Impossible Plastic Part | TITANS of CNC Vlog #52

[@21368xray]

Great job! This is an every day reality on the semiconductor industry. Ridiculous tolerances in tough, expensive engineered plastics. Keep it up!

[@torbjornkrondahl8116]

Hi Normally I get plastic that is relaxed and white now tension built into to it or a very small amount . But one way to get a better result is to try to center the part in the stock an remove the same amount of stock all a round the part to even out the stress and in combination white relaxed stock it's perfect . Relaxed plastic is little more expensive but more economical in the long run. You can get nearly all types of plastic relax , it's a heat treatment of several hours . A tip from Sweden

[@paulmilligan1808]

Tor- I was watching this and thinking the same thing I know that in 360 brass you can put it in a home oven at 500 degrees for a hour and that greatly improves the quality of the material, in theory it should be possible to do the same with black delrin or acetal but I am sure that the temp would be different have you ever tried to stress relive acetal or delrin and do you know what the temp and time are, also I know that there is compression molded delrin that is much more stable than standard extruded delrin have you ever dealt with that before....

[@JSomerled]

That’s usually fine.For production work I want the material vendor responsible for how the plastic responds so I’m not chasing a process that may or may not be repeatable

[@rob7439]

We machine a lot of plastic medical components where I work and a technique we use is to release and resnug the vise before a finish pass to potentially allow the stock to spring out, Ive been begging them to heat treat to no avail.

[@jerryherrin6470]

We started doing this for a plastic part for the navy at our shop. We'd actually rough the part to around .05", toss it in the oven at a low temp (about 150f or so, depends on the plastic), take it out and let it relax over night then finish it on the lathes/mills. Everything held pretty well after that.

[@MrBstnredsoxfan34]

Really wish I could get people at my job to understand this, we are the company that this would be an impossible part, just last week we couldn’t hold +/- 0.005” thickness over an 18.0” long part because they don’t understand where the stress comes from

[@NSResponder]

In woodworking, we'll often rough cut parts, let them sit for a couple of days, and then cut them to final dimensions.

[@richie50]

Wow that was a super smart way to manufacture that part. Definitely learned something from this video. Stuart did a great job explaining. Thanks !

[@helicopterjohns]

Hi Stewart, These CNC machines will cut almost anything. The true art is determining how the part will be held during the machining process. i.e. fixtures. Many thanks for sharing some of your secrets. You are lucky working with some really smart individuals that are able and willing to share their knowledge. John

[@billcummins9579]

I have been doing this for 40 plus years and it's all about the process and fixtures. It's also knowing which parts you can make money on and which ones you can't. Just because you can make it doesn't mean you will make money making it. Good video, I have machined alot of plastics fixed alot of injection molded parts for customers who purchesed the parts overseas.

[@vromerobertoline]

3-2-1 locating principle + your hints about letting the material relax before final pass = boom! (Success). Thank you.

[@zajtoja]

Could you please elaborate on the 3-2-1 principle or direct me somewhere with more info (link pls) ? I learned about machining in my native language, not familiar with some technical English phrasing.

[@vromerobertoline]

@@zajtoja Sure... it is the basic theory used to locate and hold a part. You may want to check the society of manufacturing engineers video as a starting point: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKeqe6Kiqsp8mLc

[@zajtoja]

@@vromerobertoline Thank you

[@Kev20392]

Been machining super tight tolerances on beryllium parts for 20 years, much tighter than you mentioned in this video. The key is to fixture flat surfaces against flat surfaces. Using these methods would never work with the tight tolerances we deal with. Machine a flat datum then use that surface to locate against for the entire machining process and your parts will be great every time. Yes multiple operations would be needed and sometimes isn't great for high production runs but that's the nature of the beast.

[@brandons9138]

After sitting in a free state for six months it won't be flat, parallel, or perpendicular anymore. The relaxing they are doing during the machining process only helps remove the machining stress. There are still internal stresses that will come into play after the part sits for longer. We are dealing with the exact same thing at my shop right with parts in inventory shrinking over time due to the aggressive threads we have to cut in the part. The best way would be to rough the parts put them in an annealing oven and get the plastic really relaxed, the finish machine the parts. At my last shop we had very large parts (4.5 inches in diameter and some over 14 inches long with thin walls) made out of Delrin that we had to rough leaving .100 thou in all dimensions. We the would anneal them then finish them. The customer reported that after doing all this the parts no longer shrank after they put them though cycles in an autoclave. It was not a fast process, but it made parts that were more stable over time.

[@gunmetalbullets]

How do you anneal Delrin? What temperature and for how long?

