This ONE DETAIL about TORRENT reveals the timeline | Elden Ring Lore

[@Dioptase26]

Tbh that’s prolly why Leda immediately assumes we were guided by Miquella. I like this idea.

[@SilverMooney]

That is a great point!

[@fenixchief7]

Yeah, because I always come rocking up into Mohg's arena on Torrent... no, she just arrogantly assumes that only those guided by Miquella could find him, which actually is a fair assumption given its locale.

[@muramasa870]

I wish we could break the 4th wall in the DLC and say to the NPCs: THIS IS FROMSOFT GAME, GUYS! You gonna die by my hands at the end, damn!

[@Writh811]

I think Leda thought we were guided by Miquella because she was sent to kill Mohg only to find we had already done it. So she assumed we were also sent by Miquella. She sends us ahead so she can collect Mohg's corpse (explaining when/how they got that) and likely all the credit, given her personality.

[@Hugo_Tate]

But how would she know we had torrent if we didn’t ride in on him when we met her or anything

[@TheScrootch]

Torrent is the Gloam Eyed Queen

[@killablue1279]

RADAGON IS TORRENT

[@EldestCoont]

@@killablue1279 Marika is 'Murica

[@AzazelHash281]

Maliketh is my dog!

[@killablue1279]

@@EldestCoont MOHG IS MADARA

[@schpeidermann]

@@killablue1279 Madara is Guts.

[@shadowpelican1]

The nascent butterfly also looks exactly like the falling St Trina from the DLC trailer.

[@SilverMooney]

It kind of does!

[@Greaseball01]

Don't know if you noticed this but there's also at least one animal in the specimen storehouse that appears to be a bigger torrent / spectral steed

[@alithea8657]

YES I NOTICED THIS ASNWELL

[@killablue1279]

ULTIMATE CRUCIBLE TORRENT

[@tanjastrau5925]

Oh I did not notice that at all but you are absolutely right!

[@NeedsContent]

Have you noticed that everything to do with death (prior to the Erdtree) has an oceanic theme? The 'mariners' as spirit guides, the lingering spirits around graveyards turning into jellyfish, the spirit eels in the DLC. Things turning into oceanic creatures also explains why Godwyn turned into a giant mermaid, which always confused me before.

[@anotsodandyguyontheinterne6775]

an there is also the big groups of undead that you can find wandering in the beaches, as if they are trying to return to the sea.

[@shirokun002]

All thing become crab

[@dullahandan4067]

​@@anotsodandyguyontheinterne6775 I do not think those are undead because they do not resurrect upon death and holy damage does not disintegrate them. I had assumed they were remnants of the long march when the tarnished first left the lands between. Maybe non tarnished family or friends left behind waiting for the tarnished to return but decayed into madness before they came back.

[@tanjastrau5925]

there is a theory of "The Tarnished Archeologist" I think which links this to Japanese culture, where standing waters symbolize rot and decay (both literally and figuratively).

[@JackisaMimic]

Loved the video! I have theorized very similarly on my own, that Torrent chose our Tarnished specifically because Miquella chose us. It’s actually what my whole channel is secretly about! Here’s some evidence you missed: In the base game Nascent Butterflies are located in the Chapel of Anticipation, but they are only accessible if you use the Belfry Tower or defeat the Grated Scion. They are located amongst a grave grouping, and above ground that breaks away when you walk on it. The ones at the graves teach you that you can pick up the butterflies to condition you to walk to the next set of butterflies and fall to your death. Thus, your tarnished washes up on the Stranded Graves no matter what and your lead to Torrent The second piece of evidence is found if you give Sir Moore 6 Foorager Cookbooks. He rewards you with Cookbook 7 that has two recipes: Spirit Raisins for Torrent and Miquella’s Charming Branch. Thus we have in game item confirmation between Torrent and Miquella in the Land of Shadow before the start of the game

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you for your lovely comment! These are are also great points connecting Miquella to Torrent!

[@fenixchief7]

Yet we are the ones to defeat him... St. Trina maybe, but not Miquella.

[@SIRslipperyasp91]

Nice theory, as always, Jack, but Miquella is obviously at odds with Marika, who is the one guiding us with Grace. Melina, who is working for her mother, appears to grant us Torrent at a site of grace. Ranni gives us three wolves at the request of torrent's former owner. Maliketh's boss room has a statue of three wolves around a young women. Torrent and the wolves are boons to aid us in our journey. Our journey is to become Marika's new Elden Lord, this involves defeating Radagon the prior Elden Lord, as well as Miquella and his consort. In four of the six endings Marika remains the God of the golden Order, Melina who is Marika's agent argues against pursing one of the remaining two endings, the other has Ranni who acted on Marika's behalf by giving you the spirit calling bell and wolves becomes the new God succeeding Marika. When we finally meet Miquella he treats us as an adversary, we're the would be lord of the old order, a misguided tarnished who needs to be compelled into compliance or killed. All this evidence makes me conclude that torrent used to belong to Marika, and that we've always been actively working against Miquella on the orders of Marika.

[@Thrasher-92]

​@@SIRslipperyasp91excellent...solid arguments and not a fanfic lore...at least some inteligent guy...

