Toyota Just LOST Cars

[@IdealMediaChannel]

Thoughts on Toyota killing off the A90 Supra already?! Learn how we make money buying and driving Ideal Cars for FREE - bit.ly/FREEICSWORKSHOP Find a Supra or ANY Ideal Car using Autotempest - www.autotempest.com/s/YNmPWz

[@shawnaning101]

It was always a planned sunset on the cooperation between the 2 car companies. Nobody is killing it off, there are 3 car companies involved in the production that had a contract with the sunset written in.

[@RoastPorkandGreens]

Hey bud, just want to tell you your barber is absolutely horrible and you need to find someone that understands how to shape your head. If nobody has told you before, you look ridiculous with that haircut.

[@NightsN2dr3ams]

Unfortunately hybrids and electric vehicle's have a stronger demand than the sports cars enthusiast. Will just have to wait and see what happens.

[@Pahskie]

Why you guys change it from ideal media to ideal

[@ripandtear]

stop with the stupid AI thumbnails

[@jmccarsnmore1025]

If the Supra dies is not because of us. Is most definitely because of Toyota dealers’ markups.

[@chrisginoc]

Absolutely. The price gouging and markups have people bitter in this comment section. In the 90’s the MKIV was too pricey so they stopped producing it. This time around the MKV was killed off by greedy dealerships and by a dying segment which is the car enthusiasts. SUV’s sell not sports cars.

[@dennishughes721]

Some Toyota dealers haven’t had a new one the lot in nearly a year. It has nothing to do with markups. If a manual Supra shows up with a markup I guarantee it’s already sold.

[@Soulquarian]

The MKV isn’t sitting in lots, even with the markups. It’s a supply issue, not demand. Go on forums where people have actually had deposits for months/years and you’ll see that. I just got one a couple weeks ago after searching a year myself. Dealership had two allocations, both sold before they even made it to the states.

[@crisdlcruz145]

No it because its a BMW When it first launched that cheaply assembled german trash had at least 3 recalls for poor welding wiring issues cant remember the last one

[@bradwhite5884]

​@@crisdlcruz145 If its the BMW the issue with you, then you need to get yourself some help tbh, or just grow up, it's just a car, so yeah

[@1989red13bfc]

Cars are also super expensive these days… corporate greed, government greed, poor economy, gas prices, housing… it’s rough to buy a toy these days.

[@everss02]

Sport bikes are faster and way cheaper, easy choice

[@TehNiCoLaS]

@@everss02 and bikes are more dangerous lol, cars are more fun, comfortable, more luxurious list goes on

[@everss02]

@@TehNiCoLaS just for the poors that ride on the street, racetrack life here.

[@forthesnowflakes7691]

We need to eat the rich or vote Progressive to eat the rich lawfully

[@javantgarde]

​@@forthesnowflakes7691Yeah sure because I love deep blue states where I can't tint my windows in 100+ degree weather or go to jail because I changed my muffler. Great idea 👍🏼

[@christopherthompson9642]

Supra is dying because dealers are charging $5-20k over MSRP. If dealers were charging MSRP I’m sure they’d fly off the shelf.

[@jpnphom5470]

The C8 was $40k plus over MSRP and has no problem…if this Supra can do 0-60 in 3.5 sec it’ll have no problem selling…Japanese don't understand the concept of building a sports car…Bring a knife to a gunfight…

[@RoninGamingFox]

No the dealer Mark up is only part of the issue because the 40k tag base is the other issue

[@diegosilang4823]

Japanese understands how to build good cars, we have the classic NSX and Toyota Supra. However, Toyota made a mistake of using expensive BMW platform and assembled in Europe, Toyota ended up building a better Z4 and an insult to Toyota's Japanese image of reliability and good value.

[@jpnphom5470]

….Unless the Japanese could design a car that level In the looks and performance the like Lamborghini Huracan, Fort GT, Ferrari, and When you see you’re in shock at their design are extraterrestrial… Japanese do not grasp this concept or understand that… introduces a sports car that barely can compete with the American V8. The GTR destroyed everything but let it sit there for 15 years and hardly get any updates. The same with NSX….Like a Judo one-time champion do not continue to train and let be destroyed. Most Japanese sports cars are on self-destruction…even Toyota builds its own Supra it still wouldn't sell them unless it could pull against a Corvette C8…a C8 could be had at 70k

[@Vermonstered]

​@@jpnphom5470The Japanese methodology wouldn't ever build that car though. As it doesn't have any of the prestige of the European brands. The LFA sold like junk and was only respected after it went out of production. Japanese car enthusiasts are chasing a different car than European exotics and there isn't much crossover especially considering how big a tariff there is on Japanese cars in the EU. Less than 10% of all Toyota's sales happen in the EU. Honda barely has even a footprint in the EU even though the most sold cars in the world are the Corolla and Civic.

[@jasonle2511]

Get rid of dealerships.

[@NightsN2dr3ams]

You mean stealerships

[@FroggyplayzTyyy]

Have car buying online and stuff

[@brdllc]

That will never work lmfao

[@NightsN2dr3ams]

@@brdllc Lol

[@BimmertechG01]

How do you expect your factory warranty, recalls, and genuine parts distribution to work?

[@nehoni7547]

Will there even be any cars left when I finally have the money to buy a nice one 😭

[@jeromesuckie9832]

Used car market u might even save some money with the same amount of fun

[@user-ek5nl1jc4b]

You will have a chance, it will just cost you a lot of money because prices are steady going up

[@marquisethomas5611]

Nope, youtubers are going to keep driving the prices up & us regular guys will watch from our hyundai's

[@tonymorfin8750]

@@jeromesuckie9832 Even more fun.

