Total War Rome 2 Mechanics: Beating pikes from the front

[@dominikhameder629]

Noobs be like: "Oh, my Infantry can't defeat the pikemen. A cavalry push should penetrate the line."

[@Celetixx]

RedTheRed owo you are missing out man

[@alarethaudiovisuales8800]

@@redthered3242 not necesary play a game to know XD

[@robertharris6092]

Its funny to think how vastly different classical era combat is from all others.

[@janglenutter3820]

@@redthered3242 From the front yeah, slamming pikes from the rear with cavalry while you engage in the front and they're fucked.

[@boyoboy7062]

@Janglenutter to be honest if u hit any unit from the back with cavalry it will wreak havoc. XD. PS. I dont play this game but know a decent amount of classical/medieval combat.

[@IamTheMarsian]

full frontal cavalry charge...duh

[@fireguy6566]

@Darth Panda Except soviets used "metal" horses.

[@gs7828]

FireKill GuyBreak Human horses.

[@robertharris6092]

Winged hussar say challange accepted.

[@V.D.22]

@maciejl20 not true

[@franciscocarlosoliveiraram8038]

Infortunaly, in that game, the arms of soldiers and their weapon don't break during battle, so that strategy, will give you a lot of bresaola if you want... But not victory... Bresaola is horse meat

[@AlfARomeo-jx7pt]

This video should be called "how to lose half of your legionnaires doing something skirmishers could do with 0 casualties"

[@sternguard8283]

Lol yep

[@jenshep1720]

still useful for rome players, i seriously learned something here

[@snakeoo7ca]

When u have 3 velites youd be lucky to wipe a unit

[@deeznoots6241]

Tbf as Rome you will have to use melee infantry and cavalry to beat pikemen because your ranged infantry is dogshit

[@GuardDog42]

If you really want to beat pikemen double up infantry, loose one formation after first gets contact. Unzip the formation by forcing the loose guys through. You have to actively micro a push, expend some dudes but begin the actual attack. You can't bet on loose pike formations. Unzip them manually if necessary. But generally skirmish and rear cavalry attacks are best

[@kkp01140]

But... Legionary cohort is kinda end-game unit, while pikeman is tier 1 ~ 2 unit. They should be fighting against Foot Companion, not just common pikeman squad.

[@brysonmcguire7298]

+Il-Young Jung I think this is more intended for muliplayer/custom battle as it's a lot easier to outsmart AI Pikemen tactics and try and flank them

[@carlchristianlindalen9311]

+Il-Young Jung I just massacred a near full unit (100+ men) of egyptian thorax pikemen (tired, high morale, very heavy pike) with a half strength (exhausted, low morale, 68 men) town militia principes (very heavy sword). This tactic works! They came in 4 ranks deep. I spread out to two ranks deep, loose formation, with formation attack off. Then I prayed. :D

[@WTF2BlueTiger]

+Carl Christian Lindalen pikemen and "high morale" dont fit in a sentance

[@VRichardsn]

Hey, you were in luck. I just tried something similar in EB: Rorarii, Akontistai and Greek Levy Hoplites, supported by Equites Consulares, all half strength or lower, against a full unit of Syracusian Hoplites. I won by the narrowest of margins.

[@TomGAME4E]

hoplites are not pikeman

[@shaokhanwins1037]

What I learned: 1. No you cant.

[@wildchavy2614]

Thanks for saving me time.

[@arthas640]

well you can if your infantry are a little better, the pikes arent supported, if you use Rome (the most OP faction), you hit them with javelins first, and the pikes break up so you can flank them. If you do all of that then you can sort of beat them from the front. It also helps if the pikes just sit there while you pelt them with pilum and position yourself.

[@TimDutch]

As it should be.

[@assumjongkey1383]

@@arthas640 it is not the most op

[@jenshep1720]

@@arthas640 ahem. kush.

[@SimonAshworthWood]

In ancient times, Pikes were often used without gaps between groups of pikemen. The flanks of the Pikes were protected by more flexible troop types, e.g. hoplites, hypaspists, thorax swordsmen, etc.. This is how I try to use them in Total War games.

[@denial54]

unfortunately ur opponent doesnt have to fight ur pike in game they cant just ignore them and charge ur flank xd

[@Anti_Septikum]

​@@denial54your pikes can turn

[@denial54]

@@Anti_Septikum pike turns slowly moves slowly so a turned pike is gotta arrive at the flank late and expose its back for easy missile target and die to charges easily. basically no pike is best not to turn.

[@denial54]

@@Anti_Septikum and even if you do turn pike moce so slowly it cant catch anything, you are never gotta catch a unit thats not already engaged. you sound like someone who doesnt play multiplayer land often bro.

[@Anti_Septikum]

@@denial54 harass the ranged units with cavalry and deselect the phalanx ability and select it again when they get close

[@TheRemoteDetonation]

I have never thought of these mechanics before! Excellent! Really excellent!

[@maximusnorvegicus]

Cool!

