Thomas Paine Tells Glenn Beck and the Tea Party: "You've Got it All Wrong!"

www.thomaspaine...
The Thomas Paine Society presents actor Ian Ruskin in the first of a series of TOM TALKS that will feature authors, actors, historians and others discussing Thomas Paine's ideas as they apply to contemporary society.
Presented at the Historical Castle Green in Pasadena, California January 29, 2012, in celebration of Paine's 275th birthday, this talk was part of the Society's Headstrong Evening Club, an annual event that is modeled after a debating society in Lewes, England where Paine honed his skills of persuasion.
The Thomas Paine Society is a non-profit educational organization with the mission to educate the public about the life and works of Thomas Paine.
For more information go to www.thomaspaine...

[@1969JohnnyM]

You really do need to know zero about history to think Paine was remotely right-wing, he tried to form a union of excise workers and his earliest pamphlet was for workers rights, he opposed the wealthy, the monarchy and the church and he also opposed militarism and only supported war when it was a last resort. He was the only founding father that was working class every other one was wealthy bar him so unlike them he saw the life of the lower classes. He opposed slavery and supported the successful slave uprising in the Haitian Revolution. He wanted a government scheme for pensions and an early form of socialized medicine payed for by people's taxes. Paine opposed the power of churches on government and fought against quackery.

[@PeoplePartyG1mao]

John Maddin that's not quite correct. He was a tax collector and he pleaded to the British Parliament for an income promotion. I agree that he was rather left libertarian but where did he promote workers' unions?

[@PierceKlugs]

plato.stanford.edu/entries/paine/

[@arjunahawaii]

You can't compare the "right and left" of 1776 to the "right and left" of present day America. Many on the right, today, embrace most of what Paine wrote and talked about. The baseline has shifted ... it's a pointless argument.

[@LittleImpaler]

The Left of his time was small government where right was big government. He would be considered a classic liberal or a right-wing Libertarian.

[@69adambomb69]

@@LittleImpaler paine felt that the earth was the common inherited property of all,low key commie tbh

[@JimmyeDallas]

The remarkable thing about Thomas Paine is that he can still simply and understandably argue the political, economic, and social ideals of the Enlightenment to an audience over 200 year later. The Rights of Man, for a great deal articulates Paine's obviously controversial deistic and anti-Christian beliefs, and the repugnance of Christian theology. I found that to be one of the greatests acts of literary martyrdom in American history.

[@anothertime1282]

Surely The Age of Reason rather than The Rights of Man.

[@RobSinclaire]

Excellent! Ian: Thank You (and all those dear to you) your Thomas Paine is amazing and wonderful to watch. Thanks also to the TP Society!

[@nthperson]

I had the great pleasure of attending Ian Ruskin's portrayal of Thomas Paine earlier this year. Paine's life and work have long been a focus of my own research and lecturing. An interesting possibility not entertained by other historians is that Paine departed for N.A. charged with delivering messages to key colonial leaders, messages Franklin could not entrust to anyone who might be detained by British authorities. Franklin, still in London, was already under suspicion for sedition.

[@jokerofMI6]

A great Man, a noble Man, born either into the wrong Time, or onto the wrong Planet.

[@paineite]

+Cinematic Gaming : must differ with you on this. I'm grateful he was born right exactly when he was ... and lived the life he lived. We need compatriots with his buoyancy and obstinate optimism right now. Stand in the place where you live.

[@syasya3722]

WE NEED U BACK PAINE!!!!!!!!!

[@MarkPelta]

I just stumbled across this...In a better world, this would be viral! Beautiful! I hope the Thomas Paine Society uploads more videos onto youtube. Our national life could use a bit more Paine. Remember folks, if it's not on youtube, it didn't happen! :)

[@Pigpigpigpigpigpigpigpigpigpig]

Even more so now

[@charleskesner1302]

Wonderful presentation. His message to us is timeless.Thanks.

[@paulnugent9937]

Ian Ruskin and Thomas Paine are both excellent...

