My 2-Week Classic WoW BETA Review

[@TipsOutBaby]

Hopefully I'll be able to upload more after the move over these next few days. Sorry for the absence guys - believe me, I'm ITCHING to get back!

[@ostricho7307]

Ur epic dont worry

[@alexnas9634]

ive played Vanilla wow and i played up till wrath and i NEVER got beta keys for anything so why bother even paying monthly to have a CHANCE at a key, fuck that.

[@SMGGMS1]

Please Ask Blizzard to add an extra 3rd Server where more random invites gets in .. the more in the better chances bugs/problems get reported .

[@cptpocket]

Hey sir. Quick thing I wanted to mention. I am a non content creator that immediatly got in. My account has been active since the original beta in 2004 and earlier. I've noticed the same for many players currently in beta. Makes sense to me, we are people who can more easily identify bugs etc. I hope this helps ! Merci !

[@Dbrammer]

Tyriwtoe

[@freemind222]

Classic WoW is the reason ill have a wow subscription again after 8 years....

[@ianblackburn75]

Regarding the hitbox issue. Remember we're playing on much faster internet connections now. I was still on dialip in Vanilla. The hitboxes were probably larger to compensate for the lag and so they didn't "feel" as large to us then as they do now.

[@Edog1337]

Ian Blackburn tipsout is just wrong and crying about his private servers memories. My memories of vanilla, in conjunction with blizzard’s reference server data are correct

[@terraincognitagaming]

This excuse doesnt make sense. Europe were on fucking Fiber as early as 2000. Sweden, we had 100mbit already in 2001, through Fiber. Connection bullshit excuse doesnt work, only applies to NA. Hitboxes werent that big. Elites also hit much harder. I remember questing on a priest in WPL and it was a pain in the ass, hard as hell just taking on a single mob.

[@dagazrune6453]

Is Blizzard going to fix the Hitbox issue since there isn't a need for it to be that big in today's world? I thought the purpose of WoW Classic was to bring back the feel of OG MMOs where community mattered and Open World was a thing.

[@mascleanthony8106]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHKxln2VoaiGjsU

[@nero91]

@@terraincognitagaming We still dont have fiber in germany...

[@jansteyaert1]

of course streamers get access it's not a "beta" it's pure publicity. If you think leveling is slow now just wait till you can level higher than 30... the formula for xp is 8*current level*xp for killing a mob equal to your lvl so at lvl1 that would be (8*1)*50 = 400. however at around lvl 30 there is a hidden difficulty modifier that kicks in and it would look something like: (8*1)+3(the modifier)*50= 550 so at lvl 30 you need roughly 37% extra experience at lvl 31 you need 75% extra etc... This is why leveling to 30 is rather fast and leveling gets really slow the higher you get(cause the modifier keeps going up) for example at lvl 59 with the normal formula you would need (8*59)*345= 162840 however with the modifier that becomes eight times current level + 5* current level minus 30 *xp for one mob so 8*59= 472 difficulty modifier: 5*(59-30) = 145 472+145= 617 xp per mob at lvl 59: 45+(5*59)=340 617*340 = 209780 so if there was no xp modifier you would need 476 mobs to level from 58 to 59 however because of the modifier you need 617. Needless to say killing 476 mobs is way faster than killing 617. I'm sorry... I'm a bit of a nerd xD

[@phase2man]

Regarding testing, I appreciate streamers like Joana that have made it a priority to test the game content from a leveling perspective. Several other streamers too. They are doing the Lord's work in Classic WoW.

[@michaelholloway5646]

The elite dungeon mob thing is that it's 1.12. I can't remember when, but... sometime around the time of AQ40 the lower level dungeons got a nerf. I specifically remember recreating a new character the same class as my main and leveling it up to run Deadmines just to see how big of a change it was. If I remember right it happened because of a class patch. They rebalanced the talent trees toward level 60 parity since most of the playerbase by that point was level 60. It made some of the low and mid level balance between builds and classes off, and blizzard over-corrected lower level dungeons on a worst case group talent makeup. Everything should get back to harder in dungeons as you go up in levels. I may be talking out my ***, but I remember something like that happening.

[@Octrox]

Got specific patch notes? The fact that a group of level 30's can clear SM cathedral is pretty absurd. They kept alive fighting a lvl 42 boss with the tank not losing aggro, without anyone dying and without the healer going OOM. I hope you are right that the dungeons get harder, but SM cathedral is not a low level dungeon...

[@michaelholloway5646]

@@Octrox Don't have patch notes. The rebalance started around... 1.7... 1.8... Somewhere in there. Was a rework of 1-2 class talent trees per point release. The dungeon changes themselves I'm pretty sure were a stealth patch. Got a blue post because of the size of the changes, but didn't hit patch notes. Would have to go through forums from back then.

[@Nerobyrne]

also, a lot of improvements in talents would make dungeons a bit easier, as well as the fact that we now know things like BIS for most level brackets, ideal class makeup, how to play a class, etc. I remember my balance druid having a bunch of agility gear because it was leather and I liked the look of it. I also used a big 2h mace with strength because, again, it looked cool and it was all I had. Needless to say my performance was less than optimal.

[@Nuclearcx]

I remember something similar. Most Private servers use approximations of the vanilla launch day values which were quite insane for the early dungeons like DM and BFD. (Also for Scholo but changes to that dungeon are in the patch notes). Sadly there were TONS of undocumented changes during vanilla with just some random blue posts addressing them on the forums. It's really hard to recreate the changes-by-patch history because of that.

