Top Thrill 2 is Genius

Top thrill 2 is opening this year, this is why it is Genius! *All photos in this video were either "free for reuse (according to google), used with permission of the owner or from the direct party which they refer to. For example a picture of the S&S Axis coaster would either be "free for reuse" of from the S&S website itself.
If you are the owner of one of the photos in this video and you feel like your photos have been mislabeled as "free for reuse" and you rights have been violated please leave a comment below and I will fix the problem immediately.
In order to keep my channel family friendly, comments on this video should be kept clean. Comments that do not follow this rule will be removed.

[@johnv5637]

Going 100 mph backwards over a switch track is going to be more intense than people think

[@TheCoasterJosh]

It’s going to be epic!

[@user-wk2mo2wm6k]

Why is going backwards over the switch track going to be so intense? It's a straight shot so, where is the "more intensely" going to come from because it's a switch track?

[@dindog22]

I feel like there was a massive package deal involved in this project. We got Wild Mouse and a few new Zamperla flat rides down at Carowinds

[@TheCoasterJosh]

That’s a good point, very likely!

[@Asshat237]

Without question that is what happened.

[@michaelod8841]

I'd think to the GP that this will look more intense than original dragster

[@elderlybaby]

I will miss Dragster ( of course), but things happened, so now I m glad they didn't scrap it and reworked this coaster. It will have many great features. I only wish "top thrill ²" was just a placeholder name

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Me too! I’m glad they managed to save it!

[@shadowprince4482]

I think calling it a number 2 fits because it looks like crap. I'm sure it will be financially good for them but I'd almost rather them having just scrapped it and made something new instead of this nerfed version.

[@HugeRMCFanBoY-bx3od]

@shadowprince4482 im done being a thoosie

[@HugeRMCFanBoY-bx3od]

@shadowprince4482 I quit being a thoosie

[@kaleighbreedlove7159]

2:08 gets me every time, like I can imagine some general laborer's conversation with some higher ups like "CAN WE PLEASE PUT A CHRISTMAS TREE ON TOP?"

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Hahaha that’s amazing

[@rootsthebook]

Forr the general public, it's a great move. A "record breaker" that everyone can ride comfortably. I do think "rollback rides" are gonna be great! (Its gonna take 4 or 5 passes to gain enough speed)

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Thanks for the comment! Agreed the GP will love this thing! I'm very excited for this.

[@revimfadli4666]

Agreed, "tallest swing launch coaster in the world" with guaranteed "rollback" is somehow marketable to both thoosies and gp

[@rootsthebook]

@@revimfadli4666 I'm speaking of a real rollback. When it doesn't make it over the 420 top hat & has to restart the momentum

[@ImReverseGiraffe]

There won't be roll backs like they used to have. You'll only get the one.

[@rootsthebook]

Speaking of when the lsm malfunction and a total reset is needed.​@@ImReverseGiraffe

[@stellaVista]

If the "GP" wouldn´t like overly intense rides we wouldn´t have a million crappy SLCs and certainly no Top Thrill Dragster. I´m sure that TDD turned many people into enthusiasts in the first place. And many of those will most likely not be too thrilled in a less intense experience with multiple but weaker launches.

[@TheCoasterJosh]

SLC's are horrible I would be surprised if your average member of the general public loved them.

[@batgirl5518]

Cedar Point’s 2023 roller coaster Wildmouse broken every time I was at the park.

[@CheddarPoint]

The appeal to the general public actually contributes to the main problem with Top Thrill 2, the capacity. Dragster already has issues with long lines, and TT2 will cause the capacity to go from 1800 to 1000 people per hour, slightly more than half of the amount. The general public will see the new spike and want to ride it, like you've said. The line will immediately rise to high increments, making it not rare to have 60-120+ minute waits. The chances of people wanting to reride over and over won't be that much because of this. On a crowded Saturday, the line could definitely be from 150 minutes up to FOUR hours. (According to queue-times, Dragster hit 4 hours one day) Looking at a 150 minute wait will cause most people to go on other rides. (Steel Vengeance has this issue) If that extent of demand seems like a positive for Cedar Point, then TT2 seems like a good ride. In my opinion, hyperinflated waits like that worsen the experience of the park. Poor reliability could make the line feel even worse because during those long waits, there is a good chance of the ride closing, either for a short time or the rest of the day. If Cedar Point went with the cheap route, then there could very well be poor down time, which is why I don't think they went with the cost approach. I really hope that this works out for Cedar Point, I'm just not confident.

