Three Fantasy RPGs Better than D&D (at some things)

[@DavidMiller-dt8mx]

Runequest is a fantastic, all-around rpg that makes a ton of sense, and Gloranthan lore is incredible.

[@MP-uw1qc]

Absolutely, played it since the mid-1980s. It is also going through a bit of a renaissance with the latest version.

[@marcbennett9232]

Imo earthdawn deserves to be on this list. Disciplines in earthdawn are more character defining than a normal class but most players will feel comfortable relating to them like a class.

[@matthewconstantine5015]

For a long time I said Earthdawn was the closest thing to D&D that I'd run. Now it's been replaced in that category by Dungeon Crawl Classics, but I still have really fond memories of playing it back in the 90s. My GM went on to be line editor (I think that was/is his position) for the 4th edition. Apparently my character and some of the others from our game made it into that edition as examples.

[@marcbennett9232]

@@matthewconstantine5015 that's pretty cool. I'm likely going to be running a 4e game soon.

[@matthewconstantine5015]

@@marcbennett9232, cool. If you see a reference to Silar (I think that was the spelling, but it's been 25+ years) the T'Skrang Archer, that was me. I kinda feel bad I haven't picked up the 4th Ed., but I still have all my 1st Ed. stuff & haven't taken it off the shelf since the game wrapped in the 90s.

[@Tomicrat]

Earthdawn has evolved quite a bit. It was one of the longest campaigns that I was in (troll swordmaster).

[@marcbennett9232]

@@matthewconstantine5015yeah if your not going to play it's kinda a waste but I still recommend it. We have a windling sky raider, an elf elementalist and an illusionist of some variety.

[@Demonskunk]

I’m a small-time TTRPG dev writing a setting/system using Savage Worlds. I’m hoping this whole D&D begone business helps us out in the long run.

[@justinchristenson8201]

Castles and Crusades deserves a spot on the list

[@nrais76]

💯

[@marxmeesterlijk]

Torchbearer has been on my radar for a while, and i'm kinda convinced. Sounds like my kind of game. I also like to shout out Forbidden Lands, the game i've been playing mostly the last years. Which has a lot of similar themes in a very nice streamlined yet tactically complex rules set.

[@UncleRiotous]

I'm very surprised not to see Old School Essentials (OSE) on your list of OSR titles. While I like Black Hack and really love DCC I've found I'm just running OSE all the time and have been for at least a year. My The One Ring 2e, Forbidden Lands and Conan books are looking forlornly at me as I keep reaching for OSE.

[@kgoblin5084]

The OSR has a LOT of both depth & breadth... with many entries not really trying that hard to truly emulate authentic old-school mechanics. I've never touched Torchbearer (although it is now most definitely on the list), but a LOT of what you described echoed stuff I've seen in OSR games. There is a noticeable line between retroclones & not-retroclones, & the only retroclone game you actually mentioned was Swords & Wizardry. I would also call attention to d100/BRP based games, of which there a quite a lot out there. The couple of big callouts I would make on OSR stuff are: * Mork Borg is most interesting for theme/setting, as opposed to mechanics. The real reason the game became popular was it's very out there visual design style... which quite honestly makes it more difficult to use as game rules. Be forewarned. Also, it has several dozen spin-offs & hacks, so more than just fantasy at this point, & certainly not just dark-fantasy/sword-&-sorcery * Most accessible retroclone is generally considered to be Old School Essentials. Like S&W, you can get the basic version for free. * Not mentioned, but Into the Odd & it's various offshoots (especially Maze Rats, Knave, & Cairn) deserve a special mention, they're rapidly becoming their own family of game rules.

[@matthewconstantine5015]

Dungeon Crawl Classics is a ton of fun. I normally don't like class/level based games, but I love DCC. A setting agnostic system I love is Basic Roleplaying, the core mechanic for Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, Stormbringer and more. I'm biased, I'm sure, because it's what I started with back in the 80s, but it's a darned fine system.

[@rdmsh]

I love old school essentials, and Basic fantasy rpg is cheap to get into

[@bluecarpettiles]

MERP deserves a mention if you want something crunchy and brutal. It’s a bit old now but apparently the revision called Against the Dark Master is very good.

[@andrewschet]

Dont forget Forbidden Lands!

