Three fantasies related to ground rods at metal light poles. MikeHolt.com/Fantasies

Ground rods are sometimes installed at metal light poles with good intentions. They are not required by the NEC and serve no value. Watch MikeHolt.com/Fantasies to understand why.

[@ValenceFlux]

This whole situation with a light pole at a public pool is where I got such a shock to the leg I thought I felt it pull through my back and out my arm. The beginning of the end of my career. To this day people don't seem to understand the risks of it and how it works. Thanks for all the courses. We looked up to those willing to teach us right.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Wow you survived... I've been on too many cases where young kids get killed touching a metal pole that is connected to a ground rod and no circuit equipment 'grounding' conductor is connected to the pole in violation of 410.30(B)(5).

[@Oldhogleg]

Yeah the whole point is to eliminate voltage differential without creating multipaths.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

@@Oldhogleg no... please watch MikeHolt.com/Fantasies

[@solargod3671]

Love the videos in the field Mr Hold . Keep giving us the knowledge so we can be better in the field.

[@trevorstevenson4038]

Get after it Mike! Your videos have transformed and upgraded my electrical understanding. I am an electrician in Australia.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Wow, really! Thank you. I have lots of barefoot waterski Ausi friends.

[@AggieBeast]

Really enjoyed the video Mike! You helped me truly grasp an understanding of grounding that I couldn’t before!

[@johnkulpowich5260]

Thanks Mike. From a old dog. Who doesn't know it all. Always listening

[@MikeHoltNEC]

None of us know it all. I'm learning everyday and I'm not too proud about that.

[@chato12377]

Its amazing how many conversations I've had with electricians where I as a self taught non licensed homeowner school them in theory. Grounding and bonding theory is the life blood of this career field. Maybe I'm wrong though I ain't an electrician but I love your grounding and bonding literature.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Thank you. Nonelectrical professionals are easy to educate. Please watch my video MikeHolt.com/Fantasies.

[@markg5880]

the man the legend. MIKE HOLT

[@gerardotorres7904]

What about ground rod for a subpanel at 250 ft from the main panel is that a requirement?

[@larrylawson5172]

It is a subpanel. It is grounded at the service disconnect (NEC 250). A second ground rod provides the opportunity for lightening voltage to travel up the first ground rod, pass through every grounded panel, conduit, box, fixture, motor, appliance, computer, electrically sensitive equipment and insurance claim then back down the other ground rod to return to source (the earth). Mike has interesting videos from a couple of years back with very nice graphics.

[@gerardotorres7904]

@@larrylawson5172 thanks for the answer

[@code3responsevideos872]

⁠​⁠@@larrylawson5172also a lightening strike to one of the bonded metal parts nearest the subpanel (think metal building) would give it a path to earth. As opposed to possibly energizing the bonded parts where it could enter a person.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

The remote building disconnect is required to be grounded to an electrode in accordance with 250.32(A). In addition an equipment grounding conductor with the feeder must terminate to the disconnect in accordance with 250.32(B).

[@Christ_is_King951]

I’ve built radio towers, they require ground rods at the base of the tower as well as the top (for lightning protection) we always have power ran to the base of the tower….. what do we do in this instance? keep the grounds separate?

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Radio towers are build to the specifications, which is beyond the scope of the NEC. These 'radial' grounding configurations are intended to assist in directing the lightning 'direct' strike away from the receiving equipment. AI says ... "Here are some tips for radial grounding of radio towers: Number of radials The number of radials needed depends on the length of the antenna. Shorter antennas may need many radials for reasonable efficiency, while longer antennas may only need a few. However, adding more than four radials may not provide much additional benefit. Radial bends Radials can bend gradually around obstacles or to follow the terrain, but sharp bends can add inductance and cause lightning to look for an easier way to ground. Any conductor that will carry lightning current should have a bending radius of at least 8 inches. Maintenance Ground systems typically require some maintenance, especially if site conditions are poor. The area around the tower bases should be kept free of weeds and brush, and tree and plant roots should be monitored. Regular mowing and spraying can help keep the area looking neat and reduce damage to the radial wires and ground straps.

[@nicholasnokes3188]

Awesome great looking hat.

[@cezarvancea]

I have a metal pole fed by 3 wires: ground, null and phase 230V). I've already connected the groundc onnection to pole body. Is there any good reason to now add a new grounding rod to the pole? If not, does it do any harm in doing so? (hose grounding will them be connected to this new pole rod..) Thanks.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

I don't know what 'null' means. The circuit to the metal pole, in accordance with the National Electrical Code in the US must contain an equipment grounding conductor [410.30(B)(5)]. Please watch MikeHolt.com/Fundamentals. Adding a ground rod or not to a metal light pole does not add any value nor does it cause any harm.

[@cezarvancea]

@@MikeHoltNEC I am in disbelief that so many states mandate the use of pole grounding rods for nothing. I mean.. why would they even bother if it has no use? In my country, (Romania), I see all light poles grounded.. on the streets.. in the parks.. you name it!

[@MikeHoltNEC]

@@cezarvancea No state in the US requires a ground rod at a metal light pole!

[@K2teknik.]

Look into what earthing/grounding system you have, it is TN-S or TN-CS, from your description we can count TN-C out. With TN-CS you have current in the PEN conductor shared with whatever stuff that is connected to that circuit, this fact can create "stray voltage" (wrong wording, but best we got) on your PE and N conductor with reference to earth/ground, when you connect/bond your metal part, that is already bonded to PE, to a ground rod this stray voltage will still be present, your PE conductor wins that battle, the stray voltage may be small, like milivolt or it can be measured in volts, sometimes it is a problem like at some farmers or swimming-pool owners, it all depend. The takeaway is that grounding to a ground rod is not a safety measurement in its own.

