How Tolkien Exalts the Humble and Humbles the Proud in Middle-Earth

[@franciscordon9230]

The way Tolkien exalts Humility is one of the most amazing things in his writings, and I love so much of it. Thank you for sharing!

[@Bryan198026]

The thing about Butterburr is that not only is he willing to admit when he messes up but he's usually willing to do whatever he can, however little it may be, to make it right.

[@katherineneville5304]

And Beren is always aware that he is ‘unworthy’ of Luthien. Huan is the one who essentially says that her love for him has made him worthy. This is a very Christian understanding of love: one can never ‘earn’ love, but true love makes both lovers worthy of each other.

[@isomeme]

Regarding Beren, it's worth noting that it's when he greedily or pridefully tries to retrieve a second Silmaril from Morgoth's crown, rather than leaving after getting just the one required by his quest, that the events leading to the partial failure of the quest and Beren's (first) death are set in motion.

[@theNICK_MUAfromBELGIUM]

I concur Theoden's is granted a Hero's Death's I think because he displayed some humility. He does refer to himself as "A lesser son of great sires". It was and remains one of my favourite moments from the book.

[@Enerdhil]

Isn't that bragging at the end, though.😂🤣😆

[@lukasweidinger6839]

“The Lord of the Rings' is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision" (Letters)

[@katherineneville5304]

It was either Lewis or Chesterton who said ‘humility is not thinking less of yourself, but rather thinking about yourself less’ - and so thinking about others more. Sam is the epitome of humility because he always thinks first of what is best for Frodo.

[@Enerdhil]

Someone else posted that quote and said it was from C S Lewis.

[@frankydaulman2291]

As a theme it runs through the entire history of Middle Earth, pride is almost a sure sign of heading down a dark path requiring an abject act of utter humility and contrition to redeem oneself (such as Aule when busted for "creating" dwarves.). Really pleased you chose Barliman Butterbur as an example of humility.

[@Enerdhil]

I think Bill the Pony is a better example of humility. 🤪

[@katherineneville5304]

Bergen does not actually defend his lineage to Thingol - it is Luthien who ‘brags’ about his valour. Beren only speaks up for himself when he's speaks about his love for Luthien, lambasting Thingol for actually putting a price on his daughter. (And it's Melian who gives him the courage to speak.)

[@hglundahl]

Merry Christmas Octave! Happy New Year!

[@gandalfolorin-kl3pj]

My dear mellon Geek: You have indeed plumbed the depths of Tolkien's Catholic underpinning of LotR. This was very well presented and I commend you for your insight where others have been more or less blind. I should also mention, regarding your opening remarks on certain comments you received, that there is superabundant proof of Tolkien's faith as imbued in his works. He gave more than one interview and wrote more than one letter underlining the theology hidden in various types. Sometimes these types were cloaked in Norse tropes, but they are, nevertheless, Catholic types in the end, e.g., Galadriel as a type of the Blessed Virgin in aiding the Fellowship, lembas as a type of the Holy Eucharist, Gandalf as a type of a guardian angel, etc. We would have to ignore not only the text of LotR, but everything written about LotR since its publication to think it has nothing of Tolkien's faith in it. So keep the faith, mellon. Namarie.

[@johnprovatidis1503]

Regarding Sam, one of my favourite moments in the books is in The Return of the King, when during his brief time as Ring-Bearer, he is tempted with visions of Mordor being healed and turning into a great and beautiful garden. However, Sam kept steadfast in his love for Frodo, and also was content with his small garden back in the Shire, and thus resisted the temptation.

[@MWhaleK]

Tolkien was a devote Catholic and the world he created was heavily coded in that direction.

[@hglundahl]

31:10 Other examples? Karhu. Gets himself into plaster by being clumsy about fireworks. Kills LOTS of goblins.