[@qarsiseer]

Major props for mentioning Torchbearer! My absolute favorite dragon game! You seem to be talking about the first edition of Torchbearer, the second edition is out and addresses a couple of things houseruled by the article in your notes. (Advancement from Helping is the most notable, you can spend 1 fate to learn while helping now). My other notes on the changes: I’d play without the extra customization hacks mentioned until you get tired of them (I doubt I will honestly). The basic 9 classes you get from the base book and Lore Master’s are already a few classes, then the Scavenger’s Supplement adds even more classes with extras for demihumans. I’m sitting on years of classes to play! I’d strongly recommend making a separate single resource test for the market if you want to combine rolls (Ob = the highest price item + 1 for each extra lower cost item) for the purposes of advancement. Being honest the triple Attack strategy sounds suicidal to me, you’re going to end every conflict giving up a serious compromise that way it feels like when you could get a better result through cleaner play. I don’t think the change is necessary but I’d be interested in trying it. Anyway, I loved the vid and I love Torchbearer! I strongly recommend anyone looking for low fantasy but likes the narrative style to try it.

[@midnightgreen8319]

Dungeon Crawl Classics has the best game design I've seen in 27 years of gaming. It's ridiculously fun. The Lankhmar boxed set is also amazing and let's you have the best Sword and Sorcery games out there. I cannot recommend both of those enough.

[@NefariousKoel]

For superhero-ish high fantasy in the vein of D&D I'd also recommend Warhammer Age Of Sigmar Soulbound, Fantasy/Dragon Age, and Symbaroum. Plus the aforementioned Shadow Of The Demon Lord which is an obvious pick that uses d20. There are other greats out there, but they're a bit more gritty and deadly than these picks. I'd add Cypher System, Genesys Realms Of Terrinoth, and other "universal" RPGs but that requires a little GM work to create or convert.

[@adventurersitem-shop3050]

I recommend Fantasy Age! It's a very simple yet fun system, you roll 3d6 with one of the die of a different color and if you roll doubles the number of the unique color die is the number of points you can use to do cool stunts! Like Doing extra attacks or knocking an enemy prone! It has a great amount of support for itself and you can easily use other games of the same system (the AGE system) to plug into your main game! Like Blue Rose or the Dragon Age game! Plus Fantasy age is coming out with a second edition this month! So now is the perfect time to try it out!

[@ElwoodShort]

Runequest is still out there, it’s still an amazing game, but of course it is mechanically very different to dnd [Call of Cthulhu has its dna]

[@hanng1242]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the gods.

[@ElwoodShort]

@@hanng1242 well, that’s an endless task, just wrap your head around enough of them. [or to put it another way, focus on the ones your players follow, and that are most prevalent in the region you primarily use to play in]

[@raynaldorivera9065]

Fantasy Age, especially with the Fantasy Age Companion Book is definitely worth covering. The stunt system is a blast to play at the table. I am also reading Worlds Without Number. The campaign creation tools are really interesting and could be ported to other systems very easily.

[@yuvalgabay1023]

From what i heard fantasy age has some hp blout in later level so its kinda worries me

[@B.-T.]

@@yuvalgabay1023 Supposedly, 2nd Edition which is coming out soon will address that.

[@Jinballify]

I believe World of Darkness deserves a shout here, even if the core narrative of the old edition centered around the turn of modern millenium, mostly with Apocalypse/Gehenna narratives, and the new editions blow clear past that, for the original run there used to be at least the Dark Ages supplement for most core systems. Vampire, Werewolf and Mage, not to mention Hunter work perfectly well with a more ancient setting on their own as well.

[@ricardojuanlopeznaranjo6651]

OSR Games are not focused on Dungeons. Mostvod them (Acks, Hyperborea, OSE, etc) have more rules, adventures and supplements for wildeness and urban adventures than non D&D 5E or Railroad Finder can dream of. Also they are, for the most part, of better quality, and exploring wildernes and travelling is an adventure un itsrlf, unlike in superheroic 5E or FeatFinder.

[@chron874]

You should check out Vagabonds of Dyfed! It's a classless, narrative driven PbtA/OSR mix that has no setting attached to it, is easily hackable and uses only one dice mechanic to resolve pretty much everything! There are no attribute scores or stats, rather traits and descriptions that tell how you act in given situations, which are entirely made up by the players! Did i mention that it's super easy to homebrew content for it? And it's only 9 bucks on drivethrurpg, made by the same people that created 5 Torches Deep. Sadly it's a not really known.

