 million businesses in the US, and only a few thousand on the stock exchange. Do these not count as businesses?

[@theReal_WKD]

To be fair, he clarified that investments will significantly increase the likelihood of a business success, not that one without won't succeed at all. But yeah, I'm on your side, it bugged me too. And in my opinion, the chef/stove analogy was off as well. Not having investments would be like starting with your house's stove, not no stove at all, instead of a fancy one like in restaurants. But you can still work your way up until buying one of them, without investments.

[@rubengommers]

Yep, same. Especially since he made a point that bootstrapping a company would make you less of an "entrepreneur", which literally means "a person who sets up a business or businesses, taking on financial risks in the hope of profit". To me, being an entrepreneur means solving real issues, finding a value proposition in that and being able to attract customers with that. While I understand that scale is part of what makes you an entrepreneur or not, I've seen many examples of companies that I'd consider successful that didn't take any investments.

[@steffengroenandersen]

​@@theReal_WKD Everybody knows that a VC operates on the fact that 1 massively successful company pays for 9 OK companies and 90 duds. Saying investment increases likelyhood of success seems dishonest even in this context.

[@theReal_WKD]

@@steffengroenandersen 100% correct. To go even further, I can imagine that a lot of the time, it will decrease the likelihood of success. Many businesses taking investments will think they are doing great because of the money. But in reality, they could barely hold without it. Whereas without investments to begin with, you are forced to take better decisions and build an actual business. Because there isn't any money cushin you can rest on despite your poor decisions or products.

[@somerandomlittlechannel7860]

This. There are plenty of success

[@Jarikraider]

*Releases free code* *Gets pissed when people use the free code*

[@Kane0123]

I immediately think about Tim Robbins in Team America. And the corporations, being all corporationy… and then they make money… hmm?

[@Life4YourGames]

Well it is the GPL so theoretically they are supposed to publicise their modifications to the project.

[@wyleong4326]

At least Winamp tells you exactly what you get… a whole lot of code you didn’t ask for and potentially piggybacking on people’s new work. Time will tell… 🎉

[@trumpetbob15]

@@Life4YourGames But isn't that what the WP Engine Support page does? If the argument is that it doesn't meet some "publicity threshold" type of thing, a splitting hairs-style issue that lawyers love, I can at least understand and pass it off as legalese nonsense that normal folks really don't care about. But to claim they aren't publishing the changes? Can't say I agree with that statement.

[@CalifornianViking]

It is a trademark dispute, not an OSS dispute.

[@noel-forte]

20:19 - Confirmation Bias, one of the most dangerous and frustrating psycological behaviors to negotiate. Once someone establishes beliefs it becomes part of their identity and very little evidence will shake them from it, because doing so would challenge who they are as people. Really interesting stuff to learn about, and I commend those who work on trying to quell theirs.

[@StallionTG]

Theo, you are saying that you have to seek out going public and a billion dollar valuation to be considered an entrepreneur? that's unfair.

[@ViniciusMiguel1988]

He has a lot of distorted views living in his silicon valley bubble

[@TangiersIntrigue]

Sadly, Theo is a bit hopped up on neolib juice lol

[@donatoclemente4421]

That's not at all what he said.

[@StallionTG]

@@donatoclemente4421 it's verbatim form the video my dude.

[@bholmesdev]

Taylor better return his Lambo asap

[@dragons_advocate]

I remember over a decade ago when I read Tim Ferris' books, Matt Mullenweg was one of his showcase examples for outstanding productivity. Apparently Matt wrote WordPress while he slept for no more then 2 hours a day! If he picked up this pattern again, then it would be no wonder he's cranky af

[@SanyaZol]

For me WPEngine's branding (website, products page, etc) seem to be specifically made misleading, and EVEN THE NAME seem to be intentionally picked to be perceived as something official. (by the way, I'm not taking sides here as I generally dislike automatic as well (even though I like wordpress) and hate their approach to many things - including the subject)

[@archmad]

wp is not protected. Wtf are you saying? You know how many plugins and services use it?

[@steffengroenandersen]

​@@archmad WP is not protected and no one is arguing that. If you could actually go back in time and look at their communication on their website they did not just use the WP. Their packages were named "Wordpress Core" etc. making it much more opaque. I am not arguing for Matt or WP Engine - just clearing up your confusion.