[@christianefiorito3204]

This is such an important Video. Humbleness is the base of the teachings of Jesus Christ

[@Enerdhil]

James 4:10 "Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you." English Standard Version of the Bible, which is what we Anglicans use in our liturgy.✝️😁👍

[@daveperryman291]

Excellent video

[@georg.camerone56]

On reflection the theme of the 'Good Shepherd' appears quite a bit: Gandalf is clearly a shepherd, guiding his flock. Sam becomes a shepherd to guide and aid Frodo. Aragorn, Gimli & Legolas loose their flock, but try their best to recompense (redemption?), and there are a few others. Any thoughts? Love the channel & Best Wishes for 2025 x

[@maaderllin]

Denethor and Theoden are good parallels, but the two brothers Boromir and Faramir are an excellent parallel in which the proud (Boromir) have his desperation to gain stenght in order to protect Gondor gets him to be tempted by the Ring and only gets redeemed through his sacrifice to protect the hobbits, while Faramir remains humble, is never tempted by the Ring and helps Frodo and later gets saved, becomes prince of Ithilien and maries Eowyn.

[@micklumsden3956]

I like your comment, except that describing Boromir as “proud“ is, I think unfair. Time and again as a member of the fellowship, he follows against his better judgement. This takes great humility, particularly as he has been brought up as the heir to the most powerful state in middle earth (other than Mordor). Reading the books, I always feel that he was let down by the other members of the fellowship - particularly Gandalf and Aragorn. Of course, Faramir was a good man. But he was in no way tempted as Boromir was - he only came into contact with the ring for a very short while, for example. In his attempt to save the hobbits, one sees the humility at the heart of Boromir. He knew that the ring was with Frodo; he also knew that he was an important warrior with much to offer against Mordor. Yet he sacrifices himself for two companions, who seem to have almost nothing positive to offer against the forces of darkness.

[@Bryan198026]

I always had the impression that Faramir may have been slightly tempted by the ring even in the book, however he had the wisdom to recognize it for the deceit that it was and that gave him the strength to resist, that and he lacks that driving need for glory and honor that Boromir had.

[@Enerdhil]

I think Rosie is a great example of humility and self-sacrifice.

[@MTB214]

I definitely agree with the Christian themes in The Lord of The Rings. I actually wrote a paper on that in school quoting throughout LOTR.

[@istari0]

I can easily see how someone who only knows The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings would not grasp its Christian underpinnings, particularly if they are not all that religious themselves. It wasn't until I read The Silmarillion that I figured it out.

[@Enerdhil]

Is Eru Ilúvatar even mentioned in LotR or The Hobbit?🤔

[@Enerdhil]

Gildor sang "Elbereth Gilthoniel" in worship of Varda. That song was like a hymn to me.

[@adriennedunne1748]

I believe humility comes from the word humus, i.e., of the soil/earth. To be what you really are meant to be. We undercut ourselves by settling for stuff we think is great, but Gods conception of what we could be is more, not less. Let him build us up. He'll do it better than we could. Thank you for your videos. They're always interesting. 😊

[@coreyander286]

I am afraid the humility theme is diluted by the necessity of so many protagonists being royal or noble. Aragorn and Beren are rangers or outlaws, living ruggedly in wilderness, but they're still heirs to kingdoms or fiefs. Tuor was a slave, maybe the lowest status of any protagonist, but him nominally being heir of Dor-lomin and Ladros after Turin has to count for something, at least in the values of the Edain. Or, even if Thingol or Lorgan look down on Beren and Tuor as disreputable outlaws, the fact that fate chooses _them_ to the exalted humble rather than a Beorian or Hadorian of common blood... it creates an unfortunate implication that _God_ has selected them based on their bloodline. Even with the Hobbits, Sam is pure commoner, but Frodo is as Geek says "landed gentry", the Tooks are Thains, the Brandybucks are something similar. I know, I know, there are all sorts of other reasons the constraints of the stories demand protagonists be of noble bloodline, there are thematic reasons Tolkien wants Elros to have all the Edainic lordly bloodlines mixed with Elvish ones, sociologically the people of the Westlands probably aren't going to embrace a leader without royal blood even if he was just as virtuous as Aragorn, Aragorn needs royal blood to use the palantir properly and to enlist the Dead Men of Dunharrow... it doesn't have to be a statement about the superiority of royals necessarily. But whatever the _intent,_ inevitably readers are going to come away with that _impression._

[@vernandsockey8611]

