Total War: SHOGUN 2 1vs1: Matchlock Ashigaru (ODA vs OTOMO)

[@sittthugyii6514]

I like way they waited last guy to finish reload to get full volley to rout

[@TotalWar1vs1]

😈👍

[@Pls_dont_eat_macat]

Otomo Matchlock Ashigaru: That's the power of friendship MTF

[@TotalWar1vs1]

@@Pls_dont_eat_macat 😂

[@simonphoenix3789]

watching this makes me miss how much more detailed this game was compared to the warhammer games. the units actually reload each time and fire in ranks rather than just all magically shooting at once and standing still doing nothing the rest of the time.

[@MrVlad12340]

Going to play devil’s advocate here but making animations for one set of near identical human models is easier then making animations for all the various Warhammer races so CA could put in more attention to details. However to add to that in Shogun 2 all units use the same sword fighting animation, be that Ashigaru or Samurai or western unit like Tercios. So its also not perfect.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Not perfect but much better than warhammer in my opinion.

[@aoffydosy1530]

Don't forget their leadballs cannot oneshot enemies like historical sequels.

[@kolpere1625]

Shogun is the game i always tend to come back after a while. Its wonderful to see theres still support. Its perfect as it is. Nothing more nothing less. Well, maybe adding another faction, like playing as the ashikaga clan?

[@TotalWar1vs1]

@@kolpere1625 You can always use a mod to play Ashikaga.

[@Lo-tf6qt]

Honestly I was more surprised at how quick the Oda ashigaru reloaded compared to the Otomo lads, if the Oda matchlocks were drawn up in 3 ranks instead of 4 I'm pretty sure they would've had that one

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Yeah 👍. But I had to make 4-rank formation as the AI for fair.

[@TheGameDomeGuy]

And like always otomo fire arms prove their superiority

[@TheRewasder97]

they have the same ranged stats, in fact, oda has better melee stats and are cheaper

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

@@TheRewasder97 All Oda Ashigarus are cheaper. But in this case, the Otomo Matchlock Ashigaru is actually better. The value of the Otomo Matchlock Ashigaru is that you can get it much earlier in the campaign because it needs only Attack by Fire, as opposed to Gunpowder Mastery. That's a lot of turns you're saving. If you play the Oda, and you want to use guns, it's best to just import them from the Portuguese.

[@TheGameDomeGuy]

@@TheRewasder97 still otomo is the PEW PEW clan so it makes sense they win XD

[@TotalWar1vs1]

😈👍

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

Hey, man. Would you do some tests with the Takeda Cavalry? I always see that clan being placed really high on tier lists because of their supposedly uber cavalry but in my experience they're extremely overrated.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Okay bro! I'll make many tests for them.

[@kolpere1625]

Keep in mind that in this game battles are fast af. Everyone dies easily, and more if talking about cavalry. And well, having yari ashigaru as the most basic and still the SS tier unit of the entire game doesnt help too. You have to stay alert when micro cavalry or you will lose them in a blink.

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

@@kolpere1625 So here's my perspective on Cavalry: Cavalry has 3 main purposes: 1. Hammer and Anvil 2. Chase down routing units 3. Disrupt enemy skirmishers Because of the way the game works, Light Cav is actually as effective, if not more than the more elite cav units. Meaning, there's really no point hiring anything other than Light Cav. When it comes to fighting other Cav units, you should never use your own Cav. Even if they win they'll suffer heavy losses, ruining the unit for the rest of the fight. Use spearmen. I really struggle to see the point of a faction based on Cav when normal light Cav is almost identically as effective as their fancy Fire Cav (which often loses to normal Yari Cav, btw). And also, maybe it's just me but it seems virtually every army the AI throws at me is made up of like 70% spearmen.

[@kolpere1625]

@@Gabriel-ip6me well, light cav can fill the role too, but i feel like yari cav is the perfectly balanced unit from all cavs. Samurai tier unit, recruited almost at the first turns of the campaign, and can obliterate every archer and general on sight. Then you have the takeda cavalry, basically an overpriced but stadistically superior cav, not as good in terms of cost-performance, just for the sake of flavor. But still having a cav faction is not that bad too. Basically your enemies doesnt have archers anymore in every battle xd.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

@@kolpere1625 👍

[@whiskys3814]

The imported matchlock are pretty dangerous. They kill more than normal Ashigaru matchlocks

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Okay bro! I'll test them vs normal ashigaru.