[@Writh811]

As much as I believed Miquella was Torrent's old master after that promo image I don't these days. The DLC has, in my opinion, laid Miquella bare. He doesn't act in this furtive or Machiavellian manner. Miquella is very direct and that tracks because he has the power to subvert the will of others. You don't need to hide and sneak and plot when you can walk in a room and tell everyone they love you and they just believe it. Through meeting his followers in the DLC we see he'll just enslave you if you don't fall in line. Miquella is too young to be the statue in Farum Azula. Farum Azula was ruins before the era of the Hornsent. If that statue was him, it would make him older than his mother. Since we know Marika rose to power during the era of the Tower (Hornsent) which then transitioned into the era of the Erdtree (Godfrey) and then the Era of the Golden Order (Radagon). Torrent's former master, the former owner of the Spirit calling bell in my opinion is Marika. In all this eagerness to prop Miquella up as a prodigy we ignore a simple truth laid out in the DLC: Shaman had a powerful connection to the spirits. Both of these tools pertain to communing with spirits. The spirit calling bell's design is very Hornsent Crucible era in nature. The bell handle has two spirals that make it up ending in the tri-leaf found at the top of Hornsent tree imagery. This now makes me assume this bell is old, perhaps from that era. Then the whole thing is made silver without a trace of gold (Miquella's known crafting material). Speaking to Torrent's motivations and such: Torrent at the beginning of the game is looking for someone who wants to become Elden Lord. As a matter of fact we can beat the game without ever going near Radahn or Mohg. Of course one might say "But Melina say it violates the Golden Order" You are right she does say it violates the Golden Order but Marika has rejected the Golden Order, thus why she taunts Radagon by calling him a "leal hound of the Golden Order." A new Elden Lord means the end of the Golden Order as we install whatever order we see fit. We also know that since the Greater Will was gone before Marika even got on the scene (Ymir's rantings) that it was Marika herself who restored us and brought us to the Lands Between. Marika has been guiding us this whole time not the Greater Will. We also know that we have to take Melina, who has Torrent, back to the Erdtree for further orders from her Mother, Marika. Another link between the Spirit Horse and the Shaman: A lot of folks think the Coffin ships are how the shaman/numen arrived. At the bow of these ships is a bull that everyone identifies with the bulls depicted in the old Uhl reliefs. But I see something different. Rather than a bull on the bow, I see spirit horses. Given these ships have a connection to the death why wouldn't they put the likeness of a creature like the spirit horse on the bow. A fast moving creature that moves between life and death. So to sum up: I think Marika put ghost Melina on Torrent and sent them out into the land while grace was extended to us. Melina was told to find someone like us and come back for further instruction. Which leads us to Leyndell and afterwards the Mountain tops. I have no idea how or why Ranni has the bell nor why she would give it to us. It honestly just felt like they didn't want Melina dumping a bunch of mechanics in our inventory at once and they wanted to have an early chance to introduce us to the actual face of the game. I realize that logic fails when it comes to deciphering the lore but honestly there is noone the bell could belong to that Ranni would just give it to us for riding Torrent. Narratively it doesn't track with any of the info available to us.

[@MisterK9739]

100% agree. Many players are putting way too much emphasis on Miquella (who does not play a major role in the main story) and way too little on Marika. SHE shattered the Elden Ring, SHE revived the Tarnished, SHE wants the Tarnished to slaughter the crazed demigods and end the Golden Order

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you for your in depth comment! You have a lot of good points!

[@mdoule]

Ranni could have that bell from Marika, as Radagon = Marika. So those could be items he left behind when he left Rennala.

[@Writh811]

@@mdoule Yeah, I definitely think the bell was Marika's but it gets confusing when we take Ranni's words into account. She pretty much says the person who gave her the bell told her to give it to Torrent's new master. It would have to be Marika because she would want Torrent's candidate to have every advantage. Radagon definitely would not want us to have it as we represent the end of his order. But it's kinda weird trying to logic out the events of Marika finding Ranni explaining the bell and how she wants her to give it a certain person at a certain time. She and Marika have no written lore together, heck she and Radagon have no written lore together (leads me to think these days that Ranni was the youngest of her siblings. Her dad didn't even get her a job in the Golden Order, imply to me a lack of a relationship.)

[@tanjastrau5925]

I don't think Miquella ordering Ranni to give the Spirit Calling Bell to the player is necessarily an act of manipulation. If Miquella is incapacitated because of his transition to bodylessness/godhood in the shadow realm, he might just need a courier. Also, the ability to charm people might not require manipulation but it does not rule it out either. Miquella can still do both. Maybe because some people are resistant to his powers. Maybe because he cannot be sure if someone else has the ability to un-charm the people he influenced. Him giving us a buff item is not particularly sneaky anyways. We are already set on the path to kill the Demigods at this point. Our respective goals at this point do not really conflict with each other. So it makes sense to just help us. We are both trying to fix the Lands Between. It's only Radahn becoming the new consort of Miquella instead of us. And that is something we might not necessarily want to fight over with Miquella, as we are only told to become Elden Lord so this position is filled again and order restored and we could be fine with someone else doing that for us.

[@darkestwilightt]

Radahn holding back the stars stopped Miquella's fate as well as Ranni's. Remember the fate of the golden order and Carian Royal family was conjoined when Radagon married Renalla

[@joels5150]

I thought Torrents’ secret is that he is the reincarnation of Lil’ Sebastian from Parks and Rec 🤔

[@Unstr_essedElden]

So glad someone's covering this. Been trying to find people talking about the connection between Torrent and the ancestral spirit creature, but I could never find anyone, so thank you so much.

[@eren__morwen5947]

I love the small channels and how the delve into details weve never heard about even though the game is 2 years old Magnificent work

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you!

[@ETBrooD]

Melina is a spirit, but Ranni is not a spirit. Ranni is bodiless because she didn't die a true death. To appear physically in front of others she occupies the body of a doll, because she's a witch who can do that kind of thing (just like Sellen). Spirits remain after a true death, and we don't know exactly how that works. Perhaps they linger until they're reborn.

[@tileux]

With the rune of death sealed away, spirits enter the erdtree, where marika can choose to rebirth them. Only when the rune of death is released do spirits die and cannot be reborn via the erdtree. Which is why godwyn’s spirit died and he isnt reborn.

