How deep does English football’s pyramid go?

[@MrPicklerwoof]

It's not so much the system in England, but the sheer amount of support many of these tiny clubs get that is the amazing part.

[@Moochel]

Absolutely. Even the national league now is more like a league 3 than a true non league division, with professional clubs and sizeable fan bases

[@mitchdwx]

I was visiting London last month and I went to an FA Cup game between AFC Wimbledon (4th tier) and Ramsgate (8th tier). Even for a team in the 8th tier Ramsgate brought over 1000 fans and they sang and chanted until the final whistle, even though they lost 5-0. I was completely blown away that a team no one has heard of had such passionate support. The closest USA equivalent is probably college football, where even the bad D3 teams can have a decent sized following, but even that pales in comparison to the football pyramid in England

[@chopsquotes9326]

@@mitchdwxyes it’s because football is a passionate sport and all of these teams represent a town in England so the people who live in these towns basically associate the local team with their identity

[@jimb9063]

@@mitchdwx It is worth bearing in mind that the support isn't like that in usual league away games, it was a big game. Smaller teams like my tier three side often take more fans to a big FA cup away game than we get for normal league home games. While chances of European football and Premier league glory are virtually impossible for lower league teams, there's far more intimacy and community feel the smaller the club gets. We've held wake style celebrations for family members in the facilities at our ground, and the manager and some players and staff have popped in to chat with the family. Something that could never happen for average fans of big clubs, even if the club wanted to do it. I guess it's a combination of the history and legacy of medieval football and the size of the country which allows for the tradition of away support to flourish. I'd agree that the equivalence is probably college football from what I've heard, especially the passion and local (ish!) rivalry.

[@realtalk6195]

And this doesn't even factor Scotland, Northern Ireland and most of Wales, which have their own pyramids.

[@Pointland33]

The National League South attendance record was broken just this Tuesday on 24th October 2023 with 6,289 watching Yeovil Town v Weymouth.

[@mankytoes]

Interesting! When I saw the relegations last year, I was thinking Torquay v Yeovil must be up there for the biggest game ever at that level.

[@YungTooz]

Crazy how they had more fans than Al ettifaq this week

[@FunnyDudehehe]

They still has more fans than all of oil money club in saudi pro league 😅😅

[@jamesthorner2555]

I was there

[@insertnamehere5809]

Over 5k more than what they get in the top league of Saudi Arabia 🇸🇦

[@jack_hodges]

How did Dorking not get a mention here? 12 promotions in 23 years

[@EdPaice]

Yes, a glaring omission unfortunately

[@ThreeRunHomer]

Dorking is also a wonderfully amusing name.

[@robmontier3770]

@@ThreeRunHomer "" Allo Darlin' - fancy a Dorkin'?" !

[@bosserman444]

Is that the dorking wanderers?

[@diegobert4033]

@@bosserman444yes, I think they just got relegated sadly, bumped from the National League

[@ThisIsAdo]

No way! My last appearance in England was a one-off in the Yorkshire Amateur League Division Five, i.e. Level 18. My next appearance was then a one-off at Level 1 in San Marino. That is the only level in San Marino, but regardless I stake my claim to fame as a European top flight footballer (and the first ever Brit to play there!)

[@JK_360_]

How do you think level 1 San Marino compares to level 18 in England? Always wanted to know where leagues like that of San Marino would be placed in England ability wise.

[@lordgemini2376]

Nice!

[@ThisIsAdo]

That's a difficult question to answer - even comparing the Sammarinese 'pyramid' to its elite Italian neighbour is tricky enough, so I'll start there. I gathered that the very best players in that league could maybe fight for a place in a Serie D (Italy Level 4) side, where professionalism starts to take hold, whereas the worst may well move across the border to teams in Prima Categoria (Level 7) or even lower. Note that Level 3 in Italy is already very much regional, whereas in England you have to go down to Level 6 before a division has regions and even then, there are only two big ones - the north and south of the Conference. Interestingly enough, the team I played for in San Marino will be hosting an English side from Level 8 in a friendly next year. This will be the first ever encounter between an English and a Sammarinese side, so it will be very exciting to see how that goes! For the record, British teams have already played clubs from San Marino, in European competition preliminaries - Bala Town FC of the Welsh pyramid famously lost 3-1 over two legs to Sammarinese titans Tre Fiori in 2018...@@JK_360_

[@colorfulmarbles156]

YIPPE

[@gabriellockett6302]

What club do you play for in San Marino?

[@Jrodsly]

As an American, I've had way more fascination with the English pyramid and non-league than I ever have the Prem or the MLS. Even with Charlotte finally getting an MLS club, I just don't find the same joy in the league that I get from following non-league clubs and supporting them monetarily. It made me happy that so many clubs across the country wanted to help me support them easier with purchases, even despite the shipping nightmares that come from it.

[@SomethingSomewhereJustOnce]

You lost me at, As an American.

[@HungNguyen-qr7bt]

@@SomethingSomewhereJustOnce right? Lol

[@-zSoloSz-]

its the randomness of the english pyramid that gives it its alure imo. any team can literally climb for the bottom league to the top and teams do! Bournemouth being an excellent example

[@TheAmasonic]

One of the downsides of having an overly commercial league like the MLS is that it serves to protect franchise owners, and they shell out so much money to own franchises which means they can't allow relegation. Another reason to say thank God football didn't start out from the US.😊

[@fyreexe4121]

@@SomethingSomewhereJustOnce oh no 😱an american likes football

[@Psspresident]

As a Macclesfield fan I have seen first hand the lower echelons of the football pyramid that I never thought I would see. Some great teams down there doing great things in the community.