[@Klyen2000]

Remote Detonation It seems to be an really effective way of defeating spike units but one important point is missing. What do you wanna do if there is a close formation between spike units and you can not get them from the side? Specially in towns by small ways and streets. But the main idea is great, thanks for that =)

[@BoopSnoot]

It ignores the most important mechanic in real life though. Roman legionaries were actually almost immune from archery attack. They could advance with large rounded shields that the arrows would mostly bounce off of, and had in later years excellent body armor and helmets as well, that were for all intents and purposes arrow proof. Phalanx however were effective when densely packed and the long spears were two handed weapons meaning they did not carry shields. Yes, this left them vulnerable to flanking, especially from cavalry, but even more so to archery volleys. The Romans engaging the greeks would hit the phalanx with skirmishers, ballista, and archers that could hide behind the heavily armored and shielded legionaries. This forces the phalanx, which cannot move quickly with the large heavy spears and dense unit formations to try to engage as quickly as possible head on, otherwise the missile attacks, of which the legionaries themselves carried two pillum to launch attacks, opening themselves to flanking attacks and being greatly diminished by the time the legionaries have to engage in close quarters combat.

[@batu3689]

@@BoopSnoot dude. Here's a little info for you. Pikeman did have shields. Small round shields but shields at the and. Starpped from their shoulders. And another important thing is the ranks. In a real phalanx first 5-6 ranks would lower their sarissas while the other ranks behind would hold them in an angle to shelter enemy projectiles. Not full protection but protection at the and. I mean it was not as easy as you think to beat a pike phalanx. And it's flanks would be well protected with decent infantry. Especially with hypaspists in Alexander era. And with a decent cavalry support as well.

[@q0w1e2r3t4y5]

"...while the Legionary cohort has lost a lot of pikemen" :D

[@DanMcLeodNeptuneUK]

It's not going to work against a thick solid line, protected on the flanks. Missile units beat pikes that you can't flank.

[@DanMcLeodNeptuneUK]

(like you briefly mentioned)

[@RagingBlast2Fan]

That might be true of amateurs who don't know how to play the game, but with veteran players imitating the generals of antiquity it matters little whether their opponent has a solid line of pikes. Pikes are too hard to maneuver. You can just refuse an engagement and keep skirmishing, offering battle only when the pikemen are out of formation and vulnerable to being flanked. Battles are complicated and things would not happen in as simple a way as I go on to describe - there are way more ways in which pikemen could lose their battle order - but the following account serves to illustrate what usually happens: The skirmish could end up with a big cavalry engagement being fought, and if the state using pikemen loses then the battle is over. They harass the enemy skirmishes and use their own to decimate the enemy pikemen. What follows is a box on the enemy part which might make the battle a more bloody one, but it will result in a loss for the person using pikemen allthesame.

[@DanMcLeodNeptuneUK]

You're damn right. I've taken ridiculous casualties when I've somehow allowed my pike wall to lose cohesion, once the enemy break through the ranks, chaos ensues. Granted, I play with DeI which is awesome for a bit of added realism, but I wager the same still applies in vanilla.

[@brovahkiin4302]

RagingBlast2Fan unless your opponent knows your creating a pike wall, and as long as you pick some archers and slingers (or even artillery) the skirmish fight won't work so well, especially since the pikes aren't that vulnerable when you disable the phalanx (you obviously have to check if the enemy is far away. Rome 2 pikes, properly camped especially in the corner, just break the game.

[@koreancowboy42]

@@brovahkiin4302 slingers are better used against other missile troops/units, javelins have better chances probably at hurting heavy inf. As for archers is just for better range plus their heavy arrows. Played too much Medieval 2 nowadays, but trying to get back on Rome 2.

[@davidawesome4569]

This shows a 1v1 scenario, how well do they manage when fighting against a line of pikes where they can't flank?

[@jaynm26]

Didnt he just show that here?

[@VT-mw2zb]

That means you need to weaken them otherwise with missiles. Or since a deep legionaries formation will not do much against a line of pikes, you can use one two-ranks deep legionaries formation to hold up 2 pike formations so the rest can manoeuvre

[@AdolfHitlerMemeLord]

Basically unless you have some sort of missile engagement beforehand pikes always win. It is true though, phalanxes have always been incredible walls, their only drawbacks were movement and in real historical accounts due to their slow movement and maneuverability they would be decimated by archers and of course Javelins. I do remember a historical account by Alexander the Great where he said that due to the spears that were being held in the air the men in the back would not be hit by arrows due to them block the projectiles, not so pretty for the men in front though which were actually holding off the enemy, but hey he is the man that never lost a battle.

[@christopherg2347]

In a frontal battle you have to either missile them to death. Or you have to bind them with a frontal attack while the cavalry/quick units ge arond. In the binding case, loose formation will still reduce your casualties. Basically they will not "try too hard" to get into melee by charging into the frontal spears. Really the goal here is to disrupt their formation any way you can: Siege weaponry. Ranged Weapons. Loose Formation Flanking, Cavalry flanking. Once you manage to pull that off Pikemen are not good fighters. Too many resources are bound up in that frontal awesomeness. They are desperately trying to keep the enemy out of melee for just that reason.

[@xt3916]

David Awesome agree

[@omidtajik7858]

Drinking game: Drink everytime he says “ranks deep”

[@wulf7463]

you made a 10min long video just to say flank them?

[@cloneorder6641]

Brett Rose did you watch the video moron?