[@SanyaZol]

@@archmad It's not about "WP", it's about strategic ways of using word "wordpress" on their website to intentionally create confusion and appear as being endorsed/official.

[@nustaniel]

​@@archmad That's not what Sanya said, is it? Look at their site, the way they use the word "WordPress" is obviously 100% done to present themselves as more official than they are. I think WordPress is lame, but I can see how WP Engine is using the brand name WordPress strategically to present themselves a certain way.

[@mar-17905]

@@steffengroenandersenyeah you are right. I started building Wordpress website when I was in highschool in 2009-2013. WPengine has always marketed themselves as the only official Wordpress hosts. Back then I actually thought they were Wordpress. For years they have been unethical and used deceptive marketing. Open source just means they can modify the code. Not présteme to be the platform. Wordpress should gave never let them use their name in that way in the first place. It’s their fault honestly for not managing their community correctly for years. Now WPengine thinks they can get Wordpress to support their customers for free without contributing to the community. They should have set standards from the beginning.

[@SiteStudio]

18 year WordPress user here. WordPress is great, tens of thousands of indie theme and plugin devs make a living building for the ecosystem. Unfortunately, we arguably have the worst BDFL in open source and WordPress is thriving despite his leadership or lack there of. To the tune of almost 1 billion websites.

[@evanc8057]

43% of websites worldwide use WordPress. It's a huge deal.

[@pharmokan]

sir what does BDFL mean

[@petethompson3176]

@@pharmokan Benevolent Dictator For Life

[@alainportant6412]

@@pharmokan SAAAAARR DO NOT REDEEEEM THE CARD

[@evanc8057]

The dude is doing "takebacksies" on one of the largest open source projects in the world.

[@nustaniel]

Not entirely what I am seeing. I think it is about how WP Engine is using the word "WordPress" strategically on their site, presenting themselves as more associated/endorsed/official than they are. It doesn't take a literary genius to see that. While his talk with Primeagen was a mess, if it's true that he has tried to get them to not abuse the trademark "WordPress" for years, I can understand the frustration of that other company refusing to pay the licensing fee for the brand name. He's obviously going about it the entirely wrong way, extremely unprofessionally, but there's probably some truth somewhere in the middle somewhere.

[@entrenadev]

To be honest, Teo will die before than WordPress

[@leonzuendel123]

I had a stroke reading this

[@TebaremCoding]

@@leonzuendel123

[@alanlewis85]

My understanding is that Matt’s complaint is about the misuse of the Wordpress trademark (does not matter if the code is open source). And, as the trademark owner, he gets to make decisions about who can use it and under what conditions (e.g., revisions turned on or off, paying money to the trademark owner, etc).

[@michaelwillman5342]

He should have defended the trademark two decades ago then, I've talked to three trademark attorneys about this and all three believe the trademark isn't even valid now due to the lack of enforcement.

[@alanlewis85]

@@michaelwillman5342 Does anybody you talked to have access to Matt's company records to know if the trademark is being enforced elsewhere? We'll see what happens if or when it goes to court or settles. Until then, we can gossip :)

[@DanielSkovJacobsen-y3g]

I don’t get how Automatic can spend so many hours every month on so little. Compare that to many other projects. Wordpress is the same shit it has always been because of Matt..

[@petethompson3176]

egregious clickbait

[@saggygnaw]

Welcome to the channel

[@user-qp2xq5zz8z]

@@saggygnaw Or KZbin in general lol

[@Thouston]

It's really not, especially given what has come out since... Matt has eviscerated decades of community trust with how he handled this. Companies are ditching WP due to the risks of using something where a dictator can destroy your company on a whim and is willing to do so. As long as Matt is a part of WP, huge numbers of companies will refuse to have anything to do with it...

