This Review of The Magicians Is Way Too Long | have fun with that

[@melvinlinderoth7108]

I’ve personally never read it as that magic corrupts only that it doesn’t solve the problem and that you still have to find your own meaning in life and I don’t think those themes ever left but it is interesting to hear a different interpretation.

[@powerlifting1012]

It can definitely be both too

[@coren216]

Please please please do season reviews of the show. I’d love to hear your thoughts as compared to the books.

[@grimm516]

Honestly that would be cool, funny enough I watched the show first and in my hight of book devouring... never finished book 1

[@manowarkill67]

I found the books to be a great representation of depression and what it can feel like to grow with that in your life. It doesn't matter if your dreams come true and you get something as incredible as magic, you're still you with depression. I was really happy with the ending, because Q found a way to build a world in which he is happy. It takes work every day, and it's not easy, and you'll probably fuck it up a few times. The fact he takes ownership of some of that by the end was super satisfying. Loved hearing your take on all of this.

[@TempoLOOKING]

No he's dead.

[@manowarkill67]

In the show, yes. The books have a different ending

[@wastedinspiration]

This is one of my favorite series, and I loved how it was a study in repeating toxic cycles until you learn to break out of them. I didn't really mind the end because the point was that Quentin was the problem with his own life, so if he learns how to be happy, there's no reason he can't do that in another world. Plus his motivations were completely different. Instead of needing to leave because he was unhappy, it was more an intellectual exercise, or like an experimental physicist running an experiment. The act of discovery became his focus, not the escape. At least, that's how I interpreted it...

[@Steve_Stowers]

Thank you for this! I really appreciate all of the thoughtful discussion.

[@kristensadana8097]

I agree with so much of what you're saying here. One thing that I really liked about the first book was Grossman's ability to capture post-graduate ennui. The idea of a bunch of high achieving, elite undergrads who finally graduate and then have no idea what to do with themselves, realizing that they are wholly unprepared for life and so they just party and binge-drink out of despair because their lives have no meaning... so good. So accurate. I agree that thematically his writing is frustrating and feels like this series could have been so much more amazing with some more time to revise and refine his plot.

[@kingofkeys93]

Merphy your feelings on these books are very similar to mine after reading it through with you. we've commented about wishing he thought all 3 books out in full instead of pushing the universe forward in the moment. Im happy you listened to some interviews with him for him. It helps with understanding this world he made more. Im thankful everything that is lacking in these books I already know gets way more fleshed out and better. in show. and I hope the watch parties keep going

[@KPCSlor]

I'm so happy to find this channel. My favorite part of booktube are spoiler reviews, but all of the booktubers moved to mostly spoiler free. I get why those are better rating/view wise, but I LOVE reading a book and then streaming a discussion on it. I did a 2nd read through (Audible listen through) of this series and I loved it even more than the first read through. I think I'll give the show a second watch through now as well. My takes Book 1: This was a beautiful portrait of depression from a first person perspective. When you get everything you ever thought you wanted and it doesn't make you happy, the problem is within you. Book 2: The layering of Julia's trauma on top of Quinten's grief was heartbreaking and helped show Quinten that not everything is about him and he's not the only character in his own story Book 3: Was a bit more on the fun wise with the heist caper, but it expanded and gave Janet and Eliot some much needed depth. I love that at the end he and Alice still had a lot of work to do and didn't just go for a 'Happily ever after' type vibe.

[@malcolmmccallum7502]

Once upon a time, we had the same debates about Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever.

[@deforesttthompson9299]

I've never cheated on anyone, but i have done things that were horribly wrong, and that whent against the image that i had for myself in my mind. I think that the cognitive dissonance and rationalizing that Quinton displays is extremely realistic especially for somone in their early twenties figuring out euo they are.

[@shannonhoenig873]

I would love to see you cover lock and key

[@ChrisTierney]

thank you so so much for this. i read this trilogy a couple years ago and had basically this exact response to it and it's so affirming to hear that i'm not the only one.

[@RonnyLive19881]

I look at the entire third book as the “ending”. By the time the book had ended the story had wrapped up so much and gave us so many new bits of complex magic to reflect on I felt immensely satisfied with the conclusion. I loved the whole section where they turned into whales to get back to Mayakovsky and all of the wonders he had created in his seclusion on the frozen continent. The series as a whole is a beautifully told story that I can really relate to.

[@TempoLOOKING]

The army of zombies was beautiful? It was dumb.

[@RonnyLive19881]

@@TempoLOOKING I don’t remember an army of Zombies at all… been a while since I have read the books but I feel like I’d remember that. Was it in Magician King?

[@TempoLOOKING]

@@RonnyLive19881 Martin the dark king from S5 EP 12. Remember the beast breaks out of the underworld with an undead army destroying Filery in the process while the kids use the magic rubics cubes.

[@TempoLOOKING]

The theme was magic is pain and drugs are great. Oh and white men suck. Killing Quinton like that was clearly political. Julia's Powers were not from grape, but punishment for Ragnard. It was clearly not good like she claimed. Also Quinton never got board. He just got dragged by being a Virgin. Quinton is basically The Eliot of the series. Don't watch Mr. Robot. It turns shit after S2.

[@TempoLOOKING]

The message is also a liberal lie. Most people who aren't this prick of an author would LOVE magic. The issue is we're keeper down by the threat of force from the state. When 33 % of men would fuck a demon...oh your society is fucked. This is why Iesaki will stay popular. Most men who aren't Ally's would love it. Then again feminism has corrupted most men. If it took killing half the population with human transmutation...they would do it. Sorry Mustang.

[@alex30425]

I didn’t really have all the issues you had with the books while I do agree with all the highs points in the books. One of the reasons I also enjoyed the book more than other is I actually liked Q and enjoyed his perspective in all three books. This is likely do because I related to him when it comes to his depression.

[@MarionOlvas]

Okay, you convinced me, I need to reread the whole series right now :) This was one of my favourites when I read it - I am one of the ones who felt so much common with Quentin, even if I did not want to realize it, I had to. I was the one who wanted to be like Julia, because I love her so much, but I had to realize that unfortunately, I am Quentin .. :D I struggled with depression as well, and I wanted to run away to magical worlds my whole life - to Hogwarts and to Middle Earth equally. But even now, with arriving at academia and finishing my PhD I feel like I am still always dissatisfied and discontent - so I am sure that Quentin and Grossman still have so much to tell me. So I am restarting, thank you Merphy! :)

[@MarionOlvas]

@Pierre In in my experince every person's depression journey is different, so we never know what the other goes through, but I see what you mean

[@wastedinspiration]

​@@pierrein8432the depression was why he kept hurting himself, his narcissistic sense of entitlement is what made him hurt others.

