This ONE CHANGE Can Fix Mythic + Forever!

[@jamesjohnsoniii8068]

I say that they need to implement a Vote to Abandon kind of feature. 6min or so after the key starts, anyone in the group can click the button and if 3/5 say yes, key dead try again. If you leave before 6min then you get deserter debuff and cant access LFD/LFG. After key starts, party leader cant kick either to prevent griefing

[@7588mads]

I beleive you can report players quite easily, you can right click their names in chat or right click their portraits and "report player" and a few options will come up. Just pick one closest to your reason and right "griefing keys or intentionally killing keys" or something like that.

[@VDHmain]

I think 3 charges would be better than no depletion, because it avoids the swap to tournament real style of play, which the majority of pug players would absolutely hate. No depletion means you can repeat an insane first pull over and over until you get it right and only then will you keep going. Static groups would love it, pugs would try to emulate this and make everybody miserable. You know it's gonna happen because lower players always try to emulate the meta even when it's pointless.

[@zaldinfox]

My solution: Player deaths take X seconds from the timer. At the beginning of the key, X=0. Every 3 minutes, increase X by 1. Players who leave within the first 3 minutes receive a 3 hour leaver debuff (can't enter a dungeon). At 3 minutes into the key, each death take 1 second from your timer. At 6 mins, each death takes 2 seconds. At 24 minute mark, each death removes 4 seconds from the timer, and so on. The point of this change is to focus on the main pain point, which is that people feel a dungeon is a waste of their time, so they leave. This curbs the most egregious habits (tanks who leave after the first couple of pulls) while allowing teams to be more aggressive early in the dungeon if they know the penalty is not as severe for making a mistake. By the end of the dungeon, the timer penalty is approaching the high-stakes situation present in the current game. In my mind, removing the timer entirely completely destroys the genre. People want to feel that they are engaging in meaningful content, and the timer is what gives M+ its unique flavour and compelling challenge. Ramping the challenge properly to ensure a higher percentage of players are having fun throughout the dungeon would address the main problem areas.

[@Lordwolfie59]

10000% agreed. If depletion was gone and they let us get a little more crests for failed keys it would solve everything. The crazy thing is Blizzard has allowed this in other games like Diablo 3 with a system called "greater rifts" it allowed you to push up the difficult similar to mythic+. As an example lets say you got to greater rift 14 and failed. Guess what you can go rerun that greater rift 14.

[@TenSyc]

I'm in the same boat, pushed 24s before the squish and now in TWW I struggle to knock out 12s and 13s. I think the one change they can make to fix mythic+ is to get their philosophy in order with how players enjoy playing this content. No one enjoys pulling 1 pack of mobs at a time, no one enjoys 1 mistake cascading in a wipe and thereby a key depletion. Blizzard looked at keys being timed with 20 deaths and said "we gotta fix something here" even though I would argue that trying to salvage a rough run and actually pulling it off was where player growth actually took place and doing so wasn't free, it.took big pulls and big dps. Blizzard also decided to put a 2'6" step on the progression curve with this massive leap from 11 to 12 that literally requires relearning certain boss fights and cd management. I don't think it is key depletion, very clearly most people involved in climbing know it is just a matter of finding a chad group and performing to the same standard you expect from the people you group with. If my key depletes, im certainly not running it back with the 900k overall mage who died with iceblock off cd for 3 deaths in a row or the squishy ass tank who keeps turning his back to mobs. Maybe instead they add a stipulation that if a key was depleted by 120 seconds or less, you could enact a vote to run it back with that group and if it passed, you got 1 more shot at it. I think more than anything though, blizzard needs to stop policing how mythic+ is consumed and understand that 1 wipe ending a run in most +12 situations just flat out sucks.

[@DrGeazy]

It’s crazy because there is no 24 keys in TWW. A 12 is more like a 25-26 the jump is stupid +11 is an old +22 then a +12 is more like an old +25 - +26 with the 10% affix and scaling. They need to change scaling after 10s maybe. It’s ruined this season for me. I have stopped pushing. I got 5 done at +12 and +13 and I’m done. Hopefully they fix it next season. Gonna try myself POE2 when it launches in EA next week

[@VDHmain]

Yeah +11 is an old +21 but +12 is like an old +25. The jump is huge and requires quite a bit of progging, which pugs don't tend to get. Before the leaver ban, half the +12 pugs seemed to brick on the first pull, and 25% about halfway through. No leavers would let people prog the whole keys. It's easy to fix though, network and play with the same players. Static groups don't leave and prog their whole keys, and have a much higher success rate.