[@brandons9138]

@@gunmetalbullets Man that was along time ago. I know the final temperature was 450deg. The total soak time at that temp was 1 hour per 1 inch of thickness. There was a 5 hour ramp up in temp, soak time,and then another 5 hour ramp down. We had a very precise programmable over that we did it in.

[@carlitoway9120]

New way New technique 1000 ways to make a part And this is one ☝️ of them Great 👍 fixtures 💥bam

[@jasonhymiller2026]

Big fan. I've been watching your videos for years. Love and respect what you're doing for our trade. Ever think of a shootout? Give me your best and we'll entertain. Thank you again for all of you're help to the up and coming machinists!

[@JacobBennett45]

Love watching these videos. You never stop learning in the trade

[@tubalcain1]

Looks like black delrin... During my days in the plastics distribution business black delrin was my top selling material! Machines very nice!!

[@artmckay6704]

Impressive and veeery clever! Love you guys! Genius at work 24/7! Brilliant work gentlemen!

[@quadmachine8434]

Love the dovetail method to hold that part!, yes you have to relieve the stress to maintain flatness, parallelism, great tip

[@phil.tsao.]

Really like these videos where you show an example part and talk about how it's machined and fixtured!

[@philhawtin5269]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to make this video. Ill take this trick with me in the future. Much Appreciated.

[@TITANSofCNC]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jgom4674]

Thank very much for all your videos and mostly your time and knowledge. Thank you

[@acstaff93]

Yoo titan I'm a young CNC Machinist from ENGLAND work on the XYZ vmc mill I love your vlog you guys have got it on lock love your work its mad skills !!! Would love to come work for you guys in the U.S.A !

[@10minutetuesday26]

Entertaining and educational! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience

[@superdavepumpkinpatch5205]

Great job Stuart that was perfect 👊

[@JDProductions0401]

You guys are BOSS!!!! Love the video you guys rock!

[@scottaero]

material handling throughout the process is critical, this equates to the highest level of success

[@gregoryc3988]

Your ONE of The Best!

[@kestergascoyne6924]

Love it. Thank you for the info. Great to see your people!

[@ryanvu3683]

awesome video. thank you for sharing your knowledge.

[@Dredgen-Yor]

That's what's up Titan. Great video.

[@Ubicuse]

Gr8 video as always. My idea for this kind of a part: clamp it with bigger amount of stock and machine it higher above vice. Leaving more stock unmachined aboe vice. Plastic will be deformed up until only some amount but you machine relaxed part. and then on the same setup you cut it off with carbide circular saw. and all the specs should be in place. It works for me most of the time, and keeping parallelity of 0,02mm is no problem. And also this way with 5 axis You can machine whole part in one setup :) with no additional fixtures :)

[@OGbqze]

That's awesome!!! I'm gonna have to do that one of these days. Thanks for the tip!!!!

[@TITANSofCNC]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@lsmullin62]

Great job guys

[@keiths8700]

Yes, approach, approach, approach. Cannot be said enough.

[@Bawbag0110]

Love stuff like this...my biggest pet peeve use to be parts that were over engineered, we had a part before that the customer wanted the hole diameter to be 12.02-12.04mm and they sent us the part that went into the hole and it was 11.85mm, we could easily have just put a 12mm hole through and it would have been fine but you do what the customer wants

[@johnl5177]

Make a phone call. To let the customer no but if they insist charge for the quality they insist

[@Bawbag0110]

@@johnl5177 We did that, they insisted that's the size they wanted

[@iPACKgoldDOTS]

Love those mittee bite clamps, used to use them allot at my old shop. Those expansion mandrel style ones are awesome for keeping concentricity during multi op parts

[@Kloetzchenkuenstler]

if you have ever milled copper with critical dimensions this is 101 knowledge otherwise you will never be able to manufacture perfect parts, Great video

[@learningeveryday5198]

copper is one of the hardest materials especially with tight flatnss tolerances call out its just a nightmare

[@DUCKS2525]

Love your videos! Love what you are doing!!!

[@jerryherrin6470]

I've only ever worked with black delrin on a swiss machine before, so not much in the way of fixturing ;) Had some pretty tight tolerances though, +/- .0002, etc. Ran a few parts after my setup at nominal, came back in the next morning and it was undersized. Moved about a total of .0005 overnight. So I ran the rest of the job at +.0003 above tolerance and they all came back fine.

[@davidbaleta5370]

Titan you rock dude !!!!

[@goldenmath4091]

Normally, when you have a flatness tolerance, you need to mill both faces, or it will still creep when milled, m/c first face, then, dovetail, then all 1st side Seen it loads if times.. Also we used to use a torque wrench on the vice for tight batch work:)

[@mcgr3g]

Awesome job!