[@stephencruickshank3868]

Solid review, but two thoughts. You need to review your heroes tale elements. It never ends well for them, by definition lol. So Quinten’s experience is par for the course and makes his actions heroic. Thought 2: about the thing at the end of book 2 - how do you see that as a narrative net positive? She loses her soul and would give up her powers in a second to un-do it. It’s literally showing the negative impact of following magic that Book 1 talked about bit you wanted to see more of. Her path to magic was even more destructive (both of self and others) than was quintens.

[@jeremysommerville6761]

When I first read this series I was about the same age as Quentin in the start of the first book. I felt like Quentin, while terrible, was sort of the worst version of myself. So seeing Quentin go from that to a much more well rounded, understanding adult sort of gave me a vision of my own future where I could overcome the worst parts of myself as well. So while I also have the same complaints, and as an adult it is MUCH harder to reread especially the first book, it was very special to me and I really love it

[@JJsims5504]

My feelings toward the trilogy exactly.

[@12Blubb12]

To be honest: I didnt read the books but i watched the show and for me personally, its one of the best tv shows ever, because there are REAL consequenzes. Something, that most over shows are missing.

[@springsbreak]

i came here immediately after finishing book 3 and felt like a was having a conversation with you cause you described my emotions very well and wrapped up this whole series with a mixed perspective which i’m so grateful for. i personally like the fact the quentin made a land between the world he wanted and the world he was given, i thought that was good way to conclude quentin’s storyline i just wish it was talked about a lil bit more, i also am grateful that alice and q didn’t end up together romantically riding off into the sunset ( i mean they kind of did but) because i loved them as friends in the first book (just two nerds) and i felt their relationship needed more before they could be partners. i know you said eliot should have made a sacrifice and i agree that his ending was very anticlimactic and he really did nothing but i am so glad he didn’t die because i love him and i think he is the best high king fillory (or new fillory) could possibly have. anyway this series exploded my brain and i am 100% watching the show even though it feels more like a funny parody of the books i can’t get enough.

[@springsbreak]

i just finished the show and omg this series as taken over my brain. it was 100% more crazier than the books but had so much fun. i still love the books with all my heart though.

[@TempoLOOKING]

Not the same. It was like doing drugs...and now I have a dragon fetish...thanks guys 😮​@@springsbreak

[@marieestrella64]

You have great points. I also had tons of feelings reading this series. Book 3 was my favorite. Thank you for recommending this book. I will have to see more of you book recommendations to add to my TBR

[@Lancaerie]

I can't wait for your thought on the TV show. I loved it! So much more than the books! I still haven't finished book 3, but your review made me want to re-read/finish this series. Thanks for your videos. Always awesome.

[@gondram]

I took the Asperger's line in book 2 as Quentin being a jerk and mocking his social awkwardness, not an actual diagnosis

[@JKase011]

Yeah me too

[@vcackermanwrites]

After seeing your review of this on the main channel, I had to check out this video!

[@dfhack]

This is the best discussion and analysis I've ever heard on The Magicians. I love how you identify and clearly explain the themes and the book's high and low points. This is why I subscribe to your channel(s)!

[@m.m4999]

Now I have a video to watch for the dinner thankfully 😅

[@thatsci-firogue]

I kinda want to read it now because of your vlogs lol

[@robertdullnig3625]

Grossman has been pretty clear that Book 3 was influenced heavily by becoming a parent, which is why it has a more hopeful tone. Unfortunately, it also seems to say "All you problems can be solved by becoming a parent," which is maybe not a great message.

[@sarahkendall5714]

I can tell this book series has been a rollercoaster of a journey, I have no intention of reading it but I've been curious to know what it's all about and why its been so hotly debated. Thanks for the review video! I know this might be a bit niche, but how you describe some elements of this story kind of reminds me of a fictional Chinese webnovel called Proud Immortal Demon Way, where basically the protagonist resolves problems through sex. Anyway, the actual story based on this does a great job of unpicking that theme. The book is called The Scum Villain Self-Saving System.

[@angrynerdgirl]

YES Scum Villain!!! Omg it's so funny! It's not my favorite MXTX novel, but dang if it's not good. I love the donghua based on it, too. It's like if Barbie made a gay xianxia show.

[@sarahkendall5714]

@@angrynerdgirl That's a brilliant description of the books! Scum Villain is my favourite so far but I haven't finished the other MXTX novels (still working my way through!)

[@TheTomTracey]

I've re-read the series since I saw your spoiler free review a couple weeks ago and loved this review now that I have had the chance to get to it. Love your perspective on different things because they can vary from my perspective. The number one thing for me is all the emotions it brought out (which differ to some extent from when i originally read it, which is great) I watched season 1 of the tv show when it came out but never got past that. It has also been added to my list.

[@LightHalcyon]

I think I need to reread the books. I don't remember coming away from Julia's story really ending that great for her, and I've mixed up quite a bit of the show story beats I think. (And I think either reading of Julia, you're right that assault driving her character development is not a great thing).

[@lindakirste4540]

My experience with this was similar. I saw the Show first (even though I think Inever finished it) and loved it. Thats why I picked up the books. I could not stop reading them. I was loving them and hating them at the same time. I feel like some things could have been handled better, as you said. And I also think, that a lot of my enjoyment came from my previous love for the show and the characters I got to know there.

[@josiahmacfarlane4344]

I see all the criticisms about these books and I understand them. Thank you for your video. It's still my 2nd favorite book series ever, in spite of the problems. Great video!

[@dranoeliagarcia]

Would you mind sharing what series holds the first spot?

[@diabmara28]

Never read it, saw the tv show though. Based on what you are saying imo it's simple, magic is writing (art but one that uses word specifically) and it was painful but the release is writing your own book - seems like the author's experience

[@Jackolantirn]

The Julia perspective in book 2 was so good. The backstory on how Julia had to blaze her own path to where she got to was incredible. I actually started to enjoy the series. But gfd, the rape happens, and then she gets god powers from it. It blew my mind as to what the f'ing point of this part of the story is supposed to be. What's the takeaway there. Need to get raped by a god to get stronger? What a heaping pile of manure. What a flaming pile of manure. What a stinking corpse lily. What a slice of vieux boulogne.