[@lawrencewong4347]

depends on what kind of car you want you can get a pretty nice gr 86 for msrp it is fun to drive but definitely not going to be the fastest thing in the dealership that's the gr corolla but you definitely never see a supra on the dealership floor

[@PatrickHenry-t1s]

They could literally modify the camry chassis components for the Supra I dont wanna hear it. The reason for slumped sales is the affordability crisis, hence why 86 sales are up.

[@encinobalboa]

Supercharged 2GR-FE would have been perfect in the Supra.

[@skiterzzz4474]

@@encinobalboaand the new i3 in the lower trim boom problem solved

[@ggthx]

@@encinobalboa Toyota cant use that engine since Lotus has it, and they signed a contract...

[@tempeztad]

All the options mentioned are disparity... I've been a 2GR tuner for a while and the 2GR is crap in compared to the B58. Carry chassis is crap too as is too heavy and not enough structural integrity to even be close to the MK5 chassis which is way different from the one in the Z4. Embrace what we have instead of the purist crap.

[@PatrickHenry-t1s]

@@tempeztad You just described a Mk4 also lol

[@digitalprty]

I got on a waitlist for a manual Supra in April last year at my local dealership. I was first in line and at MSRP (no markup). Nine months later, and not a single example came in, and no time frame given. So, in January this year, I went to BMW to test drive a manual M2. Put my deposit down that day and ordered it EXACTLY how I wanted it. Less than four months later, it’s sitting in my driveway. Toyota’s (non)ordering system ruined my sale (and likely many, many others). Plus, my daughter loves the M2, and since there’s a back seat, she can come with me anywhere.

[@fredEVOIX]

my sporstcar years are behind me I'm switching to a RAV4 and quickly learned Toyota sends cars in batch every x months and you can't customize them (except premium but you pay more than a full spec model it makes no sense) the lack of customization isn't a problem it's smarter I think working in the industry, changing machines always causes problem it's more reliable to build the exact same car all day long, I pretty much have a few weeks to sell my car and get one of the rav4 gr sport that arrive in july or i'll have to wait end of year or 2025, you're better off with the M2 enjoy it :D

[@digitalprty]

⁠​⁠@@fredEVOIXmy daily is actually a 2019 RAV4 Hybrid Limited. In the process for getting that one, I emailed multiple dealerships with my preferences and asked what their best price was for the ones they had in stock. (Again, no special-order possible). I ended up getting one with 95% of what I was looking for. Plus, having multiple dealerships compete for my business saved me thousands while negotiating. Hope you have the same luck!

[@diegosilang4823]

@digitalprty lose to lose situation.

[@stefanosodano]

I was in the exact same situation, was on a waitlist for a Supra for over a year and ended up with a manual M2 instead. Better car no doubt but I’d have gotten the Supra in a heartbeat if Toyota actually let me order it.

[@georgemichaels2325]

No body can afford the payments. There I said it.😏

[@chrisginoc]

Exactly. It’s more expensive now than in 2020-2021 with interest rates are historic lows.

[@albireoish]

MSRP of an 87' mk3 supra was $22,260+tax/markup. That's roughly 61k+ in today's money. The 2024 supra 3.0 goes for plus tax. Toyota did a good job keeling a similar price point over time.

[@Wayne3nterprises]

Ppl are buying expensive cars... no one wants the new supra. It's a niche group of vaping wanna bes who like it and they're numbers are not enough to move the needle. The masses do not like it. It dying is the debate ender. The cost cope doesn't work, expensive cars are selling. The supply cope is a joke too, I can Google a ton right now for sale, even new.

[@Vermonstered]

​@@albireoishThe MK4 turbo was around $46k MSRP in '94. That's basically 100k in today's money. The MK5 is no where near that and people still won't pay for it yet Caymans and base C8's aren't sitting on lots with the same markup in a slightly higher price category. People just don't want this car even though price to performance is great and the Supra performs better than the Z4 it's based on.

[@albireoish]

@Vermonstered I'm just curious if you own either of those cars?

[@RedspencerIS350]

Some clarification regarding the low sales of the GR Supra and the 2026 end date. The production plan with Magna Steyr in Austria (where the GR Supra and Z4 are produced) has always had a production end date of 2026 (a six year life cycle). The current low volume of GR Supras is not a demand issue but a supply issue (production line ramping down/). Also, the platform used by both the Supra and Z4 was codeveloped between BMW and Toyota using the Porsche Cayman and Boxster as their benchmark. After the platform was developed, Toyota and BMW went their separate ways to develop their own chassis for their model. The J29 chassis that the Supra utilizes was primarily engineered by Toyota and Gazoo Racing while the Z4 G29 chassis was BMW developed. The Supra's chassis is comparable to the Lexus LFA in torsional rigidity, center of gravity, curb weight, and the golden ratio track width/wheelbase. Though the B58 is BMW derived, Toyota throughly analyzed all components/parts of the engine to ensure it meets Toyota's rigid reliability and durability metrics.

[@frelatrz9246]

I really appreciate the explanation man, thank you

[@richie.grainger]

You should have done this video... would of been more factual then.

[@davepaturno4290]

Exactly. According to Car & Driver magazine writers, the GR Supra is a superior sports car compared to the BMW Z4, which is more of a grand touring car (a very good one).

