Tier Ranking all the Grim Hollow Subclasses: Rogues & Sorcerers

[@ikmart112]

So Ive played a highway rider up to 11th level. Early on we got a necklace that allowed the attuner to cast spider climbing, and I already had a Saddle of The Cavalier. So when I casted the spell, due to find steed rules, I applied the spell to my horse. Then due to the saddle I cannot be dismounted unless I wish to be. So Suddenly I was riding my horse horizontally along buildings in fights, hiding behind buildings on the second floor. Chasing people vertically up structures. Fighting from the 30ft ceiling at range. It's awesome.

[@Ferretic]

Like that cowboy Spider-Man from ATSV!

[@benjamingal3823]

Dovahkiin, dovahkiin...

[@NovelVanguard]

The greatest Spider-Man story never told

[@jag1460]

A true ghost rider.

[@KaioKenneth4]

That’s incredible and I really wanna try this at some point. I wonder if your DM knew the implications when they gave you those magic items? Regardless, excellent stuff from both of you.

[@randyimel8523]

Be a haunted sorcerer and then multi class into undead warlock, and your patron is the spector for your haunted sorcerer

[@TheMightyBattleSquid]

I did the same kind of thing when I built a sorlock tiefling. They were all of those things because their dear old dad made a contract with a demon, who now had dominion over their entire bloodline.

[@Xenozfan2]

Oh, cool idea: your patron is a previous 20th level character.

[@breaz5554]

Such a cool concept, I've had a haunted sorcerer undead warlock charecotr planned for my next campaign since the book came out. It's so cool and synergistic

[@mysteryuser96]

Building on this idea; Your specter is your deceased loved one, who promised to never leave your side and later manages to become your undead warlock patron in order to protect you even from the beyond ❤

[@Xenozfan2]

@@mysteryuser96 That is adorable!

[@chrisg8989]

Definitely going to adopt that "hair trigger" feature and put it on an item or feat for one of my players. Very cool.

[@jeremynadaskay7872]

Make it a rabbit's foot!

[@sambirch5153]

​@jeremynadaskay7872 appreciate the pun my friend

[@Tim_Leclair]

Desperado just reminds me so much of the classic scene where the hero gets shot by the villain and the partner shoots the villain. Villain falls of the edge to their doom and had like a flashdrive or something they all needed. Then the partner goes over to the hero to tend to the wound and the hero is sitting there with the item because they took it as they got shot or something. Just an amazing role playing ability.

[@LycanDreams9159]

Finally. A way to roleplay as a cursed cowboy without having to auto pick warlock and only warlock as a potential subclass. I love the evil eye+ jinx mechanic.

[@KaioKenneth4]

Jonah Hex

[@Trauma284]

Lvl 3 ability renamed. " Han shot first " Halfling on a mastiff

[@Klaital1]

Highway Rider is one of my favorite subclasses from the whole book, it has such cool flavor and mechanics.

[@TheNerdzerker]

I never really considered playing the highway rider before, but thinking about it, I could see myself taking up the mantle of bounty hunter. Once a small time gang member out of desperation, he witnesses his gang commit an unspeakable atrocity, and has devoted his life to seeking redemption, and righting the wrongs. Hunting the members of his gang, hunting other monsters that prey upon the weak & innocent.

[@Ferretic]

10:08 here's how you make Desperado a bit more powerful: If you make an attack with it and that attack reduces an enemy to zero, you gain advantage on death saves.

[@NovelVanguard]

Yes

[@zzfrute]

This is correct

[@TheRealMuckluck]

Honestly, why not have it be that if you reduce them to zero hit points, you automatically stabilise (but don't regain consciousness, as you'd still be at 0 hit points). Or, as I also suggested elsewhere, change the trigger for Desperado to be: "... when you or a member of your party that you can see within 30 feet are reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction ..." etc.

[@TheRealMuckluck]

Or: Have it be that if you reduce your attacker to 0 hit points with the attack, you fall prone and drop to 1 hit points instead of 0, but you can only gain that particular benefit once per day (you can use the rest of Desperado as often as you want, though).