[@DonCDXX]

Thomas Paine was ahead of his time. The masses have moved towards believing the same as him even as so few know anything about him. Things Paine believed in: Abolition of slavery w/reparations Women's rights Universal suffrage Abolishing the death penalty Freedom of/from religion UBI (an early form) Public education He accomplished none of these in his life and his contributions to the US and French revolutions, but his writings were the seed for successive generations to bring about many of these changes.

[@carolebarker2195]

And now all of those things have been weaponised against us by authoritarian governments.

[@joeruiz4010]

Freedom of Religion but NOT "Freedom From Religion". That's State-Imosed Atheism like North Korea has. Aka, Religion is outlawed. Paine was a staunch advocate of Individual Property Rights, Private Weapons Ownership, Right Of Legal Will to pass down Wealth to descendants, and Co-Equal Government Institutions inspired by the The Roman Republic.

[@clydesight]

Wonderful! Thank you for posting this.

[@1969JohnnyM]

I've read Thomas Paine and you soon realise that people like Glen Beck have either not read Paine, didn't understand his writing or they are hoping their viewers haven't read Paine's books.

[@ruwanweerakkody5411]

Wonderful presentation! Thank you. Saving this video for future reference; the closing music is spot on, that is the theme from the John Adams series and is more fitting for Paine.

[@hootarosetagaya]

Best foundung father ! From Tokyo.

[@RobWillhelm]

TP was not a founding father.

[@TonyGreen13CA]

Paine was a classical liberal. Not a liberal by today's standards

[@ygolonacable]

Glenn Beck (Mormon) naming his book after Thomas Paine's (Deist) is hilarious.

[@kj475]

Just the opposite, it is laudable that Beck would do this. After all, Glenn has always been clear that he doesn't accept or reject ideas solely based on a person's theology. Your post says more about you than it does him.

[@murdockscott]

Thank you so much for this.

[@RobSinclaire]

Once again Thank You this is Great!

[@timunderwood4314]

America had good ideas a couple centuries ago.

[@painesociety]

Coming Soon! We are currently editing our next Tom Talk featuring the brilliant writer Lewis Lapham, former publisher of Harper's Magaziine and current publisher of Lapham's Quarterly. We welcome suggestions for future Tom Talkers.

[@Lukeor]

No he did not support social security, he supported old age benefits but not a ponzi scheme of wealth redistribution under the guise of a retirement program. He did not support welfare either, he was more in support of something that would protect people from unemployment, not subsidize their ability to stay home. NONE of this did he support being done by a federal government through taxes on their income.

[@Raydensheraj]

Your lying or you just must have never read Paine's "Agrarian Justice".

[@grahamluna6935]

​@@Raydensherajare you saying; if Paine was alive today he'd be a `world economic form` member? WEF Motto; "you will own nothing and be happy"

[@johnydangerously1]

Very nice lecture, thanks for sharing!

[@paineite]

Nice job, Ian and friends.

[@akashashen]

I would love to see a Tom Talks (I'm assuming the vain of TED Talks) as a regular thing, perhaps with more Enlightenment philosophers and politicians. I know as a TPS focus, it's not likely on the horizon; yet, it seems like a good place to start such a focus. Other similar societies getting together a TOM Talks KZbin channel...

[@p.a.andrews7772]

We The People), must demand The (Freedom of The Press) needed to be Free ! Fight Fascism !!!

[@woofalot13]

As a Brit i think sadly i would have been traitor back then . It must have been very difficult for many of the colonists and many at home as we are naturally quite a loyal lot .

[@lamusic1996]

Loyal to what? To bunch of people without jobs who proclaimed they are special- royals, kings....That is nonsense.

[@jeremywilliams3465]

Edmond Burke is a smart Man as well

[@trfghvtt680]

@@lamusic1996 loyalty to the monarchy, as erroneous as it is, was and still is considered by many as loyalty to their countrymen. Even when it is known that their monarchy is just a bunch of inbred pompous morons. Sometimes one has to support what they despise in order to protect what they love.