[@MrCarlWax]

At some point you'll still be in a key that requires no deaths. It's only a question of where.

[@TenSyc]

@MrCarlWax i see what you are saying, but I'd argue that even the top keys right now have at least a few deaths. They have the cd management and damage to circumvent deaths, though. There was already a lack of incentive, and rewards to push keys beyond mythic vault, putting up a brick wall right beyond 10s is a great way to further stop players from even trying to.

[@Toilettrauma88]

It's easy to report. Right click the target, press report player. Then inappropriate communication. Then boosting/ deranking and in comments put griefing. It's worked for me. I've done it dozens of times with a few replies from blizzard (3 or 4 i think) they've taken action.

[@bryanbopp3669]

Solutions: 1. Leaving a Key results in a 30-minute coward debuff, that requires "Active Playtime" to remove - AFK status or Logging Out pauses the debuff. -- The Key will be reset, retaining both level and dungeon -- Key owners should not be penalized by disconnects or griefers. -- If the owner of the key leaves -- They are hit with all negative penalties; Deserter Debuff, Key Depletion, and Dungeon Reroll 2. Coward Debuff - Unable to Enter Dungeons/Delves and Disables the LFG Function entirely. No LFR/LFD either. -- Only the first person to leave gets the Debuff -- Every Desertion adds another 30-minute "Stack" to the debuff -- Every Week one Stack is removed (This is designed to not over-punish people who innocently disconnect) -- Temporarily forces a Title change next to their name to "The Coward"; "Player the Coward" 3. Vote to Abandon - 3 of 5 party members must agree to abandon the key (Including the Owner) to result in no Debuff -- If a party member disconnects, and a vote is passed. The member who disconnected will not be penalized. 4. Failing a Key doesn't deplete the key, but abandoning the key results in a negative depletion. -- Example: Not Timing the Key, but completing it will not deplete the key, but will reroll it to another dungeon -- Abandoning the Key will drop the key by one level AND reroll it to another dungeon

[@kantace5198]

To make it fair, PvP rating should also not decrease anymore ;). If they remove key depletion, it should only happen at 11 or later. Because they are also the only ones who have to proc new keys and have to try strats

[@clockwork9011]

I 100% agree! Been saying this for a while! Like a dark souls boss you try and try again you learn the dance as I call it! No reason to ruins someone’s key because of toxic players! Just make make M+ more accessible! Increase loot and get rid of depleted keys!

[@zachemorgan]

blizz ruined your key by addin extra death time. end of story

[@clockwork9011]

@ that’s not healthy but like anything it’s not the whole story! I come from BFA days pushing keys things are better than they were!

[@cyntheticgaming]

It should only deplete if you’ve already spent more than 10mins in the dungeon. That way you can call it before cutoff if you think the group isn’t gonna cut it

[@mohamedalmuhairi324]

to fix it 1- remove 1 shot mechanics 2- more leaner timer for low-level keys 3- update the visual so the players can see the mechanics

[@jasonkwilliamson]

So make it easier

[@ramones1314]

wdym by remove one shot mechanics? have boss abilties just not exist or do no damage? that sounds terrible. i think people often forget that damage goes up in keys too, not just health. so its not a war of rounding up 7 packs and nuking it with full cooldowns to do it faster, but rather you WILL get brick walled at some point cuz thats exactly what forever scaling content is

[@hiddenwanderer2872]

Instead of oneshot mechanics, they should add extra abilities after a certain key level. Instead of having 3 mechs that oneshots per boss, put like 7 mechs that can overlap etc etc, and creates more trouble.

[@VDHmain]

In an infinitely scaling system, you will always reach a point where there are one-shot mechanics.