[@michaelbianco32]

TTD definitely never got anywhere close to 1800 pph. ElToroRyan's analysis video placed it around 1000pph as it was, and I think they can achieve or even beat that with the new train setup

[@CheddarPoint]

@@michaelbianco32 the maximum capacity was 1800 pph. Top Thrill 2 only runs 3 trains of (presumably) 20 people. Dragster had 6 trains of 20 people.

[@nathaniel_8829]

I think the wait time due to maintenance needs to be factored in as well. Half the time i was there TTD was down because of that hydraulic launch. If it runs better with the LSMs maybe TT2 can achieve higher pph overall. Nothing will beat that hydraulic launch tho. I was always so sad when I was just about to get on and the ride went down

[@jonathonfletcher2952]

Dragster’s capacity was 1080 not 1800

[@FP194]

You forgot about the amount of time TTD was closed because of problems

[@FP194]

Reading the comments I am glad I am not an “ Enthusiast “ that thinks they know everything about the design and building process of a coaster when they are just people with an opinion

[@drummerrocky5494]

Nice to meet you Josh. Very good explanation on why Cedar Point went with Zamperla. I hope the reliability issues are taken care of.

[@zeeferer3035]

I don’t think it’s fair to say this is CP trying to get Zamperla to impersonate Intamin. Really I think CP is just trying to get another major competitor in the game. I think this is more similar to what New Texas Giant did for RMC, or Lech for Vekoma, than it is one company trying to impersonate another. Either way… Going to be a killer ride!

[@josephpatton8869]

Sometimes, Cedar Fair markets to torture enthusiasts! For example: The Hurler at Carowinds 😫 or tall people who want to injure themselves trying to contort their legs to ride steel vengeance or that new zamperla wild mouse

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Yup! Sometimes they troll the enthusiasts.

[@strictlyaesthetic9202]

How would any individual not consider an over 400 ft. rollercoaster to NOT be intense.....?

[@TheCoasterJosh]

It’s based on if it feels comfortable from a G force perspective, I305 and Orion are relatively the same size but ride differently.

[@HugeRMCFanBoY-bx3od]

#stophatingonorion

[@MrHaaspaul]

I think the new name is good and it fits ! Because it still is the old Top Thrill…… just with a new powered LSM swing launch. CP wanted to keep the same ride just with a more reliable launch.

[@greg_216]

I feel like coaster fans can be described with a 3-circle venn diagram of speed, forces, and airtime. This will check the boxes for speed and floater airtime. Meanwhile, the forces freaks will be falling asleep halfway through the ride. You'll probably see a lot of the same people who were in line with you for Millennium Force in line for this ride.

[@drewhastings5197]

I know that I have in fact seen a kiddie coaster go down. It was at SeaWorld Orlando and I was going to ride super Grover for the credit. Between cycles, the ride op dropped the key into the ride perimeter. It was quite the ordeal to get it back. But I am excited to see this open and hope to get on it this year. I think it will be a smash hit with the gp. I do worry about potential downtime. I think the computer system could cause some bugs to start. That seems to be pretty normal with coasters. My bigger worry would be mechanical issues. Could there be some type of flaw in the prototype trains that causes extensive downtime? Hard to say. But I think it’s likely that all the kinks will be worked out relatively fast

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Did you end up getting the highly coveted super Grover Credit? That’s sounds hilarious. That’s a good point about the computer system. Those prototype trains are certainly interesting, fingers crossed for them.

[@christopherslocum9454]

I totally am onboard with your thoughts! Exactly what I had been thinking about their choice to move forward with Zamperla.

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Thanks for the comment!

[@Sawyersaviation]

Every manufacturer has to start somewhere.

[@CoastersThrillsAndAirtimeHills]

I’m really looking forward to it. Nobody really knows how it’s going to compare against TTD until they actually ride it.

[@charlesrogers6755]

I just hope it has seatbelts too like the other Rollercoaster at cp

[@CoasterStefan]

Why? Seatbelts are so unnecessary. Here in Europe they don't even exist on most roller coasters. They do not provide any extra and relevant security in the most cases and only slow down the dispatch times.

[@FP194]

It has no seatbelts

[@JJJJ-he8bz]

Coaster enthusiasts aren’t happy with anything. But my thing X2 is arguably more intense than Intimidator 305 is yet the general public love that ride.

[@TheCoasterJosh]

That’s a good point about X2, I’ve never ridden it. I don’t think people love the intensity of I305 tho. It rarely has a line and people don’t like the grey out sensation.