[@brnddi]

What actually happened is that J. Allen Brack sabotaged the backup databases before Omar Gonzales recovered them to make vanilla easier, because he hates vanilla and knows that you think you do but you don't.

[@aliasoma]

Thank you for being honest about your limitations as a streamer in a testing capacity. You're the only one I've seen acknowledge that. You could leverage your position as a streamer and recruit your followers to help you bug test. Just a thought.

[@Jbayz]

Followers on twitch are too busy spamming pog.

[@miracleman.0126]

Honestly I’d still test while on stream. Make it fun. This guy could probably do it and his audience would enjoy it. I don’t really buy the excuse. That’s not meant as an insult.

[@bobthebomb6498]

I thought that. Watching the streamers during the stress test, most seemed more intent on making it to Silithus than testing the game.

[@syj401]

Your accent and pronunciation is as clear and accurate as a news anchorman. Although I am a native east Asian, I can fully understand all your words.

[@jamieweir645]

4head

[@jimmyjames4491]

Tips, love you and your content man, but I gotta say: Blizz, release the server lists and streamers publish where you will be so I can actively avoid them. I love the wow classic news you provide, Tips, and your clear passion for vanilla wow that I share, but (while WoW is a community driven game) I don’t want to be anywhere near the throngs of streamers and streamer culture. Tips, please keep us updated with news of the game and continue to test and have fun in the beta and I wish you all the best in the release with many years of fun. I’m subbed to you and enjoy your content. Streamers: continue to market classic and have a blast in beta and I hope the community goes back to 2005 levels that isn’t based on people watching others play games, meme culture, and ‘gamers’, so desperate for attention, they log into a game to become part of a hoard following a streamer for a second of fame when they appear in a big streamer’s stream. My two cents. See you gaming outcasts in August and hopefully avoiding the streams. Peace.

[@Johndoe-gd4tb]

Deckard that’s simply untrue. Demographics show majority of twitch is 18-28

[@AnaseSkyrider]

@Deckard maybe for Fortnite.

[@adamhoward7620]

@Jimmy James

[@SuperYtc1]

9:53 'I've done a tonne of escorts.' Tipsout secretly been rping in Goldshire Inn. Kappa.

[@CRASDFGH]

Imagine getting into BETA and looking for whores in Goldshire

[@zsoltsiro1310]

Looking for BETA females Get it? 4Head

[@markmoretti27]

Uranus lmao you made me laugh. Ty

[@Octrox]

Hey, moneys's tight in Classic...

[@B.M666]

This scene looks like 2 hooligan gangs before a fight XD

[@th8452]

21:00 The turtle wave was generally thought of as difficult in earlier patches of vanilla, but by 1.12 most groups seemed to handle it just fine. My two thoughts on this is 1. They nerfed the turtle wave by the time 1.12 came around. 2. Everyone got use to the encounter/got better at the game. But yes, I do remember them not being so bad by the later part of vanilla. You also have to keep in mind that you are playing with a bunch of people who have been playing this game for years and years. It's not like Vanilla when EVERYONE was new to WoW. So yea it's gonna seem easier because EVERYONE you are playing with right now is much better then the people you played with back then, likely everyone... Plus you're doing full guild runs with audio. Yea... it's not just that it seems easier, it IS EASIER not because the game is less hard but because YOU ARE BETTER.

[@shaun6991]

"I've done a lot of escorts" -Tips In

[@assassinkrug]

me too tips, me too.

[@alyeanna]

I think the main reason they have very little people in the beta at the moment is specifically because that way it's easier for them to address every specific piece of feedback you guys give them. If there are more people, there'll be more bug reports, and that'll mean it's going to be more difficult for them to really stay close to you guys. Also it's still really early, the game is still 3 months away, they don't want people to play the beta and then not play Classic as much because they have to start over.

[@erheetrherh2659]

But it makes no sense to invite streamers for the reasons he mentioned.

[@dafefaeafsfasfae126]

@@erheetrherh2659 Marketing

[@Evirthewarrior]

The upside to having all those streamers on one server it allows you to see how the servers handle so many people in one area. It seems to run well with 80+ players.

[@Esonar]

Yep, a huge meme on the private server reddit was that classic wouldn't be able to handle large battles because BFA can't. The Beta has found that to be a *LIE* 100 versus 100 in Arathi 3 days in a row and no problems. GG.

[@twosaibackbot]

cipherrrr Probably because there arent as much people on the server though

[@Shuroro]

That is the point of the stress test, the beta is for play testing mostly.

[@Evirthewarrior]

@@Shuroro So, the stress test includes people casting tons of spells and causing a bunch of load on the servers doing calculations for hitting/resisting, damage numbers, defensive spells, buffing and purging/dispelling, ECT? No it doesnt, it only has a ton of level 1s running around basically doing nothing. All those numbers have to go to the server and then back down to your client, causing latency on the server, those numbers tend to be more complex than trying to determine the position of your character on the map.

[@jcbsalexyahoo]

bfa can handle 20-40, classic can handle 100 easy

[@thiccnos4759]

thank you for reporting, what makes me not want streamers in is they don't care about testing, they are just treating the beta like early access.

[@thaherb]

as someone who has been playing this game since early 2005 and been subed for over 90% of that time its a huge bummer i didnt get an invite

[@squey4523]

I remember damage taken in leveling dungeons never being very high. The issue was offspec healers using expensive heals, tanks not being able to hold aggro and having small health pools, the level differences, and the chaos that comes with pulling more then intended in a pug environment. I imagine UBRS, strat and scholo will still be difficult. But for organized groups on comms you probably wont get that difficult dungeon experience your hoping for till BC heroics.

