Tier list: Overrated and Underrated Composers

[@Bwv1046]

Saying bach is overrated is like saying the sun is overrated

[@NeasCZ]

The sun is overrated tho

[@chegevara8896]

no, bach VERY overrated - its true

[@Bwv1046]

@@chegevara8896 RIP to anyone who took that seriously

[@chegevara8896]

@@Bwv1046 bach is overrated, hands down!...

[@Bwv1046]

@@chegevara8896 I doubt you have listened to him

[@composingatnight]

I stopped listening when you put Bach as overrated.

[@cmonclair27]

Thanks for the heads up. Goodbye.

[@valentnl]

Don't be so fragile lol

[@artemlyubchenko3022]

Lol they literally didn’t

[@sergiobernardo1280]

same😂

[@jaikee9477]

Ironically it's the exact opposite. People tend to underrate Bach and totally overrate Mozart and Beethoven who were schoolboys in comparison.

[@culturalconfederacy782]

Saint-Saens is way underrated. His musical palate stretched from Bach to early 20th Century modernism. He also influenced several composers and was the first true international musical celebrity. Making trips to Africa and the United States for the second time in 1915. He saw the passing of several composers: Liszt, Schumann, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, etc. Saint-Saens was also the first to perform and have his music on record.

[@ardniareis3503]

Sooooo true. Saint-Saens is utterly, UTTERLY(!) underrated. Exquisite concertos for piano, violin, the amazing cello concerto, his symphonies - (nr03 in c minor!), chansons, tone poems, operas, filmmusic even(!), ...

[@nmnmnm9509]

​@@ardniareis3503 I don't think Saint-Saens or Stravinsky are really underrated, I consider Sorabji, Rodrigo, Respighi, Brian, orff ( exept carmina Burana) as underrated, especially Rodrigo is really underrated.

[@Tweeteketje]

"Bach is overrated" Ok bye

[@kidkrowtaylor]

"Tchaikovsky is overrated" Ok bye

[@Zhuzhnila]

"Mozart is overrated" Ok bye

[@peterbauer9920]

cmon, you don’t have to put all the great legendary composers low just because there popular does not mean there overrated in those times and mostly really all times, it’s because there great! Don’t have a false sophistication.

[@benrobinson-2005]

Stravinsky really is underrated

[@twocomposersonechannel]

YES! Glad to find others agree with this one. He is very highly rated of course...but could be more highly rated in my book (Angus here)

[@fulltongrace7899]

To the general public, Stravinsky’s popularity is based on his first 3 ballets: the Firebird, Petrushka and the Rite of Spring. After that he went in a different direction and lost me. So I agree perhaps underrated based on the fact that his oeuvre is generally unknown after those early ballets.

[@iainrobb2076]

I don't think so. He's most known for his first three ballets and his Symphony of Psalms. That's about right. Those four are his best compositions. There's a lot of worthwhile stuff elsewhere, but if people only listen to those four compositions, that's all the Stravinsky they really need to take to a desert island. He is still regarded as one of the best composers, maybe the best, of his century, and that's about right.

[@Tguchi26]

No.

[@Tguchi26]

@@twocomposersonechannel respectfully disagree

[@aleksm.1863]

That Scriabin isn't on this list shows how underrated he may be - perhaps simply because he is a lesser-known well-known composer.

[@twocomposersonechannel]

Oo actually we both love Scriabin. There's no real reason he's not on this list. There's just a lot of composers out there and only so much time in one video!

[@alaalfa8839]

Humans value things based on "noticing" If the music as an entity could speak for itself, it could be offended, instead of enjoying the music. If people judge composers at the same time they are judging the music for its existence instead of enjoying the music. It´s like judging a child for being born. Or it's like judging the food instead of enjoying the food.

[@ormpi1]

Fr scriabin is hypnotic

[@cubycube9924]

Scriabin probably more well known if you are a pianist, otherwise, a violinist probably wouldn’t know lol

[@ormpi1]

@@cubycube9924 lol, im a violinist. I also do piano impro, but violin is my main thing

[@dvorakslavenskiples]

Tchaikovsky overrated? Its more underrated.

[@shiroumxm2052]

chant of the cherubin OMG

[@LoganAlbright73]

Liszt is my favorite composer and I think his harmonic and formal innovation is hardly ever acknowledged. He invented the symphonic poem, was a pioneer of program music, and was one of the first composers to play with atonality. He is remembered for his virtuosity, but his contributions as a composer are so much more. Hugely underrated, I’d say.

[@cadewoolley1827]

I completely agree. His annees de pelerinage, ballades, mephisto waltzes, symphonic poems and above all his piano sonata in B minor are pinnacles of late romantic music and deserve more attention. His 'rockstar' phase was purely a source of income for him which he quickly lost interest in, instead focusing on composing wonderful music in the name of innovation. Not only that but composers of his time and beyond found great inspiration in his works. I wish he got the attention he deserved.

[@hermittraveler2163]

I'm in agreement as well. Liszt is also my favorite composer. I find it frustrating how he's often derided as a mere rockstar piano virtuoso while being overlooked as the innovative and highly influential composer he was. The symphonic poems and the Faust and Dante symphonies are some of the most exciting and enjoyable pieces of the romantic era in my opinion.

