This Non-Euclidean Strategy Game Is SO CLEVER! - HyperRogue

[@Aliensrock]

Sweet game, I like it even more now that I understand the goal of the game - unlock new biomes which unlock more new biomes which unlock some end game stuff. Beat the end game stuff and you win. There's a lot more depth than what I first realized!

[@briansun9261]

cool

[@arandomcommenter6759]

Deez

[@ned_arb]

Im so happy to have gotten this notification! I used to comment about this game because I knew you'd get a kick out of it, but stopped at some point, really glad you checked it out

[@atmaweapon3958]

one might say that there is exponentially more depth than in a euclidean game

[@mistercookboom1899]

Its like a normal game with a fish eye camera.

[@calvinbarbanell2449]

So here's just a general tip for the game: right clicking on things will tell you what they do: It explains how the biomes work and how you unlock them; it explains how the enemies' AIs work and how to defeat them (if, like the vizier, they are defeated in some way other than attacking them); and it will even explain many of the objects and obstacles in this world.

[@SpriteGuard]

12:04 you found your way into a late-game area that combines mechanics and enemies from a bunch of other lands. There are lands in the game that just explore each one of those mechanics in depth. If you play more of the game and then come back to Eclectic City, it will make a lot more sense. Also remember you can right-click anything to see what it does!

[@a1aaaaaaaaaaaaaa-r6t]

Seconding. Right clicking is really useful to understand things about the game. I'd also recommend changing the setting to make it so ranged orbs (such as the Orb of the Frog) to require you to hold shift to use them. It makes it so you don't accidentally use the orb by clicking too far away from your current cell.

[@kalzekdor]

About the treasure, it does 4 things: 1. Increases your score. 2. Each treasure you collect makes the Realm you collected it from more dangerous. (Each Realm has its own unique treasure.) 3. Collecting 10 of a Treasure in an Realm allows a specific Orb to spawn in that Realm, like the Orb of Flash you used. Collecting 25 of the Treasure also allows the Orb to spawn outside of its native Realm. 4. Some Realms are only accessible after meeting specific requirements. For example the Palace can only be accessed after collecting a total of 30 Treasure.

[@justseffstuff3308]

I think the Ice Wolves just follow the greatest source of heat, which is why they switched to you when you got close, then back to the campfire when you left again

[@Fulgur14]

Yes, this also means that they usually cannot follow you out of the biome because heat is only tracked in certain places.

[@paradoxica424]

it's more than that. they can only move to cells which are strictly warmer than the one they are standing on, and, they will actively move away from cells that are below freezing.

[@justseffstuff3308]

@@paradoxica424 Oooh, I see! Thanks for the info

[@columbus8myhw]

There's a hyperbolic sokoban (that is, block-pushing) game called Sokyokuban that you might enjoy. (The name is a pun; "sōkyoku" means "hyperbolic" in Japanese, and "sokoban" is the name of the block-pushing genre)

[@Green24152]

I would like a link to it.

[@columbus8myhw]

@@Green24152 I tried, but my comment kept on getting deleted (auto-flagged?). Google sends you straight to it.

[@Tzizenorec]

So, if "Sokoban" is "Warehouse keeper" (Soko = warehouse, ban=management/accounting), then ""sōkyokuban" is "hyperbolic manager". The "So" part doesn't appear to be related between the two words. In "sōkyoku", it's represented by the character 双 ("Sō" meaning twin); in "sokoban" the "soko" bit is represented by the two characters 倉庫, which is basically saying "warehouse" twice, and the pronunciation of each character separately is unrelated.

[@loganm2924]

Holy shit I’ve played this game for ages. Please play more of it, the amount of strategy is insane.

[@CMP7778]

I think I've heard of this game before and it's supposed to be really good. I am excited to watch you play it! Keep up the great content Tyler! Tyler quote of the day: "let's hide in here, you can't get me ass- oh you can come in here!"

[@paradoxica424]

good if you can click with it, just like any other genre. some of my friends said they don't like having to restart from zero, but i like it that way.

