Greg Gagne - Why AWA Superclash Failed

[@TitleMatchWrestling]

Stream the Full Shoot Interview ➡kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIaUpKavp8tglaM ➡titlematchnetwork.com/title/greg-gagne-shoot-interview/

[@toddhawk9921]

What he says from 3:10-3:30 is true. Top draws in one area don’t necessarily translate into fan interest in another area.

[@meekrob]

Sure but given time and exposure Lawler could get over anywhere.

[@mox19380]

yep. which they should've known from the failure of superclash 2 in san fran. at least superclash 3 was in their territory but especially by '88 with WCW and WWF miles away from AWA, superclash 3 was unlikely to draw enough eyes

[@dochaliday69]

@@meekrob Maybe but your Champion needs to be a draw BEFORE he is given a belt, not developed while he had it

[@coachjonfitness]

I saw Bruce Pritchard talk about that. He said since Lawler had been on Letterman and feuded with Andy Kaufman, they thought that MIGHT have some draw or appeal. It didn't.

[@chrishagins3309]

I think Rick Rude would have been a good choice for AWA champ. He was from Minnesota, had a great image etc.

[@mox19380]

yea. lucky for rude he was in bigger and better promotions at the time

[@markedly1013]

Agree.

[@JGD185]

"So I called Bischoff and said you gotta sign this kid Scotty Flamingo but instead we're gonna call him Raven and make him sit in the corner of the ring. And when he talks have him say What About Raven?! And the rest is history." -Greg Gagne

[@robalt1983]

"So I called Vince Jr and said you gotta sign this kid Chris Harris but instead we're gonna call him Braden Walker and give him the greatest catchphrase of all time: I'm Braden Walker and I'm gonna knock your brains out! I also suggested the kid do a bad "Knock knock" joke. Sold arenas out everywhere. Vince never thanked me."-Greg Gagne

[@TheNYJets15]

@@robalt1983 😂😂

[@harlowethrombey7665]

“So after I wrote the Wrestlerock Rumble song and directed the video, and that was a huge hit-I called Aerosmith and Run DMC and said, You guys should team up and record ‘Walk This Way’ together. No one ever thanked me for it.” Greg Gagne

[@MovieEnvy]

I wish he’d talked more about how he got booed out of the building at Superclash when he won a title by count out.

[@Kayfabe74]

He cut a nice heel promo on the Chicago Bears tho

[@mattlong81]

The AWA and World Class were both dead brands in 1988...they wanted to breathe life into their promotions with this crossover supercard. It was a nice try, but unfortunately it would have yielded better results in 1986, when both promotions began their downward trajectory.

[@dreampopwavestudiob7282]

AWA had more exposure in 88. I remember seeing them growing up. Lame tv production, but it was still wrestling. Now, 1988 for Memphis was ok I am a fan of Gilberts. The AWA belt still held more prestige than the midsouth belt plain and simple. How much money could you make in wrestling in 1988 with all the other small regionals either dead or on death's door? the only promotions left were CWA, Portland, WCCW, and AWA. Only AWA was the major promotion. People can do whatever they want Memphis was never on AWA level never! I like Memphis wrestling too many wrestlers not enough pay or territory. Jerry Jarrett was honest and made a marketing truth about wanting commercial time with the markets in Texas. AWA got trick by two hillbillies that proved the old saying of getting screwed by Memphis lol

[@TMC1982Part2]

@@dreampopwavestudiob7282 Wasn't the AWA on ESPN at that point? So what exactly went wrong when they were presumably getting the biggest TV exposure that they would ever get otherwise.

[@johnpenguinthe3rd13]

AWA wasn't a dead brand during 1988 since they were on ESPN (which was and still is a major cable network). However, they were declining significantly to the point where ESPN started moving their time slot around almost every other week to the point where you had to be a detective at times to figure out what time slot AWA was airing that week. It's really the end of 1989 or so (I think around October 1989) with that AWA Team Challenge stuff when things get to the point of no return (that stuff rivals WCW 2000 in terms of how bad things got). But at least they were still on ESPN. When they lost the ESPN deal during 1990 (resulting in them no longer being on TV), that's when it really became a dead brand and they quickly died after that.