[@fuzzborne]

Make it give disadvantage on death saves and advantage to allies next attack for the roleplay value.

[@jeremydrummer2711]

Once again taking this subclass opportunity to suggest the class and subclasses created for Steinhardt's Guide to the Eldritch Hunt. I believe you guys would enjoy them thoroughly.

[@MadElk32]

Technically the books not even out yet 😢

[@ogrestreetgangtatto5078]

I already have both

[@toyodacanada]

I second this once the book is out

[@TheRealMuckluck]

Sounds very Bloodborne-inspired. Is it?

[@toyodacanada]

@@TheRealMuckluck absolutely

[@insanesuperstar]

The rogue's new mantra: ABS. Always Be Sneakin'.

[@jizburg]

Always Be Stabbing

[@ChaosMind10531]

Always Be Stealing...

[@TheRealMuckluck]

For the Misfortune rogue, you can still be ABC: Always Be Critting.

[@BennenTheBaker]

Benjamin Huffmans Pugilist! Also Humblewood for some added wholesomeness

[@ericgonzales419]

I freaking love the hair trigger feature

[@N0Name_btw]

One note for the highway rider is the squeezing rules. If you really wanted to, you can bring your mount into dungeons and other spaces not suited for large creatures, just at a slower pace.

[@Klaital1]

Next part is going to be great, three out of the four remaining subclasses are huge favorites of mine. First Vampire warlock, and both of the wizard subclasses.

[@DaRatTalks]

I had a late game highway rider for a game and it was probably one of the best burst damage characters there. First attack on initiative was a crit and i fell in love.

[@Southpaw_Blue]

Would love to see you review the SCtD subclasses. I think you’ve shown you can be self-critical where necessary. What I’d love is the ability to send those clips to players so they have a sense of how to make the best odds the subclasses, straight from the mouth of their designers.

[@TheCasualGM]

I love the Haunted Sorcerer, the theme is so cool and having a ghost with you opens up a lot of fun role-play. The only two things I would change is that the Spectre gets to use your Spell Attack bonus for its attack rolls and that it uses a bonus action to attack instead of your action

[@gabebaum6527]

I'll recommend taking a look at Valda's Spire of Secrets by Mage Hand Press. Tons of subclasses, as well as original classes are in that book, and it's overall a worthwhile pickup

[@thomasjenkin26]

I second that. Plenty of stuff that's interesting and fun

[@johnkelley7194]

Agreed

[@Dave_Ehlers]

When you were talking about the Highway Rider, all I could think about is this subclass armed with a rapier and a whip, and you have Zorro from the old black and white TV show. Maybe mix in a little Battlemaster or Swords Bard for good measure.

[@rekc_bcq4816]

I heard about gun proficient Rogue and immediately thought “Can Colby make another Gunk build with this?” 😂

[@capslockpenguin7518]

I played the Highway Rider Rogue in a campaign. I ended up with 4 levels of the Celestial transformation too. The character felt very dominant, often ending encounters the moment they started. I absolutely adore that subclass. The mount is incredibly useful in combination with Tasha's ability to give yourself advantage in exchange for your movement. I had a completely different flavor too. I played a cowardly thief who died when he did the right thing for the first time in his life. For his sacrifice he was given training on mt Celestia and when the party revived him, he returned with determination, the Highway Rider Subclass and the Celestial Transformation.

[@Stopdressur]

YES! I always look forward to these! By the way, are we getting a continiation to the apothecary series about the Chemist? My next character is probably gonna be that subclass.

[@Cristian-ih8qz]

I love the fact that you are reviewing 3rd party quality content. I'd love to see some Eberron content reviewed as well. Exploring Eberron and Chronicles of Eberron has some great class to look into. I'd love to see how you would rate them

[@SouvenirSpices]

I didnt know you guys worked on this book, the highway rider is one of my fav subclasses from the book, good job guys!

