Too much gear? Try a digital network matrix synth setup // Mixer vs Audio Interface //ft.Dante,H9000

Get all the tips and ideas from my videos in my In-Complete Book of Electronic Music Ideas, Tips and Tricks, on my Patreon:
► / loopop
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Check out part one of this series here:
► • How to plan a Matrix S...
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Gear in this video:
► H9000 by ‪@EventideAudio‬
► Erica Synths Matrix Mixer ‪@EricaSynths‬
► MRCC from Conductive Labs for matrix routing of MIDI, and NDLR ‪@ConductiveLabs‬
► Samson Patch bay
► CXM1978, MOOD II, Genloss and Blooper by ‪@ChaseBlissAudio‬
► KGB Fuzz by Valco Effects
► Microcosm by ‪@HologramElectronics‬
► DM-101 by ‪@rolandglobal‬
► ZOIA by ‪@empresseffects‬
► Analog Chorus 60 by @isakmgm
► Cosmos and LYRA 8 by SOMA ‪@somasynths‬
► Shallow Water by ‪@FairfieldCircuitry‬
► NTS-2 by ‪@KorgOfficial‬
► Maschine+ by ‪@NativeInstruments‬
► Keystep Pro by ‪@ArturiaOfficial‬
► JX-08 by ‪@rolandglobal‬
► Play by ‪@Polyend‬
► Digitone and Digitakt by ‪@WeAreElektron‬
► Sub 25, Subharmoncon by ‪@MoogSynthesizers‬
► ARP2600 by ‪@KorgOfficial‬
► Hydrasynth by ‪@AshunSoundMachines‬
► RE-303 by dinsync
► 8PRE by ‪@ArturiaOfficial‬
► Patchbay by Samson
► Magnetismus 2 by ‪@Tegeler‬
►► Other stuff keeping the setup together
► Color cables and 90 degree cables by Designacable
► 90 degree black cables by Tendrils
► Jaspers 3D-120B stand with various accessories from Jaspers (I bought them on the Thomann site)
► The Rack is called "Thon Studio Line" and I bought it from Thomann
► MRCC is on the Besign desktop stand: amzn.to/3xpDDtN
► Wood blocks from my son's now unused marble set
TIMELINE:
0:00 Intro
2:00 Final warning
3:10 Mixer or interface?
4:55 Ease of use
5:10 USB channels
5:40 MIDI mapping
6:15 DAW as mixer
6:35 Latency
7:10 DAW as matrix
8:20 Need pre-amps?
9:10 I/O types
9:50 Expanders
11:50 Need DSP?
13:20 Multitrack rec
13:40 Inputs vs outputs
14:05 Matrix audio
15:20 Sub mixes/sends
15:50 USB vs analog
16:40 Multiroom setups
17:30 RTP MIDI
18:15 Routing MIDI
19:50 Bome network
20:25 Ableton Link
20:55 Network audio
21:35 Dante via PC
24:10 Dante AVIO
25:30 Dante controller
27:05 It works!
28:10 H9000 worth it?
32:15 Setup tour
33:15 Patch Bay crimes
34:00 Outro
Submit review and video ideas here (sorry I don’t offer 1x1 sessions/setup/purchasing advice):
► Ziv (at) loopopmusic.com
NOTE: Occasionally I’ll try out affiliate marketing and include affiliate links. This means that I may earn a commission when you click on or make purchases via affiliate links to stores like Amazon, Sweetwater, Thomann and others. The content of this clip is entirely my opinion, and was not paid for or dictated in any way by the company creating the gear. Without addressing the particulars of products shown here as they might be under NDA, gear shown on this channel may be either sent by the manufacturer, on loan for review or bought at a discount.

[@AngMoKio8]

Would you mind making a video of all the gear that has accumulated over the years in your house? Would love to see that.... 😃

[@jaysgood10]

But then he would have to kill you. .

[@kierenmoore3236]

Gear porn overload!! 🤤😀

[@jamesbowsher-murray128]

Yes like a meta review. What did you keep and use?

[@Dominant1mw]

I second that

[@bitbotrecords]

Mega 🎉

[@fiftyshadesofurban]

This dude has reached god-like status at this point. Most people envision having their own studio. This dude has gone beyond studios and into inventing the Midinet. LOL

[@EshockT]

Couple of Tips. Behringer X Touch can be your one control surface that tracks to any DAW or digital mixer. It can connect via USB or over IP. Very customizable and only $500. For Dante, the last three years have been tough with chip shortages, but we are seeing a rise in Dante-enabled digital mixers. The Behringer/Midas X32 range has been a $2-3k standard for over a decade. This gives you 32 analog and 32 dante I/O. You lose USB but you can use Dante Virtual Soundcard as your DAW interface. But, we now have the Yamaha DM3D which is compact and does 18/18. Also, Tascam and RME have some nice analog / dante converters so you can control your sub mixes from an iPad, PC or back at your main mixer. Keep your Dante switches Isolated from your computer network. Netgear has the M4250 series to make network optimization easy and robust.

