Tolkien Dogmatics: Episode 1: Prolegomena

[@hobbitonpiper]

Part of the magic of Tolkien’s works (particularly The Hobbit and the LOTR) is that they connect with a very wide audience, whether due to respecting its literary prowess, or appreciating its religious themes, or for many simply due to its fantastical imaginative world and rich characters and story. It connects and enthralls so many, for various reasons. I enjoyed this video with my pipe this morning, thank you!

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

@@hobbitonpiper agreed. Thank you!

[@appalachian_advmoto]

My two favorite YTPC youtubers on a comment thread!

[@FatSmokyDad]

Thanks for the perspective fellas. I look forward to additional videos on this topic.

[@jerrysfishroom3579]

Great video. Love Tolkien's writing. Enjoyed smoking my pipe to it and listening to your summary. Looking forward to the next video and another pipe.

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

@@jerrysfishroom3579 thanks. The next one is up now

[@c.j.gentile7211]

Good episode, I enjoyed your walk through opening text and believe this method is profitable for this study in this environment. Great insights, I am looking forward to the rest of this series, thank you for the work you are doing to facilitate this study.

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

Glad it was helpful!

[@underoathpiper]

I've been waiting for this since you mentioned it! Thank you sir

[@courtlandclark8197]

Loved this! I would love to hear more excepts read like the last one, and then discussed more. As a fellow minister I am soaking this up and counting this time as an enrichment towards my own theological growth as well as enjoyment of Tolkien. Keep up the good work!

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

@@courtlandclark8197 I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

[@JoshuaBSunderland]

This is the kind of book that I probably wouldn't ever read (I have so many other reformed systematics I gotta read!) but would love to hear a summary of just for general understanding of tolkien's views. Keep up the great work!

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

@@JoshuaBSunderland thanks!

[@EvanMagelssen]

Just started reading this one a few weeks back, super psyched for this series!

[@highlandphaeron]

Fascinating video, a great pipe accompaniment, I look forward to the next and will have a bowl prepped and ready.

[@yusufsayed1583]

Good Afternoon Pastor 😅 Awesome Video👌🏽 Thanks For Sharing 👏🏼 Such a Great Series 📖 God Bless You 🙏🏽 Greetings From South Africa 🇿🇦

[@aroniasdecus]

Got a rare morning opportunity to light a pipe and listen in. I hope you will be able to do more!

[@BlakesPipes]

Such a great series to begin!

[@mikereese15]

Thank you for doing this.

[@djsden6124]

Very interesting, thank you for sharing. Great video

[@Fishingpiper]

Great just love these writings Thanks Anthony 😊

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

Thanks for listening

[@David-fo6oy]

Tolkien was an English catholic, and people must realize that Catholics were a persecuted people who were overtly discriminated against right up until the early 19th century when they were not even allowed to hold political office. Even after they were officially fully enfranchised, they were still discriminated against socially, especially in the Oxbridge world were he existed. So it is more natural Tolkien would be move silent about his Catholism then say CS Lewis who was of the Church of England, albeit a high church Anglican. For Catholics to exist in England they often had to be guarded.

[@kroach2653]

Claiming Catholics were persecuted in England is laughable when you compare it to the persecution of protestants in England and Scotland.

[@benjaminshirley]

​@@kroach2653What are some examples of this persecution you're speaking of? I've read a good bit about post reformation England, so I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say Catholics persecuted Protestant groups in the Anglosphere?

[@benjaminshirley]

​@@kroach2653You must be speaking about reformed/puritan groups, which fell out of favor within the Church of England... Hardly comparable to what the Church of England imposed on Recusant Catholics of the British isles.

[@kroach2653]

@@benjaminshirley Sure so from Alfred the great to Henry the Viii all of the monarchs were catholic. Henry the 8th split from the Catholic Church in 1534 after his nearly decade long persecution of protestants he was also awarded the title of defender of the faith by Pope Leo X. Then we get into the most known, though her numbers of executions pale in comparison to many other Catholic rulers Queen Mary I aka bloody Mary. Mary had 300 protestants burnt at the stake not counting the countless others whose trials were forgone or died in conflicts. Compare that to 183 Catholic public executions that took place in the time period. 1577-1604 during the so-called Catholic persecution. These are only public execution figures not overall numbers as those are even far worse for Catholic monarchs namely Henry VII, Henry VIII and Mary I. Henry the 7th, aka the killer king, is estimated to have executed 57,000 dissenters during his reign. Anyone who spoke against any aspect of Catholicism was immediately tried and put to death.