[@petethompson3176]

@@Thouston lots of fair points and I wouldn’t argue against any of them regarding the damage Matt may have caused with his actions. Two things can be true at once though. Maybe this is the beginning of the end for Wordpress, as Theo posits with his title that I took exception to. It is certainly ugly and bizarre coming from Matt. I never would have argued against that. I was mainly more pointing to theo’s sensationalized title, which didn’t really reflect the nature of the video in my opinion, which was mainly just him ranting for almost an hour. Due to the often blue collar status of Wordpress work for developers, it rubbed me the wrong the way how the title was flippantly mishandled to seemingly deliberately cause panic with a lack of substantive information, all of which to seemingly capitalize on views. I don’t think Theo is wrong in his opinions or that clickbait is some huge illegal offense. It’s not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things. But it annoyed me so I felt the need to label something what it is: egregious clickbait. It’s not coming from a denial of any impact from the situation, which is still unfolding and will be for years in my opinion, given the massive size of the software’s use. I thought and still think it would take much more than this to kill Wordpress overnight. But I wouldn’t argue that perhaps it might not bounce back from this fully. Nor does me criticizing Theo imply that. And nor does any downward trend of Wordpress, perceived or otherwise, from the last two weeks negate something being clickbait.

[@KhizarKhan2001]

I dont think wordpress is going to end

[@math-s]

so many points were missed in this video... edit: you actually interviewed Matt to give him a chance to clarify some points. I respect that. Keep up the good work. 🎉

[@javierflores09]

I got to say, while I agree with the stance here to an extent, I don't think it was quite fair to take all of what Matt is doing as Wordpress's action as a community, and the idea of them asking for money as an open-source project being "insane", we SHOULD strive for companies to invest in OSS if they actively make use of it, not discourage it, but of course there's much better ways to verbalize that than the terrible way Matt does. On a side note, seeing a lot of negativity in the comments of this video huh, wonder in what echo chamber this is being shared in

[@Luxalpa]

This is the strongest discouragement for any company I could imagine. "See, OSS people are unstable and don't appreciate any help." I think many companies will end their investments based on this bullshit. Nobody wants to get bullied or their business ruined because the co-founder from WP doesn't like something about them.

[@michaelwillman5342]

WP Engine contributes over 2000 hours to Wordpress Core development every year, and they still get accused of not contributing.

[@relaxthegamer]

I think better approch would to follow the path of game engine like unreal. In unreal engine if your earning reach more than $1m, you give them 5% royality...

[@Dovenchiko]

I don't know if it was different in the past but as far as I can remember and of 2024 UE boasts after $1M sales, they want 5%. If selling it on steam, you don't have to pay Epic a cent until you've gotten $700k (steam takes 30%). Additionally, Epic waves the 12% they take from their store if your game uses UE, finally taking 5% when you make the $1M sales.

[@relaxthegamer]

@@Dovenchiko oh i see its 1m for ue and $200k for unity, thanks for pointing this out.

[@gearboxworks]

Then WordPress would not be GPL-based open-source, which Matt has lionized his entire career and has attacked other companies in a similar manner because they didn't follow the GPL in the manner he thought they should (rather than take them to court and let the court interpret the GPL, which should have been the appropriate approach since a license is in-fact a legal concept.)

[@Luxalpa]

It doesn't really matter, the important thing is to have rules that are clear. Nobody is going to invest into wordpress if they could get called out like this at any moment for some arbitrary reason.

[@ceplma]

Just a note: WP Foundation is 501(c)3 non-profit organization. It absolutely cannot act protecting commercial interests of any commercial organization. I would like IRS position on this mess.

[@alainportant6412]

Maybe the trademark are owned by a commercial entity, who the fuck knows.

[@PenguinjitsuX]

This clickbait is so stupid. It's not even working for you. Compare this video and your new interview video to Primeagen's video and his interview. He just called it "The WordPress Situation Is Wild" which isn't clickbait, it is pretty wild lol. But it's a generic honest title. And he still got more views than both of your videos combined! Perhaps you need to look back and think whether you should start focuing more on your content instead of your clickbait titles.

[@Drazyhaze]

Amen. Theo is the worst honestly.

[@jongskie777]

thanks for saving me time!. I downvoted aswell other will need to do so.

[@HoNow222]

true. i hate this so much.

[@alainportant6412]

@@jongskie777 eyah right

[@Leto2ndAtreides]

From what little I remember about WP Engine, its selling point was partly that they had engineers as support. If a lot of engineers offer direct support to customers, that would make it a very different kind of company.

