Too Many Bones Undertow Review | TMB | A Good Entry Point?

[@Septembersmith9633]

I'm super glad I ran into this video and your TMB content. For years I kept putting it off from purchase but then coming right back to reasons why I want it as a solo gamer. Then having the stupid dilemma what I should buy without breaking the bank. So thank you again for shedding alot of insight on this board game and you've reassured any of my doubts of purchasing Undertow over the base. It definitely saved me some headaches. Well done.

[@corenthian9426]

My favorite character is the premium health chips

[@BartBlackbeard]

Ghillie, Gasket and Nugget are some of my favorite characters to play and would make good additions to the undertow experience.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

I've heard ghillie is super fun, have to look more into gasket and nugget :)

[@tmorton42]

Great review. I have a lot of TMB always can recommend ghillie. But I keep using picket, boomer, and some different character to try out For me, it is the experience of traversing multiple skill paths of each character and then dumping them into different situations that make the tmb system so fun. Once one understands how the skill paths work, then applying different challenges makes this game one of my favorite games and adds considerably to the replayabilty of the game. Undertow is more complex than base tmb, but also more fun. Unbreakable I've only touched on so far, but it is quite enjoyable to the level I've dipped toes into that 3rd base game. Well done! Keep on boning!

[@jasonstach9513]

Because you liked the additional movement decisions you had to make with the Undertow battle mat, you may want to wait and pick up Unbreakable when it releases (probably June-ish). It is a standalone expansion, like Undertow, so it includes two new Gearlocs and some tyrants. But the feature I think you may like the most is the new battle mat. It has only 16 spaces like the original, but each space is cut out to hold a lava chip. Each lava chip has hot lava on one side and cooled lava on the other. Hot lava can harm the Gearlocs and some of the baddies, but it can also empower some of the baddies. Chip Theory said that one of the goals of the new battle mat was to make movement and positioning a more critical part of the gameplay. It looks like everyone will be moving around a lot more on the new mat. I think its retail price will be the same as Undertow.

[@deemich1815]

Does the Undertow battle mat add a lot to the tactics/decisions compared to the base game's mat? Is Unbreakable's lava mat supposed to up it even more compared to Undertow?

[@RocketMagnetUK]

Base game is IMO the best starting point other than the price. Most people who Solo end up multi hand fairly quickly as True Solo is too limiting on so many levels (Limited synergistic Strats, gimped Tyrants, combat positioning , limited Solo Encounter deck etc). So with this in mind you only get 1 combination of characters 2H in UT. I don't agree combat is just move to a Baddie and attack, so many Baddies combos, Tyrant skills etc you'll quickly get stomped just doing that IME but yeah that's mainly with more content. UT also has some key rules differences such as angle movement in Fatigue Rounds which with orthogonal only in base you can abuse this... Stanza is hard to get your head around as she is essentially an MMORPG buff class (Bard) and this is a key point.. TMB simulates an MMORPG.. skill trees, stats and even active and timed buffs. Basically this game is clearly inspired directly by games like Everquest... even one of the CTG TMB puzzles explicitly references EQ. Later expansion content and Tyrants do force or encourage changing builds and even which characters to combine as new players tend to Stat dump (DEX, ATK etc) thinking this always works... it doesn't. You'll notice Automation of shale can determine upgrade options. IMO Stanza isn't the most complex but way too complex for an introduction character.. Patches and Picket from the base game are much better first characters as they play classic easily understood MMO Tank/Healer roles though patches can dish out some damage.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Yeah good call with Patches. And that makes sense of dual wielding options for Solo, once you know each character I feel it'd be pretty easy to multi hand, it's just the learning curve that takes a bit of time

[@yuarthur455]

Nice, pls do another one when the new expansions drop

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Haha I'll have to convince Chip Theory to send it my way :)

[@HansJoachimMaier]

Yes, I am binging your channel ;) Stanza is my favorite character among all TMB characters. I like the puzzle and the fear when the mischievous goblins are on the map... I heavily suggest the premium health chips. Yes, they are absolutely not necessary. But they feel satisfying. It just feels good when they stack with an audible *clank* :) Ok, this is a year later and I don't know if you bought additional characters. But I heavily would suggest Nugget. I also like Gasket a lot, because he adds interesting mechanics.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Awesome, yeah I'd love to try out some more, I'll add those to the list :)

[@jasonforella7295]

great review. I think you did a good amount of boning.

[@ryangilmore3678]

100% agree with what you said at 22:00, I really love their brand and premium-ness. But with something like Burncycle I feel like they pigeon-holed themselves into having to make everything premium when they could have easily scaled it down and made it more affordable to the masses. Status chips could be small cardboard chits. All the little tiles didn't need to be neoprene. But it's what they do, and I wish they'd make some concessions somewhere.

[@rdot8419]

I have to agree to disagree. The brand is known for premium components. It's what they do. Neoprene on top of neoprene, weighted chips, pvc cards, nice dice, magnetic brass figures....Do you need that stuff. No you don't. But that's like saying that CMON doesn't need 1000 minis in every game they produce. They don't but that's what they do. Frosthaven could be cheaper if it had 30 scenarios instead of 200. It's excessive but thats what you get. Every chip theory game has a ton of content and variability well worth the price point. I'm not going to say they aren't expensive but for what you get the price isn't nearly as high as it could be. I dont really understand why people want them to change their style and use cheaper components to be like everyone else. Scythe and Sleeping Gods are at a similar price point to Undertow and no one says they are expensive.Think of it this way. A two hour movie at the theater is now around $30. So I could go see 3 two hours movies for the cost of Undertow. I've spent dozens of hours with just undertow and no other content or expansions. Money well spent.