[@yeetthebeet]

late liszt people often neglect, along with wagner the greatest harmonnic experimentations pre modernism

[@ahmedyassinezerhouni5543]

+ he invented/popularized thematic transformation, the symphonic poem, the modern piano was invented by Erard to match Liszt's virtuosity, he was one of the first composers to not only play with atonality but lean towzads modal/impressionistic music that influenced Ravel and Debussy. He also was basically the creator of the masterclass, being the first teacher to give interpretation classes to many students who'd emulate themselves. Many composers like Berlioz or Wagner owe him their fame in many ways 'cause he either popularized their music by transcriptions or by conducging them in Weimar. With all that said, without Liszt, you'd have no Wagner, no Ravel, no Debussy, no Rachmaninov, no Strauss, no Schoenberg, and the list goes on ! And then people want to put him in overrated because "he doesn't do it for me"? My good sir, personal taste is one thing, but as far as achievemnts go... Liszt is EXTREMELY underrated.

[@yeetthebeet]

@@ahmedyassinezerhouni5543 its weird because liszt is almost equally as revolutionary as wagner even if wagner was FAR more influencial for modernism liszt's contribution in the mainstream eyes is almost totally forgotten like why??? who knows maybe because they are less flashy and acessible

[@math9172]

The fact that Vivaldi isn't even in the list *proves* that he's underrated xDD.

[@twocomposersonechannel]

You may be right! I personally really like Vivaldi (Angus here). I think I'd put him in 'About Right' overall...but I think a couple of bits of his output are probably overplayed, leaving some of the rest of his output underrated and underplayed

[@math9172]

@@twocomposersonechannel Oh that is _undeniably_ true, and said "bits" of his output are so obnoxiously overplayed that even bothering naming them would be utterly pointless. And it is truely a litteral bane for Vivaldi's overall image that the vast majority of his works are overshadowed by his most famous piece. To non-musicians he might be somewhat known and popular, but to a lot of musicians he's most too often overlooked as "The Four Seasons guy". Yet he wrote so many other varied pieces just as (and often more) beautiful and complex. In addition to being the most prolific cello concerto writer, he was also the first one to ever write a cello concerto, yet these works are ridiculously underplayed and unknown compared to their quality. He wrote vocal works, operas, sonatas, mandolin, organ, trombone and bassoon pieces, as well as more than 500 violin concertos, and yet all everyone's talking about is the Four Seasons (which of course is a superb piece, but seriously there are so many utter masterpieces in Vivaldi's library, so why be so obsessed with a single one???).

[@paulschlitz5256]

Vivaldi is overrated. Couldn't write counterpoint

[@liliaesperanza4436]

​Claro que sí pudo y muchas de sus piezas lo tienen que tú no las conozcas es otra cosa 🤣 ignorante​@@paulschlitz5256

[@radekstratil8532]

Bach is not overrated !!!!

[@stefanhaffner]

I think mozart is underrated because of attitudes by people like the people on the channel. Because of his popularity there is a natural reaction against it. I think he's about right for most people and underrated by musicians

[@melkor77751]

Too many notes

[@blucale8085]

Lily Boulanger's Psalm settings are amongst the best choral works of the 20th century and should be performed more regularly.

[@twocomposersonechannel]

Yes!!! Absolutely! So beautiful

[@hortleberrycircusbround9678]

I am sure Charles Ives or Maessians are way better

[@pedrohasallthepower]

​@@hortleberrycircusbround9678go check them out instead of speculating

[@late8641]

I find the fact that Sibelius isn't even on the list an abomination. He wrote the greatest violin concerto, some great symphonies and piano music, and some amazing patriotic music, like Finlandia and the Karelia suite.

[@ormpi1]

For most well informed music qritiquists, sibelius is the top 3 symphonist. And the wide range of music that he made

[@daclarinetboii]

try to find the finnish person in the comments (very hard edition)

[@RobertFBeers]

I stopped watching when they placed both Bach and Tchaikovsky as "overrated" (they are, if anything, "about right") and Saint-Säens as "about right" (criminally underrated). Three strikes make an out.

[@Emiliasooo]

Ravel si super underrated; he belongs to the top next to Boulanger. Only the classical nerds know him well. You name Ravel to a casual listener and he's going to say: "Oh yeah. The guy who made the bolero". I listened to every single piece by Ravel, and he is one of the greatest of all time.

[@akadetrorjk]

Very true

[@pepeeldelaspipas124]

I feel like Shostakovich is one of the most underrated composers but on a different way than Stravinsky. I feel that people don't go further than just the music, people don't really make time to know the context of the pieces , why some are pure dread while other are just chil. Shostakovich is heard but not understood

[@mayankprajapat4591]

Yes Shostakovich music is so meaningful and makes sense with the context of a piece, I don't think he is underrated, he music is one of the most performed in the world, but I agree that people don't take the context seriously while listening, My personal favorite are 11th symphony 8th quartet Second waltz Gadfly suite symphony

[@bruno_dias]

No artistic value is added by context that is not technological (in the sense that music production was dependent on instrument and music technology) and, well, artistic. Everything else (technological, social, historic, personal, etc.) may increase the interest about the music, about some particular pieces of music or about the composer but it does not adds or retracts to the artistic value of the music.

