Traditionalism is Insufficiently Radical (Audio and Visualizer Only)

[@katakesh8566]

This channel is a gold mine You do divine work🙏

[@matthiaswitt1063]

Dear fellow human being, I do not often engage with the public discourse in any field, but I am compelled to do so today. While generally valuing your thinking and work out of intellectual curiosity, this contribution seems different. The clarity and insights compacted and woven into a stringent narrativ in this video is outright genius. Bravo! Bravo! If you would print this lecture, I would be willing to pay a high price to re-digest in reading. Without a doubt one of the most profound and valuable contributions I was fortunate to take in in the past decades. Thank you for your work and the courage to let the greater public participate. Best, M

[@Formscapes]

Send me an email if you want the text document

[@matthiaswitt1063]

Thanks, I emailed to address indicated on your website. Best, M

[@tourist1313]

@@FormscapesI would like one as well

[@nicoraclejoyner]

“The Christian project is one of recreating the qualities of the Divine and Universal WITHIN the corporeal particularity of the human person. It is thus a project of Spiritualizing the bodily realm, not Escaping the bodily realm.” Absolute silk my friend! I can’t help but see the Tao as an underlining force here. The contrasting concepts of “societal project” and “social order” feeding each other in such a way, I can’t help but be reminded of the dualism in the Yin and the Yang. Then the bigger picture of the Yuga cycles coming into play, the Spiritualization of the social project is beautiful. The “inertia of the past” as you so eloquently describe, is the present’s momentum. The future is determined by how fast we reconcile. Thanks for this piece!! What a thought-provoking talk!! ❤

[@leosharman8630]

Great, and you wouldn’t need the bible for that, particularly the exclusively Jewish, psychologically and spiritually twisted Old Testament. There is so much quality and wisdom embedded in the Norse OR Celtic myths and stories.

[@Cochrynn]

I knew there was a reason I was still up

[@squishyushi]

It’s hilarious seeing this as marked for 2 days ago but the video is only 4 hours old for me because I don’t have early access

[@Cochrynn]

@squishyushi lol I watched it at 1 am, 9 minutes after it was dropped 1.99/mo is worth it

[@joelvinsant1189]

This is the best hour and a half of words I've ever heard. Thank you so much for your work. Truly illuminating and helps straighten out so many difficult ideas and concepts.

[@ouroborosnexus]

Transcending the left right dichotomy while transcending the einsteinian positivist worldview Hell yes

[@NotIT777]

And that is where the fun BEGINS

[@Archeidos-Arcana]

Thanks for this; easily one of my favorite videos of yours already - really helps to tie together some of the disparate threads I've been thinking about lately.

[@joshuafernandes6684]

Your video on Aliens is really good man. Your thesis about those extradimensional beings fighting becoming the evolutionary process is awsome! A pastor called Gavin Oturland based on traditional Christian Angeology and with some literally inspirations of C.S Lewis and Tolkien came about a very similar idea about a cosmic fall and evolutionary process.

[@mvondoom]

am seriously missing the Formscapes intro music and images, but i'll live. loving where this is going!

[@Formscapes]

This is just to hold everyone over until the next regular video essay is done. Videos like this aren't going to become a normal thing, or if they do, they will mostly just be for patreon/members

[@nicoraclejoyner]

@@Formscapesdo this more!! And do the Library of the Untold interview!! That convo is going to be epic!

[@Formscapes]

@@nicoraclejoyner That's scheduled for tomorrow, if all goes according to plan. I've also got an interview with Gigi Young scheduled for next week. I guess I also need to reach out to Jason Jorjani, though talking to him would be... interesting... given how much we disagree about lol

[@nicoraclejoyner]

@@Formscapes yessss!!!! I beat you to his channel by one day! lol. He is going live tonight after the premier. Please poke your head in and let us pregame the community to receive you!!! Also, about Jorjani; use Joey as a mediator. That, my friend, would be a higher form of LIT 🔥

[@telosbound]

Fantastic. Honestly can’t believe this is my first time coming across your work. Keep it up

[@Formscapes]

Lol funny that the first video you watch would be the one in which I mention you

[@myfriendscat]

The most brillant exposition of everything you discuss. Thank you!

[@Green-Bean1]

@Formscapes this is richer than I could have ever imagined. These ideas are so powerful you can’t quantify it, thank you so much.

[@BrandonCharpentier]

Thank you Formscapes! You are the best !

[@alexanderflood1462]

Thanks for this video. This really speaks to me as a former devout Catholic (one whose path to agnosticism was facilitated by, ironically, Jordan Peterson). I can still see the value within Christianity as a wisdom-structure, and I recognize the nihilism and intellectual schizophrenia inherent in secularism/materialism/liberal capitalism. However, when I reconnect with any groups from my trad Cath days, I'm confronted with the fact that this narrative is simply inadequate to challenge these problems on a socioploitical level, especially given our historical paradigm. Moreover, Im deeply disturbed with the movement to rebrand Christianity as a political tool. I'm also saddened with JP's increasing political dogmatism and alliance with the militant religious conservative crowd. All this to say, I think you're right that both sides of the cultural conversation are insufficient, and while I love the Western cultural tradition, I think it has become psychologically sickened. Perhaps the next step is some kind of synthesis between East and West?