[@lamusic1996]

@@trfghvtt680 Thank you for your reply. I am trying to understand what you said. My question is- can one leave to history what they despise and still protect and treasure what they love? In my books, the nation without monarchy is free and it takes all responsibility following democracy. We don’t need them to build healthy society.

[@thewikingv-log7614]

Hello, i'm an 18 year old who is interested in politics and philosophy. I'm an admirer of Thomas Paine, and i have some ideas on how to best govern a nation. I'm going to write down propositions in short sentences. Unconditional basic income, guaranteed access to water, electricity, the Internet, healthcare, public transportation and other things, make it so that low and most medium income households don't pay income tax, tax money corporations(Banks, Funds etc.) more to compensate. I will probably write more some other time. Good bye!

[@thewikingv-log7614]

I must state that i'm not from the USA(i'm from Sweden) and that english is my secondary language.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

Sounds like you are about to become a Social Credit advocate. It's what you are saying without taxes, a stipend from the government called a 'cultural dividend', war is voted on by popular vote ( with those who vote for as the first draft followed by volunteers) and a right to privacy for all.

[@nthperson]

Listen again to what Ian Ruskin says (as Thomas Paine) about the proper and just relationship between people and the land. We are rightfully tenants of the land and not owners. We legitimately own only that which we produce (e.g., our houses and other capital goods and products). The land is a commons, access to which justly requires the payment to society of a market-determined annual ground rent charge. Once we have made this payment of "ground rent" to society, our financial obligation to pay for public goods and services has been fulfilled. We should be subjected to no other taxation as to tax our earned income and our real property is to confiscate what is legitimately ours.

[@renewed6250]

It is great that you are interested! I was happy to read this. Regardless of what anyone labels your ideas, keep having them, keep questioning them, keep reading the ideas of others (And their debates...Hobbes/Locke...Paine/Adams...etc.). Simply put - educate yourself as best as possible, which is easy with the internet - many classic writings are available for free as PDFs. Then - make your own presidential agenda, and then - destroy it (as in, critically vet it). Whatever you are left with, start all over again. Politics is more like SDLC (systems development life cycle in IT) than it is "Delivery of one idea"...it continuously evolves. Most importantly - the direction towards general freedom is the trajectory, which is a good thing. Stay motivated! Glad to hear you are inspired (more than can be said of most people).

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

Renewed Wish the US had someone like that running. I would vote for him/her/it at the drop of a hat.

[@garysanders6091]

to my recollection thomas paine conceptualized individualism and personal responsibility as freedom, he would consider government owned and ran welfare as a stepping stone to tyranny.

[@TheOneHolyMackerel]

Have you read Agrarian Justice?

[@alainelowell7844]

Gary Sanders Please read Agrarian Justice and Rights of Man.

[@darris321]

[22] To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property: [23] And also, the sum of ten pounds per annum, during life, to every person now living, of the age of fifty years, and to all others as they shall arrive at that age. Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice

[@florenmage]

Someone use voodoo magic to bring Thomas Paine back to life.HE NEEDS TO BE PRESIDENT!!!...

[@sparkymarshall348]

Really? Why? This is a fool's paradise. Paine's vision of "rights" has come to pass, and we are wallowing in it today, ready to collapse under its oppressive weight. Read "The Great Debate", and (hopefully) you will understand why Paine's thoughts sound peachy, but don't actually work with real people. His nemesis, Edmund Burke, was by far the wiser, and truly understood what it takes to have a content and happy society.

[@lisadonnelly3729]

+Sparky Marshall You think his thoughts were peachy? i think that's not nice. i am a descendant of Thomas Paine he is from my grandmothers side of the family and i think he had great thoughts and wanted to help the community.