[@Abstrack05]

So remove anything that makes the content challenging? But don’t blame your self for refusing to learn what you need to do to complete the key. One shot mechanics are avoidable, use your personals, pops potions. I can see mechanics perfectly fine in my keys.

[@patricktratz4556]

8 10 12 get the depletion freeze?

[@moshnae1156]

They should honestly just make it so that if you have timed every single key at a certain level, your key can no longer drop below the level above that

[@gageracer]

This

[@lordshadow19]

Just make keys work like delve tiers work.

[@d4mephisto]

I think you are pretty spot on. The key depletion mechanic is the root of so many issues surrounding Mythic+, and it would be much better for the game for depletion to be retired as a concept.

[@Scott-r8f]

The screwed M,+ as soon as they did the squish...finished DF and haven't touched them since. They could have went at M+ a whole different way..close to just quitting the game because it has become so toxic.

[@jerryassarsson9584]

This. Exactly this. The squish is the problem.

[@cristisibiseni]

yup. gotta agree with ya! it's the simple solution, and that ban shouln't even be needed after key depletion is gone, because you can practice and push your team over and over again until you time it, or replace the weakest player, or lower the key at npc and get an easier time. i'm at 620 ilvl with 2550 pugged score, needing one more portal, but after that i think i'd rather get another tank to KSH, and maybe a healer afterwards - instead of pushing +12. by the way - whats the ilvl required for +12s??? 🤔😅

[@zachemorgan]

they created this probelm by adding more time loss per death don't blame the players blame blizz

[@madhudson1]

Keys should have a charge system of possibly 3 before depletion.

[@mohamedalmuhairi324]

5:48 Stop the timer if one player drops and let it restart as they get a new player and attack /aggro mobs/ boss this will fix a lot of the runs * The leader can't remove any player after the runs Starts

[@caiocesar7526]

Hello friend, good video. Which addon do you use to show the stats in the bottom left corner? Crit, haste, mastery?

[@yungelix]

My opinion, If you time the key, keep it how it is, You don’t time the key but complete leave it the same key with option to change for another key same level, Don’t complete, go down a level

[@jasonkwilliamson]

They are super unrewarding too tho. Like what’s the point of pushing past mythic gear? 15, 18 - it’s just ego? Give us something - loot boxes with random gear that cannot be obtained

[@ryanmonteith5890]

The best fix is you can sign up for as many keys as you want When you leave a key without the group abandoning then you are limited to signing for 2 keys for 1 hour The problem with sitting in lfg for an hour is you can only sign for 5 keys

[@chiefputty]

Why is the key "over" after the first wipe? Challenger's Peril. This needs to go too. Just too toxic for the way M+ plays. I feel removing Challenger's Peril would also help with the leaving problem.

[@snowballs2023]

Easy fix, Blizzard needs to get rid of the standard option making group. just keep completion, beat timer. Completion you stay, beat timer you stay or leave.

[@gageracer]

When someone leaves the group while you are in the group and dungeon if you right click report them you will see leaver as an option.

[@Impuracle]

Zuco suffering that perpetual cold 🤧🤫❄️

[@crixis887]

I haven't got to M+ yet. So what you are saying is there is no gear upgrade after +10?? I'm confused. Do you not get anything extra from your vault? Sorry I'm still new and learning. There must be something more than just bragging rights after +10 or no?

[@ZucoWoW]

@@crixis887 Nope, the best rewards you can get are from +10s... If you go higher then that, your rewards in the vault will be higher item level, but that's it. There isn't a higher reward track for doing a +12 (like going from Hero gear to mythic gear)... There isn't a gear level beyond that, so you'll end up getting the same mythic gear in your vault as you would from +10s, just at a slightly higher ilvl.

[@iulianhodorog9979]

Or maybe just set 3 timers: gold, silver and bronze. Punish leavers account wide, but make staying worthwhile even after the timer is off the table.

[@YumYum820]

Get rid of Key depletion and make Mythic Plus easier. The high key players will still be high players but then everyone has a bit more fun

[@jerryassarsson9584]

Just revert the squish and the problem is fixed. That's the problem.