[@NicholasBrakespear]

Also equipment. Equipment wasn't so important in vanilla... but at the same time, it was also a lot harder to gear up. I loaded up my first 60 last year, out of curiosity - a warrior. He had a weird mix of blues, one green, two parts of tier 0, barbarous blade from Dire Maul, and a cloth hood (because it looked cool). When it comes to dungeon difficulty, it was always about proper management. If you pulled well, and didn't rush things, it wasn't that hard. But if you accidentally pulled an extra group, the difficulty could spike. So it was always the little things that got you. Personally, I think Strat will be the toughest. It's the most crowded dungeon, and has some mechanics that trip people up.

[@Anazuraion1]

If murlocks spawn at their original rates, that could be amusing as they use to respawn very quickly. Leading to a great many deaths of young adventurers.

[@AnaseSkyrider]

The murlocs in Elwynn Forest are a trial for new human adventurers in carefully pulling.

[@Naalderiis]

nah... the problem in bfd in vanilla was that people would hit all the braziers at once. there was often people that didn't know to light them one at a time because there was a bit of a delay before the mobs appeared after lighting one so at first glance it just seems like you need to hit them all. so they'd click one, look around right quick and nothing, then click the rest and it seems like almost immediately there'd be mobs to fight. there were probably a number of people who thought you just had to do your best there without knowing you could fight less mobs at a time. one at a time it wasn't a problem. all at once was rough stuff.

[@jimdyer9455]

In vanilla citizens would spawn guards. I recall many more guards in Vanilla than private.

[@samisuhonen9815]

The fact that there are loads of streamers/youtubers in the game is a good thing in my opinion. Especially if many of them end up on the same server. It really makes the world feel alive and personal when you watch like Preach's or soda's stream, and see asmongold, esfand, and staysafe run around in their group. And personally I have just started seeing people like Guzu (orc rogue) and Themechanic (nelf hunter) on big streams because they are around often. You can really start recognizing people in the world and it feels awesome.

[@seanmorin2483]

Sami Suhonen I agree

[@Avraker]

It should be slower to lvl in classic. Joana said in a countdowntoclassic interview, that lvling was significantly faster on private servers, than what they used to be.

[@johnathanwalker8395]

Because ppl know wtf they are doing now and have access to game data. People also play sports better than they did when no one knew what they were doing. Duh

[@Avraker]

@@johnathanwalker8395 Well it took PS people about 1 hour longer to get to 10 on Beta server, than it did for them on their PS server. Tips said it himself.

[@Johndoe-gd4tb]

Johnathan Walker incorrect in this context. Joana has been using the same leveling routes for a decade and a half.

[@johnathanwalker8395]

Classic=/=vanilla, thanks for continuing to prove me right

[@Cudgeon]

That is not true. You just sucked at it back then.

[@RMJ1984]

Imagine this alternate timeline, where Classic WoW, becomes so popular that it gains more players than the current live version.. Then we could get a new Vanilla expansion and take WoW in another direction. New content, but no more level cap increases, no more dumbing down. That would be insane.

[@williamlewis8513]

yes, please! level cap increasing is exactly what kills games. and slower leveling is what made the game rewarding and fun.

[@BlightBlaze583]

When are you going to make a video about the construction business bankruptcy?

[@DIEGhostfish]

Construction bankruptcies are pretty common.

[@olddirty4163]

i remember in south shore / tarren mill, they added in insane guards at one point, guards would call guards, whou would call more guards to call more guards. It is to force a stale mate in SS vs TM so that the fight would never end by 1 faction taking over the town 100%. This mechanic made the fights last forever.

[@jonathanmoseti3025]

Also never forget the hell hole that xroads was I never saw that place conquered tho I did see more out of the way places that had been completely wiped of the map at higher levels. Maybe it was only world pvp hotspots where the gaurd spawn rate was increased?

[@warhammerguy]

Judging from the background Tips has either ascended to heaven after finally being able to play Classic. Or he is about to give Neo a confusing and convoluted explanation about the Matrix.

[@jamieweir645]

ergo :D

[@docdeezer]

lmao

[@noone8418]

I can’t wait myself. My only reservation is spec changing. A thought for the future: once all vanilla content is released, make a BC server, and add a quest or just an option to copy you classic 60 character(s) to the BC server so you keep your 60 on Classic for classic Endgame and continue to 70 on BC server. 👍

[@noone8418]

chuckster houck that would be awesome. I still worry about spec changes though. It should be cheaper or easier. Like a potion.

[@noone8418]

chuckster houck that’s an interesting point. While I want the classic “feel”, I guess changes and balancing can happen. They could even add in the professions that came later. We shall see

[@MrSinaster]

They should expand on classic with a different timeline or open the game to player run polls to decide content releases

[@Volkain10]

Please show off the escort quest in desolace. The one with the goblin caravan. Literally bugged on every private server. Would be great to see it working.

[@RobertsBiezais]

Why shouldnitbbe bugged on classic wow? They have all the code

[@opacho401]

Not sure if he can do it yet since the level cap is only 30.

[@spitnolan]

yo Tips - I played a hunter as a dwarf and a tauren in classic. The hitbox thing is accurate, I'm sure of it. I would constantly get deadzoned and auttoattacked on my dwarf by tauren warriors who were standing in Egypt. It was a huge (but beautiful) problem.

