Todd Bolen | TMS Chapel | The Identity of Immanuel in Isaiah

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[@davidrobinson5180]

Atta boy, Todd. One my favorite professors.

[@lindarenken2302]

Have it your way! Do your research , we are all one people.

[@j.d.b.pennamesonofharraant3367]

I am still learning ... I just know I was raised in a lie

[@lindarenken2302]

Who is the Vine on the Tree Of Life?

[@sallymcmurray949]

Peter had several names too.

[@jamilbiotech91]

The sign mentioned in verse 14 to Ahaz is that the two kings who threatened King Ahaz would be destroyed quickly. This sign is described in the next verse: “before the child knows enough to refuse evil and choose good the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken” Isaiah 7:15 It is fulfilled in the next chapter with the birth of a child to the prophet Isaiah: “he (Isaiah) approached the prophetess and she conceived (tahar) and bore (taled) a son and God said to me: Name the child “Maher-shalal-hash-baz” which means (the spoil speeds the prey hastens). For before the child shall know how to cry my father my mother the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Sammaria will be carried away before the king of Assyria.” Isaiah 8:4 Clearly, the woman mentioned in Isaiah 7:14 and 8:3-4 are one and the same and that she is Isaiah’s wife. The real sign to King Ahaz is that Isaiah’s child will be born quickly and before he matures (knowing the difference between good and evil and father and mother) the nations who threaten the Kingdom of Judea will be defeated. Interestingly, Isaiah’s children are specifically referred to as a “signs” from God. “Behold I and the children whom the Lord has given me are for signs and wonders in Israel.” Isaiah 8:18 King Ahaz was told to trust in G-d for assistance and to ask for a sign as proof that his enemies would be defeated. He is told that the sign will be the birth of a child from the young woman who will call the child (Immanuel -עמנואל).[4] Although this name mean ‘God is with us” it does not mean that the child will be divine. It is very common for biblical personality to have names that include God and part of their name. For example, (Daniel -דניאל) means “God is my Judge.” The implication was that G-d would be with Ahaz and the Kingdom of Judah in their fight against their enemies. Isaiah refers to this when he says, “Contrive a scheme, but it will be foiled; conspire a plot, but it will not stand, for God is with us (Emanu El).” Isaiah 8:10 Eventually the Northern Kingdom of Israel and Aram-Syria are vanquished by the armies of Sennacherib King of Assyria (Babylon) who exiled the northern kingdom, “The king of Assyria invaded the entire country… the king of Assyria captured Samaria and exiled Israel” 2 Kings 17:5-6 “Thus God saved Hezikiah (son of Ahaz) and the inhabitants of Jerusalem from the hand of Sennacherib King of Assyria.” 2 Chronicles 32:22 The concept of a virgin birth preceded Christianity and has its roots in Greco-Roman mythology. Numerous Greek and Roman gods were born of virgin births, as recorded in the “Golden Bough” by Frazer, for example Tammus and Attis who both were claimed to be of virgin births. The concept of the virgin birth was adopted by Christianity from the pagan world and has no foundation in Judaism. Isaiah is clearly describing an event that has no Messianic connotations. In fact, the word Messiah is never used in this chapter.

[@stormchaser9738]

Your exegesis is correct, but I’d dispute the pagan origins thing. The idea of the virgin birth definitely comes from the Septuagint translation which was made by Jews before Jesus. They translate “Almah” in Hebrew as “Parthenos (virgin)” in Greek. I happen to think this is a good translation of Almah here, but that’s kind of besides the point. The gospel writers weren’t looking at Pagan writers, they were looking at their Greek translation of the Tanakh. The messianic reading comes from the fact that the prophecy is “shoes too big for Isaiah’s son to fill.” It’s a lot like how a few chapters later Hezekiah is prophesied about but pre and post Christian Jewish commentators view these passages as messianic because the titles and claims about him are far too grand to match what Hezekiah actually did in his life

[@jamilbiotech91]

@@stormchaser9738 I will grant you that “Almah” means Virgin. So that would mean there are two virgin births correct? One in Isaiah’s time and one in Matthew’s time right? Christianity is 100% pagan. For example why is Christmas and Saturnalia so similar? Constantine made Christianity the world’s religion. Early Christian’s didn’t even celebrate Jesus birth. Constantine started it from pagan origins.