[@big_manny]

tbh i woulda assumed the spirit calling bell belonged to St Trina, Miquella’s other half, since the ring is unalloyed gold, relating to miquella, and the bell sorta has the same vibe/aesthetic as the Nascent butterfly/tibia mariners, both having to do with St Trina. That way both items given to you are both related to both of Miquellas halves in a sorta more satisfying narrative kinda way

[@SilverMooney]

That is a good point!

[@knightofcandles]

There an additional connection here, "Renna" also gives us the "Lone Wolf Ashes" which summons three wolves!

[@PopPhyzzle]

It's speculated that the 3 spirit wolves were Marika's guardians based on the statues in the game.

[@ToadimusPrime]

The child statue with the 3 wolfs in Farum Azula is most likely Marika, based on context clues from the DLC. It's long been speculated that Marika played a part in Ranni's plan, but that Ranni betrayed her, killing Godwyn. And from Hewg, we know Marika was in tune with the spirits just like Roderika. In fact, Roderika very much reminds him of Marika because of it. Torrent is an ancestral spirit, and if he's from the Nox area of the game, it makes sense that he belonged to Marika, because she was Numen. Numen/Nox/Shaman are different names for the same civilization. And she left the whistle to her daughter Melina, to give to a Tarnished of Torrent's choosing, and the bell to Ranni. After all, Ranni needs a chosen Tarnished to kill Radahn, so her fate can move forward. So why not give aid by giving us Marika's bell. After all, Torrent chose US. You're right about a lot here, I'd just replace "Miquella" with "Marika". She's had the biggest part in the Shattering, and she gave the Tarnished clear instructions. Her fading grace is what leads us through the Lands Between, to kill her offspring and slay a God. It only makes sense she'd help us along the way. She did so by sending her kindling daughter to aid us, give us a spirit from the Nox homeland, and a tool to summon other spirits to aid us.

[@gravekpr]

Loved the video, I can see how much work were put into it, and it's great! I like how everything is nicely split into chapters. :)

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you so much!

[@dksu]

The observation that Torrent is a young Ancestral Spirit is a first I think - great job!

[@ripvanwinkle3432]

The 3 wolves statue is Marika. Where is the statue, what is right above it? Also the asset ID of that item calls it Marika.

[@SilverMooney]

Thanks for the comment!

[@UltraStarWarsFanatic]

Those asset names are assigned by the modders who extracted them from the game, not the developers.

[@ripvanwinkle3432]

OK even ignoring that. It's a statue of a child with the runes of the old order above it. In Farum Azula and Malekith's boss room, it paints a pretty clear picture of who it is depicting.

[@Haden475]

wonderful connection making. i wondered prior to the dlc if miquella was plotting our path and this makes complete sense. miquella and ranni have shared interest in radahn dying and melina either way needs a suitable tarnished to take her to the erdtree. our tarnished is able to become a lord because of this conspiracy. in the end it's torrent that chooses us however (even if you decide to do a maidenless run), the three somehow recognize that torrent has this uncanny ability, probably because he is an ancestral spirit as you pointed out.

[@TheProfanedSamurai]

Great video and analysis. I’ve come to think that torrent chose us to help us become Elden lord, was part of miquella’s plan all along, and Melina agreed with it, because she felt it was meant for her to burn the tree.

[@dutchblazewell6289]

I love this theory! It works nicely for Torrents origins. Keep it up! Nice work

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you so much!

[@IrisDImtv]

Nice theory

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you!

[@BigBadWolframio]

Inside the Specimen Storehose there are two skeletal remains that look exactly like Torrent, but bigger. Their horns are like Torrents, they don't have the extra buddings of the Ancestral Spirit. 😊

[@dramoka1201]

There is one item description that contradict this theory : the wolves spirit ashes. "Spirits of wolves chased from their pack. They later encountered a nameless Tarnished, who welcomed them as hunting companions. The wolf spirits overwhelm enemies with their agility, aiding the summoner in combat." This nameless tarnished mentioned is the former master of Torrent, as said by Ranni when you encounter her in the first church. That's actually the only factual info we have on him. Besides, and i haven't watched the whole video, but unalloyed gold has a specific tint to it, that the ring doesn't have. Its a less saturated gold, and the ring seems to have a color closer to the tree sentinel armor, for example.

[@RavignonCh]

The three wolves statue in Farum Azula being a monument to Miquella never occured to me. That's a brilliant connection.

[@whoisj]

I love your voice. it's so soothing. with interesting content, you make prefect content to wind down before bed with.

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you! Happy to hear that!

[@zeidrichthorene]