[@arcsound]

+iwonnatube Paine's belief that universal rights included taking from one man to the benefit of another is playing out today in America. You have a "right" to an education, free medicine and a job according to Paine's "enlightened" thinking. The reality is that none of those things are rights, they are nice to haves, based entirely on the wealth creating engine of a given society. Simple rule: it is not a right if you have to take from one person to give to another. If you are forcing a doctor to treat you, at the point of the spear, it is not a right.... Edmund Burke understood two fundamental truths that Paine kept hitting his head against in an effort to refute them: 1) our fundamental right is our ability to be free from coercion and our right to defend ourselves, as individuals and 2) slow, evolutionary change, rather than knee-jerk revolutionary upheaval, is much better for society, and promotes societal longevity. Something, by the way, our young Sandernista's have yet to learn.   "The Great Debate" is an enlightening book that looks closely and carefully at the lifelong argument between Paine and Burke. While Paine starts out life with noble thoughts and words, in defending colonial America's right to self determination, he goes off the rails with his later support of the French Revolution, where "fraternity" ( i.e. socialism) trumps "liberty" (the rights of the individual, ending in a bloodbath for the French. The major difference that made our effort work, while the French end in disaster, is that the colonials knew enough to put the emphasis on Liberty; especially property rights. Property rights are the cornerstone of a just and happy society. You trample on property rights, you dance with the devil.

[@arcsound]

+arcsound btw-don't confuse personal liberty with liberty from the Monarch or from the Church. Sure, Paine was for "liberty" from the King or Christ, but he turned over those liberties to a bunch of knife-wielding Jacobites. If you Paine supporters were such big Liberty fans, you would also want to defend our modern day liberties against the tyranny of the state in the form the the EPA, IRS, ATF, etc. Instead, Left-leaning Paine admirers are "peachy" with the growing power of the state. I'm not sure Paine would agree.

[@arcsound]

"Are you still with us mentally"? That is jibberish. Property rights, aside from slaves which we have clearly moved away from, are the cornerstone of modern, stable and contented societies. When you invoke fairy tales of Indian original ownership, you turn the discussion into a ridiculous waste of time. BTW, the Indians were not supposed to consider land to be property, like the European, and they never really amounted to much culturally, did they? Or now you are going to argue that their society was the equal or better than western culture? Remind me next time you reach for that root balm instead of antibiotics.... or ponder who was able to visit another heavenly body...

[@Lukeor]

Common good for Paine was about individual rights and freedom, not collective rights. Don't mistake that, they are worlds apart.

[@researchBuilding7]

They are pushing the subversion of ideology so hard. It will put people 6 feet under real quick. As it did throughout the 20th century.

[@Raydensheraj]

Really? Like his ideas of social security? The hardcore separation of state and church he wanted...? I think you might want to read his works or about him.... He surely would be disgusted concerning the modern southern Strategy neo confederate party of Trump. Paine was a Liberal. And a hardcore standing for democracy.

[@ShellshockDM187]

​@@RaydensherajHe was a classical Liberal and would despise Joe Biden and the Democratic party. He may have wrote for proto social programs but he still was against big governments. Also he still retains Libertarian values like anti-imperialism, property rights, 10 percent low flat taxes and gun rights. He would certainly oppose the progressive liberals today I know for sure.

[@lamusic1996]

He IS founding father of the USA! Against slavery, against London at that times, against religion running our government, for democracy, for people shaping our lives and holding government accountable. He was talking about Social Security and Universal Income when other “ founding fathers” were owning slaves and promoting government without “property owners”....What a man!

[@pjamesbda]

Everything rests squarely on the premise that without government, people will stray from their better nature. And because of this premise, government is labeled as a "necessary evil". And yet if the people know this will happen, isn't the formation of a means to hold onto integrity, even if contrived, not in the least bit evil?

[@pjamesbda]

iwonnatube - And with our digital identities, more secure than a paper ballot, there is every reason to believe a "direct democracy" without formal representation can and should exist. But then there would be no opportunity for manipulation and coercion. People who run things are literally in shadows, in the darkness. Because innocence is preyed upon, and used to advantage the unscrupulous. Has it ever been otherwise?