[@tagapagdisenyo4034]

lmaoooooooo im dying

[@monthasir_afnan6367]

What about horse archers? I am kind'a new to the game

[@steinmaniac7920]

@@monthasir_afnan6367 Against pikes? Regular archers do the trick just as well, since they're still faster than pikemen. Also they'd carry more ammo and a bigger punch on average. Javelin throwers would be the most devastating, as the pikes can't charge them without breaking their crucial formation.

[@Crusader5224]

It still doesn't address how to beat pikemen frontally. All this video showed was that you can 1) beat pikes spread 2 ranks deep effectively (no kidding), and 2) that flanking pikemen is effective (no kidding). A good general commanding pikemen will ensure that the flanks are secured with good bracing units (hoplites or spearmen in square formation) and a mobile set of cavalry to take advantage of when the enemy attempts to hit the flanks. The fact remains that quality pikemen spread 3+ ranks deep simply cannot be beaten by any unit in the game, regardless of formation, if the opposing unit cannot flank the pikes. I spread my pikes 4 ranks deep and cover their flanks, and I have never seen my pikes beaten frontally by anything. Also, if you can bottleneck enemy units into a small gap to come through, pikes simply will not lose. On several occasions, I have had single units of pikemen (120 man size) kill over 600 men by themselves without issue, which is roughly 3 times better than any Roman Praetorian unit was able to do.

[@alexjohansen1337]

Well thats kinda to be expected. You shpuldnt be able to beat a front line specialist from the front

[@koreancowboy42]

@maciejl20 agreed, especially if some ppl already have experiences they could've shared how to defeat pikes frontal or any other way then best way is javelins since it's the reason their on the front lines before the main force. I always had a couple javelins or archers to keep the enemy pikes to be pushed back since depending if the enemy has high quality pikes. He wouldn't wanna lose them so he'd had to switch the pikes position with his hoplites or swordsmen. I had enough experiences with the pikes in Rome 2.

[@Angelo-nd4lg]

I don't know about you guys but my pikes got rekt by redguard cataphracts

[@likeaboss1059]

Well actually he did. Missile units, or art first. Or to atleast bait ur opponent to slip up after you take out their missle units. In online half of my army is litterly half missle when going against factions that have pikes. So that is the only way to beat them head on lined next to each other.

[@maverick4900]

The thing is, it was quite informative as I am just starting my first total war game and I didn’t know that the loose formation can beat a pikemen unit 2 ranks deep. It may be basic knowledge for you but unfortunately not for me

[@Shadow-rl8cu]

Very old thread, but from my experience it is really really good to place three units that are 3ranks deep each in the same place with 1st rank overlapping second rank of the next unit, this means that if enemy unit would somehow break through the soldier from the unit that is behind "First pike unit" will take over killing those who managed to squezze through. Third unit of pikes (that will be the last) should be placed so their pike heads are just barely in front of the first line. The last pike unit will defend first one and second one from hand to hand combat. With only 6 units of 120units each I managed to get ~2340kills whike loosing only ~ 180 soldiers. Your line should look like this: ********************************* *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# *#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# +#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+#+# ++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++ * - Soldier of first unit # - Soldier of second unit + - Soldier of third unit

[@Apollon89]

I can't defeat phalanx in custom battle with Rome I mean I do what video says but with or without loose formation my Pretorian guards can't get Macedonian phalanx and also I shoot them with javelins nothing happens to phalanx(logically javelin throws has to destroy them ) but I think Rome 2 has problems with gameplay how to defeat phalanx

[@reinforcer9000]

nice experiment, although pikes aren't meant for single unit combat, and flanking them in any regard will almost surely decimate them. any commander that lets his pikes get flanked aren't using them properly.

[@georgewashington132]

"the legionary cohort has lost a lot of pikemen"(Meridius Dec. 22, 2014) 6:11

[@bugrilyus]

KZbin recommends me this every year

[@fidgetwidget9116]

Well since Greek hoplites and Pikemen Are carry a Little Round shield. I say Any trying any type of missile Slingers, Archers, Javelin men. Or Peltasts to weaken the Pikemen then flank’em with since the Pikemen have very limited speed and can be out maneuvered by any cavalry units

[@batu3689]

Yeah. So we assume that you play against an idiot. He brings only pikes. No hoplite or shield bearers to protect the flank and no cav no missile. Just pikeman. By the way, hoplites did not had small shields. They had huge shields called hoplon. Pikes carried small strapped shield called pelta because they had to hold the sarissa with two hands. I wonder it why persians were not as "clever" as you guys. How would those idiots lose against "pikes". All they had to do was fire some arrows and flank them. That easy right?

[@fidgetwidget9116]

Batu Woah there. I don’t know as much as you do. No need to be such a snowflake

[@sta697]

@@batu3689 the pikes were first used over a century after the persian wars

[@worldmusicaddyours]

This is for free any KZbinr who will make a video of this go ahead and confirm it. Experience it is what makes pike break of course the until would have to be a high tier perhaps like armored legions or thorax swordsmen can win a full frontal attack against a unit like Hellenic royal guard with no exp and no armor and weapons. If I’m wrong then I haven’t played long enough.