[@ET2carbon]

Very informative thank you. This is a new endeavor I'm considering so your input is helpful

[@dankeplace]

I posted this whole long post, and it failed, so my point was that the interface vs mixer is always a good debate, knowing the pros and cons is always a resourceful tool. People need to assess which works better for them, it may save some headaches latter in their studio time. Thx for the upload Ziv.

[@fergadelics]

I learned a lot by connecting / networking everything and getting it all working. The most important thing was probably that if you want to make music in the moment and there is a simple way of just patching a few things together or it’s nbd to track one thing at a time, just do that. You can spend all day troubleshooting and lose any creative inspiration by the time it’s all working. Regardless of how nice your aggregate boxes are. Everything works perfectly when you’re drawing plans out. The flip side of it is, if you enjoy the puzzle of it - it’s fun.

[@samprock]

I avoided “too many gear” problem by buying few “too expensive analog synths” (extending Apollo Twin X with 8 optical outs from less expensive Presonus) 😂 cool vid series, Loopop!

[@ryanpaul4378]

I really appreciate the information density in this video. This is extremely comprehensive coverage of the topic without wasting any time. Very nicely done.

[@JamesDeBono]

Great video! It's cool to see someone as popular as yourself talking about audio networking! One minor criticism. I feel like AVB was a bit misrepresented here. You don't need a proprietary switch, rather you need a layer 2 switch that supports a few IEEE standards (open) for it to work. There are a few overpriced switches made by audio companies but there are also many made by networking companies that are fairly generic. AVB is also natively supported on MAC hardware. AVB has the advantage of having reserved bandwidth for audio, meaning you can achieve even lower latency and it's practically impervious to clock sync issues and drop-outs, the same cannot be said about Dante. It also supports video! Which could be very cool for remote monitors to see your DAW from your synth room for example. You are certainly right though in saying that it is far less common at this stage but I think it would be good to promote it as it is far superior in my opinion and broader adaptation would be great for musicians. One more thing to note is that AVB is a transport protocol but it's isn't so specific to define bit rates and stuff. Milan is a profile of AVB that aims to solve that and create a common standard between AVB devices. Aside from that, really nice video! So thorough yet digestible as always. Great work

[@loopop]

Thanks! Unfortunately I can't change the video but indeed "supporting" switch would have been the correct word to use instead of proprietary. I don't know why AVB hasn't caught on, like I mentioned in the video, I prefer open protocols which AVB is, it's just that replacing all my switches isn't something I wanted to do, and frankly I just love those little AVIO adapters that I can plug anywhere in my network to tap in to everything. Dante supports video too BTW (I didn't try it). In retrospect I could have used remote video for this video! Remote desktop is easy but seeing the LEDs on the A8R and MioXL would have helped save some hops up and down to the basement

[@JamesDeBono]

@@loopop oh I didn't know that about Dante, that is cool! Totally fair point about not wanting to change the switches. I think one of the main reasons AVB hasn't caught on is that Dante is already so wide spread. I think the fact that RME are using AVB makes a statement though. I have looked into designing equipment that uses AVB myself. (You may or may not know I was a product designer for the MOD Dwarf. Another great video BTW that was very insightful for us but I'm no longer working there) but the problem is that even though the AVB protocol is open, there is mostly only proprietary implementations on the hardware side. There aren't really options for off the shelf AVB chips that allow manufacturers to make affordable AVB devices YET. I have heard rumours that things are moving though so I hope we will see more in the near future

[@keypusher0]

Been looking for a good solution to this problem for ages, thank you so much for putting this together.

[@ET2carbon]

This was your most informative video I've seen from you that addressed such a major issue in my large production multiroom environment. I appreciate that. I just felt it was rushed and contained a couple unneeded tangents. However, you did provide some starting points for me to dig further so thank you.

[@noisebrick9248]

This is an amazing video, it's so easy to get confused with all this, you end up having 2/3 synths and a drum machine, then getting it all together can seem like a nightmare. But once it works it's heavenly. I recently chose a MOTU ultralite, works both as an audio interface and standalone mixer (I wished this was advertised more tbh), saves a ton of space on the desk and it's an all around amazing device. Having something like this makes life way easier, finally moved out the basic 15e mixer I had.

[@7vinylsuite]

Great video! I buddy my H9000 with my RME UFXII, so this was fun to watch and learn from. Most of the RME current Fireface interfaces have the "DuREC" feature. Which allows for recording up to ALL of the units I/O to WAV files to a connected flash drive as separate stems or to a summed stereo mix if you choose. This feature is amazing- and can be used with or without a computer connected. Sidenote- If you like Dawless setups, this is the way to go.

