Tolkien Geek Reviews Rings of Power Ep. 4: Modern Politics and Not Much Else Going On

We’re now half way through season 1 of Rings of Power, and while this episode wasn’t as bad as episode 3, it had some cringe-worthy moments and not much of anything great. Not to mention nothing seems to be progressing the plot. But hey, no Harfoots, so that’s a plus!
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Episode 3 review: • Rings of Power Ep. 3 R...
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[@rimservices]

In this episode: Karen finally demands to see the manager

[@zoebaggins90]

She's been doing that for all episodes so far.

[@vemto9643]

Exponential Karen: when she's speaking with the manager, she demands to speak with the manager of the manager

[@1Plebeian]

Finally? She's done it every episode!

[@hayakihd8621]

The show is like getting served an elaborately decorated cake which you know was very expensive but when taking a bite you realize it's insides are made out of styrofoam :|

[@majkus]

"…he decided that it should be entirely covered in sugar-icing … 'That will make it pretty and fairylike,' he thought. Fairies and sweets were two of the very few notions he had about the tastes of children. Fairies he thought one grew out of; but of sweets he remained very fond. … and so it came into his head that he would stick a little doll on a pinnacle in the middle of the Cake, dressed all in white, with a little wand in her hand ending in a tinsel star, and _Fairy_ _Queen_ written in pink icing round her feet." - J.R.R. Tolkien You were expecting a little silver star that would permit you to travel to Faery?

[@markmathisen3908]

And that they expect you to eat all of it and will hate and slander you if you dare bring up how bad it tastes. They really have NO idea how to get and retain customers. 🙄

[@radagast7200]

It's like getting served pancakes only to realize there is cardboard in between them and the syrup is motor oil.

[@ThexVaultxTech]

Politics are ok as long as they're applicable and not allegorical to modern specifics- it traps them in a certain time period and bores people who agree and annoys people who don't

[@ThexVaultxTech]

To expand on this, Tolkien directly addresses several political positions in a very abstract sense with the trees and ents and hobbits etc but he would never make reference to a direct political figure

[@tbecker403]

Very aptly put.

[@di3486]

It’s not even politics, they go for straight ideology.

[@Hedgehog1039]

Tolkien also expressed how much he dislikes allegory in his foreword in the Lord of the Rings. He stated that anything which seems so in his work is coincidental.

[@di3486]

@@Hedgehog1039 It just a cheap literary strategy. Tolkien knew much better than that.

[@Themiddleborne]

So the Theo and Waldreg scars are caused by them stabbing themselves with the hilt of the broken sword thingy. The orc doesn’t cut Theo’s arm in the village, he stabs the sharp pointy things on the pommel into his forearm himself to cause the sword to grow. I think the orc cuts his leg, which accounts for the limping later. It’s badly edited throughout anyway

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Ah ok, I guess I missed that.

[@privard89]

@@TolkienLorePodcast has your wife ever read LOTR?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Nope.

[@revanofkorriban1505]

They just can't bring themselves to bring important details into focus.

[@Themiddleborne]

@@TolkienLorePodcast I mean, it’s extremely poorly done with bad editing in the dark

[@mikestanmore2614]

Amazon spent a billion dollars to create *another* vision of contemporary America, with pointy ears and swords. The haphazard casting has resulted in there being no racial diversity between the races of Middle Earth, forcing the audience to look for secondary features. American studios seem do this with every myth they acquire and then destroy - they select a cast which represents contemporary America (not the fantasy setting), then throw out most of the lore, then write their own story anyway. *It's a McFantasy.* It is indistinguishable from Shannara Chronicles or Wheel of Time. Personally, I'm sick to death of McFantasies. Fantasy settings should be unique, or at least distinct from each other.

[@Steven_Edwards]

I am not sure I understand this comment. The pointy ears make the racial diversity in middle earth.

[@mikestanmore2614]

@@Steven_Edwards Okay. Elves look like humans with pointy ears, Dwarves look like short humans with big noses, Numenoreans look like humans who've discovered soap (not 6' 8" on average), 'Harfoots'look like short humans who're yet to discover either soap or sewing needles. When Jackson cast his films, he scoured the world for a cast which all fit the aesthetic he'd chosen for each race. The haphazard casting here has turned Middle Earth into a blancmange. Practically any member of the RoP supporting cast could swap prosthetic make-up and play any race of Middle Earth, because there's no difference between any of them

[@CimbomFanFiction]

@@mikestanmore2614 so true bout the soap

[@jayt9608]

@@mikestanmore2614 I am insulted. Those dwarves are short men with big noses and BEARDS!! 😁 This is not Narnia where apparently dwarves have been known to shave off their beards (see the White Queen's conversation with Edmund Pevensie in The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe.)

[@mikestanmore2614]

@@jayt9608 👍

[@Lothiril]

The skill of catching arrows out of the air sure would have been helpful for the watchwarden Elf in the third episode. Too bad Arondir is the only competent Elf when it comes to fighting (aside from Galadriel of course).

[@mikeburchart8522]

Galadriel managing to shove four Numenorean guards into her cell (without even using any magic at all, by the look of it) and then make her way to the King's Bedchamber - without being detected by anyone on the way - really was jaw-dropping.

[@jonathonmenth3901]

So courageous

[@therealkillerb7643]

You are too kind. This series is a hot mess and "Gul-Ladriel" was an outright, psychotic Karen in this episode. I think I am done with this series.

[@Sp3rw3r]

Cooking a modern tv-show: Everyone likes Mexican food. So lets throw in Mexican seasoning. Everyone likes Italian food. Lets throw in Italian herbs too. Everyone likes Indian food. Lets throw in Indian tastes. Everyone likes deserts. Throw that in too. This should result in a dish that everyone likes, right? Bon apetite.

[@vemto9643]

(What is "italian erbs"?)

[@Sp3rw3r]

@@vemto9643 You would often find oregano in Italian dishes. Thymian and parsil too. Not that you would taste any of it after adding the Indian peppers. Then again, you would not really taste Indian food either with the Mexican chilis added. Basically you have all tastes blend into an unregnizable mass, which probably is best described as vomit. I liked Tolkien's stories. I liked Dragonlance. However I do not see the point of doing a Raistlin and the gullydwarfs in LOTR. It is like puke.

