Should we have more discussions about neck braces?

[@DevinHessOfficial]

Broke my neck this April at St Anthony sand dunes. Had to get a C5 and C6 fusion. Not only did I break my neck, I ecluded an artery. Which is just a massive blood clot in my neck, from C2 to C7. It’s still there. Now I’m prone to having strokes because of that eclusion for the rest of my life. Been told by multiple medical professionals that I’m lucky to even be alive, and that I was nearly quadriplegic. Was also told by my Doc that if I had been wearing a neck brace these injuries wouldn’t have occurred. Get a neck brace.

[@hiemerkids2]

Hope you’re doing well Dev

[@YairDeR]

Hope ur doing well

[@newman3059]

Praying for you buddy

[@pvclassic]

Devin, thank you for sharing...couldn't have been easy to put this out there. Thank you, Godspeed to you.

[@BARS113113]

Will buy one the day after tomorrow for sure Had an accident years ago, hit a car. After fast forward movement still sometimes have bad feelings in the neck Get well buddy

[@pvclassic]

I'm 56, been riding and racing dirt bikes and downhill mountain bikes for years, still at it today. Dirt bikes since I was 12. The neck brace IMHO is one of the most important pieces of equipment ever developed for our sport. If you train with a brace you'll find a way to work with it. I personally wear the Leatt 5.5 GPX. This brace spreads the rear load over my muscles and has a built in break away to avoid spinal injury. There's a 2.5 inch gap between my MTB downhill helmet and the brace and a 2.0 gap between my moto helmet and the brace. I have never experienced any restrictions on moto or MTB. I will say this, with MTB we tend to do steep vert drops that require you head to look down and then look up at steeper angles than when I'm on my moto. I do sense restrictions under those extreme conditions. Not stating any of this to be argumentative here, just sharing my opinion. My son also wears a brace while racing A class moto here in Arizona. I do catch him neglecting to ride with it, but that too is just training. Appreciate your vid on this.

[@dbikekid2169]

Ive seen a video by Dr Leatt saying that the back peice on the neck brace is designed to break at much less force then it requires to break your back. Good video dude

[@joshbartel7384]

You know what else i find restricting? Helmets, pain in the butt. Seatbelts. Also, goggles, hate them on my face...until you get used to them and realize they totally can save your life. Ugh, I sound like a dad🙄. I had a few scary crashes back when I was on 125s, where my body looked like a lawn dart. But I’m still walking. Be safe fellow riders and have fun out there!

[@kings17court]

In concept and theory, I really like the idea of neck braces. I've always been surprised that more pros didn't use them. Nowadays almost no pros wear them. I've tried to get feedback from high level riders, and it seems like the general consensus is that, like you said, it doesn't allow you to get into proper riding position, which ultimately makes you more likely to crash. That said, Villopoto has ALWAYS worn one, and he is as good as it gets, and has achieved everything there is to achieve. He has always worn Atlas, so maybe they are worth considering if you are gonna wear one.

[@johnnymoretti]

One study is enough! Because they didn't just use a single or small pool of patients to determine if the neck brace provided more benefit than not. They used nearly 10,000 (yes...ten thousand) patient injuries to determine their effectiveness. If more studies were done, then then we'd get more info, but the benefits won't change much. The proof is in the pudding.

[@betterthannotgoodmtb]

I appreciate your thoughts on the neck brace situation. I came across your video because I've been looking into them after suffering a hyperflexion neck injury in January. I crashed at 30 mph on my mtb and when I went down the helmet chin guard caught the ground causing the injury. It definitely spooked me, and I often wonder how close I was to something more traumatic and life altering as the young man you speak of, and well, countless others. I'm confident a brace would have benefited me a great deal and it would've spared me from the injury. So, as for myself, I am much more of an advocate for them now. I thank you for your insight on designs as well. Having that bit of knowledge is pretty critical. With protective equipment I understand there is always going to be a give and take between mobility and protection. But knowing about some of the designs and how they may also create there own problems in the event an undesirable scenario were to arise is great food for thought and research. Which I am off to do more of. Thanks again for your thoughts.

[@jimbefit3073]

YOU SAID IT! You don't like that back platebecause your back gets broken at the bottom of the back pad. WELL...IF IM COING TO CRASH hARD ENOUGH something is going to break- id rather it be lower so I maintain use of my arms. Much better than being a vegetable. Imho

[@modash1231]

F1 drivers absolutely do look around a lot. If the neckbrace restricts movement, and may be a competitive disadvantage, then you just have to make it mandatory for all then it's competitive parity.