[@Footnotes2Plato]

“Goethean guessing” is a cute shorthand for Peirce’s “abduction”

[@Formscapes]

I still haven't watched the recent stuff you posted about Peirce. No spoilers! lol

[@LibraryoftheUntold]

Algorithm comment insert and Imma pop this puppy on Letz go

[@bretrohde7300]

Nice shout-outs to Jonathan Pageau and Galahad Eridanus there! Looks like you’re familiar with some interesting content creators. Excellent work as always, I look forward to your next video.

[@davidjones8043]

Galahads videos are WILD

[@jamesestrella5911]

How about Meme Analysis?

[@ZoomerLogos]

There is no point commenting on modern political social and moral "culture" because it is liquidating itself at mach 5. This is why people are accelerationists. We are living in the Kali Yuga and its best to get it over with is the idea, purge the chaff from the wheat and then get back to business in BEING rather than this endless unsatisfying stream of BECOMING we are in. Theoretically anyway. Who knows how its all gonna happen.

[@cerveraux]

Kaliyuga ended in 1900

[@ca7582]

Being is becoming

[@SC-gw8np]

Modernity exists purely on the horizontal (material) plane, being pulled in the downward vertical direction by the chaff. Those who can survive its madness must get onto the upward vertical plane (towards logos).

[@liammacneil5672]

@@ca7582jew

[@David.Isaac.147]

Bro did you even watch the video?

[@Joe-qq8ox]

You say everything so well it feels self evident

[@gort0338]

Anyone asking what my view on politics is: It’s this. Thank you Formscapes, you’ve articulated with this video something which has floated around half-formed in my head and I suspect the heads of many others beautifully. Transcendent video.

[@sowercookie]

Yet another banger! It's gonna be a good day as I sit and digest these ideas

[@claironaut]

Radical, dude 🤘

[@joemahma3017]

Thanks, Mr. Rice President. Glad to see you and I have reached similar conclusions. Thank you for your work. You’re beautiful and I look forward to each and every video!

[@Formscapes]

o7

[@charliesteel8750]

You've done it yet again, brilliant. Great to hear an unbiased view on Peterson. You always provide a good balance of analysis and perspective that never seems to go the way of persuasion or direction. Very honorable. Love it, will support ongoing productions 🙏🏻 keep em' coming

[@josephpercy1558]

Firstly, great content on your channel, _Formscapes._ However, I will say that I'm not a fan of the Christian idea of the logos at all. It's a ridiculous caricature of the ancient Hellenic conception which is so much more expansive and dynamic. Of the surviving polytheist literature, there is indeed some criticism coming from certain polytheist philosophers on exactly this kind of troubling notion. Plotinus comes to mind here when he writes against certain Gnostics who tended to gravitate in the contraction of the divine. And that was indeed the general trend in the late antique world, toward a solar monotheism, even amongst professing 'pagans.' I also think it's highly myopic to focus almost solely on Byzantine _theosis,_ as if there was/is no other model of posthuman transformation that existed in late antiquity before or during the advent of Christianity. See Litwa, _Posthuman Transformation in Ancient Mediterranean Thought: Becoming Angels and Demons_ for an accessible read on further details. I also find it moderately problematic to posit that there was a general pattern of "solar vs. lunar" archetypal modalities present in the collective awareness of certain ancient peoples. For example, it is not the case that the ancient Homeric Greeks were "lunar" and/or collectivist in the particular ethos of their ancestor cults of the dead. These early Greeks were from the beginning highly susceptible in turning away from the ancient traditions of their forefathers. A few examples should suffice as I pull from Edward Butlers' _The Way of Being: Polytheism and the Western Knowledge System,_ from his Introduction: [ _"Sthenelos, one of the heroes from Homer's Iliad, famously proclaims 'we declare ourselves to be better men by far than our fathers' (4.405), a sentiment that already in antiquity was understood in a sense of a broad sentiment against tradition in favor of individual achievement and progress, especially in the arts and crafts. Galen, the great physician, in the 2nd c. CE, quotes this passage to urge his readers to "proceed to the practice of Art" in order to live up to it ( Galen, Protrepticus 7 ). There is, indeed, nothing that the Western tradition prides itself upon more than the notion that its ideology has over the course of its history become uniquely attuned to foster progress, especially in science and technology, but also in the liberation of the potential of the individual, particularly, where necessary, through the overturning of tradition itself. These values are held in common, for the most part, even across the otherwise powerful political divides in Western society, though the proposals for how to implement them differ widely between the Left and the Right. The West thus presents a paradox of a tradition fundamentally opposed to tradition, one which has selected within itself and valorized precisely those elements tending in this direction."_ ] [ _"Iamblichus, a philosopher writing one thousand years after Homer, characterizes the Greeks in general in this fashion: 'The Hellenes are experimental by nature, and eagerly propelled in all directions, having no proper ballast in them; and they preserve nothing which they have received from anyone else, but even this they promptly abandon and change it all," ( De mysteriis, VII. 5, trans. Dillon, Clarke & Hershbell ). And yet, Iamblichus is himself a Syrian, writing in Greek, in the guise of an Egyptian priest, albeit one steeped in Platonic philosophy. There could be no better example of the international or cosmopolitan character of Hellenic civilization by his day, in the 4th century CE, which was surely not unrelated to the very experimentalism and love of innovation that he is criticizing. This is not to say that contrary values have not also always had their place in 'Western' thought. Hesiod, for example, not only regards Homer's princes as a generation inferior to those who came before, but also regards their descendants as inferior to them. But the notion of a decline from a golden age has in the West played its most powerful role in setting up the expectation of its return at the end of history, first in Christian eschatology, but then in the secularized notion of an eschaton coming about entirely through human effort and social transformation."_ ] I'll end there with that excerpt from his book, and briefly note that I find it also problematic to hang your laurels on a particular mystical strain of Eastern Christianity, in particular that which tends to spiritualize a resurrected Christ. Why? Because the Christian churches are adamant, not merely as a rule, but as a dogma, that Jesus _empirically_ rose from the dead, as a singular individual in history. This claim is supposed to be justified from a hard empirical stance. However, as modern scholarship generally concurs, on _empirical_ registers we cannot verify that this happened historically. For the ancients, the high standards for credibility were much lower, as an empiricist epistemology didn't even register in their minds. Again, very problematic because current Christian dogma for the resurrection of Jesus is highly anachronistic with the conscious awareness of ancient Christians who seemed to rely much more on certain literary methods and models to explicate 'proofs' through particularly useful psychological exploits laden within the text with which the average reader was expected to participate. See Millers' _Resurrection and Reception in Early Christianity_ if this interests you for more detail. Hey, thanks for reading this far! 👍