[@samisuhonen9815]

Actually I think streamers make great beta testers for one important purpose. They organize and cause things that otherwise wouldn't happen. Or at least happen as often. Like Asmongold brought a black drake world boss into SW to kill the whole city, with like 50+ players. And what's amazing is that the server actually managed it without lagging too hard. Or without crashing.

[@kevinsullivan5091]

That makes sense but then when they organize races across continents during a stress test it kinda defeats the purpose and point of the lvl 5 lock. it was designed to try and force as many people into the starting areas to test server strength and sharding and respawn times ect.. They kinda spread everyone out during the stress test.

[@Johndoe-gd4tb]

That’s because there’s like 1,000 - 2,000 total on that server

[@Mprokess]

​@@kevinsullivan5091 Its funny how everybody know much better then Blizzard, what is Blizzard actualy testing :D ... cmon, they know what they want to test and they know what will give them the best informations. There will be more test and they will (probably) be diferent.

[@kevinsullivan5091]

@@Mprokess Its funy how few people actually read the blue post where blizzard says what the goal to test actually was

[@Entreri28]

I remember the hitboxes being stupid big in WoW when I first played. I think it was due to most people having poor internet back then. My typical ping was 200-600ms.

[@Blueberries409]

On the topic of aggro ranges, the devs actually posted recently saying that the current aggro ranges are correct and in line with true vanilla.

[@UnitedViva]

Can you tell me the time in video where he speak about it

[@NicholasBrakespear]

Anyone remember the old warrior charge desync bug, where you'd basically have an out of body experience because the server lost track of you, and you could walk around the entire world without being attacked by anything, because the server thought you were standing still somewhere else, and the only fix was to either relog, or get someone to show you where you were really standing... and then attack a mob from that spot (but you had to know which way you were really facing) in order to resync with the server?

[@CragtheHack1337]

avoid streamer servers. they won t be as balanced as you like them to be.

[@ch1bob]

Sepulchral Miasma a lot of nerds do

[@meags4312]

Great review and perceptions brought up here. I have already been excited to return to vanilla but am skeptical on how they execute. I began playing in 05' and it was my favorite game. They have high expectations to meet for me personally. This video gives me hope!

[@zn4rf]

I remember the size of your grp/raid(s) is deciding how many guards spawn (in Vanilla, maybe not from the start but it was a thing).

[@ceomusic7]

1. Great job and great video as always. 2. Thank you for no spoilers. 3. I used to invade crossroads all the time on my night elf Druid and try to make friends with horde/provoke 60s for a challenge. I would only have to deal with 1-2 guards initially then they would infinitely respawn untill I left, but staying near the outside of Xroads was very manageable and they only seemed to spawn 1 at a time unless I went deeper. This was during vanilla and I was usually solo lvl 50-52

[@Itama22]

I hope there will be Alarmbots stuck in the walls at Gnomeregan and calling hundreds of mobs at you like it was back then xD

[@Jonnecy]

ALARM ALARM ALARM!!!... rip

[@jondoh2226]

I remember the guards being much more threatening back in the day. That is something I noticed on private servers, how ineffective they were, especially in the major cities.

[@solmyr42]

Could you also make up for your relative absence by posting that druid deep dive with Skarm - kthx!;)

[@renehoyvik]

To the guards in major cities being spawned. As i remember (and i did raid cities in vanilla propper, but like you say, Mandela effect) the only guards that spawn additinal guards, are the officers and the Griphin master... Other then those two, if you can pull a single (or most likely 2) guard away from the rest, no aditional guards should spawn.

[@ampere11]

I have a bad feeling that streamer culture and private server culture is going to ruin certain classic experiences. There will be a devilsaur and lotus mafia on servers, which wasn't a thing in vanilla. This will completely wreck the consumable economies for raiding guilds. In vanilla, my raiding guild bought consumables for the officers and the top dps/hps from the previous raids, as a guild perk (a good way to keep them happy when we were wiping during progression). Not likely to happen in classic because we won't be able to afford them. Streamers are going to monopolize their servers, and there are so many that there will be popular streamers (big enough to impact the game) on every server. Forget scarab lord if you're not a streamer. That was one thing I really wanted to try and accomplish this go around, but I am resigned to the fact that me and friends will not be able to out grind a streamer and his minions. I already foresee that streamers will be poaching from guilds. I remember in vanilla when the top guilds would poach your geared tanks or healers outside of Blackrock Mountain, now picture a streamer poaching your best players, or your guild BS because you guys got lucky and Lionheart plans dropped. How are you going to keep them in guild competing with that? I think the game itself is going to be great, but the experience is going to get ruined by us, because if there is one thing gamers have taught me it's, we can't have nice things. I hope I am wrong.

[@SmugHomura]

I'm pretty annoyed by people complaining that streamers don't contribute to the beta for a couple of reasons: 1) A lot of players don't report bugs either, so that'd mean they'd be just as bad as streamers 2) Streamers have an audience, thus more eyes on the game to report bugs on forums or open up discussion in general. Huge plus. 3) It's not like Blizzard has no way of getting feedback other than bug reports, that would be insane. Bug reports are a way to provide Blizz with data. 4) Streamers often push the game further in creative ways than non-streamers could. Stuff like kiting a dragon to SW, or doing mass exploration, big events, all give valuable data that could not be obtained by an individual. Sure you can get your beta guild to try something, but chances are you'll convince only 10 or 20 people to actually join you. Streamers can very easily recruit people to do crazy stuff for entertainment and just "playing with the streamer" that allows Blizz some unique feedback. In conclusion, people that bitch about streamers in the beta are envious, entitled children. For every argument against a streamer getting beta there is an argument for having them in the beta.