[@mikedobinson1388]

agreed, my local 7th tier team has much more of a community feel than my local prem team.

[@rickfarny]

As a Bury fan, couldn't agree more!

[@johannesreil5069]

As a member of a German amateur team I can say that our "pyramide" is quite similar and also very good structured. It differs at some degree from state to state but to give you an example of Germany + Bavaria: 1) Bundesliga 2) 2. Bundesliga 3) 3. Liga 4) Regionalliga (5 Leagues) Now it gets state specific 5) Bayernliga (2 Leagues) 6) Landesliga (5 Leagues) 7) Bezirksliga (Various Leagues) 8) Kreisliga (Various Leagues) 9) Kreisklasse (Various Leagues) 10) A-Klasse (Various Leagues) 11) B-Klasse (Various Leagues) 12) C-Klasse (Various Leagues) All work with promotion/relegation, so in theory a team from lowest league C-Klasse needs 11 years to get to Bundesliga 😂 Our lowest Leagues build in many communities one of the pillars of civil society, almost every village has it's own football club with more or less large fanbase, tradition and rivalry. Also the media attention is quite good, especially in the local newspapers and also online via platforms and even matchday vidéos !!! Without amateur football professional football would not be possible. In our commercialized football world we should never forget that 💚

[@myopiniondoesntmatter7068]

you sure the "bayernliga" isnt division one?

[@alixundr9519]

@@myopiniondoesntmatter7068 No because there is the Regionalliga Bayern, which of course is not confusing at all (e__e)

[@Rantasalmi47]

ever since i learned about german 3rd tier ive wondered why is it called 2. liga and not 3. Bundesliga?

[@ChuChuTVOfficial-111]

@@Rantasalmi47it’s not part of the Bundesliga the Bundesliga operates Bundesliga and 2 Bundesliga

[@Ietmeth1nk]

@@alixundr9519pretty sure he joked bout Bayernmunich dominating Bundesliga

[@uncreative5766]

As an American, I'd love to get a video on how AFC Wimbledon moved up to the Football League so quickly. I know the story of Milton-Keynes and how everyone hated the relocation, but I'd love to learn in-depth how the phoenix club made their way up the pyramid so quickly. Like, who were the key fans behind reviving the club? Who were the first coaches and players that helped elevate them? I'd love to learn more.

[@mikedobinson1388]

Like everything else, it's money. Players in the lower leagues still need jobs to support themselves, so if you have owners that are committed to moving up, it isn't difficult to pay players the wages of a couple leagues above. It is effectively what Wrexham did last year - they were paying league 1 players league 1 (and sometimes championship) wages to gaurantee a quality that the other teams couldn't compete with.

[@vhs-stan7942]

@@mikedobinson1388not quite, Wimbledon are a fan-owned club, so our financial resources are actually quite strained at our current level. We had a leg up in the lower divisions due to a relatively larger fan base, but this is hardly comparable to Wrexham. There's no owner with deep pockets behind it.

[@mastertrams]

AFC Wimbledon hating MK Dons isn't the only interesting storyline either. AFC Wimbledon have screwed over another team in their short history, that being Kingstonian FC. When the phoenix club were first founded, they shared a ground with Kingstonian. At some point, they purchased the ground from Kingstonian. When they moved into Plough Lane, they sold the ground to Chelsea, who now use it for their academy and women's sides, leaving Kingstonian homeless...

[@tim..indeed]

​@@vhs-stan7942 Still, you have a big financial advantage due to your big fanbase spending money on tickets, merch, etc. At least compared to the other low-tier teams. But that's how it's supposed to be after all, big clubs should go up.

[@martenkats6915]

@@mastertrams We never purchased the ground from Kingstonian, they didn't own it when we arrived, but lost ownership a few years before. We definitely didn't screw them over, if anything, we helped them a lot. They got a lot of money from the sale to Chelsea, far more than they were strictly entitled to.

[@AgecaseV]

I was at the Europa league match between Brighton and Ajax last night, going to the Southern Combination prem league match between Newhaven and Hassocks tomorrow, then the Non-league Fenix European cup match between Lewes and FC Oslo next week. Its a wonderful part of English culture that I'm proud of

[@Powelly6]

No way they have a international league in non league football💀💀

[@divochicken2244]

@@Powelly6 I mean even UEFA has a tournament for Amateur clubs, so why not?

[@The_Italian_Job]

The Italian football pyramid is somewhat simpler. Similar regional variations apply, but it's largely divided as follows: Serie A (20 clubs, single division) Serie B (24 clubs, single division) Serie C (60 clubs, three equal divisions divided across North, Centre and South) Serie D (162 semi-pro clubs, divided across 9 regional divisions) Eccellenza Promozione Prima categoria Seconda categoria Terza categoria (all these are part of the Italian Football League even if it's players are amateurs). Entirely separately from the above, you've got amateur competitions which don't connect to the football league pyramid, unless a team were to register to the Terza Categoria and start from there. It goes without saying that Terza Categoria has no relegation and in some regions it doesn't even exist. In the past, there used to be more divisions.

[@adrianpilcher703]

Forza Martina. Back up to Serie D. So many Italian teams fail and climb back to a level where they fail again.

[@realtalk6195]

I'm guessing Italy's aging population is partly why those additional tiers are now gone. Not enough players.