[@RezaShaffaf]

Honestly it’s amazing. I run many sites as a solo freelancer and their support has always exceeded my expectations.

[@tsxpneo]

What would it take for you to change your opinion about WordPress?

[@Mooooov0815]

If he can make a clickbait title out of it at some point, he’s gonna say he’s moving back to Wordpress

[@fullstackcrackerjack]

Code quality for one.

[@Thouston]

Matt stepping down is the only way this gets saved... He's shown that he's willing to abuse his power to attack other businesses, he can no longer be trusted with that power. And as long as he has the ability to block users of a service in the WP Ecosystem that he doesn't like with the intention of harming that service's users, or takeover a plugin from the author and lock them out, both of which he has now done, WP can't be trusted...

[@MrManafon]

Sad comments from Theo, not understanding what reciprocity means. Saying that Linux shouldn't get 5% is insane, and we should strive towards a future where it absolutely does get 5%, instead of thinking of excuses and rationalizations for why it is okay that it doesn't, meanwhile we shower OpenAI, Microsoft and Apple with money.

[@PiniiXever]

Why 5% and not 3% or 30%? Who says what number is right and why?

[@gearboxworks]

Reciprocity? I see no reciprocity coming FROM Automattic, I only see reciprocity going TO Automattic. Which, ironically, makes it not reciprocity at all.

[@MrManafon]

@@PiniiXevertrue, I used 5% only because Theo used it when talking about Linux. As for how much you should pay - we already have systems in place for that. How many % do you pay for any piece of your business that you can’t do without? Every company has its own breakdown of it, For example Developers 30%, card payments systems 5%, cloud infra 10%, finance 15% etc. So we should strive for a future where it is as normal to pay for Linux.

[@MrManafon]

@@gearboxworkssure, but my comment had nothing to do with WP, and only focuses on Theo’s sad idea that paying for Linux is somehow not a good idea.

[@gearboxworks]

@@MrManafon - Thanks for the clarification. In general, I am in agreement with you then. That said, I assume you are familiar with the "tragedy of the commons?" If not, google it as it a very old concept that describes the funding challenges of open-source. If something is freely shared by everyone and nobody is required to pay, then (almost?) nobody does as they either assume someone else will and/or don't want to contribute when others are not. That's why trademark holders of open-source always contribute so much more than others as they are the only one with a defensible market position related to the software. And if the trademark holders cannot make money off the trademark then contributions to the software are even so much less. It is all sadly just human nature. 🤷‍♂️

[@gardinbe782]

that thing about people being "ticking time bombs " when unintentionally reinforcing their beliefs was such a real take, i know im capable of this myself sometimes. really like the idea of presenting the question "what would it take you to change your mind" , will certainly have to use that

[@wyndmill]

my man mat gotta take a chill pill

[@nostalgianinja]

I don't like where this is going.... Yiiiikes. Talk about burning bridges and going scorched earth.

[@bjoernzosel]

Many performance plugins offer the possibility to turn of revisions. Its not a legit reason to call WPE a cancer

[@michiganpowerwashingpros]

You forget the part of where WP engine was stripping Woo commerce and stripe attribution to WordPress where they would’ve gained money from that and instead it went to them

[@michaelwillman5342]

Totally their right to do this under GPL.

[@dieselbaby]

It's their right to do so, and they are making less than $2,500/year from their Stripe referrals.

[@michiganpowerwashingpros]

@@dieselbaby therefore it’s their right to shut it down if they want🤷🏻‍♂️

[@michaelwillman5342]

​@@michiganpowerwashingpros You cant actually use a non-profit to make a profit.

[@succatash]

Seems like Automattic is mad WordPress is open-source and is trying to close source it.

[@gearboxworks]

Except that Matt champions the GPL, when it benefits him. 😏

[@vessbakalov8958]

The issue is that folks like WP Engine violate the spirit of open source. I don't know about the message, and the way it was delivered. But I can feel how someone can feel resignation is in this situation. I think the marketing angle is the real thorn here.

[@portalteam5832]

how so? wordpress code is open source, hosting it is not... Hosting costs money and resources, WPE provides that in exchange for your money. They also build and support ACF, WPGraphQL and more, they also offer a good headless solution. If anyone is "hacking up" WP, it's Automattic, they rebuilt the entire backend so they can limit what you can/cannot do.