[@ca7582]

I've recently been listening to Charles Upton and his videos about Renè Guenon, so this video seems highly synchronous. Also, the new developments with RFK Jr., his endorsement of Trump and his speeches make me feel weird. Like, there's a politician who does not assume I am dunce, has a spiritual sensibility and is concerned about stopping neoliberal/corporate/technocratic/cyberpunk monopoly while the DNC is like blatantly ridiculous... I don't know where's the catch. I even get a little paranoid-nutty-conspiranoid because it seems almost on purpose. Watching the pendular movements of the times, I have a feeling of watching a highly scripted play. Anyways, amazing essay as always

[@jupiterregional8326]

I'm thinking a lot about resisting flattery lately

[@ca7582]

​@@jupiterregional8326 what do you mean by that?

[@jupiterregional8326]

@ca7582 flattery as an audience member. Like being able to spot the twists or just sense them ahead of most ppl. Rfk is Hollywood. Asi was jfk. And jfk jr. Its power only goes away when you away, and stay looking TOWARD your own vision. Sometimes when I am not sure, I just ask my gut true or false questions and listen. One day (it's been a minute) I prompted my gut: " These people (the politicians, elite etc, right or left) CARE about life as an earthling for other earthlings in the same way I do?" F. FALSE. Try it out!

[@joshuafernandes6684]

This is one of your best vídeos still, but i think it will become one of the most misinterpred by both sites of the political spectrum... Also, as a protestant (Presbytherian) Brazilian Christian who is really intrested of learning the pros and cons of various Christian traditions, i tought your analysis of the inexistent "Golden times before X" on point.

[@andrescamilocastrofraile7288]

Precious To have this To be able to hear this, and grow meanwhile

[@denniszaychik8625]

The title is just pure gold. Unfortunately many people don't see the issue and label you as an enemy if you do. Also it is kind of sad that the majority focuses on demonizing and declaring war on the material realm instead of properly integrating it into themselves or rather finding a way in which their natural instincts and a desire for something higher can work together.

[@Professor_Vince]

Finally Kehlan is adressing this. Lately I get this almost lovecraftian horror feeling like the world is slowly descending into madness and no one is talking about it and just puts up a good act

[@Nature_Consciousness]

It is very rapidly descending into madness, every major event only accelerates it even further.

[@Professor_Vince]

@@Nature_Consciousness Oh that's just adorable. They nuked my reply. What beautifull fkn people.