[@FatkidIRL]

leave the key depletion, just reduce everything in the dungeons by 2 to 5%

[@domino-1993]

they also need too tune them better for the majority of the player base basically every one i know that played in dragonflight that did 10s 11s in season 4 cant do 7s 8s including me i can just barley do 8s and the dungeon pool next season yeah if its tuned like this some of those dungeons are gonna be realy realy bad

[@Ricozayyy]

ppl would leave more if key wont deplete tbh. as a key holder if I have a slight feeling of failing to time it, I will probably just leave and re try again with a new group.

[@Ryuki19n]

I agree. In a perfect world people would stick it out but we all know people would just leave and run it back with a new group.

[@realBarny]

People would leave more YES, but the sting to the key holder wouldn't ruin his whole week. It simply would require 5 minutes finding a new person. If blizzard is smart, they'd expand on the system and allow reforming a group inside the dungeon. But they won't, because they're stingy, lazy, and stupid.

[@ramones1314]

especially with the option to downgrade keys existing, its like ok, maybe you realize a 12 is too much so you drop it on your own. but if you got it to 12 then you should be allowed to bash your head against that 12 all you want lmao

[@bengoldsworthy10]

I definitely agree with everything you said in this video. Imagine if you're trying to do a mythic raid boss and you wipe so the game forces you to go back and do the heroic version before you can attempt the mythic version again. It wouldn't make any sense. I think there are already enough punishments for not timing a key. You: -Don't upgrade it -Don't get all the crests -Don't get to change your keystone to another dungeon Even if people did leave at the same rate they are now, so what? that would be the same as it is now. You'd only see other benefits. Imagine you're with a guild group and having the ability to learn the key without penalty and all the benefits that would bring. You could practice the opening pull over and over. Or maybe it's the second boss that is giving you problems so you lazily pull your way through the first boss and focus on the second. Then when it's feeling good, you run it all back and try the whole thing. To time dungeons at high level demands near perfection and it is exceedingly punishing to deplete the key forcing you to do say a +11 to get it back to +12 or find another group. I think that it's great that M+ can be challenging like mythic raid is. Mythic raid requires many attempts. Sometimes hundreds and hundreds of attempts. Like I said, imagine that mythic raid made you "deplete" your difficulty when you wiped. It would be stupid and no one would play the game.

[@MrCarlWax]

Raids and dungeons arent the same. Kinda irrelevant. What you've described sounds like pug hell. People kicking the weak link over and over until they get the perfect group, redoing the first pull to get a perfect pull. The key owner deliberatly dying just to force a restart. Absolutely awful

[@bengoldsworthy10]

@@MrCarlWax I can see your point to some extent about raids. I also just feel like what's happening now isn't that ideal either though. I don't think it's pugging bliss as things stand now. Also...how is that totally different than what's happening now? I feel like people are essentially "kicking the weak link" now, it's just an extremely slow process that makes it not "feel" like that's what is happening. If you start a key and find out one of the members is awful, what happens? Usually it means a complete disband and finding all new group members instead of just one. And if it was your key, you have to find a different person's key if you want to do it at that level. Or do yours at a lower level and push it up. Seems like a waste of time. In higher M+ especially, you kind of need perfect pulls, so I don't see the problem with starting over. If you don't get pretty good pulls you're never going to time the key and people will just leave anyway. Then you start the big long process of finding a new group and key. I also would ask you how you would fix the problems that M+ is facing. Or do you see them as totally fine?

[@jacobpotter9714]

Maybe I am a filthy casual but I honestly wish they would just get rid of key depletion and the timer.

[@jacobpotter9714]

I just feel like the timer adds unnecessary toxicity to the game. I'd rather take my time and have fun with the homies while we try and tackle a really hard dungeon.

[@noxxic7731]

They need to fix the loot system to nobody wants run a dam 10 and still not get the trinkets or gear you need

[@whatthecrit]

I don't disagree with all of your points, but removing key depletion is not the solution you think it is. I promise you. People leave keys because they don't want to waste their own time--they are not going to stick around and re-run the same key after they've already decided that group is a waste of their time. I would not be surprised if it increased the amount of leaving because there's no social pressure to try to time the key so it doesn't deplete. Mythic plus content is not for everyone. If it is such a horrible experience then you should do some self reflection on if it's content that is for you.