[@AnaseSkyrider]

These are all very good points, and I think streamers in beta is fine, but it definitely won't be so great for the average player at launch if they're on a streamer's server.

[@littleDainolf]

The Elite damage I am sure it is true. I remember soloing alot of elite q's in vanilla that I couldn't on private servers.

[@NicholasBrakespear]

I wouldn't trust that classic will be a number perfect recreation, simply because... so much has changed, and Blizzard have already noticed a few things they missed in the past. But... yeah, elites were never a death sentence. You could definitely solo an elite or two. They were never supposed to be bosses, just... tougher than regular mobs.

[@Pumpestok]

I'm divided in the streamer aspect. I was in the original World of Warcraft beta in 04 (I think) and been playing the game untill Legion. Then unto Private servers. In some way I feel I should get an invite to this beta before streamers who have bashed the idea of Classic ever since it was announced. However I enjoy their streams and i'm glad they changed their mind and now think it's the best version ever.

[@seanmorin2483]

dNp although I’m glad the streamers changed their minds, let’s not forget that they did so.

[@lilruss713]

Moving can be a hectic time. Just happy to see you upload when you can. Thanks for the content!

[@daydreamical]

Thanks for a really a great video man. Great roundup of everything going on atm , all very well structured and to the point with clear explanation of things. One can see you put lots of work into your videos and that really shows. Looking forward to your next ones, keep up the great work! /bow

[@Dodgyboy43]

mobs used to run at 50% in vanilla, i remember it happening in BRD. i trust blizzard's numbers over what 'seems right' no offense

[@godwings101]

I don't know, as a wow vet it feels like it was always around 20-30%. I don't ever remember getting a mob to half and it running.

[@GemayelDaniel]

Thats not the point. I see lots of people responding that way to each question raised about anything "possibly" being wrong. Yes blizzard have the reference clients to check. However since the game was made by stripping everything added after 1.12 patch, this can cause issues where the numbers in the formula is correct but the formula is calculated differently. And blizz themselves cant check every possible scenario. This is why they do the beta to go and check when someone raises an oddity. This is not a competition, there is no keeping scores who was right... Since over time formulas for damage output, damage reduction, resist chance and % and so many other factors.

[@dravot]

Elite damage: I have a theory on this. First off Blizzard is not lying here for starters. The control they are using “is what it is”. But it is only a snapshot at the end of the Classic cycle. Perhaps the elites were harder in earlier versions but received nerfs over the lifetime of the game. So, you remember properly for the time you were leveling but by the time the last patch came out you were not leveling anymore so you never experienced the elites with the nerfs. I have no hard evidence to back this up, it is only a theory.

[@raadic5260]

Thats interesting. Blizzard have said that they have the 1.12.1 data, not necessarily earlier patches. I think they should make the Classic experience as difficult as it ever was. Its still Vanilla, everything from 1.0-1.12.1 goes.

[@Jsten16]

I don't mind that content creators have priority to invites, bu only if they are a WoW content creator. People like shroud and pokimane, greek that have No experience in the game in general, should not have been granted access.

[@Grodir]

shroud and no experience xD

[@erdemsekerpare]

No to the keyboard turners aswell. They should be banned from pc universe. Fooking joypad lovers.

[@hochmeisterr]

you can add Summit1g LUL

[@Jsten16]

@@Grodir shroud only had a few days on each character. Yeah He says he played in classic but judging from his streams he really wasn't a big WoW player.

[@0xzi]

played tauren alt for vanilla, I VERY distinctly remember tanking ony was a big of a pain in the ass because you couldn't get her all the way up to the wall like any other race could. It did have an advantage on a handful of bosses but they were extremely minor I think the best way to tell is to go watch Pats pvp video to see the tauren hitbox work its magic, when he charges anybody he's like fucking 10ft away from them when he starts hitting them. Compare the end of his charge and how far away he is vs any other race in the game when they charge and it's extremely obvious. It was definitely 100% that way in vanilla

[@Actionlutz]

I am pretty disappointed by the low damage, the difficulty on private servers seemed alright from my memories. Maybe they should consider buffing the mobs damage, as people know more about the game today and we get the final 1.12 talents and items from the beginning. What most people want out of the game is the experience of a difficult to play WoW that is not that retail easy mode stuff.

[@ageni6907]

Because it´s beta, I am sure they may change that damage soon or later. As from my memory, I remember RFK with lvl 22+ was still hard even with "tank". So yes, let´s hope they chenge it as used to be.

[@Actionlutz]

@@ageni6907 they have compared the damage to their reference original version, the current damage seems to be correct

[@ageni6907]

@@Actionlutz Well, unfortunatelly I cannot compare it because of low rate of beta invites. Anyway I don´t know If even reference original version could have some minor errors.

[@michaelkpate]

I can remember the BFD turtles between Wrath and whenever they took them out. They were definitely challenging.

[@Playinard]

21:02 But he didn't play vanilla back in the day :/ Why dem lies

[@MartialArtzz]

Playinard 18 million lies in construction fraud

[@nisx2012]

Interesting, Mark Kern said that there used to be a dynamic respawn system in the starting zones. They added that before 1.12

[@robertg9184]

Where did he say this?