[@blushworthyspeaks]

"Are the authors in the room with us today?"

[@Atown0921]

I would love for you guys to do Valda's Spire of Secrets from Mage Hand Press next!

[@Atown0921]

I know it's a lot, but it would be awesome!

[@theparagoncompany]

The Rogue in my party uses the Misfortune Bringer subclass and we've been waiting to see this.

[@TheDemosthones]

The book says 3 jinx points? Where is it that they are pulling these screenshots or snipits?

[@HorizonOfHope]

The art for Haunted Sorcerer looks phenomenal.

[@LupineShadowOmega]

In the words of Spike Spiegel, "Bang." Desperado is just a very fun and gritty ability idea.

[@Narifamen]

I know it's a lot - like a lot a lot - but I'd love to see a couple videos on Valda's. Primarily because I adore the Witch Class it presents.

[@AxelCCMD]

Shennanigannery is my new favorite word.

[@Benjamin-k7c9l]

I've loved your videos on the grim hollow subclasses great job you guys creating some incredible content really makes me want to buy the book

[@thundyrcat]

Just received my copy of it! I purchased it after your first Teir Ranking from this book. So excited to use them.

[@AndyReichert0]

Please review/rank the subclasses in the Humblewood, Nightfell, and Plangegea third party setting books

[@mutantmoth]

I ran a Misfortune Bringer with the fey transformation, and the Charisma boost was a big help with sticking the Evil Eye. I do agree that the save against led to spamming it until it worked, but it was worth it. Curse of the Doomed and Maimed work really well. It was a really fun subclass to play. Getting Jinx back on a short rest comes in clutch too.

[@GeraldKatz]

Played in a game where another player was a Misfortune Bringer. He chose the jinx of tripping the Evil Eye target to stop movement. Proved effective in saving PCs from attacks when a bad guy wanted to move.

[@immortalmonk2891]

Had a player play the highway rider, absolutely amazing class. They blew me away with how dynamic they could be in play. Very fun, and they had fun running interference running down enemies trying to escape or get help.

[@mosqapuccino]

Hahaha, love when you evocated the halfling on a pig. I play a beastmaster halfling who rides his pig in battle. He started with a trident fashioned as a pitchfork and is called Dani the Farmboy and Pig the Pig. He has one level of Peace Domain cleric, so the duo of Dani and Pig is a powerful force for the team…

[@mosqapuccino]

also… the name "little death"… for a French person it's very funny, because it is an idiom used for a climax…

[@michaelsackett4410]

With the wretched soul sorcerer, don't forget that the bad luck charm doesn't have to always applied to YOUR spells. You can use direct damage, but still give them disadvantage against your fighter's disarm, or your cleric's banishment. SYNERGY!!!

[@destroyerinazuma96]

I have an idea for your highway Rogue. If one takes 5 levels in Fighter, one can dump 4/6 of a revolver within one turn. And the build works thematically, too.

[@destroyerinazuma96]

Fun fact: one of the first Sorcerers with a legit extra spells known table was UA Favored Soul. To this day one of my favourites.

[@TheRealMuckluck]

10:01 With regards to slightly buffing *Desperado*, my suggestion is to change the trigger to the following: "... when you _or a member of your party that you can see within 30 feet_ are reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction to ...", and so on. Alternatively, have it be that if you use Desperado to attack your killer/the creature who reduced you to 0 hit points, you: 1. Immediately draw and reload a one-handed ranged weapon, if you aren't holding a loaded one already. 2. If your counter attack reduces your attacker to 0 hit points, you fall prone (as if you had been reduced to 0 hit points), but you are instead reduced to 1 hit point. Risk/reward.

[@Southpaw_Blue]

DD video - instant watch!

[@tylergee1405]

I'm excited for the wizard subclass tier list. Played Grim Hollow and found a busted combo with Sangromancer/Echo knight. In one turn I can do 21d12 necrotic to current and max hp.

[@CodyPease]

Can't wait to see the warlocks.😊

[@arc4382]

I really liked the Highway Rider rogue. Almost picked it going into a Drakkenheim campaign.