[@MrBCWalker01]

Palladium Fantasy is _right there._ Been in print since the early 1980s. _STILL IN PRINT!_ No one familiar with ANY D&D edition fails to get how to play it. Plenty of real books, plenty of product, and PDFs are available. Not in the least vulnerable to WOTC's corporate screwjobs.

[@Javetts]

I adore a lot of pathfinder... The one issue I have is how they mechanically gate normal stuff. Like there are feats that let you do stuff that should have always been an option, meaning for balance, you are gated from doing those things unless you have the feat. The bigger issue is dialogue, where you "engage in conversation for 1 minute to-" Instead of just... talking, like human being (or whatever you're playing). The crunch can be good, but when it bleeds into things that do not need or are damages by such crunch, I wish it knew to back off.

[@ChibiKami]

"Like there are feats that let you do stuff that should have always been an option" this is one of my bigger complaints with the system. The most egregious example I can think of is Call Truce, which grants 1 minute of no fighting on a successful DC30 Diplomacy check. This really should be a basic rule of Diplomacy, and rolled up in the rules for calling a cease-fire (which are from the same damn book) the expanded feat taxes compared to 3e/3.5e aren't as big a deal as people say--you get 3 more feats by level 20 compared to 3.x

[@themightymash1]

This has always been my problem with Pathfinder too. I just find some of the actions and "abilities" put into feats just petty.

[@kyleharder3654]

Pathfinder 2E Beginner box is definitely worth a buy, it's good at teaching you, and my players had a blast. Yes to all of these, i'd also recommend a few others: - 13th age if you want to feel powerful and like a more "skip to the fun parts" feeling game. - Old School Essentials is Dungeons and Dragons from 1981 but reorganized to learn and reference the rules better. - Burning Wheel was mentioned but holy cow. This was unlike any other game my group and I experienced. Characters evolve and change. Combat is quick and decisive and it was designed with campaign level play in mind with cool character progression after YEARS of play. - Legend of the Five rings is eastern fantasy but I think its great. Its setting of Rokugan is one of the best settings ever and play is so refreshingly different because of the games cultural customs. - Whitehack 3E unlike the others is not a game I have played yet. But i'm excited to, because of its keyword magic system that lets mage players barter with the DM over spell HP costs, using concessions like spell components and casting time. It also has a unique D20 system where you want to roll under the target number but as high as possible. Trying new games is healthy and when you find out which parts are fun you can take their rules or the spirit of their rules with you to other games like D&D enriching it.

[@JlsvH]

Just wanna mention EZD6. It's Fun, Fast and Fre@kin' awesome!

[@lilcwa]

It’s outside of the medieval fantasy genre, but I’m pretty sure Chaosium’s Call of Cthulhu is still more popular than Pathfinder in terms of both market share and number of players, requiring some qualification to your opening statements.

[@misomiso8228]

0:59 oo what is that image from? ty

[@Darkgael]

love Torchbearer run a game with mostly 2nd ed rules with a few of my fav from 1st ed and Middarmark .my other go to Fantasy game besides D&D is Forbidden Lands from Free league

[@SneakyNinjaDog]

Numenera by Monte Cook Games gives you fantasy exploration and discovery. Unique way to create characters, fantastic art in the books and an intriquing setting.

[@lcronovt]

Have you tried ICRPG?

[@Frostrazor]

i can't believe no one has thought to mention The One Ring. That is a wonderful (low-fantasy) RPG. Best by far rendition of a Tolkien-based RPG. My favorite fantasy based RPG out there. I prefer the 1st edition by Cubicle7, but their products are obsolete. FreeLeague Press took over the license for 2nd edition which is ongoing. Both very very similar. FreeLeague is proving to be a great steward of the line and is expanding it.

[@BanjoSick]

Played that game once and as a huge Tolkien nerd, I hated it. Everything was plastrered with limits and rules. Felt like it was designed by Saruman: Rule, Order, Power. Add the abstract treasure system, the social combat rules and the balanced races (🤦🏻‍♂️) and you have nearly all bad trends of role playing in one game. I quess tastes differ, haha.

[@shawnhuls1606]

I recommend Index Card RPG or ICRPG from Runehammer.