[@MrHardbodies]

f1 drivers do NOT look around. They literally can’t.

[@modash1231]

There are thousands (tens of thousands?) of F1 helmet cam clips... F1 drivers are looking around for situational awareness all the time.

[@modash1231]

Come to think of it, making it impossible to look around may actually be more dangerous since it would make blind spots dramatically bigger.

[@GONAVYCHIEF]

Great video. The level of protection is a personal preference but I have fallen on numerous occasions and I strongly feel my protective gear did its job. I have not always worn a neck brace but I do wear it if I’m going on a challenging ride.

[@gmeyer6657]

I agree with everything said!

[@kangkong658]

My 6yr son race bmx supercross we have him in full gear. He took a t-bone crash bent his back rim. This was at a new track. Some of the adults were laughing because my son was cryin. One screamed out he's fine he got on all that gear, he can't ride take that brace and pads off. We packed up our son and left. Needless to say that guy was a racer and got hurt he DIDNT have on a neck brace. Everyone's in full gear now 🤓.

[@shaunoleary8740]

I'm so sorry to hear your buddy got hurt man :( I sure hope he makes a full recovery. Thank you very much for your thoughts on this - I'm definitely in the market for a brace as my skills advance and I'm trying more features. All the best from BC Canada :)

[@MOAB-UT]

I think you are on to something. I have long envisioned an entire head/neck/spine system. It needs to be flexible and adjustable and work in concert with all parts- the neck part, helmet and spine protector. The two top parts can act almost like a Hans device. Something must physically attach to the helmet so that your lid can't come flying off- as they often do. There are also bicycle airbag systems now. Something similar might be adapted to inflate and protect when the sensor detects a fall- though all those forces on a bike might well set it off every 5 seconds- unless it was tethered like on a jet ski. Racing is really just a controlled crashes where you try to keep the rubber side down. To your very valid concern about the pressure issue- I agree. It needs a wide, curved contact area at the bottom that does not press on the vertebra- outside of it. Maybe it can rest on top of a plastic back brace to mitigate and disperse those forces. I do think something is better than nothing. It's just a matter of designing that something. Then they need to show numerous, real world definitive tests that clearly prove it helps and provides next level protection. Give it to 20 top riders for a year and track them against another 20 without it.

[@MikeRiddleMusic]

The space between the brace and helmet may depend on particular helmet design as well. (and your neck lenght ofc)

[@joshinman6214]

I still wear my evs neck roll I bought in 2005. I've owned a leatt and it limited my neck movement so bad I just never felt comfortable.

[@Riezig]

It will be interesting if they start making airbag vests for mx riders in the future.

[@matthewbutler4650]

I wear the atlas the atlas but I just start riding again after 20 years. I really don't even notice it after the first couple minutes. It's been 11 months since the video was made, did you try it? Thoughts?

[@hermittanimoto9325]

Tks for the link to the EMS case study...nice size sample data by that med group...guess I'll go for a neck brace after all.

[@martinfoster5163]

I've never had one or worn one because I was mainly an adventure rider with less off-road than on-road. Now I'm 95% off road, quite spirited trail riding. Not racing. I still think there are perhaps other solutions than the neck brace for my case. I've recently experimented with an airbag vest (Helite Turtle) and done some fit tests with my Leatt 5.5 body protector over the top. The theory is the airbag will deploy and cradle the head - this part works well. Also, the body protector (hard plates) will distribute point loads (rocks, trees, etc) across the plate and across more of the airbag. Another plus is the Helite has a fairly thin fabric and could be punctured or torn, so the hard plates should deflect things (tree branches, pointy rocks) that could penetrate the outer material and the bladder. The nice thing is there's no encumbrance of the head in normal riding. Hopefully it's only active when you fall off. What do you think? It's the same principle as off-road airbag vests being used in Dakar racing now. Helite, Alpinestars and others have are are introducing them for general sale soon. They are airbags with added exterior armour too. The difference is those are AI (electronic sensors) whereas mine is tethered to the bike. I prefer tethered because I can source CO2 canisters for about $3 from China - if I buy 10. Which is a fraction of the canister price of Helite or Alpinestars ($85 - $100 per canister). If I fall off, providing I'm uninjured, I can replace the canister in 2 minutes at a cost of about $3. The electronic airbags are in for a hefty charge because some require you to send the airbag vest back to the manufacturer (Alpinestars) or replace your canister yourself for $85, IF you can find one. They are very hard to source in far off countries, like Mongolia where I live.