[@juandiegoprado]

I've played in the 5th and 4th amateur divisions of the Swiss football pyramid, which has roughly the same system as the English one. But it's crazy to see just how deep the English one actually goes. I find it great that systems like these allow for a lot more people of vastly different levels to participate in meaningful, competitive football.

[@trickygoose2]

England does have a much bigger population than Switzerland. The top 4 levels here are full time professional as are quite a few teams at the 5th level (the National League). Below that, for several levels, players will tend to be semi-professionals who get paid for playing, but not enough to live on without another job.

[@DannyKeogh94]

You’ve got to factor in population though. England is however many times larger than Switzerland so it’s expected that the pyramid will go deeper here. But yes, it’s very well structured in all honesty, and the club I play for at amateur level (Level 11), is just as important to the integrity of the sport than the clubs at the very top.

[@Powelly6]

@@trickygoose2it’s even better than that now days, all teams apart from 3 or 4 in national league are pro, making it basically a professional league, with more and more teams having the sustainability to go pro in the north/south. There are people getting paid even further down as well whether it’s 50 quid a match or 300

[@rodolfomartinezontiveros886]

As a Mexican, one can just dream with this, here there’s not even relegation/promotion anymore, small teams like my hometown team (which I grew fallen in love with crying and suffering promotions and relegations) does not play for anything, it’s just pointless because we can never aspire for the title but we don’t have the punishment of see us again play on the 2nd tier so…what’s the point?

[@kapsel-yg2sk]

I don't get it, what's the thing with NA federations of any sports discarding the promotion-relegation system completely. I know the knockout play-offs add some variety, but it seems... stagnated. Also, until now I thought Liga MX would mimic LaLiga or Brasileirão Série A in this matter

[@maccy4829]

@@kapsel-yg2skit’s about money

[@thibautnarme6402]

@@maccy4829 and more precisely it's about "insuring" income for the incumbents and valuation for the club owners

[@Nahanoo]

I promise you a team from Step 6 in the national league will never play a game in the Prem either. It’s an illusion that anybody can fall or rise but it’s a lie. With how many works in football today. United will never go to the championship even if they never win a Prem ever again and vice versa for any team in the national leagues

[@edwardcardona717]

@@kapsel-yg2skLiga MX used to, but they suspended promotion and relegation some time ago. It has never come back

[@Parking-dj4zj]

As a Portuguese I can say that our football pyramid is not so deep. We have for national championships: Liga Portugal (18 teams) Liga Portugal 2 (18 teams) Liga 3 (20 teams, north & south) Campeonato de Portugal (56 teams in 4 groups) There are the regionals football associations (22) being the bigger one and the deeper possible AF Porto with 4 divisions: Divisão de Elite Divisão de Honra 1ª Divisão 2ª Divisão

[@CARTMANBRAWH]

Its like mariana trench, The deeper it is, the stranger its gonna look, full of creatures unknown to us

[@bannnnner]

Was watching highlights between Hereford vs Brighton from 1997. The loser would be demoted to National League, the winner... well they just beat Ajax and are considered one of the most exciting clubs in the PL😮

[@CeemPlay]

Money helped

[@NR-fd9wv]

@@CeemPlay being smart with their money helped

[@CeemPlay]

@@NR-fd9wv There is alot to be said about simply not having idiots in charge. I reckon many supporters could have done better jobs than alot of clubs boards. I.e not sacking managers, bringing in the right players etc.

[@stephenpalmer9375]

well it was a long journey for Brighton, spending years homeless, playing home games 100s of miles away, or at an athletics stadium. And they had fallen from being a top division team, losing an FA Cup final in the 1980s.

[@trickygoose2]

That Hereford club later went bust. The Hereford that plays now is a 'new' club.

[@MangaSamte]

I was secretly hoping that TIFO would show Hashtag's growth. Glad, I wasn't disappointed. Following them has shown me the deep structure of English football pyramid and has even more so made me in love with this beautiful game.

[@Jayfive276]

Stupid name for a team though.

[@MangaSamte]

@@Jayfive276 true, hahaha!! I believe Spencer's (the owner) reasoning was because of the club's formation and connection to the internet but yeah still a silly name. I have pretty much gotten over it and just enjoy watching the club grow from nothing. I'd give him and his team mad props for how they've build up this club too. They basically build up a following/fan base which you desperately need to secure any monetary support from the industry you want to grow in for any entertainment project; be it comics, movies or in this case a football club. Since they already have a solid fan base, companies/promoters have half of their work already do e for them and they (the club owners) already have one foot into the threshold of these sponsors because of that.

[@davidprescott5690]

Slight correction; Gloucester City are not the longest serving member of the National League North, they were moved across from the National League South in 2019/2020. They are the longest serving team at step 2 though.

[@torspedia]

It certainly does go deep. Somerset County League (step 11), for example, has 4 divisions to step 14... then there are several more localised leagues below that, like the Bath and North Somerset District league. I do remember watching games at Griffin Park, while Brentford played in Division 4, now League Two. 🙂

[@stivvits1067]

This is grassroots football and this how nations should develop the game, not just overpaying washed up stars to come play in their country

[@T_PTSD]

Seems someone doesn't like Saudi league

[@edmann1820]

@@T_PTSD To be fair he could have meant America or China or Germany.

[@dr.disappointment8400]

@@T_PTSDi mean, why would you?

[@DaughterOfChelsea]

​@edmann1820 how could it be the German league?

[@edmann1820]

@@DaughterOfChelsea Harry Kane

[@tomhammond3495]

I was hoping you would use Dorking Wanderers as the best example of a team climbing the pyramid. Their rise from the Crawley and District League Division Five up to the national league is remarkable.