[@carbon1255]

What are flaming pigs and dogs for then?

[@karl_fookin_tanner9605]

what about turning off formation attack?

[@berkovic10]

xddd

[@OJRedd]

In chess the pawns kill when attacking at an angle. This video is cool and I loved seeing how different formations affect the battle... but never attack pikes head on. Space your cohorts apart, keep them dense, and charge the pike at an angle. Pikemen can't respond fast enough when you shift you line rapidly. P P P / / / L L L

[@oleksijm]

This is easy to say, but harder to implement, because the AI will realign their pikes to face the attacking unit.

[@richbattaglia5350]

Horses on the flanks. Archers behind to hit the loose units as they approach the pike wall. Add a few good melee units in reserve just in case one wall falters.

[@TESkyrimizer]

Miss ya big man. Strength and honor.

[@benrocks832000]

Personally I like four ranks deep so I can still have three pikes in front with my entire front line in close combat

[@IcoVir]

I can't believe I wasted 10 mins of my life thinking someone found a way to out flank pike men, after I've already spent hundreds of hours of playing Rome 2. Thanks...

[@mullenio4200]

I play a lot of pikes and my nemesis is the javelin. A lot of javelins can take out enough men to thin my formation enough for them to be overwhelmed.

[@beny874]

I've been playing this game for a week after 4 years and finally getting around to it. It was falling down a wiki rabbit hole on the history of Army formations and reading about the Roman staggered Maniples/Cohorts that finally got me into this. Historical tactics actually work in this game Haha. Loose formation though is definately something I want to try.

[@oleksijm]

They work for one or two unit types which are well historically attested.. and for nothing else. You can't win the battle of Cannae in R2TW using what we believe were its real tactics, for example.

[@Cyge240sx]

Very cool video. I play off and on and was always afraid to try loose formation. My thinking was “that’s meant for missile def. so I never bothered testing this thanks for the tip

[@psycicmindpowers]

1-2 unitsof pikeman with hoplites on the flanks. Open up the space between the pikeman and hoplites and tempt the enemy go to the sides of the pikeman and crush them with the hoplites as they circle closes.

[@AznSwat]

Thanks, but usually pikes are used in narrow valley or usually with other units to make it difficult to flank, U should make a video against pike with army.

[@Dylan-bh4mn]

The same tactics the Roman armies used to fight Macedonian, Greek, and Seleucid armies during the 200-100s BC. Great work! Good job at applying real tactics and overcoming and obstacles in the game.

[@SinerAthin]

What did they do exactly?

[@ikoikoni]

Flanking the Phalanx

[@SinerAthin]

That' seemed a little too obvious, why didn't they do it before? xD

[@ikoikoni]

SinerAthin because normally there would be cavalry guarding the flanks making them hard to go around

[@SinerAthin]

So essentially, the later romans found a way to deal with the the cavalry :P

[@nationwide1371]

for those saying you cant beat pikes head on, fight pikes with.... *PIKES*

[@iPizerr]

not all factions have pikes and not all players use pikes

[@russell6075]

The pike still wins

[@benton202]

so many good soldiers had to die for this presentation...

[@B1aDePP]

U wont outflank anything in a battle like that, because pikeman dont stand alone. There will be always a couple of foot companians standing next to each other with no space between them.

[@Zealot2024]

If you’re playing a pike based faction here’s a pro tip: keep at least a third of your pikemen in reserve to fill gaps in the line. This strategy allows you to quickly fill in areas with high attrition rates, and reaping to cavalry flanking maneuvers without changing your primary fighting line. Furthermore, if you do happen to lose all your cavalry or a significant portion of your opponents forces successfully surround you, having a third of you forces behind the main line allows you to form the “noob” pike box which will keep your first line alive until there is a break in the enemies lines and you can reallocate pikemen to reinforce others (this generally begins a chain reaction of breaking already engaged enemy units and freeing up more and more of your pikemen to attack elsewhere).

[@Zealot2024]

“Reacting”, not “reaping”.

[@americanpatriot3874]

Gay ass tactic

[@Ragazar]

I guess I play this game casually.. If I actually go to fight on the battlefield, I always for a circle with pikes/spears/ melee supporting eachothers flanks and with my general and ranged in the middle. usually the AI attacks the front and first few units on the side since it can sense that my back is closed up, then after about 30 sec when all units are engaged I take my lowe half of tte circle and split it up,usually giving me 4-6 units. I then move those units up behind the enemy half circle and attack the from the rear. It's casual play I assume but it wins me battles where the enemy has 4 times as many troops and I like it. Also since I hate AND suck at cav, I'm looking forward to Total War Warhammer where the dwarves have no cav and really heavy inf and range.

[@Greensiteofhell]

You are descriping the best tactic when using pikemen. Only once I had trouble using this tactic; In my comquest of Russia I was suddently facing wave after wave of ranged Mongols! I used arbalest ranged units, so I could keep firing for a very long time, but there is a limit of how many men that can hide behind those pikes ;)

[@Zamolxes77]

WRONG. A slinger throws rocks, specially shaped rocks, and at high speed an impact from such a rock on an armored foe, provokes concussion damage. Slingers butchering armored targets makes perfect sense, that how they were used historically. Bows were not as powerful in those days, Agincourt and english longbow are 1400 years away.