[@ZoomerLogos]

Guenon turned to Sufism, the esoteric part of Islam. He didn't 'reject' Christianity, he was a spiritual seeker who recognised that there was no esoteric 'path' to join and progress spiritually upon within Christianity, while Islam did. Also, you characterise Evola and Guenon quite incorrectly and betray that you haven't read them. Neither of them cared about the material world, they proposed no solutions, only diagnoses and believed we are in the Kali Yuga or Iron Age. Evola only proposed "riding the tiger" until it is exhausted enough for you to take control. Traditionalism is about the loss of the spiritual centre of humanity (priest-kings like Melchizedek or the Egyptian pharaohs). It is a top down system, spirit - soul - matter. The higher orders the lower. The reason modernity is lost is the lack of a centring higher order and the rule of the masses who no longer submit to higher spiritual authorities, they only submit to their own egos. Anyway great video.

[@Formscapes]

I'm aware that Evola and Guenon did not believe in a "solution" in the sense that the Kali Yuga could be reversed, but it is certainly the case that they imply that the best way to deal with the present circumstances for individuals - and presumably, individual communities, by extension - would be to resist the transformations which are underway by turning away from modernity and towards tradition. As the title implies, I'm not even necessarily saying that this is "wrong", per se, but that it is insufficient.

[@ZoomerLogos]

​@@Formscapes Yeah, they advise to resist in the spiritual dimension. Simply let things pass, do not get involved, and focus on elevating your own soul to the Divine. Evola characterises it as being completely free from fear desire and attachment a la the Buddha, as he saw this as the most noble/aryan/aristocratic way of existence. Total self sufficiency and self-reliance through the spirit. Which is basically the only thing any individual can do to truly help better the world anyway. Have a good day brother.

[@egonomics352]

Meanwhile Orthodox Christianity and Hesychasm Idk, Guenon just got caught up too much into his metaphysics

[@Nature_Consciousness]

We dont need authority and submission to higher imperatives, this only creates a tension in our consciousness which alienates us and dont solve the problem. We actually need to develop a culture where values our own intimate moral intuitions, about connection, purpose, contemplation and detachment. This can only be done harmoniously, not by hierarchical power but by mutual cooperation, where they are done for the own intrinsic will instead of shutting up and obeying the law.

[@TheGr8GamesReporter]

I wish I saw a way I couild just walk around the world and just do my thing y'know, the idea that the internet "expanded" our horizons is a cruel illusion, everything seems close yet too far. Always felt like I'd rather just be a walking vagabond rather than any other thing in the rat race, but how? I was worried that I didn't have a job, and now I do and don't look forward to it.

[@Formscapes]

I've known people who have literally sold their homes, quit their jobs and just hit the road, playing guitar outside of restaurants to pay for gas and car insurance, or literally just hopping trains with a backpack. The thing is you kinda gotta know people who live like that so that they can teach you how to do it, but it is doable. Not for the feint of heart, to be sure, but doable. It requires a very specific mentality - one where the constant flux of a life like that just doesn't stress you out anymore. The reality, however, is that most people who live like that aren't doing it because they are enlightened reincarnations of Diogenes; they need their coping mechanisms in order to live like that, and by coping mechanisms, I mean drugs. Hard drugs. Wouldn't recommend it tbh.

[@TheGr8GamesReporter]

@@Formscapes I can see that, ain't all roses, a specific life for specific people. The system and its weight is just so psychologically overwhelming, as much as I hate it, the answer appears not to be a cabin in the woods and solitude.

[@gdl9362]

There's a deep truth in pessimism. Life is one stubborn bitch.

[@notloki3377]

a few days ago i heard an ex professor of french existentialism talking about how he used to teach foucalt... apparently how it's typically taught is by using foucalt's deconstruction tools on old passe kitsch from the 1950s. how boring. this guy had the genius idea of having his students apply foucalt to contemporary things, like vogue magazie and the rolling stones. apparently a lot of the students had hesitation and fear about deconstructing the current power system, because they intuitively understood they were doing something a little bit unsafe. deconstructing cultures that have already left us is so simple, so easy.

[@wolskt]

I appreciate the effort

[@joelvinsant1189]

I've gotten so much out of this... Just want to give support however I can 🙂

[@Formscapes]

Thank you!

[@Silverhailo21]

Excellent. I felt quite strongly that idealism and futurism needs to be embraced traditionalists who refuse power based on an anti-technological bias or a kind of primitivism are denying the spirit of conquest, they're denying the spirit of curiosity and exploration. Yes tradition is not the worship of ashes but the preservation of fire, and shall we not then direct the fire? What prevents us now from grasping the lightning? Who shall stay our hand when we like harness the Sun?

[@wizkidgamer9942]

As someone who grew up Catholic, but was one of the rare few bledded with parents who both understood their faith and were not tyrannical about it it's delighted me to watch this explosion pf consciousness unfold. first with Jordan Peterson, who exposed me and so many of my cohort to Jung. Then with creators like Max Derrat and Meme Analysis, who expounded on those ideas and exposed me to things like alchemy and other forms of esotericism for the first time, and finally discovering you and Galahad Eridanus within mere days of one another and having my own understanding fundamentally deepened and altered for the better. My journey has been a long one, and I'm excited to see where it may lead from here, at the simultaneous dawning of the Age of Aquarius and the Rise of Integral Consciousness. With Constellation to guide us, perhaps we may just yet turn the tables on all the horrors arrayed against us and move into an era of peace and meaningful living.