[@YOSHI_MEAT_SOUP]

Three main reasons the supra didn't sell as much as it should have: 1. Dealer markups. If you could get it at the promised price, more people would buy it. Without putting 20k or 30k down, the average person can't afford the car due to 10k and 15k markups, and the average person can't afford to put 20k or 30k down. 2. Production limitations. Supply chain issues have been hurting the market for the past five years pretty hard, and a car built in collaboration with two companies with separate parts from these companies mean multiple supply chain fail points. 3. 13-year-old kids saying, 'but it's a BMW,' and the people who can actually afford to buy a supra letting themselves be influenced by these idiots before forming their own opinions. That being said, I waited 10 months to get my manual supra at MSRP and it was absolutely worth the wait. So, if you've been waiting to pull the trigger on one, do it. The car is awesome. And you know how many people said, 'but it's a BMW,' to me in person? Zero. It's just internet trolls. Every normal human being knows this thing is a monster and it turns heads everywhere I go.

[@chrisginoc]

Same here brother. I’ve had my MKV 6MT for a little over a year now and every time I drive it the car puts a smile on my face. It wasn’t until I first owned the car that I came online to find videos or hoping for a community and realize how many internet trolls hate it. There were a couple times I thought about selling because of the online trolls and the hate then I said forget that. Life is too short. Enjoy what you drive. I drive for myself not to please others

[@niban]

It took me 10months as well to find an MT in the spec I wanted with NO mark up.. IDGAF what anyone says about it, The joys it brings me is priceless

[@chrisginoc]

@@niban Exactly 👏🏼

[@coledyer349]

​@@chrisginoc recommend upgrading your shift linkage! Just blew mine to bits last week.

[@coledyer349]

recommend upgrading your shift linkage! Just blew mine to bits last week.

[@Zeroneii3]

>Doesn't give the people what they want >Surpised when people don't like it

[@tsubadaikhan6332]

All the researchers told Mazda there was no market for a Miata/MX-5. Totally different situation, but not giving people what they think they want isn't always a terrible idea. Edit; My friend has a GR Yaris. It's awesome, but he never asked for it or even dreamed of it.

[@touayaaj84]

People wanted a gtr….$100k and it’s unaffordable to 90% of the population. People wanted a Supra, $55k. Supra fanboys hate it. Supra fanboys can’t even afford a A80. 😂

[@Zeroneii3]

@@touayaaj84 I'd buy a Toyota made supra with a 3jz for 100k

[@ExtremelyOnlineGuy]

Honda with the ugly ass cbr600rr they’ve been shoving down our throats since like 2013. Don’t wanna give us the facelift model cause nobody is buying 600s from them. Like yeah maybe we’re tired of it and the older ones looo better so we rather buy that?? Tf?

[@arcturus4762]

@@touayaaj84 Lots of Supra teens like it because it’s a “a sports car that will destroy all others while being cheaper” and they want an underdog story because they can’t afford a Porsche. Turns out, they can’t afford a Supra either lol

[@rexyoda]

Saying car companies are focusing more on profits means they were not before, that i find that hard to believe

[@mrfawkes9110]

They were focusing on profits before, by making a better product than their competitors, unlike now where they just nebulously chase profit and never consider making a better product.

[@M0viLover]

Agreed. Two words: Cadillac Cimarron!

[@xXYannuschXx]

Alot of JDM legends were made for brand recognition and not direct profits. A good example is the Integra Type R, which Honda lost money with every sale of it. Thats why it was initially supposed to be a limited edition car, but the fans loved it so much they produced as many as were ordered.

[@JamesCAsphalt8]

I worked for and with Toyota for years. I can tell you that I don't want a BMW / Toyota Supra. The original 6 cylinder supra was a fantastic achievement and a great car. This BMW is not only too expensive in a crowded hypercar market, but it is expensive to fix. Moreover, Toyota mechanics are not BMW mechanics. Toyota should go back to their roots and make a supra that more people will buy and enjoy that is all Toyota inside.

[@mastercricket7626]

The ridiculous pricing and markups it's what's causing car companies to fail ..

[@dennishughes721]

There are no Supras on the lots!

[@lawrencewong4347]

toyota company doesnt even want you to buy a supra thats literally why they even made the gr corolla marizo edition

[@NightsN2dr3ams]

@@lawrencewong4347 Lol hypocrites

[@richie.grainger]

Exactly. Demand isn't the issue. Supply is.

[@AndreNguyen7]

Dealer markup is the problem. I was following the Camry to buy within 4 years it's marked up 8k more.. Same generation.

[@nafnaf0]

The BMW Z4 can be had at MSRP to 5% off all day and you can custom order it. I know if is a soft top and not quite as stiff, but the value is there and there is a manual available now

[@sktona]

Dealers kill special cars.

[@THEBIGCHULETA]

I blame greedy dealership mark ups and government meddling in business. We need sports cars. They already killed the challenger.

[@OldDyer]

Well I for one put my money where my mouth was I bought a 6spd Mk5 last year and will own it until the day I die.

[@mrjjthor]

Same here except mines was a 21 Supra. However, I got bored of mines within six months and sold it. The car was in need of a manual transmission but at the time there was no mention of a manual Supra hitting the market.

[@bengarrison5256]

Same brother. Got a renaissance red 3.0 premium 6mt black interior. Wish I could’ve gotten the tan because asymmetrical is kinda cool to me

[@bengarrison5256]

@@mrjjthor also the manuals are completely different. Way better (having driven both)

[@mrjjthor]

@@bengarrison5256 I believe you. Many times I found myself wanting to shift gear but forget it's an auto. Kept telling myself this car would be so much better with a manual.

