Top Ten Hated Characters We're Supposed To Like

Wait... you expected me to LIKE this character? To find them... SYMPATHETIC?! Screw you; you just landed on my list of Top Ten Hated Characters We're Supposed To Like!
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[@joshscorcher]

Hey guys. Addressing a few common comments. It really did look to me like Plutia sexually assaulted IF. It still looks like that to me, but I can see the other side too. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm not apologizing for the jab at the end of the Abby segment. If you can't handle someone saying "some social justice types are radical and over the top" and somehow glean the ludicrous notion that I am alt-right, then you really need to get off social media and actually talk to people you don't agree with.

[@ntheultimate6781]

Thank you! That whole thing with Plutia/Iris Heart really bothered me with how you misunderstood that scene. It's ok if you still see it your way I guess. I'm just glad you heard us out!

[@qutibahf]

Leonie from Fire Emblem: Three Houses!

[@Doctorolivercook]

Acknowledging your mistakes is certainly the wise thing to do. And about that Abby jab (It was hilarious to me), I agree with Josh: SJWs are NOTORIOUS contrarians and can't be reasoned with, unless they're separated from their computers and cellphones and go to psychological therapy for a year or two so that they realize that they are never liked due to the way they act and think, and THEREFORE should work hard to be better people. Really, these guys are venomous.

[@dejaypage1575]

You admit your mistake with the former, and scenes can be read incorrectly due to how they write it. And agreed on Abby. Sakura Oogami is legit one of my favorite female characters in video games and people mistake her for a guy with how jacked she is. But she’s in realign the sweetest and kindest person in the original DR cast

[@Twilightiger96]

No problem. For the former, while anyone can guess what exactly she did, but in the end Plutia still ended up heavily traumatizing a young girl she was taking care of, and that is not OK in anyone's book. Nothing to add to the latter, you basically hit the nail on the head.

[@eldiegollador7271]

I actually cheered when the pregnant lady called Abby a piece of shit.

[@alexmills9223]

And there was much rejoicing.

[@supermariofan03]

Even though she's no better. She could have stayed on base considering she's...well...PREGNANT!!

[@DR_L3G0]

THANK YOU!!! you wanna know something weird? my sister is a redhead named Abby and is very annoying as well

[@ddjsoyenby]

she's our hero!

[@raquelalejandrapatinoojeda8334]

"Chloe, WOULD IT KILL YOU TO STOP DYING?" That's it. That's Life is Strange in a nutshell. That's the whole game.

[@leonenciso1512]

Not at all.

[@raquelalejandrapatinoojeda8334]

@@leonenciso1512 ...It's a joke.

[@tsyumamatsuthehavenofguard32]

Before the Storm. ... it could've been so much better if they put a reset switch on her and made her likable. But no. Same sh(yay)t zone. Gotta wonder, was the second part any _good?_

[@KororaPenguin]

Chloe is made of bismuth, technetium, and hydrogen.

[@SeekersLegacy]

Considering LIS is, you know, an actually legitimately good game series. So...

[@anyathepanther7977]

"THIS ISNT SCOOBY DOO! CALL THE COP'S!" I should'nt laugh that hard. 🤣

[@kaitou88]

sounds like "Life is Strange" is a metaphor for an abusive relationship. you bend your reality to keep them in your life until your world is destroyed.

[@frankwest5388]

In that case it’s even worse. Because then the true message is: “even if your partner is a manipulative, abusive monster, you should still see them as the self sacrificing hero’s they are.” In other words, gaslighting is ok. Remember no matter which ending you choose, Chloe wins. She either gets to choose a martyr death, becoming a savior to all. Or she gets to live life with Max while leaving her responsibilities and issues behind

[@Lunacorva]

If that's the case, it's a brilliant IDEA. But I feel it falls apart due to the setting's literal mechanics.

[@Sewblon]

@@Lunacorva Interesting. Could you give me an example of that?

[@red5158077]

I... I'm currently going through a painful situation with my "Girlfriend" part of me wants out but another part wants to stay... I don't know what to do...

[@Sewblon]

@@red5158077 The fact that you put "Girlfriend" in quotes means that you should probably break up with them. In your mind, you all ready have.

[@DetectiveLance]

"Did you even GO to OCS, you complete and utter BOOT!?" -Probably the third most Marine thing I've heard Josh say.

[@fuzzyapplepie6940]

What were the first two?

[@kodyrowe-manns6360]

@@fuzzyapplepie6940 we need to know

[@daleketchup7434]

What number did he say that in?

[@clubpenguin13531]

@@daleketchup7434 number 7

[@pokemonfan8569]

@@daleketchup7434 The specific time for the quote is 10:54

[@inky5574]

Josh: Chloe is a manipulative, gaslighting, bratty, spoiled, and downright idiotic. John Wick: Whatever man. Josh: Did I mentioned she killed a dog? John Wick: Say no more!

[@Reapermaskhybrid]

The one from Life is Strange or the one from Miraculous Ladybug? They're both so scummy you can't tell the difference!

[@avalasialove]

@@Reapermaskhybrid I’m pretty sure the one from Miraculous Ladybug didn’t shoot a dog.

[@Reapermaskhybrid]

@@avalasialove Wouldn't surprise me if she did considering how much of a toxic person she became because of her neglectful mom and her spineless father. A bit harsh, I know, but I hate how she treads over everyone else and justifies it with her nepotistic safety net.

[@thejman5683]

This is exactly why I hate life is strange as a franchise,

[@Vigriff]

@@Reapermaskhybrid I have more pity for the one in Miraculous Ladybug than I ever will for the one in Life is Strange.

[@felipeborquez6370]

"I abused my power and I learned nothing" Doing a test at online classes with all your notes and PowerPoints at hand in a nutshell

[@GamerFromJump]

“Did you even GO to OCS, you complete and utter BOOT!?” Coming from a military family, I love this. My old man had to deal with no shortage of “Adams” in his career. Thankfully, he was mechanics, not combat arms, so he made it to retirement.

[@macgyver42563]

What I want to know, if you are willing to give an answer, is how do these so called "military officers" even get that much power in the first place? It's clearly not because they are competent soldiers, let alone good leaders.

[@fabiocandelori9163]

@@macgyver42563 I'm no military expert, but I think is the same way any incompetent person rises to a position they do not deserve: connections.

[@macgyver42563]

@@fabiocandelori9163 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[@georgemeyers7172]

@@fabiocandelori9163 Ah yes. The good old "Screw the Latter! I have CONNECTIONS!"

[@KororaPenguin]

​@@macgyver42563 The Peter Principle. Someone is, in fact, competent at a lower rank, so they get promoted. "The cream rises until it sours." And BOY does it sour sometimes!

[@kingofmonsters14]

for anyone wondering why he went off on Metroid's Adam Malkovich so intensely and so hard... Josh was in the military. i don't know if he still is or is on National Guard duty, but he was in the corps for a time, so seeing someone as stupid as Adam.... you can kinda see why.

[@JonVonBasslake]

You don't have to have been in the military to see the issues with him, though it probably makes it closer to home for Josh and other who've been in the military.

[@kingofmonsters14]

@@JonVonBasslake i can only imagine how he feels about Call of Duty. the boots on the ground type of games, none of the futuristic crap

[@fireline4765]

Josh is no longer in the military.

[@kingofmonsters14]

@@fireline4765 ok, there's that answer.

[@Ponaru]

The National Guard and the "corps" are two different things.

[@jazz-e-ternity]

I remember when playing life is strange I actively chose to not persue a romance with chloe, and when I was asked why not I just said 'she's given me no valid reason to. You really think I would want to date someone who tried to make me hang up on a friend who was assaulted and felt terrible from the bullying she’s getting? Why am I meant to like her?! '

[@destroyerblackdragon]

Because blue hair.

[@DeathKitta]

I guess the fact that you can date a girl with a girl was enough.

[@Brollyssweetface]

"BeCaUsE sHe'S sO rElAtAbLe."

[@dodojesus4529]

Plaht, thats why

[@Quandry1]

@@DeathKitta For many that seemed to be the case considering a lot of it all seemed to get waved away or even praised simply on the basis of "Because... Lesbian sex." Which is what I basically boiled it down to as a game in my personal viewpoint because it seemed to be the lynch pin to everything for me.

[@lunatic0verlord10]

One thing about Iris Heart. In the anime, she DOES keep the sexual harassment to her enemies and only turned her weapon on one of her allies when she was trying to beat some sense into her. And even then, she stuck to just standard attacks and didn't use her BDSM tricks and immediately stopped once her ally was able to get it together. Looks like even the devs realized that Iris Heart was going a bit too far.

[@shelbybayer200]

@@Waaagh40KRed Her voice for Plutia is the main reason I got Into Neptunia My first reaction to her "Aw, she's so adorable all sleepy and Lazy" That moment she transformed "It's true what they say ........ Don't underestimate the cute girl, she's probably gonna have a Whip to punish you with"

[@broccolinyu911]

As a Neptunia fan, game Iris pissed me off and really sullied Plutia's character. Animedimension Iris on the other hand enhanced Plutia.

[@ChromaLuke]

@@broccolinyu911 Plutia and Neptune in V really pissed me off that I was almost put off of the Neptunia series as a whole, because of those two solely. I still held hopes for VII and while it was better, to me the damage was already done so I just found myself unable to like the series again from that. And thanks to them, I went from a Planeptune believer to a Lastation believer.

[@broccolinyu911]

@@ChromaLuke honestly, Nep was so out of character in that one that she peeved me almost as much as Iris. That being said, I have many other problems with Victory/RB3 from a narrative standpoint than just Iris Heart.

[@ChromaLuke]

@@broccolinyu911 That game had a TON of narrative problems, with how Nepgear was made a punching bag to how Neptune kept bitching about her main character status to the sheer amount of sexual references... Honestly, it felt like a totally different game.

[@DarthJoshReturns]

In Chloe's defense for shooting Hank and his dog, it was in self-defense. However, one shitty thing I can't forgive the game for was when Chloe tried to steal money from a fundraiser for handicapped students. Later in the game, it's implied that the fundraiser was a scam. The game actually tried to justify Chloe stealing money from disabled kids. She didn't know it was a scam at the time.

[@miguellemir242]

And yet , for me, the clímax of Chloe toxicity is when you choose to destroy Arcadia Bay and drive towards the sunset...Leaving her mother, the woman that loves, cares and has done everything in her power for her sake, yo rot beneath the rubble. Chloe Price is a horrible person and Saving Arcadia is the objectively moral choice. Change my mind.

[@kristall5928]

@@miguellemir242 but that's completely optional. It's up to YOU to choose if the town lives or not.

[@zachanikwano]

@@kristall5928 You don’t get to choose whether or not you bury and mourn the dead. I mean, it’d kinda be rubbing salt in the wound after condemning them all to die for a toxic romance/friendship.