[@ellagreen9056]

Thanks very much Loopop. Much appreciated. Very well timed for me! I am in the middle of this very exercise, having recently spent a small fortune on used RedNet devices to go along with the eye-watering fortune I have already spent on accumulating analogue gear, effects and processors. The gear overwhelm has managed to kill creativity so often that I now steal a few boxes from the studio and set them up in a spare room ... I can see that I am not alone in this affliction! 😆

[@dalelaushman8749]

Very nice video! Mixers, interfaces, patchbays, and Midi/RTP!!! Your demystification is excellent as always. And, ageed, Eventide FX can be time sinks, but so worth the time and super delicious; love the H7600 I have right now...Algs galore! H9K looks killer!

[@ExpectResistance]

Such a great video on so many levels. Amazing job!!

[@MaxPatissier]

Thank you for your video, I learn something every time. I have a X32 with 16 synths connected to the first 16 channels and the other 16 for USB via Ableton. I can enjoy both of hardware and software sound generators. The good point is that, in less that 20 secondes, I can turn on my X32, a synth and enjoy to record on the fly with only one button press. All machines are connected to MIDI via Expert Sleepers FH-2 and MidiHub.

[@witchfindergeneral2504]

Loved that sound you created 👍

[@vgmandstuff1381]

Man, while I love Dante's reliability and ease of use, I feel like musicians still get rawed over by licensing. The XLR pair of inputs to ethernet is 289€ on Thomann atm and that is definitely not the cost of the hardware... I wish there was a license-free alternative that was as robust and didn't require any fiddling -- because right now all that's keeping most musicians to get a more flexible setup is the absurd licensing cost.

[@Kevinjames0976]

Extraordinary knowledge base and gear. Nice useful topics. Thank you sir .

[@hovermotion]

Wow that is some setup and production.. I only have a basic setup and like to keep it as simple as possible without.a daw , in this video I learnt some new stuff..it's mind blowing what can be done with today's tech ,hardware and software etc.. Superb video as always.... Jim

[@loopop]

Thanks!

[@acousticshred]

V good explanation for this nuanced niche! Thank you :)

[@evendrones8778]

Very good summary! Love it! We use AVB (128 Channels ) and Dante (64 Channels) on two floors and one analog desk. For Quality of Service both systems do need a "good" network hardware but not "special" ones.

[@ktfilm4789]

This is SO useful. Thank you so much.

[@linusblomberg6166]

Great video, thanks! It could be worth mentioning Madi also, which carry both audio and midi through optical cable over long distances. I use an RME audio interface and expand that with a Ferrofish Pulse 16 interface across the room adding 16 more audio channels (can be 64) and midi across the room through one thin optical cable.

[@loopop]

Thanks! Indeed, though MADI is point to point, not a network protocol

[@linusblomberg6166]

@@loopop sure, but you can daisy-chain multiple units together.

[@ET2carbon]

​@@linusblomberg6166the second sentence in the title says network matrix

[@gnthr7992]

Using VST Synths in a DAW combined with only a selected amount of analog synths going through a mixer into an audio interface has some charm, too !

[@gz625]

It doesn't. Cheap digital sound from it

[@ET2carbon]

That is not at all the point of this video. The first sentence in the title says "Too much gear?"

[@LaChona420k]

Received my ucx2 today. Gonna be a bit of a learning curve but it just seems so worth it.

[@FrankvonWelt]

Awesome video. Thank you! It would be great to see more of those workflow/strategy/concept videos beside reviews of gear. Greetings from Germany

[@loopop]

Thanks! Let me know if there are any specific topics you want me to cover

[@mclovin_69_]

the track in the intro is fire

[@SnapImaX]

this channel is the best for solving both "i have 5000 bucks too much" and "i have 50000 bucks too much" problems

[@loopop]

I'm trying to level up but Lamborghini won't send me a review unit

[@supercompooper]

I’ve been using Dante for 5 years in my home studio! Nice to see the world catching on. I have over 100 I/O all on at the same time!

[@dankeplace]

Yet you have zero music, cool story bro, say I said hi to your glorious leader, John.

[@supercompooper]

@@dankeplace I make music all the time. I just don't publish it on KZbin. I was making music all day yesterday with friends.

[@dankeplace]

@@supercompooper sure you were, sounds like a made up story that requires more dragons.

[@dankeplace]

@@supercompooper oh wait, you're the one with the MoogOne you broke and blame Moog, tsk tsk tsk.

[@supercompooper]

@@dankeplaceit arrived broken.

[@avetisk]

Great video as usual! For UAD there’s a paid app that allows to use midi to control the console which works great.

[@niallmacdonald2710]

I had the same problem a fair few years back, not everything fit into one room any more. I solved it at the time with Yamaha 01/x and i88x submixer systems in 2 other rooms, linked over long firewire leads with a firewire hub halfway along the cable runs. One in the guitar room, one more in the drum room, with 2 more i88x in the main studio, 1 each from the other rooms. This was possible as I bought the Yamaha gear at the point in time many were getting rid of their systems because of driver issues so I only paid a small percentage of their original cost. This system you're showing here is slicker and more straightforward, but also a lot less cost effective. Still very interesting to see though.