[@pepeeldelaspipas124]

@@bruno_dias well I disagree. As an example, when studying art (painting, sculpture...) Giving historical context and the artists intention behind it is extremely important. While you can still enjoy a painting without knowing the meaning of it or in which point in history it was painted, if you know this information you'll be able to have a deeper understanding on the subject. The same goes for music, and in my opinion, especially for Shostakovich's music, since if you don't understand the intention or context of a piece you wouldn't know why it gives such a vibe, for example, how could he write such a heart wrenching piece as his 8th quartet and such a hyper piece as his piano concerto. His quartet was intended as a suicide note, therefore the anxiety inducing music; his piano concerto was dedicated to his son, and he wanted to show his son happiness. Shostakovich is not the only composer this applies to, music that is based on an already existing story (like erlkonig) or sarcastic music, it adds more to the music if you understand it than if you don't. To give you a last example outside of music, look up the painting "las hilanderas" by Velázquez, you wouldn't understand why such a painting was made if you don't know what it's depicting, it's depicting the myth of Arachne

[@bruno_dias]

@@pepeeldelaspipas124 Your arguments don't convince me. If Beethoven had written the Cavatina from the 13th quartet to encompass happiness I'd say he was crazy but that in itself would not change the artistic value of the piece or how I feel when i listen to it. Knowing that a particular piece of music was dedicated by the author to a loved and missed one or to a hated one does not change the artistic value of it. Your understanding of a piece of art might change the way you determine your personal liking/admiration but will not change the piece or its artistic value. Shostakovitch's 8th quartet is not better because it was like his suicide note. Maybe it changes the way you feel about the piece but it is relative to you, it depends on you. Does that piece artistic value depends on your personal understanding or feeling about it? Are you that important? Does art that was made by very flawed human beings or that celebrate horrible personalities have a lesser artistic value because of it?

[@pepeeldelaspipas124]

@@bruno_dias I agree with you that understanding the background of a piece only affects the listener who knows the background, and it definitely doesn't determine which composer or piece is better, that's not what I'm trying to say. I'm saying that knowing the feelings contained by that piece will set you on a much deeper understanding of the piece and therefore a different experience when listening to it than someone who doesn't know the background. Obviously both can enjoy it or hate it. But knowing the background will give you a different perspective and you'll be able to understand or notice subtle nuances in the piece that you wouldn't have given it much thought before. And I do think it changes the listeners experience understanding the context, since it gives you this extra point of knowledge about the music and understanding of the feelings behind it.

[@theonewhoknocks6353]

Why is nobody enjoying Händel I trully love his music and I disagree with the argument that his music sounds aristocratic and if you strip away the overplayed backround of Messiah and listen to it for what it is you actually feel so emotional and I actually like Händel more than I actually like Bach

[@fulltongrace7899]

Even though they lived at the same time period, the music of Bach and Handel are as different as night and day. Handel lived in Italy for awhile and later in England. He was primarily an opera composer, whereas Bach wrote a lot of church music and keyboard pieces. I would say Handel is underrated and Bach just about right.

[@rlkinnard]

Messiah is great and so is Israel in Egypt.

[@theonewhoknocks6353]

@@rlkinnard You mean Ceasar?

[@СтефанияВишняк]

Nobody? Are you sure? He is one of the most recorded composers. He has a huge fanbase. In the top 100 great composers, he's in the top 20.

[@theonewhoknocks6353]

@@СтефанияВишняк Compared to Bach...

[@ellybargmusic]

The Stravinsky intro is very much appreciated, nice to meet you Tom and Angus :)

[@boazbarkai8981]

lets put all the great composers in overrated & the unlistenable ones in underrated, yeahhh!

[@DankChallenger]

Bach was the greatest composer to ever live, mind you

[@eduardoguerraavila8329]

Beethoven is at the same level, at least.

[@iainrobb2076]

Bach and Beethoven both share joint place at number 1.

[@dlelllfkdlelel5459]

@@eduardoguerraavila8329 Mozart is the goat

[@dlelllfkdlelel5459]

@@iainrobb2076 no Mozart, Bach and Beethoven together. But I think Mozart is the best of all three

[@iainrobb2076]

@@dlelllfkdlelel5459 'm not overly keen on Mozart, tbh. There's stuff I really like, but I find a lot of it predictable and monotonous. I'm probably in a minority. I love the Sinfonia Concertante in E Flat and the 'Jupiter' Symphony.

[@nout1972]

Handel aristocratic? Then you probably only heard his Coronation Anthems or similar stiff and pompous choral music like that? When people think about Handel it is always the awful posh chorus of his Messiah: "Hallelujah" What about his Italian operas and his oratorio? I find most of Handel's music more accessible, emotional and humane than Bach's.

[@igordrm]

Even if millions of poets were born to praise Bach's achievements, it would be impossible to express what a miracle he is. In no other art or field of human knowledge is there any figure who can compare with what Bach is to music. It took me decades to understand his music, but when I did, it was a revelation.

[@scotthullinger4684]

When cellist Pablo Casals called Bach "the God of music" ... he was quite correct indeed.

[@Luboman411]

Beethoven, also "about right" for me. Technically brilliant but also highly innovative with a huge amount of range. Ranks up there with Bach, though still doesn't hit me in the feels as much as Bach. I guess it's because all these modern movie composers have overplayed Beethoven "grandiosity" in their works, so Beethoven's many masterpieces sound more trite to me than they should. Handel, to me he's "overrated." He sounds like a second-rate Mozart who never bothered to study Bach intensively in his later years. I guess the gallant style dominant in the late 1700s is not my cup of tea. LOL.

[@ignacioclerici5341]

What a pretencious, ignorant and dumb comment. Clearly classical music is not for everyone.

[@openendedthinking4033]

Bach was nobody outside of Germany(I am personally a huge fan of Bach) and Handel had more acclaim across Europe. There would be very little reason for Handel to have studied Bach.

[@Alix777.]