[@pjamesbda]

iwonnatube - don't give up just yet. We've grown a bit jaded on account of the blatant lies we see out in the open now that you mentioned. They don't even try to hide. This won't go on forever.

[@RavenclawFtW3295]

He's often considered an honorary Founding Father, but I don't think he is. He had a fundamental misunderstanding of the American Revolution. He was the kind of man who thought people would be more united by an overthrowing of tradition, but the Declaration of Independence says that when you overthrow the forms people have become used to, they are more likely to hurt themselves than otherwise. John Adams was right about Common Sense. It's overly optimistic about human nature.

[@OnlyResponses]

Well geez, Paine supported disability, social security, low flat taxes, and welfare. Glenn Beck's argument about welfare is the size of it and the potential of welfare traps and dependency which is something Paine never touched on but to give suggested exact numbers for welfare prices in his time. To add, Paine never says anything about minimum wage (which has it's good and bad points) or many of Beck's point in his book. The issue is not to have welfare, Actor Paine, but how much. Have reason.

[@cindysavage265]

LOL. That strawman all you guys stab at! Welfare as the modern Repub considers it ended 20 years ago. We are left with food stamps, unemployment insurance, and Medicaid. Most of the food stamp recipients are children. Most of the unemployment insurance recipients see their benefits expire in 26 weeks. Medicare covers children, nursing homes residents, the elderly, and the disabled. And, still, you begrudge welfare.

[@kenhoyer8601]

He staked his whole life and reputation on what he believed. How he had true belief in the democratic system. Rallied the colonists to keep fighting ( Common Sense ) and fought himself. Many of our founding fathers , many who were Deist, did not talk much about their views on God and religion ( The Age of Reason) because of retribution from the public. He did and paid the price. Hollywood should make a movie about him or play like Hamilton Maybe get Billy Bob to play him.

[@lasaboteuse]

The dramatic irony...it burns...

[@alainelowell7844]

Thomas Paine wrote about giving back to citizens what had been lost to private property in Agrarian Justice.

[@TheAaronChand]

Paine also supported a basic income giving those over 21 £15 pounds and those over 50 £10 pound to avoid living in provety I think £15 pounds today would be around five thousand dollars

[@drg111yt]

NO. Why should the State be any more virtuous than individual people? In my long experience most people are more virtuous than politicians, yet it is politicians who hold Power and exercise coercion and extortion. This ends with the theme from "John Adams" - a contradiction; Freudian slip?

[@sharonfauber2118]

I am a direct descendant of Robert Treat Paine

[@joestalin2375]

He is a founding father....... I'm related too! How ya doin cuz?????? Tommy was bold and brave ? How did he fare after the revolution?

[@idicula1979]

or to more poetically put it "his was the pen that changed the world", Mathew Idicula circa 4/27/13 2:54 pm.

[@garysanders6091]

I've read both common sense and age of reason.. i can't recall paine saying anything about welfare or medicare.. i feel like this is just what the narrator/actor wants thomas paine to be like, not what he actually is to our knowledge.

[@renewed6250]

Read Agrarian Justice.

[@paineite]

+Gary Sanders You'll also fine it in RIGHTS OF MAN as well as AGRARIAN JUSTICE.

[@paineite]

+Gary Sanders In fact, in RIGHTS OF MAN he advocates an almost 100% confiscatory tax on income that would be something a little above 3M per annum today.

[@robertcole9391]

+Gary Sanders Most of the post here also failed to read the Crises. Regardless if it is far left or far right.. truth, depending on the need at the moment, will lie somewhere in the middle. Yes there are times when the need of the few out weigh the needs of the many.. but ... you also have to keep the needs of the few in check. If not.. it's like a rabies stricken dog unleashed. Further, in Paine's last book that was published after his death, Age of Enlightenment, many forget that he was ill.. They took many ramblings and try to produce a false thought book. The best part of Paine was written in 'The Crises'. And it's being once again unfolded before the masses.

[@MrJamberee]

He didn't say anything about international air travel or nuclear weapons, either, nitwit.