[@TitleMatchWrestling]

Full Card for AWA Superclash 3 - Dec 13, 1988 from Chicago 1. Chavo Guerrero, Mando Guerrero and Hector Guerrero vs Cactus Jack and The Rock 'n' Roll RPMs (Mike Davis and Tommy Lane) 2 Eric Embry vs Jeff Jarrett (c) - WCWA World Light Heavyweight Championship 3. Jimmy Valiant vs Wayne Bloom 4. Iceman King Parsons (c) vs Brickhouse Brown - WCWA Texas Heavyweight Championship 5. Wendi Richter (c) and The Top Guns (Ricky Rice and Derrick Dukes) vs Badd Company (Paul Diamond and Pat Tanaka) and Madusa Miceli with Diamond Dallas Page - Mixed tag for the AWA World Women's and AWA World Tag Team Championships 6. Greg Gagne vs Ron Garvin - For the vacant AWA International Television Championship 7. The Syrian Terrorist vs Bambi vs Peggy Lee Leather vs Laurie Lynn vs Brandi Mae vs Malibu vs Nina vs Pocohantas vs Luna Vachon - Street Fight Lingerie Battle Royal 8. Sgt. Slaughter vs Colonel DeBeers (with Diamond Dallas Page) - Boot Camp match 9. The Samoan Swat Team (Samu and Fatu) with Buddy Roberts (c) vs Michael Hayes and Steve Cox - WCWA World Tag Team Championship 10. Wahoo McDaniel vs Manny Fernandez - Indian Strap match 11. Jerry Lawler (AWA) vs Kerry Von Erich (WCWA) - Title Unification match for the AWA and WCWA World Heavyweight Championships 12. The Rock 'n' Roll Express (Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson) vs. Stud Stable (Robert Fuller and Jimmy Golden) with Miss Sylvia ➡Stream 100s of Rare Shoot Interviews now on TitleMatchNetwork.com

[@quincee3376]

Thanks.

[@suspiria1966]

I'll be honest. I would watch that any day of the week

[@dickborg452]

I always liked superclash 3

[@theCinemaHaus]

I remember spending a week and a half trying to convince my dad to buy the Superclash III PPV. He finally relented and enjoyed it, even though he was a Mid-South, NWA fan. He didn't like any wrestling from north of the Mason-Dixon. It helped having a lot of WCCW, CWA, NWA guys involved.

[@danpoutsma1351]

They put the belt on Lawler in large part because the AWA had nobody left. If Greg became champion, there would've been a huge backlash, and I think the story was that the local promoters in all their markets threatened to quit if he was made champion. I thought that Lawler gave the title some added credibility when he had it by being a traveling champion that defended it in different promotions. Granted, the promoters that were still left were only working together out of necessity. But I always thought it was cool when he'd call out the WWF and NWA for having company champions and say he was the only real world champion because he'd wrestle anyone in any company.

[@danpoutsma1351]

I'm pretty sure Ronnie Garvin had already done some TV matches for the WWF before working the match at SuperClash and the countout finish was devised because they needed to get the belt off of him, but Vince didn't want him doing a clean job on his way out the door. Greg says he thought Garvin was still working for Barnett up to that point, but Jim Barnett got kicked out of Georgia around the end of 1982 for supposedly tapping into the company coffers to fund his own personal lifestyle. He went to work for Vince in 1983 and then Crockett in 1987 after Vince fired him. Ron continued to work the Georgia territory until Crockett took it over in 1985 and closed it down, and then stayed on with Crockett until 1988. So Greg either no has no idea what he's talking about or is just full of it.

[@meekrob]

​@@danpoutsma1351 I'm gonna go with the latter.

[@Manetho72]

I grew up in Minnesota and lived in Memphis for 15 years as a young adult. I didn't know who Lawler was until I moved to Memphis in the early 2000s. Nothing against Lawler, but that's how it was back then.

[@wrericdog]

Greg is telling the truth here!

[@dave-rf2vn]

Its never his pops fault . Awa had all the talent and dropped the ball

[@markedly1013]

Never accepts any responsibility.

[@MrSmitty1074]

Verne didn't put the belt on Hogan. smh

[@meekrob]

​@@MrSmitty1074 And he was absolutely right because Hogan's loyalty at the time was to New Japan. When Verne put the belt on Hansen it was the exact same problem (only with All Japan).