[@kroach2653]

@@benjaminshirley apparently KZbin thinks my comment is offensive and keeps deleting it. Anyways Henry vII Queen Mary I and King James vIII ought to get you started

[@EllenJohn4]

In reading a collection of Tolkien’s letters, I found he makes more direct references to his faith, most especially in the letters to his son Christopher. It’s clear he practiced his faith with deep and abiding conviction, though did have moments of struggle in that regard earlier in life.

[@boyo_incarnate]

Highly recommend an accompanying read: “Mount Doom” by Paul List + Ali Ghaffari. Incredible read, connects a lot of dots and lot of “Tolkien experts” miss in the very plots of his stories. Made me really excited to reread the lotr series.

[@lucasbeemer5505]

Confessional reformed presby here and I feel the same way about Tolkien. If I ever made it out your way I'd love to visit your church on the Lords day!

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

@@lucasbeemer5505 thank you brother and I'm hope that occurs!

[@thormusique]

This is brilliant, thank you! I really appreciate your considered analysis here. As you implied at the outset, it's truly unfortunate that especially these days, most people are inclined to approach even works of fiction with hardened ideologies and viewpoints. (Well, I supposed any 'ideology' is no more than a hardened idea after all.) So I appreciate both Mr Freeman's approach and you analysis with great gusto. Cheers!

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

I appreciate it. It's a deep but delightful subject matter to dive into.

[@todddale7041]

Hi Kevin and Wilson! You two are my favorite channels with the YTPC 😊. As a Christian myself, Tolkien was a genius at painting with words but Lewis’ theology has held a dear place in my heart since childhood. The Lamb reigns victorious! 😊❤️

[@thepipecottage3301]

It seems to me Holly Ordway’s more recent work on Tolkien is more thorough than the Freeman book in many ways. In no way can Tolkien be made to be Protestant. He often grew frustrated with Lewis and his Anglicanism.

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

@@thepipecottage3301 1) There is less than a year difference between the publishing of both books. 2) The books have different purposes and intents. 3) Freeman is simply presenting Tolkien 's theology, with his Roman beliefs in mind, he's not seeking to reinterpret him. And Roman Catholic readers have affirmed his intents in reviews Read the book, I think you'd appreciate it.

[@thepipecottage3301]

@@TheSpurgeonPiperI trust you have read Ordway?

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

@@thepipecottage3301 I sure haven't but from an interview she had about the book, I would really like to.

[@EllenJohn4]

I believe Ordway and Freeman are colleagues. I plan to read both this book (Freeman) and Ordway’s as well.

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

Interesting!

[@imjustheretogrill9260]

Does it cover his Mariology and Catholic beliefs regarding his Thomistic-Augustinian conception of predestination and sovereignty distinct from Calvin’s? Or does it just focus on elements that would be of interest to Protestants?

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

@@imjustheretogrill9260 yes it covers those subjects.

[@imjustheretogrill9260]

@@TheSpurgeonPiper great, thanks for responding. I just ordered it.

[@asahelnettleton9044]

11:15 I would think that, by "pre-Christian," the author meant that Tolkien's world existed in essentially Europe before the spread of the gospel there. Not necessarily before every event in the Bible. Interesting book so far.

[@TheSpurgeonPiper]

@@asahelnettleton9044 I could be mistaken but I believe both are true: it takes place in an ancient Europe but in the pre-Abrahamic era. At least, that's what Freeman mentions in an interview. I'm only a couple of chapters ahead so maybe it will pop up.

[@asahelnettleton9044]

@@TheSpurgeonPiper Ok, interesting. A lot of anachronism in that case.

[@nathanclark3575]

I find the idea that LOTR is some sort of overtly pro catholic rhetoric to be comical personally.

[@fungusbeef]

Tolkien’s writing is profoundly Catholic, but primarily in a way that Catholics recognize to be so. It’s a world infused with sacramentals and sacramental meaning. In the same way that we cross ourselves with Holy Water or anoint the sick with blessed oil, believing that God acts in and through the physical, the elves work their healing and evil creatures recoil from blessed objects. Tolkien’s Catholicism is on virtually every page, but it’s the soil and substrate of the story. Unlike Lewis, it’s not pronounced loudly, but is assumed. To non-Catholic observers with different beliefs, those preternatural and metaphysical elements might appear to be what separates the world of Middle Earth from ours, but to a Catholic they are what makes it like our world.