[@Personboiman]

Seems like a really cool game I think if this becomes a series it will be an enjoyable one

[@godlyvex5543]

You can right click things to see what they do, by the way. The main goal is to collect as much treasure as possible, but as you collect treasure, the land that that treasure is from gets more difficult. I wouldn't mess with any of the alternate modes, aside from maybe orb strategy mode, which is more of a long term experience, where instead of finding lots of orbs on the ground, you save them up to use in dangerous situations. Also, next time you play, press F1 to see a short little guide on the general flow of the game.

[@AdrianWoodUK]

8:47 - So, another thing that happens from picking up treasures (apart from increasing difficulty in that area and unlocking new areas) is you start to get more of orbs like the one here. With another treasures collected, they'll even start to appear in other areas, which is why you also got Flash in the Palace later.

[@xSuperFryx]

I thought this looked stupid at first but man its really well made! Would love to see more and see end game stuff.

[@benjaminwatson7868]

The dev’s been at the game for five years at least

[@viviainusher4766]

The music is such a vibe and just I really enjoyed this. I don't know your plans on it but I would love to see more of this. This was cool as heck.

[@justseffstuff3308]

...I didn't understand quite how screwy the hyperbolic space was until I saw the septagon surrounded by seven hexagons, that looks so wrong Must've been a massive pain to program, though then again I suppose computers are better at understanding non-Euclidean stuff than us

[@sapphire--9375]

Computers probably dont care about weather things are euclidian or not. Of course we, the programmers, do, so it mustve been a big fukin pain to program yea

[@TekExplorer]

Look up hyperbolica devlogs

[@tghy71]

Think of it like a soccer ball, which has pentagons surrounded by hexagons. Except instead of a ball, it's a hyperboloid, and instead of pentagons, it's heptagons.

[@shadowcween7890]

@@tghy71 just imagine it like a globe but klein bottle

[@neopalm2050]

@@sapphire--9375 No, the computers definitely care. If you tiled euclidean space with any tiling, you can very easily represent a tile with just a couple of numbers. e.g. a square tile in the normal square tiling can be represented with just an x coordinate and a y coordinate. Telling when tiles are adjacent is also pretty trivial. If you want the tiles to tile hyperbolic space though, you'd have to represent tiles in a different way that's not quite as easy as "the coordinates, orientation, and type of the tile" since coordinates are harder to use universally in hyperbolic space. (so basically, I agree it would be a massive pain to program compared to a euclidean version)

[@JacoTheDeadRuler]

Definitely quite nasueating to watch at first, feels like you are on top a mountain/about to fall down, but definitely a really interesting concept. Especially for a math major like me.

[@zacharybarbanell1064]

Believe it or not, this game does have a first person mode (as well as VR support), if you really want to go through that for some reason. You can play the normal 2d game from a 3d perspective, or play it in a 3d geometry,

[@imjustwolf]

Definitely do more of this game! It was really interesting to watch you figure out what to do.

[@canadian_grim_reaper]

A non adventure game in non-euclidean space? Hyperbolica could never

[@columbus8myhw]

I think Hyperbolica achieved its goal of being a tech demo. It always felt like the gameplay was treated as secondary by the developer (which is a shame)

[@pvic6959]

i was so upset when he said he didnt like hyperbolica. i dont care that he doesnt like it, it was the way he said it and how he said it. he didnt have to be so harsh ive been watching the dev logs for so long and i know how much love and thought went into the game just for him to say something like "i despise it" (i dont remember the exact words but he could have just said its not for him)

[@columbus8myhw]

@@pvic6959 He didn't say that. He said "It was very intriguing, but ultimately it was an adventure game, and adventure games disgust me"

[@Tehom1]

The Hypersian Rug is an in-joke. It's the name of a visualization of hyperbolic space. By the same guy, I think.

[@jlco]

Oh man, I remember playing this back when I first installed Ubuntu on my laptop, since it was one of the only games I saw on the Synaptic Package Manager. Pretty funky concept, basically top-down Hyperbolica (of course, Hyperbolica released two days ago, whereas this has been around for at least five years to my knowledge).