"Gold would have melted, but this unalloyed gold would be something different?" Unalloyed means pure gold, and pure gold melts more easily than gold alloys. "Miquella is cursed with eternal youth, or nascence" Not really, nascence is more the state of just being born. Eternal youth might be something like Juvenescense. But the word nascence literally means becoming born. This is probably a reference to the nascent butterfly, which is the white color butterfly, the color of spirits, and people often relate that butterfly with Miquella because of miquella's eternal youth, but I don't think this is related. Miquella is gold, not white, and his property is eternal youth, in contrast to decay, which was split off into his twin, Malenia. There's a force that is not really tied to any of the known demigods, and that is spirit, the color of this is white, it is represented in the nascent butterflies, in the ash of spirits, in the pure white light of the godslaying flame, the white of the somber smithing stones. It's the realm of the grave stones, of spirits, of the spirit graves. It is dispassionate, it is cold, it is empty, it is life, and strength, but without passion or will. It's fundamental. It's the realm of the summoning stakes. You know the icon that shows up when you can summon that looks like a tombstone with writing on it, this is a symbol of it. The white skull-like growths on the walking mausoleums, this is that mixed with darkness/death. Meanwhile, this is related to Torrent, but not directly. Torrent poofs out in blue sparks, not white. This is more the color of the ancestral beasts, and it's more of a celestial spirit. Whereas the white is more fundamental. You mention this, but torrent not growing to adulthood is a real stretch, he looks adult, just because he's smaller than the ancestral spirits. Also, spirits don't necessarily grow and age. The ancestral spirits are accompanied by a literal corpse in both of the temples, they are the spirit energy from a physical beast. The ancestral spirit energy is a kind of life force that is reincarnated into other spirits, and you can see this in both the description of the ancestral spirits and worshippers, and also the moves of the ancestral spirits. But this just means that torrent is the spirit of some beast of the crucible that was originally inhabited by ancestral spirit energy. But moreover, this means that with torrent's whistle, we are calling the spirit of a deceased beast that has not reincarnated like other ancestral beasts would. I think that's interesting. But also, consider that both the whistle and the spirit calling bell are calling spirits with sound, in different ways, and with different colors. Now, while Miquella is associated with unalloyed gold, it's always specifically unalloyed gold. This is actually quite meaningful, because it represents hope, compassion, good, but the fact that it is unalloyed represents the concept that it has discarded all of the rational and grounded elements. This is a common theme, of silver and gold. Silver or white represents dispassion, a kind of cold rationality, disbelief, logic, truth. Gold represents faith, hope, dreams, passion, warmth. Marika's goal with the golden order was to create a world of gold, by separating out the impurities. Radagon discovered that for stability, gold needed to be tempered by silver, this is why he studies sorceries, this is the tension represented in game between intellect and faith, and why radagon's golden order fundamentalism requires both. The spells aren't good, they are symbolic. And Marika's golden order is consistently alloyed for stability, as this was necessary. Miquella's unalloyed gold is not stable, it is a world entirely of compassion, kindness, hope, dreams, faith, and it literally can't stand up to reality. This is why Miquella has to discard his entire being, and even the remains of his great rune as a way to perfectly purify this spirit unalloyed gold. It can only exist in the mind, in the dreams and hopes. This is why Miquella commands people through these dreams of a perfect united whole. But the reality is that his ideal can't exist against the reality of being, this is why his goal is to take a thousand year voyage, to leave reality behind to live in this imagined perfect ideal world. This lack of stability is also why things like his gold needle can not work. It can work in the realm of Placidusax, but only because this removes time from the equation, and without time, the regression fundamental to the universe can't cause the unalloyed gold to fail. In fact, the opposite to Miquella's gold is the white of spirit. It is that dispassionate, rational, unthinking, cold truth of life without will. The origins of the spirit calling bell. But the origin of the whistle I would say is much more like Marika's gold. And Marika could have had a counterpart that embodied this opposing side. Whether this be the gloam eyed queen, or the base serpent, or whatever the body was that she drew the runes from at the divine gate in the intro to the DLC, I think this would be that. I would think that actually Marika is the one who was torrent's former master. And I think we make the connection to Miquella because we see him in the DLC promo material on torrent. But I would ask if that is even Miquella. I think that the images of riding Torrent in the shadow realm were actually when Torrent was still a living beast. And it could even have been Marika who was actually riding torrent. W e haven't seen Marika as a child, but we know she had gold hair. When she creates Miquella, he is an Empyrean, a potential host to godhood, a complete being, and he is many aspected, containing within himself St. Trina, a masculinity and a femininity in the same way that Marika hosted many aspects before divesting them. If Miquella is a complete being, and essentially a clone of Marika, created entirely of Marika and Radagon (more Marika), wouldn't it stand to reason that Marika as a child would look like Miquella? Similarly, in the images of Miquella on Torrent, there's no evidence of the scadutree. This could be even before the erdtree. But I can see a situation where Marika and her counterpart did come into a situation where they had to confront death, and a way for her counterpart to do this was through spirit calling, through waking the fundamental hollow spirits which remained in the ashes of the dead burned by ghostflame. But maybe Marika instead tried a gentler approach of calling a still living spirit through the whistle. In fact, the whistle is closer to the kind of calling you do for puppets, which are a bluer hue, which are living but suppressed beings, versus spirit ashes, which are the echoes remaining of the fundamental essence of a creature who is otherwise entirely extinguished.

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you so much for you in depth comment! You bring up a lot of good points!

[@VoidTower_]

This was a great video! I almost wonder if Torrent left Miquella to find us on his own.

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you! It's possible!

[@beetroot_chutney]

"In Norse mythology, four stags or harts (male red deer) eat among the branches of the world tree Yggdrasill. According to the Poetic Edda, the stags crane their necks upward to chomp at the branches. The morning dew gathers in their horns and forms the rivers of the world." - Wikipedia. Could it be that the spirit stags are the sources of the Siofra and Ainsel? I also think a lot of effort seems to have gone into protecting the water that seemingly feeds the roots of the Erdtree - Messmer's castle looks built to control and defend it. Perhaps Rauh originally controlled the source, but Mesmer usurped control over it.

[@BattlePants321]

The idea that the ring is unalloyed gold is also backed up by the fact that it survives the flame of frenzy where everything else (torrent included) was burned

[@BTFWayne]

Good shit. Keep uploading. I love lore videos that do more than read item descriptions.

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you so much!

[@silverknightly77]

What if Miquella abandoned Torrent, like they abandoned everything else. Torrent, like Trina, would have likely represented a favorite in his age of unbiased compassion. Any hypocrisy will despoil whatever order a god is creating. Maybe Torrent, like Trina, sought us out because he wanted Miquella to be stopped for his own sake.

[@SilverMooney]

That is a possibility!