Handel is one of the greatest, wonderful opera composer, an infinite inventive mind. Beethoven is overrated af and his harmonic language is so limited compared to major composers.

[@jacquespoulemer]

Hi Guys, I've been listening to classical music for 60 years now (I'm 72). I listen everyday. I'm glad you see humour as important and would like to share a humourous tale from my life. A friend of mine and I were discussing composers we liked and I started explaining how for me, over time, there is a sense of accumulation of positivity. I called it Clumping and the Composers I admired most as Clumpers (of course with a K it would be funnier, cf. The Sunshine Boys). You can also think of it as accretion discs which form asteroids, moons, planets, big gassy planets and stars. Yay Lily, Ruth, Arnold, and Francis. All the Best Jacques Mexico Retired. I'm looking forward to more of your content.

[@Hailey_Paige_1937]

My list of underrated composers: Lili Boulanger, Florence B. Price, William Grant Still, Igor Stravinsky, Olivier Messiaen, Steve Reich, Clara Schumann, Fanny Mendelssohn, Maurice Ravel, and Sergei Prokofiev. I just got this in my recommendations. I love it. Great job, you two; subscribed!

[@AngusDavisonComposer]

Great list! Thanks for subscribing!

[@fryderyckchopin484]

What about Schoenberg/Berg/Webern? They are not only underrated but also superhated

[@arielorthmann4061]

Stravinsky, Messiaen, Ravel and Prokofiev are some of the highest rated composers ever...

[@Hailey_Paige_1937]

@@arielorthmann4061 But they’re mostly known for 2-3 pieces each. At least in my area. 😂🤷🏻‍♀️ A lot of music friends I talk to say they aren’t familiar with those composers, and I just get so shocked.

[@arielorthmann4061]

@@Hailey_Paige_1937 yeah depends rated by who. In the BBC's list of the 50 greatest composers of all time (based on polls of 200 composers of today), Stravinsky ranks 2nd, Ravel 9th, Messiaen 13th.

[@therealrealludwigvanbeethoven]

Nobody is talking about Weber, who is my favourite composer by far. He was Wagner's main operatic influence --- all the way up to his splendid orchestration and recitative style --- yet does not even receive a mention here, nor by anyone in the comments.

[@SuperSparten]

I was going to mention him but I am glad you already did.

[@kidkrowtaylor]

HOLY CREAM PUFF IT'S BEETHOVEN-

[@fulltongrace7899]

What I am feeling as I listen to this is that you don’t give me the impression that you are familiar with the musical works of these composers, as you cite few examples of their work. After all it is about their music. Also each composer has popular works that earmark them (eg Beethoven’s 5th) but many pieces that are unknown or only known to the classical music enthusiast . I recommend listening to David Hurwitz videos, as in each video he gives musical examples.

[@kidkrowtaylor]

One of the most underrated composers of all time is Edvard Grieg, he's one of my favs

[@francescaemc2]

Bach overrated? Arrivederci.

[@duqueadriano0081]

Rach? Man? In? Off?

[@0live0wire0]

Bach is about right, get real.

[@poorpianism2482]

Why is Scriabin not on this list? He is one of the most underrated composers ever(imo).

[@twocomposersonechannel]

Tom here. Hard agree. Scriabin has perhaps the best body of piano work in the early 20th century and was wonderfully adventurous conceptually, rhythmically and harmonically. We had to leave so many composers so the video wouldn't be 6 weeks long.. :(

[@arielorthmann4061]

How is he underrated ? He's one of the highest rated composers, "I like it" isn't synonymous for "it's underrated"

[@amj.composer]

​@@arielorthmann4061 I agree, he is very well liked and studied, I still feel like he isn't performed enough, but it could also be a coincidence on my part.

[@arielorthmann4061]

@@amj.composer maybe not all of his works. But some, such as the Poeme de l'Extase or Prométhée are classics (and some of his best works)

[@amj.composer]

@@arielorthmann4061 For sure!!!

[@kidkrowtaylor]

How dare you say tchaikovsky is overrated

[@kidkrowtaylor]

Tchaikovsky is the GOAT

[@sofiaspiano7892]

Tchaikovsky is not overrated he's fairly rated. And Bach is also awesome

[@janach1305]

Unjustly ignored: John Dowland

[@AngusDavisonComposer]

Oo this is a good call. Perhaps we'll do a medieval/Renaissance version of this video at some point!

[@Me-uv6kc]

dowland is severely underrated!!! His music is so nice

[@Alix777.]

British composers are just irrelevant

[@_archimedes]

>completely skips Wagner because he was a "bad dude" Cringe and 1984 as fuck honestly

[@annecohen8927]

My list of underrated composers: Joaquin Rodrigo, Sergei Prokofiev. William Ross. Jerry Goldsmith, Fanny Mendelsohn.

[@twocomposersonechannel]

Thanks for watching Anne :D Hard agree on Prokofiev! We'll make a 20th-21st century tier list at some point so some of these might feature!

[@DanielSilva-gc4xz]

I don't understand why bach is in overrated. Damn, even though I know how appreciated he is, when listening to it I feel like he deserved even more recognition. He understood music completely differently. His music is so intrinsicate it sometimes feel like it couldn't have been composed by a human.

[@jesustovar2549]

I don't think Prokofiev and Jerry Goldsmith are underrated, Fanny Mendelssohn on the other hand...

[@Panoskopla]

The fact that luigi cherubini isn't mentioned even though beethoven considered him the best of his era. It makes cherubini the most underrated classical composer.