[@imranino]

Wow this melted my brain. But some really great ideas for my home setup.

[@acewakaflaka]

new loopop lets gooo

[@mathieupe666]

thanks! that was a lot of infos!

[@theleastsignificantbit4794]

I use a Yamaha TF-1 with the Dante card at work. That is an amazing mixer, and Dante is one if the great inventions in the transport if audio. At home, I use the Tascam Model 12, which is a solid mixer with a lot of flexibility.

[@alexetchart]

You're always a step ahead. Exactly what I was looking for!!! I'm looking at old firewire adat 8/8 interfaces ($150 on ebay) to turn Push 3 into a mulit-fx pedal as well as to patch the vocalists in my band into multi-fx, just need to test everything still works on these old interfaces

[@alexetchart]

Problem for live is the need for XLRs in and out to help the sound engineer not go mad and need a billion DI boxes, so I'm voting for MOTU 896, despite the bulk, will give it a try and report back

[@alexetchart]

ALSO if you're willing to perform with a laptop / incorporate a computer in your setup, UA Midi independent software by Radu Varga allows you to control UAD Apollo interface and DSP plugins via MIDI, so you can control FX using a controller. The only limitation there becomes UA Console's limited routing (you have to go thru DAW to route past 8 outputs on the x8p, e.g. to use the ADAT outs)

[@markkilley2683]

Worth considering.

[@gregkrukemeier2003]

Great Complex setup! Mine has some similarity to this. 2x Presonus 4848's, Samson and Mamba XDB Patchbays and Midi Mio 10. iConnectivty has been a blessing allowing midi to be routed to and from both eurorack, DAW and keyboard synths. I think the cables cost more than the setup, lol. These types of set ups become great space savers for those who need space because a large mixer/tape counsel is a space eater. But not having to unplug and re-plug everything every time you want to change your routing, I found is an essential time saver. Keep Jammin' Ziv, your reviews are still the best out there.

[@SvenFx-22]

Please please do a tutorial on the dirtywave M8. All the videos available have young ADHD musicians bouncing around and not explaining anything. If ever an instrument needed a professional step by step tutorial on how to maximize the use of features it is the M8. Your instructional method is clear and concise. I would even pay for a set of instructional videos. Thank you

[@eastvantony]

great stuff thanks!

[@isaac.anthony]

Big fan of iConnectivity had the 4+ for couple years, works great!

[@loopop]

Good to hear!

[@mglohmeyer]

Thank you for this extensive video. There isn't much info out there that explains real world examples of using devices like this (audio and MIDI over network to connect devices in separate rooms or even across a single large room). I went with Presonus StudioLive gear for audio (using AVB and a single point to point Ethernet cable) and the iConnectivity mioXL for MIDI (running over my house network). There are many pros and cons for the different solutions and nothing is even close to perfect. But it is nice once you get it setup. I am still learning and trying things. So I know you took a lot of time to research this video, select the equipment and figure out how to explain it. I hope you can do some more on this topic. For anyone with a studio full of gear, understanding these options for sound and midi routing can really transform your setup.

[@loopop]

Thanks - and yes indeed this video took quite some time to make - not to mention running up and down to the basement and back to test everything! But yes I'm quite hooked on networking...

[@renemunkthalund3581]

I use a RME soundcard to secure all outboard synths and effects are readily available for virtual patching. I do, however, often miss the Mackie 8-bus I used to work with in 90s…

[@Daphoid]

What a super thorough video. Lots of work and effort in this clearly, Thanks Ziv! I'm in the "lots of gear" camp as well; but it's all shelved due to lack of space in a small apartment. Whenever we get a house the big hurdle for me will be doing something along these lines (making it all easily available and routable) - and this video series will most definitely be helpful. Kudos!

[@wrmusic8736]

I have XR18 (yes it's THAT guy, I know), don't quite have 7000 bucks to spend on H9000 or similar. But, hey, 16 input multitrack and some DSP stuff on board is pretty cool for the price.

[@uly1981]

same here, great cheap solution for a hybrid studio

[@artephank]

It is marvelous mixer/soundcard. Strudy, great sounding and great value. However, I am thinking about getting rid of it and getting simple mixer because I hardly ever record multitrack. Usually I just record one synth at time, so I learned that for my workflow it is a bit overkill. But still- many years in service, absolutely no issues.

[@wrmusic8736]

@@artephank that's good. I'm actually using XR18 as multitrack more and more, just recently I've set a bunch of its inputs to receive S900 outputs (which I use mostly as a sampling drum machine) and I use onboard compressor and EQ before it even gets into the DAW, which I try to use more and more as a tape machine while also limiting myself to as few synths as possible.

[@artephank]

@@wrmusic8736 nice

[@mossgraber]

Very interesting! Would love to see a Dante deep-dive!

[@loopop]

Thanks! That's pretty much it in terms of intro, audinate have a really easy to understand series of videos on their channel ("level one certification") if you want to go deeper. That said I'll check this out again in a few weeks so let me know if anything isn't clear after you've seen their videos

[@mossgraber]

@@loopop Will do!