[@maxwellfujs6124]

That is an awesome find with the double jump audio cue! That’s the best origin for Torrent that I can think of, other than some divine hornsent beast. So many things still left to discover.

[@feircy]

Has anyone tried bringing miquella's needle into the midra fight? Doubt it does anything but technically it reverses the flame of frenzy possession for us right

[@grimngruesome8988]

Ranni and Miauella both needed Radahn dead, so I can see how they would have come to some agreement. Maybe they've discussed their plans to each other in detail.

[@sk8legendz]

The age of stars and the age of compassion also sort of synchronize in a symbiotic way and that the age of stars would renew all traces of the old world Such as the elden ring and the golden order, which would allow for the age of compassion to take root in a clean soil

[@Hugo_Tate]

Did you record this while trying not to wake your parents up or something? Lol sounds like you’re whispering 😂 cool video!!

[@GexTendies]

interesting vid only thing that doesn't add up would be Ranni giving us the bell because she also needed Radahn dead, because she doesn't realize that until part way through her quest line

[@MisterK9739]

Agreed. I think it is as she said: she was simply instructed (by Torrents former master) to give us the Spirit Calling Bell. Originally I assumed that meant Melina. But then she could‘ve just given us the bell herself. So Miquella makes a surprising amount of sense

[@melkermagnusson5070]

Great video!👍

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you!

[@bloppyzefish6932]

I've never seen anyone mention this anywhere : Mind rotten Radahn howls towards the sky, we see that in a cutscene and Jerren says so... But why? My theory is he was trying to release the stars. But because he was so mind rotten he couldn't. The only times he howls and it has any effect is when he uses gravitas to pull us in. He never pushes us, he pulls us in when he howls. So maybe he was trying to do that but the range is too great for his scarlet rotten mind...

[@Otokage007]

I don't see how Miquella would trust Ranni after she killed his beloved brother. But great catch on Torrent origins. I am more inclined to Torrent's former master being Melina. After all, she is the one riding it before us. As to how Melina and Ranni would be colaborating, I think they both are long time allies and that Melina burned the Erdtree long ago so Ranni could get to Farum Azula and steal the rune of death. That would explain why the girl is "burned and bodiless", and why Leyndell is already covered in ash the first time we get there.

[@D_Max_HS]

Fantastic video! Hope KZbin pushes this to more people 👀

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it :)

[@TheEnkelchen]

Hi Silver Mooney, i thought long too that Torrent is a mix of different animals including goats. It take over two years that I realize that Torrent have a cow like mouth. After searching for wild cow races, i realize that his whole body could be of a cow - with golden imbeded horns (like the dragons) . So maybe a holy cow spirit ( i can`t stop thinking of Nandi - hinduistic mythology) - and what is that Rune like symbol over its mouth ? i have no idea what it could mean (if there is a meaning)

[@thenewsatinbobcat5575]

The only flaw in that theory is that in rannis' quest, you discover from selus that Radahn holds Ranni's fate at a standstill. If Ranni really did team up or partnered with Miquella to kill the rotted radahn, he would've done so upon that discovery, however, as mentioned Ranni gives us the bell at the start of the game before we ever find her at the carian manner and Miquella is in the land of shadows by then. I do think everything else is accurate, though. However, if that statue in Farume azula is Miquella, which I think it could be, why is it there? Why would Miquella's statue be there, who has very little to no connections to the ancient dragons, the beast men, or Maliketh?

[@EldenLord.]

Thats a great theory, makes perfect sense. I like to think that this is what actually was the plan now.

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you!

[@zoubaey3669]

got the 667. like. you cant summon miquella now

[@noahhodges7697]

This is an incredible theory and I love how well put together it is. It's videos like this that deepen my appreciation and immersion in an already amazing game

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you so much!

[@yukikhan3367]

I have a question for you! Looking into the gloam eyed queen theories, then torrent theories, then melina theories, mix some godwyn in there too with some old ancient dragon lore and I feel like maybe, just maybe, FromSoft have realised that they've just made the entire timeline a little too convoluted. Cause if you delve deep into one mysterious element and try to figure it out, all the other ones become a bit contradictory. What's your opinion on this? Do you think they have introduced us to a world that's a little too big even for them? Or do you think we are missing something hidden plain in sight, as if we are just not figuring out the right piece to put in the puzzle so that it all makes sense?

[@user-hs9jx6wj9d]

But Torrent's ring gets destroyed in the Lord of the Frienzied flame ending, why do you tells us, that it doesn't? Melina literally watches it disintegration in her palm, you just cut this scene, when that part starts

[@emaciatedFlower]

Doesn't happen if you burn erdtree and then adopt the frenzy flame

[@user-hs9jx6wj9d]

@@emaciatedFlower if melina burns the erd tree, you are getting locked out of Lord of Frenzy ending even if you get to Three fingers and get hugged by them. I'm talking about the true LOF ending, where you burn the Erd tree by yourself after meeting Three fingers, and this ending always shows the ring being destroyed in the cut scene

[@user-hs9jx6wj9d]

@@emaciatedFlower you cannot burn the Erd Tree by yourself BEFORE adopting the FF, that's literally impossible . There will always be an option of "talking to Melina", but AFTER you get to Three fingers, Melina leaves you forever, cos she cannot forgive us for this, and that's why we burn the Tree by ourselves. And we always see Torrent's ring being destroyed to ashes in the end.