[@JJJJ-he8bz]

@@TheCoasterJosh You’ll have to ride it to really understand what I mean. It really feels like you are in a car crash especially in the back row. Plus it’s rough and jerky. Total shit show. But I love it. I305 is buttery smooth and has more comfortable soft restraints.

[@RaiJolt2]

Super cool vid with great analysis, subscribed!

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Thanks so much! I really appreciate it

[@user-oc3lr3hy3w]

I'm very excited top thrill dragster is always been my all time favorite ride so I can't wait to ride I live in sandusky I have been riding dragster since 2005 until Aug 14th

[@TheCoasterJosh]

It's going to be great to experience this coaster again!

[@Shore_Entertainment_2022]

Agrees

[@alexcutionman4569]

I have knowledge that it was around 16 million USD

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Ah I see, I was expecting somewhere around 12-15

[@jasonthomasthomas3056]

Ehh in the middle i used to operate ttd and im worried about how its going to cost c.p more money with breakdowns

[@mellowmaggot7046]

Maybe Zamperla are throwing in a free Volare

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Amazing

[@stevohavener3277]

Anybody worried about the wait in line part, well if you stood in line for the original and every 15 minutes it was down for who knows how long and you waited it out over and over again, then as long as this one functions properly, the wait wont be anywhere near as bad as before.

[@sachakatsikas5817]

Sopposedly intamin had some connections to the support structure for the top hat

[@JoshSmith-me7oe]

It’s an election year. Thank GOD.

[@CarlExplores]

I think regardless of the accident we would have seen this coming

[@Zinojn]

Hey homie! Love your content btw. You seem well informed with some interesting and realistic takes. ✨

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it!

[@ukiarcticfox]

its still strange to me that they're going with zamperla instead of s&s or vekoma (which their other parks are working with so they already have a good enoigh relationship with).. making your *prototype* this big can easily go wrong, even if the company is generally reliable, this is just so insanely massive that im genuinely not sure how much reliability with kids rides matters not to say it *wont* go well, it very well could, it just still feels like a massive gamble that i feel is too good to be true as an aside, has anyone pointed out this thing is basically just a larger non-inverted wicked twister now?

[@spentron1]

I find it doubtful Vekoma was particularly interested. Cost relates to enthusiasm to tackle the project. It seems unlikely that Intamin was knocking down CP's door either or we'd be looking at one, although there are more possible reasons for that.

[@bocahdongo7769]

Vekoma didn't dare to push beyond their capabilities cheaply. They absolutely could, but they will ask faaar more expensive price, that the only Disney could afford it (literally). S&S? Ryan The Ride Mechanic quotes that S&S were bit hard to deal with, at least from customer support. Not as "F you" as intamin that won't provide ANY sparepart on their inventory, but still explain a lot of thing regarding lack of S&S coaster.

[@zeeferer3035]

If successful, it’s a testament to how well CP and Zamperla managed the ride.

[@ukiarcticfox]

@@zeeferer3035 oh absolutely, definitely a big "if", though

[@ukiarcticfox]

@@bocahdongo7769 vekoma was definitely a bad one for me to bring up, s&s would've still been *reasonable* though.. potentially harder to work with, but they have had experience with much larger projects still, really depends more on who was even interested in the first place (assuming multiple manufacturers were even contacted)

[@garywillis7253]

Honestly I wish they would have went with B&Ms bid which was tearing it down and putting a giga in its place...Most don't know they also proposed putting a giga where mean streak was ..That's twice we know about that involves a 2nd giga built at the point,hopefully 1 day it will happen

[@gregrumbaugh4855]

Can't wait to get on top thrill 2

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Same here!!!!

[@nathanroberts23]

9:56 octonauts at alton towers was down for like a week

[@Airenmanlol]

imagine top thrill 2 with a chainlift

[@TheCoasterJosh]

That would be crazy!

[@FAFO4wisdom]

Let's not; but say we did...😂😂😂

[@shanecarravello2922]

I don't know, man. Intamin has come a long way since then. Their launch system and trains have evolved. I think it's a deeper issue between the two.

[@peterthestud1]

Call me a casual park goer, but why does Cedar Fair dislike Intamin?

[@TheCoasterJosh]

In the past some projects done by Intamin faced numerous mechanical problems and reliability issues. I believe shoot the rapids was the final nail in the coffin.

[@FP194]

Intamin sold Cedar Point on the elevator cable lift system for MF instead of the traditional chain and it had just as many problems as TTD

[@charli.ward.]