[@kolpere1625]

Man just after i decipher how to use matchlocks properly (i used a mod that enables yari samurai to use the ability of square formation, from shitty unit to super unit lol) its hard not to use otomo clan again. And more knowing you can have matchlocks ashigaru with just 1 matchlock tech tier before than just waiting 65 turns. And without talking about nanban trade ship lmao. Just 2 to win every naval battle, 3 to overkill.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Are you sure? Matchlock units get rekt vs Bow Monks 😈 I always use Bow Warrior Monks to counter them and win easily.

[@kolpere1625]

@@TotalWar1vs1 achktually, you are right, for mp they are "shit". But i was talking about the campaign, the thing is completely different: -non monk clan just use ashi/samurai spam, even without improvements. Vs full armored tercos (+5 armor) you can put 3 tercos on the frontline and forget about getting casualties (even to use Fire by rank) -Even using the raw power of the tercos, you can cheese the dumb ai by using yari cavalry and kite them 1 by 1 when they are on defensive mode.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

@@kolpere1625 Agree! The AI always suck at using matchlock units 😈

[@SeverusFelix]

With such a clear superiority in melee, the Oda should have charged with steel in hand!

[@TotalWar1vs1]

😈👍

[@Mars-d9m]

The final salvo looks cool af

[@Falcon0BR]

Yeah, I was wondering why they weren't shooting... It was for better dramatic effect.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

They waited until all sodiers finished reloading to fire all in once.

[@karlenglewood8940]

So could this have gone either way? We need more tests.

[@_NoName_314]

ranged stats wise yes, they're exactly the same...

[@danilshcherbakov2126]

Oda lost because they were firing with three depleted front ranks, and not the 4th rank, but the ottomo ashigaru reformed into a 3-rank formation, all of whom were firing

[@TheRewasder97]

@@danilshcherbakov2126 basicallly, yes

[@_NoName_314]

@@danilshcherbakov2126 ohhhhh good point :D

[@TotalWar1vs1]

👍

[@danilshcherbakov2126]

@1:38, I didn't know units can get XP by being killed

[@Z4rius]

Just found that out too I was wondering why my sacrificial ashigaru suddenly have almost max level with only 20 of them remaining

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

They can, but they also lose XP when replenishing, so it's not a good idea to let them take heavy losses.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Replenishing in shogun 2 does not lose XP.

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

@@TotalWar1vs1 Are you sure? It might be a mod (though I'm not really using anything other than the 10th anniversary edition, and that shouldn't have that effect) but my units are absolutely losing XP when replenishing.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

@@Gabriel-ip6me I'm pretty sure about it. I'll check it again. I don't use mods.

[@davidpigott9958]

That was ridiculously close, stat-wise the Oda seemed better than the DLC Otomo, maybe they level-up quicker?

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

The difference is likely too small to matter. 1 extra point here, two extra points there often don't make any difference.

[@_NoName_314]

@@Gabriel-ip6me not like Oda had any better stats in shooting... just in melee combat

[@TotalWar1vs1]

I think because of RNGesus.

[@RyangMari]

Their stats in a pure shootout are literally identical, main difference is the very clear melee superiority of the Oda

[@britishsoldier1186]

the Oda have a lower up keep which is really the only difference that matters between them

[@loreofmetalenthusiast]

I'm surprised how long they both held

[@TotalWar1vs1]

😈👍

[@_NoName_314]

i don't get why Oda shoot their second volley faster than Otomo.... 1:20 and managed to kill less units (120 -> 92 vs 118 -> 83)

[@canagi7210]

That is what you call RNG

[@trungphamhoang6670]

With exact same stat and behavior, RNG is the only one matter here

[@kyokushinbaka6046]

No its because of fire by rank, the AI does not use fore by rank, the player is using it. Fire by rank doesn't work very well instead of 3 volleys one after the next there is a big delay between volleys, which means without fire by rank you get more kills over a set amount of time.