[@_DrumsArt]

I was looking to add a mixer to run to my audio interface. I also have a rack that connects via ADAT. That connection being turned on was making audio shut off. Model 16 probably is what will go up on my equipment rack. Running interface to interface was how I was getting a dual pc setup to pull audio when Mac doesn't have desktop audio. That is a separate issue to be had. Blackhole worked in earlier Mac OS versions, and now it does not. A hardware mixer being partially analogue seems more ideal for my setup. I was depending on a Roland MX-1, but I have outgrown the need for just one input mixer, plus the my main interface it runs all of my synths to.

[@enphour7960]

I have a single studio room using 3 x MOTU 828 MK3 Audio interfaces (programmable for stand alone use or use with computer) and 4 x MOTU MTP USB MIDI interfaces (programmable for stand alone use or computer) to route audio and network MIDI

[@nathanieljohnsonjr775]

The exact video I wanted to see!! I'm considering a Dante AD/DA and I wanted to know what the midi latency would be. Thanks for posting this!!

[@loopop]

Cool - FYI rtpMIDI runs in parallel to Dante and isn't really related to it (might be higher latency than Dante)

[@nathanieljohnsonjr775]

@@loopop You're correct, I should have been more clear. I want a Dante Interface to replace my current once. I plan on producing the way I would with any other USB or Thunderbolt interface.

[@kirkegodfrey414]

GAS explosion ‼️🎛️☑️🍸

[@warhoofd74]

This is the kind of video that I wish I would have seen about ten years ago … watched it all in one sitting … very inspiring One question … the cheaper Eventide pedals also have that software program with them?

[@loopop]

Thanks! If you mean control software (moving the knobs from a computer), then yes, if you mean programming your own algorithms, then no.

[@FRMTHREE]

I recommend Tascam Model 16 for a mixer/interface.

[@exdeecee]

Ziv:to repeat - this is stunningly dense and useful, even more so than many others of your usually dense and useful videos. Ever try to do anything with VSig3?

[@loopop]

Glad you like it! I did try and explore it a bit, but never really spent the time to dive in and learn it properly. Now that H9000 will be getting RNBO support I might go the max way if I do choose to make my own algorithms, but frankly, I'm not even close to being finished exploring the bundled algos and chains...

[@dokma_eu]

AVB is a open IEEE standard protocol that works on OSI Layer 2 - and (IMHO) it should be supported by many vendors since it doesn't require licencing. Apple Mac supports AVB on it's Ethernet interface port - so you can connect to the Presonus StudioLive III 32R - I know because I did just that few days ago, and had 64x64 channels, along with control traffic to/from the mixer, so both were sent via just one Cat5e ethernet cable (connected to my Mac Studio directly to Presonus digital mixer). Other audio standards like Dante and MADI - they are all proprietary and require licensing, and that's one of the reasons why such devices are expensive compared to AVB (also, Dante works on OSI Layer 3, which gives far more possibilities when it comes to IP routing and switching - hence, it is capable to connect thousands of channels and audio devices). MADI is also a OSI Layer 2 protocol but it is based on FDDI so it cannot work on Ethernet (not without some converter inbetween, I remember that RME has those), so for MADI it is only Coax or Fiber optic cables. When it comes to the LAN switching (and routing) equipment - before you buy equipment make sure it does support your chosen audio protocol (or if you don't know if it is - do not connect anything else to that network segment - keep data/audio/control traffic on separate network segments to avoid congestion and re-transmit issues and what not). There are many other Audio over Ethernet standards, see Wikipedia at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_over_Ethernet

[@loopop]

Yes, I mention AVB, the fact that it's open source, and its support by Presonus and Apple (and Motu) in the video. However, since it requires special switches, it not practical for most people who have existing networks already set up.

[@dokma_eu]

@@loopop it doesn't require special switches if you have only one computer and one AVB interface so you can connect directly with Ethernet between them, no switch is required. Even if you had multiple AVB devices on same network segment it may even work if you don't overload all the AVB endooints with traffic, in such case it just might work - but if you're really depending on your AVB network surely it's wiser to verify-before-buy that your AVB network switch supports IEEE 802.1AS, IEEE 802.1Qav and IEEE 802.1Qat protocols because they are essential for AVB-based network to keep devices time-synchronised to one timing domain, next one regulates packet queueing and the last one is a stream reservation protocol, that one regulates streaming resources on the network (admission control which says to one end "You AVB device No.1 cannot use this resource because I am not letting you to"). If I am not mistaken, some series of Cisco switches DO support AVB protocols. Either way, Dante manufacturer Audinate has Dante Level 1, 2 and 3 certification exams which you can do for free, I've passed Dante Level 1 exam without even learning much (but that's just me with 30 years of experience in IT networking). I'll continue with Levels 2 and 3 (I was too lazy to learn and practice with Dante Domain Manager so I didn't do it before - I'd strongly suggest to look it up, it is interesting). Bottom line - Dante is a revolution on audio networking but on a "enterprise" level, and AVB is for smaller networks, studios with one or up to 5 AVB devices, where your computer counts as one - usually Mac, because AVB is not supported on Windows, not that I know of. All in all - yes, Dante is a future but expensive one, MADI is older but still very much alive but it will die out eventually, AES67 will also stay and dominate, and AVB is the future for smaller installations. Other protocols will die out, as they are not interroperable with other manufacturers, only Dante and AVB are.