[@googleyoutubechannel8554]

Hmm, I've never heard of the 'Brock' period before, learned something from these gentlemen.

[@thetempleoflove6966]

Bach is underrated. There is no comparison with him and Mozart, Haydn or Beethoven. People put them in the same category, that's why he's underrated. Criminally

[@teresagardiner153]

No.

[@openendedthinking4033]

Among musicians Bach is overrated. Among non musicians he is underrated

[@thetempleoflove6966]

@@openendedthinking4033 I am a pianist, a guitarist and a music teacher, and I assure you that many of my colleagues, musicians, think that Bach is underrated. There are those who think the opposite too, though. There are fans of various composers among musicians too.

[@Bwv1046]

@@openendedthinking4033 says the clown

[@liliaesperanza4436]

No, Bach no está infravalorado, Vivaldi si . El fue prácticamente una de las inspiraciones de Bach, handel, telemann y prácticamente todos los del barroco tardío. Pero en esta lista ni siquiera aparece 🤷 Vivaldi es el más infravalorado de lejos.

[@lowlightpiano7110]

Repent and trust in Jesus. We deserve Hell for our sin. Lying, lusting, etc, but God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross and ride from the grave to free us from sin. If you repent and trust in him youll be saved. Romans 3:23 John 3:16❤😊❤❤

[@federicoz250]

Vivaldi is obviously the most underrated! He didn’t even made this ranking 😂 I guess that few composer realize how cleverly he composed. And by the way the general public loves him much more than Stravinsky and Mahler, who are the most overrated.

[@twocomposersonechannel]

Love Vivaldi!

[@liliaesperanza4436]

Así es. Lo más triste es que bach, handel y compañía se inspiraron en él y ni si quiera recibe el crédito correspondiente.

[@YashiiBeatzz]

mendelssohn is hella underrated

[@kidkrowtaylor]

i don't really like mendelssohn

[@Alix777.]

Minor composer, very overrated

[@Goethe-von-Voltaire]

Underrated as always I see.

[@ormpi1]

Nahh fanny and other is still boring

[@tritone11]

The guy on the right saying that Händel is on one level with Bach proves that Bach is, if anything, underrated.

[@twocomposersonechannel]

Guy on the right here! My comment was that Handel is "almost" as good as Bach. Which might just as easily prove Handel is underrated to another viewer with different tastes

[@nathanbarnes4740]

I think Handel was the equal of Bach. They were just different in their execution and influences.

[@giannipellegrini2178]

Vivaldi is not even on the list: your whole listing is overrated.

[@vrai3078]

You know who's underrated af? Charles-valentin alkan. Fucking genius composer and pianist

[@Luboman411]

Bach is "about right" for me. That man hits me in the feels more than any other composer, I STILL find great stuff of his (especially his cantatas), and his technicality/mathematical chops are way up there. Mozart is "overrated." Marvelous technical achievements. Just a bit too happy and sing-songy for me (though Mozart did get better after his Leipzig visits since he'd studied Bach intensively). Handel is also "overrated." Again, beautiful music, but not enough range. I wish you had put Vivaldi up on your list--way better than Scarlatti. He would be "about right" because, though not technically brilliant, the man could do a melody like no other. Bach even thought Vivaldi could do some good stuff, enough to imitate Vivaldi a couple of times, and I trust Bach's judgment.

[@Bwv1046]

Bach is just everything

[@SCRIABINIST]

There are some very dark works by Mozart, including the C Minor Fantasy, B Minor Adagio and A Minor Sonata

[@therealrealludwigvanbeethoven]

This view of Mozart is just depressingly uninformed.

[@teresagardiner153]

You don't understand Mozart's expressive language at all, clearly.

[@jesustovar2549]

@@SCRIABINIST Mozart minor key works can be considered the darkest ones of his production. I don't think there is a problem with his music being "happy".

[@late8641]

Being popular doesn't mean you're automatically overrated. None of the composers in the overrated category are overrated. Vivaldi is an overrated composer, not Bach.

[@autry33]

Bach overrated? Ha. That's rich.

[@mimamo]

I mean, Bach is the greatest composer of all time and most people (who know their stuff) agree he is the greatest composer of all time. So, he should be in the "About Right" category. ;)

[@KristofirWhite]

I know music and I am a college level pianist, Bach was good, but Beethoven was on another level, bach's music is restricted in the books, but beethoven broke the rules

[@user-zn1gd4jh4e]

One on the right knows nothing. He should listen to more Bach

[@hariboi8840]

Palestrina and Desprez are the really underrated composers

[@jesustovar2549]

They shuldn't be underrated, especially Palestrina, who just like Bach, he was studied and was the influence of many composers during the next century.

[@openendedthinking4033]

Their counterpoint gives Bach a run for his money

[@duqueadriano0081]

Josquin

[@arielorthmann4061]

We call him Josquin, not Desprez

[@twocomposersonechannel]

And Machaut! Absolutely phenomenal stuff: kzbin.info/www/bejne/maaaXoWMbL11b80&ab_channel=BartjeBartmans

[@salvatorecollura2692]

Listen to the Erbarme Dich and then reshoot this.

[@danbachmann8005]

You should have rated Mendelssohn… I think he is extremely underrated and he is what Mozart should have been.

[@fulltongrace7899]

Or could have been if he lived longer.

[@hortleberrycircusbround9678]

Mozart is a trillion times better than Mendelssohn. Mendelssohn is heart on yur sleeve, cheese shop slop

[@Alix777.]

Mendelssohn is lukewarm romanticism, very dull, a minor composer.

