Kafmasino One First Look. Decent Alternative? (not the MiiCoffee Apex, or Turin Legato)

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Check out the machine here: kafmasino.com/

[@KOZ-k1p]

This is Super! After The Decent other manufacturers are starting to adopt this technology to control shots! Can’t wait for other Italian big names start to apply these innovations !

[@a.rincon2748]

Hi Tom. A manufacturer asking you for an unbiased review is awsome!! Glad to see your channel is growing, well done.

[@saocir]

wow, you channel has grown! congrats. I remember when you had a couple hundred just a few months ago. Keep up the nice content!

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Hey, thanks for such nice words! 👍

[@MrColumbo]

Thanks for the review! Did you get the information that room temperature water is mixed with hot water to control the temperature directly from the Kafmasino Team? I am asking since they do not mention that on their website

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Yes, this is what the design team told me about their fluid mixing too ok reach the desired temp.

[@hash5191]

@TomsCoffeeCorner Need your honest opinion as I hold it high in the coffee world - is the Kafmasino better than the Sage Dual Boiler, does it have the same temperature consistency and overall cafe quality coffee taste?

[@TomJones-tx7pb]

You did not mention the portafilter size. BTW I have recently been pulling great shots with a Flair58, but would be pulling even better single shots if it was a Flair54, It would be nice to have a 51mm portafilter that fit into a 58mm grouphead for pulling single shots.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Hey Tom, this is a standard 58mm portafilter. I would like to try a Flair too, and compare it to a machine like this one. How are you enjoying the haptic, manual process of the Flair?

[@TomJones-tx7pb]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner With the heated chamber it is really easy to get the temperature and flow rate to be whatever you want. Not locked into a specific grind size as you are with the semi-autos as you can pressure surf. Perfect pre-infusion every time. No descaling or cleanup of machine. Time to heat is just the time to boil a kettle of water. The manual part is really nice. I am currently foaming my milk using a Bodem, so no extra water is added there.

[@JasonMFarrow]

I also believe that in the near future there will be many more of these IoT or "connected" coffee machines. What's changed is the ability to interact and modify the coffee brewing in real time using technology rather than human (in-)expertise. The Decent DE-1 was the first and has paid the price (as to the consumers) to lead the innovation. Now Kafmasino are next to join in and hopefully, as you say, provide the same experience at a cheaper price point. I would expect this to scale up towards professional units, if not for the mainstream mass-market coffe (Costa, Starbucks et al), but particularly for the speciality coffee shops, in the next 3- to 5-years.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Hey Jason, it would be really cool to see this technology trickle down over the upcoming years. Actually, I have seen some fancy 3 group espresso machines with such graphed displays already a few years ago. But they were being operated by indifferent baristas at a hotel... Thanks for your comment! Tom

[@dingnextstop]

Hi Tom, the shape is very similar to the Gaggia Classic, it’s a bit OTT tech wise for me as I prefer a more manual hands on set up, great vid anyhow so well done..👍🏻

[@Alex-k5q7c]

This is a Chinese Gemilai CRM3007G espresso machine, but without a tablet, the same one is sold on Amazon by the Miicoffee company, and the guys from Cafmasino simply added functionality to it like the Decent de1.

[@RandyLittleStudios]

They added more then just software or they couldn’t control pressure and flow rate via the app. You would have to manually use the set screw to change the flow rate.

[@KristianMortensen]

So interessant to see the first post-decent machine. Very promising with that price point

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Thanks Kristian for your feedback. I agree, it is a lot of machine for that price.