[@spartanFox_LadyFoxGames]

41:20 Correction, (Gandalf speaking of the Palantíri in the Lord of the Rings) "even now my heart desires to test my will upon it, to see if i could not wrench it from him and turn it where i would to look across the wide seas of water and of time to tirion the fair and perceive the unimaginable hand and mind of feanor at their work whole both the white tree and the golden were in flower" (Im pulling this from memory so a few words might be off) So clearly Gandalf says he can see backwards in time with it. BUT the show is claiming Tar Míriel can see forwards in time with it. Which isn't the same as looking back but sorta. Not saying it's really a good use of a Palantíri.

[@kevinrussell1144]

This is a deep discussion, obviously. Tolkien teases, and only tells us what he wants to. It appears the stones "see" only what they witness (or witnessed), but can't see around the corner or into the future. The reason Gandalf wondered about being able to "see" the Undying Lands and even back to the time of the Trees is because a master stone or stones was/were there, too. Some kind of play-back feature must be programmed into them, too. But I think TT Geek's complaint about Miriel's use for seeing the future is sound.

[@spartanFox_LadyFoxGames]

@@kevinrussell1144 Not saying it's really a good use of a Palantíri. As in Amazon is taking to much Liberty with it.

[@christopherpickles7541]

Tar Miriel does not see the vision of destruction cain the palantir - she has it as a dream. Galadriel sees it in the palantir - at Tar Miriel's invitation. So it seems reasonable that Miriel transferred the vision into the palantir, and the palantir itself cannot see the future.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

No, the way she introduces the Palantir makes it clear she saw it in the Palantir, which means that’s probably where she got the dream, not the other way around. Besides, one can’t “transfer” dreams to them and there’s nothing in the show to suggest that’s what she did.

[@kevinrussell1144]

@@TolkienLorePodcast Keep doing what you're doing, buddy. You have more patience and are a kinder, more tolerant person than I am. We appreciate what you're doing with this site, and your love for JRRT is obvious. Thanks.

[@virginiahansen320]

The orc super-human thing is really bothering me. The orcs are supposed to be WEAKER than elves and men. The orcs are SCARED of men and elves. They orcs in LOTR want to flee at the mere prospect of some of the riders of Rohan finding them.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

I wouldn’t say they’re weaker. Grishnakh’s grip is described in a way that implies he’s quite strong. What they lack is courage.

[@virginiahansen320]

Well, yeah, and skill and organization. Either way they're supposed to be at a disadvantage against a human or elf, not the other way around.

[@kevinrussell1144]

@@TolkienLorePodcast They don't have the moral capacity or a sense of the "rightness" of their cause to have complete skin in the game.

[@kevinrussell1144]

@@virginiahansen320 I always harken back to the 300 Spartans versus the Persians. The Spartans were superbly trained individuals who learned to fight as a cohesive unit and primarily fought for hearth and home. The Persians, like slaves or orcs, were motivated by the whims of Xerxes the King but not respected as individual men. The Spartans and Athenians knew what they fought for. You often need to unravel cultural and community norms and structures to fully understand how the historical record plays out as it does. The ROP show runners OBVIOUSLY have no clear understanding as to how JRRT's elves, men, dwarves, and orcs interacted. Making orcs white and evil enables them to show them as enemies you don't have to care much about, but we'll see. We might yet get a Mary Sue orcette.

[@nevilleslightlylargerbotto1726]

@@TolkienLorePodcast I think they’d have to be weaker right? At least compared to the Noldor and Numenorians, who in every engagement, despite being heavily outnumbered by orcs, mange to slaughter them with relative ease

[@ChrisCarterWanderinChild]

26:00 The timeline compression is uneven because the showrunners are employing a variable bit rate.

[@aesir1ases64]

Agree with all the personal drama non sense, it almost feels like soap opera sometimes, Elendil, Elrond, the lore references and the wave scene are the plus, also no harfoots are always a plus, but galadriel and the writing and the dialogue are bad.

[@qaztim11]

No Harfoots this week means double the harfoots next week. This simple fact is almost making me stop watching this show. I love a trainwreck but the harfoot plot is the worst and most boring. Guyladriels plots are infuriating and nonsensical but at least they are entertaining.

[@mikestanmore2614]

Casting Marilyn Manson as Adar was almost as brilliant as putting Disa's beard on top of her head. I had to stifle yawns of enthusiasm.

[@stuyo7422]

It’s a bad bad show, no getting around it. Feels nothing like Tolkien, feels nothing like Middle-earth. The sense of mythology and magic non existent. It barely even feels like fantasy, just some weird soap opera with costumes. The lack of depth is criminal. The decline of Numenor is a deep and gradual process that shows men combatting and obsessing over their feelings with death. This show just glosses over that, it’s just brutal how cheap they’ve done it. I’ve given up even trying to keep up with the story now, the timeline is a complete mess. The easter eggs for the lore are nice, but it shows how desperate this show is when that’s what gets folks excited.

[@Augustus_Imperator]

Adding the words "the most dislikable character of all" to the name "Galadriel" really tells people all they need to know about this farce of a show. And those who read the Silmarillion and the Lord of the rings can well understand how deeply sad and wrong this is. Thank you for your great review, as always.

[@themsuicjunkies]

I think Deep Geek loves that because he loves ASOIAF and Martin's writing is all about unreliable narrators.His story is a human history full of hiperbole, agendas and plain forgetfulness. This leaves a lot unsaid, a bunch of misteries and broken narratives that are very much like Human History. The thing is Tolkien was writing a mythology of the world from beginning to end. In Tolkien if you dont hit the notes and themes of the song then you are not doing Tolkien.

[@JB-gj8pu]

Lord of the Rings is meant to be a human history. However the difference is that Middle-Earth is escapist. Numenorians are meant to be the best possible version of men. Elves are meant to be even better than that. ASOIAF is inspired by human history yet exaggerated by the dark cynicism of American politics.