[@eyehatescott]

Old School Essentials has entered the chat…

[@yuvalgabay1023]

Lfg and symbaroum is 2 game i bought that look very very fun . I discovered tourch barers a short time ago because i was wondering: why there isnt a game out there that the survival/travel mechanics are not the focus? So i started to create for my self that and then i discovered tourch.. didn't buy but its looks interesting

[@vogless]

Pretty much ANY RPG is better than 5E. F Wizards. F Hasbro.

[@pdubb9754]

How about featuring how 3rd party creators can keep 5e alive now that wotc has reaffirmed their access to it?

[@CharlesGriswold]

If you just want a basic fantasy game, the Basic Fantasy RPG is hard to beat. It, and all of its expansions, are 100% free to download and dirt cheap to buy as physical books. It's basically a cleaned-up, modernized version of Red Box D&D, with a few imports from AD&D (e.g. separate race and class).

[@Alloyed-RPG]

We’d love for you to check out and review Alloyed RPG!

[@BanjoSick]

Rolemaster, Forbidden Lands, The White Hack Done

[@matunusdonnerhammer3423]

Pathfinder should never be on a list with anything "not D&D". Pathfinder is D&D, no less than D&D material published by WotC. Sure it's not published by WotC, so you can avoid spending money for WotC products, but if you want to try something different, Pathfinder is certainly not it.

[@nrais76]

Torchbearer isn't a massive departure from D&D, it's a return to the beginnings of D&D.

[@Jeromy1986]

I never saw "ReD&Dit". Did people have issues with Reddit for some reason?

[@Daredhnu]

Personally I prefer to play games with entirely different systems than D&D, rather than ones that rely on the same crutches, like Star Wars RPG formerly from FFG now Renegade Studios if I'm not mistaken, or it's setting agnostic alternative Genesys, or Modiphius 2d20 games, like Fallout, Star Trek, Conan, Dishonored, Dune, then there is Traveller which is an amazing "hard sci-fi" game, there's also Warhammer Roleplay, personally I prefer the 2nd edition of that, or one of the series of 40k games from FFG, like Rogue Trader or Deathwatch.

[@captainnolan5062]

Where is The Crying Blades?

[@phaedruslive]

"This is a massive change of pace from d&d" Honestly, this is most low level campaigns and adventurers prior to about 2000.

[@reallivebluescat]

Ruins Of Symbaroum

[@DevJeremi]

You should check Fabula Ultima

[@shallendor]

Palladium Fantasy is a fun fantasy RPG!

[@ssaberwolf]

Disempowerment fantasy is my favorite genre

[@Caitlin_TheGreat]

Runequest Dragonbane Forbidden Lands _and maybe_ Symbaroum

[@StanjeBrojila]

Just an algorithm nudge

[@ronniabati]

Forbidden Lands by Free League 🤙

[@shaitanmo]

Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane

[@RicardoPM777]

👏👏👏 Pathfinder is the best!

[@theeyewizard8288]

DCC RPG

[@reallivebluescat]

Dragonbane

[@Jeromy1986]

Lamentations of The Flame Princess

[@B.-T.]

I'll pass on Dungeon World, given it being co-created by a notorious sex pest in our hobby.

[@leodouskyron5671]

Two suggestions since you got good ones on brand for D&D how about the other way: My good suggestion is Cypher System and Numerera. Very easy to get into and run. Also, if you want to make things for it is easy as heck to do so. Also it really lets you sink into a game that is very different but relatively. Easy to pick up. Palladium Fantasy Role Play - The owner of this one is famous for nearly suing WotC out is existence before they released MtG. The suit was bad but the game is old school and if you like making your own world not too bad in the old school way. But if you want a revenge buy that is targeted… here you go. FYI this can’t happen again with the OGL. The person that had the “bright idea” likely is dusting off the parachute 🪂. But CC is almost at constitutional levels of secure. But There was never a reason not to enjoy other systems. It is better for you and your table to try out a couple once on a while!

[@taejaskudva2543]

I loved Palladium! At least, the lore and the classes. And I loved RIFTS too! But the system is a little kludgey and overly old fashioned, and some friends who've written for them have had issues, so ultimately we've left it behind and just stolen the lore to use with other systems. The Savage Worlds version is RIFTS is pretty dope!

[@leodouskyron5671]

@@taejaskudva2543 I agree in all your points. Though revenge purchases are a thing for some folk. ;)