[@k1ck82]

Great video Tom. Keep going, like your channel.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Thanks, Ivan! 👍

[@DaveCorbey]

It might be "operational" after 2 minutes but the portafilter will be stone cold and espresso temps will be down. You wouldn't want to pull a shot until the group and portafilter are fully warmed up. Drop a Scace II on it and you will soon find out the true time from switch on to shot production.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I wish I had a Scace. That would have been sweet to test with. Of course you are right, that the longer a machine has to warm up, the better the shots will be,

[@willo7979]

Great integration of technology many leading manufacturers do not have.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

I agree. This is a sweet machine to experiment with. 👍

[@DaedalusEH]

Can you do a teardown of the machine (if kafmasino allows it)? Have they added off the shelf control boards (eg arduino, raspberry pi), pump etc. The whole concept and price sounds too good to be true, but I wish them good luck , will need it together with loads of work to achieve the advertised result . Really looking forward to your full functional review.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Hey Emmanouil, if Kafmasino would like me to do a video on the internals, I would be happy to do that in the future. For now, I have returned the machine however. If you check their website, you will see some pictures of the internals. kafmasino.com/one/ Cheers!

[@miguelescobedo81]

My big question mark would be how thermo and pressure stable this machine is, and accurate its readings are. Decent made a huge investment to achieve this (and hence it is priced accordingly). That would be an awesome topic for next videos! 😅

[@KoolKatKaleb]

What do you think is so advanced about the Decent tech to achieve flawless stability when compared to alternatives? The price point of the Decent is based on supply and demand… not the tech nor hardware.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Hey Kaleb, good questions. Now I don't know how much margin the Decent sells at, but they might have a pretty high initial investment to recuperate. Their pricing strategy may have to do with amortizing said investment. Check out this cool interview with the Decent owner: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXykY3aFf7enbK8

[@KoolKatKaleb]

@@TomsCoffeeCorner I agree, the pricing is aligned with John's investment decisions. John reveals in the video the non-ideal investment decisions made, which are unrelated to the product we see from Decent today. I think it does a disservice to the community when we are naively skeptical to competitive products, primarily due to the mysticism of the tech involved. Products with price points like Kafmasino are a step in the right direction, but I think we still have far to go.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

@@KoolKatKaleb Hey Kaleb, thanks for your thoughtful comment. We shall see. I think the Kafmasino will offer a good entrance gate to enter into espresso nerdiness. The only other thing I know that offers such control over the variables at a low price is the Gaggiuno (spelling) mod, and that looks very complicated to do.

[@isabelpadilla9046]

Good review. This espresso machine looks very interesting.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Thanks Isabel! I agree it is a cool machine...stay tuned to the full functional test video, coming up on Monday.

[@A266509]

Love the accessibility it is clear the Tradeoff over the decent de1 but can’t deal with the Gaggia inspiration case (is more about the execution) … how powerful was the steamer ? Great review first time I came across your channel

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Hey Dante! The steamer is great. Reeeally easy to get the milk rolling for a great texture. Looks will be subjective. If I would plop down a decent on our counter, not sure what the misses would think about that. She likes this design though, even though she hates the looks of the GCP.

[@ianyorke2617]

Excellent review, really interesting machine that if priced correctly, is going to receive a lot of interest 👍

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Thanks Ian. I agree this at the right price point could be intriguing. I for one, quite enjoyed using it.

[@tsmspace]

maybe you can use some magnetic tape to allow you to hang your magnetic tools. The wifi should work past some small bits of magnetic tape, it just can't work while there's a barrier occupying the entire space between. If you want to take the tape off later on, steel should be easy to clean, and the tape magnets don't need to be that particularly powerful, since the magnets in your tool will have the majority of the magnetic strength, as they are intended to work with normal metal. (or, maybe you can buy little bars of steel and use double sided sticky tape to mount the little bars)

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Hey that's not a bad idea, thanks!

[@omgg4031]

Basically grabbed a 200€ coffee machine from Alibaba and stick a controller board with a esp32 chip for the bluetooth connection. Considering the coffee machine already comes with the majority of the sensors, you'd then add a bluetooth scale and build an app for it. 1600€ for is way too much.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Well, I am not in cahoots with this company, other than reviewing their product for free. But as an engineer myself, I can tell you that it is not as easy as you think. Executing ideas never is, as you always run into unforeseen snags. Check their website. They have been working on this for a few years already. Cheers.