[@kristall5928]

@@zachanikwano a lot of them were saveable. And in the end you can simply choose to rewind and sacrifice Chloe to keep the town. That's literally what happens if you play the game. If you choose to sacrifice chloe you go back in time and allow nathan to kill her.

[@richardimreviragosi6413]

@@kristall5928 I mean, that doesn't even make sense in-story (if "changes to time cause the tornado" it'd still happen because Max cannot act as if she didn't have all those memories, and if "lives being saved causes the tornado" then Max saved her own life by not jumping out and screaming like she originally did). Regardless, her reaction to all she loves dying doesn't really change much, and her "stepdouche" showed more grief than her at her mother's own death. The fact that you can stop that from happening doesn't change that she, with her character, reacts that way.

[@Nexils]

Max: "One minute, Chloe, a friend of mine who is severely getting bullied and might be on the verge of committing suicide is calling me right now. I have to pick it up." Chloe: "Omg, Max, how DARE you spend a minute or two on someone who ISN'T me?!?! You're the WORST!"

[@sethleoric2598]

That makes her sound like the type of person to have little red crosses on the eyes of all Max's other partners (if she had any)

[@opalander]

She's the kind of friend that might end up being overly possessive of you later down the road.

[@royaldarkness8453]

anyone know who/which game is at 1:27 ? (the one with crystal armor/sword there ?)

[@morganeparlouer7739]

@@royaldarkness8453 That's Siegfried from Soul Calibur, this scene is from Soul Calibur 5 but he's only playable with this armor in Soul Calibur 4

[@royaldarkness8453]

@@morganeparlouer7739 thank for the answer

[@xtiandg0914]

So how about Beloved Characters By Accident? Characters who the creators imagined wouldn't be liked but ultimately became a fan favorite. Miu Iruma from Danganronpa V3 should get in that list because series creator Kodaka admitted he did not expect Miu to be extremely popular and thought she'd be hated,

[@ShadowWolfRising]

I like this suggestion, let's do that one.

[@aneonfoxtribute]

I wouldn't say Miu would count. He didn't expect her to be liked, no, but that's different from her being likable by mistake.

[@CountShaman]

As for a V3 character who should go on this list, then make room for Maki. Kodaka apparently really hoped she would be popular, but not only is she barely liked in Japan, but most of the localized fanbase loathe her and find her to be one of the worst characters in the series.

[@bru9383]

That sounds nice.

[@roxas4930]

@TooLateToTheStory kokichi

[@XenoJehuty84]

One problem with Joel being 'evil'. The Last of Us Part II actually cemented he did the *RIGHT* thing in saving Ellie. The Fireflies plan for Ellie would not have worked, she'd have died, for nothing. So yeah, any justification of Abby's actions was further negated because her Dad and his colleagues were about to kill a young girl because they insisted she was the means for a vaccine without much solid proof beyond 'oh look she seems immune, let's cut her up to study the means and extract it for a cure!'. If Joel let them take Ellie the end result would have been no vaccine due to the nature of Ellie's 'immunity, and an innocent life snuffed out by A-holes insisting they knew better. I know from the POV of the first game Joel's actions come off as potentially damning to humanity; if you take the greater good for all mankind into account. Well, it doesn't matter because the writers deemed Ellie would have died for nothing, so Joel made the right call even if it was for selfish reasons. The second game can't even get its justification right with the crappy writing. Congrats Neil Drunkman, you gave us more reasons to hate Abby.

[@yeetthebeatout6906]

Adding on, wasn’t it the fireflies that were cited in the opening credits as the source of anti-government attacks in safe-zones, demanding all branches of military be brought back?

[@itsdantaylor]

Agree. I think the main kind of 'theme' of the game is that most people need to find a 'reason' to survive in the apocalypse but ultimately these meanings, no matter how 'noble' or 'good' they may appear, ultimately are as fragile and pointless in the grand scheme of nature and the universe in general. We're talking about the survival of humanity but as we see in the scene with the giraffes, hard contrasted to the horrors that came before and after, maybe humanity doesn't NEED to survive. We're just biased because we're human

[@ntfoperative9432]

@@yeetthebeatout6906 yes, it's because of the fireflies that Marshall Law was enforced, and many innocent lives were ended, not just soldiers

[@Falxifer95]

What's especially infuriating about TLOU2 is how when you really get down to it and put the plot on brass text, its ultimately a story about shitty people making excuses to justify their shittiness, or worse, as is Ellie's case, a good person being FORCED to become shitty because "vengeance bad" which yeah, no duh, but vengenace and cold, brutal and sadistic cruelty and a cavalier willingness to use *TORTURE* aren't interchangeable.

[@FillmGeekOfDoom]

@@itsdantaylorAnd yet that’s why I HATE this series: it’s so bleak and nihilistic that there’s almost nothing to care about. Druckman wants to make his answer to The Walking Dead, except the original WD comics were about humanity having to ultimately come together and cooperate to survive and rebuild and, in the end, they succeed against all odds. Robert Kirkman gave a message of hope in his work. There is no “hope” in The Last of Us. Just “Every man for themselves”. And FUCK that noise.

[@mistermaxie6487]

I'm glad everyone in this comment section can agree that calling Joel 'evil' is a flat out wrong gesture. It's good to know that people can agree on things still.

[@whiteeye3453]

And fact that tsou2 was $shit%

[@08415]

Joel was selfish and misguided, but not evil, especially since we learn in the sequal the fireflies plan was a failure & would have only succeed in killing Ellie were it carried out

[@SpencerStudios]

15:14 "I abused my power and I learned nothing" Back at the Barnyard needs to be used more often as a clip source. There's too many great quotes.

[@turbobist2889]

Which episode did thisnclip come from?

[@DariusFrench6273]

@@turbobist2889 the episode where the other animals spied on Betty where she bought supplies for Weird Al Yankovich

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

"A strong man stands up for himself, a stronger man stands up for others"

[@thelancerfromtimeline1009]

Viewer mail

[@Ravengirl0814]

Honestly, the show and movie aren’t anything to write home about, but the Barnyard has had some decent memes

[@kaneaquino8295]

Now the opposite: Top 10 Most Loved Characters We're suppose to hate

[@ericwijaya2119]

One of them is Hades, that's for sure.

[@ericwijaya2119]

And Bowser

[@ericwijaya2119]

And Dimentio

[@ericwijaya2119]

And Fawful

[@victorjr9369]

Joel

[@Chinaski83]

Spot on about Abby. Disagree entirely about Joel being “evil.” Selfish, misguided but..evil? His decision being rooted in such pain and love make him more of a tragic figure to me.

[@Jirodyne]

He doomed the entire planet he could have cured.... Cause he grew attached to mechandise he was transported. You want to understand why he is so evil? Swap out the disease. Instead of some fake zombie based disease, put Covid in it's place. Have him transporting someone with the Cure, but instead of allowing the cure be made, decided to fuck everything up, and allow Covid to kill most people on the planet... Cause he couldn't keep himself from seeing the mechandise as his dead daughter. Understand now how fucking stupid and fundamentally evil he is yet? He doomed his entire world, because he wanted to adopt a new replacement daughter. ------ Now my 2 cents on Abby, I am one of the people that hated Abby for being so Muscular, on top of everything said in this video. Not cause Muscular Women intemidate me or anything, but because for the world that was created, Abby's Muscular Body doesn't fit. Every other character looks normal, she sticks out as a sore thumb as being wrong and unbelievable. Because remember it's the end of the world. There are no cities, no towns, no stores, no gyms, no medicine, no drugs. Abby is part of a group of people, that have to go hunt down food just to survive, and yet she can eat, she can Train and Lift, and can find enough Steroid Drugs, to get Muscular, in an end of the world situation, surviving off scraps without machines or technology to create processed food or drugs, and no guides anywhere on 'how to keep in shape'. How? How the fuck could she do that? That time, a LOT of dedicated every day time to strict regulated regiment to train, and requires strict diet needs. None of which they have in a zombie post-apocolyptic world. THAT is why I hated her muscular looks, cause it defies logic, and that the only reason she looks like that, is outside the game bullshit Social Justice reasons.

[@sirapple589]

jirodyne While I agree with your opinion about Abby (it’s worth noting that steroids expire within 10 years and the apocalypse has been going on for 20), I disagree about Joel being as evil as you say. There is no proof that the Fireflies could have made a vaccine or cure, there’s a high likelihood of them killing Ellie and it being for nothing. Another thing to note is that the last thing you’d want to do with someone that’s immune to your fungal virus is to kill them. You’d want to keep them alive as much as possible, they’d be the number one priority in survival because they alone hold the chance of a cure or a treatment.

[@Kaylakaze]

Joel is a mass murderer. He's evil. He discusses in the game how he used to be a bandit and murder innocent people. And the ending proves he hasn't gotten any better.

[@vitormaodevaca8469]

@@Kaylakaze to be fair the rest are just as evil,if not even more its the apocalypse,there's no room for being "good",its a waste of time and it will get you killed very early on

[@Kaylakaze]

@@vitormaodevaca8469 There's always room to not slaughter innocent people.

[@AutumnCrusader]

How Adam could have been fixed: MB hacks Samus when she arrives and while taking the mission control role he does, he's restoring Samus' systems It would even have made the Lava Run make sense, when she gets there he puts her Varia suit as top priority, finally restoring it when they reach the boss

[@OrangeyChocolate]

Holy shit, with just this one fix I can picture an entirely different scenario for Other M. Adam could have truly acted as a constant companion to Samus, offering advice and support during the adventure instead of being a sociopath on a power trip. Just a few tweaks to Adam Malcovich’s writing (or the writing in general) and Other M might even have been regarded as a flawed but nonetheless respectable entry in the series.

[@AutumnCrusader]

@@OrangeyChocolate Heh, sometimes all you need is a pebble in the right place to change the path of a river

[@WillieManga]

That would be an awesome fix there. Sure, it'd come out of left field since her abilities have always been physically taken away in the past instead of deactivated digitally, but it still would have fit the Metroid formula since it was usually a villain who destroyed or took them instead of an ally.

[@thegreatgonzales6813]

@@AutumnCrusader Damn, not only do you singlehandedly offer a massive improvement for one of the worst written characters in a video game, but you then follow it up with an awesome one-liner. Nothing but respect my friend.

[@AutumnCrusader]

@@thegreatgonzales6813 This was nice to wake up to, thank you

[@K4RN4GE911]

In regards to Chloe, to quote Ross Scott from Game Dungeon: "You got hella shot!"

[@popawebmeister2966]

That's kind of the point of the game though :p Death coming after Chloe because Max helped her escape it.

[@CrimsonColbat]

Chloe is weird the entire game falls apart if you can’t get behind that relationship.

[@Sugarman96]

I'm surprised Josh didn't even talk about the prequel, she's somehow even more awful in that game.