[@anarionelendili8961]

@@JB-gj8pu Gonna disagree hard on Numenoreans being the best possible version of Men. They started like that, yes, but by the time of the latter half and especially latter third of the Second Age, they (in particular the King's Men faction) were jealous of the elven immortality, and estranged from them, and were brutal conquerors and colonizers in Middle-earth and super-racist. Now the Faithful were much better, but even they had racist mindset when it came to "lesser men", very much reminiscent of the "White Man's Burden" of 19th century and early 20th century Britain. This is shown by the Kin-strife and worries that mingling their blood with the 'lesser men' would diminish their lifespan; it didn't, actually, Eldacar lived a full life, but the already existing decline due to the loss of Numenor continued.

[@themsuicjunkies]

I'm talking only strictly on how the story is written. Basically the narrators voice and POV. Everything in ASOIAF is murky, strictly from the perspective of the chapter's narrator. But Tolkien does not write like that. Its not deliberately ambiguous. We are to belive its words and in-universe we dont have other conflicting sources of information. You are correct that the history of Middle-Earth is the history of creation of our world until the retreat of "magic" from the world.

[@Edschnarr123]

Well, in real world mythology, there are plenty of conflicting, and often downright contradictory, elements because it’s a living thing that actually effected peoples lives. Tolkien, while great, wrote a normal story heavily inspired by his love of the epics.

[@sarahgould5435]

Soooo... we have not-Legolas, not-Sam, not-Frodo, not-Aragorn, not-my-Gandalf, not-my-Galadriel, not-my-Elrond, and now...not-Trump? What the hey, turning an actual Tolkien character into discount Trump?!

[@mrcat3493]

Ar-Pharazon-Trump was so heavy-handed. This show continues to spiral downward, the writing is just awful. Four episodes in and the plot is all over the place. At least the trash-hobbits weren’t in this episode.

[@alandworsky8926]

I’m not sure that analogy works to be honest. Trump is very different as a phenomenon compared to more standard xenophobia and grievance based politics. Just for starters Ar-Pharazon appears to believe in the grievances he espouses against the valar. Any trump analogue would require so many other components that are simply missing. Basically populism and grievance is not trump in a 1-1 way.

[@mikestanmore2614]

I'm sorry to clog up your comments, but you do know all those unanswered questions are just Mystery Boxes from the Jar Jar Abrams school of Bad Reboots. I have no interest in them, because they might never have anything in the box.

[@enriqueparodiYT1]

The "elfs will take our jobs!" line is one of the worst offenders of the episode. Wrong at so many levels! Don't know if to laugh or to cry

[@NineSun001]

I immediatly had the south park scene in mind. If you do or produce anything that induces scenes of south park you royaly fucked up what ever you were doing.

[@GalacticChimp]

23:24 The mark on his arm is from stabbing himself with the spikes at the end of the weapon's hilt. (The weapon manifests when it touches blood.)

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Must have missed that

[@radagast7200]

Galadriel using a palantir like she used her seeing pool doesn't make much sense, because I'm pretty sure she uses Nenya to pull that off. Also, have they introduced Cirdan yet?

[@tomoflathead]

Literally burst out laughing at the "HAVE YOU HEARD OF HIM LAD?!" dialogue is so terrible in the show jesus

[@rimservices]

if the guy waiting for Sauron's return is Baldric, then ADAR is Black ADDER :)

[@nenirouvelliv]

16:00 I think the meteor being sent was the Valar/Maiar reacting to the return of Sauron. Kind of sending their own "Superman" to Earth to combat the evil.

[@jaredmarkham7300]

One of the exactitv claimed that it makes sense that Tolkien's work would reflect the world today.

[@markmathisen3908]

Even though Tolkien specified REPEATEDLY and UNEQUIVOCALLY that he despised allegory and current day themes in his FANTASY stories. The people that created this shit show have no scruples and seemed to delight in trying to destroy his legacy. 😡

[@jaredmarkham7300]

@@markmathisen3908 That is just what we've got to deal with with modern day Hollywood the best way to Stop this is to speak with our wallet and with what we choose to view on these Streaming services I haven't watched an episode since episode 2 but even then I didn't watch all the way through I skipped pretty much all of glad real stuff then watch everything else.

[@DeesoSaeed]

You know things are going bad story wise when characters start to teleport for plot convenience and you ask to yourself "how the hell he/she got there??". In GoT it only started to happen in the latter seasons. The awkward pacing and slow progress makes me feel that we have been in Numenor a year already.

[@jayoungr]

41:10 Thank you so much for pointing out that palantiri are not generic crystal balls. That's really been driving me crazy, and I'm surprised more lore experts aren't zeroing in on this point.

[@PrometheanRising]

The idea that you can watch a show while doing other things implies that the show is poorly made. Much of what tells a story is supposed to be visual in a primarily visual medium. If you aren't having to watch to know what's going on, the creators probably haven't made good use of the medium.

[@o-o857]

you mean they weren't overtly injecting politics in episode 1 with the knife-ears comment?

[@UmBelenense]

GALADRIEL IS A TSUNDERE NOW! AND HALBRAND IS A BADBOY! soon we will hear the word BAKA IT'S NOT LIKE I LIKE YOU OR ANYTHING from pissedriel's lips

[@andrewharrispiano]

I love your take on these things. Nerd of the Ring has clearly taken money from Amazon so says absolutely nothing negative about the series, nothing to correct the lore either and In Deep Geek seems to have been bought but I stopped watching his channel when he was very flattering of the trailers and not correcting the lore.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Lol if you think they’re not being negative then you haven’t actually watched their videos. Nerd isn’t even reviewing the series but he still drops things he doesn’t like.

[@lks_d_u_b_83]

At this point, I think Galadriel will be the one who cuts Sauron's finger. They want to re-write this story to filfull their fuc###g agenda.

[@Waterhouse1666]

To be honest i liked the Adar scene. Only part that held my attention. A motivating ideology for the servants of Sauron makes them far more complex and interesting. Certainly a hell of a lot more interesting than any other character in this show.

[@luke2470]

She can so scale 1000 foot towers in 5 minutes flat. The show is beyond awful

[@randomvideos786]

Great review as always.

[@TallisKeeton]

Me as fan of fantasy movies : - generic soap opera about American teenagers, stupid but gives so much fun becouse of its stupidity 🤣 Me as Tolkienian : - BRING ME BEZOS ! 🤣

[@MemeGene6969]

it was not bad they said...