[@ThatRetroGeek86]

​@@meekrob Verne tried to strong-arm Hulk from what I've seen. He wanted almost 100% of Hulk's Japan pay in exchange for making him champ and Hulk said no but offered a 50/50 split. Verne said no and next thing you know, Vince is talking to Hulk.

[@briannettles669]

The decline of the AWA was unfortunate. They failed to move along with the times. The 1980s meant the age of cable television, pay-per-views, and a modern presentation. The AWA still presented a product for the 1950s audience, which would not sell in the 1980s and 1990s. If only the AWA could have made Hulk Hogan the world champion in the early 1980s and Verne Gagne retired from booking and was replaced with somebody younger with expertise in the modern presentation of wrestling, cable television, and pay-per-views, the AWA may have had success well into the 1990s and beyond.

[@lewiske]

Well put. McMahon’s nationwide strategy never would’ve gotten over as it did without Hogan. Meanwhile a more astute booker would've put the AWA Hogan over nationally as the top banana in the business. The AWA could’ve flourished with Hogan and met the WWF head on. Imagine them going national on their own. What could have been.

[@mox19380]

@@lewiske except they wouldn't have gone much further with hogan because verne was NOT going to put the AWA title on a "body builder". so they were never going to go further than the nick bockwinkels, larry Z's, etc would take them...which was a regionally territory

[@larrygonzales5245]

I love Lawler to death, but he was a regional star who only got over in his area. Unless you had an awesome talent to work with him, he did no business outside of Memphis. Now Bill Dundee was a guy who for some reason could be over and work any territory. He drew in Memphis, the Carolinas, even Portland.

[@larryjones8564]

The booking of SUPER CLASH III was all wrong. I can understand Verne not wanting to have the title pitted with a lost, since he was promoting the show. But there are times when you have to do what's RIGHT for business. Wrestling is and always will be getting the BIG PAYOFF. Kerry Von Erich should have pinned Lawler and became the Unified Champion.... A few months later in a CWA Memphis territory, Jerry Lawler wins the titles from Kerry....setting up a rematch in Dallas' WCCW territory with Kerry winning the belts back from Jerry Lawler....thus we get a big payoff... SUPER CLASH IV a return match for the Unified Championships. This would have been Verne's big payoff. Both men spent a whole year exchanging the titles. By now, he would've seen between the two to carry the titles. In the end, it didn't matter. AWA, CWA, WCCW were all but dead...

[@SmilingSynic]

Greg tells more tall tales than a bar room brawler, but I believe him about Lawler. As a worker, Lawler was NOT over outside of Memphis, and his physique was too pudgy for me at least to take him seriously in the body conscious 80's. Lawler only got over as a talker outside of the Tennessee territory.

[@puertorico4280]

Gagne forgot to mention a year before Lawler winning the belt he was one half of the AWA tag team champion with Dundee

[@contentm3893]

Wrong. Lawler put on great matches with all of the great and was a great in ring worker. He was also part owner of the CWA / USWA so he had no incentive to wrestling outside his area.

[@shaund.2273]

If Verne had put the world title belt on the Trooper, the AWA would still be going strong.

[@worldclassact1389]

No Jake "the milkman" milliman would have been better choice. And awa would be seen now on the USA network😮😅😅😅

[@Goawaykidyoubotherme]

Let me guess before I even watch.: It wasn't his dad's fault. Other people screwed pops

[@ChiraqMac187]

😂✌🏽😁

[@twomorningsbackfromyesterd1240]

I watched this just to see who he'd blame for this. No accountability at all.

[@markedly1013]

You said it.

[@arkansasgreg]

Yep. What a mark.

[@acgarner3107]

Most AWA guys who left the AWA blame Verne for stiffing on pay

[@animalmother1582]

I think AWA was at its peak in syndication on ESPN in the late 80s. Lot of great talent came out of there. Kurt Henning, The Midnight Rockers, Scott Hall. But, my favorite at the time was Larry Zybisko. He was legit good on the mic. When he came to WCW around the time Jake Roberts came, that should have been the big "outside company" invasion.

[@thomastherriault8632]

I was at Superclash 3, the place was halfway empty, the card was so bad that we cheered for the heels and yes I remember booing the heck out of Greg after his cheesy match with Garvin, that Pay per View pretty much ended the AWA as we knew it. 🤷

[@alexandermacdougall7873]

Another video said a whopping 1700 people attended.

