This Player's Forehand is So Late the Ball Had to Wait

[@Looeelooee]

Join the Pong Connect Discord server here - discord.gg/UbakrKSFCp Watch this video if you are interested in free coaching - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJ3Eg5Wvq7h4q68 TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Intro 1:01 Context 6:27 Match review 7:01 Issues w/ forehand 8:18 Backhand technique 10:51 Guaranteed attack / bread and butter combo against pips example 11:38 More issues w/ forehand 13:33 Forehand issues cont. 15:58 This is why I don't recommend Chinese rubbers unless you're super advanced 18:43 Serve receive mindset 20:23 Tension during shots 23:13 Rhythm 25:04 Intro clip 26:31 Serve selection issues 27:30 Notes 29:34 Weight transfer ("squishing the bug") example 31:41 Middle random exercise example 32:40 Notes cont.

[@rav781]

This is great, I'll definitely check out your other videos. Subbed.

[@Looeelooee]

♥️♥️

[@themorethemerrier281]

That's a good analysis that should help him quite a bit. I've been working on shrinking my swing for a while. It's astounding that you really can generate the same amount of power (or even more) with a small whippy swing supported by core strength. When you get the hang of it it's a lot of fun. And solves your timing problems.

[@Looeelooee]

Yup 100%!

[@bttrader1]

Love your content, Looeelooee! Very useful video and a great reminder for weight transfer tip. I had a strange question. At 13:17 you say, he was late to the shot. In my mind, it looked like he was too early and snatched at the ball (something I do all the time!). It also looks to me like it was off the bounce too. Could you explain how one could be "late" or "early"? I know it has to do the ball bounce but the life of me, I can't seem to fully understand it.

[@Looeelooee]

That one's a little weird. He's late in the sense of he's starting his shot too late, too much backswing and too many moving parts, so the point of his swing where he's making contact is too late in relation to the swing, but the timing of the contact in relation the ball is indeed early and I would have preferred he let the ball bounce. But honestly in the grand scheme that was a really minor mistake that could be attributed to a brain fart so not something as important for him to focus on for now until the fh is fixed.

[@sleit0n]

I think u are right regarding all that u adviced to him, but from my perspective every problem that he has(big swing, bad timing on fh, etc) are only an effect of the cause which is his grip or the position of his wrist while doing forehand, which makes impossible for him to do a clean and also shorter stoke. everybody's bones are diffrent shape which leads to some not beeing able to do as good fh because they can't get the racket at the right angle. what i would advise to him is to play with diffrent grips on Forehand until he finds a better one, or mebe adjust his wrist twisting or something... That being sayed he is clearly trying also to play like chinese stile with big swing and stuff, but i don't think that's the main problem.

[@verysmellygarlic]

Great content and great comments!

[@Looeelooee]

Ty I appreciate it!

[@shilongecho2840]

like this type of framewise tt technique analysis

[@Looeelooee]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@themorethemerrier281]

The OSP Virtuoso+ is a beautiful, handcrafted blade from Hungary

[@CalvinAytch]

In my experience, I see this mistake a lot with intermediate players who have some semblance of technique. For some reason, it's intuitive (and very incorrect) to believe that big swing = big power. In reality, big swing can make small power and a small swing can make big power. It's all to do with your explosiveness and your acceleration at contact. I think this is a lesson that any intermediate attacker needs to learn before they can step up their play since the better the players get, the faster the game gets and you won't have any chance to go for the RipMaster 5000 that a lot of these guys try to do. FWIW, I also play Chinese rubber (H3N) on forehand but the player shown here is swinging probably twice as big, if not more, as I would swing at a close table ball. And that's saying something because I already swing too big at times! There's also very little utilization of core / legs to generate power, which is so, so critical to getting anything out of the rubber.

[@turbozed]

This guy's got a bigger swing than Aruna but with none of the power. People swing like this because they're trying to get racket speed, but don't know how to use their body to get the quick burst of acceleration and whip. Aruna's follow through on the FH is so huge because he generated so much power so quickly that his racket is way over his head by the time the power dissipated. This really has nothing to do with the equipment. Battle 3 is fast and easy to use. It doesn't require big swings any more than something like Fastarc G-1 would. This is more about a player trying to copy the "look'' of a pro FH swing without understanding the fundamentals of why it looks the way it does.

[@turbozed]

To add to this, look at the FH shot at 18:00. Nice compact movement with almost zero backswing. Rubber produced great shot quality. It was a reactive shot where has forced to shorten because it got to his hitting zone without any time to prepare (and load up with the huge backswing). The power output was therefore more condensed. He just needs to fix the technique to make it look more like this shot. Switching to a tensor at the same time as adjusting technique will likely be even more confusing, not to mention mess up the already good touch on his serves and short pushes.

[@Brozi]

​@@turbozed Hi, it's me in the video. I appreciate the pointers, will definitely make a good use of them. Unfortunately that's what happens when you play at a club where it's not easy to get some technical knowledge from others... You develop wrong habits, don't use your body etc...