[@FruitNut]

appreciate your dedication. can't wait to get in and check everything out. Have a nice move.

[@godwings101]

My theory on the aggro range: servers use to be worse back then and where we were standing on our screen didn't match where we were on the server and when something came within range of where we were on the server it would aggro to us. Server and player latency being much lower than before causes aggro range to seem less when it's actually not.

[@perkan8290]

Imagine being a streamer or ytuber and not make a video about Classis, that would be savage af.

[@depravedregime5288]

that would be grumpy cat savage mate

[@Azralynn]

I had a couple people tell me they didn't pay to be subbed, but they did also say they had an active account because of whatever that coin thing in in BFA that gives you subscription time.

[@rurouni4974]

Are you going to continue the deep dive series?

[@TipsOutBaby]

yes

[@rurouni4974]

@@TipsOutBaby hell yeah

[@Itama22]

wasn't there some kind of mechanic in vanilla WoW where NPCs could call additional guards, if they see you? I could be wrong though and I'm thinking of another game.

[@NicholasBrakespear]

No, that's how it worked. You get near a civilian, and they'd start shouting something, and guards would spawn near them and insta-aggro on you. If you aggro'd the flight master, he'd spawn a load of the flight mobs.

[@VS666]

i do recall that mechanic. they would kinda of just appear next to them if you attacked them. also if you get close to them they would stand there and say something and guards might appear too.

[@Uhdksurvhunter]

Never caught one of your vids this early! Hope you moving is going as smooth as possible :)

[@rasmusrosskruse5641]

Thank you for your videos and streams. Regarding the low elite damage I was also surprised at first. But after thinking a bit about it I remembered my extensive ZF runs; I was a noob warlock and I thought it was good for me to take some hits from the trash mobs - to share the load. At the same time I stacked almost exclusive intellect because the tooltip listed it giving more spell crit - ~1500 hp was the result if I remember correct (unbuffed). If I could survive a couple of hits with cloth armor and low hp in generel you should have no problem as a tank. Keep up the good work.

[@phobosmoon4643]

Been too busy grinding irl to catch your streams thanks for the viddy homie! Good content!

[@mufasalord]

From my memory I remember hunters mele range/hit box always being ridiculous in vanilla. I think it was to make up them not being able to use their bow/guns at close range. Definitely never felt natural. I’m pretty sure vanilla wow always had questionable hitbox ranges though. Just my 2 cents

[@chameleonedm]

There should be a dead space in-between hunters melee and range weapons

[@SinOfAugust]

I want a checkbox on the server list that would put me into servers without ANy streamers.

[@bradbecker4297]

Do you also have a personal chef??

[@Ras548]

Yeah a checkbox would be really nice. You can't know every streamer since there are way to many already and when you find out your level will propably be already high enough that it hurts to switch servers.

[@Rinavani]

Hopefully they send out more invites and raise the level cap. I’ve heard other people say that there just isn’t enough people in right now.

[@Kanfutizer]

Sure it would be nice, but if they have enough bug reports and found bugs there is no need to invite more testers.

[@Kanfutizer]

Game looks so smooth on this video somehow compared to streams. Having played the demo I know it is even smoother than it looks. Classic wow

[@maximusjoseppi5904]

Such a cringy comment... You're obsessing over how "smooth" a game designed to run on a 56k modem, 800mhz processor, 256mb of ram, and a 32mb graphics card is in 2019....

[@Kanfutizer]

@@maximusjoseppi5904 It's running on a different game engine, that's why it feels so smooth compared to the one you described. Still I kind of agree, counting days and hours to a 15 year old game, cringyyy.

[@NicholasBrakespear]

​@@maximusjoseppi5904 The older the game, often the harder it is to get it to run well. Crisis is notorious for having shitty performance on modern machines, for example, because it wasn't built with multicore technology in mind.

[@ZeusTheGodSoA]

Are the graphics updated at all? I can't wait for this. This is probably when i get back into it finally. I hope to find people to play with.

[@johnarildramberg3132]

There is an option to either play with the classic settings or BFA, but character models will stay the same

[@ozijak]

Great video man, really great point of view. We are all so hungry for classic news and info.

[@Volkain10]

21:30 The turtles at the end of BFD are overturned on private servers. I have very vivid memories of doing this dungeon back during actual vanilla and it wasn't anywhere near as difficult as what I experienced on nost. That being said the encounter is definitely no pushover and I do have memories of wiping to it.

[@gg5115]

it would be impossible to wipe on them now, I was watching. Those turtles deal 10-12 damage per hit in the beta.

[@akamaih6463]

If there are 1200-1600 beta testers (as estimated in this video) and 50 of them are streamers / content creators that leaves plenty of people to do "beta testing".

[@siferuk]

Gutted I didn't get into the beta, played since day 1, just happy its almost here! :D

[@gerbie42]

The hitbox bugs are probably not bugs, I think a lot of that was added purposely in the original vanilla WoW due to latency back then. If this is the case then I think they should be adjusted to what feels right with the game as it runs today. Because otherwise it simply looks and feels wrong with the game running so smoothly now.

[@michaelac7320]

Yeah its strange isnt it. We are in a situation where Blizzard know what its meant to be and we dont... maybe some changes to make the game better, but it might just be that we all have to get used to a new meta.