[@jonservo]

So your wife's review was, it's a great show if you're not actually watching it LOL. Honestly I think I would give it the same review I watched one episode and even during that I was doing other stuff like scrolling Instagram. The only reason I was paying attention at all was because I was giving the show the mystery science theater treatment

[@Rick586]

This show sounds genuinely miserable to watch.

[@stellifriends7785]

others have commented that Elrond is the most interesting character; likewise that it is generally meh.

[@hunterdehring4753]

what is the palitacal junk suff

[@davidcoleman757]

Make Arnor Great Again!

[@bkg5494]

“too many characters…too much, too soon, too fast.” okay, so you haven’t seen GoT.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Nope.

[@bkg5494]

@@TolkienLorePodcast fair enough!

[@Theelby33]

Exactly how I feel about your show. Meh.

[@MichaelGaskin]

You said in an earlier video that you are a purist...it seems you attacked PJ much harsher on those terms, but you seem to give this a pass. Are you a purist or not?

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

I can’t even worry about lore violations in a show whose starting premise is that every major plot point connected with the Rings of Power happens in the last decade or few of the Second Age.

[@blackswanf4u]

The show might have commited a huge blunder... One of the scenes with Halbrant and Galadriel in the cells: Halbrant says: "Give them a means of mastering it. So that you can master them." Halbrant is Sauron.🤫

[@rosie_gamgee]

You should read the Silmarillion or something, cuz obviously Donald Trump is right there on page 437 😂😂😂

[@aesir1ases64]

Donald of the orange house Trump, high king of the Yankees of the West, defeated in single duel by the Dark Lord Biden.

[@SaladDressing69]

@@aesir1ases64 BYRON FOREVER HEWN OF FLAESH, NEVER AGAIN ABLE TO TAKE FAIR FORM, YES.

[@jagpro91]

Ar Pharazon is going to make Numenor great again!

[@di3486]

😂😂

[@SaladDressing69]

@@jagpro91 The Judean People's Front?

[@mikeMakhno]

All they needed in the Numenor street scene was MNGA hats.

[@Steven_Edwards]

No, they needed a bunch of Z stickers.

[@ReadingAde]

A little defensive there, MAGAt

[@belegur8108]

and if ever there was a staged "polititian calms a mob" than we got it here. The waiters and waitresses are already at the edge of the mob with their plates of wine to serve, while Pharazon shows his not callused hands stating "By my callused hands" ... jup, thats the normal MAGA crowd right there, oblivious of the obvious... for non-americans its the pike of stupidity.

[@markmathisen3908]

To be honest, I'm actually surprised they didn't have some of the Numenorians with odd purple haircuts and facial piercings telling everyone to respect how unique they are. 🤦

[@nevilleslightlylargerbotto1726]

And they needed the inverted version of the faithful in this Hellmouth version to be hosting children at drag queen story hour to fully adapt the story into something “modern”

[@eugene8498]

Galadriel's arc - she learned to say please, finally she's at the level of my six year old daughter.

[@mrcat3493]

The writers have destroyed her character. Galadriel is wise in the lore, yet they are treating her like a petulant teenager.

[@Runsfrombears]

Apparently it takes 5000 years for an elf to get there.

[@Makkaru112]

Meanwhile by the second age even begins she’s already 5000 years old and definitely 3000+years older than Celebrimbor

[@Makkaru112]

@@mrcat3493 yeah. And they teach total maturity by age 50/100 as that’s when their coming of age ceremonies begin and all sorts of rights of passage

[@eugene8498]

@@Makkaru112 And early in Valinor she is said to be gifted with insight into others minds but she judged them with mercy and understanding, she withheld her goodwill from none except Feanor.

[@sambakich7494]

No Harfoots is a plus.

[@UberChargedTrollFace]

No joke

[@damienjstepick]

No show, donating the production/post-production/ADR/orchestral & marketing budgets to help feed and house the homeless and help individuals struggling with mental illness would be a plus.

[@Thehuntress404]

Last week I skipped through most of it, watching a second or two here and there to see if I’m missing anything

[@zoebaggins90]

@@Thehuntress404 the plot is not progressing, so you didn't miss anything.

[@dataman6744]

The harfoots bailed out of self-respect

[@tombombadil4028]

How did Galadriel even manage to lock the guards in the cell? We don’t see her steal a key off them or anything? Was she able to lock and unlock the cell the whole time?!?!

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

🤷🏻‍♂️

[@belegur8108]

i guess, as the guards unlocked the cell to let her out, the key still was in the lock... but the rest? yeah... right.

[@qaztim11]

Notice how the door opens outward in one shot, then inward in another shot just so guyladirel could have an easier time trapping them

[@belegur8108]

@@qaztim11 jup, like the lantern-torch-lantern continuity with Arondir exploring the tunnel or Halbrands stealing the dagger in court, next scene not having any dagger, both hands free and no place to hide that large dagger on his person, then next scene handing the dagger to Galadriel, all in plain sight of everyone

[@CorePathway]

That scene shows complete contempt for the audience: we have to dumb ourselves down to its level to avoid simply yelling “Bullshite” at the screen

[@anarionelendili8961]

That line about elves immigrating to Numenor and stealing their jobs was so groanworthy, and totally, totally the wrong thing to base the Numenorean estrangement of the elves on.

[@georgevaughn6486]

"They took our jobs!" South Park voice 😀

[@RoninDave]

Or how about them shouting "Elf Lover!"? Gee, what could that be referring to?

[@squaeman_2644]

How the hell did these people get writing jobs? Unless their education was paid for so they'd become political mouthpieces...

[@attilamarics4808]

@@squaeman_2644 I search the people that work in this show, and nobody has credentials. 99% of the actors, writers, directors worked in very few things before. And the 2-3 that has something only worked in shit shows and movies.

[@johngeiger3770]

Numenor was a human paradise inspired by Atlantis of Plato. There was no want and shortage of happiness on this island. It was a land of abundance and knowledge, and every Numenorean was a highly resourceful, creative, noble human beings. However, this glory with which they have been blessed with became the cause of their downfall. They don't want to let go of everything they have accomplished and began to see their mortality as a curse, an injustice of sorts and began to envy the elves. That's it. That's the actual Numenorean resentment, not the "they took our jobs" BS.