[@j3fr0uk]

Funny you say that at the start, I remember before that time-ish, woke meant somethin different.. Top vid as always...

[@jarretl1370]

Good shit mr scapes a bravura performance once again

[@jackalope2302]

23:49 "...who he is..." I used to practice a form of radical selflessness (no self image, no self hate or self love. Self is a lie preventing Oneness.), so I don't know what anyone means when they say Self anymore.

[@mikejames-io7rm]

thank you. maybe love is real

[@Viz-Jaqtaar]

Hold up, grabbing my ancestor's skull cup.

[@keg7991]

theres bit of a yin/yang system in politics between the left and right, i'd argue the right is more constructionalist, building up traditions and layering atop eachother (e.g england with it's laws that date back hundreds of years) and the left is more deconstructive, taking apart traditions and reformatting them (e.g french / american revolution etc) there's bit of a fundamental issue that arises when either becomes so conceited as to think they should do away with the other. Much like how a pencil benefits from having a rubber and a rubber benefits from having a pencil.

[@apokalupsishistoria]

Before Goethe’s Faust, it was Christopher Marlowe’s “Doctor Faustus” - in the same time period Shakespeare is dropping to give us “modern” English. Such overlap between psychosociology and language.

[@ouroborosnexus]

Damn it man… this messed me up. I hate/love it. Growth opportunity. I’ve been working to similar outcomes/ideas but I have questions/concerns. I need to write some thoughts about it but would prob be best in the discord. Good work man.

[@yecksd]

52:18 im unfinished with the video so ill delete if this question is answered by the video when you speak of gnosis, youre speaking of personal and actual interaction with the supernatural and transcendant, as opposed to the mere "symbolic" life that one may see in the majority of Christian traditions. does this account for Hesychia and the mystic traditons of Orthodox Christianity? from all ive been told, as an Orthodox convert, the goal of Orthodoxy is to experience the Divine in the present, which is ultimately what Theosis is. i forget who said this, but ive seen the concept of 3 "levels" of theosis - Purification (kenosis, self-emptying usually by fasting + prayer + vigil + participation in ritual) - Theoria, which is the vision of God. described literally as a vision, usually of the Divine Light of God or some other miraculous experience which the soul undoubtedly recognized as her Lord - Theosis, which i cannot speak of because i cannot understand such a thing outside of metaphors and similes. these seem to be exactly what youre using the word "gnosis" to describe. To my understanding, gnosticism is declared a heresy because the God that historic gnostic groups worshipped was not the Christ that the Christian Mystics knew as one would know a friend. they know Him by direct experience, and not mere speculation. at least, this is so in Orthodoxy. i cannot speak of other traditions. edit: i forgot to mention that modern Orthodox Saints, such as St Sophrony of Essex, use the word Gnosis in a way that i describe, and i believe you yourself are alluding to. the Gnosis of God Himself, and not the "hidden" gnosis of the cults.

[@StephenS-2024]

Excellent! Ty!

[@dylangammons6596]

"one must achieve gnosis to achieve theosis" THIS. I have this idea that each human being is anchored firmly to this physical plane by an "unredeemed" inner spectre. We each have a demon that must be addressed before the flashing sword will relent and allow us reentry into the garden. To behold your own "personified shadow archetype" is to meet it face to face. Whatever power, trait, or vice it might facilitate is as much a part of us as it is the entity, and so blaming and fighting it is to be in a double bind, as is seeking to escape our current state. The great task we are here to complete is not to pretend we have no demon, but to keep the sword sheathed precisely up until it's unsheathing is an act of redemption, both of you and the power you are burdened with. Christ walked out to his detainment with 2 swords that he stated a need for. Simon Peter used one to cut the ear off of a priest's slave. I reason that the other was used by Jesus to heal what was removed. All things have their proper use, and the devil is in the details. Learning this and tending to the development of it's proper use is the cross we must bear.

[@TheSpinachInfluenza]

Beautiful

[@davieboy3814]

Nostalgia is a comforting drug, but we can’t build a new world by repeating the old.

[@thieph]

Nostalgia exists for a reason, and not all things new has necessary value just because they are new, we still breathe oxygen as our ancestors, lol.

[@thieph]

This is a materlaistic view of progressive determinism in which we are just objects which participate in this world just passively.

[@davieboy3814]

@@thieph Fair point. What if I said a new age or a new philosophy instead of new world? I think eventually things run their course. I think you achieve more by starting something new than by continually doing the same thing.

[@johnsalchichon5956]

Ascribing to particular forms of political organization is nothing more than flavor autism. Whatever leads to the most realized, healthy and capable humans beings is what I believe in.

[@2013Arcturus]

I voted Democrat through Obama, but now I'd be considered far, far right, and very few of my beliefs have changed in that time lmao.