[@SUPRA-C8]

Exactly what I did, even got full PPF for it to lock in the commitment. Waited 8 months for it and have no regrets. IMO the MT is a better driving experience than the C8 too

[@GAZZZA19790]

I was on the original waiting list and was only told late in the piece that it was not coming in a manual. So I bought something else. I only buy a new car every 5 years.

[@M0viLover]

"I only buy a new car every 5 years." Uh .. unless you are wealthy, you'd be better off doing 3-year leases, most likely.

[@Yggdrasill8]

@@M0viLover With leases, you pay the highest point of the car's depreciation, it's a scam

[@dogewithagun7]

I do not think that the new supra is bad, the b58 engine is great and mk5 is in every way better than the mk4. I don't know why people don't like brand partnerships which are for the better, because of competition Nissan made the 400z, this is good. Why does the car having a b58 (one of the best engines on the market) get people mad? I would be sad if Toyota doesn't make another supra cause of backlash.

[@fridayokoro2049]

You're buying a European car, not a Japanese one. In a way people feel like it's tainted. Tbf I like the car, just not enough to get one because it isn't a toyota original. Just me tho

[@dogewithagun7]

@@fridayokoro2049 even though I agree with your comment, most people will not be able to differentiate between a German and Japanese car, especially the 12 year old supra fanboys who haven't even driven a car, but still want a successor to the 2jz on the mk5. The b58 has great tune-ability and reliability

[@SUPRA-C8]

@@fridayokoro2049 That's how I felt in 2019, but I ended up buying the MT.

[@takaradope]

The new ceo of toyota wants to continue to build enthusiast cars he said in an interview with a Japanese based Auto magazine. In fact Toyota just revealed a 400hp turbo 4 cylinder for future vehicles that doesnt have hybrid assist

[@wildhogOW]

I ain't paying marked up prices that cost +30k€ more than it should, just because the retailing dealerships are greedy af.

[@Xristoforos41493]

“Ordering” a new car isn’t a thing anymore, not just for the Supra. I sell cars. You can get your name put on a car already on order that matches what you want as closely as possible, but that’s about it.

[@M0viLover]

“Ordering” a new car isn’t a thing anymore - * in the US.* From what I understand, it it actually the norm in Europe??

[@FOUR22]

Because there is always a 20% markup at the dealer

[@chriss2517]

Last year I needed a new car and this was on my list (a manual one). I test drove a used one (auto) and when I went in to ask about ordering one they told me they don't do that. The sale's guy also told me there would be a 10-15k markup depending on the trim I wanted to "reserve". At that point I realized I could buy a manual M3 with no markup and have it guaranteed to be delivered to me which is what I ended up doing. Toyota needs to fix how their dealerships do business or they will end up like Nissan.

[@davepaturno4290]

That must've been a while ago. Many manual-transmission Supra owners picked up their cars at MSRP. Yes, some had to fly out of state, but driving the car back home was a great experience.

[@RedLineAutoServices]

When this Z4 dressed as a Supra came out, my MK4 jumped in value... 😅

[@davepaturno4290]

The GR Supra is much better in every way. Remember, a 1967 Corvette can be worth more than a new Supra, but that doesn't mean the Corvette is a better sportscar.

[@Wolf-1260]

Compact/hot hatch are disappearing, too. That I don't understand. It takes less space, consumes less gas, and it less expensive. In a period of "recession" small economic cars should be what sells, but many car companies are discontinuing them?

[@users4007]

Compacts still exist, they just call them "crossovers" after lifting it 5 cm and slapping on ugly looking fender

[@Wolf-1260]

@@users4007 I'll go check that, thanks

[@Wolf-1260]

@users4007 I looked at some. Maybe some are smaller, but it looks heavier compared to a Ford focus or a Chevy spark. I mean, there are still Coralla and Civics (and probably some Peugeot and Renault, but parts are more expensive to import in North America). Americans brands definitely focus more on big SUV and crossover look like smaller SUV, but I'm not sure about how "compact" they still look big compared to a Ford Fiesta for example. Thank you for the informations, though. I appreciate it

[@Juanchomagro]

compact and hot hatch used to cater young and single people. now they are towards compact suv crossovers, for extra ground clearance and cargo space

[@Wolf-1260]

@Juanchomagro Things changes, I suppose. I am not very fan of cross-over, especially because they look more like an SUV and less like a fun sporty quick car. As long as 2010s cars are legal to drive, I should be able to find something that interests me amongs "older cars". But for people who wants brand new cars I guess they would have to buy a cross over or one of the fewer compact/hot hatch that are still produced to this day

[@guitarboyjeff]

Actually the Supra and that Z4 Roadster are very different from those who have driven both.

[@MrMegatron85]

I was thinking about buying one until i sat in it. Felt like a giant in that thing.

[@AnnatarTheMaia]

Nobody begged and pleaded for a rebadged BMW Z4 automatic. If it had been a TOYOTA product with a Lexus V8 and a manual, or TOYOTA's D-4D direct injected turbo diesel and a manual, then it would have been something special, something worth aspiring to.

[@boxoffisa]

I wonder why Toyota went to bmw for engine because they have 2GR and 4GR V6 engines that are very sufficient, lotus uses them a lot. For chassis, they should have worked with lotus too or even go their own platform and make the car cost effective. Now Supra is expensive and many can’t afford it when crossovers are taking over.