[@k225]

WordPress and Automattic violate the very spirit of open source - a GPL-licensed project with a covert contract and extortion racket tactics.

[@quinncasey120]

holy clickbait batman

[@Farhan-l4g6o]

I agree with everything on this video (except for saying WordPress is notoriously slow!)

[@Desikz]

None of these videos about the WP drama give solutions to the main problem here, how do you deal with a leecher like WP engine?

[@wassupdoc7742]

shoutout to Kent C. Dodds, the best teacher/instructor

[@AndrewEddie]

Huh, and I thought we had drama in Joomla! back in the day.

[@alainportant6412]

xoops was nice

[@Renoistic]

I can't stand people who are all "nice people are just good at hiding their badness". Stop projecting.

[@randymccoy8097]

ThePrimeTime did an interview with Matt its pretty interesting

[@torsten_dev]

He may have had a case on the Trademark issues, but he's going to court with unclean hands. Those threats do not look good. Gotta hope there's no cause of action which needs actual malice because it looks like they got that.

[@gearboxworks]

"Unclean hands" - EXACTLY! Looks like, minimally, his actions amount to Tortious Interference, though IANAL. But I do hope that WPEngine sues him for it and they both get bogged down in years of expensive litigation (neither of them are "good apples", IMO.)

[@techjandro]

It seems like most people in the comments didn’t watch the video…

[@toadlguy]

I watched the video and Theo’s attitude to Matt is not only wrong, but specifically more overwrote and nasty than anything coming from Matt or Automattic. He is defending a company that is leeching off the work of the open source community against someone who is trying to keep open source viable, however inelegantly. WTF. This will not be a good look for Theo, I don’t get it. Is he invested in WP Engine?😢

[@boccobadz]

@@toadlguy Let's be honest, the guy has history with Vercel, the most expensive AWS wrapper. And he's invested in almost anything you can dump your money in (eg those code editors which are API wrappers on Cloud/OpenAI, etc). Leeching of others work seems like a patter here. Maybe I'm getting old, the more I listen to DHH, the more I think he's right about almost everything.

[@FlameForgedSoul]

@@toadlguy *Overwrought. We would say he's invested in people acting like rational adults. "Butmuhopensource" isn't an excuse for this guy's behavior.

[@dieselbaby]

@@toadlguy FYI you are in the minority, having this view, among the many people I know in the wordpress community as a user of WP for almost 20 years. Matt is unhinged, and I don't even care about WPEngine specifically, it's the principle that matters.

[@rafalfaro]

Someone needs to remove the admin role from Matt's user in the official wordpress site. He shouldn't be able to publish whatever whenever without prior review. He is unhinged.

[@Mooooov0815]

He was actually pretty reasonable in Primes stream

[@boccobadz]

@@Mooooov0815 This comment section is Theo's echo chamber.

[@nustaniel]

@@Mooooov0815 I thought so too, it was a bit messy, and I do think he is acting rather unprofessionally overall, but so is WP Engine on their website with the amount of ways they are leveraging the "WordPress" trademark to make themselves seem more official/endorsed/associated. They use that brand name all over in very specific ways. "Host your WordPress site with the WordPress experts." take note of that "the", that's no accident. Look at the heading for their blog section; "Moving WordPress forward" "The latest in WordPress" with articles pretty much exclusively about WP Engine. Their podcast "Press " a "WordPress Community Podcast" (my gut reaction was to think it was an official podcast for the community of WordPress users). There is an exceptional overuse of WordPress branding if they have no trademark rights to use it.

[@MatheusCruzRocha]

I think Matt doesn't get the most important message that Theo says in every video; "Peace Nerds"

[@LloydDewolf]

“WordPress is notorious slow” Trolling much? Saving this one for 15+ years?

[@veccio]

It’s still PHP, innit?

[@EvandroPastor]

I will tell you whats going (probably) to happen: WP Engine will fork WordPress, will fix all stuff is needed and will release it for free.

[@marcialabrahantes3369]

can we have paid-endpoints/private-apis to charge per CDN cost for origins of heavy users as a compromise? just a usage toll after 100GB of traffic / month maybe?