[@mox19380]

haha...not half empty. 1400 showed up. uic pavilion held about 8500 people i think

[@suicidality2744]

​@@mox19380You're being too generous. The attendance was 1372.

[@karlepaul6632]

In regards to Lawler, he's 100% spot on. As great as Lawler was, he really didn't mean anything outside of Memphis. (And Adonis was vastly underrated)

[@RalphieMaysGhost]

Greg Gagne invented Wrestlemania. He gave Hulk his gimmick. He was the 4th man on the moon. Greg told me.

[@markedly1013]

I think he is still on the moon.

[@JeffreyWLaRue]

I was at Super Clash III in Chicago and saw Kerry von Erich wrestle Jerry "The King"Lawler and the match was called because Kerry was loosing too much Blood from the Forhead!!!!!

[@Filthy-sq5rm]

When God doesn't know what to do, he calls Greg.

[@n9wff]

All the other wrestling alliances were trying to band together but the talent wasn't quite there. Putting SC III in Chicago was a bad idea. It lost money. AWA tried to expand to the West Coast (hence many matches at the Cow Palace in SF) and the travel expenses could not cover all the wrestlers. Once Curt Hennig left for the WWF, AWA was ready to flatline.

[@JDawgHTX713]

Correction: the BIGGEST mistake Verne did was try to bully Hogan for his merchandise sales. Had he not done that & also let Hogan WIN the AWA title… WWF wouldn’t have been what it is.

[@patricksullivan2261]

I am reminded of these words of wisdom uttered by Jerry Jarrett when he tried to buy out the AWA. Verne was all for it, but insisted that Jarrett keep Greg Gagne as booker. To which Jarrett, quite correctly, responded "Verne he's your booker now and your territory is doing so poorly you're willing to sell it Why would I want that in my business?" Lawler never being over outside of Memphis excludes the vast majority of his WWF run where, even though he was mostly a commentator, once the fans got to know him they loved the King when he made in ring appearances.

[@harlowethrombey7665]

It failed because there was no Superclash Music Video.

[@bigtrex76]

Wow sounds like he actually told the truth

[@meekrob]

By accident, surely.

[@bigtrex76]

@@meekrob agree

[@doubles7533]

Really rare for him

[@BobFosterMedia]

I knew who all these guys were as an 8 year-old kid on the East Coast. So, crazy for me to think just how regionally segmented everything was. Pre-internet but wresting was on tv and PWI at every gas station. AWA figures were sold at local general stores. So, info wasn't accessible as it was now but it was out there if you were a fan.

[@jamesweikel2594]

😂 Verne never paid the visiting talent like he was supposed to. But hey Greg and his daddy never did anything wrong

[@mistermay7986]

Lawler was CWA & Kerry was World Class. Neither was AWA. But the ppv was an AWA LLC. Verne screwed everybody 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@dariushodges5328]

Yes

[@mrg8581]

Would have been better to hold Super Clash in Memphis or Dallas instead of Chicago.

[@mistermay7986]

@@mrg8581. Then Verne would have not been able to control the money

[@mrg8581]

@@mistermay7986 True. Though those cities probably sell out.

[@jerrysears7607]

Most of these guys talk crap about each other. Just a plain fact. Not this interview, but, its refreshing when you get an ex wrestler talk good about everyone. Refreshing 😮

[@TheNYJets15]

“I told my Dad to sign the Green Bastard from parts unknown and he laughed at me…4 weeks later McMahon started producing trailer park boys, that was that”

[@trueyankee4767]

So much hate in all the comments for severl of Greg's interviews. Because he was the boss's kid and got a push, or do people think he lies that much? He seems to believe everything he says at least.

[@meekrob]

Greg is a carny. Whether he believes his own bullshit is irrelevant. It's still bullshit.

[@alexandermacdougall7873]

Believing a lie doesn't make it true.

[@wallypalmer4704]

Adrian Adonis was great! Even when he got really overweight, he was light as a feather in the ring. Buddy Rose was that way too.