[@NightsN2dr3ams]

Overall costs

[@touayaaj84]

Inline 6 Turbo.

[@sheeshulex]

Even worse, Toyota already has a 2GR (and UR) powered GT Coupe car in production for a decade now which chassis could be repurposed - Lexus RC - together with Lotus' help in the supercharging department they could have made a lighter weight, "minimalist" variant of the RC200t/RC350/RCF but with spiced up engines.

[@boxoffisa]

@@sheeshulex yes my guy. You put it even better than me here. It’s mind boggling why they didn’t even do that. Actually they could have saved lots and with lotus, could have made a product that wouldn’t drag the Supra badge into calling it a BMW every now and then. I would like to see Supra with UR engine though. That 5.0 liter engine.

[@esh9x153]

@@boxoffisayeah and if they really wanted it to be inline 6 couldn't they somehow design one based on the inline 3s the gr yaris and corolla use? Would be cool to have a 550+ hp completely Toyota Supra

[@MHanssen]

The entire car was co-developed with BMW, the chassis was completely new, the engine got it's own code because of the higher standards Toyota forced them to use. Toyota tested everything down to bolts and wires on the car to check that they were up to Toyotas insanely high standards. There are also rumors going around in some japanise car magazines saying that we will get a facelift for 2026, which I presume the Z4 also might get. However another reason why sales might be low is because more people are going for the GR Corolla in the US and GR Yaris for Europe instead of the Supra

[@davepaturno4290]

Cost is a huge factor, but let's be honest; the GR Supra 3.0 is superior to the GR86 in acceleration.

[@mattdiaz805]

The rumor that they teamed up with Mazda and Subaru might signal a trifecta for a Japanese inline 6 considering the power plant in the CX-90.

[@cocoapuffpuffs7374]

The return of the Supra really showed how deaf the car companies are when it comes to listening to the customers.

[@thaiboxing67]

In my opinion the pain point was people were expecting a Japanese car with a Japanese motor and engineering reminiscent of the old 2JZ motor in the mk4. People were not pleased to pop the hood of their new Supra only to see BMW parts. I know lots of mods can be done but it’s not the same. It’s like Mazda and their RX-7. If they brought it back and come to find Chevrolet built the engine and chassis I would feel some kind of way

[@OgenBogen]

The dealership mark ups are a huge problem

[@dukecat1465]

Supra heart and sole is a inline six. Even if it is a BMW engine. A four cylinder or a V will not work. Would you buy a 911 Porsche 4 cylinder, NO you want a Boxer 6 cylinder. Toyota stop making inline 6's. So it would take several years to work out the bugs on a high performance engine if they made a whole new inline six. That why they went to BMW. If Toyota made a Supra from scratch you better to be able to afford a 120 to 160 thousand dollar price tag or more. Example FT-1. So you ask for a Toyota Toyota Supra it will cost. Then no one will buy it. Supra almost lives is in the exotic car world just shy of it.

[@princelulu332]

Totally agree

[@LuckyCharms777]

The problem is most people can’t afford $1,000-$1,500 car payments. There’s absolutely no reason for a performance car to cost so much. Upgrade the engine and suspension of the GR86, sell it for $40k and prevent dealer markups, and it’d sell like hotcakes.

[@Sarcastic_Asmodeus]

Too much BMW for me. Great car, though. I ended up opting for an LC500. Anyways, dealer markups, limited production, and the expense of owning any new sportscar today are astronomical. RIP, Zupra.

[@Yggdrasill8]

I would get an LC500 too if I could afford over twice the price of a new Supra 😅

[@davep2945]

It's always about sales. You can make every excuse in the book and blame everyone and everything you want but no matter why a car doesn't sell if it doesn't a manufacturer is eventually going to cut it. Talk is cheap and if there were really an army of fanboys ten of thousand deep putting up huge deposits then Toyota would have built their own sports car. But there's only an army of hot air and Toyota knew it so they partnered with BMW so as not to take it in the shorts as badly as they would have if they'd developed their own platform from scratch. It's like the truck guys demanding diesels in mid size and half ton trucks and then not buying them when a manufacturer gives them one. Manufacturers do occasionally take a shot knowing the likely end result and rarely are they surprised. Toyota knew the Supra hype would never lead to massive sales but they had the means and the partnership to give it a go and they did. Now a bunch of guys who were never going to buy one anyway are whining that they won't be able to. Reminds me of all the boo hoos when the Land Cruiser got the ax with nary a single wishful thinker willing to admit they were never going to buy one even if they had the money and not realizing Toyota wasn't selling but about 3000 a year.

[@Big-H517]

It doesn’t help that BMW is not letting use unlock the ECU to tune the car

[@khmerkidd2]

I got my 2023 Supra last year with 12 miles on it. I've been driving it every day since. I'm a die hard JDM fanboy, but it's a really great car for what it is. I have to give credit where credit is do. I hate to see that dealerships are gate keeping people from driving this car. 😕

[@ajatathemu]

How is them not making it accessible and price gouging the consumers fault? Seems to me they’re killing demand on their own.

[@toothlesszilla9982]

Even know there's fuck ton of mark 4 supra are in the state not legally

[@StealthNinjaX2]

I think because they are bringing back the MR2, but it is already confirmed that the cost of the MR2 will be in the supra range, so no point in selling 2 high performance coupes, there is already the GR86 for the lower tier

[@Urian94]

Seems it’s gonna go out like the RX8 did years ago.