[@cland27]

It’s not supposed to be a reward. The point matches the rest of the theme of getting to your goal then finding it to be a tragedy. It’s basically saying don’t meddle in things beyond your grasp. I did find that scene really weird as well, but the getting stronger part never bothered me because it’s very much portrayed as more of a curse than a reward. Like yes she’s stronger but it’s a constant reminder of what she’s been through and she’s never shown as being happy about it. She’s actually pretty much emotionless after that and is noted to act almost inhuman. Her only reward is when she’s finally released from her suffering by becoming a goddess

[@tristanelizabeth6370]

Just finished a re-read and watched this video. Agreed with a lot but i have some different thoughts on the ending. For me, I feel like maybe the frustration, the circular nature of it, the "we learnt this lesson but whoops didnt really learn it," feels a bit purposeful. It reminds me of the way the first book ends - Quentin learns to face the real world, and then Fillory comes back for him. Its reminiscent of how character growth and learning can be really messy in real life. You learn the same lessons over and over again, you make the same mistakes a few times (at least, I do). So Quentin realizes that he doesnt have to be the hero, but then an opportunity presents itself, and he takes it. He learns not to run away from his problems, and then he makes a new world and runs away into it. Progress exists (he is way better in book 3 than in book 1), but is nonlinear. So even the way the triology ends isn't this perfect ending. Anyway just a thought I had while watching your video. Hope you ended up enjoying the show, too. It's one of my favorite SFF-book-to-screen adaptions because it is so unafraid to change the source material without changing the spirit of the thing. Cheers

[@miyayume_eclectic_dream]

I am at the 47 minute and really enjoying your review of the books. I have seen only the series. The Q was getting on my nervs the hole season 1 so apparently they nailed the book very well. The Season 3-5 are my favorite. One of the reason we have no main character but they all are important and get they story told. And they all are gray. There is difficult to say one is a good the other all villan. Inlove that. Feels more real. I read the series build the side character much more or even gave them a story of their own compared to the book. I would like to hear your comparing that but 5 seasons are a lot. So, very very happy that I found your deep dive explaination of the books as I don't want to read them. Thank you for this as it is lots of work. This video made me feel like I read the book

[@o_o-lj1ym]

I read book 1 and it took me so long to read it but it’s stuck with me. I still think about.

[@KrazyKobold]

I really wonder what you thought of all five seasons of the Show (I tried searching a bit to see if you ever responded to it, but couldn't find anything) now that they're all out and done.

[@lauramccullagh980]

Literally that scene in book 2 and the aftermath that you perfectly put into words is the reason I don’t recommend this series to people. Or if I do I tell them to just read the first book.

[@notrixamoris3318]

Wow kinda shocked this video is only an hour long...please finish the tv series Merphy so you can compare the two.

[@Lynn-CA]

Even though I landed on the hate side, I do agree with the vast majority of the points you made ..... when I think about it logically. Emotionally though, it's just hate 😂 An excellent and thoughtful look at the series. I'm sorry I couldn't love it more with you and abandoned it after book 2. I did have a blast reading it with you up until then though.

[@merphynapierreviews]

Thank you! I loved the discussions for the two books we did read together, and fully understand why you chose to DNF. It's a love or hate series for most people it seems 😂 I just get to be the weirdo that feels both!

[@jackskellingtonsora]

The reason why the ending of the second book feels so lame and anticlimactic is because it's mimicking the ending of a Narnia book, specifically Voyage of the Dawn Treader on which most of the second book is based. Quinten's friends get to go into the glorious other world, but he is denied entry. Just like how Reepicheep gets to go into Aslan's Country at the end of Dawn Treader, but the kids themselves are denied entry. Quinten is kicked out of Fillory by Ember and told he'll never get to come back just like how Edmund and Lucy are kicked out of Narnia by Aslan and told they'll never get to come back. And just like Voyage, the new kids get to come back (or stay as the case may be). Eustace is told that he'll come back at some point in Voyage after he hated being there and desperately tried to get back to Earth. Just like how Josh and Poppy, who didn't want to go in the first place and didn't want to stay, decide to and get to stay in Fillory as the new king and queen. There's a tearful goodbye scene with Elliot that feels lame and incomplete because that's how the tearful goodbye scene feels at the end of Voyage with Caspian. And, like this series does, it deeply interrogates this scene from Voyage and makes you feel how soul sucking and deeply unfair it is. I'm just about to start the third book and will probably come back to talk about it when I finish it.

[@nazimelmardi]

Interesting enough that they could make the TV series that one of the fav person there is King Margo. :D By request of us they modified the story to that and it's a win. But all the characters are a win in that. This book is how a magic school story should be, a better alternative for Harry Potter. Bc there is where Harry Potter fails: moral issues, the main Harry Potter himself is nobody until the last book, etc... Here everybody is somebody, the school has a real feeling, they have real life issues and it feels real... And by Q... interesting that he was a brat in the books and he started to be in the series too. The fact that we are not in his head, helped a lot... And how this changed? Really worth to watch it. Julia... yep, watch the show.

[@anikaphillips1372]

I am super interested to see what you think about the TV show. I personally enjoyed the TV show more, it was a bit more fun, there was better character writing for the side characters, the pacing was less jumpy, also some of the characters they added are some of my favorites. Also I feel like the TV show handled some of the problematic storylines better with the benefit of having multiple writers a bunch of whom are women.

[@purplecat733]

Loved your video so one of my all-time favorite authors and favorite book series of all time is the Firebird Chronicles by TJ White. And I feel like she is so slept on and if people knew her, I think should be way more popular. Her books are so much better than anything that I have read that’s out right now I think you would really enjoy a lot of her books.

[@caitlyn.m.t9618]

I agree with you about what happened to Julia. He was handling it decently enough, and then the ending of book two happened, and it just kind of ruined the arc for me. In the show, and massive spoilers if you want to watch it, because yes it is very different, they did it differently. In which the god got his powers taken away as a punishment and a spark of it was given to Julia because she showed mercy when another god asked her to. And she had to grow the spark herself into something else and she did it by helping people, such as regrowing a forest that was destroyed. Then season four and season five happened and ruined it all. But ignoring that, I much prefer that direction they took her in because it was about decisions she made instead of whatever that was in the book.