[@nobody2996]

@@Sugarman96 Rachel Amber eclipses her shittiness in the prequel... Mostly because she's Chloe 2.0.

[@TheAndrassa]

Yeah thinking about her character for more than a minute just highlights how awful she is. The whole thing with David is played storywise like he is being too strict but when you play the prequel and find out Chloe has been threatened by drug dealers and there is even some off hand mention in the first game they threatened Joyce it kind of becomes justified that David uses the tough love and forbids her from using pot. Hell even Frank doesn’t like her doing it because it just leads Chloe to get into more shit.

[@maverickdarkrath4780]

@@TheAndrassa it says a lot when the alternative universe version of her is bearly on screen for very long but comes off as a better person than out chloe who's always present

[@pippo17173]

@@TheAndrassa At this point, I don't get how the game doesn't make her a villain. It would of made the entire game worth playing because it would of been a good look of how abusive people look and how you can break it.

[@Munchkin.Of.Pern09]

Does it help with the whole “Joel is evil and needs to face consequences for his actions at the end of The Last Of Us (1)” thing if you know that the Fireflies were being utterly stupid, fungus can’t be reliably vaccinated against, and what they actually needed from Ellie was her antibodies, which they couldn’t get if they killed her? Game Theory did a whole episode on this stuff.

[@khosrowzare8301]

Yeah, Ellie's life on the line or not, I would kill the Firefly dudes for the crime of botching the scentific process alone.

[@brodybazzini6729]

It was probably an oversight by Naughty Dog, but you can kinda make it work.

[@Toadzx]

Even if it worked the way the game portrays it the fireflies were still in the wrong. You don’t kill a person for research for a CHANCE at a cure. Especially if it’s not a voluntary sacrifice (which I can’t remember if she knew she would die or not).

[@brodybazzini6729]

@@Toadzx Ellie knew that she would die. Also, if they were actual doctors, they'd have to break the Hippocratic oath, which says that you can't take one person's life to save another.

[@lordofchaosinc.261]

@@Toadzx Exactly, Joel isn't morally ambigous at all as everyone claims. It's funny that still needs to be discussed in 2020.

[@PaperFlare]

Adam shooting Samus in the back would have actually worked really well...had his character been portrayed in even a slightly redeeming light. Say that, instead of the condescending snark and the authorization, Adam lets Samus do her own thing, giving her information and updates as she (and the soldiers) progress through the various areas in separate missions. Through the game it is supposed to be shown that Adam is an honest, trustworthy, and good person, even though he works for the corrupt military complex. And then during the big reveal that the military had been bioengineering metroids, he shoots Samus in the back. A kind of "oh shit" moment when you're supposed to think that he betrayed you and that he was just as corrupt as the rest of the military. Instead, he stays true to his selfless image Samus has of him and uses that moment to sacrifice himself to save Samus, someone who (in his eyes) is far more important than he is. Plus they could even tie it all back into his brother's death where he's now sacrificing himself to appease the guilt he had carried for all those years. In fact, I get the idea that this is what they actually WERE going for. But the dismissive, stupid, and frankly sexist character he was portrayed as throughout the game detracted from that and made the sacrifice seem as yet another notch in his "Samus is a stupid woman who can't be trusted to get the job done" belt. God, Other M was such a shit show. Thanks for bringing back memories of...that...

[@wattsink2009]

26:52 “Portrayal of something is not the same as condoning it.” Truer words were never spoken! ✊

[@JaelinBezel]

And “Portrayal of something is not the same as mocking it.”

[@K4RN4GE911]

Main reason why I still like Alphys from Undertale despite being a (dis)honorable mention is because of the responsibility you know she's feeling due to her part in the accidental creation of the amalgamates. Every single ending where either Undyne or Mettaton or God forbid BOTH end up killed, it's said she just up and "disappears." In the phone call at the save point at the garbage dump, Undyne says she saw Alphys looking over the bottomless chasm and states that she, "looked contemplative about something." I empathize with her due to the immense guilt she feels. She flubbed up and the suicidal tendencies she winds up developing hit a little too close to home.

[@Superluigi881]

I can't hate Alphys for what she's done because I'm guilty of the same thing in a way. In the past whenever I fucked up really badly my anxiety would flare up and I'd try to hide it and pretend everything was okay. I still do sometimes to this day. Granted I've never ruined anyone's lives through my actions, at least not that I know of, but you get the point. She's also dealing with the insecurities of trying to measure up to Gaster who was heavily praised when he was still around.

[@sarafontanini7051]

plsu she never intentionally hurt anyone, her only sin is not owning up to what she did sooner, and overall she feels incredibly guilty about it. So yeah.

[@bru9383]

Couldn't agree more.

[@newbiegamelover4767]

Same. Plus, I didn't find her interruptions all that annoying; some of them were actually kinda funny!

[@amirgarcia547]

Not only that, but she actually decided to come clean in the end (even it took a while), and actually faces consequences for it due to Toriel firing her from her role as royal scientist.

[@forfaerghus8092]

Honestly, Takumi's my favorite of the Fates royals because he's one of the few that doesn't put Corrin on a pedestal. He's too haunted by his personal demons. I think the drama CDs did wonders for his character.

[@heroofmobius6616]

Oh! Where an I hear this?

[@Doze1202]

My only problem with him is in Revelation. Because Izana was practically begging Takumi to join Corrin to take down the real enemy, but he’s like: “But he’s a traitor, he’s not supporting Hoshido.” From that point on, Takumi begrudgingly joined Corrin’s side. And it freaking sucks that Izana LITERALLY had to beg him and said if he didn’t, he’d haunt Takumi for the rest of his life, and only then, he was annoyingly reluctant about it

[@takeshikujo2909]

“This isn’t Scooby Doo! CALL THE COPS!!!” One of my favorite lines of all time right here. And one that needs to be said more often in certain media. 😂

[@NeoWishblade]

"And then there's Anders..." Me, with the same name: "I'm innocent, I tells ya!"

[@Ramsey276one]

Matching names are such FUN Sometimes...

[@shadowsnake5133]

That's exactly what a GUILTY PERSON WOULD SAY, ADMIT IT, YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING WRONG!

[@thegamingknight642]

So DA:II Anders gave... the name "Anders"... a bad name!?

[@MediaGhost_]

I KNOW WHAT YOU'VE DONE!!!

[@kaimcdragonfist4803]

Chloe was THE reason I didn't continue with Life is Strange past Episode 2. She's freaking insufferable in more ways than her cringey dialogue, and the game does absolutely nothing to address just how terrible of a friend she is to Max. Though watching Adum from YMS play it was a pretty great experience.

[@leonenciso1512]

That guy is Cringe.

[@Chris47629]

She’s not in part 2

[@spongebobfan78]

28:52 At the very least, the anime version of her is way better. She uses sexual tension to get info from an enemy, attacked her teammate as a way to make them realize that they're bottling up their feelings and she's actually way supportive to the group than using her transformation as her tantrum to get the story moving. Plus, the spin-offs uses more of Plutia's ditzyness than her Iris Heart form, and the only spin-off where she is very sadistic and loves to assault, is where she's actually called out on it and her reason for doing so fits the story.

[@DemonKingCozar]

So, at the ending of the last of us, i didnt kill a single person in gameplay besides the one doctor. So when they say that he went on a killing spree, I'm just like "Thats not how it went for my game"

[@WaryObserver]

Now Top Ten Loved Characters We're Supposed To Hate or at least ended up being loved, maybe Characters that were supposed to be a one time only thing but came back due gaining popularity. Unintentional or not.

[@Ori_Kohav]

Norman Osborn in Marvel's Spiderman on ps4. All that crap he did in the experiment with Devil's Breath, it was all to find a cure for his son.

[@blackliquidsorrow8249]

(One of Josh's writers here) I've been thinking of doing a list like this but I really can't find a whole lot of candidates

[@WaryObserver]

@@blackliquidsorrow8249 True on that, hard to do such a list, but would be interesting to see still, thanks for the reply. Greetings to Josh, his editors and writers here, his Videos are always great with his inside jokes on top, greetings from Germany here.

[@amirgarcia547]

@@Ori_Kohav True, and despite Norman still doing some very morally questionable things, like experimenting on Li and indirectly causing his parents to die, most of the events in the game only happen because Li (and later on Otto) decide to get revenge on Norman and have him pay for his actions.

[@psychie8625]

Characters who were supposed to be a one time thing but came back due to gaining popularity? If Shadow the Hedgehog wasn't on the list, I would- (censored)

[@mastertadakatsu]

Ironically both Anders and Justice where good characters in DA: Awakening.

[@SilverNightbane]

Sadly, the people who wrote the good stuff weren't there for DA2 AFAIK. Anders was basically "Mage Alistair" in Awakening and the only reason I found him to be a jackass in 2 was because he couldn't keep his cat... Since they couldn't program cats into DA2. For shaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.

[@MoostachedSaiyanPrince]

Josh didn't directly address this, but it goes along well with how Anders was a great character right up until the Chantry burning. He was good in both the Awakening expansion as well as DA2 up until he and Vengeance decided to become a terrorist no matter what Hawk does. Even the way the spirit of Justice became a spirit of Vengeance after Anders allowed him to possess him was compelling and felt like a natural progression of both characters. But the way the writing team of DA2 handled it was a mess, and they ruined 2 really good characters by doing it.

[@kingofmonsters14]

i smell a redemption arc are in store for those two, like in Dragon Age 4 or 5 or however many they are going to make, they sacrifice themselves to destroy the final big bad.

[@MoostachedSaiyanPrince]

@@kingofmonsters14 Honestly, I feel like that would really fall into the "too little, too late" problem that Josh had with a lot of these characters. And I would agree with that. Assuming Anders and Vengeance/Justice are still alive, as I'm pretty sure you can choose to execute them during the climax of DA2, the time for them to pitch in and potentially redeem themselves would have long passed by. A spirit possessing a Grey Warden would've been immensely useful during the mage and templar war that they caused and during the Corypheus crisis that came after, but Anders and Vengeance chose to stay hidden and not risk their necks fixing the mess they made. They hid like cowards when they were needed most, and even if they're given a redemption arc later, it would still be far too late to make up for their mistakes. At least, that's how I see it. But I'm sure that the new and greatly diminished Bioware wouldn't be above trying, so you're probably right that we'll see something like that in the future.

[@LucasC2022]

Not really, Anders is just mage alistair in awakening, and justice, by design, is super one note. Very boring imo.

[@ntfoperative9432]

Another thing about TLOU2, in all but one case, All of Ellie's kills are self defense ( not counting gameplay kills, because that's player choice), including the pregnant woman, you couldn't tell she was pregnant because of the baggy coat, and she was actively trying to kill Ellie, even though she would have let them go if they cooperated

[@rinraiden]

Abby was the first one I thought of. Never have a hated a fictional character as much as I do her. There is just zero redeeming qualities about her.