[@a1aaaaaaaaaaaaaa-r6t]

Also Hyperbolica is finite and has a premade map, whereas this is procedurally generated and infinite. So it explores hyperbolic space in two rather different ways.

[@CntRational]

HyperRogue is one of my favorite games, I'm excited to see you play it!

[@ridiculouspyro64]

Glad to see such a good game getting more recognition!

[@pedroff_1]

The moevent-based strategy aspect made me remember Crypt of the Necrodancer. Except, of course, without the whole "on the beat of the music" thing

[@paradoxica424]

Warped Coast was specifically inspired by parity-dependent gameplay in Crypt of the NecroDancer.

[@sakesaurus]

@@paradoxica424 parity huh? I called it parity before, I knew it's the reason i can't smack that goblin. Still, it's kinda cool others use math to describe game mechanics

[@Thatwasademo]

The Seep that you saw in the Living Wall zone is a reference to Deadly Rooms of Death (DROD), a game series which I would highly recommend based on the amount you've previously enjoyed Baba is You and seem to like the combat of this game. (DROD is about similarly chess-ish turn-based combat, but in ordinary taxicab geometry instead of hyperbolic geometry and in designed puzzles rather than random terrain; also featuring a Really Big Sword reminiscent of the fork from Stephen's Sausage Roll)

[@Intrebute]

There are some areas that explore different ideas and how they play out in hyperbolic geometry. For example, there's at least 4 different biomes that explore what gravity might look like, all in completely different ways. This game is fun, and if this is as much as you're going to cover, I personally recommend you explore all the biomes with the debug menu just so you can see how _much_ variety there is and how unique every feature gets.

[@teomankaranfil]

"They took Hyperbolica and did what Tametsi did to Hexcells." -Tyler 2022

[@codesymphony]

had my eye on this game for a while but every time i looked at it i had no idea what was happening. so ty for covering it

[@itioticginger9520]

Have you looked into Recursed? It's a game totally up your alley.

[@paradoxica424]

Meta-nested programmatic interactions. Putting the Cursed in Recursed.

[@Lucian4694]

yooo its the og hyperbolic game, i never thought he'd actually play this

[@scronchgoose7403]

Honestly, this doesn’t mess with my eyes at all

[@the_nick_knack]

Kinda crazy how this game has the same premise as Hyperbolica, doesn't look as polished, and yet is much better gameplay wise.

[@JacoTheDeadRuler]

Triple a games vs indie devs in a nutshell

[@EmeraldEmsiron]

@@JacoTheDeadRuler im pretty sure both are indie just with vastly different intentions

[@paradoxica424]

HyperRogue is over a decade old and the developer is an active geometer in academia, it's kinda hard to polish a game visually, mechanically, and juggle an academic day job trimultaneously.

[@thesatelliteslickers907]

if you right click on an enemy or tile. you get a short blurb about how that enemy or biome works, the eclectic city combines the mechanics of several other biomes at the same time

[@vehicleboi5598]

hyperbolica’s grandpa

[@VeryRGOTI]

Hey i was fairly recently thinking about reinstalling this game but didnt exactly remember what the name of it was, thanks for the upload and gameplay tyler!

[@lukatolstov5598]

0:01 Intro and Icy Land 1:12 Hunting ground 2:23 Jungle 2:30 I didn't knew that when active ivy has no space to move it dies. 3:35 6:22 Living Cave 4:42 Alchemist Lab 6:54 Stuck 7:17 Crystal World 8:07 Game over

[@JacoTheDeadRuler]

Gameplay seems similar to pixel dungeon with the letting the enemies approach you and then attack style gameplay. Might be interesting to see Tyler do a playthrough of pixel dungeon.

[@ZenoRogue]

You mention Pixel Dungeon in particular, but that's how basically most roguelikes (in the traditional sense) work. I mean, this particular thing is a consequence of the general idea of a character moving in turns on a grid. Fans of this genre are annoyed by how "roguelike" popularly means something totally different now. Any good trad roguelike should be cool too! Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is one of the most popular ones currently.