[@Formscapes]

Yeah I think it's so funny that I get called a "Nazi" on a regular basis now, and I still basically have the exact same opinions that made me firmly within the left not even ten years ago lol

[@ouroborosnexus]

@@FormscapesI get it from both sides. I’d consider myself socially slightly left, economically-very left. Like… so much so that it’s transcendent, post/anti market. Maybe some of trad stuff and desire to return to smaller group arrangements reflects similar if not the same ideas. That’s why I feel like the left/right dichotomy is very limiting and misleading even when it comes to capturing who we are, as well as some of these deep tendencies and desires we all seem to share.

[@ouroborosnexus]

@@Formscapesbut yes most leftists feel trad = fascism, some trad content even outright promoting Nazi propaganda, etc.

[@gdl9362]

​@@FormscapesWhat's funny is that I've heard some people on the internet claim that the far right today is the same as the old far left.

[@Slawa_Saporogez]

​@@Formscapes It's because discourse has changed. Previously you had two sides arguing about internal politics with each side having some solution to problems. Today both sides are arguing, whether something is a problem and they never come to any fixes. Both sides agree that the problems exist and don't want to fix them. It is mostly due to loud dooming and negative responses on social media being taken with a straight face. For instance a bridge project encountered some difficulties along the way, problems are reported, then professionals argue how to fix these difficulties, while users of social media already announced it to be a failure, thus by the time that bridge project overcomes all difficulties people on social media just see it as a waste of money and government doesn't subsidise any further development of a future road network needed for that area. And people on social media then doom even more about the bad state of their district. Both sides protest each other on that same social media on every step of this operation btw. It is a self inflicting harm through unnecessary micromanagement.

[@AquariusGate]

1:00:26 yes, I think within consciousness we have our own that works in our mythology. The consciousness is simultaneously entrained into human consciousness, which itself is a fractal of organic consciousness, a fractal of cosmic consciousness. The myths we make are scaffolds to the divine. The true scaddold rests between self and imagination.

[@jeremydowney9650]

I was formed by the pre-Peterson rad trad movement (Doug Wilson-type classical Christian education-I actually went to Wilson's college and knew him personally), and my inevitable disillusionment with the internal contradictions of that project has made me completely allergic to Peterson/Barron/Pageau, etc. My experiences in the workplace moved me pretty strongly towards Marxism, though I never reacted into atheism or materialism, but instead into learning about Christian forms of anarcho-communism. I sense, as I think you would agree, that a non-hierarchical, communistic society can only arise in communal orientation and commitment to the Divine. I've become interested in Quaker spirituality and social organization as a possible vanguard of the sort of "gnostic," Christic anarcho-communism that the Gospel seems to demand. I wonder if you have researched Quakerism and other, similar "utopian" Christian movements?

[@Formscapes]

Tolstoy's Christian Anarchism is worth taking very seriously. Though I find his die-hard pacifism to be questionable.

[@jeremydowney9650]

@@Formscapes What I really like about Quaker social formation is its centeredness in mystical practice.

[@Formscapes]

@@mazolab "Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." Let's just say that's bit debatable

[@cerveraux]

It's really hard not to fall in the in the dual western/arimahnic eastern/luciferic perspective. The s11 events, as you point are, in many ways, the event that point a undergoing process of period "arimahnic" dominion. But the way in that today they manifest is in a way, so artistically in it's disguise.

[@Formscapes]

Looking to China and India, it would seem that the Ahrimanic is dominant across the board, currently. You can see the Luciferic in things like transhumanism and new-age / UFO-cult stuff but I think we are still waiting for the Luciferic to truly make a resurgence on the same scale that was seen in the 1960s (riding on the coat-tails of the Hippie movement ofc - this time it'll be riding on the coat-tails of Elon Musk's messianic delusions, if I had to guess)

[@cerveraux]

@@Formscapes in the world of today to be able to just perceive the delicate interplay between those omniscient forces is a hard task of the present evolutionary framework (Bewußtsein Seele). Of course one can pinpoint certain cultural movement regard as luciferic or arihmanic in nature but I think nowadays it's far more complex -as I certainly hear you talk about it in other video- interplay/ labile equilibrium. The mental framework needed just to be able to perceive is hard to get in the culture, a a matter of fact, in a way, as we think about the western social contract and the resultant culture, is the more radical thing one can do now, you will become the enemy.

[@n0vitski]

Oh damn, good morning!

[@FuelAirSparkTime]

You are earning yourself quite a following with all this smart guy talk.

[@Formscapes]

Me do big word real good

[@AquariusGate]

1:15:46 thats xactly the misyake i feel Jung made. I used his work for many years so hes like an eccentric uncle to me. In my own individuation im led to shed all material/ego awareness. Learning only comes through us, the only important aspect of our lives is divine connections, and mysteries. All the rest is surface stuff and depth we bless it in. We're all of the archetypes, maybe all at once...in the quirks and turns of expression keeping dreams alive. Religion can become a mental exercise and not a felt, shared sense. Information doesnt belong to us, it all makes a cosmic sense first, then earthy. Consciousness is a growing intimacy, in to who we can be and from ancestry, past traumas and blessings.