[@joncampbell5021]

I enjoyed the part where giladrial told the 4 guards she would not conform to gender stereotypes and put them all in jail

[@kristiandimitrov7066]

Why is our world leaking into their world? When I read Tolkien, I don’t read it to get reminded of current year, theme and politics. I read it to escape all of that. I read it to go to a place where I can escape all the annoyances that happen here and now they do exactly that. It’s just so irritating that they are doing this to Tolkien of all people, at least get rid of his name if you want to inject your modern problems into this.

[@ReadingAde]

You do know that the modern world was part of Tolkien’s work right? Every piece of art is shaped by the time it was created. Get a grip

[@dangerjoe8911]

@@ReadingAde Yeah, and he actively shows that he hates modernity. The Lord of the Rings and his work at large is a thoroughly romantic piece of literature and -dare I say it - a Streitschrift against modernity in it's own right, and that alone shows that modern day politics should have no place in a Tolkien adaption "Get a grip."

[@kristiandimitrov7066]

@@ReadingAde Oh really? You mean like the machines and devices that Saruman’s devices? When you read his work, can you tell what year and time it was made? Frankly I can’t and that’s the magic of it. It is timeless. Please re-examine yourself.

[@kevinrussell1144]

You miss the game...they monetize their crap by falsely attaching a conjuring name (Tolkien) to what they've dropped into the bowl. Flush it quickly before the stink kills us all.

[@Hedgehog1039]

@@ReadingAde If anything Tolien showed disdain for the way the world was going and this theme is actually shown throughout his tales of Arda as the world is dying. He was also not a fan of allegory.

[@fayis4everlove]

The problem with the series is that the character interactions are all copied from different modern american T.V show. You can already tell what will happen next after watching a scene.. The queen dreaming, Isidul getting his classmated fired and them fighting, Galadriel saying "There is a tempest within me" and going to Jail, the annoying kid going back to the village for a questionable reason. .. like we've already scene all of these a million times in modern american t.v series.

[@SaintFort]

Provide examples.

[@marnik261196]

Yes provide some examples

[@re9498]

@@marnik261196 they did though?

[@SaintFort]

@@re9498 They did not provide analogous examples from other shows.

[@willtheprodigy3819]

Where have you seen someone say “there is a tempest within me” in a modern American TV show?

[@game_jinx]

so much screen time in these episodes to add 5 minutes of genuine world building

[@CimbomFanFiction]

2% of the episode was adar killin n crying over the hurt orc

[@TheCaroleriordan]

Lot of hype but little storytelling. Disappointed

[@Steven_Edwards]

They have five seasons. This is only episode four.

[@squashedeyeball]

Beyond the desecration of the literature, the lack of experience behind this show is painfully obvious: -The writing team could enjoy at least another decade of experience, before being assign with this project. -The directors are amateurish. Some scenes start so well, but fall apart due to awful editing, atrocious cuts, stiff chereography and a cheap use of music. -Every single design looks both excessive and cheap at the same time.

[@FredFurburguer]

That's the worst of it. It's obvious that they are "inspiring" themselves with all the methods and tricks used to make Game of thrones and prolong it for many seasons. And it's not just amateurish, but it's not fresh either and everyone feels it. Just another blockbuster to keep you entertained, but no spirit to go further.

[@squashedeyeball]

@@FredFurburguer Indeed. There is something very tired about this show. Like it was exhausted even before the premiere.

[@RoninDave]

Numenoreans at the beginning of the show - We hate Elves! At the end of the show: Let's go to war for the Elves! That inconsistency aside, we've seen very little of an enemy needing a major Numenorean expedition. We've seen about a dozen orcs, a couple of wargs, and a bad elf. I'm just constantly amazed how amateur and incompetent the whole thing comes off!

[@UberChargedTrollFace]

I'm glad you have the guts to watch this steaming turd of a show. My amazon packages I've gotten lately have been wrapped with rings of power themed tape.. lol They're REALLY trying hard to sell it.

[@AdirondackRuby]

I got one of those bubble-wrap packages with RoP branding on it too. Just what Tolkien wanted! LOL

[@UberChargedTrollFace]

@@AdirondackRuby Seriously. One of mine had a shitty little treasure chest texture on it. I would absolutely adore something of the like if it were endorsing anything but this show.. lol

[@mrcat3493]

I noticed that at work with the Amazon delivers last week. I just rolled my eyes.

[@TJDious]

And the line to kiss the ass of those who predicted this starts... right... here.

[@horatiussonofrome812]

You are right, I want people to start apologising asap

[@TJDious]

@@horatiussonofrome812 Do you feel like one of the faithful being persecuted by the King's Men? Sometimes I do.

[@horatiussonofrome812]

@@TJDious yep

[@aesir1ases64]

Hey at least you guys can appreciate The Hobbit more now lol

[@horatiussonofrome812]

@@aesir1ases64 ikr lmao

[@Sleepy.Time.]

i wish Amazon had stuck with being a online book store only

[@mrbeety]

The best way I can sum up this show and what Amazon has done is: you can pay for school, but you can't buy class.

[@Siege513]

"You have not touched THIS Palantir." "My Uncle Feannie made the Palantir, I played with them as toys when I was a little girl. Including this one."