[@colinbagshaw1796]

Are you doing the relax clamping out on a pallet incycle with another or are you prog hold and in machine adjusting the clamp

[@nf794]

Im from Germany and we always maschine plastic, if we would have that part it would be roughed out and than go into our in house heat treatment to relief all the stress. With this technique its possible to machine big tubes with a length of 2 foot and a wall thickness of 0,2 inches!! Those tolerances are quiet tight tho we usually have like plus Minus 0,009 inches.

[@MasterCraftFishing51]

A way to clamp parts with little stress and reduce having to clamp and re clamp on your soft jaw set-up is . Machine your hard stop soft jaw as required. Then for your movable jaw mill holes in as many places as you would like down the length. This is to insert springs using another piece of stock mill holes to accept the springs. This is now your holding system for consistency use a block you will clamp the vise on inside the vise. The tension of the springs will hold your part at the same pressure each and every time. If your holding area is thin you will have to use some guide pins to keep the spring jaw from rolling off center.

[@jamescoen2598]

hes good at leading you trough step by step

[@spivzit8754]

So simple but so amazing thank you!!!

[@pwest3732]

Titan, will you show us more examples of fixturing? Especially for small parts, sugar cube size and smaller. I work in the microwave industry and always searching for different ways to fixture and secure material for Machining.

[@123kkambiz]

The fixture idea by itself is an engineering innovation for holding the part. real genius idea. BOOM

[@AlohaMilton]

I tried to machine a miniature engine in plastic, wish I had seen this video first, got the project done in metal I couldn't cut the plastic without it warping as described. The relaxed material method makes sense once one has tried to cut plastic parts with tight tolerances. All about the fittings and fixtures to support the part, I was just trying to clamp them down however I could and not aware of the materials tension and thermal issues until they showed themselves.

[@ilkerkaripcin4608]

Awesome! Having the same problem with the plastic parts.

[@dontask8979]

Dovetail vise jaws was one of the 2 projects we did in the 1st quarter of training.

[@fredgarrity1028]

I can drop this part in 1operation flat to drawing using similar set I use claw jaws and then using a slitting saw run a round path and make a break diameter. The saw maintains flatness that's how its designed to work. Pretty part guys and great job I dont mean to dismiss your success just offer another time saving method I use. Plus I'm sick of people looking at me like I'm crazy until they see it work.

[@fredgarrity1028]

Sorry I meant one less operation looks like I side holes involved.

[@michaelkowalski3745]

Did you mill the plastic in the haas? Is that ok, I thought it gets super dirty and not good for the machine based on what I read around...hrm. Everywhere I searched people say metal only!

[@TITANSofCNC]

Plastic machines great in Haas and other machines... no issues

[@frankcruz1751]

Very good technique thank you guys

[@matthew6318]

Hi from UK just wondering what software you use?

[@sternrose]

Aren't you stressing the part when you reclamp it even though it's just tightened a little bit by the dovetail that is pulling the part down? how would you know if the part isn't stressed after reclamping it? Are you using some kind of methods to check how the part moved as you untightened it then retightened it? Would love to hear some insights from you guys. I like the Idea with the fixture though.

[@jbbudish]

Good stuff, simple things like relaxing the part

[@thomasmedlin2881]

Unbelievable, no other shop could make this part?

[@coreylomeli1667]

You guys are straight up the best would love to be in your presence and learn from you guys

[@woodwindfixer]

I am a student machinist with no production experience. I often wonder what such a job requires in time from square 1. Assume after the initial plan study and head scratching, how long does it take to make the various fixtures and then to machine a delicate part like this?

[@ryleegill1013]

Hey Titan, is it possible to show some high speed recipies for cutting cast iron? I worked at a shop that lightened big block chevy engine blocks and it took us 5 days to do it in a rottler f69a. Would coolant help this at all? And what cutters could be used in say a 5 axis Mill to reduce setups and speed the process?

[@hotfuzz1913]

Very cool nice work guy's

[@TITANSofCNC]

Thanks

[@MegaLifeChanging]

When using mitey bites, when you clamp part, then rough it and then release it, it will have left clamp marks in plastic. Then when you try to re-clamp it for finishing, it will try to get in the same clamping groove as when it was roughed

[@jasona6773]

Hey. I work at a shop that builds natural gas reciprocating compressor parts. How you would you guys efficiently go about milling ported compressor valves. The part looks simple but some of the ports are tapered to 125" wide and .8" deep and i find it can take quite a while using our current methods

[@jasona6773]

@@johnveix no we dont. We do have hyundai wia L2600SY lathe but no 5 axis mill

[@wheelieking71]

The trick with that part is not the process. That was a very good explanation, even though you didn't touch on how you hold it to get the true position of the through hole feature. The trick is knowing all that when the print lands on your desk, and quoting, taking that process in to consideration when quoting. So, you don't loose your shorts on the job!