[@brianr.6376]

The new ai, atleast for warhammer, in highest difficulty always circle your army first then weaken them using range. Then they concentrate cheap units backed up by 1-2 stronger one in the center while the rest of the strongest unit wait for a weak point then attack your there. In a full army setup i still sometimes lose :/

[@he-shyanbalnave8053]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiltron

[@lkvideos7181]

40 v 40. A phalanx of 20-30 units with flank and rear sealed by pikemen while the rest is cavalry / missile troops. That's the hardest force to crack.

[@jenniferkeates]

+LKVideos so basically, a noob box?

[@lkvideos7181]

J Gates yes, the ultimate one. Better yet, place it at the edge of the map while still having the rear covered. Just to be save ^^

[@kronus4915]

Slingers and archer cav will wreck this noob box

[@DakkogiRauru23]

This is precisely why the phalanx is still an important part of any army with a lot of pikes.

[@rahulnarjiary4887]

Pikes at the centre, spears, swords and cavalry at the flanks and missile units at the rear.

[@trl86sirren51]

This video just shows Roman elite units against cheap pike units and 1v1 not a army vs army

[@GrasshopperKelly]

The best is 4 ranks deep. The entity mass helps to brase against charges. Also, the answer, is archers.... Or even slingers, because they're basically light infantry, a few are medium infantry depending on faction/unit.

[@oleksijm]

Balearic slingers are a weapon of mass destruction in R2TW and probably OP

[@AndromedaPrima]

German Berserkers are basically a group of Hercules, they can handle several group of pikes like nothing while people started flying away

[@Colonel_Spectre]

I love my pikeman, I frequently use them in a bow formation, with two light-medium infantry units on each side, then encircle the enemy with said infantry if they're not engaged

[@mattkellaway4530]

I love using pike men in assault of defences of smaller settlements. I love blocking of exits with pikes and keeping them in gaurd mode and just watching seas of enemies run at them. I keep middle units in the middle to hit their own middle units and a some fresh sword/spearman to back up or rotate once fatigue has set in. I also hide some cav to shock hit or mop up any anyone flanking units or missle units. Favourite thing is to watch pikes stay fresh in gaurd mode then slowly advance forward

[@siddislikesgoogle]

In line formation, holes begin to appear between phalanxes as casualties from missiles and fighting accumulate, allowing for this exploit in frontal assault. I once had an elite unit of Celtic cavalry smash into my pike line, at the fracture between two pike units, dividing them and followed up I to the breach with infantry, which widened the gap and threatened breakthrough. But since I screen my line with medium skirmishers, and they pull back during assault, I had reserves in the second line to plug the gaps. The AI was very creative in that battle and almost beat me.

[@dalakhsarothal9624]

I would have liked a test against an unbroken line of several pike units, I very much doubt spread formation is as effective in that case. Still very interesting, thank you for putting the time and effort into these tests :).

[@GuardDog42]

The only proper way to fight pikes is unzip one end with either contact or skirmish, and push units through to the other side. Now the problem with pikes is when engaged trying to reform the phalanx will kill a ton of your unit. So really getting past that initial push and forcing your guys farther into the formation is the best counter. You can win head on versus a pike wall just concentrate on that first unzip and then if they move to fill in they just make gaps to exploit. Notice how long it takes for either a phalanx to reform or them to move in that tight formation? Super slow. So Skirmish and follow up for the push or unzip and exploit. Flanking is the obvious choice but nobody just leaves the flank open from the start; unless you have an unholy amount of cavalry.

[@MaipuruSyrup]

Traditionally the Greek city armies would have their hoplites and other pike wielding men would hold their pikes raised in the air at an angle or vertical to block incoming arrows.

[@LeMightySabre]

I prefer my pikes 3 ranks deep but I make two-three battle lines covered in the center with the best archers I can afford. That way if one line gets "flanked" the one either in front or behind simply about faces or drives forward and engages. Flanking them simply puts the enemy in a double sided meat grinder. If the enemy prefers to sit, have the front line engage and wrap the second lines around with the third in close reserve for flanking attacks on your forces. Its simple and deadly, especially in MP where siegecraft is limited by most players.

[@LeMightySabre]

+Zachary Moye Also, while being a great informative video, I will point out that these units are not of the same tier. I have never had problems facing someone head on with pikes, even with pratoreans vs Thorax pikes.

[@Bokfanlettucelip]

I know this was a demonstration of 1 on 1 tactics but I would never let my pike units stand apart. Pack them tight in a large phalanx and overlap the ranks. Keep flank units facing out to prevent flanking or envelopment. Also depending on size of army/number of units, keep a reserve to reinforce the line if any unit wavers or is taking heavy losses. Ideally, some cavalry to break up opposing archers if possible. 1 on 1 a legionary unit can out manoeuvre a pike unit sure but it shouldn't play out like that. Now my tactic against pikes is to engage them from the front with low value infantry and flank wide with better infantry units or cavalry in an attempt to hit them from the side or from behind if possible. Pike units will break very easily if hit from a flank or behind. True for most units but especially pikemen. Once the phalanx is broken, then units can be isolated and dealt with as shown in this demonstration. Best advice is to have a balanced army. A balanced force with melee and ranged units, infantry and cavalry. Also, smaller force with higher quality units. Quality over quantity every time. In urban battles, never man the walls with pikemen as they just get chopped to bits. They are far better blocking streets. Again, packed tight they can make a real nuisance of themselves. Thank you for the demo by the way. I have always been a move loose attack tight player. I shall definitely look into loose formation attacks :)

[@ramazankafdal5822]

I agree with you

[@carlchristianlindalen9311]

This just won me an epic town defense! Thank you Max! :D

[@MizterMoonshine]

Actually a very good video at explaining why the Romans did not fight in the quincunx formation. Too easy to get surrounded.