[@richard6440]

The £3 million he spent is remarkable.

[@CHANNELS647]

Legend has it that archeologists are still digging, looking for the MLS.

[@damatter3314]

Underrated comment

[@Mito_chon_dria]

Saudi pro league too 😅

[@pansk5942]

As a Greek and a football fan we are incompetent of organising the second football division. No structure, no programming, no organisation, no management, no money, mafia, illegal gambling, just to name some problems in the lower semi-professional divisions.

[@waynefawcett9283]

The National South record attendance is now Yeovil vs Weymouth - 6,289

[@MrArchimedes]

Route One Rovers being promoted to the North West Counties Football League is actually a good example of teams having to go where there's space, rather than following the pre-determined route up the pyramid. As a Yorkshire team they'd usually be expected to go to the Northern Counties East Football League instead. Thankfully they're not far from the Lancs border so it's not a very long journey - nothing compared to the FC Isle of Man away day anyway.

[@jimsmith9578]

Wrong wrong as yorkshire is so big is feeds the northern nwcfl and ncel league above at step 6

[@jamesnewton-yates8811]

My town is about to win their league for the 3rd time in a row but they cannot be promoted because they do not have the proper facilities. If they were to be promoted they would also start getting paid to play

[@Thomao]

That's a LOT of the population playing the sport. It's a shame there is no legit pyramid (with club movement up or down) in the States.

[@5kilogramsofricin]

Apparently the USL had a vote on adding pro/rel to its leagues, not sure what happened to it

[@MrCardiffian]

If the US adopted a grassroots pyramid like the UK it would be become a greater force at International level. Unfortunately business monopoly constrains the games development at grassroots.

[@midamida915]

Thats cos the states presumably has its own sports (gridiron, baseball, hockey, basketball) that it's youth aspire to play in, they invest more heavily in those. I think their college football while not the highest level is still taken hugely seriously?

[@HungNguyen-qr7bt]

@@MrCardiffianthe US is already a greater force than how it was 10 years ago, and I don’t see how it will stop there. Different approaches work for different countries. Grassroots soccer I can see could work with the farm system in baseball. Right now we don’t have such a system like that yet.

[@HungNguyen-qr7bt]

@@midamida915if u play soccer in college u can enter the SuperDraft for a chance to play in the MLS, so yes its taken very seriously. The MLS also plan to expand the pool of eligibility to include even college freshmen next yr

[@somethinglikethat2176]

It and similar systems are magnificent. Utterly ruthless, yet completely fair.

[@hazeemiskandar]

I've started journey in FM19 from the lowest step in the pyramid until reaching the football league back in the day with Bilston FC... God knows how much debt i've racked up oved the years to compete with other team wage commitment 😂

[@pacyguy7144]

I love watching videos about the non league ladder, so entertaining to see how many different leagues there are

[@r.a.6459]

The Championship was used to be called Division I back in 2000. I remember Man City being relegated from PL to Division I, in which the next year promoted from Division I back to PL. League 1 used to be called Division II, and League 2 Division III.

[@knightofwind2929]

this is crazy, how are they not finding maradonas and peles in those lower divisions. I had no idea the league went soooo deep

[@m.ppanca5057]

its crazy how many players out there playing in UK, maybe some do it as part time job but still pretty amazing

[@eifelkreutz]

Would be interesting to see a breakdown of how many fully professional teams and how many semi-professional teams there are, and what tiers they fall in. Also the average stadium size and attendance of each tier

[@ALEX15here]

Well the 92 of the Football League are all professional. 21 of the 24 clubs in the National League are also professional (23/34). I believe at least 3 are fully pro in the National League South, and would guess there are probably 4-6 in the North league. Below this, I doubt there's any fully pro-teams, but there will definitely be some players who are making a living full time playing football. So probably right around 120 fully pro teams in England.

[@diabolik8684]

In Italy it is quite similar. It goes: Professional leagues: Serie A Serie B Serie C (3 leagues) Semi-professional leagues: Serie D (9 leagues) Amateur leagues: Eccellenza (28 leagues) Promozione (53 leagues) Prima Categoria (105 leagues) Seconda Categoria (182 leagues) Terza Categoria (232 leagues)

[@BryanCooperOfficial]

My hometown's Liversedge. What a lovely shock that was to hear you mention it!

[@asmallyoutube]

In Moldova we have 3 divisions: Super Liga (level 1, professional league consisting of 8 clubs) Liga 1 (level 2, semi-professional league consisting of 2 groups of 6 clubs) Liga 2 (level 3, amateur league consisting of 24 clubs split between 2 groups of north and south) Note that all of these clubs (except B teams) participate in the Cupa Moldovei.

[@mathewjones9928]

There's the 11 official parts of the pyramid set out by the FA. But based upon the different leagues for different regions, there are 20 tiers in total with the lowest being Central & South Norfolk League Division 4, Devon & Exeter Football League Division 8 and Lancashire & Cheshire Amateur League Division C

[@fullsendgolfsimulators]

good explainer as usual Tifo

[@llSuperSnivyll]

I wish Argentina had such a structured, and mostly inflexible football pyramid.

[@josecipriano3048]

Mobility is important to football? Tell that to the americans who are starting to own all clubs and who want to have closed leagues with no relegation or promotion.

[@realtalk6195]

People with non-British citizenship should be banned from owning more than 50% of National League or higher-tier clubs. I'm including dual and triple citizens as well.