[@guilhermeogando5955]

This video is amazing. i was really waiting for you to talk about the solar/lunar west/east dichotomy. it is one of your most fascinating ideas. I fail to comprehend how Christianity affirms this world through the coming and death of Christ. The ultimate goal of Christian doctrine is heaven, a life more Real than this one, achieved by denying oneself pleasures and obeying God above all else. How can this be seen as life-affirming or solar, in the sense of a heroic individual journey? Many Christians often use the phrase 'deny yourself in the face of God.' This doesn't seem particularly affirming of an individual spirit to me. but i might just be stupid, i would love if you could help me understand though. I also found it pretty interesting your mentioning of jordan peterson, i was expecting that you would shit on him but instead you gave a really nuanced and smart analysis, even though i don't know if i agree completly. Great video as always!

[@ouroborosnexus]

Sorry, got excited about this. Let me stop with the play by play. I'll listen to the whole thing. 😅

[@marcschaeffer1584]

In the western (roman) church, this is all decently true. Christianity is however east and west, and the concept of the trinity is the key to the mediation between unity and multiplicity.

[@nonordinaryreality2686]

Brilliant analysis as always. Do you see a rising gnostic influence too? With characters like Dr Hillman potentially shaking the west to its core?

[@ouroborosnexus]

The trad critique of modernity is great, not so sure about the cultural conservatism, Nietzschean desire to reinstate pre-modern Homeric virtues and the emphasis on the “might makes right” stuff. All about holism and systems thinking, but that seems like a kind of regression, no?

[@ouroborosnexus]

I could entertain the idea of regressing to restructure without going down the atomistic/individualistic rabbit hole, but maybe without throwing the baby out with the bathwater (again), and is that even feasible?

[@ouroborosnexus]

@toppedtop5787 I’m with you. I do get it, from the intergralist perspective though-eg the spiral dynamics idea that we have to pass through these developmental phases, and they kind of act as a foundation for the next. Is touching on a similar idea with the “deficient” mode of the mental structure coming detached from the mythical and magical structures-at least in its own conception of itself. You know, how it rejects mysticism, emotion etc. In the spiral dynamics conversation, the big perspective shift comes when realizing that all of these structures/developmental phases are foundational, and then we start to work of reintegrating the best of them, while remembering the “deficient” so as not to repeat them. In that sense, a big part of the postmodernist movement, not only rejects and resents modernity but traditionalism as well. The focus on egoism/individualism in Modder is unhinged without the foundation of traditionalism, so I can see how the advocacy from @formscapes makes sense to the integral project. Regardless of the fact that he doesn’t seem much to care for/incorporate some of the other contemporary stuff like spiral dynamics, developmentalism, or integral politics - but I respect it. Good to get a perspective that’s not so closely related to those things. I also feel like none of us really “disagree” per se, about the overall character of ideological/worldview/consciousness evolution. There might be details to work out amongst ourselves, but it’s more accurate to say our differences are in the perspectives and emphases we’re bringing to the table, reminding each other not to forget about this or that piece of the puzzle. 🧩

[@ouroborosnexus]

​@toppedtop5787 Same! Thanks for the reply, and for trying to understand my ramblings. We worked hard to build all this up! Running headlong into TRAD runs the same risk as running headlong into postmodernism (i.e., antimodernism). The Integral Politics movement at large gives some credit, and even necessity, to the traditionalist value system, but generally considers it foundational to modernism and, by proxy, to postmodernism and doesn't consider any of these value systems to be necessarily opposed to one another. However, they tend to pit themselves against one another as if they were. This is merely a lack of perspective. It aligns very well with Jean Gebser's ideas on the mental and integral structure, the emergent integral being an effort to synthesize all of the past structures and reclaim these abandoned babies.

[@Joe-sg9ll]

Fascinating

[@cochlea2719]

4:50 "Dracula: Nobody has rights, Zoe. Man, woman or monster, no one, no one! It's just a deluded fantasy". "Dr. Helsing: Or civilization, as we like to call it" - Dracula, 2024 Social contract, human rights, inventions of modernity, that's what they are, yes, but not fantasies, not delusions, they're inventions. The fundamental delusion is in the belief of a sacred order or cosmic law out of which human laws can be extrapolated and imposed by those with "divine right". All forms of order spawn from chaos; all good is relative, only evil is absolute

[@thieph]

I don t believe in human rights, I am ahomorightist(atheist for liberalism) lol

[@thieph]

I hope a superpower won't teach me about democracy dogmatically to belive in their faith

[@ouroborosnexus]

You finally hit on politics - this is my jam

[@C.M.Sivelle]

This is perfect

[@SubaCenter]

I think jordan petersons ideas and discussions are so consistently shallow; i think a better example personally of what you suggest peterson accomplished would be Aleister Crowley or even HP Blavatsky. Peterson is so inadequate in that sense to me

[@Formscapes]

Yeah but I'm referring specifically to the resurgence of spiritual interest which occurred **after** the New Atheism movement.