[@gusc6785]

So what about protecting against from a short to the pole and not just lightning. Also wouldn't a ground rod just create a ground loop to the J hooks from the metal pole's foundation ? Or ground loop from the J hooks (threaded rebar the nuts go on to hold the pole base)?.

[@Bryankrall8090]

There is a grounding conductor that will carry that current back to the panel and trip the breaker.

[@gusc6785]

But wouldn't the grounding rod negate that ? As it loops yo the j hooks ? Just like in a house 2 rods too close together ( must be 6ft apart I believe) . Guess only way to find out is to create a mock up m see for myself .

[@stevenhansen5453]

Mikes done the experiments. Search through his stuff.

[@toddtaylor7136]

@@gusc6785 No. It's basic theory. Electricity is trying to get back to source, not ground! The source in that situation is back through the equipment grounding conductor (green wire) to the panelboard that serves the circuit, through the main bonding jumper, and back to the transformer serving the system.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

What a great response! You are my hero for today.

[@Icehso140]

At $90/hour if the customer wants ground rods at the poles because he thinks they're a "structure", I put them in, collect my money and move on. Customers have lots of weird fantasies. This is one I can get paid for that does not violate code. I'm not taking advantage of a customer if he insists and it's in the specs. Code is still minimum after all, and it's his money.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Spoken like a true businessman, I like your attitude.

[@Floyd..B]

Good points. It is normal for me to not be able to access your website without using a VPN (I'm from France) ? Maybe it has something to do with EU GDPR and cookies ?

[@brianhouse5983]

Yes. You need a VPN in any country that doesn't use the NEC. Cuts down on the number of bots hitting our site.

[@Floyd..B]

@@brianhouse5983 Thank you for the explanation. 🙂

[@MrMcShroom]

I recently had a contract where the utility company provided the light poles and electricity from them. In this case, each pole had a photocell. Each pole was always live, being fed straight from the utlity transformer. There was no disconnecting means. Would this be a valid use case of the ground rod, seeing as it is fed straight from the transformer? Also, I know I commented on your other video. Been busy with school unable to watch the video yet, but I promise I will watch it.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Watch MikeHolt.com/Fantasies and let me know what you think the answer is. Note: Nothing can be more dangerous than a metal light pole where the circuit to the pole has no overcurrent protection and no equipment grounding conductor bonded to the metal pole. Because there is a ground rod connected to the pole, in the even of a ground fault, not only can one get shocked by touching the metal pole but they can also get shocked by touching the ground rod or simply walking close to the metal pole... Watch MikeHolt.com/Fantasies.

[@mikesmenagerie6392]

Why do ground rods have to be so fricken long? In lava zones it's almost impossible to drive one very deep. EVEAN put in at an angle is tough.

[@glenmartin2437]

Thanks, again.

[@n0dedotorg]

Don't you still want lightning to have the best possible path to ground instead of your equipment wiring carrying it all to the surge protector device?

[@MikeHoltNEC]

A ground rod connected to a metal light pole is not going to make any difference from a direct lightning strike.

[@n0dedotorg]

@MikeHoltNEC What about an indirect lightning strike? What if the pole foundation itself isn't providing a good ground?

[@MikeHoltNEC]

A ground rod serves no value ever at a metal light pole.

[@n0dedotorg]

@@MikeHoltNEC NEC 250.32 and 250.54 is telling me that a pole containing electrical wiring (such as for a camera) requires a grounding electrode system.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

FALSE

[@FosterFarmsOk]

Engineers make us do it because they don't know any different

[@xephael3485]

Not electrical engineers 😜

[@0786RICARDO]

Also, I don't think it's required by the NEC, is it?

[@FosterFarmsOk]

Nope. If it was Mike would tell ya

[@MikeHoltNEC]

No the NEC does not require the metal pole of a light fixture to be connected to a ground rod. That is what this reel is about.

[@RyanElectrician]

Awesome video. Electrical isnt the issue. People are... Managers and customers are convinced and still call for it 😭

[@bogdan78pop]

Sometimes those poles work on 480V .....you really don't want to see how it feels....!!!

[@keything8487]

awesome !!!!

[@thisgame1499]

I guess you could make the argument that the ground rod could help reduce potential to ground in the event of a ground fault with a corroded E.G.C. connection in the pole. At least in the sense of someone standing barefoot and touching the pole.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

That argument is 100% false. Watch MikeHolt.com/Fantasies to learn why.

[@xephael3485]

Thor 🔱 approves of this short

[@MikeHoltNEC]

Lol... good one.

[@samfish6938]

you should explain why not

[@MikeHoltNEC]

I actually did by giving the link to MikeHolt.com/Fantasies. Watch this now.

[@atubebuff]

Sorry but that ground rod is protecting the pole. There are no wires inside the pole because the light is fed by PV as you can see at 0:08.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

What is it protecting and what Code rule?

[@atubebuff]

@@MikeHoltNEC The PV system. 690.41B.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

@@atubebuff 690.41(B) has nothing to do with connecting a metal pole to a ground rod. 690.41(B) is about GFDI protection (part of the dc-dc converter) for PV dc circuits exceeding 30V or 8A.

[@atubebuff]

@@MikeHoltNEC How many watts is the PV fed light? Is an ungrounded PV system considering acceptable? I suggest we climb the pole and get to the bottom of this.

[@MikeHoltNEC]

@@atubebuff I loved 'climb the pole to get to the bottom...' Making my day after so many crap responses.

[@PTAdeejay]

Its a solar powered light; you can clearly see the PV panel on top of the pole at the beginning of the video. All the electronics are self contained up top meaning there aren’t any conductors coming down the pole. That ground rod is just connected to the pole lol😅

[@MikeHoltNEC]

I know... crazy right.