[@tritoner1221]

finally someone covered this gem!

[@Nauriek]

Man, i wish i could take this game and import it's mechanics into special dungeons of a fleshed-out Roguelike game.

[@paradoxica424]

Zeno didn't like that direction of development because of grinding being a potential issue. So instead we have what would be considered an "experimental roguelike" (ignoring the part where this game has been fully fleshed out for a very long time) Of course, some people like grinding but it's not for everyone.

[@jherboss2516]

I started playing this game and I was thinking to myself that you would like this. I am so exited to see you play this.

[@FlameRat_YehLon]

This is one of those rare moments for a Steam gamer that, out of boredom you launch a random game in your Steam library full of bundled games, and it's actually good. To me it's a bit less random though, since it's also available in VR, making it show up in a way smaller list. My only complain about this game, though, is that the VR mode is like, almost works, but isn't, and they really should get a working VR mode so that we can enjoy the game in dumb but fun first person view.

[@notbaconzzzzzzz]

I would love to see more of this game on this channel.

[@Captain_Willlow]

Please play more of this :)

[@d3ofol]

I haven't seen this game in FOREVER

[@giakobbo]

would love to see more of this

[@TheAgamemnon911]

It's such a unique game. Where else is geometry itself your best friend and your worst enemy at the same time?

[@WanderTheNomad]

Oh so the further the radius, the further ahead in the future you can plan your moves. Like how in tetris you can see which pieces are coming up.

[@jocrane01]

More of this game please.

[@markzupancic3717]

Play Don't touch anything in VR. It's a great puzzle game with.

[@turtleshelley7577]

Great vid! Love the Seinfeld reference btw

[@greenbirdmusic7495]

suggestion status: success unless you found it through a different suggestion, but YEEEE

[@paradoxica424]

i never thought this was up his alley so i didn't even bother.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

Cool concept, creative game.

[@popahglo3609]

Tyler is on a hyperbolic roll right now

[@joshburleigh8252]

The palace guards look like captain sauce!

[@PaulyPop]

Damn another video I have to take a back seat on because of motion sickness

[@esosaenakoya5807]

Have you ever tried to play "the pedestrian" its a puzzle platformer in 2.5D and I was suprised when I saw the art en how the puzzle mechanics work

[@EmeraldEmsiron]

iirc he played it on one of his mega variety streams

[@dom7899]

Tyler yesterday: i loathe adventure games, they are garbage. Tyler today playing an adventure game: I like this. i think its pretty fun

[@godlyvex5543]

maybe cause it was a bad adventure game, really shallow with few puzzles or gameplay elements in general, while this game is deep with all of those things

[@paradoxica424]

is this adventure though? it has a different flavour

[@ilovehumongoushonkers]

Finally he plays it

[@tdubmorris5757]

Still a bit sad hyperbolica didn't get a full playthrough but hyperrouge should also be fun.

[@Tiggy227]

wow! I would love to see more of this ngl

[@itsBenjamon]

is this game gonna give me a headache like the last non-Euclidean game? edit: yes

[@Luiscpiii]

13:49 "im where i need to be right now, killing minors" lol

[@maxmeek8923]

Not for me, but I still dropped a like because I love your channel

[@fishthefishbro3403]

I guess the guy really doesn’t like to step on the lines on the floor

[@infn8loopmusic]

This is very challenging to watch if you are dyslexic

[@user-AADZ]

4:28 hazbin hotel writing

[@legendgames128]

Goal of the game: Get the Orb of Yendor by unlocking lots of lands, defeating tons of monsters, and get the key to obtain the orb of Yendor. Exponentially easier said than done.

[@tuopi27]

if you liked the non-euclidian madness of hyperrogue, you should try out the new game hyperbolica. i have been following its development in the devlogs for a while, and it just came out.

[@cantonripfist]

He already made a video on hyperbolica it came out a few days ago

[@nathaniel9045]

in what ways does the game need to be played differently as a result of the non-euclidean geometry. why couldnt it be on a grid of hexagons for example?