[@MrChristophSteininge]

The story of the downfall of Numenore is painful to read. There is this glorious island and it is closer to Valinor than any other landmasses. Thematically too, it was given to Elf-friends, conjured up from the seafloor by the gods as a reward for bravery and sacrifice and friendship. Humans have their own fate and it is quite different then the fate of the elves. The numenoreans straddle the midpoint between these two races. They were long lived but not immortal and lived on an island close to paradise. Being human they were ultimately not satisfied with being second class elves. And so the downfall of these people happened well before their isle was submerged and everyone drowned. This is a scaldic epic story. I dare say the average numenorean did not care about elves or extreme longevity versus immortality. It was the nobles, the princes and kings, already vastly powerful. They were even being able to bring about the defeat of Sauron and his armies several times. The kings of Numenore were on par with the mightiest elven princes and they knew it. But still they died in the end. No reincarnation in Valinor for them. The sorrow and envy destroyed them. How to portray this in film? Hm, I think that is why politics were brought as a theme. To portray why the sentiment towards the elves was so foul and fanatical. You could have shown that in another way. Like portraying the lords of Numenore to be an explotive caste of the privileged,. Instead we get a bearded numenorean prince whipping up public sentiment. Is this something I want to see in all particulars? I will pass, I think. I like my Tolkien stories unsullied with this. For me a Tolkien story is about heroism. Instead of showing how the anti elf sentiment was created the show could have concentrated about the heroism of the faithful, their tribulations at the hands of the fanatics, in short having the hateful part of the populace being already the adversarial force. That would cause us to root for the faithful, creating much needed sympathy of the audience with the protagonists. This is an aspect the show so far is regrettably lacking.

[@metempsychosis4062]

As Tolkien said in On Fairy-Stories, the fate of Fantasy in human Drama is to be diminished, if not destroyed.

[@majkus]

To be fair, he was speaking of stage drama, in which you already have to work to achieve Secondary Belief even for non-fantastic things. The whole purpose of the elaborate film technology of today is to allow us to believe we are really watching the things that are portrayed on the screen-this is, of course, also cultural: we are habituated to entering the world on the screen. (see Woody Allen's "The Purple Rose of Cairo")

[@armandgallanosa]

Next season will be the invasion of MAGA-orcs, known for red helmets

[@TallisKeeton]

Not mine but I love it :) " What is not gold may still glitter, Not all tales are poorer unfinished; A tree in its prime may still wither If the caretaker’s skill is diminished. A word from a child shall be spoken, Exposing the charlatan tailors; Their league of lies shall be broken, Their fraud shall be drowned in their failure. "

[@Mako2401]

Amazon should have just spent that billion on making their own new fantasy show. We all know the reason they wanted Tolkien's name is because he means something , while the people who work on this are no one and nothing. The only thing they know is inserting modern politics into things that are meant to be timeless.

[@sammiealexander2567]

At the End of All, someone should get the courage to say this to Mr. Bezos: "You are a delivery guy. You figured out how to deliver packages efficiently. This made you a billionaire... but that doesn't mean your are cultured or sophisticated or smart. You are, and you always be a a delivery guy. So, stay with you know best, get richer, enjoy life and stop publicly embarrassing yourself messing up with cultural concepts you cannot ever comprehend."

[@xiaodre]

I am a new Sauron convert. I am rooting for him to win, and i am looking for the orcs to kill all the main characters.

[@tombombadil4028]

Why would they make Miriel the “Queen” if she’s the descendent of the guy the people hate? That doesn’t seem logical whatsoever!

[@Lithaldatwin]

"You don't vote for kings!"

[@marnik261196]

Duh, you can't change a 1000 years old powerful blood line like that.

[@zoebaggins90]

Most importantly, who's the black ancestor of all those random black people dispersed in the different races?

[@tombombadil4028]

@@Lithaldatwin it’s specifically stated that they overthrew Tar-Palantir and that she was CHOSEN (emphasis on CHOSEN) to rule in is his stead.

[@kevinrussell1144]

@@tombombadil4028 Go ahead and say it, Tom. You don't even need to sing it in a song or rhyme it. The Show Runners are Full of Shit. They are not adapting Tolkien. They are MAKING UP shit to support their agenda and are expecting us to open wide and eat it.

[@k-matsu]

So glad that people like you are watching and reviewing this monstrosity, so that I dont have to! The one thing that makes me feel optimistic is the utter failure of the showrunners to create characters. As bad as the lore butchery is, I can feel confident that nobody 20 years from now is going to remember Galadriel or Elrond based on the depictions in this show. It isnt just details like the fact that Galadriel ought to be married, or that Elendil and Isildur shouldnt be born yet. Those things may ruin it for Tolkien fans, but in the wider river of cultural memory they dont matter as much as the fact that none of these characters are actually human. I can illustrate this point by simply identifying the closest thing the authors have achieved, to date, in terms of creating a real human character. Disa, Elrond and Durin IV have almost achieved this, because the three of them actually have RELATIONSHIPS with other characters. None of the other characters in the show have ever had genuine human interactions like affection, concern, envy, admiration, distrust, love, friendship . . . although they exist in the same world as other characters, and they make word-salad speeches intended for the other characters to hear, not one of them has ever managed to display genuine human-to-human feelings with the possible exception of disdain, scorn and annoyance. Even Don Lemonglas and BrownWymn ... they obviously want to roll in the tall grass, but there hasnt been the least indication of any REAL relationship between the two. What they have in common, what they value, where their natures conflict... In short, these characters DO NOT HAVE a SOUL. It is totally impossible for any viewer - normie or geek alike - to feel anything for the characters, because we FEEL how soulless they are. Ironically, no matter what your genetic makeup might be it is impossible for anyone to "relate to" these characters. The Rings of Power will go down in history as an **offense** to Tolkien, not to be taken anymore seriously than the (actually quite funny) Harvard Lampoon novella "Bored of the Rings". Simply because no one will be able to ignore the bipolar contradiction between the full-colour-pallette characters in Tolkien and the 16bit greyscale "characters" in RoP.

[@kuna129]

:) Beautiful frame and amateurish painting - is a very polite way to put it.

[@Steven_Edwards]

Tolkien said he left the canvas of the second age for others to fill in. If you have a problem with the way others are filling it in, take it up with the estate.

[@kuna129]

@@Steven_Edwards :) Absolutely! That thing Simon is the reason why those 'show-runners' were hired. And you enjoy the wonderful product, they made it just for you!

[@TallisKeeton]

So if they made this show with inclusion of so much of just American (local) actual politics then how non-American audience could feel it is inclusive for "global audience" ? :D

[@tayh.6235]

Insert 🎶 we're all living in America 🎶

[@TallisKeeton]

@@tayh.6235 :D

[@mikestanmore2614]

It's a McFantasy.