[@IntellectCorner]

*𝓣𝓲𝓶𝓮𝓼𝓽𝓪𝓶𝓹𝓼 𝓫𝔂 𝓘𝓷𝓽𝓮𝓵𝓵𝓮𝓬𝓽𝓒𝓸𝓻𝓷𝓮𝓻* 0:00 - WordPress Drama and WP Engine 2:13 - WP Engine is Not WordPress 6:52 - Matt Mullenweg vs. WP Engine 9:15 - WP Engine's Response 12:13 - The Core Issue of Value Extraction 15:20 - Matt's Divisive Tactics 18:41 - Hypocrisy in the WordPress Ecosystem 22:54 - Qualifying Contributions 24:32 - Cease and Desist Orders 27:40 - Trademark Dispute and Confusion 32:42 - Blocking WP Engine Customers and Further Actions

[@vcokltfre]

Your browser is lagging from 15ish tabs? Holy shit switch to a browser that doesn't suck

[@web_dev_cz]

are you sure you should not rename the thumbnail to "WP War" ??

[@Line49Design]

Really liked the way you captured the topic of defensive stubborn resistance to alternate points of view

[@DanielXavierDosReis]

Dude, you look Claude to CHECK if "wordpress get faser with revisions disabled"? Wtf, dude, first, you start with a misleading title, and then you trust IA? Are you for real?

[@QuadDrums]

Y porque no confiaría en la IA, es más inteligente que ambos nosotros

[@rcmnet]

​@@QuadDrumsyou don't do fact checking with AI, but the other way around

[@DanielXavierDosReis]

@@QuadDrums IA does not mean "intelligence"

[@javierflores09]

if anything at all AI is pretty good at answering that type of question, since there's been enough people asking for it then there's bound to be enough data for it to make a sensible answer - LLMs are not reliable at all when it comes to some specific areas but for questions like that, it is no more than a summarizer of its dataset

[@bluecup25]

21:50 - Gotta give him credit for that, I've seen people trash talking him in the comments many times and those comments don't get removed.

[@bibekshah3701]

"My browser is lagging from the number of tabs" for a double digit tabs Chrome problem I sit comfortably at 500+ tabs in Firefox. I do a clean up every half year or so reducing up to double digits.

[@petemoss3160]

HTML got me into web dev when i was 8, WordPress made it a job in my 20s... it also held me back until i learned JavaScript... not letting that hold me back, on to Go & Nim!

[@FrankEBailey]

Kent's a Mormon or at least Mormon-adjacent. Weird ideas aside, Mormons are just some of the most genuinely nice, good people I've ever met in my life.

[@noel-forte]

damn, there was some *conviction* behind that reaction to that bit (37:09) haha, I felt the same way when I read that

[@berserker556]

I didn't even know WP engine, so i have one doubt here , why can't one use git for reverting to previous revisions, why depend on wordpress revisions ?

[@fullstackcrackerjack]

WP data is stored in a mysql database. Revisions are in the database. It’s a dumb argument, most users don’t care about revisions.

[@GresterNandes]

I've been using Wordpress for simple blogs and website the last couple years because it was kinda simple to setup, but honestly just the fact its all made in PHP and a pain in the ass to develop for, I'm now learning Nuxt and looking forward to start doing website in something more modern and practical like that.

[@jonno081]

good luck

[@dieselbaby]

Why is PHP a pain in the ass to develop for? It's not bad at all, there's a super healthy (robust, even) ecosystem of amazing stuff for wordpress out there. If it works, why change it? You can have wordpress running BLAZING FAST too, look into something like slickstack to run your WP environments, I'm getting sites running as fast as any JS framework.

[@elusiveraps]

Or, you know, they could just contribute some of their profits to the open-source project their business entirely depends on..?