[@thincrustpizzasucks5920]

100% dead ass

[@daamazinfatb0y752]

Hell yes!

[@MordaxTenebre]

Preach my man Preach. REFUSE to buy another Naughty dog game.

[@BriarPatchNyra]

Purely if you like Joel. I always hated him.

[@MordaxTenebre]

@@BriarPatchNyra All the "evil" he did, was to save a girl he came to view as a daughter.

[@EmeraldGlow981]

THANK YOU! I could never get behind liking Chloe. She was always so annoying and tropey for me to like her. I couldn't understand people who actually sacrificed the town for her. Even worse, the second game seems to try and imply sacrificing the town is better in the long run cause Chloe and Max are happy now.

[@zcgamerandreacts2762]

I hate her for killing the dog. Like I'm fine that Max is a lesbian but being with chole is just a bad choice she's disgusting and demanding. And she forces Max to use her powers when using her powers too much it'll killer her in the process! CHOLE! THERE ARE LIMITS TO PSYCHIC ABILITIES YA KNOW!? Eleven has her limits! Max has her limits. Some other super heroes have limits to their psychic abilities. If they use it too much or get carried away. They'll either become evil and unstable. Or is dying slowly because they weren't suppose to use their powers to their full potential because given their mental health and body. Like eleven or Max who I already mentioned but others I don't the names of but they have been through crap like that.

[@KinakoIshiyama]

@@zcgamerandreacts2762 Agreed. If the writers wanted Max in a lesbian relationship, then Kate would be a better choice. She's kind and caring and there could be a subplot where Max helps her through her insecurities. Something that, might I add, Chloe threw a bratty fit about when Max wanted to do just that!

[@zcgamerandreacts2762]

@@KinakoIshiyama yeah that could have been better. Also I wish for Chole to be erased from the universe completely.

[@zcgamerandreacts2762]

@Michael Prymula good for you.

[@KororaPenguin]

"Leech" in the sense of "physician"* still appears in high fantasy and historical fiction. So unless she's a doctor in-game, that's a second sense of the word that doesn't fit. * From Proto-Germanic "lēkijaz", possibly borrowed from Proto-Celtic. Of course, with the humors theory blown to pieces, leechcraft rarely involves the use of the creatures called leeches anymore.

[@Bladedwind]

I would like to make an argument for Takumi. While I had good moments with Fates as a game overall, it seemed weird that all the Avatar's Hoshidan siblings just kind of unconditionally trust the player character after spending all that time essentially being raised in Nohr. I feel he SHOULD be distrusting, and is the smartest one for doing so

[@ferro6854]

Pretty much this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aqaQqKx8ZbuYrdE

[@thegreenitalianmachine5411]

I feel like it's different from both games (Revelations doesn't exists.) In Conquest, Takumi flat out wants ALL of Nohr dead, Including the Avatar (I'll say just Corrin.) just because he/she joined Nohr and killed his mother (Let's be real, The sword Corrin got was used for plot.), which is odd. Then he falls off the wall Because he couldn't kill Corrin and came back in Endgame as a vessel? And then when Corrin is in that one wack area with Ryoma and Mikoto, Takumi now trusts Corrin because he's dead now? And now his Vessel wants everything dead? What? (Also, Conquest Endgame on Lunatic is a bitch if you don't cheese it.) It seemed like Takumi in Conquest was made to be disturbed just for the hell of it now. He became a vessel because Garon existed and Conquest writing kinda sucks. He could have been an interesting character for the Nohr side of things, showing that he actually once HAD trust in Corrin, but lost it all a long time ago. but no, we get Takumi screaming "I am Betrayal" because of some ha ha funny Conquest writing. In Birthright, he still doesn't trust Corrin all too much when he/she Join Hoshido, which is actually a smart move on Takumi's part, Corrin hasn't been in Hoshido in god knows how long, so he has the right idea of not trusting Corrin at all, yet his family says to trust Corrin because they chosed Hoshido over Nohr, which is one of the dumbest things I've seen in an FE Game. But then Takumi, the one who HAD the right idea of not trusting someone he didn't know, randomly trusts them because Birthright Story BS, yet calls out his siblings for loving Corrin so much even though he has the right idea of NOT trusting Corrin. He just's changes on the fly and now trusts Corrin Fully with the final encounter with Iago, (Even though it's like the final 3 chapters of the game,) which IDK if it's good for writing or not. TL;DR, Takumi was made to be disturbing in Conquest for the hell of it and because Garon existed, and in Birthright he HAD the right idea of not trusting Corrin, which could have made him a better character, but fell flat because of Birthright's writing. (I won't deny though, Fates has some pretty good supports, but then we have some bad ones, Looking at you Saizo and Beruka.) Damn, I wrote a lot.

[@donovansingleton9096]

Hey, Baldune! What's up man? You played in my dnd game forever ago

[@Bladedwind]

@@donovansingleton9096 Really? Which game was that? I've been in a few but if you mention the campaign or characters I may remember lol. Though if I was playing Baldune I have a good idea what campaign it might have been. Lot of bollywogs right?

[@donovansingleton9096]

@@Bladedwind yup! That one! I recognized the picture, and thought, no fuckin' way

[@TakingThingsLiterary8902]

When you raged about Adam it got cut off by an add for high blood pressure 🤣

[@user-mx4is4fx3c]

"Bigot sandwich" is still one of the funniest sentences I have ever heard in a game

[@Chris47629]

Don’t forget Jill sandwich

[@ryanm.8720]

"Now, you've destroyed the world's most dangerous sandwich!" - Leopold Fitz, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., "The Hub"

[@No_Sleepee]

Holy shit... After that Adam Malkovich entry, uhh... Josh? You need a glass of water?

[@BigHailFan]

no no, he needs to keep going.....longer....

[@heroofmobius6616]

Right sheesh

[@epsyblue7714]

Chloe is also ok with Max getting in trouble for the weed she smoked and will guilt her over it even if Max hid like she told her to. Honestly, most of the Garcia family was . . . heavily flawed. Except for Mariana.

[@inky5574]

Cause the only notable thing she ever did was getting killed

[@sabbathb6548]

Plus it she did it pretty quick which mean she possibly did this before. Also if Max admits to the lie it screws her over later. Thanks Chloe!

[@oldschoolman9878]

I knew that Abby was going to be on this list

[@Vigriff]

Believe me Josh, I also get immensely pissed and annoyed when bad military officer stereotypes pop up. *Glares at the Royal Guard from FiM*

[@silverflight01]

"Where…Are… *T H E G U A R D S ? ! ? !"*

[@Vigriff]

@@reecemota4028 MLP: Friendship is Magic.

[@KororaPenguin]

"An off-duty mail carrier from Ponyville had to step in to do a FRACTION of your job, and she got turned to stone for her pains! To call you goldbricks "boots" would be an INSULT to RAW RECRUITS!"

[@DarkSeraph95]

To be fair, Takumai had the most realistic reaction to Corrin

[@matthewkuscienko4616]

If you mean out of his siblings, than yes, I have to agree; it makes sense that Corrin would need to prove himself to them after spending his life growing up in Nohr. It was also made clear that deep down, despite Takumi's reaction to Corrin, he did want to be able to love and accept Corrin as his brother/sister, but just had to overcome his resentment and insecurities before being able to truly open up to Corrin

[@frankspick7544]

@@matthewkuscienko4616 plus that there are the place has very bad image for people from nohr

[@medoagamer9497]

I would also like to add that while Takumi does start out harsh and cold towards Corrin and other Nohran characters, he does start accepting and warming up to them.

[@matthewkuscienko4616]

@@medoagamer9497 That is true; they have this happen because he's one of the central characters in the game, so it only makes sense that he would sooner or later. It's also necessary for him to eventually be able to achieve an s support with one of the girls in the game, and it's also mentioned that he didn't used to be the way he is when you first meet him in-game.

[@sirensong1794]

Yeah, I feel like the fandom is simultaneously like "Oh Corrin's such a Mary Sue because everyone likes them automatically" and then turn around and go "God, Takumi's so rude to Corrin and the people who've killed his father and invaded his country. How dare he!" Like choose one.

[@Christian-gr3gu]

I really don't get why people hate joel for that ending. The fire fly are so inept about curing the fungus and they didn't even give joel his end of the bargain, giving him his guns. They we're about to toss his sorry ass on the street with nothing on him, not even the guns he already has, and without letting him at least seeing Ellie. Oh and they didn't even get her consent soooooo why is he hated?

[@ArcCaravan]

Because people feel they should've been sacrificed to "save humanity". I don't agree, but I get why they feel that way.

[@williamharmon4039]

@Michael Prymula I think this is ultimately based just on his opinion though. Although I still can't agree with his stance on Joel.

[@emberfist8347]

@Michael Prymula Except no there are plenty of people who hate her for good reason. Also he understood the ending.

[@NieroshaiTheSable]

@Michael Prymula He brings up SJWs to handwave people who legit obsessed over her body. That's a thing that happened. So he's either tuned out or part of the club...

[@redst0114]

Because Josh and many others are incapable of comprehending how the vast majority of people would likely do the same thing to protect the people they love, and they also wrongfully expect for those people to somehow receive karmic justice for their actions, naive to how the world actually works and how unpredictable it can be.

[@fodv93]

Josh hating Chloe in Life is Strange *E;R has joined the chat*

[@bluewolf6323]

What's weird is, back when I first watched Life Is Strange, I really loved Chloe x Max, i thought it was a cute trope you know. But, now that I'm much older than my young teenage self, Ye, I can't make excuses for Chloe. I looked way too much at the light moments of Max saving Chloe and them having cute moments. Glad I caught that

[@Hilversumborn]

10: I actually did the same thing as Vanille once, and hate myself for it. 9: Edgy try-hards always come across unintentionally funny. 8: Can we make a case of Takumi being Xenophobic? 7: Now I finally understand the hatred Metroid: Other M got, I never played it but I heard about the infamy. 6: This is why I hate time travel, it's basically a 'get out of jail' card. 5: People who like/identify/see themselves in Cloe, actually make me paranoid of them. 4: It's not a coincidence that Raiden became a better character when Rose was put on a bus. 3: I feel the same way, TLOU II had all the pieces but they put them in the wrong place. 2: In the anime they actually portray Iris better. 1: You make some great points about Anders, I actually really like the Mage vs Templar conflict in the game and that Hawke is doing his/her best to meditate the conflict but that it unfortunately boils over because of the actions of one of your party members, which I believe was the only way Hawke could not have prevented it. I do feel that Anders betrayal is done well because as the templars become more extreme so does he, I didn't execute him because I felt like 'No, you're not gonna be a martyr and be relieved from your actions, you're gonna live and face what you started'.

