Tom Taylor’s Nightwing Sucks! Part 1

[@richadoruisuthegod3674]

Not a Nightwing fan but I am glad to see more discussion vids from actual comic fans that goes into detail about their opinions without being hateful

[@skaknight9291]

Somebody else understands the struggle with not having a good nightwing run in years

[@fedweezy4976]

I agree with some of your points with the extra characters and pacing, but idk, i feel like a lot of this anger is just not deserved imo. This is the run that got me into comics. On Melinda: shes Grayson's half-sister in order to be more of a foil to Grayson. They both have the same compassion and both lost their father to Zucco. Dick just went the route of super-heroics while she went the route of politics. They didnt need to do that and i get why you dont like it but lets not act like it there was no narrative purpose. On the politics: are we really calling anything with a political message an agenda now? Seriously, this seems kinda out there. I am in no way disagreeing that Taylor is coming into the run with a political slant, but why is that a bad thing? Tons of comics and books have an obvious political message and we dont say they have an "agenda." I dont agree with Taylor's politics fully but let's at least engage with his ideas instead of dismissing them as an "agenda"? You clearly dont mind when Dixon brought in politics (that you agree with) when you talked about the kid that breaks into Dick's apartment, so why do you care when Taylor it? He uses Nightwing's idea that everyone deserves a safety net and uses that to give nightwing the motivation to create a public safety net, I dont think the politics are a bad fit for someone with that ideal (you even say that yourself). Hes also clearly not taking shots at Bruce here. Alfred also had billions and helped nobody with it but Dick names the whole foundation after him, so he doesnt think that sitting on your money is a morally wrong thing to do. If anything your reaction is assuming an argument Taylor never really made. Furthermore, many authors have made it clear that bruce wouldve been batman with or wothout the money, absolute batman just released and it takes this position if you need a recent comic to go by so your argument there doesnt really hold up imo. You say that dick is the most selfless, compassionate, and giving people in comics but you also say that him establishing a foundation is out of character? He doesnt need money do be nightwing but Taylor wanted to see how nightwing would react to getting all this money. I dont really see how thats bad for his character. Dick isnt saying these issues can be fixed with only money either, its clearly shown that corruption will get in the way and thats why Dick continues to be Nightwing and also works with mayor Zucco. In fact blockbuster would've completely dismantled the foundation before it even started if Dick didnt stop him as Nightwing. Its also a political argument to say that money doesnt help (when used correctly). I dont wanna get into it but not everybody agrees with your politics there, and thats what that is. On Dick Grayson being a philanthropist: i think you arent taking Alfred's death into perspective here, since its clearly used as a motivation for him doing this and the foundation is in his name. Nightwing (at least in this run) sees Alfred as a major influence in his life, and his death proves to him that superheroics arent enough. Also, his time as ric grayson showed him that while yes, he did save lives, he didnt save Bludhaven, the city was still just as corrupt as when he started. That was his issue, and its why Barbra's argument wasnt effective. I was gonna write more but it feels like a lot of your problems just come from the fact that Taylor had politics you disagree with. You say politics dont belong in superhero comics (which i wholeheartedly disagree but thats another discussion) but you clearly didnt mind Dixon bringing in politics. If you disagree with Taylors politics, fine, but I came here to listen to writing critiques and I did not get that after the first 10 or so minutes.

[@brandenaustin37]

I wholeheartedly agree here. Your comment was spot on. I thought this person was a fan, but she seems more so a fan of nightwing on a superficial level. Her comments on politics being in media , superheroes media specifically being a bad thing was also an immediate red flag for me. Chuck dixon is a deeply conservative and religious man and did not hesitate to put his political views into the books he wrote during his time at DC. She didn't seem to mind his politics being weaved through the story because she agreed with them, but anything other than that isn't allowed, apparently .I wish youtube would stop recommending me these anti woke adjacent channels who are just so miserable and angry at everything. I loved Tom Taylors run on Nightwing, sure it had a few issues here and there but broadly it was a damn good book and it succeeded at feeling up lifting and inspiring which a good nightwing book should always do. Media literacy truly is dead here in the US

[@fedweezy4976]

@brandenaustin37 it's also not like politics is particularly new to comics, superman was a defender of the oppressed pre-crisis and he still is in many renditions. One of the earliest stories has him punching landlords. Hell, superman fought the KKK. I'll never understand the idea that politics aren't "allowed" in media, especially one like comics.

[@brandenaustin37]

Yeah, superhero comics have always been pretty left-leaning in their storytelling. Not always, but usually. When channels complain and say that "politics have no place in this genre" or that real-world issues shouldn't be tackled, what they really mean is that they don't want politics they disagree with to be in comics. And these real-world issues need to be faced and solved in a way that aligns with a more conservative approach and solution.