Humility is about more than just coming from nothing. Aragorn may be the heir to a kingdom, but he doesn't allow his pride in his lineage to get to him, or cause him to treat those around him as if they are of a so-called lesser station than him. Beren also comes from a noble background, but he's not too proud to ask for help from those around him. Tuor would be heir to Dor-Lomin after his cousin's death, as well as held in high esteem by the Elves of Gondolin. So much so, that he's eventually allowed to marry their princess. But he doesn't let pride get to him in the same way Maeglin does. Tuor is content to serve the king and abide by his decisions, while Maeglin feels as if he deserves what he wants because of his high station in life. For an example of a noble character who is still considered heroic, but who's character flaws lead to his downfall, look no further than Túrin. His pride in his family line and claim to lordship of Dor-lomin lead him to make most of his major mistakes. When Beleg tries to bring him home to Doriath, Túrin is too proud to go with him. When the messengers arrive at Nargothrond to warn Túrin of Morgoth's eminent assault, he is too stubborn and prideful to hide, which leads to the kingdom's downfall. Túrin has all the hallmarks of Aragorn, Beren, and Tuor, save for one thing....his refusal to be humble and listen to those around him. His pride won't let him, and that causes not only his downfall, but the downfall of those he is supposed to lead and protect. I'd say the theme of humility is actually strengthened by making many of the protagonists royal or noble, because it points out that humility is an important character trait for anyone, be they of noble status, or a simple gardener.

[@SicSemperTyrannis-lc8fj]

That’s just the mythic tradition Tolkien was working in. It in no way undermines the theme.

[@Chociewitka]

leaving Luthien behind like a child was actually unhumble - Beren thought he can override her own decission, making one himself instead for a being several millennia over his senior and with far more power than him - he was clearly overbearing here

[@brucealanwilson4121]

And he was only able to achieve the quest when she came along.

[@Enerdhil]

​@@brucealanwilson4121 True. However, Luthien could have gotten the Silmaril on her own.

[@neildaly2635]

“Vanity of vanities, sayeth the prophet and all is vanity.” I doubt Tolkien consciously wanted to use Christian themes in his legendarium but it was a big part of his life so it was inevitable it would be present. Hobbits are clearly idealized human beings, they never kill each other on purpose, are not greedy or avaricious (without some exceptions like Lotho Sackville-Baggins. Their chief business was growing food and eating it, if our world was only like that! The Istari were forbidden to rule by force or fear, so taking over Isengard wasn’t necessarily evil until Saruman started breeding armies of orcs “you have unmasked yourself at last” as Gandalf said. Gandalf’s power moves him to show pity clearly a Christian virtue. Saruman is ultimately conquered by “pride and hate.” Imagine an immortal being stooping so low as to try to stab a Hobbit. Denethor should get some sympathy as he was in Aragorn’s shadow from his youth, had a tough act of follow from Echtelion, watched his wife die young, lost his beloved son ETC he was an honorable man mostly in the books not so the films, but given what he saw in the Palantir I’m not sure we can attribute pride solely to his despair. Farmer Maggot is one of my favorite characters of all, his instinct told him to be afraid when he felt “the chill up his spine,” when confronted by the Nazgûl but he was courageous “ I didn’t see why he should come riding over my fields so bold.” I think Tolkien was projecting some of the English character there not aggressive but not yielding in defense of their rights and obligations, respect for the rule of law in this case private property. Hope you had a merry Christmas and have a happy New Year!

[@Don9872]

‘Not aggressive but unyielding in defence’ I think is definitely one of the virtues that a lot of Tolkiens heros have. Reminds me of the Faramir quote of not loving the weapons but loving what they protect.

[@Clyde-S-Wilcox]

Calling Christianity a "big part" of Tolkien's life is like calling Sauron "kind of a bad fellow."

[@micklumsden3956]

Thanks for sticking up for Denothor. Let’s remember that he had done a fantastic job of raising two noble sons - both of whom, in my opinion were humble. No man is an Island. Perhaps it may be considered a failure of Gandalf that Denothor had become isolated. When we are isolated, we are more vulnerable to error. If any of us had had to carry the weight of grief and responsibility that he had to carry, I think we’d have done no better, and probably a great deal worse.

[@istari0]

In letter 142, one sentence reads: "The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision." I'd say that means he did put Christian themes in it consciously, even if it wasn't done at first.