[@eclectic9210]

I love the desperado feature!

[@palatonian9618]

I wanted to say on the curse of the ruined ability, I think while it is much less powerful than abilities you can use after seeing the roll, it is easy to use it in ways that arent wasteful. When the spell caster casts hold monster or hypnotic pattern or any important spell, you use curse of the ruined to debuff their save like heightened spell. It's not a waste because you are debuffing. And if i am understanding it right, it stacks with disadvantage making it synergistic with heightened spell. Also I want to go on the record that I think silvery barbs is cheap and lame and this is way more interesting and fun

[@HiddenAdept]

Whoa, if I'm following, Wretched Bloodline can debuff the enemy saving throw WITHOUT CONCENTRATION to get a enemy inflicted with a condition and then cast the spell to inflict the condition with concentration in the same turn, then every turn thereafter debuff the enemy's ability check to attempt to escape the condition, again without concentration. That's the level 1 ability for 1 sorcery point. That's insane.

[@83ericp]

Valda's Spire of Secrets has some great subclasses! I'd love to see a review

[@NXPhoenix3]

The latent 3.5 player in me is drunk on the thought of the Wretched bloodline's Bad Luck Charm. Save-or-suck! Save-or-suck! Save-or-suck! I'd argue it also has uses beyond your own save-or-suck spells--the effect is on the target's next roll, which doesn't necessarily need to be on your turn. You could Bad Luck Charm a target to set up another party member who goes after you and has a clutch save-based ability ready to go. The 5th+ level Monk will love you for setting up their Stunning Strike. The Battle Master fighter will appreciate the shenanigans you can let them reliably do. Paladin smite spells (e.g. Wrathful Smite, Blinding Smite) just got more wicked. If someone absolutely, positively needs to grapple an enemy you're their friend. Think of all the subclasses, features, and feats that would be great if the targets could more reliably fail their saves. Your wretched self is their patron saint and you still have whatever shenanigans you can do with your regular action. I am now tempted to make a support Wretched Sorcerer...

[@CBCB8282]

The highway rider is my favorite subclass in the book. I love it next time I play a rogue I'm going to ask to play it. My wife is currently a ranger 5 rogue 1 in our curse of Strad game, I'm going to see if she wants to go 2 levels in rogue next for highway rider.

[@Doombot221]

The wretched bloodline getting darkvision that works on magical darkness at lvl1 as an option is wildly powerful and I think that is being slept on a bit here. And l since you're a sorcerer you can just dump wisdom and not have to worry about being the scout for the party. Plus, because the flavor text frames it as a daylight kind of issue, I can see ways that a permissive DM could even allow certain loopholes for the disadvantage. For example, would it matter that it's technically daytime if the party is in an underground cave dungeon? Another thought is that the hex on ability checks and saving throws could also be used outside of combat situations such as interactions. I have this idea in my head that you could potentially cast darkness you can see thru, and then guide your party through the darkness while giving an enemy/monster disadvantage on perception to find them. It seems like there are fun opportunities to play cat and mouse with the archetype and agree it should be a strong A-tier

[@parkermiller1631]

My big thing is that, as with the Misfortune Bringer’s Jynx points (and BM superiority / Bard’s Bardic Inspo), there are sometimes arbitrary amounts of limited uses for abilities. And I think (and I know this is third party BUT) with dnd trying to be streamlined and easy to digest. Most resources like that should depend on PB. It would make resource management make so much more sense and would reflect the characters growing stronger more accurately.

[@chrisunruh8292]

Been thinking of a arcane gun slinger inspired by the cowboy wizard from Dresden files. I am now thinking artillery artificer multiclassed into highway rouge because of this video😊

[@DrgnDrake]

Felt worth noting that the Nocturnal Wretched Curse also lets you see through magical darkness. Rare and very useful.

[@guamae]

Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul really *broke* Sorcerer subclasses... At my table, we give all subclasses expanded spell lists, and take away retraining.... I Really Hope this is all fixed in 6e...