[@gerbie42]

​@@michaelac7320 Very true. I just hope they make a clear difference between any changes they make that adjust tone/feeling of the game and technical changes to be on par with how the game can run nowadays. The feeling/tone of the game with all it's little quirks should remain as close to vanilla WoW as possible, but technical changes to reflect lower latency, better computers etc, should be adjusted I think, especially if they were implemented back then to deal with a specific issue that is no longer an issue and just looks weird now. But that might be an unpopular opinion.

[@Jdfskitz]

Im surprised nobody remembers this.

[@gerbie42]

@@Jdfskitz So you're saying it was like that back in vanilla? I recall the hitboxes being bigger to make melee being able to hit people on the run even with bad latency, but I personally don't recall people being able to hit eachother from that far away. But hey, maybe I'm mistaken, memory can do weird things. Ok so if we take it as fact, that it was like that back then. A question to you, with todays lower latency and smoother running game, would you want people to be able to hit eachother in melee from that far away or rather they fix this?

[@Jdfskitz]

@@gerbie42 i wouldn't want to change it. I created my specific race with the hitbox in mind for pvp. It's why gnome rogues were all over the place even though night elves had the better racials

[@LyneaSilver]

The limit to hourly instances was added in Wrath, not in Vanilla, but it's understandable (keeps hackers&bots from farming dungeon chests for gold to a stupid degree).

[@BrettyPOV]

Blizzard calls this a beta, i call it a promotional event. I signed the nost petition before it had 100k sigs, but pokimaine needs a beta invite.

[@emetanti]

It pretty much is, at this point they clearly have it as far as they intend and let it be shown off to be hyped.

[@bergtroll9393]

I played the game first during the open beta in 2004. The drop rate on the striders rings true. Same for the mana regen rate. I remember first playing on private servers and thinking to myself: man I must have been a noob back then, this isn't as bad as I remember it. I also seem to remember the dead zone on hunters was smaller, so what you're saying kinda makes sense about the hitbox. And finally a little anecdote: back in the open beta, you could enter normal dungeons as a raid. You couldn't do any quests like this but still. I remember raiding Wailing Caverns on my priest ;)

[@Frostshaitan]

When he talks about streamers not testing the game properly enough being an issue.. what you need to also remember is that 90% of the people crying that streamers got priority likely wouldnt test the game to that sort of level either. Its only natural that streamers will get in because its basically free advertising for the game, which will probably do more good than them actually testing the game.

[@saurlex1368]

New World from Amazon and Ashes of Creation from Intrepid both show promise imo. But I'm so keen for Classic and imagine I'll be playing a lot in the coming years, especially if they go to TBC and WotLK.

[@seanmorin2483]

Saurlex I’d like a progressive server from classic->TBC->Wrath and I’d probably play those over and over love those eras

[@xOSullyx]

Great video very informative! Personally I'm worried about the implementation of the layering system during phase 1 and I feel like it will hurt the game.

[@Nerobyrne]

I don't think so, back in the day there were a LOT less people, and possibly more servers. This is one of the biggest events in gaming in 2019, and there are a LOT more gamers today. Gaming is mainstream, and Blizzard needs to be realistic about the immense influx of "tourists" who are only there because they can play with their favourite streamer, or don't actually like the gameplay and leave again. I don't hate these people, it's not for everyone. But what other solution is there to this problem?

[@maximusjoseppi5904]

Apparently you don't know anything about servers or have the intelligence to understand not being able to play the game at all is worse than not being able to see everyone on your screen..

[@xOSullyx]

​@@maximusjoseppi5904 Fair enough. However, I'm certainly not the only one who has reserves about the layering system. Try not to get too upset though it's just a comment

[@Nerobyrne]

@@xOSullyx I don't understand your reservations though. Yeah, they didn't have it back then. But do you know what else they didn't have back then? millions of players trying to play on day 1. The game is built for around 3000 people per server, max. How do you imagine that working?

[@maximusjoseppi5904]

@@xOSullyx ya, there's lots of stupid people in the world, it doesn't validate their thoughts though haha. It's a very basic concept and not hard to understand. Not a single person has voiced a valid opinion as to why layering would be bad, there isn't one.

[@matthewkoehn5242]

Vanilla didn't have the auto spawning guards nor the stealth guards, until pre BC maybe even post BC, because they got tired of losing subs to rogues... I got my rogue to 60 just as the Highwarlord Gear could be bought with honor and I spent lots of time Ambushing and Vanishing on lowbies and 60s alike in Orgrimarr and Grom'Gol until the day Hellfire Peninsula opened up

[@grimrus1170]

Super good super right! Agreed for 100% with last part. Cheers from Rusha with love

[@thebiglost1]

I don't remember 15 yards worth of bigger, but I do remember that Tauren hit box AND melee reach were both bigger than all other character races.

[@dacruise4439]

Dungeons being way too easy is a HUGE issue imo.

[@monarckgaming2746]

Jesper Kruuse-Jensen start playing like the shitter you we’re back in 2005 then xD

[@akhsdenlew1861]

@@sfbenji i mean...none of them is doing anything special in the dungeons...since when using ur basic skills is a "veteran" thing to do?

[@honorableseddoku1098]

I respect your honesty regarding the lack of actual testing being done surrounding streamers. As someone who would really like to play the beta, it frustrates me to no end when I see some naked toon just following a streamer around instead of playing the game.

[@peterratliff1592]

There’s ABSOLUTELY NO WAY that players could clear a lvl 40 dungeon at lvl 30 in Vanilla. I played WoW from release date up until recently (when I quit because live WOW is no longer an rpg, more so a button/click mashing action game with high rng elements). I am 110% positive you could not clear SM cathedral at lvl 30 in Vanilla, even with a perfect class distribution and experienced players. I am not sold that all dungeons elites and bosses are the exact same as they were back in Vanilla.