[@mglohmeyer]

You can get routers that support AVB without buying the special Presonus AVB router. AVB is just a Quality of Service (QoS) standard, and if your router has it, it will give priority to AVB traffic over normal data traffic. Dante is doing the same thing, but probably using QoS protocols already built into common routers. But most people using audio other Ethernet for a serious applications will still want to isolate the audio on its own network and routers. So having to buy a special AVB compatible router isn't as big of a deal as it seems. That Presonus 5 port router is expensive ($500), though, not just because of AVB, but more so because it has PoE as well. I considered this when looking at AVB vs. the alternatives and concluded no matter what I use, I need a separate network. I bought into the Presonus StudioLive gear for that reason. It was much cheaper than Dante based gear, and either way, I would feel compelled to use a dedicated network between my two rooms. I only need one extra cable run between my two rooms and have a single Presonus 32R rack mixer in each room. So for that setup, I don't even need a router. I can use a point to point connection. I wired my house with CAT6 Ethernet already, and adding an extra dedicated wire isn't a big deal for me. I plan to get a Presonus console mixer eventually, and I will get a dedicated router to hook it to one of the 32R mixers (giving 64 channels in a single room, 32 channels in the other room), or just sell one of my 32R mixers and replace it with the console. I can always add the dumb AVB port expanders for less money to get more ports. But Presonus isn't perfect. Dante is the popular standard for a reason, and you pay for it. More features, and better support I'm sure over AVB. Price was a reason I went with Presonus. I'm still deciding if it was worth saving the money, but aside from a few issues I've dealt with, it is working for me. The StudioLive 32R mixer is a 64x64 matrix mixer controllable via iPad or my computer and can act as an audio interface to my computer or iPad, and my cost for 2x of them was less than $3K (bought one of them used). Could have saved more using the dumb AVB port expanders instead of a 2nd 32R mixer, but I wanted an actual mixer in each room.

[@slackmaster666]

@loopop, you sure do talk pretty. for this is the dream. I'm listening.

[@Kevvywevvy]

It would be great to see you demo Reliq's hybrid Sequencer 😊

[@amsrytm]

Great vid! I bow to the G.A.S god!

[@ugentu]

Fireface UCX II, which is shown in the video, has DC Coupled inputs as well

[@loopop]

How sure are you? I just re-checked on the site and it only says DC coupled outputs

[@ugentu]

Ah, I might missed this detail) Just remember that it has DC “support”, so you probably right

[@divad-deee-vice]

You can definitely split a single source to multiple destinations (i.e. “mult-ing”) on the MOTU AVB matrix. In fact, your screen shot shows computer out 1/2 going to both Main and Phones outputs L/R 😉

[@loopop]

I never said Motu interfaces can't do that - I show them as a good example of what's possible throughout the video

[@divad-deee-vice]

@@loopop oh I’m not finished watching yet :) but i did get this impression when you said more folks should be like Erica :) Thank you for clarifying!

[@loopop]

@@divad-deee-vice I do think more folks should be like Erica

[@dnalyen]

If anyone is interested, it is possible to use Dante to combine two Macs. I use my more powerful Mac to do all my song creation and a Mac mini for my mix and related plugins. All at the same time. This is possible with a rednet headphone amp and Dante software on the macs. It’s really nice, in the future I will buy 2 Dante audio interfaces for this purpose

[@setphaser]

I started with an analog mixer, then switched to interfaces… Steinberg ur824 and 2 octopre’s for 32 channels mapped each to a diff track in protocols so I can record it all at the hit of a button…. MIDI still effs with my head though. It would be great for fixing a bad performance, but it just adds a level of complexity…. To do it with every synth… I have the midi merge and cables… but I basically just use it to send bpm nothing more

[@OliverMooney]

How on earth do you decide what piece of gear to use? I'd be paralysed by choice! Thanks for the great overview guide to what's involved getting everything talking to everything else - it's fascinating.

[@loopop]

As odd as it sounds coming from someone who made a video like this one, I actually prefer smaller setups. The thing is, I have all this gear which I keep for reference and because I invested a lot of time in it, and the fact that it wasn't connected down in the basement was preventing me from using it. This type of setup lets me pick and choose a subset of what's connected and jam with it. I guess kind of like food in a fridge, there's a lot to pick from, but you don't make a meal with everything, just with what you feel like enjoying at a given time.

[@roryoconnor4989]

Shoutout to Jaspers Alu stands. Best investment I ever made.