[@aickavon]

ten minutes of 'a situation that will never exist'. Pikes are a frontline, center unit that has their flanks covered entirely for this specific reason. The best way to handle them is to not handle them directly in the front. Get Velites, archers, slingers, anything that can ping them from range. Break them that way. Pikemen are those units that are super easy to deal with in the start but if ignored become SUPER DANGEROUS in the end.

[@anomalyp8584]

Breath of fresh air! Very methodical! Ingenius tactic!

[@user-lk777]

Thanks for the advice. By the way, I also always place a phalanx of pikemen with gaps 2 squads wide. By the way, I don’t understand why you grabbed the lone phalanx units from the sides, if you could just attack in the back, and there would be even fewer losses. What a genius the author is, low bow. I will ask the enemy not to line up in a wall, but to line up in checkers.

[@Sandermatt87]

SO the best way to defeat pikes from the front is to wrap around the sides? I guess if the flanks are protected by other units most of this will not work out.

[@marcusgodioso277]

Sandermatt87 spread formation can kill a pikemen even if the flanks are protected(at least 2men deep formation!)

[@AlexanderTheTanker]

Marcus That is assuming the enemy has worse teir units than you do, best pikes vs best infantry, head on, pikes still wins. Also, this whole thing can be countered by "stacking" the pikes, having 2 units standing on top of each other, so you got double pikes facing forward. What beats pikes? More or better pikes, flanking, missiles or otherwise disrupting the formation.

[@koreancowboy42]

@maciejl20 you can best pikes with missile units, it's easier than to waste some units to flank especially if he is experienced at leaving his pikes to hold the line and care for mainly the flanks. If it's a pike on pike battle then it depends on how both player use cav and missile troops. Heavy inf. can't be used recklessly against pikes unless you've won the flanks then rushing over to surround the pikes. It all depends how much units are on the field, the more units can equal well defend flanks or reinforced center. I done a couple large battles in Rome 2 so yeah I have some knowledge.

[@koreancowboy42]

@maciejl20 Yes AI is stupid, also I didn't say anything about not using cav, the flanks yes could've been cav and extra inf. engagements while the pikes are being busy with missile troops.

[@koreancowboy42]

@maciejl20 if your playing Rome again any pike faction they have advantage of their pilum when they charge along with their skirmish troops that can lay a ton of harrassment.

[@TheManofthecross]

it also helps when you out vet the pikes and out equip them with attack and defencive bonouses cause that will tear them up faster regardless of what formation they use.

[@marcusgodioso277]

Vincent Celeste even with superior attack,how they will kill the pike unit if they can't reach them because of the pikes ? (Sarissas).can't beat them frontally

[@JonatasAdoM]

That's why you want to make a line with your pikemen army and protect the flanks

[@marcusgodioso277]

JonatasAdoM that way you will make the enemy ignore the pikes (center of your army ) and focus intarelly on flanks

[@miyaguin]

You forgot the "run through the front line" trick :P . Just when your unit engages and looks stuck fighting the pikes, you order them to run behind the pikemen. You will lose 20% of the unit with that move, but then massacre them from inside.

[@boostedremiska]

i remember in rome totoal war you could have had only few greek militia units and defend city against pretty much every army (with no range units) just put picks in the gap in the wall and literally no one could enter :P it was so broken

[@c.w.simpsonproductions1230]

Simple: Either outflank the pikes and attack from behind, or kill them with archers/skirmishers/artillery. Which is why it's important in battle to keep your archers safe and not waste their ammo. Archers can play a key role if used correctly.

[@Nubkickass]

Micro manage until the long pike line stags(they move like turtles) and stick into the gaps is the only frontal way. However, it is technically still flanking as you must attack the pikes from the sides.

[@DanielLee-qz1yd]

Forget pikes. Those damned Parthian horse archers are the bane of my existence

[@shouldireadthisbook2094]

I play Rome total war one on iOS, I usually use phalanx to engage them and have archers to weaken them, then send chariots to disrupt their formation from the flank, I just started playing three days ago so I’m still learning new strats

[@RobertWF42]

Would also be interesting to see pikes used offensively, like the Swiss pike formations, against Roman legions.

[@jaelee1996]

Rome 2 strategy: Take 4 to 5 solid infantry. 2 to 4 powerful cavalry. Fill the rest with cheap spearmen and skirmishers. Place your cheap spearmen around the flanks to prevent enemy from surrounding your infantry. Pelt a storm of javelins diagonally from the front of your enemies or flank them with skirmishers. Keep cavalry close to fend off cavalry. Dominate the world.