[@Enerdhil]

In the Bible, you can read the word "mercy" all throughout the Scriptures. Jesus definitely shows pity when he healed people and fed them. Maybe Joshua can make a video of the Christian concept of pity or mercy in the Legendarium.

[@brucealanwilson4121]

Doesn't Buddhism also emphasize humility?

[@Keffinated]

Not to mention Shinto, Taoism, and Islam. Even the Greco-Roman and Northern mythologies extoled humility and warned against pride.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@Keffinated they warned against hubris, but I don’t think that’s quite the same thing. And some of the Greek philosophers may have promoted humility but I don’t think their religions did, though I’m open to evidence to the contrary.

[@Enerdhil]

How can you be humble if you are self-absorbed?

[@KevDaly]

I think humiliy is common to the Abrahamic religions as a whole, but point taken. It's notable that a lot of people either through ignorance or ideology bend over backwards to pretend that Eru Ilúvatar is not the Christian God.

[@Clyde-S-Wilcox]

No. It isn't.

[@brucealanwilson4121]

@@Clyde-S-Wilcox Prove it. From the text.

[@Enerdhil]

​@@brucealanwilson4121 Well, the Old Testament Ilúvatar wiped out Númenor, while the New Testament Eru resurrected Gandalf. Okay?

[@brucealanwilson4121]

@@Enerdhil Illucatar had good reason for doing what he did.

[@hglundahl]

24:37 "you don't advertise all that" Unless advertisement is needed to get business going ... A new baker making sure everyone knows who he is is not proud. Nor is a writer in need of an editor who advertises he has some production cadence and some production already done and some readership.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

No, but that’s different than advertising that you’re just an awesome guy lol

[@jayt9608]

Those who were humbled from their pride: Gimli Theoden Eowyn Eomer Arwen Aragorn Galadriel Gan-bury-Gan Butterbur Treebeard Gandalf Elrond Boromir Faramir Frodo Merry Pippin Lobelia Sackville-Baggins Those destroyed by Pride: Balin, King of Moria Sauron Saruman Witch-King of Angmar Denethor Lotho Sackville-Baggins Ring-wraiths Mouth of Sauron Gothmog Durin's Bane Exalted by humility: Merry Pippin Samwise Gamgee Frodo Gandalf Eyowyn Theoden Aragorn Faramir Beregond Humble characters of sufficiently balanced humility and pride so that they were never harmed: Gaffer Gamgee Hama the doorwarden Tom Bombadil Fatty Bolger

[@ZephyrOptional]

Tolkien was a devoted Catholic but everyone interprets their faith in their own way. I recommend all to carefully read letter 153 to a Catholic bookseller who provided a “Catholic” critique of LOTR. Tolkien’s unsent response is a poignant, (unedited) deep dive into how Tolkien felt about attempting to read too much Christianity into his story. True there are big beautiful Christian themes as our esteemed host celebrates, but there are also great pagan & eastern themes like the virtuous suicide of Aragorn & the reincarnation of the Durin’s line to name a few. Read the letter! There are very few directly Christian characters. Tolkien says Varda, Lady of the Stars is The Virgin Mary, not Galadriel. Galadriel is a sinner like us all.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Aragorn doesn’t commit suicide.

[@ZephyrOptional]

@ like the Numenorian kings before him, he laid down his own life at the moment of his choosing, specifically while still in health, “yet at last he felt the approach of old age” . “For if I will not go now, then I must soon go perforce (necessity by force of circumstance).” “Then going to the House of the Kings in the Silent Street, Aragorn laid him down on the long bed that had been prepared for him.” Arwen pleads for him to “Stay yet for a while”. “Now therefore, I will sleep”.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@ZephyrOptional suicide is the taking of one’s own life. Aragorn didn’t kill himself, he allowed himself to die at his natural time rather than (as many corrupted kings) holding onto life *beyond* their natural span, which resulted in their being “unmanned” (which I take to mean being deprived of reason and will).