[@phillipphan1394]

does the tablet come with it for the price?

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

No

[@Mannetjie007]

Thanks for the review. This machine is very expensive, though.

[@PaulLemars01]

Your channel is definitely picking up 'steam' Tom, congratulations. As to this machine I think they're missing the design aesthetic completely. The Kafmasino looks very similar to a Lelite Elizabeth and I think that's a mistake. This kind of super enthusiast machine needs to have some kind of design language statement about it. The people behind Decent could have made their machine look very normal but they didn't for a reason. There's a premium value to 'funky' design. The La Marzocco GS3 looks the way it does to make a statement. I suspect this machine will go for $2,500US and I question whether the normal design language will be a hindrance to its sales. even so, I'm still looking forward to your in-depth review.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Hey Paul, thanks for your sentiment! I don't want to speak for the makers of this product, but I do believe their salient aim is to be able to provide this level of espresso experimentation at an economical price. But I agree with you, that the GS3 sure is a looker. I think this machine will enter the market below the price you mention. Orders should start on Monday, so we shall see. I am dropping the second video on Monday by the way. Cheers, Tom

[@JasonMFarrow]

Partner acceptance factor has nothing to do with coffee but is *so* important when buying new tech that's newer and more expensive than the coffee tech you already have.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Haha, that's right Jason. The kitchen is a high traffic, shared area, so aesthetics and ergonomics have to please both partners. 👍

[@s96822]

looks like they used a Lelit PL92T then modified it.

[@matthiasneumann6775]

Die Maschine ist ja wie die miicoffee. Warum hast du keine ? ;(

[@MrHarlequin2316]

I believe this is the machine that had a failed Kickstarter campaign a year ago? Interestingly, most of your review was about the physical machine, but I believe I’m right in saying this is not their design and is in fact a Hungarian designed AVX DB1. Although I followed (but did not back) their KS, my biggest concern is I remember John from Decent’s original plan (based on the failed business whose IP be bought) was also to use largely off the shelf components, but found in the end he simply could achieve what he wanted that way, so will be interesting to see how these guys can achieve what he couldn’t. Also, you mention ‘community’ a number of times, but I’d need to be convinced that these guys have the wherewithal to ramp up to full manufacture and distribution quickly, whilst keeping the price keen enough to attract sufficient risk takers to achieve critical mass. Don’t get me wrong, I wish them well, but I’ve been burned on a coffee KS and am cynical.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Hey there! Thanks for your comment. Regarding the kickstarter, it seems that ended in June 2021. As far as I know, the version released in 2022 will not require crowdfunding. To your next point, I totally agree with you. The success of this product is going to depend on efficient production, product quality, and likely a very strong marketing campaign. I don't know much about those milieus, all I can say is that is was fun to experiment with the machine, and I got some dang good espresso out of it.

[@SzamBacsi]

The Hungarian "AVX Design" is a Chinese OEM machine, they always claim breakthrough innovations :D

[@Dune87]

Two minutes heat up time? Please do a cold start and drink an espresso after two minutes. They always claim things, but 500ml are not fully heated after two minutes.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

You are right that it is better to wait longer, and pull a couple of blank shots. The point I was trying to make is that this machine is quickly operational and up to measured temperature at the probe.

[@FinnRenard]

Thank you, but I don't really need another "smart" kitchen appliance that needs to be online. Why would I want to use a phone or tablet when I make coffee? It's hot, humid and even wet, spills occur, milk may be spraying, steam, coffee grounds. Wasteful and stupid.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Well, the idea behind this is to nerd out on the variables, and try different pressure and temp profiles. Cheers!

[@Bigjuergo]

good software, bad hardware

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

Yes, that seems to be the common stance on this machine. I actually enjoyed using the hardware, but it would be better if they'd maybe make something totally new.

[@bboulette08]

Not a real review, but at least it ca steam milk.

[@TomsCoffeeCorner]

The functional test is coming up next week Monday.