[@benny-yj7pq]

You are wrong, the sign is not given to Ahaz, but to the House of David (verse 13). It says in 14 the Lord HIMSELF will give you (plural לכם) a sign, that means the Lord is involved in this miracle of a virgin birth, which is the sign. You can translate alma as a young woman, that does not make her already with child, because the sign is given for the future. Rashi said that alamoth (pl of alma) in Song of Songs 1:3 is the same as betuloth=virgins, and he interpreted 7:14 as a young girl, that had not known a man. Rashi is right, the prophecy is about the Meassiah, it is a hidden messianic text, a prophecy written in an event about two kings, the enemies of Ahaz, that may or may not have anything to do with the prophecy, it has no effect of the sign, but can easily deceive. Verse 13 mentions that this Son will weary the God of Isaiah, the birth of the suffering servant (Isa 53), the righteous one (Jer 23:6). The two words in the Hebrew text identify the Son as the Messiah, Imanu EL is not His name, but His identity as God (EL), as he will be, the Word, that is formed in the womb of the virgin (Isa 43:10) as it is testified in the NT. It is the only God that will come from Heaven (1Cor 15:47), being the incarnation of the living God, the 2nd Adam, a life giving Spirit of God. Imanu EL is the same as in Isa 8:8, the Messiah, who will inherit His land Israel and will destroy the plans of the Assyrian in verse 8:10.

[@jamilbiotech91]

@@benny-yj7pq What does Matthew 1:20 have to do with King Ahaz in Isiah 7:14? How could you interpret that chapter in Isaiah to mean that a virgin will conceive. They are totally different stories that have no relation. How can you tell if a woman is or isn’t a virgin?

[@benny-yj7pq]

@@jamilbiotech91 The sign is not given to Ahaz, but to the House of David (verse 13). The Lord Himself will give you (pl לכם) a sign, the pregnancy of the alma is a miracle done by God Himself, has nothing to do with Ahaz, who did not want a sign. This alma is from the House of David, which gives birth to the Messiah, the Imanu EL, two words, not His name, but the fact, that He will be the incarnation of the single God EL of the Tanach, the Word, that became flesh (Jn 1:1-4+14), the Messiah as in Isa 8:8, where it says, His inheritance, your land Judah, the Assyrian will overflow. But the Imanu El of Isa 8:10-18 will be their salvation, a sanctuary, but a stumbling block, a rock of offense and a snare to Jerusalem, because the Messiah is hiding His face from the house of Jacob, because there is a veil over their head, they cannot see Him, nor hear and understand, that is also true for the messianic prophecy in Isa 7:14. Alma is an unmarried woman from the House of David, surely as Rashi said in his commentary, a young girl, that had never known a man, as Mary said in the NT, it is documented, the Messiah is born of a virgin. This was necessary, because of the curse of Coniah in Jer 22;24-30, the line of Joseph, who received Yeshua as His firstborn son to get His inheritance. It is written, the Messiah will rule from the throne of King David.

[@lindarenken2302]

There are two children’s name Immanu-El. Jesus sent me to research over 8 years ago. Poor research has been done . I havemy I Am that I am.

[@brianadavis6796]

This word for virgin in the Great Isaiah Scroll (Dead Sea Scroll) is העלמָה not עַלמה and the JPL translates העלמָה to virgin every where in the TANAHK, except Isaiah 7:14

[@V_George]

Almah by definition means an unmarried maid/girl which means “virgin” is the only correct translation in context of Isaiah 7:14 for obvious reasons.

[@j.d.b.pennamesonofharraant3367]

I am a Ex Jehovah Witness ... I did not change the 1984 NWT I was born in 1985

[@j.d.b.pennamesonofharraant3367]

My own Interpretation (I encourage you compare Bibles and grab the best info) ZWD (Zion's Watchtower Doubleday) Modified NWT 84 With 66 Doubleday & KJV Incorporated 1 John 5 verse 7 "So for it is, There are three witness bearers that bear record in (*1)heaven(s), the Father, the Word, and the (*2)Holy Spirit: and these three are one." * 1 Paul (Saul) Had a Vision of 7 Heavens so did Enoch *2 Also known as the Holy Ghost

[@sallymcmurray949]

Jesus was Aramaic; therefore, Ishoʿ (īšōʕ), a cognate of the Hebrew term Yeshu, is the Eastern Syriac pronunciation of the Aramaic form of the name of Jesus. Early Syriac alphabet form of the name of Jesus. It is still commonly used as a name for Jesus among Syriac Christians of the Middle East.

[@binren3984]

The Hebrew is clear. Isaiah 7 :14 has nothing to do with a virgin and nothing to do with Jesus

[@Pepsiguy]

What if you were right Bin? Alma - betula? Semantics? The more important question Bin, is what if you’re wrong?

[@binren3984]

@@Pepsiguy It's not semantics. It's the early Church that played with the Hebrew Bible to make it all about Jesus. There many more examples of corruption in the Christian Bible. Study for yourself don't take my word for it. Vicarious Atonement ? Spiritual Cannibalism ? The Trinity ? What if your wrong ?