[@SingleTrack66]

Totally. Give me premium. I may play this for 30 yrs. I’ve got a good job and quibbling over a few quid is just weird (to me at least) If it’s a shit game that you are only going to play once or twice then yes, make it cardboard. Only just got it and I’m going premium chips as my first add on. 😂

[@roberts5647]

Many have recommended to start with the base game as best *entry* point. I think this is the wrong approach unless you want to buy eventually most everything which is incredibly expensive. I was more focussed on *exit* point thinking about what modules are most exciting for me. I ended up getting Undertow, all Unbeakable content, the Undertow expansion, Splice and Dice, and then Ghille, Nugget, Gasket, Tink, and the 3 new gearlocks. Hopefully, this will be a ton of content with the most exciting features where I've purchased only 50% of everything. I can always later get the base game and expansions but I don't think I'll be tempted .... we'll see!

[@Nameless_Adventurer]

I bought the OG TMB over a year ago, and then I backed the > $1000 Completionist Pledge during the Unbreakable campaign. I do not apologize for it. Give me all the boning!

[@Nameless_Adventurer]

I have also gifted TMB Undertow more than any other board game. Everyone loves the bones.

[@revol40]

I dig everything from TMB universe. Can't wait til the Unbreakable comes out.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

This has given me a renewed appreciation for the upcoming unbreakable content that's for sure

[@DumahAtreides]

I only have base game but have most of the rest coming. I'm hoping I love it as I have the system options opened up, but I know also going in that it is a lot and at a high premium.

[@libablo]

I currently have base, undertow, ghillie nugget and gasket. I’ve played gasket frequently more recently, but I still like to revert to tantrum and boomer for just being able to clear the field quickly. Stanza is the reason I wouldn’t recommend undertow as the entry point; she’s great fun to play, but the wife refuses to play her to date because her complexity is so intimidating. I’ve played solo a couple of times; the strategies between player counts varies so wildly that it sometimes feels like a different game; you aren’t going to build a character up the same way if you have two allies on the field, dex is so much more important at solo because you can and will move around the board so much more. 3 player is probably my preferred count to date just because the challenge when you’re usually fighting harder baddies in your second fight, while you’ll only ever see a 20pt baddie solo if you have a super unlucky draw on the encounters. You could play the same character 10 times in a row and have vastly different experiences between plays; I believe that once unbreakable lands, character options go up to 18 if I recall correctly? Base is the better option for the most variability within one box, but it’s pretty easy to get a whole lot more out by buying one extra character anyway; you don’t have to be a crazy person like me and get everything, but I do rate base game better than undertow because of the added gameplay (more baddies, more characters, more encounters) - I do love me a raft fight though

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Now I want to try it at 3 haha. That's a good point about seeing more of the scary baddies the higher you go, definitely makes me more interested in that higher count. I think I like needing to move around more though but I guess you still need to in order to close the gap for the really scary ones that you have to deal with first

[@Thebrad11984]

Love your enthusiasm. This game grabbed me last March and I dipped my toe first in undertow because I was fighting against buying it all. I ended up with it plus nugget and ghille because I heard stanza was so tough. I would say ghillie would be one of the best to get with undertow because he’s ranged and somewhat simple but fun. Gasket is another challenging one so id avoid at first. Nugget is one of my favorite. She can be pretty overpowered but so fun. I can’t get enough of this game. Solo is great

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

I'm really not a solo player, but I feel the pull of TMB to solo and I know it may turn me into one :) I think that's probably why I'm so high up on it.

[@Thebrad11984]

@@RoomandBoardReviews I was the same way about solo before I got too many bones. Now I have 3 or 4 games that I pull out to play solo when I have time

[@nimblegoat]

I have seen lots of references to tentacles - but also lots of warnings not to search it - I will not search it . The great thing about these type of games - is as solo/coop you can house rule - Currently playing Familiar Tales with family - once we clear enemies on page and done all tasks - we don't grind out exit as baby screams after every turn - you soothe the brat , end of turn , brat now screams - same for battles you are going to win - played all cards in defense , well your turn son is just to draw 5 new cards for D , and wait for someone else to kill it - that's no fun co-op for kids - as we house rule it . Actually backed Unbreakable and order a smattering of everything - probably too much - no trove , not every Character , not every addon- still thing a little bit crazy - but free shipping on extra is a big pull - especially to any country.

[@jasonforella7295]

I really like Tink. Nugget is pretty great as well.

[@moo2k4]

Nugget is the right answer for what your next character should be. I personally have her + the base box and have really loved my experience with the game. At some point will be diving in to Undertow... eventually. Also can confirm that the base game is probably easier to teach. A friend and I taught a friend of ours who isn't really in to board games how to play the game and he picked up and figured out Patches really easily.

[@gordonwatson328]

I would say its either Stanza or Tantrum as the most complicated from the characters I've played. It's not so much that they are difficult to play, more that it's difficult to play them well. If you do figure out Stanza though, she can be very overpowered in a four man team.

[@Lexen_Rapier]

I should probably get this. But I joined this channel to be talked out of games. But anything you enjoy I probably will, apparently.

[@RoomandBoardReviews]

Yeah it's pretty fun, I still am torn by my middle rating haha. With the price point I don't think it's an urgent must buy, maybe something to consider down the line or try to play first.

[@tmorton42]

It is also, as Quinns said, much like "a double scotch in the bath"

[@peterriecks9126]

7:30 Artie - "Did somebody say fish!?"

[@MP-wb5yd]

Totally agree with the over production, personally this is something that tend to turns me down