[@manuelcapela7620]

The names of some of the lower divisions are awesome.

[@terreonnhenry5778]

Wow who would've thought I would be up this late to be first on a tifo video

[@Crimson-xw9xu]

I used to play as a winger for a club in National league North while in highschool but after a ACL injury, an ankle sprain and a hamstring pull i have now decided to quit football but i will return to my firmer club as a manager for sure

[@bizarresportynerd6136]

Great video! I play all the way down at step 7😂 Been great to watch hashtags progress too

[@dupregaming8788]

Despite how rubbish I am at football, I was lucky enough to play at the 16th level of English football 😂 New club called Elmstead Market in the Essex and Suffolk Border League Division 5. Although my dreams of being a professional footballer are obviously gonna stay dreams, it’s still surreal to me to say I played for a team on the English pyramid and played their first ever game!

[@Polyester4458]

That is so cool

[@manning0]

Great summary! I think it's important for all fans to support their local non-league club, especially now Premier League and even football league teams are charging extortionate prices and ruining their clubs. Support a big club but go to support a non-league club, even if just on international breaks!

[@pg245091]

In France it's Ligue 1 and L2 (both professional) National, N2, N3 (semi pro and amateur) Regional 1, 2, 3 (amateur); organized by regional area as the name implies Departmental 1 through potentially 8 (amateur) So, up to 16 levels in all, with promotion / relegation throughout. It's rare for a team to move dramatically because the finances are often not there (you need a proper stadium to play in the top flight), but in the annual Cup, amateur clubs from the N2-N3 leagues (level 4 or 5) routinely make it to the quarter finals, or even the final (Calais in 2000).

[@divochicken2244]

I am a cypriot and our pyramid is kinda simple: 1. Cypriot First Division (16 teams) 2. Cypriot Second Division (16 teams) 3. Cypriot Third Division (16 teams) Then, it's a bit more regional, as it gets semi-professional: 4. STOK Elite Category (2 groups of 12 teams) After, it is divided in regions, Cyprus has like 6 main regions, but there are 11 championships in 5th tier. Each abbreviation is an abbreviation of the region's pyramid, which is like 2-5 steps, depending on region (don't ask me what regions have what steps, I only follow 1-3 divisions and one team from 5th). 5. AOKNEL (10 teams) APOESP (11 teams) EBEL (10 teams) EPOL (10 teams) EPOPL (9 teams) OPN SEC (11 teams) A' PAAOK (A means first, there is also second and third I believe) (21 teams (2 groups)) PAO (9 teams) POAL (12 teams) 1st POEL (12 teams) POASP (12 teams) I dunno why I wrote this, just wanted to share. P.S. we also have different cups. Divisions 1 and 2 play The Cyprus Cup (the most elite one which gives place in UEL qualifiers), Division 3 and STOK Elite play in the Cup for 3rd and 4th Division and each region has its small cups.

[@darger3]

As an American - I had no idea how deep that pyramid goes. That is insane. Seems like virtually everyone either plays in a club or knows someone who does.

[@reihanhaekal5458]

There are 40.000+ clubs in England with 600+ leagues. (Source Wikipedia)

[@cardboardcapeii4286]

Wow that’s crazy. That’s almost 1/1000th of the population

[@WrongedSports]

As an american the english football system is so interesting and proves that even the lowest team can make it to the premier league, obviously with the players, money, and interest to go along with it. Thats impossible in nearly any other sport around the world

[@banjopiggottwright1802]

As a proud Australian myself, the English pyramid structure is something that I truly admire as a piece of sporting competition infrastructure. I believe that more soccer and non-soccer competitions worldwide should embrace this model or something similar to it, as it makes every game within each respective competition matter, but also rewards teams for doing well and punishes team for not doing well respectively.

[@ivanflores6345]

As an American, I can only wish we had a system like this.

[@dondamon4669]

What's soccer? This is about football?

[@ivanflores6345]

@@dondamon4669 Jesus Christ, you people are just so insufferable.

[@seemymobot4987]

Yes but there are positives to your sporting systems as well that I think we could learn from. Like incorporating university sports into the professional system and the lack of relegation that guarantees finances, so no teams end up dissolving. @@ivanflores6345

[@GamerFrisco]

Aussies and Irish have to call it soccer because they have their own styles of football. Same with US even tho its more like rugby than football

[@ugoeze7360]

a. At what level does a team’s stadium size and finance prohibits them from moving up? b. If a new team is created, is there a particular level they have to start at? Or can they at any level within reason (e.g., a new super rich club isn’t allowed to join the Premier League automatically)?

[@oliverd8298]

There's certain stadium regs depending on the level. Like one of our local teams in Sheffield, Hallam FC. Promoted last season into the 9th tier with 1200 people there to watch but because of the stadium I don't think they'd be allowed to go up again without improvements

[@oveleoj4111]

I think the stadium requirements mostly kick in from level 10 and above, a key one I know are that one of my local teams Haringey Borough would need to make changes if they were promoted to the National League South because they only have one entrance to the ground and need multiple. There's also the step up from the National League to League Two where you're no longer allowed to use artificial pitches and the step up from the Championship to the EPL where you have to make a ton of adjustments for media and broadcasting e.g. Luton at Kenilworth Road this year When it comes to finance, the only possible thing I can think of is that semi-professional teams might not be allowed to join League Two but I can't confirm that New teams typically start at Level 10 or 9 if they have good backing e.g. Hashtag or phoenix clubs like Bury and Macclesfield

[@foglet1]

@@oveleoj4111pretty sure the Macclesfield documentary said they entered the pyramid at level 8. Unfortunately the glorious Exmouth Town probably won’t reach the same heights Mac will ):

[@peterwilson8472]

To your question B - no they wouldn't be able to start at any level they wanted, which is why you'll often see rich people try to buy existing clubs in the PL rather than start a new one. New clubs league positioning will often depend on what spaces there are in their local leagues, but it will usually be around step 5/6

[@benwheeler8456]

@@oveleoj4111I haven’t heard the name Haringey Borough since Sonny Dutton volleyed one in against you lot away to Hornchurch in 2019

[@Opandort]

Can you make a video how young football players study in school? Just like gavi, perdi, jude,haaland,.... Do they go to school or college or not ?