[@neivilde.1242]

well now i desperately need you to do a show review, i'd love to hear your thoughts after each season, because every single problem you have seem to be fixed by it, like the pacing, the povs, the side character quests, the r*pe storyline, and other stuff you said. i never read the books so i can't compare but just hearing you talk about some stuff I'm like oh wait they actually kept that in the show and improved it?

[@luisquintanilla1694]

The Merphy Napier is "The Homie." she saw it for what it was and that is a skill that requires empathy and foresight. good on you Friend :) -I think the ending sucked cus i wanted an Anime Ending but he gave us a literary one. A pillar of the story was mental health and he ended the story with "magic never corrupted, it was always people" like the fruit of knowledge or Tolstoy nihilism. -When Creative people have the ability to make some thing new they can be haunted with questioning reality daily and that can lead to false or true realizations. Lev was not just a "immature" kid when he was young but an outlier and that carries a different filter beyond just young and stupid.

[@solracalayac]

This show actually got me into magic like REAL CRAFT

[@EliteEdgeK]

I hope you do a video on the TV series. I haven't read the books but it sounds like the tv series solves a lot of your complaints about the books. I'd love a video comparing the two.

[@henfarasubtitrare9764]

Well, i know what I'm putting on tonight for my "going to sleep" video. 😁

[@SouravUldyssian]

Please finish the tv series. Its really way better than the books, especially from season 3. Seasons 3, 4 and 5 are just some of the best fantasy television.

[@melvinlinderoth7108]

I don’t think it’s better than the books they are both good in there own way they are completely different from each other by the end

[@SouravUldyssian]

@@melvinlinderoth7108 I think the problematic things in the books were handled much better in the series.

[@AcornRiot]

Season 4 and 5 were so poorly written that it's laughable

[@Jackolantirn]

@@SouravUldyssian I agree. The show takes the great ideas from the books, but handles them well. Also, because you're not trapped in Q's perspective, you actually get to appreciate the other characters in this story. The worst part about the other characters, besides Q, in the books is that you're constantly forced to see them through Q's narcissistic point-of-view for most of the series. I do wish they kept the bad ass group of hedge witches that Julia joins in the books, but that's the only complaint that I have. Also, man, when Janet/Margo gets her axes in the show, it was so good. In the books, it's just like "oh yeah, I went and did this miserable thing, but then I got these axes and fucked shit up." And it's just, like, 'cool story, bro.' But in the show, you actually get to be there. There is a positive, feminist message to it that doesn't feel shoehorned. And there's a musical. Man, that shit was just hellah dope.

[@luisquintanilla1694]

@@Jackolantirn I dont like TV adaptations because it deletes my idea of the characters in the book (disability reasons) but I would love to see the Janet arc you just explained. you are a compelling person.

[@mndrew1]

Agree hard that Julia is the best story in the series. Book one we get Q's perspective where it's like his uncle won the lottery and gave him a small share then suddenly old friend pops up out of the wood work demanding he get her a piece of the pie. Then book 2 comes along and we get her perspective and we see Q is just one of those people whose universe ends at the tip of his nose. And of course, Reynard had it coming. Screw the consequences, that 'god' had to die.

[@NicktheBrit518]

I'm going to enjoy this

[@felipejr.2021]

I can never be sure if my memories are from the book or the TV show, but divine magic in the "seed" was also used used as they were preparing to fight The Beast. It's somewhat consistent, even if distasteful. The show definitely handled it better.

[@TempoLOOKING]

Gives new meaning to THE SEED IS STRONG ROBERT.

[@jackskellingtonsora]

I think that's part of the point of the rape scene, right, that she gets her godhood powers through the rape. Because that's how those scenes typically go. The gods rape the mortals and then they are blessed with the god's power or whatever. I am by no means defending the scene, by the way, I can totally understand why anyone would be off put by it. But I think that was rather the idea.

[@trevorgarey5646]

I'm still listening to your thoughts on the first book and it's making me want to give it a second try. I read the first book after having watched the show for 5 years and loving everyone in it and then reading the book really turned me off, I hated the characters I had grown to love in the series and they felt like completely different people and the book covers a much longer span of time then the show. But hearing the way you talk about things makes me wanna give it a second try and push through the rest of the series. I'd be soo interested to know your thoughts of the show as you watch it if you plan on doing so.

[@kingofkeys93]

when I was reading the series recently. I like you ive seen the whole show. for me it was fun to see how the show used everything and flipped it up. the shows cannon I think is better then books and we can walk away from the series saying thats the final timeline. just seeing the bones of the show was fun

[@kingofkeys93]

I tired to reread the julia goddess explanation again. and yeah it seems to be. because she was changed from human from the act. and found that realization. that and the goddess watching over her. which has better connections and ties in show which it makes more sense to me because of that. in book, this is way to lose and I understand why this timeline of it falls flat. theres a quote from the show this goddess gives to julia asking her "do you think the chosen want to be chosen?" which again is a very dark aspect to add to the life of the gods. but this is overall handled better. in shows timeline

[@wesbeuning1733]

The tv series is one of my favorite things.

[@jackskellingtonsora]