[@chrisginoc]

RX8 was absolutely trash and so poorly unreliable.

[@kILLuMBuS]

Took 11months 3 deposits and getting on the "list" at 15 different dealerships to finally snag my 24 MT Strat blue Supra at MSRP. Worth the wait 100%

[@stevegonzales527]

one major reason. people are starting to prefer older cars. more fun and reliable. was going to buy the g80 m3, settled with an imported toyota sprinter trueno. dont regret it one bit

[@Yggdrasill8]

Yeah, reliability is going out the window due to more complexity and using less sturdy materials like plastic to keep the car lighter due to emissions and of course making profits of cheaper materials. In the future I would rather take a hybrid than a full electric vehicle considering the battery for a hybrid may cost five to seven thousand dollars whereas a battery on a electric vehicle can cost several tens of thousands of dollars.

[@TheSuburban15]

I want a wedge-shaped sports car, from before the whole world starting building cars to suit European pedestrian impact safety laws.

[@Luke-vg6ow]

I'm glad the UK didn't have these issues. Paid 1k over MSRP for the exact spec I wanted and arrived exactly when I expected it

[@lordhorg999]

A lot of people wanted a toyota not a damn bmw as soon as i found out it was a re skinned bmw it was a pass for me.

[@davepaturno4290]

Your loss! Consumer Reports magazine's 2024 April Auto Issue ranks BMW #1 out of 35 companies. Since their collaboration with Toyota, their reliability has increased significantly, allowing their overall rank to rise steadily over the past 5 years. Their #1 ranking is due to their following attributes: Performance/handling Reliability Ride comfort Quietness Efficiency Quality Infotainment/interior

[@tinytim71301]

Simple Answer. WE wanted a real Kaizen version of Toyota’s Celica Supra. Using a BMW as 95% of the car???Sacrilege! Absolute sacrilege. -Former owner of two Celicas.

[@encinobalboa]

Supra with supercharged 2GR-FE and homegrown chassis are well within Toyota's capabilities. Toyota gained nothing from BMW.

[@chrisginoc]

Just stop. This will never end I swear. You know how many people would have complained about a MKV close to $100k?? Look at the Lexus LC500. Pretty affordable car isn’t it? Human nature is to complain. We complained in the 90’s about the MKIV being too expensive .

[@encinobalboa]

@@chrisginoc Complain what? You offer no solutions.

[@tinytim71301]

@@chrisginoc no one asked you. Stop drinking your bong water.

[@bradwhite5884]

If a BMW engine is a problem for you, I'm sorry buddy, but you need help and need to grow up tbh, so shut your yap and start thinking for once

[@slickdog78]

I wanted a GR Corolla CE. I took my 2006 Scion xB daily in for service and they had a Core GR in the showroom. Went and looked at it and asked the salesman what it sold for. He said just a shade under $74,000. I laughed in his face and left. It wasn't even a CE. And for those scoring at home, that is almost $30k above MSRP. Criminals.

[@BrennenFackrell]

Found my CE for msrp in boise idaho

[@Seaninator-s9y]

i want that four banger in an new mr2, a modern mid engine sport car thats affordable

[@Yggdrasill8]

My sister had a MR2 but she sold it some time ago, she loved that car. I would get a new one if it did come out

[@mrjjthor]

A new MR2 with the GR Corolla engine would be epic!

[@54tristin]

The Supra needs a full surround door widow frame, which would allow a larger amount of headroom for ingress, egress

[@zippy0099]

There’s no point anymore because of the massive hp figures in todays suv’s😔 Not much fun to drive a Toyota supra or mazda rx7 when a model x or trackhawk would destroy them.🤷‍♂️ The sports car…is dying.😒

[@TheSuburban15]

Sports car does not equal drag car

[@TimkenBearing1111]

I dislike how many people seem to think straight line speed is all that matters. The way I see it, a sports car is a car that is incredible in every aspect of driving that isn't speed. Take that Supra against a Model X or Trackhawk on a racetrack with many corners and it will outpace them to no end. Can a sports car be incredible in a straight line? Yes. Does it have to be incredible in a straight line? No. Focus on corners. Straight lines are boring.

[@meh7850]

The price point is the issue with the Supra 65-70k vs 50k for a fully loaded S650 with a factory option supercharger. I see why people or going the other way

[@filipinovegaslife70]

I got to admit, the new Supra’s looks grew on me. I hated this thing when it first came out. Now it’s ok. Still can be better though. The front lights can be more aggressive and especially the rear lights should have a wider stance.

[@XyzyX154]

Me too. At first i was so against A90 since i always compare it to FT1

[@chrisginoc]

Get a manual if you can boys. Not even lying, the most engaging and fun car I have ever owned. Even if you one day get the Automatic you won’t regret it.

[@Yggdrasill8]

@@XyzyX154 An actual FT1 would be super-car price, at least $150,000 and up. Would have been better if Toyota just instead got the BMW B58 engine and then built the Supra GR around that using their facilities just like how the GR86 only has the boxer engine from Subaru but everything else on that car coming from Toyota.

[@NightsN2dr3ams]

Agreed

[@derbender9264]

My Supra was ordered customised, Manual, Lightweight, White Colour etc. Toyota offered even a Bilstein Suspension, a Milltek Exhaust, AC Schnitzer Spoiler etc. A 5% Discount. delivery will be in September. Maybe it’s different in each Market

[@Alex-UM7GTE]

Damn...not even long for the Supra to exist... it's already going to be axed... I actually like the Mk5 even if it's a BMW(Former Mk5 hater here)

[@patricstevenfernandez1163]

Only the engine is bmw, but the chassis and all, Toyota Gazoo Racing developed it.