[@rubinivincent1305]

@@Alix777. he was the one that discovered Bach's music.

[@bassvibasics479]

"Transfigured Night- like Mahler, but worse..." had me roaring! Great episode, gents!

[@twocomposersonechannel]

Hahah cheers Eliot! Thanks so much for watching! :D

[@handavid6421]

I would put Bach and Haydn on underrated. And Mozart in about right. Quite suprised here. But we are talking both musicians and non-musicians and I think the scale is completely different for each group. I had enough of messiah every single christmas on the local venue goddamn let me hear some more chritmas cantatas of Bach

[@Luboman411]

But Handel's "Messiah" is popular because it's in English. Makes us English-speakers in North America happy to sing along to something so nice and traditional. German, yuck! I'm the biggest fan of Bach you will ever meet but whenever I try to sing along to his cantata lyrics, it feels like I have a frog stuck in my throat half the time. I wish Bach had been Italian. At least then the lyrics to most of his wonderful works would be easier and more pleasant to sing.

[@handavid6421]

@@Luboman411 I find Bach's way of word painting and sculpting of music around the language to be absolutely beautiful. Bach's music is German in nature - Germaness is part of bach's identity...

[@captainchaos1311]

I see no problem with aristocratic music, classical music is not simple low class music. Please stop whining about aristocracy and actually listen to the music

[@alexbublick436]

Brain dead tier list wow, you’d have to try really hard to be so wrong.

[@eeurr1306]

The pronounciation of Ravel was so bad that I couldnt even find him from searching what i heard bruh.

[@liliaesperanza4436]

El hecho que Vivaldi no aparezca lo coloca incluso mas abajo de un compositor subestimado. El fue ignorado.

[@herr_crustovsky]

Thank you!! The people who haven't heard his work outside of the Four Seasons are doing themselves a great disservice. Definitely deserves to be more appreciated.

[@ferguszade5594]

How silly and totally pointless. No Brahms, Schubert, Bruckner, Neilsen to name but a few.

[@Oryctolagus342]

Completely vacuous discussion. These two should be analyzing music whose depth is more commensurate with their level of insight.

[@ferguszade5594]

Nursery rhymes perhpas?

[@OrzoMondo]

That Stravinskij intro is génial.

[@ivanbeshkov1718]

Bach composed perhaps the greatest aria ever Liebster Jesu mein Verlangen. He also composed much dreary uninspired pieces, like the choruses in Magnificat. Mozart probably wrote the greatest song Abendempfindung that must have inspired Schubert.

[@DomFileoreum]

I was so angry about the Bach tier, but as a passionate die hard Lili Boulanger fan, you got my respect back when you talked about her

[@ishi_gho9695]

Transfigured Night is just “Mahler but worse”? Idk man, I’d recommend giving it another listen. There’s some really incredible melody and harmony towards the end

[@tammoton9494]

Arvo Pärt being the best-selling composer alive, it's too bad he's not on this list.

[@philg4116]

You're wrong. Gymnopedies #2 is different. It is the gibbous moon sailing afternoon skies.

[@irakligogiberidze262]

Okayyyyyyyyy lets act like we didnot hear anything

[@joswhite7923]

Bach overrated? A composer for all seasons, whose work is being played somewhere in the world right now. His influence spans the ages. Mozart, I have less of a problem with.

[@kentlofgren]

Bach... ?

[@LeonoraBassisty104]

The most underrated composer is Sir Arthur Sullivan to me

[@mystic13337]

The moment you put bach in overrated i want to turn the video off xD

[@BrianAndersonTT]

1:57 bro this is exactly how I feel about so many popular classical music!

[@louislagueux7323]

NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T SKIP STRAUSS LIKE THAT ; (

[@ormpi1]

Strauss is only for new years

[@louislagueux7323]

How dare you mix up Johann Strauss (the turd) to Richard Strauss (the post-romantic genius) !!!!!!@@ormpi1

[@ericleiter6179]

Tier lists are bound to upset people...but I enjoyed the video. Very good point about Berg; he was the one who made Schoenberg's techniques accessible...perhaps if there had been a Berg school instead of a Webern school, music wouldn't have been so painful in the mid 20th Century

[@AndyJackson-f5o]

Interesting discussion with many astute points. Classical music itself as a form is underrated so for a start Mozart, Handel, Bach and Tchaikovsky are not overrated. Their brilliant music should be played more often than it is and everywhere, such as cafes, schools, supermarkets, etc, so everybody can appreciate their greatness. Along with Beethoven and Haydn they have written an incredible amount of great tunes relative to many other composers.

[@4034miguel]

Ridiculous list made by two people that do not have the sufficient knowledge to do this. Bach has a great influence on Beethoven, Mozart, Bartok, etc. If he is underrated, everyone else is. To watch: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3_Ko3tuqpJ8f8U

[@FilipSandecomposer]

First of all...thanks for such a great chanel! This is so yummi for all music nerds, like me. I have so much things to say about under- or overrated composer, but Beethoven is really for me tooooo overrated. Maybe it has been too much brainwashing going on in every music education over the years, But I find Beethoven is a "great" composer more according to his glorious myth, than to accately his music. If you listen to his music without perfuming it with the "Myth Beethoven", you will find it really poor. And we also know Beethoven had a really hard time writing his music and did struggle very much with that. Many consider that to be a sign of a true genius getting thoroughly in to his idea. But it also as well much means he was not actually good at writing music!!!! And the same thing about his late works, which are being considerated so original and mindblowing. On the other hand you can say it only so bad crafterd music and that is the reason they are "original". I wish I could compose a really bad piece of musc and suddenly everyone thinks I am a genius because it is so "ingenius" or "original". But these are my opinions. Tell me if you disagree! When it comes to underrated composers, I do have so many suggestions. Let me just mention a few: Weinberger. Tubin. Szymanowsky. Scriabin, Gliere, Holst (Not reeeeally underrated...but he wrote more thatn The Planets) George Lloyd!!!! Kaiponen and many more...check them out!