[@emaciatedFlower]

@user-hs9jx6wj9d she dies if you burn the erdtree, then you go to 3 fingers, take the frenzy flame, remove the torrent and Melina scene from the end of the game

[@user-hs9jx6wj9d]

@@emaciatedFlower you cannot burn the Tree yourself, if you didn't hug the three fingers in the first place, do you understand that

[@Asterati]

Of course Miquella is guiding, or at least watching, you since the beginning. In the arena at the beginning where you fight the Grafted Scion, the butterflies over the trap area are nascent butterflies

[@FaeQueenCory]

Pretty sure Torrent is just one of the Hornsent's Divine Beasts as theres about 3 or 4 of them that look just like him in the Specimen Storeroom. Befriended and "tamed" by Miquella before the events of the game.

[@ravendelacour1917]

Miquella and Ranni are the Light and L of the Lands Between.

[@nathanlamberth7631]

that's sad when you family member helps you do something she doesn't agree with because she knows you're going to fail anyways

[@DakkaSap]

A point i just noticed: only melina, messmer, malenia, and miquella have associated butterflies. Its not from being an empyrean: ranni is listed as an empyrean but has no dark moon butterfly. It must be that only twins born to radagon and marika have an associated outer god, which manifests in butterflies across the lands between. Messmer has the abyssal serpent, melina the fell god, and malenia the rot god.... but who does miquella have? What outer god is associated with nascence?

[@GiraffeDGod]

I really enjoyed the video awesome work ! Miquella planning from the very beginning makes so much sense when you connect the spirit calling bell and the torrents whistle

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you so much! Yeah I really think he planned it from the beginning!

[@KaletheQuick]

I saw in another lore video, that Miquela being kidnapped was the impetus behind the shattering. Would that work with this?

[@kamantariq2513]

Why is it our Tarnished can perminitly kill demigods & unique foes. A lost nobles, never stays dead. But a godskin noble is gone forever. Our Tarnished like Torrent has some special powers relating to Death

[@deathandrebirth-y8x]

people stay dead when they lose grace. the erdtree or marika stripped then from grace i suppose.

[@kamantariq2513]

@@deathandrebirth-y8x so demigods & unique foes lost grace, but a wondering noble hasnt? That's why said noble won't stay dead? How does this explain dlc final boss? Is the grace of gold more powerful than a god?

[@deathandrebirth-y8x]

@@kamantariq2513 yes. its an alien from the stars. for example. i think horah loux wasnt even that strong. grace of gold just picked him up everytime he fell. thats why he was killed after he was banished.

[@kamantariq2513]

@@deathandrebirth-y8x you say the dude who melts rock by stomping his foot is weak? That is the definition of STRENGTH! For get All Might's wind pressure punches, this MF was TOO strong to controll! That's why he was banished.

[@deathandrebirth-y8x]

@@kamantariq2513 bloodthirsty is a better word. probably what got him killed. without grace to bail him out he was crucified

[@NubiBuiltKatchr]

Thank you for an excellent video. Your voice is a pleasure to listen to. I’d be willing to listen to you read a dictionary, but grateful you are instead speaking on a well considered analysis of Elden Ring lore! Looking forward to your next one!

[@SilverMooney]

Wow thank you so much! I’m excited to put out more Elden ring lore videos!

[@venrossx]

you know what.. i've been thinking... what if that "Renna" who give us the thing... is not RANNI but miquella or melina disguised as Renna since the puppet ranni made was in the looks of her? idk

[@venrossx]

I forgot to add that since ranni and miquella are NOT working together whoever disguised itself as renna had “old” info about it

[@ErickChaplin]

​@@venrossxthat doesn make sense because in the three sistwrs towers, ranni recognize us as the one who received de bell

[@venrossx]

@@ErickChaplin oh heah i forgot

[@lando2165]

I wonder if miq wanted the tarneshed to use a blood build. His butterfly uses the word arcane, 90% of bosses are week to bloodloss, the first person we meet uses bloodloss, and his quest leeds us to the lord of blood. Why so much blood 😭

[@CrazyBite2007]

lots of confusion possible with all those names that appear similar to each other. makes it possible to identify someone as someone else. confusion everywhere. kind of what they like to see, a confused tarnished. a tarnished that doesn't really know what to do next.

[@AndrewRyan9373]

Something i think about, in regards to Miquella, is i dont think he wanted to become a god, until after all his other plans failed. Maybe he thought he could only achieve what he wanted, was by becoming a god and following in his mothers footsteps. I think Ranni was selected to be the next god by the Two Fingers, and favoured over Miquella, because of his and his sisters afflicted curses. So in his past vision, where we hear him saying that he will become a god, on his own without finger support, (whom his charms probably had no effect on) we see him in a moment of last resort, which is why his voice sounds solemn.

[@SilverMooney]

That is a good point! I think originally since everything failed he thought godhood was the only thing that would fix everything, but it sent him down a dark path.

[@andrewvirtue5048]

Bruh its like miss chalice, but without the onlyFlans.

[@jamiekslog]

I like how everyone's just scheming about meanwhile we, the Tarnished, are just, "Right, time to kill everything and eveyone who I come across."

[@robocoontv3245]

I'm also doing Lore videos about Elden Ring but in german. Very good video thx for that. I must say, that I don't like this story plot. It doesn't really suit for Miquellas character. In his life it seems that everything is unfinished and he is not that clever as he thinks he is. It would have fit more when he had a view plan b's in the game. This master plan feels false that he put everything on the chosen tarnished coin. There are a lot off hints in the game. His butterflies for example at the starting point after that crafted spider boss or also in the sewers undercover Leyndell that shoul show us, that he was here to find Mohg. Besides that, it is a fantastic game and story but there is no need to put everything on the podium. Thx aga in for the video. I have subscribed and looking forward for future stuff off you

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you for your lovely comment and glad you enjoyed the video!