[@Alex-UM7GTE]

@@patricstevenfernandez1163 ....i thought it was Z4 platform

[@rexthewolf3149]

⁠@@Alex-UM7GTEthe platform was designed for both cars with slightly modifications made to suit each vehicle.

[@Alex-UM7GTE]

@@rexthewolf3149 oh okay, sorry

[@lawrencewong4347]

toyota wants you to go pure toyota that's why they made the gr corolla

[@ChadTV-vi7lk]

They didn't ramp up production of the Supra. Most supra 3.0 gets sold within hours of its arrival on Dealers lot at above MSRP.

[@anonymousdogg1559]

A 58k+ car in a bad economy with 8-9 APR % being the average. Yea it can die. Along with their garbage “new” Tacoma riddled with high priced repairs, and so many dang issues

[@ThePuregamer01]

Nope, I absolutely refuse to believe that we as a car community are at fault. Yes most people wanted a new Supra. Yes it would cause more money to RND but that why they went with BMW do develop there new car. But who the hell can afford the f@ckin Supra with the dealerships are wanting so much money. I looked at a use A91 and they wanted 80 grand!!!! So no, we didn’t fail this car and we’re not a contributing factor of this cars decline in sales. IT IS 100% THE DEALERSHIPS FAULT!!!!

[@Mazhura_13B]

Theres always a market for sports cars. But the pricing just ain't it. They should be below 50k. Hell, id say below 40k or 30k

[@pjsneeringer5942]

its a BMW!😂 REAL Supra fan boys WANT A TOYOTA SUPRA

[@jmccarsnmore1025]

I guess they want a Yamaha Supra.

[@SiY11]

This is exactly why I bought a Subaru STI instead.

[@dogewithagun7]

Are you guys fucking 12!!??!?

[@dogewithagun7]

How did you not cringe while making that comment? The new supra is not bad, the b58 engine is great and mk5 is in every way better than the mk4. I don't know why people don't like brand partnerships which are for the better, because of competition Nissan made the 400z, this is good. Why does the car having a b58 (one of the best engines on the market) get people mad?

[@skiterzzz4474]

@@dogewithagun7they are🤦🏾‍♂️

[@grantwynn2944]

I bought a manual supra. I love the car. He's right about the order process though. I waited a whole year and my car still was not ready. Ended up finding the perfect spec at a dealer without a markup though so I was happy.

[@richardike2342]

I knew all this would happen as soon as l heard it had a BMW Z4 platform.

[@ChristianGroff-ns6oq]

Fr tho watch when bugatti makes their new hybrid 💀💀💀

[@NightsN2dr3ams]

A hybrid rotary would be dope I would like to see that happen.

[@ChristianGroff-ns6oq]

The truth is toyota wanted to bring back a fun car cuz alot of their cars are considered boring, like the prius, carolla, camry, crown, and much more, but they used alot of parts from a bmw that isn't popular enough to last for as long as 10 yrs your really better off getting a GR86 cuz it's a real toyota sports car that's very reliable, and prob pretty fun to, and its all based off of when toyota wants to discontinue it, not bmw, it even looks sort of like a nissan z To be completely honest I think the best Japanese sports cars to get are a Nissan R35 GTR, or a Nissan 350Z, or even a Mazda Miata Btw if you have the money for a supra mk5 and you want it, please get it

[@NightsN2dr3ams]

Don't forget the Nissan 370Z and Nismo variant's

[@TheSuburban15]

GR86 is a Subaru

[@ChristianGroff-ns6oq]

@@NightsN2dr3ams yeah those too 👌

[@Aminmotors]

Common misconception, the A90 / Z4 chassis was designed jointly by Toyota and BMW, it's not as if Toyota just took an existing BMW chassis and put a supra on top of it.

[@paramishin4869]

Bro it’s the dealerships that keep scamming

[@vaerio81]

“Our fault” ok bud

[@christopherdallenbach7897]

There are so many things that are causing the Supra to fail: 1. The economy is down and the Supra is a Luxury item. 2. It’s a BMW, a big appeal of the Toyota brand is reliability and competitive pricing so this partnership ended up alienating the customers that would Have been interested. 3. It didn’t launch with a Manual model, huge missed opportunity. 4. Dealer mark ups. 5. Locked ECUs making the car difficult to tune. The list goes on. The funny thing is I still love the car. I have owned my 21 Supra for 2 years now and it is definitely a great car.

[@twofortydrifter]

I don't ever recall pleading and begging for a Toyota Z4 or a B58.

[@kylekostamo1880]

The ppl that want a Supra are enthusiasts, and enthusiasts want real Toyota derived Supra not a BMW thats rebadged as a Supra. And thats the reason they do not fly out of the Toyota dealerships, you dont go to Toyota to buy a BMW. If Toyota themselves made a new Supra with an engine based off of the 2JZ they prolly wouldnt be able to build em fast enough. They definitely wouldnt have any trouble getting rid of them.

[@YOSHI_MEAT_SOUP]

They are quite literally flying out of the dealerships, and they can't build them fast enough.

[@wreak3r]

There really isn't a market large enough to justify them spending money to bring a 2JZ up to today's standards. A fully Toyota developed Supra would end up being more expensive than the current one for them to make up the money spent on development, which would make it sell even less. Take for example the GR corolla and the Nissan Z. They all doesn't fly off the dealerships. What does fly out of the dealerships are base model corollas and Nissan altimas.