[@analogrich]

Would love a h9000 to add to my collection. Please please please do a h9000 video of just effects and noodling.

[@ManCalledMif]

Love maximalism 🎉

[@freeze157]

mmm, that white Maschine....😍

[@unitedsouthenterprisesllc]

Audio Science fuels the brain🧠💥

[@davidavanesian1070]

@loopop. Amazing video! Can you make a video on how to properly connect stereo synths to mono pedals? And in general, once lots of synths and pedals get accumulated, how can one use patchbay to properly connect them all?

[@loopop]

Thanks! Just disable any stereo features of your synth and use only one output. Or buy two effects :) re patch bay, see my previous video linked in the description

[@davidavanesian1070]

Thank you!!!@@loopop

[@williamtell1477]

Haha, I use TRS for stereo I/O on effects as well, dont tell anyone!

[@klinkske]

Patchbay crimes sounds like a good songtitle for my next horrible track :D

[@MaDmanEXE]

Correction: AVB is an open standard, however just like Dante, it requires tight hardware support to work,

[@loopop]

Not sure what you mean by correction. I mention AVB is an open standard, and as I show in the video, Dante doesn’t need hardware support to work.

[@gwsound]

I was open voor a H9000 but then run into the H90 and noticed the complex way Eventide makes their software interface even on a paddle. Also the manual is obviously written by people that already know a lot about the product and lacks consistency in terms and names that they use for a function.

[@JRKEYS]

I wonder why folks don't use, the Flock Audio patch? Is it because of the price point? The digital side of the unit looks very versatile.

[@TheHeadHunters]

I am contemplating the flock. The scary part for me is if they go out of business, and the software stops working, the device would turn into a brick at that point…

[@karljanus8308]

Where is that "PREVIOUS" video about the analog set up??:) Thanks a lot. I am curious.

[@loopop]

There's a link in the description

[@dazisk5355]

YESSSSS

[@exdeecee]

Ziv Denser is clearly better - as long as you understand everything - thanx man! Michael/Resyn

[@josh_dick]

I’m curious if you could share any details about how that desk surface is integrated into your Jaspers stand? Could use something similar for mine!

[@loopop]

It’s just a piece of wood sitting on the front and back bars

[@josh_dick]

@@loopop simple but effective, thanks!

[@arxaaron]

This makes my brain hurt. I have no idea how you manage to wade through the infinite combinations of interfaces, signal types, routing matrices, adapters, devices, and synths, plus all the associated hardware quirks and caveats, to build a usable creative studio. Perhaps you could make a video at some point that prioritizes paths to simplicity? Having this myriad of options in modern music making tech is truly mind boggling, but it so often can seem to get in the way of just making some music.

[@loopop]

I believe you can do it, but that's exactly why my video starts with "Final Warning" and suggests patch bays as a simple solution to the problem. Using them is discussed in the previous video, linked in the bio. Another option is just to make ad hoc setups directly connecting whatever you want, but that's why these videos are trying to avoid.

[@arxaaron]

@@loopop Thanks for responding, though I was thinking about seeking simplicity in more global terms, I will def check out the videos on simpler interconnect options!🤔 Your coverage is always edifying and only rarely makes my brain hurt. 😄

[@skrachdisful]

Have a h9000 and wondered if itd replace my h8000. I think they sound different

[@unseenjungle5386]

next time someone calls me a nerd, i just have to show them this video... :D

[@user-qt2lb2ym3s]

How do you find the fan noise on the H9000? I’ve not actually been in the studio with one up and running and wondering if it’s noticeable or bothersome?

[@loopop]

It's there but doesn't bother me (it's about 2 meters/6 feet from where I sit though). I have a DB meter app on my phone and it says 28-29 db when the H9000 is on and I bring my phone right up to the screen, and 25-26db when it's off

[@metatron3942]

I was just staring at my unweedly stack of mind bending bulky synthesizers thinking what am I going to do with all this

[@DALHOPP]

❤❤❤

[@lamasteve6905]

Could fiber be a solution ? In Higher Tech area's it sure is !

[@puffyjmackdaddy]

I typically wind up with an awful noise when I connect MIDI and audio at the same time, do you know how I can fix that?

[@loopop]

It's hard to troubleshoot because it can be caused by many things. I made a video with a few solutions for clearing up noise/hum, and there are more in my book on Patreon

[@edjefferson9175]

Suggest Presonus StudioLive III series mixers. They are great class compliant USB interfaces and i/o can be expanded with AVB. The remote iPad control is very very good.

[@andelys6310]

14:22 what audio interface is this?

[@synthplayer1563]

You should also mention the less expensive Behringer digital mixers, X32 (32 in/outputs over USB, 2500€) or X18. They also have a Dante card (455€) for the X32 which exposes the 32 in/outputs to LAN. H9000 is simply not affordable for a hobbyist.