[@m-baka]

Great video

[@hellspawn22001]

Miquella reminds me of the kid in an episode of The Twilight Zone called “it’s a good life” a kid that wants everyone to think happy thoughts…..or else

[@SilverMooney]

Hahaha yes

[@GikamesShadow]

Im not too sure of the "Wants us to kill Radhan" part xD

[@heyguyslolGAMING]

Torrent is a drunk and a womanizer. This is why he constantly runs me off cliffs getting us both killed and why so many female goats randomly attack us.

[@cincameron]

Some aspects of this theory I disagree with or believe in a different order of things, but overall have a similar idea: 1) Minor point, but I think Miquella wanting Torrent to find us specifically means we had to have previous history that is privy to Miquella but no one else since we are "of no renown". I am personally hoping we get another dlc that could help explain this... Perhaps time-travel like AoTA from DS1. Otherwise Miquella/Trina giving us Torrent and the Spirit Calling Bell is a significant plot-hole. Before the dlc came out, i was hoping we'd get a 2nd dlc covering Farum Azula's fall, and how we were the one to wound Placidusax and cause his God to flee... That aged like milk, haha. 2) I believe Miquella's abduction at the hands of Mohg was unplanned. Mohg's items and rune imply he served the Formless Mother from even his time in the sewers and became the Lord of Blood intent on becoming Lord, but needing an Empyrean to do so. Ranni had not been seen since her death via ritual. Malenia is formidable and regarded as the "Undefeated Swordswoman" and was marching with her army to Caelid to face Radahn. The only option is Miquella, left poorly guarded and incapacitated within his Haligtree. Following the theme of "Nascence", Miquella intended on completing his Haligtree, but Mohg's actions rendered his plans incomplete. After being taken to Mohgwyn Palace, I believe this is when Miquella charmed Mohg, and Ansbach attempted to murder him afterwards--but was also charmed. Miquella had Mohg put him in a state where he could enter the Land of Shadow after the defeat of Radahn did not go as planned. And at some point, cast of St. Trina, who began appearing in dreams, trying to find someone to stop Miquella from ascending to Godhood. So I believe Mohg had his own plans before being charmed by Miquella. He was only tainted after the abduction. 3) I do believe Mohg orchestrated the Radahn festival on Miquella's behalf. Jerren is listed as a Bloody Finger if you kill him during Sellen's questline. Okina is also present--wielding Rivers of Blood by that stage, meaning he had already cut Mohg and was hired by him, lol. Jerren's goal was to lure powerful warriors to defeat the "mightiest demigod" and test their abilities, but in reality, we find out the goal is to have Radahn fall in battle (to complete the assumed vow between Miquella/Malenia and Radahn) and give him a new body. Obviously, Ranni's forces (the puppet and Blaidd) were there to free her fate from Radahn's power. 4) I agree that Miquella must have encountered Melina and Ranni within the Land of Shadow as they both are deeply involved with Destined Death and the Land of Shadow draws all forms of death. As for why they would help Miquella, we can only assume. They each have differing goals, but some of their paths align and would benefit from this. Melina wants to perish before the release of Destined Death (We see what she becomes at the very end if we become LoFF) and to find a Lord capable of restoring the Elden Ring to a more proper order. Ranni needs Radahn to die so she can meet her fate and she wants to establish a new order without the Elden Ring or Erdtree. Miquella wants to destroy the old order, and this requires Radahn to become his consort (after dying) and the Erdtree and Elden Ring being destroyed. Their paths align in various cases. I do think Miquella may have used his "charm" in a way to influence their decision, as that is not an impossibility. I actually think he did the same to Radagon when developing his earlier Golden Ring incantations because Radagon at that point had become a very knowledgeable being in both sorceries and incantations. and Miquella is the ONLY character Radagon is flat-out implied to have adored/loved or done anything for. 5) We do see nascent butterflies in the chapel of anticipation, but presumably by the time the game starts, St. Trina (and thus Miquella's curse) has been cast off, so I believe Trina is the one guiding us to Miquella--to kill him. Ranni and Melina likely knew this as well, like you said, and had nothing to fear for the coming age.

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you for the in depth comment!

[@ETERNALXGAMEPLAY]

Yeah I’m on my second play through of DLC and realized why does she immediately think I’m here because of Miquella I mean to be fair I was but not why she thought

[@schpeidermann]

Cool video! But Torrent does not have a goat's face. He has goat eyes with an golden hue.

[@yjoltetepique8555]

the statue is most likely a young marika due to the fact that farum azula is frozen in time from a past long before the erdtree. Unlikely miquella existed back then let alone had enough importance to be honored unlike the jarsaint marika

[@SilverMooney]

I understand that it could be Marika as well, however I do think it is Miquella, thanks for the comment!

[@yjoltetepique8555]

@@SilverMooney Fair I don't think it was an accident for Fromsoft to make miquella and marika look so similar combined with us not being to have any confirmation of marika as a child

[@tylermech66]

@@SilverMooneyFarum Azula isn't frozen in time, it's _outside_ of time. a very important distinction. Could very well be that the statue was built in the past because of the future, either by beastmen/the dragons traveling through time via exiting and returning to Farum Azula, or the time weirdness gives them visions of the future.

[@BlackHermit]

Very good Torrent.

[@_Somsnosa_]

Hey nice video. I would suggest using an audio compressor on your voice or at least turning down the music a bit more so it doesn't drown out your voice, it gets a little muddy sounding at some points x

[@deathandrebirth-y8x]

you paint melina as an arsonist.

[@forgetful5630]

Great insight into Torrent! Though, I thought the smoldering butterflies were a reference to Mesmer?

[@TheGothblade]

Mesmer's is the black pyrefly.

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you for watching!

[@devinguy]

Good stuff!

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you!

[@jimmynorman9897]

Good point about the double jumping, makes me wonder why spirits are able to do that?

[@SilverMooney]

Yeah, it seems to be just the Ancestral Spirits and Torrent can do that. Thanks for the comment!