[@Agent-bp3tm]

I agree with all your points, very frustrating at times. I started to collect this run and read it was because of the art of Bruno Redondo. Great to see fans on reviews of Nightwing. Thanks enjoyed watching your review

[@PopculturedDSun]

I feel like nightwing showing more of these cringe moments shows him evolving. He’s comfortable of expressing vulnerability especially to Batman. Because he doesn’t want to end up like Batman but I also believe him saying directly I love you dad was him helping his father figure open up even more. I mean Bruce during this run was isolated,untrusting, and paranoid. Still lost after losing Alfred spiraling and freaking making FAIL SAFE. I respect your views and your dislike on certain things on this run. But for Dick to feel out of character i mean he’s finally not hateful teen resenting Bruce. This man is grown he’s experience a lot and now he’s reassured. I’m also delighted too that babs and dick are back together. I just like how he’s opening up more with different aspects of himself through this run and shows how much he’s change. Being the pillar of the DC universe. The Man who is fit not only to lead The Titans but the Justice League. From my perspective Dick having these character moments lifts him up and soars higher even more in relatability because all kids wanted to be like Robin and end up paving their own path like Nightwing. Now I can’t wait for more wise and maybe even happy Dick Grayson. Great Video hope the next run can give you more for our guy night wing 💙

[@baki484]

Failsafe is something he was creating over the years.

[@matchu5612]

Disagreed with some of this, but I definitely understood where you were coming from especially with the horrid pace and overload of characters and heroes being around. I agree about the whole NW/Oracle thing finally getting back together. It's about time. (I liked Haley the dog. Think it'd be a shame if she were just dropped from the book suddenly. Sucks that you don't feel the same, I get it though) I enjoyed the beginning half of Taylor's run and then it sort of faltered and dragged on for me afterwards. But overall, it stayed on my pull list and was enjoyable; It had interesting ideas, the executions were lacking though like you said. I have high hopes for Watters in this coming run to really deliver with Nightwing

[@bryantirva6679]

I really enjoyed this run, but I see where you're coming from. Personally I thought this run was just really fun and a nice breath of fresh air not only after the Ric Grayson arc but for the character of NIghtwing in general. As someone already stated in the comments, we see a good amount of growth for Nightwing in this run and it's not necessarily bad. The panels with Nightwing and Bruce seem to try and grow the relationship between Bruce and Dick and also seems. I also think that Tom Taylor does a good job showing that Nightwing's friends are also there for him as well and are happy to support him, but I do agree that it was a lot of characters to add in. The relationship between Dick and Babs was an absolute delight to see throughout this story as well! I kinda wish that it wasn't so easy to figure out who Heartless was and that the character became a larger problem for Nightwing and potentially become a staple villain of his, but overall I'm still happy with the story. I also absolutely loved the artwork from Bruno Redondo and all the easter eggs throughout the arc. While this could be said for every comic book, I think without Redondo's art the story wouldn't have worked as well. There are many points throughout this run we see Redondo poke fun at things that have occurred throughout Batman media which helps establish the tone that this is meant to be a fun story. I'm not going to say this arc was perfect because its not, but I think there are some aspects from this arc that shouldn't be forgotten and can be something that fans can look back at and think "Yeah, that was a fun run!" I like the points that you made though and some of these points I didn't really think of while I was listening (thank you Comicstorian, R.I.P. Benny) to the story. I also really appreciate why you disliked it other than the it breaks character argument that I've seen on reddit!

[@TheFortressofficial]

Amazing video!!! I totally agree on all the points, Bruno's covers and art saved this run and it made it look way better than it actually was. I'm eager to see pt 2

[@TheArchiveOfSecrets]

So Taylor's run literally did the "why doesn't Batman just give his money to charity" but with Nightwing? And I agree, Bruce and Dick should not be so touchy-feely. The emotional moments with the Bat-family are best when subtle. Great video!

[@treymykel]

I mean honestly Tom Taylor's run for Nightwing just made me depressed a little bit cuz it's just like damn I want this one to be good I wish it was good but it's just like wasn't that great it felt a lot of force nonsense I hated the fact of the reveal of his half-sister because it makes both get Grayson and Batman look like idiots for them not to know it about that just makes no sense I didn't like the fact that he turned the prison into the Titans Tower that was weird like I don't mind him building the Titans Tower in bloodhaven which does make sense but I didn't like the fact that he turned to prison into there I didn't like the fact that it was a will they want there with Barbara Gordon but then in the Titans you have more moments between him and Starfire which technically it should be Starfire because there was really nothing wrong with Starfire and did Grace's relationship as Barbara Gordon has been passed around with the bat family for too long to the point where I don't want her with no one from the bat family at all because in her run she was dating other people and not thinking about Dick Grayson so no thanks I'd rather get racing a Starfire get together so that way we can have nightstar in the main continuity I really wanted him to finish off that heartless thing him being a billionaire was kind of dumb especially with the way he's doing money and the way he let them people just take stuff or whatever I don't know I just was not pleased with this run and then when they try to retroactively add all of this history between him and Jonathan Kent like no that never happened so I don't know The run was boring honestly it hasn't been a good Nightwing run since Dick Grayson got shot in the head during DC rebirth which was a great Nightwing run I really wish we can get back to that or the run before the new 52 started and before being racing became Batman in post crisis but it is what it is hopefully another writer will come and do something better with this run

[@PsilentThunderer]

Taylor and Redondo made me come back to DC. Since the new 52, rebirth garbage I dropped 12 of 13 books because they ruined it for me with too many revamps and then they saw they were losing people so they brought back 70% of the history and kept 30% new and then they changed it over and over again. I kept Wonder Woman since I have collected that since I was 4 years old. This run on Nightwing had the writing and the art to make it a perfect book. I stopped at Taylor and Redondos end because I dont think anyone can ever do Dick justice like this.