[@artisanrox]

Good stuff. i'll raise a drink to you, good sir for calling out the crapulous masses where they need be called out. :)

[@RobertMahoney1969]

Clearly Glenn Beck lives in their heads rent free. . Went to their website and on their blog they have a posting with the date of 5/28/14 slamming Glenn Beck. I clicked on it and it was from an article from the Pasadena Weekly dated 11/12/09...really? Is that all you have? I'm no fan of Glenn Beck but I will say you guys have some derangement when it comes to him. Why don't you guys honor Paine's memory and take on the NSA, DHS, FISA, the killing of American citizens with drones with no trial etc. Probably because you voted for the guy who took Bush's policies and greatly strengthened and expanded them.

[@Raydensheraj]

Glenn Beck and the cult of Trump are neo confederate Christian Nationalist traitors.

[@Mr.C-Mister]

5:38 morality and virtue is found in Jesus Christ. Adam and Eve lost it roughly 6,000 years ago. So to think man could simply live without a governing presence is ignorant. We see this time and time again in the Gospels how man always fall short. Thank God for sending his only begotten Son to die for all of mankind. Trust in him and seek him.

[@LeechWoman]

yes, that is the fire place where pinhead hit thersea on the head

[@2msvalkyrie529]

Who was greater I wonder : Paine or Voltaire ?

[@Raydensheraj]

Both were great...

[@Anon1gh3]

Voltaire was definitely a Jesuit spook. Paine was a pain in the *** to the (((powers that be))), both then and now.

[@janalinekova-slezakova9876]

I love and admire both men.

[@Raydensheraj]

Pristine acting....

[@soulvaccination8679]

The Tea Party and Glen Beck had it right after all.

[@Raydensheraj]

Pahahahahahahaha riiiiggghhht....neo Confederate Christian Nationalists that support insurrections and hate America are right? Are you a Russian or an anti american Trump cultist?

[@joestalin2375]

@@Raydensheraj M. A. G. A. Not hate...... A M R G but prosperity!!!!!! K E E A your a nut if you can't tell the E R A I difference. I T N How do you get the word cult ! C your being militaristic for sure ! A you sound like a over board N A Z I !!!!!! Making America great is a GOOD thing and if your against it your up to no good ,get it? Peace=prosperity All Bully's get broken bones, kicked around and smashed eventually. Wisdom comes hard for people,I guess?

[@sabinrawr]

Great video! I just wish any of it (Paine advocating collective rights at the expense of individual rights) were true!

[@sabinrawr]

Cool bro!

[@socialismRules]

Fuctmentality the crown and the church claimed divine individual rights paine was for collective rights republicanism is socialism anti-individualism

[@alainelowell7844]

Bryan Shepard Hi Bryan, your wishes will come true upon reading Agrarian Justice and Rights of Man.

[@leech525]

Wait is Glenn Beck an anarchist ?

[@Ashathefree8]

No hes an oligarchist, intent on maintaining the class system of america by combating any means at which wealth can be redistributed

[@leech525]

@@Ashathefree8 can you show where he says that or points to oligarchy I always he was a theocratic populist

[@Ashathefree8]

@@leech525 The end result of his policies is oligarchy, im speaking in practical terms, not but what people say they are, but as the consequences of his actions. Is he theocratic? yes, Is he populist? Hmmm im leaning towards no, sure he tries to appeal to white conservatives, that doesnt make him a populist, populism is more than saying “we’re for the people” he certainly appealing to the group that has the most political power as a whole. Ultimately the end result of his policies would be where an elite corporate few have the most power, that is an oligarchy. Arguably the US is currently an oligarchy, but Beck would push us into that direction.