[@flowstateofmind]

That's an interesting find. I wonder if they have vests like these for mountainbiking. In any case I would say be careful combining it with your neck protector. It's not like they have been tested to work together...

[@martinfoster5163]

@@flowstateofmind electronic airbags would probably work with mountain bikes. You'd have to be careful to find one that didn't need to sense engine vibrations. Some do that. The problem is the detection of a crash. Mountain bikers usually ride technical terrain which would be hard to distinguish from a crash: bumps, drops, jumps and whoops all create forces that a road designed airbag would consider a possible crash. A tethered (mechanical) vest like mine wouldn't work because the force required to pull the tether pin would probably pull the bike along with you. In other words, you would not separate from the bike cleanly like you would on a motorcycle or horse which are massively heavier than a bicycle of any type. Most likely, a special version of an algorithm would have to go through a lot of testing to avoid unneeded deployments and detect actual crashes. This is not easy for off-road.

[@flowstateofmind]

@@martinfoster5163 yeah I think we would have already seem those if it was so easy.

[@grimmriffer]

The trouble with that study is there's no suggestion that a qualified statistician has been anywhere near it. You might think "why would one be needed?" but it's shockingly easy to trip up when presenting statistics. Even I can see several weaknesses in the study that need addressing. First, it only covers patients, not all riders who attended. Once you've crashed hard enough to see the medic, a neck injury is more likely without a brace - what is the likelihood of neck injury for *all* riders? We know braces affect posture and therefore machine control, and so potentially make crashing more likely. A brace that helps the neck in some scenarios but makes crashing much more likely could be a negative overall. There is also no attempt to control for speed or ability. Maybe experts, who ride faster, jump higher, and crash harder, are more likely to avoid the brace - they tend to have better technique and would feel the restriction more than a novice who just sits bolt upright round the track. We don't know the right answer yet, and maybe there isn't one. Make your choice, keep your mind open and be prepared to change it, and don't belittle those who do different - we don't have the answer yet, so for now we're all just finding our own compromise.

[@FullSend93]

I've went down many times riding and ill tell you wearing my neck brace REALLY helped vs not....I suggest people to wear it but again it's all preference. Find the rite neck brace fitment I wear a leatt and a fly helmet. Fly helmets are known for being real stubby compact. If you have a long shape helmet like an Ls2 or oneal that has a bigger chin bar yea I definitely see how it will restrict alot more.

[@RichardsCranium]

i have personally seen several people including 1 top gncc pro this year break their neck with a brace on. The gncc pro you can find the video online. He endo at low speed and the seat literally hit him on the back of the brace slamming that hard brace into his vertebrae causing fracture. This same pro also has a brother that last year crashed during a race also captured on film and the brace slammed him on the side of his neck leaving a massive bruise luckily didnt break anything. But there is nothing safe about a hard plastic/carbon fiber toilet seat around your neck to then be slammed into your neck.

[@watti7643]

I just broke my neck one week ago thank God I'm not paralyzed I will never ride a bike without a neck brace again.

[@slavicboy6796]

I Hope that you already recovered

[@DSwann]

I’m fused from C2 to T2. Are you not riding because you can’t or because you don’t want to? Did the doctor tell you couldn’t never ride again because if he did that’s a fucking lie. I’ve had five spinal injuries and I finally figure it out by taking yourself out of everything will make your body 1 million times worse. Length in your spine by doing yoga and all is good

[@mentals555]

@@DSwann I think he was saying he will ride again but not without the neck brace lol

[@Elmundodeadhara]

I hurt my neck because I did not wear any neck protector. I fell onto my shoulder and my head whipped. So I think we have to use a neck roll or neck brace

[@danielarney9729]