[@Looeelooee]

@turbozed I agree with you for the most part. I still stand by not being the biggest fan of the Chinese fh rubber, although for the reasons you mention that's why in my notes I say not to worry about changing without at least trying to fix the technique first. But that shot you mention that's nice and snappy is against topspin which even then is a little too large. All the ones against underspin were way too big and the rubber is not being utilized properly. But in the end gotta get the technique fixed first and foremost.

[@Looeelooee]

@Brozi You got this! No shame in not having everything perfect. Everyone was a beginner / learner at some point and now you know where to focus so you can continue to improve!

[@SergiArias]

As a Hurricane 3 user, I disagree with chinese rubbers being fast (in my experience). In fact, it's quite the opposite, they are slow. When I take a paddle with a tenergy05, for me it's too fast compared to mine, and when someone with tensor rubber takes my paddle, the ball usually drops. I think people say it's faster because you can get more maximum speed from linear rubber than tensor one. It's like a bicycle, if the bicycle has bigger wheels it's slower than a bicycle with smaller ones, but you can get to higher maximum speeds. @Brozi in my opinion your forehand has lots of potential. Your hip twisting is good, but you shouldn't move your arm in relation to your body. It's like your stroke preparation is good with your body, but you are swinging your arm more than your body is. Just attach your arm to your body as if you had your shoulder plastered to your body. Also, if you want more acceleration, instead of going far behind, just bend your arm near the point of contact, and you will get much more speed and spin without a big swing. Also, in the beginning of my training they taught me to lift the backspin balls just doing an upward motion with the arm. While this is effective, it's not optimal as the speed is low. The stroke should be the same as a topspin against a block, but the upward motion should come from your legs, finishing the stroke in front of you and not above you. I see another thing in the video that you can work on. Oversimplifying, Chinese philosophy in general is to finish the point as soon as possible and playing simple game, while Western one is more focused on control and creative shots. So in Chinese training they place a lot of importance on the recovery of the stroke and the stability of the body, because this is what gives you the option of placing more pressure to the opponent. So in general, you should make all the shots with your body, and I mean all of them. You are using the body only on topspin shots. But what about backspin forehand or backhand pushing? You are just stretching your arm, and the way to do it is to approach the ball with your body, moving the arm as little as possible, so you can recover in case they push you back. For every stroke, you should be able to catch the ball in front of you with your hand (without the paddle) and throw it away. I hope it helps!!

[@fonryjji]

Looks like he is generating almost 90% of his power on his forehand with his shoulders which might be the reason for the large back swing as he is trying to compensate for the lack of power generated if he were to do a smaller stroke.

[@Looeelooee]

Yup for sure. That's partially why I added the section on weight transfer at the end. Power needs to primarily come from legs / core

[@SergiArias]

I completely agree with the long swing. Hurricane 3 provincial user here so I can relate. Chinese Rubbers are for the masochists, as you need almost perfect technique. But in my experience, having the constraint makes you get really good at technique with time, at the cost of a lot of suffering that tenergy 05 users don't have. In my experience the long swing comes from temptation, because in training, when you do the long swing and the timing is correct, the result is crazy spinny and fast and the ball doesn't return. But in matches this is a problem with recovery. So with time it's imperative to learn to contain yourself, and concentrate all the force in one point instead of scatter it througout the swing. Also in my case the common weight transfer explanation didn't work, it made me do very weird movements with my legs. But I saw another explanation from a chinese coach that if you focus on using your right leg to support the stroke, and transfer the force from the leg to the hips, from the hips to the arm and hand, what happens naturally is a weight transfer. So the main difference is that you don't have to focus in weight transfer, but leg force transfer to the hip, being the weight transfer a passive consequence of a well executed shot. Nowadays, even if you are a fan of chinese rubbers and style it's better to have a Rakza Z, Glacier 09c or even Dignics 09c and move to Chinese rubbers when you feel you are comfortable with the hybrids. I think Hurricane 3 is absolutely the best rubber available, but it comes with a lot of pain and suffering, and not even some pros can use it to its full potential. Battle 3 is similar I think, maybe with more catapult effect.

[@Looeelooee]

I'm not as familiar with Battle as I am with Hurricane but I believe they're relatively similar in terms of playing characteristics. I wouldn't call Hurricane (or any setup fwiw) "objectively" the best especially in modern table tennis where you have players like Felix Lebrun and other top Europeans beating literally everyone while having equally high quality forehands. However, I would say it's for sure (at a pro level) at a minimum as good of a choice as other rubbers, but only with very good, specific, properly coached, and refined technique.

[@verysmellygarlic]

One thing that works for me for rotating the core on forehand drive/loop is focusing on generating power from my left shoulder (i am a righty). Squishing the bug with the left foot is also a very helpful practice.

[@Looeelooee]

That's a really good one. I sometimes tell students to imagine an invisible string between their left and right hand. When one moves the other has to move too and it helps them develop core rotation.