[@jimmynorman9897]

@@SilverMooney Seems to be the same species at least, the infants head mentions the potential to sprout horns. Or maybe crucible influence since he is ancient?

[@SilverMooney]

Yes I think Torrent and the Ancestral Spirit are the same species! I think it is possible the species could be related to the crucible like you said since they are ancient, and they also have horns.

[@diptube6563]

The three wolves is Ranni - Blythe, Ijji, and Selivus

[@MisterK9739]

That does not really make a lot of sense

[@diptube6563]

@@MisterK9739 neither do you

[@MisterK9739]

@@diptube6563 great non-argument and ad-hominem.

[@truckfinanceaustralia1335]

Great vid!

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you!

[@yagizc3842]

hmm lore veeeery deep lore

[@hassansonicxd2749]

amazing keep going

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you!

[@Dark_Sun_Gwyndolin]

Your voice is like an ASMR ❤I feel a good potencial in You. In doing so, You need to speak a little slower, and learn how to breathe between the speaking words. ASMR of souls like games is always a good option to completly immerse into the lore of this games.

[@spideywebster4541]

6:57 beautiful art do you have a link to it

[@patrickmarcoux2474]

I like the way you think. I enjoyed your video .

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you!

[@KurtacusRex]

When hewg recognized roderikas spirit affinity he said it was because of another he used to know. Could that have been miq/trima?

[@SilverMooney]

I haven't thought of that but that is a good point!

[@headecas]

I prefer to think torrent left miquellas service and chose us as a new master.after all miquella is torrents FORMER master

[@SilverMooney]

That is also a possibility!

[@gypsiboy85]

why are we whispering everything like were dieing?

[@smileyfrownupsidedown4989]

Why are you whispering? To sound like miss chalice?

[@OgieSifter]

Im with you but i dont think miquella, rani and melina had any communication with each other. The game makes it seem like it was merika that chose us to start this path but honestly it was torrent. Melina had to have her suspicions satisfied before she trusted his judgement, and Rani speaks to us under false pretences pretending to be Rena. I feel it may be as simple as these items being hold overs from s previous age that they got their hands on. I wanna know how they got these items because i feel miquella was already gone and the only inperion hes know to conspire with are malenia and Radahn

[@tn7403]

Solid video and well put together! But you sound like you went out clubbing and lost your voice last night

[@SilverMooney]

Haha glad you liked the video!

[@princelorian1883]

Good video but please just don't whisper anymore I got my sound on on the way and I can barely hear. good video by the way

[@SilverMooney]

Thanks for the feedback! I’ll try to make my voice and audio better

[@fenixchief7]

Goldwork is an embroidery technique. It has nothing to do with unalloyed gold. Likely the opposite in fact. I think its more likely that the player is Torrents original master, and also one of the sacrificial "soulless" demigod children that were the likely sacrifice for Melina's soul to survive. There is not one single spirit caller more accomplished than our character can be. We draw Torrent, Melina and Ranni to us, dozens of spirits from a wide variety of allegiances and of course the aforementioned Ancestral Spirits boss fights. Torrents loyal to us beyond anyone. He stays by our side after we inherit the Frenzied Flame and after we defeat Miquella and his consort. If you want to go with this theory, we even recall our own spirit from the Erdtree, something Godwyn could not do; though the ritual that left Melina burnt and bodiless with the proper rune of death is likely far different than the fearsome rite Ranni concocted. This has been the only thing that ever made sense to me, particularily now that the dlc pits us against Miquella. St. Trina is more likely than Miquella, but neither is ever associated with spirits and wolves are associated with Carian royalty and Marika, not Miquella or Trina.

[@SilverMooney]

Thank you for the comment! You have an interesting theory!

[@MisterK9739]

Interesting theory, yet not completely true. There are multiple enemies able to summon spirits as well. (The fact we have a variety to chose from doesn‘t really matter, we can only call one type at time). We are obviously not the most proficient with spirits otherwise we wouldn‘t need someone else to tune them for us! :) Torrent was gifted to us, calling him with the whistle is not a special power. Ranni was not drawn to us, she was just instructed to give us the spirits calling bell and then vanishes. We later randomly show up at her doorstep, which she even mentions. Melina was drawn to us because she saw an opportunity to fulfill her goals with us being a maidenless tarnished that can still see the guidance of grace (which is rare) That brings me to my last point: we don‘t recall our own spirit from the Erdtree. The players tarnished is revived by Grace.

[@Prodig3yXunleashed]

Totally understand soft voices and soft spoken people but you're just deadass whispering into your mic. Sounds like you recorded this at 3am and were scared to wake people up

[@dcho18]

I actually like it. Adds to the ambiance.

[@Prodig3yXunleashed]

@@dcho18 Like i said, ambiance is fine and people can manage that kinda ambiance.. without fully whispering into the mic where I can barely hear anything lol soft spoken, sure, light in tone sure.. flat out whispering the entire monolog? Thats different lol

[@_Somsnosa_]

​@@dcho18It would work better if she compressed and boosted her voice a little or at least turn the music down so we can hear her voice clearly

[@Nope-ity-nope-nope]

Do you people all use the same KZbin Title Generator or do you just copy all the garbage out there? This ONE comment will blow your mind.

[@SilverMooney]

Well you did click, didn't you?

[@revanknight2927]

Why do you sound out of breath the entire video?

[@jacksonhoerster3966]

Not sure what your native language is but please work in enunciation and breathing. It sounds like you have a stuffy nose and are struggling for breath with every word. The same sentence spoken strongly carries further than trying to rush through in excitement.

[@sephiroth8517]

Ranni being responsible for Godwyns death isnt a secret so no way she helped miquella.