[@michaelarmer256]

they stay in schol in the uk until they have their GCSE's at age 16. the law in the uk also now requires they go on either a-levels or college courses until 18 or an work experience/ apprentiship. clubs will offically sign players up like that once school is done at 16 and run an academy which fullfils the requirement until 18. and they will do some other learning during this time at most clubs even more so once players find out they are unlikely to become a pro. starting on coaching badges. phhyso training even becoming a match offical but this process probably doesn't happen much after the league 2 system as national league sides and below can't afford this set up but they will still have youth teams just on a less formal basis evening training whilst the young lads go to college or or a -levels

[@daniellekelli6265]

Football will never die in England

[@GamerFrisco]

Well duh... it started here

[@daniellekelli6265]

@@GamerFrisco you forgot to insert eyes rolling up, b*tch

[@louiepk]

Please do one in Scottish footballs pyramid down to the highland league & explaining the junior system over in Scotland it would be great!

[@joso7228]

I was clogging around in the mud for my local team and was told the game was actually part of the FA Cup. Sure it was probably the 18th Qualifying Round but i got an extra sprint on.

[@loftus8660]

I always find it interesting how the promotions and relegations work when it gets to the regional level, must be a lot of work required for those in charge of the whole structure to figure out which team has to go where when they are litterally hundreds of leagues! One thing ive always wondered, is when a team is added somewhere in amongst the period (i.e. afc wimbledon) what happens to the other teams? Did they take the place of a liquidated team? Otherwise doesnt it mean that a team would have to forego a promotion or relegation to allow then to be added to the division?

[@RevStickleback]

The lower down you go, the less consistent the number of teams is, so there tends to be gaps were clubs could be added, normally around Step 6.

[@potatogirlcultist19]

Why is no one talking about how badass *SUPREME* Division sounds. Even though you are in tier 9. You could probably convince a couple of Yanks that your team played in the top tier by saying that.

[@rhysjackson2597]

Mad to think Bishops Stortford are in the National League North when they're only 30 odd miles away from London!

[@markburke1396]

This is something I wish TIFO would have explained further in the videos. If you have 20 teams in North and 20 teams in south and if the bottom 3 teams get relegated (I don't actually know how many get relegated) from South, they would each have to go into 1 of the 4 more local regions. but if all 3 teams happen to be from the same region (e.g. Southern Premier League South) and should all go into this league, this league will have too many teams then. while the other 3 leagues (Northern, South Central & Isthmian) will now have too few as they will have teams being promoted. I guess this is where some board decide that certain teams need to play in a different league just to keep the numbers the same across the board. So the leagues are a bit more fluid in their concept.

[@rhysjackson2597]

@markburke1396 it is a bizarre one, I would think it's worked out on 'furthest north goes to the northern division' which would be logical. The further down the pyramid you go this must get complicated once you're talking about which county a club is based in if it's county specific, so tier 8 or below. As for Stortford this isn't the first time they've been moved to the NL north, in either 2010/11 or 11/12 they were moved from the NL South to the North and then moved back at a later date!

[@jokir67]

Well being a Blyth Spartans fan all this sideways movement is not something we will ever have to worry about! At step 2 or below it’ll be the ‘Northern’ most division come what may. Pleased this season in the NLN we have Darlo, Shields and Spenny to help with the travelling. If we stay up could really do with Morpeth winning the NPL.

[@michaelhurley3171]

I thought our American football fans were passionate, but our most passionate fans are nowhere near UKs least passionate! They live for these games!

[@ArsenalIsTrash]

???

[@TechManWill]

Can’t believe you made a video about the football pyramid without mentioning Dorking Wanderers!

[@johnfitzalan3128]

Have to say that the midlands teams get quite confusing, I’ve known teams bouncing around the leagues, often teams at the same step playing in different leagues despite being within 5 miles of each other.

[@Kinitawowi]

I was born in Kings Lynn, who were always an awkward spot - they'd either end up as the southernmost team in the Northern League or the northernmost team in the Southern League. (Southern League tended to suit us better because it's a lot easier to travel south from Kings Lynn than it is to travel north...)

[@jkyeah8033]

The national league south attendance record has just been broken by Yeovil town

[@eizzah8323]

In France our leagues are similar 1. Ligue 1 (pro) 2. Ligue 2 (pro) 3. National (some pro clubs and some amateur ones) 4. National 2 (4 pools, soon 3 pools, last level accessible to professional club reserves) 5. National 3 (for now 11 pools but will be reduced to 10 then 8 pools in future seasons) Then it's regional leagues with Régional 1 and 2 then départemental leagues and it depends on how each région handles that Note that ultramarine territories all have their own system not integrated here but can enter Coupe de France

[@IndianB787]

Oohh

[@graceygrumble]

My team is South Shields (tier 6). Also, NUFC (Prem). Back in the day, Newcastle played at home one week and SSFC played at home the next. I took my young nephew to watch the Mariners. He was a Man U fan back then (my brother lives there with his Man U wife) and he asked "Is South Shields a Conference team?". "Oh no!", I said "They're not as good as that!". (Level 9 at the time). It blew his mind. 20 years later, he supports NUFC (he 'came out' to his mates at 14) and still keeps a weather eye on the Mariners' results. My brother was right. When I admonished him for allowing his young lad to wear a Manc shirt he said, "It's not worth the hassle. We'll get him eventually,". More help could be given to the lower leagues, considering the money washing around in football, but it is a beautiful game. And if you're a South Shields and Newcastle supporter, it's character building.