[@jlco]

A grid of only hexagons- rather than the hexagons interspersed with heptagons as seen in a few biomes here- would give you a euclidian 2D playing field. Using hexagons and pentagons together gives you spherical geometry- as you may have noticed from some soccer ball designs.

[@Jack-lp3gc]

unique properties of hyperbolic space, particularly the stupidly massive amount of space it provides (for example a circle in hyperbolic space has 10's - 100's of times more area than a circle of same circumference in Euclidean space), Alot of the biomes involve puzzles that take advantage of or show off these properties like the is a holonomy biome where you have to walk in circles to reorientate the world around you. and the biomes like the one with the vines wouldn't work in Euclidean space because it would fill too quickly.

[@mach5620]

In hyperbolic space, straight lines diverge. This means that if you run away from enemies, they start to line up, allowing you to hit them one by one. You simply couldn't do that in euclidean space, they would all keep the same distance. You couldn't do 1:30 with a grid of hexagons (in euclidean space, you can have hyperbolic hexagon grids), both hunting dogs would always be right next to you.

[@godlyvex5543]

The game actually has several examples of how the game would work differently in euclidean space. It would be much harder to find other areas, it would be more difficult to escape, and the gimmicks of several areas simply wouldn't work at all.

[@SpriteGuard]

The Alchemy Lab and Living Cave are both far easier to navigate because of the geometry, they branch and branch without looping back on themselves or hitting dead ends. Alchemy Lab in particular would have way, way more dead ends. There are some later lands that explore other aspects of hyperbolic geometry, with infinitely large structures that couldn't exist in Euclidean geometry like the Clearing (an infinitely large mutant ivy) and the Haunted Woods, which is a "bigger on the inside" trap where you can become lost forever. There's also a process called holonomy where you can change the orientation of things around you by walking in a circle. This is used in the Burial Grounds to dig for treasure with a sword that always points the same direction. There's the Round Table, which is a circle that is only 28 tiles in radius, but contains more area than most cities. Finding the center is an extremely difficult puzzle, whereas it would be trivial (and much smaller area to search) in Euclidean geometry. There's the orb of Yendor, which has a key 100 paces away, and then you have to find your way back. In Euclidean geometry it would be simple enough to retrace your steps accurately enough just by memory, but in hyperbolic geometry, even a single error in retracing your steps can lead you someplace very far from where you were trying to go. In the Land of Eternal Motion and the Hunting Ground, you would never be able to escape the dogs in Euclidean geometry. The lack of parallel lines in hyperbolic geometry makes it so that dogs can't run alongside you, they have to run on exactly the same line as you or get left behind, so they line up nicely in Hunting Ground and get left behind in LOEM. Every land in the game has some way that it interacts with the geometry to create situations that couldn't exist in Euclidean geometry, those are just a few.

[@mistery8363]

u can right click stuff to get explanations btw

[@bamaxdaws6459]

13:50 Nobody take this out of context, please.

[@poemes]

Very nice

[@JacobTheCroc]

Nice game, music reminds me of RuneScape.

[@watamatafoyu]

The music sounds non-euclidean

[@Poly_0000]

This game missed the opportunity to have microtonal music

[@Abominus2]

at 3pm???

[@AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA6948]

Hey I love your vids and I found a really cool rougelike game that I really want you to check out it's a game about you living in a dome and mining ores to upgrade your defenses it's called Dome Romantik it's only has a demo but it still has a lot of depth in it

[@greyghost9721]

How is this not an adventure game lol. Great vid tho

[@paradoxica424]

is this adventure though? it has a different flavour

[@ricardsmuncis2858]

You should try Rogue Tower

[@bradgould215]

this looks cool

[@loganbaker007]

This game is a lot better than hyperbolica

[@paradoxica424]

it's been continuously polished in its mechanical depth for over a decade, so naturally it's going to be better.

[@terabyte6903]

Did you know you can play minesweeper in HyperRogue?