[@Pepsiguy]

@@binren3984 if I am wrong, we will both welcome the Messiah for the first time with reverence. What has it cost me if I’m wrong? A lifetime of Sundays hanging out with cool people, I think that’s good for the soul. A life of trying to do what’s morally right and living by traditional moral values…. I don’t think that’s any harm to society. Personally, I think the rabbis have been lying for 2000 years. There are plenty of instances in the Tanakh of messianic interpretations that have been reinvented since the New Covenant. There are things in the Talmud and the New Covenant that make me scratch my head but nothing can take away the Holy Spirit that dwells within me. I received the Holy Spirit via my belief in Yeshua, not through head knowledge. If I’m right, the messiah is my propitiation who then turns to the father and declares me innocent of my sin because He paid the price. The Jewish people have no greater friend than the evangelical Christians. The liberals in America have turned their back on Israel. Who are the two most hated people on earth? I would say the Jews and the evangelical Christians. Out of all the thousands of distinct peoples on earth why is it that those two are the most demonized? There is something there and the root is Yahweh. Peace be upon you.

[@binren3984]

@@Pepsiguy I used to believe that Yeshua died for our sins. But now I believe only G-D can forgive us for our sins. We are not helpless we can repent turn away from sin and be forgiven by G-D. I'm curious what corruption did you find in the Hebrew Bible ? You sound like a very kind person may Hashem continue to Bless you. 🤗

[@davidbarber3821]

@@Pepsiguy You're absolutely WRONG

[@davidbarber3821]

The hebraic scripture is clear! It's NOT about a NT idol

[@augsburgbiblechannel9246]

Maybe you can post a short logical argument rather than just empty rhetoric.

[@davidbarber3821]

@@augsburgbiblechannel9246 How is that rhetoric? If you can read/parse & render Biblical Hebrew you can look at Isaiah 7:14 & see clearly its not about JC

[@benny-yj7pq]

Let God, the Messiah, speak for Himself in Isa 46:5 "To whom will you liken Me, and make Me equal, and compare Me, that WE may be like?" Who is We? "For I AM God (EL), and there is none else". The Messiah is the only single God (EL), who is ever formed, the only Savior (Isa 43:10+11), Imanu EL (7:14) in the Hebrew scripture, Tanach. He is equal with His Father, the WE in verse 5, the Eloheinu in Deut 6:4, they are echad in a unity.

[@davidbarber3821]

@@benny-yj7pq 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@davidbarber3821]

@@benny-yj7pq Omg you dnt understand simple grammar & speech .. the WE is "the God of Israel" & the "god" that would be compared to HIM

[@wardashimon-australia33]

The Gospel: Plain and Simple “But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.” - 2 Corithians 11:3 Ask someone today if they are saved and you will most likely hear responses like these: “I have accepted Jesus into my heart.” Or “I have made him Lord of my life.” “I’ve been baptized.” “I said a prayer.” Sounds all good and churchy don’t it; but it is difficult to de-termine whether or not a person actually knows the gospel that saves them. These use￾less phrases don’t describe a thing about what the gospel is and has left a devastating effect of people not knowing what it is that they are saved from nor how they are saved; which leaves a more serious effect of people ques￾tioning their salvation. Let’s not muddy the simplicity of salva￾tion that is in Christ with vague church sounding phrases that do not communicate anything. But rather present God’s word with clarity and assuredness. So here is the gospel: plain and simple. Sin was passed upon all men by one man Adam, and death is a consequence of this sin (Rom 5:12). Mankind has an eternal destiny of condemnation and wrath - Hell - because of this sin (Rom 6:23). No matter what good works one might do we are still found sinners in the sight of our Creator God. And all un￾righteousness and those who follow get in￾dignation and wrath. We cannot be found righteous for by God’s law we are found sin￾ners (Rom 3:19-20). If we have broken even one law we are found guilty. It is for this reason of not being able to create our own righteousness and being born in a sinful flesh that we need a savior (Titus 3:5). Christ is that Savior, God manifested in the flesh, sinless, died in our place on a cross 2000 years ago. Taking upon him the wrath and judgement that was intended for us sin￾ners. And it is through his bloodshed, burial, and resurrection on our behalf that we are able to have peace with God and forgiveness of our sins (1 Cor 15:1-4, Col 3:14). This good news is unto all but only those that believe in it are made righteous in Christ (Romans 3:22). It is then after we have heard this good news of Christ’s righteousness available to us freely, that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit and we are now part of Christ’s body the church (Eph 1:13) There is nothing that we need to do, no good works that are required, and no bad works that can separate us from our new po￾sition in Christ (Romans 8:35-39). Faith and belief in this information from God’s word is the gospel. The gospel is not accepting Jesus into your heart. The gospel is not making him lord of your life, it is not saying a prayer and it is not being baptized with water. So next time someone asks you if you are saved. Give them the clear assured answer “Yes! And let me tell you why!” Find more free resources at www.graceambassadors.com

[@benny-yj7pq]

You have to believe in the only begotten Son of God (John 3:18), The LORD from Heaven (1.Cor 15:47). If you do not believe that He is the I AM HE, the incarnation of God, the Word YHWH made flesh ,and Yeshua is therefore Divine, you will die in your sins (John 8:24). We have to receive Him as our LORD and Savior, because in Him we have also the Father, therefore He says that He is the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father, only through Yeshua, you will be one with God, having a personal relationship with the living God.