[@belegur8108]

@@mikestanmore2614 simple answer... we can't. from Germany

[@TallisKeeton]

@@belegur8108 Hello my neighbour :) from Poland

[@revanofkorriban1505]

Looks like the showrunners decided to adopt J. J. Abrams's Mystery Box Approach.

[@mikestanmore2614]

Yep

[@09Ateam]

LOST ruined an entire generation of TV & movie writers

[@belegur8108]

the show runners already worked with Jar Jar Abrams in Star Trek into Darkness, another mile stone of quality entertainment.

[@radagast7200]

The whole immigration straw man thing is extra funny when you think about the Scouring of the Shire...

[@justaguy2365]

Hello fellow Tolkien geek. Just found your channel. I refuse to watch this series. But I'm an avid reader of the books and have read them at least 15 times.

[@TyTyman8]

What would’ve happened if a reincarnated Fingolfin and Glorfindel fought Sauron at the end of the last alliance?!?

[@nathanlandolt5505]

Hard to say. Fingolfin's power against Morgoth is in large part due to his despair. He was certainly very powerful but the height of his power is against Morgoth

[@aesir1ases64]

I would assume both are stronger than Gil-galad and Elendil, so they have a chance of defeating the Dark Lord im combat and getting out alive, I suppose.

[@Pa1ad1no]

They would have defeated Sauron and survived, Fingolfin was too skilled. My question is if Fingolfin would be able to resist the ring.

[@TyTyman8]

@@Pa1ad1no agreed

[@nathanlandolt5505]

@@Pa1ad1no Fingolfin was always humble in life and even deferred to Mydros when the council was called to replace Feanor. His grief would certainly motivate him to take it but it's unclear what history he would've experienced in this scenario

[@MrGeek2112]

The whole made-up thing between Elves and Numenoreans in RoP is so unnecessary...as JRRT clearly laid it out, they were envious of the eternal life of the Eldar snd wanted to extended their bliss...and their lifespans shortened as their joy in life decreased. All this other crap is just imported for no...damned...reason.

[@anarionelendili8961]

Tolkien is so good, that he is able to put in quite a lot of personal drama but it fits the story, not distract from it. For example, Eomer and Gimli meeting, arguing about the Lady of the Golden Woods and then resolving their quarrel at the Wedding Feast of Aragorn and Arwen; setup and payback! Eowyn's whole arc is drama. In just a few lines Tolkien is able to paint a very vivid picture what she is going through, internally. Denethor's relationship with Faramir, very much personal drama there, too. But it all fits and advances the story & the characterization. While I did like Kemen's (?) comeback line at Earien, this is high school TV series stuff. A show about the Rings of Power should be about the Rings of Power. This is totally filler and fanfic, with just enough references sprinkled in to make it seem that it happens in Tolkien's world, but the whole story is wrong, the world is not as Tolkien described it. For example, the Isolationalist Numenoreans worried about elves stealing their jobs, whereas in the lore, the Numenoreans had colonies all along Middle-earth's coastline (at the very least, in the western side), extracting resources and tribute to enrich their island. None of it feels authentic. (OK, yeah, Elrond talking about Earendil and just wanting to have a one more discussion with his father was nice. And the Great Wave was very nice to look at.)

[@di3486]

Eowyn’s arc is not drama. It’s basic human psychology, even more, women moral conflicts. I find it extremely profound.

[@sunsin1592]

You're slowly coming around, Neville. You can still save your credibility if you're just honest to yourself. This isn't Tolkien, bro. You're trying way too hard to find logic and reason in this travesty of a show.

[@Susanoo90]

There's one thing I liked about the palantír: the effect when the vision starts.

[@rock_sheep4241]

I had tears in my eyes when Guyladrielle shouted "Black Elves Matter" to the white cis male Orcs and then demanded to speak to their manager. So powerful. So brave and stunning

[@1CASSIODORUS]

By the time of the reign of Tar Muriel, Numenor had a vast colonial empire in Middle Earth with territories far to the south of the “ south lands” . Another thing that is weird - Gil- Galad had strongholds in the vicinity of Mordor? How ? Why? Also , I don’t think the “ southlands” , the region around the Sea of Nurnen , would look that way .

[@qaztim11]

As far as i Remember, the southlands were supposed to look like north africa/middle east. A great opportunity for amazon to use diversity with it making sense in world, but in their rush to be inclusive and modern they whitewashed and wasted a really cool opportunity to make something new

[@kalin1993]

I was sort of okay watching the show for the first 3 episodes. I explained away inconsistencies by pretending this is a bad D&D setting. But this one, sort of lost me, i think it was when they did the romantic/creep subplot setup and the guy preaching to the square of people. It's not so much the content of the scenes, more about their inclusion in the first place. This still feels like exposition before the main thing even begins, and that's not good 4 episodes in.

[@dataman6744]

If a billion dollars was really spent on this flick, then someone is laundering money cause this isn't billion-dollar stuff

[@markmathisen3908]

I'm convinced that the actual show cost about $25 and the rest of the billion dollars went to shill critics to try and persuade people that the gigantic pile of shit this show is is NOT a gigantic pile of shit. 😒

[@dataman6744]

@@markmathisen3908 😂 probono actors and actresses not to mention part-time writters

[@markmathisen3908]

@@dataman6744 Makes sense! I'd hate to think ANYONE paid real money for this writing and performances ha ha 😂

[@DJWHITE_]

Good fantasy is written from love and passion. This is made for a profit. That’s your disconnect in a nutshell.

[@Yuuzhanvon]

Poor fella is forcing himself to watch this cringe of a show. We appreciate your sacrifice.

[@joncampbell5021]

I’m not even watching the show cuz I don’t wanna encourage them to make more garbage with my attention

[@sjmarlowgm]

The villain of the Rings of Power is Galadriel. Prove me wrong.

[@Lothiril]

I have a question about the Palantíri. 🙋‍♀ Especially the UT explains that the Seeing Stones were either used to see to different places, or for communications between the stones. However, Gandalf in LOTR said that the stones could "see small images of things far off and days remote" and that he himself had the desire to "to look across the wide seas of water and of time to Tirion the Fair, and perceive the unimaginable hand and mind of Fëanor at their work, while both the White Tree and the Golden were in flower". This doesn't mean that the Seeing Stones would show visions of a possible future, but at least it indicates that Gandalf thought it could be used to look into the past?