[@gearboxworks]

They do. They spend millions a year on WordCamps. But Matt conveniently ignores that expenditure because, frankly - IMO - Matt does not like that WPEngine is making all that money off of GPL-based WordPress when Matt really thinks - again, IMO - that all that revenue should be going to Matt's company AutoMattic. #fwiw

[@FerorYT]

All my homies hate Wordpress

[@rcmnet]

With a cumulated coding experience in wp floating around 0h, am I right?😂😂😂

[@zearthus7089]

I think React devs hate PHP specially wordpress and laravel

[@rcmnet]

@@zearthus7089 the funny thing is that a huge portion of Laravel devs are react devs too, same goes for many WordPress plugin developers, especially since the switch to the Gutenberg block editor

[@gearboxworks]

@@zearthus7089- Not that I am a fan of React - which I am not - but it is not like they don't have a good reason to hate PHP. And I should know. I developed professionally with a focus on WordPress+PHP for over a decade...

[@jonno081]

@@zearthus7089 and we hate react but who cares. do what you love

[@RicardoMetring]

I don't see anything wrong with Matt's stance. If WP Engine does more harm than good to the WP community, it's the right thing to call them out.

[@gearboxworks]

But what "harm" are they actually doing to the WP community? Specifically? From what I see the biggest "harm" is they are capturing revenue based on GPL-licensed software that a megalomaniac thinks by rights should be revenue for his own company, AutoMattic. (To be clear, I think both parties here are despicable, so I don't side with either of them, I only look at the legal aspect of it, and from IANAL perspective, it seems Matt is legally culpable for his tortious interference.)

[@RicardoMetring]

Open source software doesn't work like that. The majority of the contributions are made with developer time paid from private companies. It's a group effort to make everybody's life easier. Their free use of GPL can't be compared to individuals like you and me downloading the zip from WPORG. When you take away that much profit from competitors who are contributing, you're essentially doing more harm than good to the ecosystem.

[@leonsantiago8860]

Vercel will be gone and forgotten way before WP drops below 35% of powering all internet.

[@kellyaquinastom]

I agree with 5% for the future of linux. They need massive work on the printer exploits and other code problems. 9.9 reading!. 10m$ easy.

[@leonardo_iann]

I don't understand the point of clickbait. The only effect it generates for me is to remove the possible follow and discourage the channel.

[@m4rt_]

I'm not sure of "5 for the future" includes this, but a better version could be 5% of effort helping out the code... or donating back 5% (or some other number) to support the project they are relying on to do all that they do. Or maybe a combination of both, some programming effort and some donations. As I agree, just adding more programmers to a project doesn't mean it gets better, so an alternative where they can support the project without doing that is funding it so the project itself can figure out how it can better improve.

[@Technopath47]

Whelp, now I'm getting worried about having my author and book sites on WordPress. Unfortunately, I'm not a developer (rather, I'm a sysadmin), so I'll probably end up throwing in the towel and converting markdown files to static pages as one giant "I give up" as I don't have the bandwidth to learn web dev at the moment. :(

[@10ahm01]

It's not really dying if you watch the video

[@iant9053]

Don’t worry WordPress still powers a significant portion of the internet, great for blogs and seo

[@rcmnet]

Dude relax, wp is getting bigger and better every year, the title is just FUD, a hatchet job

[@petethompson3176]

please don't let this irresponsible use of clickbait cause you stress. wordpress will be fine and so will your sites you built with it

[@happydays4176]

so... uhm.... what to do if you, by accident, published something that you didnt want/was not allowed to publish :|

[@tunjioye]

Wow, this is sad. It seems WordPress Founder does not understand what it means to run an open source community. The back clash on WP Engine is too much. And at this rate it might affect other WordPress related Projects and Communities.

[@Toberumono]

Edit: WP desperately needs better build tools. It’s *very* hard to make revisions bad in recent WP versions. It’s *doable*, but you have to be deliberately using legacy hooks VERY incorrectly. Source: I managed to do it.

[@danny3man]

Damn, the comments are full of wordpress fanboys who did not watch the whole video.

[@YaserAlhosani]

I'm thinking moving to Strapi CMS because WordPress lacks meaningful enhancements, and even minor improvements can take 5-10 years to be implemented.

[@timbauer399]

I'm a big fan of Kent Dodds. Always great to see him get a positive shout out.

[@liquidtags]

After doing that interview with him bro, that title is dishonest.