[@callumbradke7194]

Should do a video on the football rivalry in Northwich. Highly political, a lot of history and very complicated

[@xclusive_comicxx1651]

Really loved the fact that Vee was really open, your response was entirely sincere and she demonstrated that she was invested in the relationship from the get go... I hope she finds herself someone that would love her as she deserves

[@tdyerwestfield]

The attendance record for National League South was broken last weekend by Yeovil Town with an attendance over 6500.

[@TheGDJames]

I'm just thinking, that for all these levels and matches, there are also referees and linesmen.

[@yolibeatz5650]

Great video! It would be interesting to see the salaries as well. Where is the line where you stop being paid and need to pay yourself?

[@alexanderjoyce5072]

From what I researched clubs from South West London’s pyramid looks like this: Premier League Championship League 1 League 2 National League National League South Isthmian Premier Division Isthmian South Central Division Combined Counties Premier Division Combined Counties Division 1 Surrey Elite Intermediate League Surrey SE Intermediate Division 1 Surrey SE Intermediate Division 2 Surrey SE Intermediate Division 3 Surrey SE Junior Division 1 Surrey SE Junior Division 2 Surrey SE Junior Division 3 Surrey SE Junior Division 4 Surrey SE Junior Division 5 Wimbledon & District Premier Division Wimbledon & District 1st Division Wimbledon & District 2nd Division Wimbledon & District 3rd Division

[@eligerus2622]

So this means that in some regionscit is possible to play LEVEL 18, but in other regions maybe only in LEVEL17, because there arent that many clubs in the area. Correct?

[@carlosximenes4171]

In Brazil our system is kinda of a mess We have 4 National Divisions 1. Brasileirão (20 clubs) 2. Série B (20 clubs) 3. Série C (20 clubs) 4. Série D (64 clubs) The 64 teams of Serie D are the 4 teams relegated from the Serie C, and 60 teams classificated by the State Leagues So the States League are a lower division? No Every club plays in the State League In the Rio de Janeiro State League we have games between a club with no division x Flamengo, for example The 60 spots remaining in the Serie D are awarded for the best teams in the state wich are not in the first 3 divisions. Every state has a determined number of spots. And, also, in bigger States (like São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro) the State Leagues have their own pyramids, currently the São Paulo State League has 5 divisions

[@charlesray9674]

"Mess" is an understatement!! 😂 Pele started the ball rolling getting promotion/relegation system in some sort sanity. There were too many were the big clubs were allowed to avoid relegation or change the format mid season....

[@carlosximenes4171]

@@charlesray9674 in Pelé's time we only have one championship who reunited the states league champions. There aren't relegation or promotion. In fact, that only started in 2003, before that Every the format changed to give privilege to the biggest clubs

[@ChessCubesClipsCricketofficial]

Manchester City, if charged 3 points for each charge, would finish 2nd in the national league, assuming they do a centurions season without the 13 point deduction for the national league.

[@KingAlanI]

I knew there were many levels, but thanks for details on the lower ones I'm an American so I got into the sport via EPL matches on TV/streaming so that's most of what I watch, and other countries' top leagues or EFL games are what's otherwise most available yet I have started going to the local minor league team's games in person

[@IndianB787]

Its really deeeeeeeeeeeeeppppp

[@MrJorge3010]

I think level 24 is as far as it goes? In FM21 I had a custom database that went all the way down to level 14 and my god were there a lot of teams lol

[@DrabekNewburn]

I played with that database in FM18 or whichever year it was. The problem is that the levels all feel identical this far down.

[@jadmantoura4483]

Hot take: The English Football Pyramid is more interesting than the Egyptian Pyramids

[@myownlilbubble]

Too bad the British could not steal that one too.....

[@lordgemini2376]

@@myownlilbubble If you believe it was only the Brits doing that then you really are inyourownlilbubble 🤣

[@handsworth101]

I love English Football but the pryamids at Giza are the greatest wonder in the world

[@realtalk6195]

@lordgemini2376 It was mostly Brits, French and Americans stealing relics from Egypt. But the Brits are the ones who de-facto colonized Egypt the longest between the 1800s and mid-1900s. Are we seriously at the point where people are denying British imperial history? If you're trying to deflect, then maybe bring a spotlight to Russian colonial history across Eurasia or German overseas colonial history, and both their genøcides which don't get talked about, instead of trying rewrite British history?

[@josephweir6754]

Wow amazing, a Tifo video that shows a level I have played at!

[@garystill1308]

my local team AFC Fylde has had a similar journey, being in level 10 and working there way up too 5 level within 10 years and almost made it to level 4's League two but unfortunately missing out on overpaid team Salford city.

[@TruongLeChinh]

great video! really appreciated the insights on the football pyramid. but honestly, i think people overhype the lower leagues too much. yeah, they have their charm, but aren’t we sometimes just romanticizing mediocrity?