[@pianiste1000]

Here is a funny story. I am 66, yet I discovered Lili Boulanger in depth only a few weeks ago, and I said to myself: “she is the greatest of all,” which is exactly your conclusion! This conclusion is related to her absolute sincerity and true almost childish devotion to God, maybe typical of the late 19th Century, if I compare her with my own grandmother. My favourite, by now, is her “Psalm 130”. I can't stop listening to this amazingly beautiful and powerful piece. Mozart is of course unsurpassed, he talks probably the best about love (K464), which is the true subject that matters in life, whilst Bach is for sure a superb craftsman who is full of devotion to an almighty yet fierce God. Anyway, whilst Bach, Mozart and Beethoven are probably the 3 greatest composers in my mind, I see a little Lili Boulanger sitting on a throne on top of them all, like a Cherubin angel, because of her unsurpassed and disarming honesty, and love.

[@therealrealludwigvanbeethoven]

Sorry, but...I disagree completely.

[@pianiste1000]

@@therealrealludwigvanbeethoven Hi. Here is another story. I was playing the piano in a restaurant. I played Moonshine Sonata part 1, and nobody seemed interested. They kept on talking loudly and eat. Then something increadible happened. I started improvising on that piece. Progressively, they stopped talking. I watched my own fingers playing, and noticed it was not really me who was governing them. I feeled connected with a strange field of almighty power. I remember I was arpeggiating a lot, and that the bass notes went stronger and stronger. When finally I stopped, the busy restaurant was totally silent, then I got a standing ovation. I talked about this with a famous New-York based piano jazz player, and he confirmed the existence of this field.

[@pianiste1000]

@@therealrealludwigvanbeethoven Voici une autre histoire. Je jouais du piano dans un restaurant. J'ai joué le premier mouvement de la sonate au Clair de Lune, mais personne ne semblait intéressé. Les clients continuaient à parler bruyamment et à manger goulument. Puis quelque chose d'incroyable s'est produit. J'ai commencé à improviser sur ce morceau. Progressivement, ils ont cessé de parler. J'ai regardé mes propres doigts jouer et j'ai remarqué que ce n'était pas vraiment moi qui les gouvernais. Je me sentais connecté à un étrange champ tout-puissant. Je me souviens que je jouais beaucoup d'arpèges et que mes basses devenaient de plus en plus sonores. Quand finalement je me suis arrêté, le restaurant était totalement silencieux, comme un désert, puis j'ai reçu une véritable ovation. Est-ce que j’aurais égalé voire dépassé Beethoven pendant un bref instant dans ma petite vie sans intérêt ? J'ai parlé de cet incident avec un célèbre pianiste de jazz new-yorkais, et il m'a confirmé l'existence de ce champ de toutes les possibilités, au sujet duquel il a par ailleurs écrit un livre best-seller destiné à tous les musiciens du monde.

[@Bwv1046]

No, she sucks and not even top 30 of all time

[@Bwv1046]

But sir I really respect your opinion and totally respect that she or whatever she is being your favorite 👍🏻

[@hungrymikepencetd5686]

Monteverdi and Bach; the rest are newbs compared to those 2 divine geniuses

[@ukdavepianoman]

I agree Mozart is overrated - for me most of his music doesn't reach the heights of Bach or Beethoven (I suppose in his defence, he did die young but I can't judge what he wasn't able to write). Bach is never overrated. I love Rach and a lot of Tchaikovsky but compared to them I'd say Scriabin and Prokofiev are somewhat underrated.

[@dab505279]

Great show, of course you are full of sh*t. I'm kidding, I'm kidding, take it easy. Seriously, a lot of fun! I subscribed to your channel. Much respect to both of you from Larry in Washington state, U.S.A.

[@AngusDavisonComposer]

Haha cheers Larry! It's a bit of fun of course - just throwing ideas around and everyone will have their own. Thanks for subscribing!

[@philg4116]

Wagner is about right on Mark Twain's list.

[@pianiste1000]

Voici une histoire amusante. J'ai 66 ans, pourtant j'ai découvert Lili Boulanger en profondeur il y a seulement quelques semaines, et je me suis dit : "c'est la plus grande de tous", ce qui est exactement votre conclusion ! Cette conclusion est liée à ce que je perçois comme une sincérité absolue et une véritable dévotion presque enfantine et inconditionnelle à Dieu, peut-être typique de la fin du XIXe siècle, si je la compare à ma propre grand-mère. Mon œuvre préférée, à présent, est son "Psaume 130". Je ne peux m'empêcher d'écouter à longueur de journée ce morceau incroyablement beau et puissant. Mozart est bien sûr inégalé, il évoque le mieux l'amour (K464), qui est le vrai sujet qui compte dans la vie, tandis que Bach est à coup sûr un superbe artisan plein de dévotion pour un Dieu tout-puissant mais parfois féroce. Quoi qu'il en soit, alors que Bach, Mozart et Beethoven sont probablement les 3 plus grands compositeurs qui me viennent à l'esprit, curieusement, je vois une petite Lili Boulanger assise sur un trône les surplombant tous, comme un petit Chérubin.