[@YumYum820]

...Or just rid of m+ entirely and have dungeons be preraid content only like it used to be...

[@whatthecrit]

@@YumYum820 Or just participate in content you enjoy and stop stressing out trying to enjoy content that you don't enjoy. Why do we have to wipe to a raid boss 200+ times, that's such a dumb system and I hate it. Blizzard can just give us a buff every time we wipe so it takes max 30 wipes.

[@Cebririth]

It should work like in LoL! U get a penalty for it! And players csn report u at any time or at the end!

[@txdmsk]

Ever since the "leaver will get banned scare" people in my high keys just go afk or offline. Just now I ran a +10 Arakara on my alt, and we had a healer (with 2800+ boosted score) that kept dying to the last boss over and over again... So he just went offline after the nth wipe. Who would have guessed this would happen... ME! THAT'S WHO. Certainly not blizzard's incompetent sh:tsta/n developers and designers.

[@MrVaeron]

Well, just report them. If there is a pattern, they will be banned. They clearly are stating in that Blue Post, that this behaviour covers everything from leaving, DCing and grieving in general. So if enough players report those people, they will be suspended. And tbh, it does not matter if you have a bad internet or do it on purpose. If you network is not reliable, you should not be doing stuff with random people that expect 99% uptime. And if you still do, you are ignoring that and should be removed from the system nonethelss.

[@txdmsk]

@@MrVaeron No, I'm sure the blizzard announcement was mainly to appease the masses "Hah, that guy left, but he will get banned, ha!". But in reality I doubt that blizzard devised a delicate algorithm to catch bad actors. If anything, they queried the top 0.01% most notorious leavers and gave them a week timeout. That will still not solve M+ problems.

[@christmasham4312]

i did all 11s and quit. playing classic now

[@txdmsk]

The key depletion is just one of the many faulty design choices with M+. It would be easy to fix for someone with high aykyuu and creativity. I would fix this whole mess in a couple of days and make M+ a fun, pro-social experience. Blizzard? It took them 20 years to come up with account-wide currencies and they still managed to botch that. Not gonna happen.

[@ericmats4662]

people is just gonna do crazy first pulls over and over then

[@LodvarDude]

Nuke the timer too.

[@rafaellontra2189]

nah that would make it boring

[@lordshadow19]

Just make mythic+ keys work like delves

[@Hulkaholic87]

I don't enjoy spending 30-40 mins to get into a key then 35-45 to only get 5 crest and that 3 more times... there goes most of my day for 20 crests instead of 48... yeah get rid of the crests reduction and I'd be less pissed.

[@絶句-法律]

im pretty sure they didn't ban anyone and this is just a placebo "fix" to all of this. and they wont even think about deleting the timer it would not make any sense, they might aswell give everyone free myth gear and call it a day. m+ always been like this its not new or anything.. and doing mdi pulls and dying its the player fault and thats it. the only thing i agree is the dungeons being so ass and needing interrupts every single time.

[@MysteryMan159]

On top of not depleting keys, you also need a penalty. They should allow you to leave 1 key without being penalized per day. The penalty is a reduction in your m+ score and if it drops below 2000 you lose your achievement. Also. Your ilvl of vault loot will be reduced by a few key levels and you then need to complete keys to undo the curse. This will encourage you to not leave keys or else you tank your score. Or tank your rewards. Then it works sort of like a “don’t be an asshole “ arena score.

[@noxxic7731]

Run s dun 10 times farming a trinket

[@MrCarlWax]

All these videos from different youtubers have shown me that devs knows far more than people give them credit for. If you remove key depletion thinking you'll remove the reason to leave, you are gonna be incredibly dissapointed. You will have people doing mdi pulls over and over until you get it right. Constantly kicking the weak link until you get the perfect group for you key. People leaving left and right to find a better group who can pull it off. And if you think that this will not affect the lower keys then you havent been paying attention. It will affect them just how meta comps does. Even more so because it matters more than meta in low keys. It will also make the meta more enforced than ever.

[@LeoSpaceman2012]

So are you saying as long as you get into a run and finish it you get all the io, all the crests, and three pieces of gear, and a key for one higher level mythic? Even if it took the group an hour and they had 75 deaths? If that's not what you are saying, then please better define your terms. What do you mean by Key depletion?