[@azurewolf606]

Love the work guys 😂

[@danielberg5049]

Love this channel. Keep it up, guys!

[@raen19]

I love that Haunted Sorcerer and must play one immediately!

[@collinmendon4642]

I would love to see you guys rate the classes and subclasses in Valda's Spire of Secrets. Lots of content to explore and your opinions and ratings are great. Just an idea for more 3rd party content.

[@Dnicole32]

You guys had this as a focus for potentially mounted combat. Did you ever consider or is there a reason you didn’t pump up that mount for like the level 17 feat. Like giving them find greater steed as an additional feature at those later levels?

[@TheRealMuckluck]

Me, reading Bad Luck Charm: "You get a Disintegrate! And you get a Disintegrate! Everybody gets a Disintegrate!" Requires high level, yes, but whew ... and since you already debuffed them with Bad Luck Charm as a separate bonus action, if you're in a fight involving a hostile spellcaster, you can use your metamagic slot for the Disintegrate spell to make it subtle ... meaning you can cast it even if you're silenced or unable to move your arms, AND it can't even be counterspelled! In other words, Wretched bloodline sorcerers are the best ever at hitting enemies with Disintegrate without anything interfering.

[@jameshewitt4706]

The Curse of the Maimed and Doomed combo just gives me SUCH "Tsubame Gaeshi" vibes! lol

[@serioussjam]

I never bought 3th party book because TTRPGs book are expensive and it can be hard to find a book with something you know you gonna like but your videos convince me to buy the grim hollow books

[@TomNelsonBlueRider]

I think I'd personally love trying out the Misfortune Bringer. I think I could build a nice backstory around that. If you're looking for suggestions on other things to review, I'd like to recommend City of Crescent by Metis Creative and their Historica Arcanum game world. I'm going to be running that for my players as soon as they finish their current campaign. The setting for CoC is an alternate history Constantinople in the mid 19th century where magic and non-human races exist. The subclasses are well thought out and thematic and the book contains a lot of material to help build out the game world. (They also have two other books in the series (Empires of the Silk Road: 13th century Silk Road, and Era of the Crusades set in the 12th century.)

[@shinemoon4673]

There should be a warlock subclass that "back loads" its expanded spell list. Choice spells added in the last 2 to 4 spell levels.

[@theq86]

I play the Plague Doctor Wizard subclass, tons of fun; can't wait to see your review. Are you guys going to be going over the Grim Hallow races and transformations?

[@captainthorrek262]

Out of these characters, I would grab Haunted Sorcerer in an instant. Flavor him to be a kind of kid version of John Wick, and have the Specter be his dog!

[@freedomphantom5]

My issue with the haunted ones spell list is unseen servant. Anything that spell can do the specter can do

[@TheHornedKing]

The Haunted sorcerer sounds amazing!

[@zeestar0112]

wretched bloodline sorcerer with levels in hexblade or celestial warlock is flavorful. Yes, they are twins teehee

[@jonathanstern5537]

Recomendation for 3rd party content: Tome of Heroes by Kobold Press. It's huge, you can do new races, subclasses, backgrounds, tools, etc.

[@solar4planeta923]

Personally, since Tasha's I feel that all sorts of glasses should have an expanded spell list, and it would be best if they were all even. I would limit that to 5 across the board, since unlike wizards they have metamagic. Then the presence or absence of an expanded spell list would not get in the way of other subclass comparisons

[@epigreviews5405]

Im not seeing anyone else mention this but the misfortune rouge combo that gets talked about at 18:16 doesn’t work because both curses require you to use a reaction. I’m sorry to have to be the one to point this out. I don’t mean to be a buzzkill/rules lawyer but I felt the rules clarification was important because No one else spotted it in the comments. If your reading this than I hope your having a good day.