[@V-O-V]

People often lament the money the Premier League has but I think its hard for outsiders to quantify just how obsessed England is with football. Theres a reason the TV rights go for so much

[@callumwood9333]

4:00 nice mention of my local Sunday league club 🤣

[@mlondimagubane8851]

Is it more likely to rise from national league to Premier league champions or to fall from the current big 6 to the national league?

[@southofthemersey7351]

Obviously the former. Consistently winning and reinvesting the squad and club facilities is difficult. Losing is easy.

[@mlondimagubane8851]

@southofthemersey7351 i mean which is more likely to happen

[@mankytoes]

@@mlondimagubane8851 Well the former might even happen if Disney decide to buy out Wrexham and pour real resources into them. The latter isn't unthinkable, but probably only in the form of a pheonix club. If Tottenham or Man City were in bad enough shape from their current states to get relegated that far, they'd probably go out of business first.

[@trickygoose2]

I would say it is slighyl more likely that a team rises from National League to Premier League Champions as the wealth and large fanbases of the big 6 makes it extremely unlikely that they could ever fall that far.

[@trickygoose2]

Slightly!

[@307pug205]

My best friend plays for a team in tier 6 of the women’s game, and team is on course for promotion to tier 5, currently unbeaten this season

[@lewismarshall4170]

Thanks for this just ran my furthest run yet st 11k and now I’m feeling nice and recovered😊

[@commenter8640]

It's so cool learning about teams with unusual, almost exotic names like Leatherhead or MK Dons, or even Stockport County, etc. Makes pictures of 100 years worth of heritage flash before your eyes, leather boots, industrial spirit, small-town heroes, that time when there was a giant-killing. Ronnie Radford scoring that screamer against Liverpool for example. Ridiculous fixtures in places you've never heard of, in grounds that have witnessed so much. FA Cup Round 21 😂 for example, for some team that has managed to get into some form. Also, I'd argue that Preston North End have suffered the biggest falls in the pyramid. Founding members of Division 1 in 1889. Two time Division 1 champions in the late 19th century. Now they play in League 1 or 2. Even watching Sky Sports highlights of lower league games is special. The competition, the primal aggression, the obscure locations, the half-empty stands but a spirited 200 or so backing their team on a dreary, sometimes foggy, sometimes wet, freeze-yer-bum Sunday afternoon. It's special and there's nothing quite like non-league or lower-league footie. It's a real cultural phenomenon. Edit: Special mention, Stoke City. They last played top tier when it was still the Barclays Premier League, and Shaquiri was in their books. Any idea which league they play in now?

[@iLO80]

Stoke City play in the Championship.

[@lordgemini2376]

Letherhead is an actual place name just so you know haha

[@durfeecoach1]

How is this possible. Seems every neighborhood would have it's own league.

[@SteveG-k8q]

There's actually more than what's shown here, every town and city also has its own pub leagues 😂

[@cdprince768]

One day you could be playing for a pub club, and in 70 years your grandson could be in the Premier League.

[@feka2983]

Dorking Wanderers started as a pub team in 1999 and are already in the national league - 1 promotion from the football league and only 4 from the premier league

[@SociallyDeformed]

Finally seen my home team mentioned in a Tifo video! (Torquay United). What are the chances of getting a whole video on them? We’ve had some notable players over the years; Chris Waddle, Neville Southall and Lee Sharpe to name a few

[@KingAlanI]

As Everton is my PL club, I'm quite familiar with the name Neville Southall - before my time but oft mentioned as a club legend from the 1980s glory days. TIL Torquay was the vast majority of his post-Everton career.

[@BOABModels]

I think the term 'Premier League' has become rather diluted throughout its use in the non-league system.

[@trickygoose2]

To be fair I know the Northern Premier League, for example, existed for some years before the Premier League was formed.

[@BOABModels]

@@trickygoose2 fair enough to them I suppose.

[@SteveG-k8q]

Not really, it's the top regional league

[@theastonvillaseal585]

So if they don’t have enough spots, they might end up in a different league?

[@RMworld673]

There are so many Pro Football clubs in England and Europe, so much that they've made Football a profession in reality. Aspiring players have so many options. It's also because their associations and audience promotes the sport that way. To make Football a profession, association and audience in a region should play a huge role in developing such platform and craze.

[@kapsel-yg2sk]

And almost all national federations around the world adapted the system not long after it's establishment

[@chrishanzek8930]

Where along the pyramid does it change from professional to semi-pro to amateur players?

[@crissal4730]

My understanding is The National League includes full time professional sides and semi pro teams as well as the National League North and South.

[@barefootbarbarian]

Pls can you reply to my question What happens when you reach the very bottom and get relegated?

[@RandomVideosFirst]

Jesus Christ didn’t know the pyramid was that deep , makes me want to play football manager with the lowest ranked team and see how long it would take to reach the premier league .

[@thebus-ter]

ikr

[@LaurenceTurner14]

AFC Wimbledon from the Combined Counties to League Two in only 9 years. And all while being fan owned. And now we are back at Plough Lane where we belong 💙💛

[@mathandcflmao]

Ohhh mann!!!! Videos like this make me wish my city (Agra, India) had a football club and I could go to their matches too😢

[@challanjarrett7604]

What about Dorking Wanderers they have one of the most, if not the most, impressive climbs in the in the English Football Pyramid. I stand under correction, but I believe they had 16 promotions in their history and they are now playing in the National League.

[@feka2983]

13 promotions not 16 but still remarkable