Alright, so I kind of agree with your assessment of the third book. I absolutely loved a lot of what was going on. I do wish that Elliot was involved more, though. I kind of adore Elliot, just in general. Getting his pov in this book made me want to have had the first two books from his perspective. I get why we didn't. He's a much more interesting character than Quentin, but Quentin is a much more relatable character. That's understandable. Still, Elliot and Janet were pretty great. The ending felt very mythological with the death of the gods and the creation of the new world from the old. Quentin gets to use his specialty in fixing broken objects, just on a grand scale as a god. Full circle. Quentin also gets his own land which definitely does feel like a bit of a subversion of what we were going for throughout the trilogy. He says he's "outgrown" Fillory, but that's not really true. Especially since we see that he's created a "bridge" to Fillory and the cozy horse is there. And the book kind of makes clear that outgrowing his fantasy is not really a desired state for him either. Honestly, it's not really a desired state for most people either, I would think, nor should it be. The scene right at the beginning where Plum was trying to pull her prank was fantastic. The description of going through the pocket dimensions over and over again only to be confronted by Alice as a Niffin and then running away. It painted a fantastically vivid picture. And then how Quentin gets fired and Plum gets expelled for it. But it's all so incredibly pointless because the wine cellar door was literally two inches to the left. That made me throw up my hands, it was just like this series to have this huge dramatic scene leading to earth shattering consequences for these characters and it having been entirely pointless and easily avoidable the entire time. Of course. It's echoed quite well later with how Umber taking Martin's humanity to let him stay in Fillory was also entirely pointless. He was doing it for no reason; to become a god-king? lol wut; but it led to a lot of pain and suffering and death. I also liked that quite a lot. I loved Alice's angry rant after being turned back into a human. I feel like this is a common trope. Someone being turned into a monster, magical or otherwise, and then turned back into a human and everything is fine. That scene had to be gritty and raw and emotional and to confront the implications of what being a creature of pure magic means and how Alice might have liked that more than being a human. It was absolutely brilliant. Elliot was at a loss for words, which was great. This is very much so a series about two things, mainly, as far as I can tell. Looking at whimsical fantasy and really digging deep into it and its implications and the darkness behind it. AND an extremely introspective self-examination for US, those of us who read and get lost in fantasy to escape the real world. Those of us who read Narnia and Harry Potter as a small child. We never stopped getting lost in fantasy worlds either, we just started reading longer books as adults. That's why Quentin is so relatable to us, because we are him. In that respect, I think I understand why the ending is the way it is. Who of us wouldn't want to build our own land that we could escape into? Even after all that happened in this series, Quentin still says that he was right about the real world: it's awful and grey and horrible, tragic, life ruining things happen for no reason. Oh my god, I loved the journal section, that was absolutely the best section. Martin's story is pretty great. I can't really blame him for doing what he did, that is for sure. I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing in his place. The rams keep him out and don't tell him why so he forces his way in and fights to stay in. The desperate plea at the end of the journal from Rupert was absolutely heartbreaking as well. All the more so because the rams didn't answer him. I also don't think the Chatwins "outgrew" Fillory either. It never left any of them. Obviously we see that with Rupert desperately calling out to it to bring him back. Fiona ends up claiming to never have heard of it and saying it was fictional, very much so mimicking Susan from Narnia. It's a cope so as to not have to acknowledge it as real and to bring out the raw trauma of being rejected by it. Helen, of course, copes by becoming a fundamentalist Christian, getting lost in her own fantasy world. She is a ram fundamentalist and sees Jesus as the ram gods, so gets lost down the fantasy of religion. She takes what C.S. Lewis actually intended his audience to take from the series: that Aslan is Jesus. He almost explicitly stated that in Voyage of the Dawn Treader. That was entirely the point of the stories, from Lewis's perspective: he was writing them as Christian allegory first and foremost. His other stories are all Christian allegory as well and he also writes apologetics, like Mere Christianity. Lewis devoted his life to converting people with his writing. With Helen, he succeeded. Martin and Jane never leave Fillory, even though they work on opposite sides. They both find a way to stay in Fillory despite getting older.

[@Drudenfusz]

I have only watched the show, and that not even to completion, even though I feel like I have now to go an watch the 5th season. The first 4 seasons have been interesting, and from what I gather here is that the show might have handled things better. Nevertheless I would like to know how someone who has read the books things the show compares.

[@pobbityboppity1110]

Quentin being a flawed young man is valid, but man I found him just so annoying. Even when I was a youth, I was never as much of a shithead as Quentin was. It's hard to go along with it for an entire book and it felt exhausting. That and the messy plot was why I never went beyond the first book.

[@tharhein1542]

if someone talk about 'the magician' like you do to me irl... i would marry them .XD

[@wonderpotter2674]

I watched the show a while ago had have been thinking about reading the books, but the more I hear about them the more I’m scared to read it because I don’t want them to taint my view of the show. I also wasn’t a big fan of Quintin in the show so being stuck in his head kinda sounds like a nightmare

[@kingofkeys93]

dont let it shake your love for the show. just appreciate that this is where all the source material came from. thats how I handled reading it

[@laiaal.3324]

They felt quite different for me. I also watched the show first, and liked the books but didn't love it nearly as much as the show. And Quentin in the show is not as bad as in the books, so decide if you want to risk it based on that 😅

[@jag519]

Yeah, you're convo about the end of book 2 being a swing and a miss is also what made me decide it's a crap series honestly.

[@TheJackOfFools]

Like your review of the series, even though I dnf'ed the first book. I tried it twice. I didn't even get to the part where they go to Fillory. I think there are some major tone/theme issues with the story. Specifically, the idea that being a part of the magic world means you are never going to need to work to survive. That is HUGE, and the story barely addresses it. And the majority of the characters are miserable; they even address it directly when they were students in the Antarctic. Like being a magician makes you miserable, or you have to be miserable to be a magician? What? So either every magician is struggling with untreated mental illness, or these people all suck. More like Grossman didn't think his setting (where finding fulfillment is a key theme) through very well. I can buy the idea that Q is struggling with depression, but friggin *EVERYONE* is miserable in a world where all of their needs are met, even the need to pursue self-actualization. Like there aren't therapists in the magic world? The result of these two things is all the characters feel like the sort of "eccentric rich people" you see on reality TV. People who can't be happy even though they have more than they will ever need, and they are insufferable because of it. And that ruins the story for me. I can't sympathize with the characters, I can't be invested in their Big Sad. It feels like a privileged white guy exploring his own ennui. And your review confirms that feeling. I'm not saying people have to hate the book, but I cannot relate to this at all. Now the real irony is that your review makes it feel like Grossman really GETS fantasy as a genre. Like he really understands what it is we enjoy about fantasy. Your review makes me wish I could enjoy the series.

[@Metaa]

have u read naruto

[@Bob-np9xi]

THE MAGICIANS ROCK!!!! YES!!

[@andrewwright64]

I just wish the tv series was watchable, it’s the schlockiest cheeseball nonsense and nothing like the books. I hope it gets remade someday.

[@RonnyLive19881]

I really didn’t like the show at all. Quinten isn’t the same character he was in the books, it is like they took the best bits of Q and gave them to Penny. They also make the magic look stupid to me. There are two graphic novels that visualize the series much better. I love the books!

[@diamondly6250]

Just finished book 1 if more then q released the demon on the beast as the same time Alice could have been fine that is what annoyed me the most about the book. at that point only janet and alice had already used them but the rest of the group hadint

[@edmonddantes6443]

It isn’t a narrative net positive. She basically died.