[@R3dmc7]

37:57 that's not what fridging is Fridging is in cases like the killing Joke where they did something to Barbara that effected her character in the long run in a story that wasn't even hers, they never focused on how that effected her during the story and only cared about how it affected batman. And when they kill a female character a cheap un impactful death sometimes even off screen just for the male. And what Barbara said in that panel was simply a joke.

[@kaison12205]

Dixon’s run also had pretty mediocre execution in retrospect I loved that run when I first read it but god damn after a reread that shit aged like milk. The art is definitely interesting and while a little ugly was dynamic and fun and the action was dope but the writing made me cringe so hard and it really was that last bit of the 90s dark age. But I really don’t think Taylor’s run is close to the worst Nightwing run I think it’s overhyped but far from what I consider a bad run for a character who’s had a lot of bad runs in his 40 years of existence

[@matthewschwartz6607]

What do you think are his best runs? Did you read the Tomasi run?

[@kaison12205]

@ I like the renagade story arc from Devin Grayson I like a lot of the ideas and action scenes from the Dixon era. Like the atmosphere of bludhaven and the intensity felt in those first 50 issues the first blockbuster confrontation feels brutal and threatening. (There’s a reason he’s the only rogue that stuck) The Alfred’s return one shot from knightfall is really good for its era considering it’s the 90s I think it’s writing isn’t too edgy and the way it shows Alfred and dicks relationship feels perfect and feels more relevant after the Taylor run Marv Wolfman made some choices I don’t agree with but I always love seeing him write dick as he was instrumental in his development into nightwing so his run is more good than bad. Tomasi surprised me and I do think he’s better here than in his Batman run plus it’s the Nightwing arc that leads into battle for the cowl I think Seely who did the first rebirth run was quite good kinda similar to Taylor I think there’s some lack of depth and pushing the character but I think it’s a lot of fun and I do feel more tension than the Taylor run I even like Taylor’s run more than I dislike it. But the truth is I think nightwing’s best solo books/books where he is a main character ironically aren’t nightwing books. The 03 outsiders (I think it’s 03) is really strong And Grayson along with Morrison’s Batman are the two best books that have dick as the protagonist. Like I never thought I’d like secret agent Nightwing but fuck, it just works And the Morrison’s Batman run is iconic and some of the best Batman in history it’s a full circle moment and honestly I think that it ties dick and Bruce’s story up perfectly and would have been an undisputed masterpiece across all comics if the new 52 didn’t happen and we actually got the original court of owls storyline (dick was supposed to be the Batman for the court of owls) And a special shout out to mark waid’s worlds finest that man can cook some fun shit

[@kaison12205]

@@matthewschwartz6607 oh lmao you mentioned the tomasi run Yea I did and I thought it was far better than his Batman run that’s for damn sure One of my favorites

[@Freindlyneigbourhoodspidey]

Honestly the highlight was fear state purely for Robbi Rodriguez artwork

[@GrimdeathGriffin]

I was curious where nightwing books were going as I got early issues and New 52 issues of the characters but never felt there was a big event story or felt the books were going anywhere with the character or was hanging on from Teen Titans/Young Justice show popularity. Didn't understand why Tim Drake became Batman Beyond or even Terry in some cases.

[@srinivasanbalaji4867]

Tom taylor always had a hard on for hating bruce Especially in injustice

[@Kkchill44]

This is the best nightwing run lol

[@txtayler7086]

Naur

[@Kkchill44]

@ yep

[@txtayler7086]

@@Kkchill44bro likes tumbler fanfiction nightwing 💀

[@Kkchill44]

@ nah I like a story you know what everyone likes it’s also good they gave him more depth but you probably like the story where nightwing gets SA or dies and becomes Rick

[@txtayler7086]

@ ur argument is to mention nightwings other worst story’s 💀 yah no bud those can be bad and this can be bad the story isn’t focused and they don’t treat nightwing properly they make him fan fiction nightwing instead of nightwing

[@srinivasanbalaji4867]

Mam that speech from the fundraiser felt as cringe as batmans second death speech in gotham knights

[@mosestnen7275]

for me the power scaling is bad , this version of nightwing is weak. bro solved 0 difficult cases. bro is kindda incompetent . he didnt need a sister.

[@srinivasanbalaji4867]

Btw whatvdid tou think of gotham war?