[@manschier0816]

I always use Missile Cavalry as Auxiliary Cavalry or Missile Units such as Roman Archers to deal with those Pikemen Formation , that will be better if I have Onagers or Heavy Onagers this siege weapon to deal with them .

[@oscarbarrientos1420]

I think that the pikes needs hoplites around, the pikes in meadle and hoplites at the left'n right

[@Sunlaitescu]

My personal tactic is trying to get my infantry behnid the pike unit or on their flanks, no matter how deep the lines are.

[@Angelo-nd4lg]

Thats a good tactic till you face northern pikes of the stark army 😢

[@bighit20100]

When I get attacked and I am the defender, i just create a square (or pentagon/hexagon, depending on troop availability) of pike phalanx and have inside that square another square of hoplite phalanx. I've had situations where i lost only 200 men vs killing 3000+ The most powerful combo of pikeman in RT2, is that you gotta combine them with (spartan) hoplites and soms cavalary. The cavs are really important for chasing away those pesky archers/slingers.

[@thetrustysidekick3013]

So basically a noob box.

[@BG_Low]

I love charging phalanx bottom side.. It sounds wrong but it feels right...

[@ΜιχΛαζ]

Φάλαγγα or phalanx means in Greek that you can only defeat with υπερφαλαγγηση which means not from the front or only from behind if I was him I would go 4 ranks 5 ranks deep so every time someone dies the one behind takes his place that was also the most common tactic.

[@callummiller6599]

So basically, you need to face a pike formation that won't act like a pike formation

[@Souleman561]

1. Pikes will never be spaced like that i.e. having exposed flanks 2. pikes will never be 2 rows deep 3.Pikes are not a offensive weapon unless Elite unit, they are meant to hold enemy in an engagement while another unit flanks to kill .... 4. A good player will never have single pike unit moving out , it will be supported due to the slow speed mentioned above... this fact alone kills any advice given in this video

[@Akillez7]

Good Macedon players would not have stationary pikes. A great tactic for Macedon is to advance towards the enemy in phalanx formation. Keep hoplites or shield bearers on the flanks and have a lot of cav wrecking havoc. The enemy must react to your advance making him react to your movements. Instead of sitting there with arty and pikes. When fighting the pikes, Having your men in loose formation makes them extremely vulnerable to cav attacks that will happen with the Hammer and Anvil tactics used with pikes. If you are Rome, your best tactic is to prolong the skirmish phase and hit them with double acies. Openings will be made and you can take advantage of that. Then you have your cav.

[@PADONAGG]

1. throw first pillum 2. throw second pillum 3. throw last pillum 4. retreat

[@maxmillion7042]

They would be stacked for that very reason ... And side by side with supporting units.

[@thehunter4873]

Remember the first time I went up against pikes, had no issues until I went east into Greece as the Romans, didn't know pikes were so strong so 4 units almost killed my entire army (his other troops did very little) was very confused how it happened for a while

[@redcastlefan]

It seems that many in the comments are saying range units are the best way if you can't flank. But in honesty, you should account for the fact that the pike player won't let you do that, he could have his own range such as slingers or archers which beautifully counter the ranged threat of javelins since slingers need way too long to damage pikes and archers are also negligible. or even send cav to scare off your range.

[@maxmillion7042]

The pike formation us to wide would never be that wide .

[@kevinp5325]

The issue with Rome 2’s depiction of pikes is that it attempts to adopt a rock paper scissors approach with unit counters. Pikes basically beat, or seriously degrade, anything charging frontally, but are in turn vulnerable to rear charges and missile fire and get messed up when caught out of formation. The historical reality was that pike units were in fact much more flexible - meaning they could be used as a massed wall of spears but also as more flexible infantry. The other reality is that they were not the insta-death, mass-killing machines as depicted in game. They were excellent at pinning enemy forces to enable supporting units (cav or other infantry) to flank or exploit weakness in the enemy line. Vanilla, IMO, does a poor job at showcasing this nuance. DEI mod, by comparison, does a decent job of depicting pike units - their killing speed is slowed to a crawl, but they can hold out nearly indefinitely from frontal attacks. Combined arms tactics have much more relevance in this mod.

[@bentheboche2]

Pikemen are so easy to deal with in Rome 2 .... Use your skirmishers on them or let your swordsmen stand right in front of them and let them kill most of them with javelins then charge. Option 1 : Use any kind of skirmishers on them. Option 2 : Attack them with an infantry unit in loose formation (front) then flank them with cavalry or other infantry. Option 3 : While their phalanx mode is activated, the phalanx unit is getting tired very fast, best time to attack them is when they are exhausted. That's it no big deal. AI is easy to beat in any mode. Other players that's an other think ^^

[@marcusgodioso277]

Benjamin De Pückler if your swordsman stops to throw javs ,I can put my pikes out of phalanx and charge without being charged by your units before u throw the javs and then I would active the phalanx formation again .if u are shooting me with skirmishes I would rush your army.no good player would let they pike unit unprotected without supporting units.and when units are in phalanx formation ,they don't get tired faster.test using an royal spartan in phalanx formation vs a pretorian and see who gets tired first...