[@leekursener575]

Im pretty shure the through hole gets machined in the first setup on the 5axis

[@TITANSofCNC]

Correct with the 4th Axis, same time

[@Just_Jesus_ef]

Thanks for another good video

[@senorimotor]

Stewart is the man!

[@paullebrun8440]

Do you have a maximum material condition on the true position?

[@handford85]

Hi, just wondering how long and how many trail runs this idea would of taken to come up with? I’m a programmer with very little experience, my company work one off parts but as most companies do, they needed it yesterday so time is massively important. Is this experienced veterans putting there heads together or trail an error?

[@shrekiic6630]

Titan I was wondering something. With your knowledge of CNC machines ever thought of designing and building your own? Maybe something that us hobbyist can afford and that is a true cnc machine.

[@TITANSofCNC]

Wish I had time:-) Got a Million ideas... but focusing on education

[@shrekiic6630]

I can understand that. Thank you for taking the time to replying to my message. I only asked because like I said im a hobbylist into build R/c cars/truck. and well my next adventure is I want to build a complete 1:4 scale semi truck. I am trying to find a machine shop that can make the 1:4 scale diesel engine I'm designing. The closest cnc machine I can get my hands on that can only handle this job is a Pocket NC 3+2 cnc mill. But it cant handle nothing bigger then 4" and im needing something to do about 16". I am sure this is something your shop can handle but where I live there aren't any machines shops that can.

[@alexberger3768]

How about a video on boring out jaws for lets say 11+ inches raw stock on an 8 inch chuck machine?

[@showkathossain1088]

Thank you boss.

[@kozaki12]

Not bad. In Poland we also made some thight tolerance stuff;)

[@wickedwieselmachine2790]

Would this part have been able to be 3-D printed

[@nf794]

Form wise yes, tolarance and finish wise no

[@Hallslys]

Yeah, probably resin printed no problem, not FDM printed because of tolerances, but this looks like delrin plastic (i might be wrong). And there is no resin that will be as strong as Delrin.

[@jeremiahprine9696]

I have a suggestion that my supervisor and myself would like to see and to know. Inserts for insert mills. How to read and under stand the code for inserts ie: ADTK1505 and such. Also what math formula used to determine speeds and feeds for insert milling. I’m a recent graduate with a degree in machining, however my professors never covered insert milling. My boss and I have a 5/8 insert mill and using the standard speeds and feed formulas for standard endmills isn’t producing a faster and efficient time on parts for maximum material removal. Love your videos and we’ve learned a lot so far. Thanks!

[@kisspeteristvan]

visit manufacturers page for cutting data , also in the end parameters must be adjusted according to machine power , tool stickout , and rigidity .

[@jeremiahprine9696]

Well I’m embarrassed to say this but our tool came from a second hand source and is generic. But looking at a lot of the tooling manufacturing websites, it’s like reading ancient Egyptian text.

[@kisspeteristvan]

@@jeremiahprine9696 If by generic you mean no serial , no brand name , then it's probably some chineesium . For your tool , try Ap 0.15-0.2 , Ae 0.05-0.15 , feed 40ipm , 3200rpm . Put feed and speed to 50% for the first pass , and good luck . (Still it's better to visit some tool maker's site , to get a general idea about feeds&speeds , width of cut and depth of cut)

[@kisspeteristvan]

@@jeremiahprine9696 However , If that insert is legit , should be able to handle 700sfm , depth of cut 0.4 , and width of cut 80% of the tool diameter , all day every day . but DON'T try that

[@jeremiahprine9696]

@@kisspeteristvan I am grateful for the advice. My shop only machines aluminum and delrin. My supervisor knows very little about machining and I know little about CADs, however I can read the code in the program and I know how to alter the programs to increase cycle time and efficacy. So we have the inserts for aluminum but they came from Germany and no tooling information for speeds and feeds or depth per pass. I'm sure there are more experienced CNC Machinist rolling eyes right now, but at least I am asking and this helps cement job security.

[@mikenicee]

Ha. That was me :)

[@TITANSofCNC]

Thanks... Now that’s a tiny dove tail :-)

[@kernhermle5367]

Is this podcast on Rumble?