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@ZephyrOptional ‘As Queen of Elves and Men she dwelt with Aragorn for six-score years in great glory and bliss; yet at last he felt the approach of old age and knew that the span of his life-days was drawing to an end, long though it had been. Then Aragorn said to Arwen: ‘“At last, Lady Evenstar, fairest in this world, and most beloved, my world is fading. Lo! we have gathered, and we have spent, and now the time of payment draws near.” ‘Arwen knew well what he intended, and long had foreseen it; nonetheless she was overborne by her grief. “Would you then, lord, before your time leave your people that live by your word?” she said. ‘“Not before my time,” he answered. “For if I will not go now, then I must soon go perforce. And Eldarion our son is a man full-ripe for kingship.” Note he says “not before my time.” Later he talks about giving back the gift (of long life), implying it was only the Numenoreans who could do this, but it was a voluntary surrender of a loan, not a willful ending of their life contrary to their natural span.

[@ZephyrOptional]

@ yes, we’re reading the same text for sure. You have eloquent vocabulary to make a distinction between “laying down one’s own life” and the self inflicted act of suicide but they are both definitively the voluntarily act of giving up the ghost. Eru doesn’t distinguish, Turin’s suicide is also not a sin but in completely different context. If the story of Turin was translated by the Church (rather than Tolkien) Turin would suffer the consequences for committing a damnable “mortal sin” and never portrayed as redeemable. This leads to another important non Christian theme. No Hell! Just a place where you weep with Nienna until your pain and sorrow turns to wisdom and your soul returns to Eru. Some say Turin will even return to finally cast down evil with his black sword Gurthang, but much like Revelations, the Dagor Dagorath is likely apocryphal.

[@Enerdhil]

Smëagol was humble to an extent, but Gollum was arrogant

[@iainmc9859]

Totally agree that Tolkien did try and raise up the humble within the confines of his own self created world. I can't agree that Christianity is fairly unique amongst the larger world religions in emphasising humility. I'd probably say that Buddhism probably has a greater emphasis on it as an essential quality, although I don't disagree that it is ( or should be) central to Christian behaviour. I won' t list the number of times that proud men have subverted this as Christian humility is the exception not the rule. Congratulations on getting through this vlog without saying 'devout Catholic' throughout👍 I hope you had a Merry Christmas and have a Happy Hogmanay. Peace and Good Will to All.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Did I say Christianity was “ fairly unique amongst the larger world religions?”

[@iainmc9859]

​@@TolkienLorePodcastOkay, you said 'almost unique amongst the world religions ..', I paraphrased. The point I made still stands.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

@iainmc9859 no it doesn’t. The vast majority of religions over history have not treated humility as a virtue. Some of the larger ones still practiced today do, but there are many others like Viking, Greek, and Roman religions that didn’t.

[@iainmc9859]

Here's the point where I say, and to quote myself ' I can't agree that Christianity is fairly unique amongst the larger world religions in emphasising humility'. You can take from that I mean extant world religions, which I presume you also meant in the vlog, and not one from the ancient world; which is why I gave Buddhism as an example,although technically it might also pass as an ancient religion. I'm not here to criticise Christianity (Catholic or otherwise) but I don't think you can honestly say it has any monopoly or unique claim on humility, regardless of the many individual Christians (Catholic or otherwise) that are.

[@Enerdhil]

I guess I'm 4 days late and a dollar short.😅

[@Griggs1981]

Silmarillion is abit biblical

[@georg.camerone56]

Anyone who can't see Christianity/Catholicism in LOTR either has not really read the books, or may have lived under a rock somewhere?

[@Enerdhil]

Or they may not be Christians or know the Bible...🧐

[@David.Bowman.]

Not sure I’ve got anything useful to add. Maybe that Bombadil and Goldberry are a prime example of humility. Both displaying the kinds of powers that people are fighting wars over yet doing seemingly nothing useful with them! Just existing.

[@Enerdhil]

What humility? Did Tom Bombadil show humility to the Hobbits?🤔

[@David.Bowman.]

@@EnerdhilI’d say so. Without going too deep into “whos and whats” their lifestyle is comparatively modest. No towers stretching into the sky; just a low roofed house. No mead halls or great feasts; a kitchen table with bread, butter some berries and herbs and water. No animals servants like Beorn; they personally serve the Hobbits, even making little slippers for them all etc. In some ways I think that’s part of the point of them, to have a little bit of everything without it being ostentatious and to happily share it when they have guests.