[@konstantinosmavrias3160]

If you have high quality infantry.. big If.

[@barbarbarbarson2436]

If you make a good pentagon with pikes like Foot companions, they can be defeated only by heavy missile shots.

[@kairon5249]

the best way to beat a SOLID line of pikes (no gaps) is to focus all your missile fire on one part of the line, then blob your infantry through the gap to encircle the entire formation.

[@rdg665]

Doesn't work if the pikemen army has archers as well , They will shoot your archers.

[@kairon5249]

@@rdg665 "missile fire" includes javelins, which can quickly tear pikes apart. they wont have more archers than you because they will have to field pikemen. even if they end up defeating you, you will have inflicted humongous casualties. Then you can defeat the pike army with a REAL army.

[@rdg665]

@@kairon5249 archers can also destroy javlienmen before they get in throwing range ...

[@kairon5249]

@@rdg665 what you could do to combat this is just have archers of your own and use them to kill the enemy archers, then use your javelinmen to attack. In DEI at least, javelinmen can throw all of their ammunition before the archers even kill 20 men.

[@nathanhull8302]

The thing is that in a live game the enemy will move the pikes into a bette position so the flanking wouldn’t last long

[@oleksijm]

Or so you think. Rotation takes time and remember - he has to micro many other units at once, so a flanking manoeuvre may well go unnoticed.

[@oleksijm]

Unless it's AI in which case yes, it will reposition its units on time.. most of the time.

[@SkillaWillits]

This very informative, but most pike engagements will be 3 or four units protecting each others flanks with only the flanks on either ends being exposed.

[@The_Real_Maxajax]

Dear Maximus Decimus Meridius, I realize that I am joining into this debate rather late, seeing as the video was released in 2014, however there is one more method that you have not tested. This is one that I learned in 2007 during tournament training in the Sith Clan. This method provided essentially guaranteed success without the need for going as wide as possible in order to get around the pikes. It is called "the Run-through" and works as follows: - 1: The Roman infantry throws pila and charges, resulting in the following: i.imgur.com/RYVeI7e.png - 2: Once the charge finishes, enable Guard mode and give a run order behind the phalanx. The infantry will then run through the pikes and start rubbing up against the Pikemen. Once enough Legionaries have run past the pikes to your tastes, give them an ALT attack order to skip pila throwing and start meleeing the Pikemen straight away. This should look like this: i.imgur.com/zHP3lZ9.png - 3: I think we both know what happens when the Roman infantry is past the pike points: i.imgur.com/0FVs5ID.png - 4: In Rome 1 this statistically resulted in the best outcome and I encourage you to test it in Rome 2: i.imgur.com/OYPtoqs.png I used to teach this method to clan trainees after I became the head of training of my clan in 2009 so I was rather surprised to see that this had been forgotten. Especially since every single clan worth their salt in Rome 1 used this.

[@ITSMRFOXY]

Yup, this is actually the historically accurate option.

[@AussieAussieOZoioioi]

When you're left with only melee units and they have formed a circular pike formation....

[@marcusgodioso277]

AussieAussieOZoioioi the noob box you mean?

[@deepsouthredneck1]

If they reinforce the corners it's GG.

[@CHRISTOS_KAZANOPOULOS]

So is no way to beat pikes from the front only if you outflank them

[@pira707]

or ya know maybe shoot arrows at them?

[@CHRISTOS_KAZANOPOULOS]

Exactly Pira because they had smaller shields than the oplon so they was more vulnerable from the missiles .For this reason Alexander had the Cretan archers and Seleucid dynasty had the Syrian to protect them

[@mikotosuoh5752]

Χρήστος Καζανόπουλος or pikes vs pikes

[@CHRISTOS_KAZANOPOULOS]

Mikoto Suoh This will be quick and pyrrhic

[@marcusgodioso277]

Χρήστος Καζανόπουλος u can try using scorpion bolts. When some soldiers are still in the ground ,try charging with a cheap infantry I guess.same works with catapults

[@apigeonunapaloma6379]

i just had a really firey poop

[@andreashauschild5101]

pikes in city streets are without missiles impossible to take down. Best defense for the buck.

[@theARMYGamer]

Every seasoned vet knows, pokes are ineffective. Unless you have them blocking narrow passageways. For example a siege. And you have the main road blocked by pikemen.

[@aaronstorey9712]

Spam right click behind the phalanx. Your men will walk right through them

[@versacos]

Guys if u can u need to laight charge frontaly then push with lose formation...if u are playing against 4 foot companions go for it but if u are playin against 5 or more just dont do shit and try to attack as hard as possible and disctract the enemy while u try to flank from right or left side (the most effective is from sides becuase from the back is not that effective)

[@Toxic-xd5um]

Pikes in Rome 2 are super unrealistic

[@MrJH101]

So in summary, use loose formation to flank enemy pikes. And if you're the one using them, make sure your flanks are secure with more pikes or some other unit.

[@MEUAR]

Short answer: don't. Long answer: just fuckin don't.

[@cotnegogshelidze4936]

archers and slingers are the best killers of pikes

[@zondor8123]

I usually uses missiles till it dry, after that, the Phalanx usually retreated back with severe casualties