[@toma.4808]

It failed because it sucked. Gagne didnt pay anybody and those who were forunate to get anything didnt get the full amount. Times were changing and vince was closing in

[@PulverizerA]

He's right. When Lawler shoed up on TV one morning as the champ, I was like "Who's this fat hillbilly?". I wasn't buying that. It also makes sense that if you're co-promoting, you split the risk and have each promoter pay his talent out of their share of the profits. Like Verne would say " I want to pay all the talent out of my share of the profits. Give me all the risk, with no more reward." Pfft.

[@joeytrimble1558]

Roflmfao whose this fat hillbilly hahaha omg that broke me I'm laughing my ass off

[@jeffreyriley8742]

Wrestling hadn't hit as a national thing in terms of consciousness yet outside the WWF. It was just starting to. Now everyone knows who everyone else is but not back then.

[@dreampopwavestudiob7282]

@@jeffreyriley8742 By then it was only WCW and WWF. WCW brought out NWA, because the old geezer board was finished, washed up, racist has-beens, nutcases. The Crockets tried and I liked the Crockets JCP it was amazing. Memphis wasn't bad, just outside Memphis no took them seriously.

[@animalmother1582]

Did Greg ever actually lift any weights? He was like Super Jobber! :D

[@TheNYJets15]

So I told bischoff to turn hogan heel and he laughed at me, I got fired and 2 weeks later hogan is wearing all black…and that was that

[@speedgriffon2504]

You were giving advice to Bischoff?

[@jeffakin3095]

nothing was ever greg or verne's fault... WHO ELSE DID HE HAVE TO PUT THE TITLE ON???? CURT WAS LEAVING!!!! and greg's timeline is way off here-- usa was in 84; lawler took the title in 87 or 88

[@alexandermacdougall7873]

Because the AWA was already a dumpster fire by that point and nobody really cared.

[@ensabahnur7657]

Greg's 💯 on that Lawler was only big in his territory PERIOD! Nobody in their right mind would put ANY Title on him as he seemed to move around a lot not anytime to build a story around, etc! It was what it was to the point he continued calling himself King long after the King of the Ring thing & just seemed like he wanted a lot but for whatever reasons wasn't willing to earn it, I could be wrong!

[@quincee3376]

I agree.

[@norbertschnurrbart936]

Is that really true though? Lawler was on Letterman with Andy Kaufman in one of the most memorable moments in it's show's history. I'm not american nor was I alive at that time. But I'm sure that made people aware of Lawler, especially wrestling fans.

[@ensabahnur7657]

@@norbertschnurrbart936 Nope!

[@PulverizerA]

@@norbertschnurrbart936 I can say as a fan at the time, it's true. Kids (wrestling fans) didn't stay up to watch Late Night with Letterman, and when Lawler showed up on TV one morning with the belt, I thought "Who the hell is this fatso with the belt now?". Verne had trained us too well to accept a clown like that as champion. Verne may have looked like hammered dogshit when he was last champ too, but everyone in MN knew his background: Football and NCAA champ at the U of M, Olympian and a tireless promotor and sponsor of local athletes. You were able to overlook his "old bald man" looks and buy into the legitimate legendary status of the man's accomplishments. People loved the guy. Lawler had nothing like that to compensate for his shenanigans. I at least, wasn't buying it. Kind regards to you and yours.

[@norbertschnurrbart936]

@@PulverizerA Thanks for the insight. Much appreciated!

[@dazzle1933]

They should have had Kerry beat Lawler Von Erichs were national

[@TheNYJets15]

So I told my dad we have to run the garden and do a super event with celebrities and treat it as our Super Bowl…I told my dad we will call it Wrestlemania…Dad loved the idea, two weeks later McMahon is running adds for Wrestlemania, I said dad how could this be possible? He said well McMahon must have tapped the phones! Come to find out it was Mad Dog Vachon who told Vince…and that was that.

[@speedgriffon2504]

How did Mad Dog overhear a conversation betwixt you and your father?

[@jesusnodal8948]

The key thing is pay your talent all around!! When you screw your talent by not paying them that's a bad thing!! Vern Gagne knew better!!

[@McStarkiller666]

Biggest reason it failed was it was a boring show with only 2 decent matches but fucked up finishes riddled the show and made it a chore to watch

[@BuddyRose-kt1nu]

Verne didn't push me to the top is why it failed. Playboy Buddy Rose #1

[@curthennig9448]

At least Greg weighed 217 pounds.