CE Airframe and atlas worked with little finagling, took out removable extra padding in vest upper center, used smallest neck brace removable pads, zipped tied the two together in 4 places to keep brace down, forgot it was on after first lap. Little heavy, and you have to take them off together, but my neck, back, and ribs are happy. It's good to talk about, cause allot of us suck, and are completely out of shape, and have basically no business even riding a recliner. I looked for couple years for something affordable and usable as a pair for my slow ass, and I could not get a straight answer, most of the sponsor whores only used them for a paycheck I guess, but what you guys use on Sunday, sells on Monday. I have a best friend that has to be rotated every couple hours, hand fed, and bag changed from a little swimming accident, we used to ride together, now I just visit from time to time, fix his chair, shoot the shit, bring real food to nursing home. Without money, and good health care, you don't get all the fancy gadgets you see on tv for hurt people, I had to sneak a little walmart fan in, wrench on his electric chair in a shared room, no voice activated shit at all, can barely get a phone call to him cause they don't feel like holding a phone. Burping bags is shittier then the food that goes in it. Talk about this shit allot, figure the shit out somehow. If bikes had problems, they would fix it. Maybe local tracks could save on liability or some shit. Ps, my friends parents lost the house with renovated handy cap everything cause they all crumbled from the massive task of caring for him, then you will also get the pill head friends coming out of the woodwork when prognosis is grim. Sorry, had to paint a picture of the reality, regular guys, non super stars eventually get shoved into a corner and get forgotten about because it's too much to bear. Alls you can do is hope for a day at the beach, and possibly getting a go cart somehow, a place to live wouldn't hurt.

[@Matt-sn2ub]

Does anyone's opinion really matter in regards to neck braces? The study you're talking about had a MASSIVE sample size and can almost definitively say they work extremely well. I'll take being a little restricted over snapping my neck in half any day. Nascar drivers feel restricted too.... but they still have the systems that wrap around 270 degrees of their head. Anyone who says anything against braces in 2020 is uneducated in my book. There was doubt for a long time but I haven't seen anything besides people shooting their mouths off to suggest they are more bad than good.

[@motocrossaround6910]

Matty Where is the link of that studio? Why you say “almost definetely”? Let’s be open minded please. Why almost every professional rider choose NOT to use one?

[@Matt-sn2ub]

@@motocrossaround6910 "open minded" Show me a study that suggest they don't work. And he names the study in the video.... Looks like you're going against my comment with no merit which is pretty typical of those who argue neck braces are still bad. And why don't pros use it? Many of them do. Why don't professional skaters wear helmets? Answer that one!

[@craighills2382]

I'm getting the atlas, my mate has been saying 27% more seated shoulder contact, RV used and its very low i think its not to bad The others are bulky and ???

[@mabecka]

Other evidence in favor of neck braces comes from a study by Action Sports EMS Inc., a Midwestern ambulance service that frequently provides emergency care for motocross-related injuries. Over the course of ten years, they discovered the following: Riders who didn’t wear a neck brace were 82% more likely to receive a cervical spinal injury Out of those who received a cervical spinal injury, riders without a neck brace were 69% more likely to die as a result Those who didn’t wear a neck brace were 45% more likely to receive a broken collarbone Action Sports EMS also reported that spinal injuries received without a neck brace took longer to heal and had more complications. The evidence speaks for itself, really; neck brace's do work.

[@danielthatcher2802]

I have a Atlas and have never felt constricted by it. I am primarily a woods rider and forget i even have it on.

[@ReinLable]

It's because Atlas "NB" is most flexible so far

[@charlesburks3988]

It's like a horse it's not if you get bucked off just when. Be safe be kind

[@motocrossaround6910]

Tyler! Súper interesting topic to talk about! As you I used that same leatt brace model, got ríd of it. Now I only use the EVS ( only foam ) just because here in my country is it mandatory to use them (any tipe of) at NationalsMX NationalSX and some beach Races like Enduro del Verano.

[@bouldernelsonbigfoot]

They save lives. Period.

[@ThomasBergfiets]

Your brace didnt fit or you used it incorrectly...Leatt is not restrictieve at all...