[@leech525]

@@Ashathefree8 what policy does he want that would cause us to go further into an oligarchy? I know he wants to " drain the swamp" so what would he do to make the issue worse I know he hates the federal reserve as well

[@Ashathefree8]

@@leech525 For instance his anti-welfare position, one of the few means people are actually build themselves out of the poverty is constantly being attacked by glenn beck, if people cant escape poverty, or get an education and are forced to work lower income jobs, it entrenches the political and corporate classes of america in their positions. Usually when someone says “drain the swamp” they are talking about experts and bureaucrats that function in the federal bureaucracy. And while, this is true in my personal opinion, folks like glenn beck seem much more concerned about pandemicioligists and people passing regulations on the environment, than say, the military industrial complex, although does glenn beck complain about them? Its been awhile. And again with the environmental regulations, rich generally, the environment doesn’t affect them, they can live where they want, they have the means, but to the rest of the people who cant move wherever they want, we’re stuck, and the anti-regulation policies that glenn pushes only benefits corporate class.

[@jrw89280]

Why is Karl Marx pretending to be Thomas Paine?

[@benjaminbingaman1848]

Joe West no that really is how Thomas Paine taught So that's completely his philosophy is talking Not Karl Marx

[@darris321]

I was going to say a lot of stuff, then I realized I can just say a few words and accomplish the same end. You're just wrong. Factually wrong. Your idea of Paine is wrong. Read his works.

[@jonathansalvador5037]

Evidently your bigger speech would have been just as vague and useless, but taken more words to get there.

[@danielbernardesfalcao2648]

He was wrong about the French revolution and is wrong once more. Not very good at making predictions...

[@torocastano4607]

Informative and a great idea. Performance was mediocre.

[@rexcanine9766]

rev

[@UltimateAPBTS]

🔺🔺🔺

[@rkba4923]

Horse pockery.

[@blackmichael75]

who's "we"? speak for yourself.

[@typeviic1]

Yet another Liberal Founding Father

[@renewed6250]

yeah what a hack...he detested monarchy and slavery and religion (3 of the most evil inventions of humans)...what an idiot.

[@sparkymarshall348]

Renewed He would throw out the baby with the bathwater, embracing the socialist violence of the Jacobins. Paine had a grain of insight in his writings, but it is too theoretical and underdeveloped. It is the hobbit and unicorn stuff we are suffering under now, with more than half our nation reduced to depending on state handouts. Paine's vision won out, to our detriment, but Edmund Burke had a much more sustainable and realistic understanding of how a society works. His quaint fondness for the monarchy does not diminish these truths.

[@renewed6250]

Not embracing socialist violence- but rather supporting overthrow of/separation from despotic monarchy (which by the way, is how the US was born). On government assistance; the bulk of that is medicaid for elderly, which would now include baby boomers, which skews the number, and even then...the number is 49% - so not more than half. Not to mention the recession, as well as the difficulty in economic turn around. Burke - recognized the errors of the "royals" and openly critcized them. He simply was not sure about independence - of which, I am sure. Intelligent - yes. Had some good ideas - yes. On the wrong side of the independence argument - YES. If you would prefer a monarchy or some Randian dystopia to having a government that is a combination of capitalism economically, with socialist programs for those who need it or to help support the old...then I guess that is just what you would prefer.

[@dmoneytron]

+Sparky Marshall Burke was a monarchist and sycophant of aristocracy. Anyone who looks at him for wisdom is another bootlicker.

[@arcsound]

+dmoneytron Burke understood that gradual change allowed for progressive and sustainability, and for the greatest contentment of the public. That is a good thing. Paine never stopped embracing radical change, even when he saw the destructive nature it supported, vis-a-vis the French Revolution. Burke would be horrified to see what happened in Venezuela these days, while I suspect Paine would have been cheering the socialists on. How about you?

[@jaynalynnmedeiros5132]

it takes 2 sides to complete a pair of wings. your problems are your perspective people. When will we see past two partys and recongnize we are one party with two veiws...

[@PierceKlugs]

I agree, we may never have that thought ever again.

[@alainelowell7844]

Sorry Gary your recollection is faulty. Please read Agrarian Justice by Thomas Paine to see what he really believed.

[@hywel4605]

who is gary