[@BuddyRose-kt1nu]

@@curthennig9448 I drew though

[@curthennig9448]

@@BuddyRose-kt1nu You were the King of Portland.

[@BuddyRose-kt1nu]

@@curthennig9448 thanx, brother! You we're the only real "Mr Minnesota". And I'm from Minnesota saying that.

[@curthennig9448]

@@BuddyRose-kt1nu I've said it a thousand times: "Minnesota's greatest athlete!" We had some great matches wrestling for Don Owen back in the early 80s.

[@9952275]

If they wouldve put the belt on Hogan none of the talent would hvae followed him to the WWF. Talent like Heenan, Ventura , Petara Mean Gene, Shultz, They wnet under and thw WWf took over. How history would be diffenet. Also Adrian Adonis

[@meekrob]

If Hogan got the belt it would've been the same situation as Hansen, only a few years earlier. And everybody else still would have gone with Vince because of money and national exposure.

[@EdEhren-be6hr]

They basically copied the Luger-Flair Price for Freedom finish,when Luger had the torture rack and the match was stopped due to His bleeding,although Luger had a shaving cut and Kerry was bleeding like a pig. Although Lawler was a face at the time and I Iiked Curt Henning,I was happy that He put Lawler over and,in doing so,propelled Him to the national prominence He deserved. I loved Lawler as a heel in Texas.He mastered the psychology of His character and knew how to make the fans hate Him with a passion. Lawler keeping the belt because Verne had stiffed Him on His pay reminds Me of when Hansen ran over the belt and sent it back to Verne when Hansen opted to wrestle for Baba and Verne stripped Him. The AWA would fold shortly after this,wiith Larry Z,who had won the belt in a Battle Royal,as their last champion,while Fritz would do the same. BTW,Lawler and Kerry would meet again in Joel Goodhart's TWA,which ECW spun off from,with Kerry winning by DQ when Lawler threw fire while in the claw.

[@84sp84]

So Lawler wasn’t over, but I guess Otto Wanz was? Typical Greg BS.

[@TravisBrady-wn8fr]

I like the rank Ronnie Garvin wwf gimmick. He came to the ring with fresh poo on his head

[@battlestarmarc]

Awa was losing too much steam and talent by super clash 3.

[@hotboikool2311]

Classic

[@TravisBrady-wn8fr]

The random poop on your head match was OK.

[@dannyjohnson6323]

The more I hear him talk the less I believe him

[@Grisna_25-]

greg

[@contentm3893]

Greg has a weird take on history and what bad business decisions were made in the AWA. The AWA was garbage at this time and they had no talent to work with. Jarret didn't stiff his wrestlers. The story goes that your dad didn't pay Lawler. Von Erichs were known world wide and big in Japan also. What you and your Dad missed were having the two territories come together and go against Vince. The AWA could have had 40% of the wrestling map in the US.

[@swfcocs1]

"So I called Steven Spielberg and said you've got to make a film about a big fish that eats people" and that was his break in pictures

[@dandobrasz2555]

He is delusional

[@mahmud9973]

Hello

[@richmagro]

I think Gagne is the most boring human in wrestling

[@Ijustinsultedyou]

So Verne would not put the title on Hogan who would become the single most recognized pro wrestler ever and the catalyst for the business is today, but agreed to put it on a clown that thinks he’s a King that’s only over in Memphis and was lucky to land a color commentator position for the rest of his career. No wonder the AWA went belly up

[@jasonbarham5634]

Well according to Greg in an interview, the plan WAS to put the title on Hogan, but he jumped ship to the WWF. Hogan never cared about the business more than he cared about himself. He was greedy, selfish and backstabbing, all about him kinda guy

[@Ijustinsultedyou]

@@jasonbarham5634 See you must be young and listen to too many podcasts. Because I was around back when the AWA was the premier league to be in and Hogan did win the AWA title over Nick Bockwinkel and then Verne publicly humiliated Hogan by stripping it of him. And you want to talk about greedy? Again you listen to too many Greg Gagne interviews. The only difference between Greg Gagne and Bret Hart is, Greg is a more nicer version of being bitter and blaming everything on everyone else. Verne is the one that wanted every single percent of hogans merchandise and a percent of the money he was making in Japan. No wonder Hogan left and took a better deal. Even you would’ve done that.