I’ve personally stayed pretty firm in my doubts, and still stand by most of the things I criticized about it. I think the project as a whole completely lacks inspiration and creativity, and the least they could have done is bothered to give it a new name and theme. Everything feels like it was just slapped on like a band aid. They slapped on the 2, and they slapped on a spike. That’s not re imagining, that’s not even imagining anything at all. And personally from just my purely aesthetic opinion, I find the spike to be a massive eyesore on the skyline. I am still skeptical that Zamperla will be able to execute this well, I just hope those couple of former Intamin employees can redeem them. Cedar fair said top thrill was their biggest mistake, and I fear that this big of a gamble could make the mistake even bigger, potentially enough to close it permanently. I think they made too many hasty decisions, and they dropped the ball on the opportunity to take it to the next level the way it deserved. They’ve taken the cheapest and easiest way out to get this done as quickly as possible, and I think they’re unfortunately going to learn that you get what you pay for. Top thrill was very popular with the GP at its original intensity, and I think the GP can handle more than what this spike provides, potentially leaving even the GP underwhelmed by the ride experience. I think this project was the largest testament to the quality of the cedar fair chain taking a nosedive while six flags has been on a roll. Had they waited a little longer to tackle this project, they could have been refurbishing it after merging with six flags. And I have a feeling merging is going to help them repair some of their manufacturer grudges, maybe even get them working with intamin again. This had so much more potential, and I simply don’t think it will ever live up to what it could and should have been.

[@bocahdongo7769]

Forget about Intamin. Intamin customer service is still pretty trash anyway, especially regarding legacy ride (They won't even budge to provide spare part at their disposal)

[@googlethecat4218]

This comment puts my thoughts into words better than I could.

[@charli.ward.]

@@bocahdongo7769 fair point, even if intamin is never in the picture again, I’d still take (for example) an S&S launch replacement with no addition to the layout over this swing launch spike nonsense any day.

[@charli.ward.]

@@googlethecat4218 I’m glad there’s still people on the same page. I feel like a lot of enthusiasts have begun quietly accepting it the closer we get to opening. A lot of big voices in the community are acting way more excited about this than I ever expected them to. I think if we took a time machine back a few years, maybe to around the time steel vengeance opened, there would be a much larger uproar about the future of the ride. This park took their shittiest coaster that wouldn’t have been missed at all if they just scrapped it and then redesigned it to make it the best coaster in the park, and now they’re taking one of the best coasters and giving it the absolute laziest downgrade imaginable. Top thrill 2 would not fly at all in a pre-covid environment.

[@FP194]

You know what they say about opinions

[@robw5741]

I305 is a bad example for giga..... you keep saying enthusiast amd general public.... enthusiasts are general public..... or are they celebrities or something? I305 is insanely intense , thats why it doesnt keep the queue filled.... meanwhile millenium force , the first giga keep a full line, orion the newest, keep a full line. Leviathan fury..... its on how I305 was designed..... they tried to make a giga maverick.......

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Enthusiasts and General public have different preferences, and parks cater to the general public more than enthusiasts because they spend more money at parks. Enthusiast's love I305 while it's too intense for most of the general public. We do make up a small portion of the general public, but within that category different groups have different preferences.

[@robw5741]

@@TheCoasterJosh that's like a white person saying they're not white because they like chitlins...... enthusiasts are gp... PERIOD People with youtube channels that consider themselves enthusiasts , with millions more views than yours say themselves that I305 is too intense for them... They don't get preferential treatment , unless they pay for it.... like "gp".... they wait in same lines like "gp" they get served same food as "gp" FOR F%$# SAKE ENTHUSIASTS ARE GP.

[@TheCoasterJosh]

@@robw5741 I’m a bit confused as to where you are coming from, as the whole argument of the video was basically saying parks don’t cater to every want and need of people who are obsessed with coasters. They make rides that will produce the biggest ROI rather than to please coaster junkies. I think you are assuming I think enthusiasts are somehow special in the parks eyes, (this is opposite to the points made in the video) Also I don’t really care who says I305 is too intense for them. Everyone can have their own opinions. I’ve literally said in many videos that “parks don’t care about how knowledgeable you are about coasters”

[@dangrcat]

They 100% did RFP with many companies, its the law.