[@Vigriff]

I'm not particularly fond of time travel myself, especially if it shows right out of nowhere and/or implemented extremely poorly.

[@derrickhaggard]

To be fair most of DMC: Devil May Cry's writing that was bad especially with Dante that was all Capcom to be more specific Capcom Japan thinking that was what we fans in the West liked in our protagonist, and story. Ninja Theory actually wanted to have a version of the character that struck a balance between the two incarnations basically in their original draft of the script they proposed Dante starts out as the "unlikeable edgelord douchebag" that Capcom wanted him to be but after the first few levels he actually goes through a character arc that is decently paced that sees him become not a total copy-paste of Dante from Devil May Cry 3, 4, and 5 but still has that same likeable playful/cocky humor we know and love however Capcom again to be specific Capcom Japan in a attempt to insure the versions of the character are different pretty much forced Ninja Theory to rewrite the entire script under their supervision with the tone, and dialogue they wanted.

[@Goleon]

@@derrickhaggard - So another f-up via Capcom’s higher ups. Yeah makes sense. Glad they’re finally learning. Now if they only get MML3 back on track for a release. (seriously that game was almost finished when Capcom shelved it out of bitterness over the franchise’s creator leaving)

[@derrickhaggard]

@@Goleon Pretty much yeah this was a f-up caused by the higher-ups of Capcom Japan. The head of Ninja Theory has came out in reports and stated the "lackluster, insulting, try-hard edgy tone, and characterization of the writing both in the overall plot, and characters including the infamous Not in a million years quote." was all decisions made by the higher-ups at Capcom Japan. Basically Ninja Theory didn't want DMC: Devil May Cry to be marketed as a full reboot they wanted it marketed as a Dante origin story set in an alternate universe, but again the higher-ups at Capcom Japan told Ninja Theory no on the whole market it as a Dante origin story set in an alternate universe and have it be marketed as a full reboot. The most well-known example of the higher-ups Capcom Japan pretty much screwing up by not letting Ninja Theory go forward with their ideas was Dante's design when it was first revealed basically when DMC Dante's design was first revealed it had what fans called the skunk-hair color basically the black hair with a strip of white hair running down the middle again this look was Ninja Theory trying to make a version of the character that was a balance between the two incarnations the edgy incarnation Capcom Japan wanted for this game, and the likeable, smartass playful/cocky incarnation we all know and love, but the higher-ups at Capcom Japan shot this design down because they wanted this incarnation of Dante to be "totally different from the original incarnation." And the only reason why Ninja Theory unfairly gets all of the blame is due to the fact they worked on both Heavenly Sword, and Enslaved: Journey to the West games that got mixed reviews.

[@lazwardazure716]

Yes yes we can. the fact that no one addresses this in game is strange (Minus the fact that he has a fellow Xenophobe as his guard doesn't help spoilers i hate her too)

[@ChrisX_212]

Now THIS is how you do a 'Hated Character' List. You know, the Countdown community has been AVERSE with making 'hated character' list because, well I'll even agree with them that just devolving into Angrish Yelling to channel HATE is not gonna make you look dignified and good. Good job, let's hope more of these are coming. That said, yeah, it's totes OK to put Takumi in the list as the FE Fates rep (because if this is Green Scorpion, Corrin would've taken the spot. No guessing on which position, it'd be too easy!)

[@emberfist8347]

Well for there are two types of people who go on hated characters lists. People like this who we are supposed to like, and people who go well past love to hate for different reasons.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Wait, what?

[@emberfist8347]

@@ChiefMedicPururu Well sometimes there are characters you are meant to hate or at least love to hate but you end hating them for reasons that are not why you are supposed to hate them. For example the Countdown Community punching bag Jasper Batt Jr. Most of the hate is less due to him killing Bishop and more because his boss fight is poorly designed.

[@sodaftpm185]

@@emberfist8347 Except Jasper Batt Jr's fights are intended to be parodies of anticlimactic boss fights from bad movies and video games. It's a meta narrative about how revenge isn't really satisfying.

[@emberfist8347]

@@sodaftpm185 That is a load of crap. It would be like saying the reason the controls of Spec-Ops: The Line was bad was because it was deliberate which the developers explicitly said wasn't the case. Claiming it was a parody doesn't work after the fact particularly when Travis said just before the fight this about more than revenge since his arc for the game already had him realize revenge wasn't satisfying and he killing Jasper not because of his friend's death but because he wants destroy the entire UAA to make sure that nobody suffers because of them. The Autarch explains this in his Top 10 Worst Bosses I faced.

[@Samagachi]

Chloe was alright in that timeline where she gets confined to a wheelchair.

[@avalasialove]

I just wish the writers put care into giving players something to like about Chloe beyond mere pity.

[@kylestubbs8867]

You mean the one where she asked to be euthanized? Yeah, that was briefly mentioned.

[@Ghostrama13]

To be fair the fandom rewrites Chloe in fanfics and comics so we tend to forget some stuff

[@TheOneTrueOtaku1]

9) To be fair to NinjaTheory, they wanted to stick closer to the originals but Capcom forced them to be different. The director on the other hand, yeah he stuck his foot in his mouth more than once. 7) Hoo boy. Even as one of the few people that doesn’t hate Other M, yeah, Adam and the story in general is... special. 4) Fair enough. 2) Even as an admitted weeb, I loathe the “accidental perv get get slapped, lol so funny” trope.

[@SpawnofThee]

While the story is pure trash, I do always say that the gameplay is great for the most part.

[@LinkMarioSamus]

Adam is all wrong, yeah. He’s the kind of guy who’d support Trump IRL.

[@WarmLusamine]

Dude. Why drag politics into this? What's the matter with you?

[@LinkMarioSamus]

@@WarmLusamine Sorry, that was inspired by a line from the Cinematic Excrement of the 2000s Fantastic Four movies where Smeghead makes the same quip at the head of the government for spurning the FF and deciding to work with Doctor Doom instead. Adam not respecting Samus for her past feats brought that to mind, although I don't think he necessarily looks down on her for her gender. This character is all wrong. He acts like a glorified hate sink but you're supposed to feel like he's some great father figure to Samus. Sure. His behavior can be justified to a degree but at best you're left with a horrifically under-baked relationship that makes both Adam and Samus look bad.

[@shis1988]

@@WarmLusamine how dare he bring up politics on a clear depiction of an abusive relationship, which is what the author wanted, and thus not political?!

[@AngelicusEXperiment]

I'd have put Rosemary beneath Chloe, honestly. You said yourself, Chloe embodies every bad-girlfriend stereotype. Rosemary only embodies one or two.

[@DoctorFail]

Wasnt rosemary actually GW throughout the entirety of mgs2 anyway?

[@Marcelelias11]

@@DoctorFail I think only in Arsenal, but nobody really knows I guess

[@Kpimpmaster]

She was forced to do most of what she did by the Patriots so that makes her more sympathetic to me

[@primetimemonkyhours743]

I think the reason I feel for Joel is, he has changed, I know he did a terrible, Moronic, and Selfish thing but you can tell he lives with that everyday, Tommy even says he might’ve done the same thing. Abby had every right to shoot him, but beat him to death with a golf club? Come on, that’s overkill. Abby was a psycho masking her bloodlust for revenge.

[@TheEggPaladin]

Wow, out of all the videos I've seen of Josh, I have NEVER see him outrage this hard ESPECIALLY in the Adam section since you know...he used to serve 4 years in the military and they are going to be clashing odds when joining. But yeah this list made Josh very passionate and Truthful in the countdown. Forgot Top 10 hated Characters, THIS is enough for me to accept it!

[@zerotwo6814]

That's part of what I love about Josh's videos. The emotion he puts into them is palpable, especially these days.

[@TheEggPaladin]

@@zerotwo6814 agreed. Dude's got so much much passionate

[@mistermaxie6487]

Josh was in the military?

[@fodv93]

@Michael Prymula Why'd he only serve 4?

[@fodv93]

@Michael Prymula ok

[@Lh0000]

How to fix rosemary: have rose talk WITH raiden and both agree to the “hide to save our son” plan in fact have raidan be the one to suggest it and have rose disagree with it, not wanting to leave the person she loves. There, done, I mean it’s not a perfect fix but still better then nothing!

[@skezeksskybreaker5425]

Some travesties require just a simple fix it still boggles my mind why the writers choose certain things. In my opinion besides it needing to be erased from Star Wars history it would have been simple in the Last Jedi to have Snoke make an illusion or force project in front of sleeping Ben Solo. Luke powers his saber on and Snoke disappears right when Ben wakes up. It would have saved Luke's character somewhat in the film and produced the same results. Ben would have been tricked into thinking Luke wanted to kill him and turned into Kylo Ren already being manipulated by Snoke as his final push onto his new path.

[@Gakusangi]

Great call on the issues with why Abby's story really doesn't work, especially when it had a chance to be successful and was just handled so amateurishly that it failed to hit the mark in any regard. Also, I love your take on Chloe, and I would never have even remembered that Rosemary existed in Metal Gear until you mentioned her here!

[@bowenorcutt78]

The RWBY Chibi clip is pretty appropriate, considering what the actual picture is depicting.

[@ultimatebishoujo29]

Ikr

[@Rocleod211]

Here's a funny thing about Anders's story: It's better if you Rival him If you go max Friendship, you're essentially enabling him to become an Abomination/Megalomaniac. Whereas if you go Rivalry, he actually tries to hang on to his humanity and he actually feels GUILT for what he's done. (as opposed to...you know...thinking himself a martyr for condemning his own people to death) I only bring this up because I literally JUST finished my replay of DA2(talk about timing), and everything you suggested that would improve his story can actually happen in-game if you take that route, verbatim. Here are some clips I found that showcase it best: Anders almost changes his mind, only for Vengence to take over and undo it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hHLRqHeLeK5pd5o Anders admits Vengence has taken over as opposed to them becoming one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/raTdfqKMd9BsbLc (and yes, you heard that right: in this route, Anders can agree to aid the Templars, but only with max Rivalry*not that I condone that choice*Pro Mage)

[@NekoSoren]

I think the same goes for a couple of the other characters, I think Isabella and Merrill, and I think one more too...

[@Samm815]

@@NekoSoren Seeing Merril destroy the Eluvium is one of the most satisfying things I've ever seen.

[@Foxxie0kun]

So what you're saying is that Hawke can be either an Enabler for the characters' greatest failings, or a counterbalance to draw them back from their worst possible self. Honestly, I never saw much point to intentionally causing friction between Hawke and the cast, but there's potential in challenging their views and ideals with opposing ones (To a degree). Also I never liked how Anders took in Justice. Doesn't seem like a thing he'd do, especially since Fade spirits are so flighty and enigmatic. I'd figure Anders would have froze a motherfucker solid to keep Ser Pounce-A-Lot though, but that didn't happen either.