[@ssp8811]

Titans, how to buy the mitee bite fixture? And how much the price? I’m from Malaysia. Thanks in advance

[@vivekpawar1854]

Hey how u keep your workstation standardized

[@dominick253]

Is that for a red dot sight?

[@johanndempsey7552]

Today ibe learned something knew I never thought maching such parts,sqauring the part up i can never perfect too such percision as I want it to be.

[@williamromine6277]

can you talk about work holding very large heavy parts that need to be hit ob all sides with two setups Thanks Sam

[@chris24hdez]

Do a video on processing failures the right way.

[@ramazancolak3105]

We clamp aluminum bloks of 50kg with 5NM to rough it and 2 NM to finish... It feels scary in the beginning on the 5 axxis but it works perfectly.

[@MaxSaldanaCNC]

Titan, I agree with this video, just forgot to show the program and machine running this part.

[@xenonram]

Why does this channel have so many, "I'm from India, help me learn CNC," comments? I've never seen smoother machining channel with so many comments from Indians. Usually they're comments that make unreasonable requests too.

[@bigbob1699]

All machining imparts stress , all plastic will move after machining .I use to machine parts two or three times to hold tolerances . Plastics can vary from batch to batch also.

[@christianbay7614]

Love the video, and it is pretty cool as a challenge, but why would you not 3D print a part like this on something like a Carbon? - that seams to be both quicker and easier.

[@jeremiahnichols8550]

I work in 3D printing and it’s not that simple. There is a lot of stress inherent in printed parts. That and you will never hold tolerances that are right with printing. Printing is also more expensive than CNC due to secondary operations that need to be done. You can get a base pretty simple but would still need to be machined.

[@1oldkiter]

We are a small tool manufacturer and have been looking fro over a year for a machinist that can do his own setup. We are spending more doing our own work then if we sent it out. GT TOOLS

[@CathyInBlue]

It's not really getting rid of the internal stresses, it just uses those internal stresses to your advantage. My problem with this would be that if the part, and I have utterly no idea what the application of this part is, gets heated and relaxes, those stresses that were working for you are now gone, meaning the part will warp after it's installed in the application. Wouldn't a better way to do it be to machine to within, say 10 1/1000th, and then anneal it to release any remaining stresses and then do all of the finish machining with the same light clamping pressure? The end result would be the same, but instead of using the internal stresses, you eliminated them.

[@mikemcmillan2619]

I was actually thinking the same thing. Annealing after rough cut, and maybe again after final if needed. All of that could be done in the fixture or not. We mold parts that require annealing often, especially medical and aerospace parts. Could allow you to speed up operations considerably, depending on quantity of course. Curios, you mean 0.010" right? Good comment.

[@JSomerled]

Awesome..

[@KainamHD]

Hey Titan. Noticed the reverse flag on your sleeve indicating that you were in combat. Where were you deployed?

[@TITANSofCNC]

No, but have great appreciation for all who serve. That is simply the Flag standard for any flag that’s on the right shoulder. It must be flipped because the stars always march forward.

[@MegaLifeChanging]

What type of plastic? UHMW?

[@TITANSofCNC]

Delrin

[@BMRStudio]

Make something for Pewdiepie :) he is in a huge fight! Kids like CNC!

[@crisp4085]

this video is a boom video

[@85CEKR]

When I watch a video like this I really wonder what kind of price you are charging for these and what is the quantity. Is that something your willing to tell us?

[@Top10-q4j6n]

Its America, so just think of big numbers.

[@abglogas]

I was wondering the same thing. I'm all about teaching and promoting machining, but there's no way I would have time to design, program and machine a special vice jaw or fixture at the shop I work at.

[@nine0ten771]

Hey I made those coherrnet parts 15 years ago.

[@SoWe1]

why not tell us the tolerances? I did wonder already what you consider to be hard - and again, how do you check your work, you have never shown that?

[@PatrickJoergensen]

They have a guy working in a seperate room Who inspects with micrometers, laser-measuring tools and what else you can think of :)

[@SoWe1]

@@PatrickJoergensen personally operating a Zeiss measuring machine, so I'm interested in the details, would enjoy a video about it. They seem to have kinda small parts only so I guess you don't need a coordinate measuring machine.

[@jimazmachining6313]

@@SoWe1 They have a CMM.

[@TITANSofCNC]

Definitely have a CMM

[@SoWe1]

@@TITANSofCNC cool :) and what were the tolerances for this part, may we know?

[@junkdubious]

What is it? Delrin?

[@WIPEYOURLENZ]

Brand name for a composite material made of resin.

[@zarin_othman]

Is that delrin ?

[@TITANSofCNC]

Yes

[@johy5003]

Can take more video above teach the process or demo Nice