[@sharpemang]

Get rid of the dealerships. I tried to get a Lexus RCF, qouted at 71k online and dealer tried to push it to 110k out the door. The dealers are killing cars

[@Ty420]

Dealership’s fault

[@esteemedenergy]

The A90 Supra is a fantastic sports car. Greedy dealers will likely kill it.

[@pastperformance2285]

It’s interesting to get an inside look at where Toyota is coming from and heading towards. Thanks Trav!

[@DARKELLAKEL]

The fans have spoken, but Toyota never listened, they, like all automakers today like to waste billions of dollars 😆 in this case an ugly non retro, non affordable BMW that no real Supra fan would ever want. What the hell made them actually think that would work? 😂

[@redparis9225]

I think the biggest issue with car companies these days is that they just see their brand as a way to make money and nothing else. If they can do the bare minimum and make profit they will. If money isn't guaranteed then don't bother. That's why we see so many SUVs, because it's safe for business. What happened to soul? Why does everything need to be only about the most efficient profit margins?

[@Swift_Dinosaur]

My issue is the few companies with sports cars. Us enthusiasts are all gonna have the same 1 option sports car

[@SoFarFromCrust]

I think dealerships are killing the industry

[@Yggdrasill8]

Greedy dealership, bean counting marketers, planned obsolescence engineers, and government emissions regulations are killing the industry.

[@Theconjurer17484]

60k for a supra. When the damn MKIV are going for roughly the same amount. Damn inflation is outrageous.

[@sseltrek1a2b]

i love the look of this car, but $60k+ for it with no custom options is ridiculous...

[@mondragonmsaul308]

As a a91 owner it’s also the lack of support in mantinance (they’re always out of the “special” gr oil) and what bmw considers regular mechanics Toyota consider them “specialist” and lack of replacement parts too is disheartening they don’t provide like replacement mats, car seat covers, replacement body parts or things like that I’d love to but a GR keychain or GR sun shade that fits snug on my Supra also I wished Toyota would have replaced the plastic pipes for aluminum on a stronger material because cali won’t even let you do that unless it’s CARB certified and none are CARB certified

[@kanzzon]

Dealers are killing the supra, making customers wait plus adding stupid fees is how you loose interest

[@Adones09]

4:27, I agree, but the problem is you end up with Mustang, just like any other basic bro. Don't forget to order your Pumpkin spice Latte.

[@timpindell8178]

Covid, inflation, and dealership markups keep me from one. It's a bummer, because I am now looking at a cars a coffee crowd dispersant vehicle.

[@fredeb67]

The Mustang, Camaro, ND even the C8 Corvette stole Supras sales.

[@r.weaver3769]

It dies because of Stealerships, not us. We're not as stupid as dealers would hope. Toyota should have fixed that...

[@mrjjthor]

The Supra/Z4 was only supposed to last for 5-6yrs. I'm sure if Toyota could they'd milk it for a bit longer.

[@blue6gun]

Yeah the A80 didn't sell well, even against Nissan's near $40K Z32 300ZX TT, but the A70 was a huge hit! MK3 Supra's and Z31 300ZX's remain the best selling GT cars the two brands ever sold in the US.

[@mattevans4377]

Pretty much all car companies are making record profits. I refuse to believe they can't take the hit of making some fun cars. The problem is simply greed.

[@Rogerraybemsleyjr]

if the supra had the 5.0 from the rcf would be sweet. just get the rcf lol

[@heh2k]

Supra sales went down because they LIMITED PRODUCTION. People (including me) had to wait over a year to get one (w/o a markup).

[@RoutinePlumbingLLC]

That's insane! $70k sticker for 3.0 premium supra. That's a brand new Corvette 1lt for the exact same price. It's just a total better package from top to bottom with the Corvette and far more potential when it comes to potential. Even crazier is you blast through 500hp with a simple upgraded 93 tune with everything staying else stock.

[@nofameculture]

I think its just moving things around for a 4 cylinder Celica and the MR2

[@bradwhite5884]

Yeah, the Supra will be back once they figure things out, we'll might see the Supra back once the new Celica and the MR2 comes out, hopefully have a 2J or a 4J engine, maybe a hybrid 2J tbh

[@nofameculture]

I 100% support your comment!

[@carboydorifutoparty3976]

​@@bradwhite5884 the best your gonna get is another B58 but open deck like other modern toyo engines. Every I6 now follows similar builds so it definitely wouldn't have any significance to the JZ in the slightest and may be closer to bmws B58 or they may use mazdas 3.0-3.3L I6 for it.

[@StrumVogel]

That FT1 ➡️ A90 bait and switch to the markup, and 6spd only in i6 model killed it for me. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Windows98R]

Pretty simple. Apart from Tesla, Rivian and the crowd of direct to consumer new-generations, all other cars never will arrive with that advertised price. If I see an Audi A5 advertised for 54k on Audi’s website or a GR Corolla for 45k on Toyota’s website, I automatically add around 10 grand or so to that price to get a car I want. Compare that to a model 3 or a R1T. The advertisement reads around 47k and 70k respectively. The car comes to my garage around that price + the usual fees and taxes. So no, it isn’t the consumer’s fault. Because most consumers are being screwed over by not getting the advertised price. A lot of us will walk over with the advertised price, be told a price with 10-15k above the advertisement and suddenly the crowd of 20 people that walked over is now down to 1 die hard wealthy guy and 2 KZbinrs.