[@ouchiegiverjr]

Death to mages

[@chongwillson972]

@@ouchiegiverjr death to templars

[@t.j.aarons889]

Ik you didn’t go with Joel for TLOU however he wouldn’t make sense on this list away. He is a character you are suppose to hate yet also sympathize with. Not a good dude but I really don’t understand how people consider him a shitty character with all the context and the writing from TLOU

[@theshipper5797]

Yeah, I mean realistically speaking, the ending shows that he's come to see Ellie as a daughter. And when the idea of letting her die even for a possible vaccine is brought up, he chose what he thought was best. Heck, matpat did a theory explaining why Joel's choice was the right one, and I recommend giving it a look see.

[@t.j.aarons889]

@@theshipper5797 I personally doubt the Fireflies could make a cure anyway. There is hints throughout the story it wouldn't have worked which of course added to Joel's doubt.

[@PSNragglefraggle1]

@@t.j.aarons889 Not to mention they were practically terrorists who attacked peaceful settlements in the first game. What would the influence of having a cure do to them.

[@sabbathb6548]

@@PSNragglefraggle1 Possibly has a bargaining chip for new members and grow more powerful than the government. That's my guess.

[@MxMoondoggie]

Chloe is one of the most unlikable characters I've ever seen in a video game. They even made a prequel with Chloe as the star and made Rachel the emotionally abusive bitch to somehow justify Chloe being a horrible person in the main game. I think Life is Strange in general isn't a particularly well written and put together game, bit overrated because of the lead roles being female. I honestly thought that the graphics looked like a game released 10 years earlier and most voice actors beyond the main characters sound like they dragged people off the street to read the script. Enjoyable soundtrack and not much else.

[@yoji-_]

Chloe and Rachel are both characters written with personality disorders. They're well written. Do some research. There are lots of real people that act just like they do. People that call them "emotionally abusive" and the like truly have no idea how to get outside of their own heads and look at someone else's perspective and are just as self-centered as the characters they think they hate.

[@Alex_Barbosa]

@@yoji-_ you can have personality disorders and still be abusive and manipulative. Chloe is both.

[@yoji-_]

@@Alex_Barbosa Those things are symptoms, not side-effects separate from the disorder. A person with BPD can seem manipulative but their baseline is confusion with their identity, which means their superficial motivations are liquid because they change based on the people they interact with. It's not "manipulation", there is no conscious act of malice. Chloe expressed empathy, regret, and confusion as much as she did any other emotion, it's clear that she wasn't intentionally being malicious or selfish. People are blind to look beyond characteristics of people that they don't like, though.

[@MxMoondoggie]

@@yoji-_ You're inserting your own ideas to defend them based on your own feelings about the character though lol. Show me the part of the game where Chloe and/or Rachel are diagnosed by a medical professional as having BPD or any other mental illness. Your own ideas and feelings about something are not a diagnosis or evidence or somebody having a mental illness. This is why there are so many people online with BPD, they self-diagnose based on their own feelings and some flimsy evidence from a website. I can't recall a single moment in the story that Chloe expressed empathy or regret. The only time she shows any sort of emotion is anger when it comes to her missing/dead ex girlfriend being bought up. Otherwise she shows fake emotions to manipulate Max into paying attention only to her. Rachel does the same to Chloe several times in the prequel, neither of them have any regrets or feelings about putting others in danger or getting them in trouble. Just very badly written characters that have no likeable traits other than looking and acting like a cool rebel and being a lesbian...Which I guess is enough for some people to like a character even if they don't have any good traits or likeable ones.

[@isaiahrichmon527]

@@yoji-_ SHUT UP!!!

[@mythologymaniac500]

I felt the same way about Anders when I played Dragon Age 2. The only reason I didn't kill him was because he was the team healer. Honestly, Sebastian infuriates me just as much in the end. He tells you that Anders needs to be punished and die for killing innocent people, and if you don't, he will leave and come back with an army to attack Kirkwall in revenge. ...so, your argument is that the guy who killed innocent people should be punished, or YOU'LL come back and kill more innocent people? What sense does that make?

[@b3rz3rk3r9]

I felt the same way fir Anders, but it hurt more because I loved the guy in Awakening. He was snarky, cynical and funny. And he grew to be a more open person by the end. I was legit happy to see that he and Justice were still with us in DA2. Though I never romanced him, (in Al Pacino voice) You broke my heart, Anders.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@b3rz3rk3r9 DA 2 in general was rushed. Blame EA.

[@darklord884]

At first, Dante's voice was pretty okay if a bit generic and action-hero-y. But everything changed once Reuben Langdon was cast. I mean seriously, guy doesn't get enough credit. He knocked Date Masamune out the f@cking park in Sengoku Basara 3, played Ken in Street Fighter really well and has been THE Dante since DMC 3 and has been amazing every single time his voice came out of old whitey-locks' mouth.

[@renansantos6533]

Reuben is awesome 😁😁

[@infinitedreamer9359]

You know,it's really annoying how Josh constantly makes out the Fireflies to be the good guys while he makes out Joel to be a total bad guy. Even taking into account just the first game,the Fireflies to me come off as incompetent idiots. While their end goal has good intentions,everything the game reveals to us about them shows that they don't seem to have any plan to effectively carry it out. And that always made it more difficult to sympathize with them killing an innocent teenage girl and made me sympathize with Joel way more,ruthless bastard or not.(Marlene seems to be the ONLY one who gives a damn and TLOU2 asshole doctor certainly doesn't help with my view of the Fireflies.) Why do I think that? Well,there's a lot of reasons I could list but I'll list 2 important ones: 1. If they manage to make a workable cure despite all the odds how are they going to mass produce this thing? Cures are great,but they aren't worth much unless you can reliably mass produce it in quantities that cover the whole U.S. In the 20+ years after the fall of society how likely is that there's going to enough salvageable equipment to do the stuff they need to do? I would bet all of my savings that there wouldn't be much left of anything that would still work. 2. How exactly are the Firefies going to transport this cure quickly to where it needs to go in the 20+ years since the infrastructure collapsed. Cars are out because most of them likely don't work anymore and it'd probably be hard to find gas. They could do horseback,but going on horseback would take a lot time and in that time even more pockets of communities would've fallen. And that's not even taking into account that making a vaccine based on a fungi to begin with is a feat that scientists IRL haven't even come close to yet. And that's with all the resources they could ever want available. So I think it pretty reasonable to say that the Fireflies with not even half that amount aren't likely to make an effective cure. And before you say that TLOU verse is a fictional world,yes it is,BUT given all that we see before the world goes to shit,I have no reason to doubt that TLOU verse was very similar to IRL except that the Cordeceps nation suddenly attacked.

[@leaderstragg]

Good point, I'm not sure why Josh didn't notice just how flawed The Fireflies "logic" really was... Maybe he was just caught up in the moment? ANOTHER good point. The Fireflies never bothered to explain their plan to Joel or ANYBODY else for that matter. Frankly, I'm surprised there was NEVER a scene in "The Last Of Us Part 2" where Joel tried to tell Ellie that. It might actually have helped him convince Ellie that he was in the right all along... Or at least made her think twice before assuming he was the "bad guy" and The Fireflies were the "good guys"!

[@infinitedreamer9359]

@@leaderstragg No not really. When Joel was on an earlier list of his,he still did everything in his power to make out Joel as 'evil' with no room for gray. Josh is stubborn as fuck about believing what he wants to believe about characters. Right? I wish that there there was an actual scene in the game about that. You'd think one of the first things Joel would bring up in his fight with Ellie about his choice in the first game is how if the Fireflies had a viable plan they didn't seem to want to explain it anyone or they seem to not have the resources to do it. Joel's no scientist,but I think even he would understand in order for a cure to be effective there has to be a way to mass produce and transport that stuff,which doesn't seem workable in a post apocalyptic setting.

[@iisanulquiorrahara8]

I think the problem with Joel in that scenario isn't that the Fireflies were idiots who were willing to sacrifice an immune girl on a gamble that meant the entire world and that Joel was willing to save her, despite what it meant for the group. The problem is that she lied to Ellie about it. If he had said something along the lines of "They didn't know what they were doing, your life would have meant nothing because they were straight up killing you for nothing." then it wouldn't have come across as selfishly. But instead, here we are.

[@sarafontanini7051]

still Joel comes across as kind of a violent, murderous psychopath in quite a few scenes, and he really didn't need to actually murder all those people

[@patrickflying17]

@@sarafontanini7051 player choice in that matter. But since I don't even like the games in question not much of a horse in the race for me. But Josh equates selfish actions as evil. Even in a scenario where the world is too far gone for a hail Mary measure. Even if it was doomed to fail as the only people that'd benitfit would be the fireflies who'd then have clout to for e people to see things there way

[@hazukichanx408]

"Anders and Shulk share the same voice actor" Japanese audio Xenoblade players: "I have no such weaknesses."

[@greedkingcobalt200]

Joel's actions in the ending are at least understandable. His replacement goldfish for his daughter was gonna get euthanized and he didn't want to go through that again.

[@keybladeduelist]

@joshscorcher Josh, I hate to call you out on a mistake but this was so big I need to. Iris doesn’t molest Iffy at all! She brutally attacks the villainous arfoire who kidnapped Iffy in front of the child. Still traumatized her, but through her actions to save the child. The scene afterwards (while a sexual used scene in the way that iris’s rear is in the cameras face) she is leaning over iffy to check if she’s ok. She wants praise from her, yes, but because iris saw everyone else getting praise and not her. I am fine if the character still isn’t you cup of tea, but it isn’t nearly as bad as this list portrayed her

[@JacktheLightningRipper]

Exactly. That's honestly why that segment as a whole was rather unpleasant to watch.

[@BurningAzure]

@@JacktheLightningRipper Which one the Number 2 segment of this video, or the actual scene in HDN Victory/Rebirth 3?

[@jackmack4181]

My most hated character that I am supposed to like. Ava from borderlands 3 Ava is a character that has a tragic past with her being an orphan living on her own for I think 300 days. She is soon adopted and taken in by Maya, a siren from borderlands 2. I have 2 things I dislike about Ava. Number 2: she has no other personality other than brash tomboy or spoiled brat, there is barely anything to like about her. She insults gates of graveyard like they are a big deal and every line she says is Annoying. If they attempted to make her like Tom Sawyer, then I might like her. Number 1: she disobeyed a direct order from her caretaker, threatened the villains when they had a perfect time to escape and caused the death of maya. And she didn’t get reprimanded or punished afterwards. I just really dislike Ava, she is a pointless character and is useless in the story, yes she does get mayas powers but that was because she indirectly killed her. How I would change her is to have her be...for a lack of a better description, Tom Sawyer like. She would be lazy, set up traps and generally let others do her work, throughout the borderlands questline Ava would learn that sometimes you need to act and not let others do her work. And when maya gets hurt not killed she feels responsible for not doing anything. I’m rambling now, just to put it straight Ava could’ve been better. Edit: I have a hard time putting my thoughts out in words Edit number 2: I was waaaaay off on how long she survive by herself, 3 years not 300 days

[@firefly56embers33]

I agree with Ava so much especially as a day 1 player of borderlands 3 and you stated why I hate this piece of shit.

