Today I Learned - Attack Mechanics and Optimizing Inputs [Will Improve Your Game]

[@Schlaechter789]

THE LEGEND HAS RETURNED?! so glad to see an upload by you

[@TehTechnoMiser]

I gotta say, I more or less stopped following Vermintide 2 right around the time you took a break from posting and at around the time the first leaks showed Fatshark was working on what would be Darktide. But seeing you still making stuff that's just as enjoyable and informative as content in VT's hayday makes me happy. Glad to see you're still around.

[@ZeRedSpy]

I'm in the same spot, I sunk close to 500 hours into V2 and just couldn't keep going when Fatshark kept grabbing for money instead of fixing the problems with the game. I still enjoy V2, I just can't justify spending more money on it and I've other games to play. So I really enjoy the content J.

[@abismol]

If you showed a medieval peasant this video their mind would fucking EXPLODE. GONZO BROTHER.

[@Maadmah]

Maaaan, for a bit I thought you stopped playing this game and creating content on it, so glad I found you back again, have fun and thanks!

[@imnotgivingmynametoamachine683]

I would really like to see this in practice in a controlled scenario, showing how block cancel or qq between light 4 and starting another light 1 saves that quarter second and how much real world DPS that translates to.

[@codygarrett4329]

Now that I think about it, binding Attack (M1) to the scroll wheel would be super useful for Dual Dagger Handmaiden. I've tried it before and had fun with it, but the AS honestly gets so out of control that I'm sure I was losing out on output and esp when you're fighting hordes it's super important to keep attacks rolling smoothly since daggers don't have great cleave. With the way attack buffering works + mouse scroll you can probably get pretty insane dmg output for way less apm than spam clicking. So all in all, this was super useful!

[@RivalFaust]

Wow its truly astonishing how similar some of these mechanics are to fighting games, like start up and recovery frames, the buffer inputs, feints/cancels

[@starius1154]

Love your stuff, J. Always appreciated. Just as feedback I would mention the queueing a QQ action section was a bit confusing just because of the sounds. The rest I found informative and delightful. Keep up the amazing work.

[@j_sat]

Good point. You can queue one q so after that goes through you q again...yeah that is hard to hear

[@wildfire3914]

absolute legend

[@botbotowski9824]

If you fast enough and unlucky you can hit window on Kerlian when changing from normal attack to charged attack when she do nothing, knocking you out of momentum, and sometimes leading you to taking damage or dying.

[@jUppers]

im not a big fan of Qcancel ngl. i was happy they fixed it for 2h hammer and now it's back with cog hammer. i wouldn't mind Qcancel if they also didn't fix things like, hagbane charge spam, or blocking before reviving (which now auto blocks) because then it would mean fatshark wants you to know these mechanical backdoors to be a better player, but since they already "fixed" all of those i see no reason why Qcancel should exist instead of block cancelling. i don't mind it being in the game, i just think they are sending mixed signals on what is intentional mechanic and what isn't

[@illican]

weapon swap canceling has been an integral part of combat optimization in games for over 20 years, it's not something devs actively acknowledge because it's expected to exist

[@onoffa]

They "fixed" the 2h hammer only because it was too strong with q cancel. It's not the case with other weapons

[@jUppers]

@@onoffa what other weapons are better with qcancel than block

[@onoffa]

My main is slayer and he's great for q cancelling because he has 2 melee weapon. All his weapon work well with q cancel except for 2h hammer

[@onoffa]

I guess this trick would work for grail knight too

[@gavinx6353]

I did some tests and realized one problem. Some weapons have action_one and action_one_hold together. It seems it supposed to be the charge attack. However, some weapons have different timing windows for action_one and action_one_hold (like Bretonnian Longsword's charge attack one (I think it called heavy_attack_left)) , but seems they work same. For Bretonnian Longsword's charge attack 1, the action_one_hold has 0.05 sec faster than action_one, but when I right click mouse at that timing (action_one is still not available), it can do a light attack if I don't hold the mouse. Also, for the same weapon's charge attack 2, its action_one is faster than action_one_hold, so it is supposed to have a faster light attack rather than a charge attack. But when I hold my mouse left key at the timing of action_one (action_one_hold is still not available at that time), it can charge. Can you explain why this happens?

[@granityseis104]

Great video

[@stanx-k4u]

Nice video, super cool to see the detailed analysis. Though I tried out Q canceling heavy 1 attack on cog hammer as the engineer, I actually notice no improvement in attack speed compared to the normal heavy 1 - heavy 2 pattern. I'm probably doing it wrong?

[@j_sat]

The improvement is not huge over c1 to c2. Just don't use block cancel unless you actually Need to block

[@bensdecoypoondummy1189]

Nice :D

[@Greensiteofhell]

Best game ever! ;)

[@neil2451]

Hi J_sat, I was wondering if Vermintide has a consistent tick rate for frames/second? Coming from a fighting games background most games I know tick at 60fps, I'm wondering if this is how Vermintide works as well?

[@j_sat]

Yes there are physics frames where actual calculations are done and yes I believe they are 60 fps but that is from memory

[@siteks536]

.... dont need optimisation ! Just slash in every way and it's ok !

[@martinm6368]

There seems to be an error in your description. There are two different Debug mods in the steam workshop "Debug mode" by rain_dish and "VT2 Debug" by Sir Aiedail

[@TinyGreyOwl]

Hi, @j_sat. I have a little question: do you block attacks during push animation?

[@The0nlyy]

Yes, just not push + attack. Pushing is safe.

[@TinyGreyOwl]

@@The0nlyy Ah, ok. Thank you.

[@xjcvsjz]

So if my attack speed is higher, the charge time for a charge attack will also be faster? It seems hard to be used to different feelings of charge attack when the charge window is different. Also, can you do something to explain the difference between charge attack 1 for flame sword and flame dagger? It seems the only difference between them is the burning damage is different.

[@j_sat]

1. Correct the timings are all reduced my 1/1+increased attack speed 2. Go dl mods and experiment?

[@xjcvsjz]

@@j_sat The thing I am not sure about flame dagger and flame sword's charge attack 1 is that will they stagger the same amount and the same area of enemies and the same amount of stagger power. I know they have a small difference in frames (speed), but not sure about the effect.

[@j_sat]

Ah come to the discord and ask there someone can help you with specifics

[@Orvect]

"It seems hard to be used to different feelings of charge attack when the charge window is different." Hmpf, that's the fun part of slaying, Azumgi! Feeling the axe ramping up and the gameplay accelerating... GRIMMMNIIIIIRRR!!!

[@racctor]

at ~ 16:46 can you exlain what the 2nd to last action "one_hold [0:55 - 1:55] would do? is that the chain for the second heavy even before the first heavy has started?

[@j_sat]

Good question. I looked into it and you can't trigger it. My guess is it is a mistake in the code that is not actually tied to an actual action so it does nothing. There were some other examples as well of defined input windows that didn't have outputs.

[@Legitimate123]

Does mods like this mean that you could actually make a game mode where everything is sped up to 150%, including your attacks? It would just be considerably faster paced.

[@j_sat]

Absolutely but your frame rate would be 2/3 normal!

[@Legitimate123]

@@j_sat A horrifying prospect.

[@VernonKun]

Doesn't swift slaying wear off once you switch weapon?

[@onoffa]

No

[@xCheatah]

o/