[@ARausch91]

its important to know, that you have to wear Nack Brace with Backprotect

[@bpastorb]

Sad to see so many MX riders believe that Great Lakes study to be factual information. Someone puts out some 'statistics', some fancy bar graphs then people believe it must be true because they don't know how to actually interpret the information. I am sorry to tell people but it's not a factually correct study, not even close. The way in which they formed their final statistics and presented them should make anyone extremely hesitant in believing anything they have to say. I have read (and it would make sense) that the study was funded by the manufacturers of neck braces. I can't say that is true for sure but the results ended up being extremely beneficial for them. I initially believed it was a good attempt at putting more science into the topic of neck braces but it's quite the opposite and could be damaging to the sport if no further/better research is done now. The major major problem with any information they used is that they did not have sample sizes. They did not have a way, create a way, or even try to guess a way at determining extremely vital information. People think of it as unimportant but it is extremely important to determine any sort of statistical analysis like they went ahead and did. We know they recorded a period of time, and a certain amount of crashes. What they did not tell us is how many riders in the entire population were wearing neck braces compared to not wearing them. For example lets say you have a group of riders you watch for 10 years to see their injuries. 100 of them wear neck braces, 400 of them do not. Over 10 years, assuming neck braces were negligible to safety, did not harm people nor help them - You would expect to see 4 times as many spinal/neck injuries in the riders that did not wear neck braces, simply because there were 4 times as many of them. That would put neck braces exactly equal statistically compared with not wearing one, even though the amount of riders who got neck injuries was higher. Although 4 times as many riders were injured without the neck braces, since there were 4 times as many of them to begin with, the percentage of having a neck injury while crashing would be the same if you chose to wear one or not. If you have the same sample group and record them over 10 years and only 1/8 of the crashes resulting in neck injuries were by the riders wearing the neck braces, then that would provide legitimate evidence that neck braces make you safer. It would mean that riders wearing a neck brace were half as likely to get a neck injury compared to riders that did not wear one. Les say we have the same sample group but 40% of the neck injuries were riders wearing neck braces, and 60% were those not wearing braces. Someone might think 'hey, that still means neck braces make you safer right?' You could make a bar graph and pose this information as such (that is essentially what the great lakes ems team did). The truth of the statistics is that even though 60% of the neck injuries were riders not wearing one, it actually means they still had less overall neck injuries than riders that were wearing one in terms of a percentage. Meaning neck braces would cause more injuries than they prevent, even though numerically more riders were injured that weren't wearing one. Long story short is that the information from the study means nothing without knowing how many total riders were wearing the neck braces and how many total riders were not wearing the neck braces. We all know that the majority of riders do not wear them, meaning the results were very obviously skewed towards riders getting injuries who don't wear them. That is to be expected to a degree. The only major takeaway from that study is that wearing a neck brace almost for sure DOES cause increased risk of clavical/collarbone injuries. Since more riders ride without a brace and more collarbone injuries are from riders wearing the braces, you can almost for sure say that the braces increase your risk. Again it's impossible to say that for sure, or by how much without knowing totals or sample sizes.

[@saneconsulting]

I tried Leatt... but I couldn't put my head back far enough to see the start lights on the BMX start gate. I bought an Atlas brace and found it to be very comfortable because it allowed a greater range of motion.

[@hockwald]

honestly me n chase pretty similar build about 6 foot 160 but we also got some long necks. i wear the leatt 5.5 carbon and the only time i feel constricted is trying to turn my head all the way around to see the other guy but its manageable. better then a spinal cord injury

[@bonedar333]

if it has a gap your neck is vulnerable. the foam doughnut you used to wear would be more effective than that atlas

[@fishrideandski4910]

I agree with you

[@robertpolnicky7702]

Seems like the a m a needs more research in that area. It's like the chiropractors with tinkering have gained more ground than the a ma. Ama needs less campaign finance control.

[@huckfin1598]

This whole conversation is stupid. Do football shoulder pads prevent all injuries? What about helmets? No they don’t. But they protect from certain/specific injuries. Same with Leatt style neck braces. They protect from specific types of injuries. Namely the ones where you head snaps one direction and can crank on your neck. That’s it. People need to be smarter.

[@472BB]

I found this info on Leatt neck braces- Hope it helps someone out! Explains the testing they do (18min long) kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXvbiaSBmp2cqZI History of development and rider interview (26min long) kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJ_ZgYZqa6pqea8

[@NateDogMXtv]

I have an atlas and it good

[@dustinchandler8111]

Dm me on insta it’s dustinchandler_ I have a story I could share about how my neck brace saved my life when I had a real bad crash in a motocross race I was riding the supermini class and cased a triple and broke my back bruised both my lungs and it was the actual neck brace that broke my back to save my neck from breaking

[@mxdirtcarver9203]

🌈 Ryan Hughes…..Broke his neck. Hmmmmm.🤔

[@laryangel4082]

9

[@zeduardo2794]

I dont like use