[@bocahdongo7769]

Welp, the only thing that make or break this is only reliability. GP would eat anything anyway, unlike coaster enthusiast that automatically chug the whole 500 ft RMC single rail and daydreaming like nothing tomorrow. Because even then, Intamin customer service is still pretty trash anyway, especially regarding legacy ride (They won't even budge to provide spare part at their disposal)

[@AE0320]

Only thing I dont like about Zyperla (so far). The trains have a crotch knob :(

[@garretthoward5088]

The problem with replacing the insane hydraulic launch with the mild LSM launches is that Cedar Point no longer has a "good" launched coaster. Maverick has a great launch, don't get me wrong, but they have no good standstill launch coaster. I know for a fact that this is an issue, as the park right now feels like it has a huge gap in the lineup, and this is coming from a person whose home park is Kings Island. Most big parks in the US have a decent launch ride, which CP no longer has. I think that this was a "cheap" and easy marketing scheme and that there were far better ways that TT2 could have been reimagined because this "solution" doesn't feel very imaginative. But alas, I will have to wait to ride this to make my final judgment.

[@shaneh3109]

Oh yeah. Kings island definitely has a gap for sure. Id love to see something like copperhead strike come to kings.

[@daisy-xv1vz]

Kingda Ka 2 anyone.

[@TheCoasterJosh]

HAHAH

[@askjeevescosby2928]

Cedar fair should have used intamin. This thing will be a mechanical nightmare just like the last one. King de ka will get the upgraded version with all the kinks worked out

[@crooked-halo]

I don't quite see genius in the simple addition of a spike, a rollback, and a few seconds of additional ride time. I think they should have done more, such as adding a few hills, turns and an inversion or two, making it more like a complete roller coaster. How about a huge, vertical loop between the station and new spike? You'd go through it backwards and forwards! "The World's Largest Loop" could've satisfied Cedar Point's hunger for breaking records. I also don't understand choosing Zamperla, who's never done this type of work, to be the solution to 20 years of major problems. I've heard they offered the lowest bid. "You get what you pay for" isn't always true, but picking Zamperla seems risky. I predict continued problems with this coaster, perhaps new and different problems. Would failure with this job be the downfall of Zamperla? Success may take them to the next level in the industry. They must be convinced they can do it, hopefully they will!

[@johnepants]

Honestly, there wasn’t much room for more to do. They can’t build off to either side of the ride without removing one or more coasters. While I think Corkscrews days are numbered, it’s going to be for a new coaster, not a reimagined one

[@EngineerCatPyro]

There's no hunger for breaking records at CP anymore. Hasn't been for 20 years.

[@FP194]

So you failed physics class

[@crazyco95]

Genius? It's the most obvious business move and it's gonna have even worse wait times. All for a ride that's still just a quick bout of adrenaline with no creativity. It's a way to save the ride from demolishment, but it's no genius.

[@TheCoasterJosh]

What’s genius is they are spending as little money as possible and it’s going to be super popular. As a business move doing the bare minimum like this is really smart.

[@crazyco95]

@@TheCoasterJosh That's still exactly what I said. Spending as little as possible to increase profit with no regard for how efficient the user experience is, is not genius...it's business 101

[@oblivieon1567]

The coaster industry isn't really that big. If you look at the Arrow tree: Arrow, Chance, Morgan, S&S, RMC, Vekoma, Ride Centerline, and probably countless others are either directly or indirectly related. I'm sure Top Thrill 2 will be fine. Hey maybe if all goes well Zamperla could fix I305, they really should just cut the drop by 50ft or so. Or make it a hybrid lift/launch type of ride. It's just too much for the GP.

[@joesmith6972]

This is such a letdown. A better re-imagining would have been a double spike where you launch backwards up a small spike and then forward up and over the top hat and then accelerate even faster into a record-breaking 500' spike. Sacrifice the single gut-punching hydraulic launch for an LSM launch but gain top speed and height. The stall and roll back from a 500' spike would have been epic. But instead, we get this. Two thumbs down.

[@TheCoasterJosh]

It could have been so much better, the genius part is that they can go as cheaply as possible and still get record crowds to come to the park.

[@gabrielthornmusic]

Rather awful.

[@user-wk2mo2wm6k]

I 305? Seriously? You can't pronounce Intimanator 305??? You said Dominator instead of just D! Maybe you should change your name from The Coaster Josh to T.C.J.? As far as T.T.T. @ C.P., I.D.K.? Oh Snap! You can call it T³!!!! L.M.F.A.O.!!!😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂

[@TheCoasterJosh]

Quite a strange comment... Have you actually never heard people call it that? I definitely did not make that up. Why do you have a hatred for abbreviations?

[@EngineerCatPyro]

It looks like the train doesn't even reach vertical before the so called "roll back". If it doesn't at least reach full vertical before rolling back that is completely different experience than an actual rollback. Pretty weak.