[@AliceWanders]

I am someone who watched the show before knowing that there is even a book series out there, but when the show ended I needed more magicians, so I search for these books and I found them, it wasn't hard I started reading the first one I have now had it in my possession for about 2 years and I have not made it more than halfway through. The book is horrible Quinton is the worst character to be inside the head of, an absolutely nothing has happened I tried to sit down and listen to it as an audiobook hoping it would get better, I made it until they got to fillory and then I decided it wasn't worth it anymore

[@misterkite]

Oh.. not the books by Feist. :)

[@Ranger_of_Dragons]

I loved the books. I agree that they definitely have their flaws. This is also a very rare thing for me but I think the show is actually better. I watched the show's first few seasons before I read the Trilogy. However, I don't think reading it first would have changed my opinion. The show just got me much more attached to the characters.

[@meagandavies]

Hard agree. This trilogy enraged me so much I had to comment even though I usually just lurk. It was SO GOOD, THE IDEAS WERE SO GOOD. But then WHAT, the author ran into not one but TWO cases of magical **** being used to fix/progress characters in a positive way. Hey ho my lifes a mess but let's have the fox god do his thing and I'll become exactly what I'm meant to be, a goddess. Hi ho I'm a flaming ball of rage after being dead for 7 years but being railed has completely fixed me up! Come on. That's just lazy and unnecessary and I very nearly rage quit both times. I also agree the ending was so unsatisfying! All the underlying themes were pointing to magic being a corrupting force, it takes and takes and at what point does it take too much? Apparently never, you dont have to face your problems and live in the real world guys! You can be happy with magic! Have your cake and eat it too! I felt that was such a wasted opportunity. For me, it felt like it was going so hard for something really cool and dark. But then before we barreled right off the cliff, it was like nah veer to the left you know what, screw that gritty stuff and the conversation on humanity and happiness and how detrimental escapism is, lets keep the bunnies and rainbows!!! (literally, c'mon does Quentin seem like a rainbow kind of guy, why does his land have a rainbow?). Ugh. No. I wanted them to have to give up their magic lands. And maybe use magic because some of them can't give it up - because it's so insidious and it comes and seeks you out, but each time it takes a little more of their happiness and humanity, because that's what magic does in this universe. Magic is bad! Humans pay a price! They lose their bodies and their families and their belongings and their contentment with earth and the mundane. But no. No. Instead they go live happily ever after in yet another magic world with quests. The whole thing makes me so sad, because I loved it so much. But I hated those scenes and the ending, and the execution was so frustrating that I will probably never read it again.

[@colecates5554]

O.O the bad was too bad for me

[@claudiodubas7781]

You really hate Quentin. Watch the tv series, it will really please you.🤣😂

[@daviddarlingauthor]

I found the first novel, The Magicians, was all telling, no showing - for writing. The author skimmed over so many details, that the first 50% of the novel could have been summed up in a single chapter, without losing the reader. "After five years of trials and tribulations, Quentin Coldwater faces numerous opportunities for self-depravation, and does not rise to the occasion." I was told every other page that Quentin Coldwater performed magic or cast a spell, but there were no details describing such worthy of drawing the reader in to the story. Such a novel throughout made me feel the main character was a robot, performing the actions without empathy. Yes... I get it. Quentin had problems, mentally and socially, but move on. Too many things that were glossed over, that would have been an interest to the reader, that I found it painful. A whole year of schooling summed up within a few pages? Really? He just fell short of too many things to make it a good read. BUT I did finish the novel, and certain parts within did shine, hence the 2/5 rating. All in all, not my cup of tea.

[@Jackolantirn]

1 hour splash

[@superbloodwolfmoon2597]

Oh, Merph, what can I say? I think Grossman completely blew it with that “thing” at the end of book 2. I’m not against putting that in a fantasy story like this, but the way he did it was beyond disappointing. It felt like the whole reason we’re reading Julia’s story is to get to that point, to get to that terrible thing, which for me is basically porn. I didn’t appreciate it at all. I don’t read books for that. Grossman has completely lost my trust, and I will not be conitnuing with the series.

[@superbloodwolfmoon2597]

@Pierre In up to that point, I really did enjoy the book. The characters are bratty, but I thought Grossman did a very good job writing them as real people, flawed and at times very annoying, but at heart they are good people. I just didn't like how Grossman went all hentai there at the end. It felt like he included Julia in the story just for that purpose, which I really don't care for. It's a shame because it ruined whole the book for me.

[@robmarney]

This is so spot on. The series has so many awesome ideas but it's so hard to like a series where the narrator is so awful and insufferable. The show fixes a lot of the structural issues - Julia's arc is in season 1, there's a whole set of comic relief characters, etc.

[@andrewwright64]

I also have super mixed feelings on the books but I still maintain they’re one of the most important works of modern fantasy, Grossman interrogates all the right things and comes to all of the wrong conclusions, it’s wild but still such an important read for anyone wanting to touch on these genres of fantasy.

[@caitlyn.m.t9618]

I am deeply fond of these books, but they are also deeply flawed. For me, like you, it is about the themes and the melancholy of this series, as well as the writing because I generally loved it. It is not so much about the story or the world or the characters but these other things. I would say I like the worlds and the magic system, I like the influence of the childhood series on it, I like certain storylines and arcs such as Julia's just in general, and I do end up loving certain characters which were Julia, Janet, Eliot. But they don't really impact my love for the trilogy because they are not why I love it. And there are problems here, throughout this entire series, there are problems. Some of which you talked about here. Some with the execution, some with questionable decisions (aka problematic) and general wackiness of the books at times. And it makes me question, if these books are actually good, because I recognise my love is very subjective because it is about the emotions it evoked instead of anything else. But I am fond of this trilogy and I love it for what it is. Now, I am letting you know that I did watch most of the show first. I don't like reading the books an adaption is based off while I watch said adaption. Season four was bad. It was poorly written, convoluted, too many storylines and no real focus or anything that held it all together, and a whole heap of plot holes. Unpopular opinion I preferred the final episodes because it finally felt like it was a story instead of just randomness. I also have issues with the ending of that season (aka problematic) and I understand why people hated it so much because I was in the same anger. There was actually articles written about why it was so messed up. Anyways, ignoring season four, it was a moment since I watched the show, and I was reading The Atlas Six which lowkey read like magicians fanfiction (not saying that it is but the world and the magic did deeply remind me of the magicians) and it just made me think about the show. And I realised it has been long enough in which I was ready to read the books (I also did end up watching the fifth season, and it felt very pointless overall, and again very weird decisions and inconsistencies and plot holes and so on. And I will forever be mad about what they did to certain characters. I liked the dark king though). And I loved the books. But I can't compare them because they are that different. A lot of people who watched the show was disappointed by the books, because they are so different from one another. I can't even pick which one I prefer or think is better because of how different they are. I view them as two separate entities. The tone is different. Some characters are so different from their book counterparts I questioned why they used the same names. And some they changed the names to. It is unexpectedly dark but also has a fun but chaotic energy to it. They add in storylines and changes storylines. It is so different, telling you about it would be spoilers. So if you do end up watching the show, here is your heads up. It is very different, and they do make it very much their own thing. Whether they works for you or not, whether you have a preference between the two, is completely up to you. But if you want it to be a stick to the books adaption you will not be happy.