[@loopop]

You misunderstood the video, or are just looking to promote Behringer while attacking me along the way (welcome to the club). There are dozens of other affordable brands I ignore in this video. I absolutely say the H9000 is expensive and mention other alternatives, and specifically mention a used H9max as an alternative for people looking for a cheap way to get eventide sounds, pairs with a cheap mixer/interface. The purpose of this video wasn't to give a comprehensive look at available products, but rather to discuss what to look for as you do your shopping.

[@synthplayer1563]

@@loopop Ok, thanks for the good answer. But I think sometimes one shouldn't get so involved and I think the Behringer products would deserve to be named. I changed my text so as not to offend you.

[@loopop]

@@synthplayer1563 what do you mean by so involved? Do you mean if a company lies about you and silences you, you shouldn’t set the record straight? Or it is the racist attacks on a reporter or copying innovative products? Surely that’s worth a little discount on gear I guess

[@synthplayer1563]

@@loopop Ok, I don't know the truth. I mean, it's been my life experience that sometimes it's better to take a step back and most of the time communicating through social media isn't the best. Please accept my apologies for bringing it up that way. Keep your good work.

[@ClintSpector]

Befaco acdc is an alternative to expert sleepers modules

[@TMeier]

Was going to say the same!

[@andycleall]

You (Ziv) are named as a user of the Electra One on their website. Would you recommend it? I can’t find many reviews. Will you be making a review?

[@loopop]

yes I think it works quite well - no review planned for now

[@andycleall]

What would you choose for a live situation- Electra or Faderfox EC/UC4? Difficult to make a decision without a reference.

[@PsychologyAcademia]

This is like putting a sticking plaster over a big wound. The issue is Gear Acquisition Syndrome that your channel pushes.

[@loopop]

The title literally says "too much gear" - what an odd way to "push". We have fun with synths and setups here, no more than a baking channel "pushes" brownies

[@PsychologyAcademia]

@@loopop Putting a plaster on the problem isnt a fix though. Rather than solving the problem your just hiding it.

[@jamespingel8730]

Is it a patchbay crime to use the mode switches on the s-patch as mutes? I have a matrixbrute that I sometimes use as a midi controller for smaller modules, and since that's one of my noisier synths I just move the patch points it's plugged into from a normalled mode to thru and don't plug any cables in front. Instant mute without touching any volume pots or my audio interface.

[@loopop]

same here for discovering noise sources...

[@mikg2618]

14:47 RME TotalMix FX can do it

[@dengyun846]

Protip: sharing this video with concerned spouses may be very dangerous.

[@loopop]

There's a reason I don't specify exactly how many thousands were spent making this

[@AnomieDomine]

What about WIDI for room-to-room MIDI from one brain to another? Then wired locally per setup Edit: Will the book be offered as hardback or paperback eventually?

[@loopop]

I don't think WIDI is designed to work across walls, but I didn't test it. Regarding a printed book - perhaps, for now no - I still have quite a few updates planned

[@AnomieDomine]

@@loopop thank! I figured as much, if you haven't published before it can be an ordeal if you keep your own standards and try to profit. I see your concern with WIDI - $50 I'll give it a try, I watched a video where a user walked across the house without dropping connection, I'm assuming like anything else distance and barriers can worsen latency. It just seems strange to me that something that actually works so well has little discussion, but I guess most people have already found their own solution like Ethernet.

[@donadoma]

Less is more ☝️

[@loopop]

If less is more then nothing is everything

[@donadoma]

​@@loopopyes, maybe. 😊👍

[@dtrelzmusic]

8-28-23-Can you place the links in this video are in this comment section to the the previous videos.

[@loopop]

Not sure I understand? I linked to the previous video in the description

[@dtrelzmusic]

@@loopop I've seen the erica mixer video, It was the other setup with the analog allen & health device

[@dtrelzmusic]

@@loopop My fault, I just notice that the Erica Mixer and the Mrcc and Allen health mixer was the previous video. Sorry about that.

[@electrosonicnebula]

That video should have been titled Loopop studio tour for maximum clickbait lol

[@loopop]

you mean EPIC studio tour

[@electrosonicnebula]

@@loopopyou could add dude. Epic studio tour, dude. the juxtaposition of ndlr and keystep pro certainly provides you with epic sequencing.

[@Gigosula]

I know that „Sound Quality“ and „Vibe“ are not beloved topics on this channel, but can somebody advise me on Midas M32R or another hardware mixer for studio mixing purposes. How does ist sound? I know model 12 is „Thin“ can even tell it by ear. PS. My favorite video on the channel so far

[@loopop]

Thanks! I've never tried it. lol sound quality and vibe aren't discussed much but they're appreciated. Indeed in my personal opinion I don't think it extends to digital mixers though, but that's just me

[@Gigosula]

Hey @@loopop thanx for reply, do you mean that digital mixers are "as they are" ? Im not looking for anything warm or vintagey, just want something that does not misses and messes anything

[@loopop]

@@Gigosula I think you should be good with either one, but I haven’t tried them