[@Tar-Elenion]

The Palantiri could retain images of what it had 'seen': "This note, very hasty and somewhat obscure, reads in part: ‘They retained the images received, so that each contained within itself a multiplicity of images and scenes, some from a remote past." UT, Palantiri, endnote 18

[@majkus]

@@Tar-Elenion Ah good point. That sounds like one of Tolkien's little retroactive patches precisely to explain Gandalf's remark about looking to the past. Kind of like the sentence in the Appendix that says that the dwarves do not carve their true, secret Khuzdul names even on their tombs-which is a patch to explain why the (Norse, representing the language of Dale) name 'Balin' is on his tomb. In any case, it takes a positive act of will to turn one of the stones to any purpose. This is stated repeatedly even within Lord of the Rings. Just plopping a hand onto the stone will not summon visions. No, the scene is explicitly intended partly for eastereggy fan service, and partly as a callback to Galadriel's mirror-thus her line, "Palantíri show many visions. Some that will never come to pass." That's not what the seeing-stones do; but it does describe the Mirror. The visual effect was imaginative, though, have to admit it.

[@aurochs1]

I'm not even going to watch that disgrace of a show for the sake of criticism or hating on it, it's just playing into Amazon's hands. Peter Jackson's movies had a very impressive production, design, locations and actors, but he sort of set the stage to this point by inflating Tolkien's world into a funny Holywood action thing, made to look cool for the young kids. LOTR was still good and impressive despite all the changes, but then The Hobbit movies were just a joke and now we come to this, where making it "cool" is a blend of ugly design with American politics

[@InkyMuste]

Adar is probably another one of Galadriel's brothers that will remain unnamed, he's like her "dark counterpart". Yes it's awful and yes I hate everything about it, but that's most likely what's going on unfortunately.

[@mattias2576]

This series feels so meh, i really am not invested

[@danguillou713]

Disa is doing magical singing to talk with the rock. That invention is nowhere in the lore, but I think it feels like something that could happen in Tolkiens world. But flashing thigh at Elrond through the high slit in her dress feels really off, even if it’s meant as a distraction. Then it turns out that the ”big secret” they were hiding is just mithril. Which we already know was the basis of Morias wealth and power. It’s a meaningless memberberry, it adds nothing to the plot. Then a collapsing tunnel conflict comes out of nowhere and is resolved off screen. The Dwarves are building Celebrimbors giant superforge, super fast, because he has to have it by the spring dontcherknow. And in the end Durin and Elrond head to Lindon because reasons. That is the one story beat they accomplish through the episode. I don’t understand why they feel they can afford to be this inefficient, even if they don’t care it’s boring. The banter is pretty good though. It’s funny that you should mention Lost, because I think of the whole mystery box and cliffhangers thing as the JJ Abrams school of writing. All the suggestive hints and partial reveals are designed as much to generate fan speculation and publicity as to make the viewer want to watch the next episode. And the central problem with lost is that Abrams didn’t have any answers prepared when he threw in all the question marks, it was all TBD. To Be Decided. And when the show finally tried to deliver on all its promises, it was massively disappointing. Do you know how Sherlock survived jumping off that building? No you don’t, because all the show ever delivered was a recount of some of the real world fan speculation, delivered as in universe fan speculation by some of its minor characters. (Oooh, it’s so meta!) The showrunners for RoP claim they have everything planned at least for the first 3 seasons, but them saying so doesn’t prove it’s true. I suspect that if we could get a look at these plans we’d see a lot of placeholders and TBDs. You’re right about this show having no idea how to do action choreography. Was it you who said that the reason the troll fight is so bad is that they don’t know how to make someone look decently competent and still fail? Absolutely right. They also don’t know how to do more than one person doing action beats at a time. When Galgal overpowered the guards and threw them in her old cell my wife was swearing and asking what just happened, how? Every piece of dialogue between Galgal and Queen Bee is cringe. The only beat that works is the cut from Galgal being insulting and threatening to the court, to her behind bars. My wife and I turned to each other and said ”Thanks, finally!” in one mouth. But the next scene where they talk to each other Queen Bee has apparently forgot her motivation. The ”big secret” they’ve been working towards in this case is just that the King is really old and decrepit. Gee, dial down the drama guys! So the queen decides to give the annoying elf a lift to the mainland rather than killing her. Okay. And then the magic tree looses a bunch of leaves and suddenly the queen is heading an expedition to the mainland. I guess they’re going to Lindon too. Considering how much stuff that needs to happen down the road, I don’t understand why the writers are moving so slow.

[@zoebaggins90]

The writers are apparently disciples of J J Abrams.

[@markmathisen3908]

They're trying to draw it out for 5 seasons. I don't see how this could even get past season 1, unless this really IS just one big money laundering scheme.

[@annienglish4378]

I think that one of the main issues with this is that the showrunners, actors, and anyone else involved seem to think that Middle Earth is OUR earth. You can tell this from the actress who plays Disa and the female director? They want diversity in the show because that is part of our modern world. Tolkien's Middle Earth is not meant to be a precurser to modern earth. They seem to think that Middle Earth is our pre-history, but nowhere is it indicated in Tolkien's work that Middle Earth is our prehistory. The protestations of diversity and mixed races are irrelevant. Tolkien already has diverse groups without adding colour of skin and our own ethnic groups to the mix, and indeed Tolkien wouldn't have felt that was relevant. There are already disparate ethnic groups in Middle Earth without adding colour or diversity as it is in our modern age. Elves, Men, Dwarves, Hobbits, not to mention the diversity between those groups alone, Noldor, Vanya, Teleri, Moriquendi, Wood Elves, Sindar among them. There were tribes of men, the second born, there was also various groups of Hobbits. There were different versions of Dwarves. There is enough diversity in Middle Earth without adding modern racial/ethnic issues to the mix. Why should Lord of the Rings, Rings of Power owe anything to our modern world?

[@robertherring9277]

Ok, considering I put back more than a few drinks before watching any of the series, if I can put aside cannon for Marvel and Star Wars, I can for Tolkien too... I have enjoyed it. Not big on Harfoot line...