[@Alix777.]

Vous êtes un grand malade. La propagande féministe fonctionne à plein.

[@ofdrumsandchords]

I'm going to listen to this lady. Mais les classements, très peu pour moi. L'autre jour dans les coms sur la chaîne Piano Jazz Concept, un type a dit que Bach était célèbre à cause de la propagande allemande et que ça avait éclipsé Couperin et Scarlatti, qui lui étaient supérieurs. Pourquoi les gens se mettent-ils dans des thèses aussi débiles ?

[@airpanache]

Mozart is always underrated

[@redwithblackstripes]

I agree that it's a lot easier do under rate Mozart than Bach theses days. In a way the way people over rate Bach today was the way Mozart used to be.

[@francoisritter3971]

Sorry I had to stop when you put Bach in the overated category. Greatest composer in the quality of his quantity. All others in the S+ tier (Chopin, Brahms, Schubert, Beethoven, Mozart, Rachmaninov, Vivaldi, Debussy, Ravel, etc..) have written a significant amount of mediocre work. Bach did almost not (maybe 5-10% max ?). Also, it was tough to hear that Handel can be considered as good as Bach...

[@JL-fh4qw]

18:00 mic drop

[@filip3529]

Bach in his times was called anachronist and was known mosty for his didactic pieces

[@shiroumxm2052]

so Art of Fuge is overrated for you¿¿ for the time it was composed¿

[@twocomposersonechannel]

No! Art of Fugue is fabulous and important

[@ssarmazi]

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to post a video stating Bach and Mozart are overrated and remove all doubt.

[@thomcook8570]

I always feel a bit uncomfortable correcting people but say Alban Berg's name as BairG,

[@ilikeplayingffftonecluster851]

Just going to throw a few names out that I haven’t seen mentioned yet. Alberto Ginastera, mostly known for the Argentinian dances and first piano sonata but not acknowledged for his incredible orchestration. Florent Schmitt Nikolai Medtner Nikolai Roslavets Nikolai Kapustin, although he’s becoming very popular now. •Einojuhani Rautavaara, also becoming quite popular. More I don’t recall right now.

[@kidkrowtaylor]

I know who Kapustin is cause I heard his music on twosetviolin

[@listzsw9598]

Yeah don't even need to watch the whole thing, skipped to the end and saw the list. Handel's music is one of the best in the Baroque Era, as well as Bach's. Their music have brought a great change to the history of Classical Music. And Tchaikovsky on underrated? He risks that he would be hated by other Russian composers, fear for the public to know his sexuality, and have possibly suicide. Piano Concerto, Violin Concerto, 1812 Overture, Symphonies all the music he wrote represents a great change of music in Russia. There is no way for Mahler to be "About right", he have wrote one of the longest symphony in Classical music history, a peak of German Symphonies. For Mozart, no I do not think that he is overrated or underrated at all for me he is in "About right" such a genius he is to just compose a piece on the day of the premiere. Not to mention that Mozart's music or just everyone's music should be judged by "Overplayed". Pieces like Eine kleine Nachtmusik is indeed overplayed, but do overplayed make the music bad? Overplayed piece like Canon in D, Eine kleine Nachtmusik, Four Seasons, all have their greatness in the music, if the piece is overplayed now days, doesn't make the music bad. Ok back to Mozart, 41 Symphonies, String Quartet, Piano Concertos, Violin Concertos. His music is just gentle, light and just a musical genius. There is no way for him to be "Overrated". "Handel's music and Mozart's music makes me uncomfortable." What does that have to do with the music? You own opinion on the music should be not judged on the music itself. Scarlatti's music is very underrated, some can't even tell the difference from his and Bach's, he is also one of the greatest in the Baroque era. To me, no compose from the list should be putted on "overrated". Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Handel, Tchaikovsky, Mahler. Their music have their own greatness, and all of them to me is a great music.

[@jesustovar2549]

I mean, Scarlatti is already known because of his more than 500 harpsichord sonatas, but I think his father Alessandro is way underrated.

[@listzsw9598]

@@jesustovar2549 As a violinist, I do not know him much. What I said is from a prospective of a general musician.

[@janveselak9324]

The greatest composers say Bach is the GOAT

[@jygordon]

The most overrated composer is Rossini, and it's not close.

[@francescoflamini9739]

The most overrated is surely Chopin Rossini is not bad but yeah, a little overrated

[@kidkrowtaylor]

The most overrated is Schubert Sorry not sorry~

[@ankhanhnguyen8766]

imo, Tor Aulin is very underrated, i bet some of you havent even heard of him.

[@JBuddis]

Well, doesn't help that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of his works recorded. His violin concertos are his most popular works and then there's some folk dances and maybe some random bits and bobs thrown into compilation albums, and that's about it. It's easy to be underrated when you barely have a chance to even hear his music!

[@kidkrowtaylor]

Idk who he is

[@ormpi1]

Finally

[@selcano0575]

Overrated Mozart?! The author of Don Giovanni, Le Nozze di Figaro, the six string quartets dedicated to Haydn, the string quintets, the divertimento K 563... For Bach, it's the same. I stopped watching the video. I think both people are unfamiliar with the composers' works. Or know very little about it.

[@fiddeou]

One underrated composer in my opinion is Mel Bonis

[@herr_crustovsky]

No Vivaldi? :(

[@FleuveAlphee]

There are 3 gymnopedies...