[@boogliejooglie3700]

Haunted Sorcerer: Negativeman from the Doom Patrol

[@jimnop2000]

Started playing a misfortune rogue in a grimdarkish campaign, but she got killed off at 2nd level, so i never got to try out the curses 😢 Love the flavor. Enjoyed the GH content on curses and transformations -- starts to fill in some holes in D&D.

[@Lrbearclaw]

11 or so levels Highway Rider + Ranger would literally be Link.

[@Smeelio]

Could you use Little Death for healing? I might be misreading, but it looks like no matter what you come back to life with half your maximum hitpoints, so if you used the spell at 1hp you'd be getting a pretty significant "heal" when the spell ends (and really it's worthwhile if you are any significant amount below half HP when you cast it, provided you don't mind losing the slot and/or have something useful to do as a ghost as well)

[@RLKmedic0315]

Will any of these sub classes be available on Beyond? If so, any idea when?

[@FrankiePeanuts]

Be a Harengon Highway Rider. Have Hare-Trigger and Hair-Trigger. So what I'm getting from the Wretched Sorcerer is you take a dip to get Bad Luck Charm and sorcery points, then mainline Bard or Warlock. Because those level 14 and 18 features seem underwhelming. An AoE fear that has friendly fire and no way to exclude your party members other than range, with sub features that are easily obtained far earlier. And a summon that you have to micromanage so it doesn't turn on your allies. No thanks.

[@aglom69]

Han didn't shoot 1st. He fired the only shot.

[@somerandomginger9938]

Question since you guys wrote it. Healer Feat, and Healers Kit with Hair Trigger? Does that work?

[@lukeseigfried7687]

Would love to see Humblewood reviews

[@thetowndrunk988]

An argument can be made that highway rider is S tier. Those are very thematic, and quite potent, features. Just to add- imagine Veo with this rogue subclass, as much as she moves around (plus the fact she already starts an encounter with an extra attack, and usually wins initiative)…….

[@Ih8appls]

I would love to see you review more third party content, preferably subclasses.

[@gerbenwierda9683]

great video - have you considered going through KibblesTasty classes / subclasses?

[@okayhellohihowyadoin]

I think you’re being humble rating your own Rogue an A Their level 3 ability is stupidly good. It’s a baby version of the Thief Rogue’s level 17 ability. Two sneak attacks round 1 is combat defining in the best kind of way.

[@RFSCaveman]

Would be cool to see you guys cover the subclasses in Dante's Guide to the Inferno by Acheron Games

[@skullkrusher-dx4kg]

Haunted sorc with elemental adept necrotic seems really strong.

[@ImmortalDart]

9:40 thats what you talking about is literally John Wick in his 4😅

[@antoinewilliams1358]

New subclasses are always much appreciated... Here's my problem.. after watching all of these, the combat oriented classes, the fighter the monk, half the barbarian and rogue are off themed. I'm always looking for ideas on designing a Bloodborne themed campaign.. maybe next time

[@andremoreira2785]

Please make an Echo Knight video

[@nicolasv6031]

Would it be too broken to add this to the 17th level feature of the Highway Rider Rogue? When a creature you can see within 60 feet of you attacks you, you can use your reaction to take one of the actions listed in your Hair Trigger feature. The chosen action takes place after the triggering attack. You can use this a number of times equal to your Dexterity modifier, regaining spent uses on a long rest. I feel like this would be good to add in addition to the 0 hit points part, as the current version doesn't take place that often, making it feel like a no-feature until the rare moment you're brought to 0 hp, as at that level, you can easily have over 100 hp

[@jasonlehman4591]

I would love to see your take on MrRhexx MonsterClasses.

[@kylegardner5346]

I realize it is completely biased, but I would love for y’all to review your own sub classes from Sebastian Crow’s guide to Drakkenheim

[@parko246]

Can you attempt a non partisan review of your modules on roll 20 and foundry?

[@TheDemosthones]

My book shows that the misfortune bringer rogue starts with 3 jinx points? Where are you gettinf your clips or the sources you are showing?

[@foolwise4703]

At my table, all sorcerers just get a flavor-adjusted expanded spell list. Not retrainable though.