[@philharwood9971]

No topic is ever a dead topic on the internet lol

[@giulioaprati338]

Boromir and Faramir

[@micklumsden3956]

Both humble and brave. But only one made the ultimate humble step of laying down his life for his friends.

[@robertherring9277]

Very observant! Great message for Hanukkah, too.

[@KohanKilletz]

0:54 i'm gonna stop you there. There are a whole lot of religions that are based on humility effect I think religion is almost universally based on humility and the acceptance that there are beings that significantly dwarf in power any human being. Islam is certainly a good example since it's all about submission to the will of God. and the protagonist of Islam, the prophet Mohammed was a much more humble man or at least was portrayed as more humble compared to Jesus who was portrayed as extremely arrogant in the gospels. What makes Christianity unique is not the lack of arrogance, but more the lack of ambition. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth seems less as an exultation to be humble, but rather an exultation of passivity. do nothing in this world and only chase what's in the next. But that's just my two cents.

[@henrywolf5332]

Let me stop you right there, Christianity puts violence in its right place, Mohammedans use it as a tool for expansion in its texts, The lords word does not promote this, deus vault

[@Don9872]

Yes the totally peaceful prophet who had an entire tribe of Jews enslaved and put to death right after they’d helped him dig a trench to defend from an invading force was super humble and chill 😂

[@Clyde-S-Wilcox]

With all goodwill Sir your take is poor. Humility may not be uniquely Christian but it's nowhere near as universal as you think.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

Can you think of a single polytheistic religion which makes humility a virtue? Or in which one of the gods is humble?

[@KohanKilletz]

@ yes I can think of several. For example, in traditional Buddhist and Hindu practices, it was common for even the gods to be subject to scrutiny. Even the lowliest insect could scrutinize the highest deities. Another example of this is founded in traditional Chinese religion, to quite humorous effect. In the first seven chapters of journey to the West it features the very haughty gods of heaven basically being toyed around with by Sun Wukong, the monkey King. this would've necessarily been a reversal of roles like the role reversal, you talked about where the first on earth are last in heaven. There is human nature about loving, underdogs, and mythology is filled with underdogs.

[@NickBR57]

Oh yes, I've noticed how humble the bishops and cardinals are in their palaces. Throughout history popes and archbishops have not tried to take power and oppress people have they? Humanists are more humble. Of course, Tolkien as a Christian did build it in as one of his precepts (because he wasn't one of the powerful in his church but a real believer in the principles) so it does run through all his works, not just LotR. But as to the idea that humility is uniquely Christian, that's nonsense.

[@Don9872]

I’m not Christian but the idea of sin is one of the most humility based concepts there is. Just because people who are part of a powerful institution are corrupt shitbags, which happens in every organisation like that regardless of supposed beliefs or ideas, that doesn’t mean the religious ideas don’t exist all of a sudden.

[@Clyde-S-Wilcox]

There is nothing humble about humanism.

[@iainmc9859]

Nick I'm going to agree and disagree. Although I agree those at the head of the Catholic Church (I'm presuming you mean Catholic) have not always been prime examples of humility, neither have Kings, Emperors etc. I think you're really meaning to point out abuses of authority, but don't let me put words in your mouth. I've known some pretty arrogant humanists agnostics and atheists in my time as well that have precious little toleration for others. I agree that Christianity doesn't have any sort of monopoly on humility as a key element of its ethos.Generally I find it is the individual that is humble not the background they come from, judging others as individuals without getting to know them is fraught with pitfalls.

[@TolkienLorePodcast]

I didn’t say humility was uniquely Christian, I said it was *almost* uniquely Christian. And what the religion values is not undermined by what some of those who claim to be its practitioners do.

[@brucealanwilson4121]

Abusus not tollit usus.

[@phoule76]

It's clearly an Islamic text.

[@brucealanwilson4121]

@@phoule76 How so?

[@phoule76]

@@brucealanwilson4121 It was ironic; I'm a troll.

[@joemccallister4883]

Lol

[@Enerdhil]

​@@phoule76 Nice of you to humble yourself and reveal your intent. 🤪