[@LearnWordPressWithYaverAbbas]

WordPress can NOT end, so is PHP. Mark my words! 😊

[@theoneandonlyzulu3342]

I've never once coded in C#, but based on the knowledge shown in this video, I'm going to start a KZbin channel, with clickbait titles, discussing my opinions on it 🙄

[@gsgregory2022]

...I'm not sure because it's trademark and not copyright, but it feels like it would be pretty hard to argue that after so many, many years of them letting it slide.

[@Luxalpa]

It's actually quite easy: It's impossible. For trademarks to be valid you have to show that you defend them. Since they very obviously didn't, their trademark is invalid.

[@MachineYearning]

@@Luxalpa it's unlikely that would be a sufficient defense in the case of Trade Dress Violations.

[@m4rt_]

0:50 Is that amount of tabs really lagging your browser? That's nothing... I have on several occasions had hundreds of tabs open and the browser being fine with it...

[@andymoss4285]

Either you make oss and treat it as oss, or you make commercial software and charge people for it. End of

[@jonno081]

sure. but this is about tradwmark, not the software. you'r conflating issues

[@andymoss4285]

@@jonno081 no this is about somebody complaining that not enough money is being contributed and not enough man hours, both of which cost money. It’s masquerading as a trademark dispute as a way to attack them. It’s free open source software. There is no actual agreement that those things are required to use the software, it is however encouraged. It’s beneficial to the development of the product. But it’s not a requirement.

[@berenscott8999]

They are allowed to be called "WP engine", and they can use "WP" as much as they want in the body of text. But, that isn't what they are using, they are using "WordPress" very frequently. And they don't have a license to use the term "WordPress".

[@jacobdoran9433]

Sometimes it's hard to tell when Theo is reading vs when he's providing commentary. Perhaps there needs to be more air between the two?

[@zayadur]

I guess working within frameworks leads to thinking in terms of headlines.

[@sunderkeenin]

Beyond the moral reasons to not harass anyone in these videos there's a practical reason. People who are doing stupid stuff and then getting that stupid stuff publicized to such an extent are doomed to see the consequences of their actions anyway. It's a waste of the energy of random people to do what the concerned parties can do much much better than any number of us.

[@LuminousLorien]

Where is haha reaction for the title?

[@desmond3318]

putting thousands of hours a week into wordpress... and wordpress still sucks, he is just telling on himself.

[@ray73864]

Wordpress isn't even the original. B2/Cafelog is the original, Wordpress is based off of it.

[@somerandomlittlechannel7860]

Why is his barrier for "successful entrepreneur" a billion dollar business?

[@ZoltarTube]

What laptop is that?

[@wyleong4326]

Sounds like someone is pissy for gifting work but wants it back.

[@MichaelNiles]

Matt needs to step down for the sake of the community.

[@gearboxworks]

Yeah, not going to happen. At least not voluntarily. There is more chance Donald Trump will step down from being a candidate for POTUS. 🤷‍♂️

[@garcipat]

Why the f is it even possible disabling revisions if it is such a crucial feature of wordpress? configure something off if possible is a business desicion. they even tell you transparently on their website.

[@Egon_Freeman]

@32:40 Though to be fair? I think this action highlights a very important thing: we're relying on some very centralised components for our ecosystem. Maybe that's _not such a great idea?_ :D Maybe we need a set of mirrors for WP stuff that could _not_ block someone because of _perceived slights?_ Something to ponder on.

[@WibowoSulistio]

Matt's clarifications with more insider info: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmepYYOdgsh-ja8 (Friday, Sept 27)

[@Egon_Freeman]

@17:40 You _do realise_ that the word "essential" _literally means "absolutely necessary"_ right? As in, "impossible without". :D

[@rafalfaro]

That's it WordPress lost me. I'm not using software that can ban me from getting updates whenever they want as means of extortion.

[@Deffy1992]

This whole drama sounds like a major boon to CraftCMS and Drupal. What a shit show. So sad that my entire junior developer experience was with WP. But with this dude at the top, now i know why i had so many frustrations with it, compared to any other CMS or framework I've ever worked with afterwards.

[@portalteam5832]

They literally destroyed/modified evidence after the cease and desist told them not to by updating the trademark policy

[@happydays4176]

omg.... conclusion - to avoid business risks dont use anything that has wp or wordpress in it