[@peterratliff1592]

I would love some input here from fellow OG Vanilla players!

[@R3ggz]

Peter Ratliff me and my brother agree that we were stunned this is even remotely possible 1-2 levels is one thing... but 10! 10! No way could it be done

[@peterratliff1592]

R3ggz THANK YOU!! I had to stop watching Asmongold’s streams because he literally thinks he is just amazing and a “literal god” for clearing dungeons at 10-12 lvls below. Once blizz fixes this I’ll be able to watch him again when he’s getting spanked trying to kill elites 10+ lvls above him lol. Tips, you’re imo correct about BFD. In fact, most of that dungeon was MUCH more difficult in Vanilla, even when run at lvl 30-32. I just can’t accept that dungeons are clearable 10+ lvls below... that’s not how it worked. So thank you Tips, I agree with what you said re: elite damage, but I know for a fact that dungeons are just off in beta at this point. If it doesnt change, classic servers are going to be WAY TO EASY! Players will lose interest in a matter of months, and we’ll all be back to live (which I don’t play anymore) and the WOW will be dead in less than 18 months.

[@raynebaron]

I was playing in vanilla early 2005 myself and i totally agree and i am 100% sure that SM Cathedral was impossible to clear as lvl 30s. I am shocked how little effort blizzard have done to get people that actually played during vanilla, into the beta, when i look around the internet that is.

[@peterratliff1592]

Ole Inge Nummedal it is a HUGE mistake for blizzard to restrict invites like this

[@Milocinia]

I was subscribed and got into the beta but let my subscription lapse and could still play the beta while my subscription was down.

[@Rall707]

Video starts with an apology. Video is 53 minutes long. Apology is very much accepted. Keep it up man. Favorite Classic channel!

[@MiIlaheavy]

I am someone who fucked around in enemy cities a TON in vanilla and i can attest to the number of guards, you could be behind buildings in darnassus and hide perfectly take a step and have 5 on you

[@Extramark9]

Streamers and youtuber are going to ruin the wow classic experience

[@russianbot2179]

I also hope Blizzard makes an all-new Warcraft expansion that has the same design philosophy and principles as Classic Wow. Some people even suggest adding new raids after Naxxramas in Classic Wow, like Karazhan, which was originally planned to be in vanilla wow, or totally new stuff.

[@NicholasBrakespear]

I'd love a vanilla-style Stargate expansion, where you go to Uldum and into some pyramid, and there's a gate that leads to... random new worlds. Like a Rick and Morty episode; each dungeon is just some crazy, dangerous place you've never seen before. They could do anything with that premise... go anywhere, without disrupting the existing world.

[@mariusvanc]

At some point Blizzard added lots of guard spawns (guard spam?) in order to protect a bit from locations being perma-camped by opposing factions.

[@KIM-JONG-UN-84]

But they gave Asmoncancer a key immediately 😂👌

[@tesladrew2608]

Free advertising

[@KIM-JONG-UN-84]

Yup 😂

[@jameshalbirt5807]

I’m fine with streamers getting in first, many of them are the reason we are getting classic.

[@KIM-JONG-UN-84]

I think its the forums mostly they have known we wanted it for years. I think with blizzard losing so many subscribers its a attempt to revitalise the game and keep the money coming in

[@R3ggz]

rezoukas1 to be honest he has been entertaining, I’ve enjoyed his streams

[@endofexistence2149]

The hitbox thing is correct that's why a lot of ppl played females because they had a smaller hitbox. I played a feral druid and my attack box in catform was my hind legs so in order to attack i had to make sure my head was through my enemy just to land special and auto attacks. The only time I didn't have to worry about that was when fighting tauren who had the largest hit box in the game. Vanilla wow hitboxes were all off due to the sizes of each race and gender played.

[@megadestroyer454]

Was gonna play classic but I've been having to much fun on kronos wow.

[@emarskineel]

Gonna be a ghost town dawg

[@Daisieheart]

i was not invited to the beta but did do some stress testing and first minute into the game i found a bug with hunters so obviously things are being missed and casual players can help with this. MMORPGs now are so casual so seeing how people still love the old WoW could finally be what devs need to realize that we WANT to DO THINGS and not play an idle game as an mmo, i love idle games but not as mmos.

[@kalena7126]

Finally, a streamer publicly admits the fact that their streams hinder the actual testing that can/should be done. Thanks for this admission Tips, I feel validated!

[@Nerobyrne]

great to hear all the quests work, that was the biggest reason for me not getting too serious with private servers.

[@Scybes]

Getting ganked by your favourite youtuber sure was a fun experience

[@Ninjphoenix6932]

yeah sure there are more youtuber than guild masters.

[@Fenix02222]

Gonna bring a new meaning to stream sniping

[@yellowyellowyellowyellow]

tips 49:40 the NEW thing to follow classic's footsteps was gonna be titan. that was what it was gonna be. Something MMO increased in every way without abandoning the 2d to 3d upgrade that diablo 2 to wow felt like. The overwatch universe's futuristic + charming vividness and every possible upgrade you could think of into the magic and mystery that warcraft showed to us when it dropped... all the fun we could have had building our characters, trades, and team/clan, exploring a massive universe scale, the bosses, the epic vehicles and equipment, all this amazing escapism we will never get to have now because titan died before it could be born.