[@crimsonraen]

YES, Merphy! SO stoked to watch this video! I loved the series, and it would be STELLAR to see the series re-written and improved. I really look forward to you talking about the series, as that's basically what it is. Thanks for a really solid review, and having us re-live the series with you! I'm probably too dumb to have taken as big an issue with a lot of those scenes, but some of them (the foxes, Alice being "fixed by sex", the rape follow-up, etc.) did give me a big 'wtf' feeling. Still though, I loved reading through it overall, and just devoured it.

[@the_Nameless_One99]

I am sorry that I can't watch this because I haven't read it yet. But, I have to say that it is on my TBR, thanks to you, which does not happen anymore for any book having a below 4 star rating on Goodreads for me anymore.

[@nikoteardrop4904]

Ok, full disclosure: got a huge hedge star on my forearm. This is my favorite series (clearly), and there's a lot that frustrates me, but I also feel like that's the point, to a degree well beyond Grossman's intention. By dropping us into the head of this insufferable, entitled, breast-obsessed prick; by subverting our sense of wonder at magic, the books refuse to be pure escapism (and that's more or less a lot of what kept people from getting thru it). I read the series in 2013, at 35 (and a parent to a kid in kindergarten), and I was unsettled by how much I related to these characters (but especially Josh). Also, I'd been working mostly as a cook or barista up to that point, and something I really appreciated was the degree to which magic physically marked the magician. Much like the callouses, scars, and weirdly specialized knowledge and muscle development in food laborers, the fingers of magicians are incredibly developed to a degree not found in those who haven't worked somatic components repeatedly for years. To quote Neil Gaiman paraphrasing someone else, "A novel is a long piece of prose with something wrong with it," and that 100% applies to every book in this trilogy. Oh, in case you weren't aware, there's a graphic novel "Alice's Story" that details what Alice went through getting to Brakebills, and a comic book limited series about the first group of hedge mages accepted into Brakebills. Both are excellent. I have seriously mixed feelings about the series. I guess you could say "I both love and hate it". Good talk.

[@nikoteardrop4904]

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with using reading purely as a mode of escapism, but like, understand that not all books have any intention of scratching that particular itch, and folks in that line of thought are cutting themselves off to some of the most meaningful pieces of art we've yet created. No, I don't have a lit degree (lying), stop asking!

[@jackskellingtonsora]

​@@nikoteardrop4904 This series is very much so an introspective self-examination for those of us who do use reading as a mode of escapism. That's absolutely the entire point. Not only to talk about the darker aspects of whimsical fantasy that we escape into, but also to point the mirror at ourselves and think about why we want to escape into fantasy in the first place and what that says about us. It's not escapist at all, it's very much so about you when you read it. It's a fantasy book readers' fantasy book, basically. We all grew up reading fantasy as kids and escaping into that and we never grew out of that, we still read fantasy as adults and escape into that. Whatever that looks like, whether that be Wheel of Time, Brandon Sanderson, Game of Thrones, or whatever other fantasy we're into. We're still that kid looking to escape the real world, we're just reading longer books now. And that's fine. Nothing wrong with that in the slightest. That's just what this trilogy is about.

[@endrshdw]

I like both the books and the show. The show benefits from being written with the end in mind the whole way which saves it from a lot of the book one issues. I took the Asperger’s line to be more like the autistic comments where it was more of an excuse or self derision more than actually believing he has the real condition. Great story but not one I have felt inclined to reread lol.

[@carltonlambert7608]

I watched this as an online recommendation replacement for Supernatural. Disappointed and so weak after watching it.

[@Skyruff-the_original]

Oddly I think your review was 98% well done but then you would at a few points go off on things with a higher moral stance then you hold the rest in f the book too. I am not sure your wrong I. What you are trying to say but your point of view shews it. The largest is Julia’s rape having a net positive. You said the screen itself would be good as long as it didn’t have a net positive. First I think you missed the whole point of this as you saw her turn in to a dryad as power but it was not meant to be. She becomes wooden and emotionalless which is unfortunately a common result of such a tragedy.

[@poon3131]

Maybe this is a hot take but book one was terrible. i couldn't go on past it. But the show was amazing

[@Justus4Libertea]

I don't defend nor dislike Q. The series shows that everyone can be an asshole and protect people at the same time. The characters do grow, but they're each jerks sometimes. It shows that they each need therapy instead of taking it out on each other. Also, they sometimes don't hold it against each other. Or the opposite happens and they definitely hold it against another. Q treated Julia like trash, when she would've died for him

[@sergioaccioly5219]

You never watched the show? tsk tsk. I read the books because of the show. They are very different beasts, an the show had a built in flaw in that each season ended in a cliffhanger - that usually wasn't thought out in advance. That said, I find the show infinitely better than the books (or, at least, more entertaining). The musical episodes are AWESOME. Specially the one in S3 (didn't like the one from S4 much, though). I strongly recommend it.

[@marocat4749]

Ther eis a tv series that is good its alao, different, i mean dont get to attached to it being loyal to the book, but one thing season 2 does very well, i having julias and quentins going parallel. I think he is less insufferabl too, And stillgrat character and maybe diffferent, also good musical episodes.Also good but differnt too. Also some of the problms you mentioned are done better , like julia and her, dealing , and the i a magic abortion, and , yeah. alice and her dealing too. and he is involved and i think he know that too why they did not the same but also, i think gross knows what could have done better and do it there. Also ther i mor eo a gang o misit having to deal with stu eel. while dealing with mental health issues. And crazy ex girlriend tht really deconstructs the her hero of your own story thing. And musical.