[@FeatherSnake007]

Let's not forget two other awful things about her: 1) Not only she's responsible for Maya's death, but she even blames and screams at Lilith for that. 2) After being totally pointless throughout the campaign, SHE GETS SANCTUARY III? GIME ME A F*****G BREAK, GEARBOX! I prefer the Pre-Sequel to 3 because of her. As much as 3 has amazing and innovative gameplay for the series, its story blows to the point that it ruins my whole experience of the game. Thank you, Ava....

[@jackmack4181]

@@FeatherSnake007 Kid character nutshell First kid character was Tina, demolitionist extraordinare. An orphan because her parents were used as science experiments. Became crazy and energetic to combat her depression. Devs had a bug where her eye twitches but they kept it in since it fits. We love her because she shows EMPATHY to others. Second kid character: pickle from The pre sequel, also an orphan but is a thief by trade, loves to steal random things. Parents died on a Dahl ship, risked his life just to get their ashes, gave us loot when he found out his sister was alive and showed EMPATHY and HUMILITY because he had to survive on his own was humble.

[@runt_0774]

THANK YOU

[@Pyroniusburn]

The worst part is you know the next game she's highly likely to be involved again. More than likely in a romance with Tiny Tina or something, gearbox would just be that predictable.

[@Xanegoh]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates characters like irisheart. They're incredibly annoying and wear out their welcome insanely fast. If a male character accidentally ends up in a pervy situation with a female character and even apologizes for it, 99% of the time he's violently castrated. However, if a female character purposefully starts groping another female character, the most that happens to her is an annoyed groan and a shrug. I'm sorry, what? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?!?!?!

[@dyingstar24]

From what I heard, she's much more well behaved towards her friends outside of the main game

[@mrtyrant1680]

Now do a: Top 10 loved characters we're supposed to hate.

[@yeahwellthatsjustlikeyouro7466]

Fat Geralt Andrew Ryan

[@turbobist2889]

Glados should be on this list.

[@No_Sleepee]

Miu Iruma from Danganronpa V3

[@ultimatebishoujo29]

Yes!!

[@Underworlder5]

your wish has been granted

[@SonicSceptile]

I just want to point out that the whole "Anders gets cold feet but Vengeance takes over and forces him to go through with it" idea you raised is already in the game, but only if you Rival him. Makes for a much better progression seeing him start worrying about losing time and Vengeance showing up more frequently and even to threaten Hawke.

[@PhillipOnTakos]

I'm surprised by no mention of Ava in Borderlands 3. She gets an important character killed, yells at insults others for failing (when it was her fault), can never see the bigger picture, never has anyone call her out for her bullshit, among other things. Then is given super powers she doesn't deserve and leadership she doesn't deserve. I know it's possible you never played the game but with the shitstrom around Borderlands 3 I found it hard to avoid despite not really caring for the game.

[@Randerson2409]

Mustn't forget her giving a character crap at the funeral for her friend while being a dumbass

[@madcyanide]

Josh: Zarya is my crush!!! Zarya: I'm going to crush you like big fluffy teddy bear

[@redhood7650]

Josh: yes please mommy.

[@moffey9889]

Honestly takumai is the only one of that family that i liked. Everytime he was a dick to my character i was like "fair enough lol"

[@violetraven8323]

YES. I AM GLAD CHLOE IS GETTING HEAT. Like shes such a well written character, she’s so well acted and her story is enthralling and relatable. I myself struggled with depression and climbed myself out of it just recently. But I cannot STAND CHLOE. I painfully relate to her but personal trauma doesn’t excuse a callously self righteous disregard for everyone around you. Then, more infuriatingly from my end, playing victim whenever consequences show or people are sick of your shit. Chloe, Awesome character one of the best heroines in gaming. But I despise her as a person.

[@BigHailFan]

"one of the best heroines in gaming" no. just.....just no. i can think up 10 female heroes off the bat better than her.

[@dustincompton992]

Man, Censor-Fluttershy was getting such a workout from the Dante section I'm surprised you didn't have her take a deep breath for the last "yay".

[@keeganlafferty1395]

I knew that Reboot Dante would be on here somewhere, wasn't expecting him so low though to quote Vito Corleone: "Look at how they massacred my boy"

[@silverflight01]

Other M Adam has so many flaws and contradictions to his Fusion self that I even wonder how it's even canon.

[@MentalLiberation]

I love how Josh ended number four with kojima saying you don't understand my vision and then following it up with The last of us 2. Talk about bookends.

[@Xehanort10]

21:19 Ah the old " person was just pretending to love another character while actually just using them but falls in love with them for real" cliche.

[@eamonndeane587]

So like Flay Alster in Mobile Suit Gundam Seed?

[@Xehanort10]

@@eamonndeane587 I've heard of Gundam but I've never seen any of the series so I wouldn't know.

[@eamonndeane587]

@@Xehanort10 Let's just say that Flay fits that trope to a tee and manipulates Kira in an attempt to get him killed. Gundam Seed is one of the more Accessible Gundam animes since it's set in an Alternate Universe from the main titles in the Franchise .

[@jerekheadrick3379]

It's so sad because Anders was so fun in the Dragon age origins DLC.

[@Kay2kGer]

his first entrance, corpses all around him: wasn´t me

[@AxOfTheHorde]

Yeah, he was my favourite companion in Awakening, I had him in the group the whole game

[@johnpoole3871]

I really hated him in that DLC but I thought he kind of redeemed himself at the end...only to see that all retconned in DA2.

[@Akusteisha]

"Takumi supposed to be your birth brother" Yeah.. about that..

[@jaredparks4713]

TFW Takumi is on the list when the same game gave us Peri, a literal psychopath who thinks killing people is fun and has no redeeming qualities about her.

[@samvanderstaak7296]

...she's a really great cook? For real, she's like Tharja or Henry without the memes, puns and nosferatu-tanking, and twice as annoying...were we even supposed to like Peri? I mean in Birthright it makes sense since she is the murderous enemy cavalier and viscious bodyguard of the enemy Crown Prince...but yeah Peri is one of those times I wonded wtf they were thinking...

[@SilverNightbane]

@@samvanderstaak7296 I think it's real weird that Xander of all people made Peri one of his retainers. I mean... Laslow I can totally understand. But Peri?

[@samvanderstaak7296]

@@SilverNightbane Yeah, I never completely got that either...although I think he said something along the line of falling in love with her at first sight in their S-support so yeah he thought she was hot. Talk about bad taste, amrite? Edit: also I'm pretty sure she was recruited right after Xander watched her win a fighting tournament so he might have thought she was a capable fighter. (I mean no S-supports in Fates are canon, so this seems a much more reasonable reason...still tho, employing her as a fighter sure, but a royal retainer?)

[@thegreenitalianmachine5411]

@@samvanderstaak7296 I agree with what you say, Peri kinda killed Xander's writing in their supports, and it's stupid. She WAS recruited because of her skills as a fighter in a retainer tourney, same as Laslow, (Who somehow got recruited with no background,, not complaining, I love Laslow.) She is just all over the place as a character.

[@kirby1781]

Well tbf Peri is nowhere near as important in the story as Takumi and even other characters are disturbed by her. Meanwhile Takumi is important and he isn't the best written. I do think he is fine for the most part, but especially in the story he has instances of bad writing. I mean, fairly sure it is meant to be 8-10 years between Azura's kidnapping and he is STILL suspicious of her!

[@Darthwin1]

Pretty sure Iris heart didn't do anything to IF. The dialogue definitely makes it sound that way and what she actually did would still land her on the list considering IF has a literal front row seat to what Iris proceeds to do to the child kidnapper.

[@scottishboy112]

I would have to disagree with iris as, she isn’t a ‘Child Molester’. THAT would be CFW Trick in 2. Iris is a Sadist who takes pleasure in others pain so... Even just attacking enemies would get her going, it doesn’t immediately insinuate something sexual at all. That being said, she did probably scar IF from the display but it wasn’t sexual. However, I can suggest a replacement. Ava from Borderlands 3: To start, yes you are supposed to like this brat as was said by one of the writers on the little streams that Gearbox do. Ava basically has a backstory that sees her living on her own, trying to survive. Fair enough, could be sympathetic to that... However that’s in a sidequest AFTER you’ve already met her and the first meetings with her isn’t pretty. In the first mission with Ava in it, she comes off as an obnoxious brat who basically says they ‘Dont want something’ just to rebel against someone for... seemingly no reason trying to imitate teenagers today. Even when Ava is being told she’ll be doing something she wanted, she says something sounding like a ‘Rebel’ when a normal person, even a teenager these days would accept it. The sidequest also reveals Ava’s bad side. In past events, a captain that helped her out has some of his belongings stolen by Ava to sell later and plotted to steal Maya’s weapon just to sell it for money. She even goes ahead and insults monks who were helping look after her in her diary behind their backs. Then we get to the most controversial part... Maya’s death and the argument that Ava was there just to have Maya die. Now, while Ava being there does feel quite contrived, it could have worked. However... Despite being told to stay back on the ship while Maya and the player head to the Vault, Ava sneaks off and follows. Once the player is ready to enter the vault, Ava says something akin to a brat like “You promised that I could become a Vault hunter, you promised!”. Now, if Maya had to die, it’s not going to sit well if people feel like her powers went to a much less likeable, brat of a character. And that’s exactly what happened. If Ava has been less abrasive and more toned down, people could’ve been fine with it. Ava being down there could’ve inadvertently caused Maya’s death. Now... Who does she blame for that happening? Lilith and everyone else, but not herself for disobeying orders and sneaking out into danger in the first place, causing Maya to lose focus and be jumped by the bad guys. Due to all of this and Ava’s inability to accept her actions causing harm and blaming others for everything... Not only do players not like it when she gains Maya’s powers and seemingly not grow at all, but even the whole of a spaceship and the crew when there were many many MANY more worthy candidates? Yea no, not buying it. At that point Ava also became the ‘Mary Sue’ character who gets everything for little to no effort. I’d say Ava was more worthwhile than Iris, especially as we were supposed to ‘Like’ an abrasive brat who doesn’t grow at all through the course of the story and gets other loved characters killed. She was ‘Supposed’ to make an appearance in DLCs but, nothing yet probably from the backlash against her character.