[@_NoName_314]

@@kyokushinbaka6046 pretty sure AI is also using Fire by Rank in this vid, 1:00 you can see the 3 rows shooting and kneeling and after 1:20 you'll see Otomo shooting 3 times in a row again making Oda drop from 118 -> 105 -> 92 -> 83

[@_NoName_314]

@@canagi7210 hehehe i don't mean i don't understand from the RNG perspective but from the soldiers.... Oda managed to kill 28 units in 3 volleys with 118 men how the fk they allowed 92 men trained exactly the same with the boom sticks to kill 35 of them.... just WTF Oda matchlock ashigaru, don't be the shamefur unit in your clan!

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

Man, I wish someone had made a mod to speed up the animation using Fire by Rank. It looks so cool by it's just so slow.

[@arphakornkitphanich9835]

It's depend on reload speed, I think.

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

@@arphakornkitphanich9835 It does depend on reload speed to a degree, but the animation itself is really slow. There's something like a 4 second delay just for the unit to start firing.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Yeah👍

[@AhmedAomar-x9t]

Matchlock-Ashigaruian Civil War circa 2132.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

😈

[@rpk321]

There are a lot more Otome gun shooting at any one time than Oda because Oda's 4th line didn't shoot at all and Otome 3 lines all fire.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Otomo Ashigaru had 4 lines bro! Please watch the video carefully.

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

Wait, I thought the Oda Matchlock Ashigaru had better stats? I guess it's not enough to matter.

[@jaystrickland4151]

Better melee stats.

[@genghiskhan6809]

And cheaper.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

😈👍

[@TheDAWinz]

Can we get Royal Peltasts vs Every single unit in every total war at the same time?

[@TotalWar1vs1]

It seems to be very long tournament...I'll try it.

[@Zfast4y0u]

dressed as samurai to fight vs bullets.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

😈👍

[@aoffydosy1530]

I noticed Oda variant have 4 roles, and the 4th cannot fire.

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

Fire by Rank only allows the first 3 lines to shoot.

[@kolpere1625]

@@Gabriel-ip6me yeah, the optimal way is 3 ranks for everything.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

In my test, Both Oda and Otomo had 4 ranks.

[@kolpere1625]

@@TotalWar1vs1 it depends of the reload skill. Higher reload speed means that the first rank will shoot again before the 4th line of your infantry have the chance to shoot too. Thats why at some point you can use 2 rank tercos with that absurd reload speed at lvl 9. And its devastating.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

@@kolpere1625 👍

[@TheRewasder97]

what about the ikko ikki? they have more models per unit? Is it worth it?

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

Their Ashigarus are not worth it, too inaccurate. Their Warrior Monks are pretty good. But they don't have Fire by Rank, so it would be difficult to test on equal conditions.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Okay bro, I'll test Ikko matchlock units.

[@kolpere1625]

They are the shittiest unit in the entire game. Maybe they should buff them to at least 25 more acc with the same shitty reload to have a niche there. I ve always seen the ikko like disciplined people when looking the matchlocks monks. So it makes sense having the art of having good accuracy but having no idea of reloading a boom stick.

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

@@kolpere1625 Yeah, they did them dirty. They should have been slightly worse, not so much worse they're useless.

[@guan8926]

Since their stats are identical, shouldn't the first to fire just win?

[@TotalWar1vs1]

RNG also has big impact.

[@WuW0w0-m8m]

On the paper they are the same so it is just rng that one wins?

[@TotalWar1vs1]

👍

[@olympusknight7805]

Do bullets cancel each other by hitting each other??

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Nope.

[@lorddoof3370]

Otomo are OP, endless fun spam, Portuguese ships, and priests to incite glorious crusade I upon Japan kind of makes the game a bit too easy

[@Gabriel-ip6me]

Otomo are simply the best clan in the game. Almighty God and Almighty Gun for the win.

[@TotalWar1vs1]

😈👍

[@GigaChadBrooskie]

Nice

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Thank you bro!

[@mareus12]

do portuguese tercos vs the warrior monks with guns, and the later doesnt have fire by rank you control the tercos so they dont use that

[@TotalWar1vs1]

Okay bro, I'll try.

[@sitrakamatthieu]

Christ prevails all the time ❤

[@TotalWar1vs1]

😈

[@RLF1949]

I call this a Christian bias

[@TotalWar1vs1]

lol 😈

[@rastlonadjalin9455]

DEUD VULT

[@TotalWar1vs1]

😈