[@acomicbooknovice8323]

“Yeah I slept with him I did what I had to do” lmao only women make this rationalization. Julia could’ve figured out another way to get what she wanted but she didn’t. Quentin had every right to judge her for that in my opinion, Julia also had the right to judge Quentin for being a shitty friend and not wanting to help her. They both realized the other person wasn’t who they thought they were in that moment and I really liked it.

[@samg4337]

Very gross way of thinking.

[@albinoverse8198]

lol theres such an irony in the fact that you loved the world and themes presented but were constantly dissappointed by the execution. Almost completely mirrors quentin's want for fillory to be fantastical adventure and disappointed to see how grim and severe a world with these rules would actually turn out to be. I had to quit after the julia scene, I cant read depictions of sexual violence, I find that a direct explicit recounting of something so horrific will always undercut it. Implication and ambiguity would have gone much farther in exploring the consequences of something like that. Literalizing it implies a distance from the trauma and that distance takes you out of whats supposed to be a first person xp. I can only speak to my own xp, but when I've recounted my trauma in therapy or otherwise, I find myself using really esoteric language, almost psychedelic, because to be unable to recount it clearly and literally is what makes it trauma, almost by definition. Really was an achilles heel of a story that had so many interesting things to say about the human condition and its a shame.

[@jimmychurch9588]

Hot take. There weren’t problematic things in this book series.

[@KMort]

I think a couple episodes after the god rape I was outta the show. I also remember Alice annoyed the fuck out of me. Delighted to know that they kept the "best" parts of the story😂

[@drinkbooks]

Quentin - Quentin is so unlikeable because we are literally inside his head. If viewed from the outside, without the internal monologue, he probably wouldn't have seemed all that much more douchey than any other guy of his age and situation (Q is an emotionally neglected, hormonal, teenage (possibly) neurodivergent overachiever who has never been valued or recognized for anything other than his grades). In fact, that might be a fun writing exercise for someone. Write a few scenes with Quentin in them from another perspective. It is important to remember that just because someone might 'think' something, doesn't mean that the 'thought' is part of where they landed in the end. (Lots of parenthesis I know, but here's another set... I don't know if Grossman is ND or not. I don't know if Q was meant to be or not. However, the way he is written most certainly presents that way very classically. So, I choose to view him through that lens and react to him that way. Just like I would do to anyone who presented but was not diagnosed or chose not to disclose. I myself am AuDHD but was undiagnosed until my 40s.) Magic - I think Grossman's theme on magic wasn't that magic corrupts but that any power does unless we learn to use it well and in the correct situations, with restraint and moderation. It is true that sometimes 'hurt people, hurt people' but it is also true that sometimes 'hurt people, try not to hurt people' and that it really is down to choosing one or the other over and over again. You could substitute 'magic' for 'money' and come to roughly the same place in a different kind of story. Having the power to do 'anything you want' is what inhibits moral development and these people will have both money and magic to do exactly that... anything. Once they leave Breakbills; they have to choose to be good people because they don't have to be, they have to choose to work hard because they don't have to. Less pressure, just like an overabundance of pressure, without any moderating influences can cause a decay of reason and acknowledgement of right and wrong. Magical Worlds - We forget, in our escapist fantasies, that we would not be better off if we were really living them. We gloss over the undeniably horrible crap that happens in fantasy stories because we think that the magical wonder of the world would make it all worth it. It's easy to judge Edmund and Susan and Quinten and Julia from the safety of our 'normal' lives, even if we identify with them. It's easy to think we would be Lucy, Alice, Peter or Elliot even when it's not likely. Narnia and Fillory are living worlds, not eutopias. For every light there is a dark and in battles and wars... there is blood, death, madness, pain and horror even for the unicorns. BUT once you have immersed yourself in the adrenaline rush that is 'adventure'... can you ever really go back? That being said, 'No matter where you go, there you are.' Everything becomes common place eventually if it happens every day. You're either satisfied with what you have or you're not and if you never are you'll never find happiness no matter where you go or what you try to do. Grossman - Plot holes everywhere. I tried to read the trilogy a second time but, I could really see the holes and didn't enjoy it as much. Distance might prompt another reread, it's been several years. Great concept though and I'm glad I experienced it. THAT Scene - I really appreciate your view on this. I can only absorb, not share. I had feelings of disgust but, having no perspective on the act, I only viewed in the light I feel like it was meant to be viewed in. There is no way to talk about my thoughts because of the sensitivity of the subject and the clinical, removed nature of my assessment. The End - To me, it was pretty much what I expected because it wasn't what it seemed like should happen. The entire story was that way. Nothing happened like it should. We didn't follow Elliot because he was on a regular hero's adventure. We didn't follow Josh because we have stories like his already. We got the Fillory story in bits because it so did NOT happen in the fluffy way it was written to be. We followed Q and the other narrative characters because... Elliot was the main character in his own story (I adore Elliot) but it wasn't his story we were reading. We were reading about the supporting cast. The story no one tells. I felt like he was telling the part of the story that made the up front, awesome, shiny bits possible, behind the scenes, the unsavory bits that get left out. In the end, Fillory couldn't exist without them all. Had any one of them not been present, it wouldn't have worked at all. I kind of link the end of the book with Lewis Caroll's quote, "...someday, you'll be old enough to read fairytales, again." Coming out on the other side of horror and finding out that there's still hope, beauty, joy... life. Quinten was trying to take over someone else's story. Fillory wasn't his story, it was the Chatwins, it was Elliot's, etc. His jealousy and envy and dissatisfaction made him grasp constantly for something that wasn't his and never was but he had to be there. I feel like Quentin realized that, if he wanted to be the hero of his own story, he had to first acknowledge the story he was in, not the one he wanted to be in. Once he did, he was able to become his own hero and Alice joined him on a new adventure.

[@johnaucamp7106]

I said this in the previous video, that despite liking some things about it, I ultimately came to loathe this series by the end of book 2. I particularly hated Julia's arc Julia. I don't think this is what Grossman intended, but my thoughts on finishing the story was this: "If you're an unhappy young woman trying to find your place in life, you should get raped by a furry, and that will give you fulfillment as a magical being away from all you knew. F*** this book."