[@mattferrigno9750]

Did he really just say that point A to B is faster then going in a circle... a 5 year old knows this man lol

[@paradoxica424]

significantly faster, not just "faster" (lapse in language, it's forgiveable). for a disk of radius 20 units that's the difference between pi*20^2 ~ 1257 and pi*1.722^5 ~ 165125 units.

[@godlyvex5543]

It's WAY faster, as the other guy said. A circle with a diameter of 56 would have a circumference of over 10 million.

[@kosbebot6360]

I agree, the distortion of the tiles isn't a great experience x(

[@paradoxica424]

there is no way of projecting a hyperbolic surface onto a euclidean one without some form of distortion. it's a theorem of differential geometry. (also true for spherical surfaces)

[@legendgames128]

You have to choose how you want the tiles to be distorted, whether it'd be in a disk, in the entire Euclidean plane, or embedding it in 3d.

[@EichiNemoto.]

Oh god, this is one video i cant watch when sleepy. Started to hurt my brain haha

[@sciguystfm]

Same :c

[@flamesdiamond]

Yessssssssss

[@scratezzz]

I can’t believe I can’t enjoy the game cos it literally hurts my head looking at the surrounding shifts as you move ; -;

[@huang111]

That title is just firing shots at hyperbolica

[@paradoxica424]

i mean everyone in the hyperbolic video game scene agrees that hyperbolica is just a small tech demo of a nearly-complete game engine for hyperbolic space. that's just the unfortunate nature of re-inventing the wheel. (granted codeparade's engine is more suited to continuous movements, and has better visuals)

[@huang111]

@@paradoxica424 I was making a joke about how the original title had something to do with “non-euclidean non-adventure game is so clever”. Which was literally just firing shots at hyperbolica because he said he hates adventure games

[@legendgames128]

@@huang111 Ironically, Hyperrogue is an adventure game.

[@EvanG529]

Would be nice if they could beautify the game a little. It's a bit of a bore to look at. Maybe some textures that warp around the polygons.

[@problemsolver3254]

13:50 kinda sus not gona lie

[@columbus8myhw]

If I post a comment with a link, does it get held for review? I was confused why a comment I wrote kept on disappearing

[@Shlarpi]

Imagine not being early

[@praisethyjeebus]

Never been this early, what do I do?

[@shubanvarkar7080]

great vid also i would recommend playing bendy and the ink mechine it is a puzzle game mixed with horror , i watched other youtubers play it and tried to replace their reactions with yous and IT WAS PERFECT. pls give it a try

[@blainebortuga1611]

I'm too high for this shit

[@victorvirgili4447]

Kinda reminds me of Ardor

[@EmeraldEmsiron]

does anyone know if the individual sections are infinite or just stupidly fuckin large?

[@Fulgur14]

Most are infinite. Camelot, though, is the SFL type.

[@ZenoRogue]

In practice infinite. Technically every game is limited by (1) player patience, (2) computer RAM, (3) used number representations (think Far Lands in Minecraft). HyperRogue uses a 16-bit signed integer to store the distance from the origin, so if you are patient enough (and have enough RAM) to spend a few hours to go about 30000 steps from the start, weird things start to happen (inspired by Far Lands). Which means that the size of the world is a number with about 7000 digits. Not sure about the individual sections, but they are definitely larger than, say, No Man's Sky (about 20 digits.)

[@EmeraldEmsiron]

@@ZenoRogue gotya, so limited moreso by computation than geometry. intuitively its really weird to think like, a space can have 3 or more non parallel lines and still be infinitely large, byt thats hyperbolic space for ya I guess

[@legendgames128]

@@ZenoRogue It's funny to think that every zone you encounter are like areas of chords in a hyperbolic circle that has radius of 30000 steps and they never intersect except at Crosslands 3 and 4.

[@BlueberryCats_]

Legit just read a comment on another of your videos about this lol

[@Coolwaterdragon1]

Check out neon sundown

[@Manstrual]

Damn

[@danbopes6699]

What is it with you playing games that screw with your 🧠?