[@dyingstar24]

God this makes me wish we got the cutscene that was SUPPOSED to be Maya's funeral, instead of the circle of dumbasses they decided to do... It actually shows ava sitting there, talking to Lilith, and actually taking responsibility for her actions, as well as reflecting on how much of a brat she was to everyone. Thanks, Randy, you f*cking greaselord... (IDC if he wasn't responsible, I'm still blaming him cuz he is a greasy bastard)

[@metamaster5469]

Anyone else notice how eerily similar Abby is to Jasper Batt Jr.? They're both previously unseen characters that turned up randomly in the second game to kill someone the main character loved, they're both related to a character you probably forgot about due to how minor they were, and they both do a terrible job at pushing the 'revenge is bad' message by delivering very unsatisfying final bosses and endings.

[@shiffpup2529]

But Abby's dad saved a zebra... XD

[@WBX64]

I think the major difference is unlike Abby, You get to kill Jasper Batt Jr for the crap he pulled and the game ended on a happier note, unlike TLOU part 2.

[@thetalltitan2235]

I don't know why, but I really didn't mind Alphys as a character...

[@kiwikarp9509]

From how you described Vanille, I understand her actions. When you feel guilty about something, it's hard to say something about it. Some people have the strength to admit to their mistakes right away, but for others, the fear of the backlash is too much. They're too scared to confess to what they did, so they hide it. The guilt builds and builds, and as it does the consequences for hiding the action do as well, which makes it harder to tell someone. I've done this to avoid getting punished for stealing food or getting a bad grade, and that's nothing compared to what Vanille was trying to hide. With that in mind, she doesn't sound like a bad character. Not necessarily a likable one, but a character that makes sense, one that feels human. This could be nothing but a headcannon for all I know, but from what I heard in this video, she seems to be more motivated out of fear than stupidity or malice.

[@ramenbomberdeluxe4958]

Honestly, I know TONS of people who fight tooth and nail to avoid even a SMIDGE of responsibility for their actions. My own mother is among the most tragic examples because, while genuinely an awesome inspiring person, her stupid pride and leverage as leader and provider of the household (and admittance that she THINKS she can act however she wants) is ANNOYING TO THE BLOODY CORE!! She doesn't feel guilty for a single petty action she's transgressed against me, not one out-of-line snark or bitchy behavior, not one THING!! I am tired of people using me as their petty scapegoat, and seeing characters avoid responsibility for their actions, or innocent characters be blamed for something they didnt do, always spikes me harder as a result. I work hard to take ownership of every mistake I make. I may not always be perfect about it, sometimes I initially hesitate due to the lingering chaos of what just happened, and sometimes I need to clear my head and regain my sense of reason, but I damn near ALWAYS own up. Sorry to rant, but this IS at least tangentially related.

[@kiwikarp9509]

@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 I'm honestly sorry to hear that. It's horrible to have a toxic family in your life, so I hope you can either improve your relationship or cut ties with her.

[@ramenbomberdeluxe4958]

@@kiwikarp9509 Maybe you misunderstood, and I don't blame you. This isnt so much "my mom is toxic", as it is "her greatest flaw". She's not malicious, and this is by no means a common occurrence, but its still atrocious to deal with when it happens. I promise I'm fine, and I know not to make myself out to have it bad, especially when actual abusers are everywhere.

[@kiwikarp9509]

@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 Okay, in that case you should tell your mom about how it makes you feel, or at the very least another adult.

[@vanilleffxiii4550]

Vanille's story is more complicated than that. I feel people criticize her only through black and white morality but none of her actions are wrong. Remember that both Pulse and Cocoon hate other through propaganda and prejudice. Vanille’s story is kind of like FFX in the sense that Vanille is like Tidus when Tidus found out what the final summoning meant to Yuna (Yuna has to be sacrificed). In this case, Vanille couldn’t go through with Fang destroying Cocoon, and telling the truth to the group wouldn’t help either. Later, when “Cid” tell the group that the Sanctum wants them to turn into Ragnarok and destroy Cocoon, Vanille suggest that they do nothing. Cid says it’s an honorable decision but they’ll be forced to fight anyway. It’s just she is hard on herself but in reality if Vanille didn’t do what she did, then Fang would have tried to destroy Cocoon, so she had no choice. As for lying to the group, note that it wouldn’t have helped and Vanille as a Pulse native only knew the Cocoon inhabitants for only a bit. FFXIII did fine with Vanille. See this link but basically if you go through all of Vanille’s possible choices, the path she chose is correct. Basically, Vanille’s story is like Tidus in FFX in the sense both (after finding the truth) end up trying to avert things. Tidus’s story was more straightforward as they knew they needed to defeat Sin without using the Final Aeon. For Vanille, she didn’t know who the villain is (if any) and neither did the group until very late when Cid tells them. So, nothing Vanille did is actually wrong. finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/User:Petco/Why_Vanille_made_the_right_choices

[@thegameknight8916]

I'd actually like to talk about how these characters could be fixed.

[@Aurora-313]

For Metroid's Adam Malkovich - this is from a thoroughly uninformed perspective as I have no military experience, training, or XYZ. What I have done, is research. And without doubt, Adam is probably one of the worst military characters I've seen written in a story. What doesn't help is Other M basically shits all over the Prime trilogy's portrayal of Samus as a stoic, introspective silent badass who goes in, get the job done and leaves for the next gig. A consummate professional. Even if this were Adam and Samus' first reunion in literally years? And emotions were high, you would expect that the psuedo-father figure he was SUPPOSED to be, would quietly take her aside once assignments were dished out, thank her for being there, thank whatever fates ran the universe that she was there at the same time and wish her a fond good luck in their familial 'any questions, lady?' in-joke. Instead... he's a bastard. An absolute bastard. As for DMC: Devil May Cry Dante. I don't... want to say I hate him. I hate what was done with him, but I don't mind his concept as a character. Haunted by demons and no idea as to why? So he just decided to say 'fuck it, I'mma kill them' - and if he potentially stated a business out of it? Sure, it'd be a cool story progression. And maybe that can lead into how Vergil found him. Vergil was like 'huh, there's a demon hunter with a suspiciously -- ZOMG BABY BROTHER!!!'. Not this underdog 'fight the man' bullshit. Why does this anti-authoritarian bullshit _always_ have to make it into these games. Cause honestly, in the game - I was sympathising with Mundus more than Dante, Vergil and ... whatever the hell her name is. The rest I don't know or don't have enough knowledge to judge. Except Anders and Abby. Fuck those two.

[@discipleofdio1040]

Josh: *Obligatory disclaimer about different opinions and whatnot in the intro* Me: Ha, no worries man. I get it, we all have different views on characters. There's no need to make an argument, even jokingly, about- Josh: *Puts the best character in all of Fates in at number 8* Me: wELL THERES A REASON WHY THERE WAS A #PRAISETAKUMI HASHTAG TOO-

[@christophercase6042]

Similar view. Different character. Not gonna say "Unpopular Opinion" here as I feel a little out numbered.

[@SymphoniaFly]

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks Takumi is the best character in FE Fates. 😂

[@peterh2223]

I don't think Takumi was meant to ever be truly likeable, in the same (dragon) vein Corrin Is.

[@SymphoniaFly]

@@peterh2223 ...Corrin is meant to be likable?

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

@@SymphoniaFly Yes. The thing, tho, is Conquest makes them look moronic.

[@shelbybayer200]

Fun fact: In the Last of us It's possible that nothing would have changed much if Ellie was killed for the cure As the "Cure" wouldn't have worked anyway as the Zombies where created with Spores from Mushrooms you can't exactly cure Zombie-Shoorms ---------------- Also It's Pronunced "PLU~TIA" not "Plu~sha" like Celestia is pronounced "Celes~tia" And no Iris Heart was never intentionally being lewd with her allies the joke is that she has a overly dramatic personality and her beat down of the Villains is Taken out of context as Sexual for the sake of the joke And she wasn't "molesting" IF in that scene she was trying to get her to call her cool but was saddened when her beat down of Arfoire went to far.

[@loganredding1621]

Let’s also not forget the fact that most of the problems are coming from the humans, not the zombies.

[@brandonlyon730]

There was also the fact that the Doctors were basically killing her without Ellie’s consent or say on the matter. They were doing the operation while she was unconscious and unable to do anything.

[@emberfist8347]

@@brandonlyon730 Or my favorite bit. They know so little about the immunity. It reminds of a certain quote about insanity from Far Cry 3. That is the Fireflies. You would think they would study her alive first before the surgery check to see if the immunity is genetic or you could develop herd immunity.

[@guynamedrick4419]

@@emberfist8347 Aslo don't forget about the tapes that show that the Fire flies are actually fucking villains and were planing on killing Joel meaning that Joel murdering them all was the right thing to do.

[@bashamd96]

@@guynamedrick4419 Never forget also the Fireflies are terrorists also so not only is Joel already in the right just for what they did in that situation if the Fireflies somehow made a cure a morally bankrupt terrorist organization would basically have a auto win button for there terrorism and god knows what shit they'd enact if they got that kinda control

[@rageldith9600]

I'd also like to point out that the LiS fandom fawns over Chloe, like when someone said, with pretty good detail, that LiS is a cautionary tale about getting trapped in an abusive relationship, told from the point of view of the abused, the only reply was, and I quote, "lol, sounds like shit"

[@rickrock4557]

The fact that Joel wasn’t on the list and you replaced him with Abby blew my mind. Good job.

[@Ori_Kohav]

Reboot Dante on this list. And shown on each count step. Good. Fictional or real, people like him who try WAY too hard to look cool, are extremely uncool in the end.

[@harrisonmissell1716]

All you need to be truly cool in the end is to be a good person

[@EldritchTeacup]

I liked him aright. Am I an edgelord ?Dunno.

[@BabyKrogan]

Yeah I thing DA2 can be boiled down to "damnit Anders!" XD

[@tvftw1]

"All her deaths are HER fault" "She threatens a guy with a gun and gets shot for it" "Well, if they weren't resisting arrest..."

[@leaderstragg]

I'm not sure Abby from "The Last Of Us Part 2" really cared about her friends all that much, she seemed to only put up with them because they did what she wanted them to, AND had the same opinions that SHE did. If I were HER, I wouldn't really miss them that much AT ALL... Lev on the other hand, was actually MUCH more loyal to Abby DESPITE the fact that they had so little in common AND started out on opposite sides.

[@Ori_Kohav]

Honestly, the only friend of Abby who wasn't good with her was Mel, and her case was much more relatable. She was pregnant, she saw signs of Owen wanting to get back with Abby, and she was interrogated by Isaac over something that Abby did (even though it's clearly because this idiot doesn't do his f___ing research before making his decisions)

[@LightbladeRiulo]

Hell Lev In some cases was the voice of reason. Abby would have gone and killed a pregnant woman if Lev didn’t stop her.

[@Ori_Kohav]

@@LightbladeRiulo Even though her rage on that moment is understandable, it makes sense that Lev wouldn't want her to endure pain similar to what he endured. Quick reminder, earlier that day, he killed his mother in self defense.