[@angrykagg421]

Why is blizzard allowed to make this decision on their own? I can report someone for an “inappropriate” name but I can’t report the fool that just tanked the key five minutes in?? Let players self govern. Yes there is always going to be those who abuse this system, but it is far better than blizzard putting a bot on the job who just starts banning folks because they “left too many keys today”. It is telling I can report people using naughty words but I can’t report people for actively ruining my experience.

[@Yippaah]

The reason people leave is because blizzard made a shitty system. Nobody wanna play a game and feel like they're wasting their time

[@TheMisleduser]

How about they just give people a better reason to stay if the key is not timed. 40 something gold is not a attractive reward. Although I could give a crap about some arbitrary number like io so I don't really leave keys. Also I'd say remove the keys entirely. Just let people with appropriate experience queue for whatever dungeon and level they choose.

[@realBarny]

How will they punish the players leaving the game, Will they remove depletes?.. no. Will they reduce the penalties to non-timed keys?.. no. Will they fix tank survivability? no. Will they re-introduce loot to mythic+?.. no. Will they stop relying on dumb gamey affixes and start making the dungeons themselves evergreen and fun?.. no. Will they reduce the grind to be manageable within the seasonal 22 week cadence so you can finish your character?.. no. Guys, I think it's over. Made my point, at least PoE2 is on the horizon.

[@Abstrack05]

Why would you want to waste your time in a failed group who doesn’t know mechanics or don’t kick no matter how much you explain to them what they need to do? It shouldn’t be anyone’s job in a +10 key to explain a mechanics, or what needs to be kicked or cc for us to succeed. Learn the game it shouldn’t be easy and no one should be forced to play with a group of people who dont know what needs to be done for key succession

[@Daniel06268]

Just remove the timer.

[@komxela1]

Just make it easier ffs lol

[@Kryptonianeren]

I play 4-10 keys. would like to see something like proving ground coming back, the amount of players that dont know there class cant dps or interrupt is crazy this season. players whit 0 interrupts and dps below the tank even when they have better gear is not uncommon to see.

[@ryanmonteith5890]

No depletes is the most awful system ever made. Do I want to be stuck in key with a disc priest who doesn’t press radiance or a enhance shaman not pressing his defensive Some players are bad and that’s why you leave groups because they aren’t at your skill level or you perceived skill level

[@Synthatic]

The end of key depletion would help a lot. Another thing that would help: Any player who leaves a key first, while the timer is still going, or remains offline for 5 minutes first, while the timer is still going, gets an account wide deserter debuff for 24 hours. Add the feature that a party member can vote to end the key early, if a majority of the group votes to end early, no leavers gets the deserter debuff. This will encourage people to stay, even in "bricked keys". A lot of people at the lower level of play don't care about pushing into 12's. They just want to complete their 10's for weekly vault slots, but are griefed by people who leave the moment they die, or alt F4 to fake a DC.

[@Ellinov]

Or hear me out, deserting a keystone dungeon gives you a “Community Service” rebuff that can only be removed by completing 5 random (heroic or normal) dungeons !

[@Synthatic]

@Ellinov if it's just a debuff that floats on you forever, it won't do anything preventative. Now if it made you -only- able to do that, (include all current lfr bosses) I'd be down for it.

[@ryanmonteith5890]

No depletes is the most awful system ever made. Do I want to be stuck in key with a disc priest who doesn’t press radiance or a enhance shaman not pressing his defensive Some players are bad and that’s why you leave groups because they aren’t at your skill level or you perceived skill level No one in pugs is there learning how to use defensives or use cooldowns Nothing in the game teaches them to use defensives, without looking at details or logs you don’t know why you died and no one has time for that

[@ryanmonteith5890]

Easier to just go next and hope the next healer has a clue what to do

[@jkenn8973]

Youre spreading bad info on builds man lol. i guess as ele it doesnt matter as much

[@ZucoWoW]

@@jkenn8973 Lol I'm not. Thanks for your 2-cents though... The build I'm running works great and I've done every key on a +12 now... Lots of people have copied the build and it's helped them get KSM. The build is fine.