[@supermattman400]

As much as I disagree with this ideology, it's really well put together and justified by you. It's surprising how much of this I agree with as a communist with an economics degree. The fundimentally difference is that I feel this modernity is directly related to the profit incentive of capitalism and therefore we should reject the idea of profit eventually-- especially if it eventually leads to all jobs being replaced by AI on the current path. Overall though, this is the most impressive argument for rad trad I've ever heard.

[@stormthecat7395]

In Orthodox view, Biblical events are both literal and allegorical at the same time. For example the six day creation in Genesis is a literal, historical account of what happened while also having allegorical meaning at the same time. Orthodox priests such as Saint John of Kronstadt and Fr. Seraphim Rose and many others wrote against the theory of evolution.

[@miguelatkinson]

Yeah I can see alot of cognitive dissonance arising from that

[@thieph]

Protestantism is not orthodox by defition.

[@stormthecat7395]

@@thieph I was talking about Orthodox priests such as Saint John of Kronstadt who called evolution a lie.

[@thieph]

@@stormthecat7395 saints are not infaillable.

[@guilhermemeier3015]

Very good video. I wish you and Jonathan Pageau have a talk one day.

[@WilcoxA]

Would you consider streaming with Academic Agent?

[@Formscapes]

I feel like this video was a critique of thinkers specifically like Academic Agent, but I'm always down for a chat with anybody.

[@ratthechicken]

Have you tried to have a stream with Jason Jorjani? I'd be pretty damn excited if I saw that.

[@Formscapes]

I've never spoken to him but I'd be willing to do so. I'm planning on doing a very detailed criticism of his philosophy in the near future so hopefully he wont take that too personally lol

[@ratthechicken]

@@Formscapes Looking forward to it.

[@SubaCenter]

I feel like ive always intuited the exact opposite of this « rad trad « idea. Ive always interpreted the universe to be generative and things like christendom as the inverted perverse reflection of what will harmonize over time and experience. I think we have to ability to understand god in the most whole sense we ever have and the christian god is the exact antithesis to the infinitely experiencing self that we all share

[@godlox5805]

No intro? 😢

[@Formscapes]

This is just a one off thing to give yall something to chew on until the next video essay is done

[@godlox5805]

@@Formscapes I’m just giving you crap. I love your videos no matter what.

[@thesartoklynv6214]

Zingers within zingers within a total zinger. Bravo

[@liberatedcollective2124]

Lead into Gold never had to do with the physical Gold. Once you learn the Law of the Garden, you can turn lead into Gold. But more so you can overcome the flood. Gain that eternal life. Hint: It has to do with pressure. Pressure is KING.

[@york_zacharias1996]

Bravo 💟

[@TheXrythmicXtongue]

Radical Traditionalism is definitely an oxymoron lol

[@thieph]

Exactly

[@tourist1313]

57:47 bookmark for later

[@tomfoolery5844]

1:02:52-1:14:10 all of this isn’t talked about enough, if at all.

[@thomasvnl01]

Any chance you could publish these as text? Not everyone finds it easy to fully understand your ideas and grasp what you are saying by listening.

[@Formscapes]

Shoot me an email if you want a script. I'll have them all on the website eventually

[@Green-Bean1]

@@FormscapesI’m in a similar boat but there is just something about hearing the amalgamation of these ideas and the connections YOU are making; coming from YOU. I’d love the text to allow me to ponder over the same idea you would go over in a short amount of time in a video.

[@jSpe4ks]

do u script out your entire videos? curious of ur process

[@Formscapes]

Yes

[@MrDbruceh]

Amen

[@ka_okai9]

18:50 yes, zombies . its a dead inside society show

[@SubaCenter]

Generally i see Christianity as a cosmology deliberately seperates selves from the will of god, implicating the will of god and the will of the self ARE seperate. Implying ones will must align with « god » while in truth i see it to be a balancing act. Gods will does not crystallize and meets the collective will in the middle by nature and the selves will commands gods will. Social order is / would be upheld thru humanitarian empathy for shared self

[@kuningaskolassas4720]

Not sure how much I agree with your views, but they're consistently interesting, and you're a very compelling thinker.

[@carloscarlos5633]

It really ain’t is complicated as all that. we are the only handful of generations to largely fail to consider/breed out a spiritual world view. We have confused our arrogance of superiority. I would adjure all here to go with Dostoyevskys world view after more years and wisdom were added to his life “I’d rather be inside Christ than without.”

[@crazy.panda12]

What I question is why did most of the world adopt a god of the desert as their god?

[@Formscapes]

Because in the desert there is nothing to satiate bodily desires. There is only the Sun - only the celestial. A liminal realm which is always on the cusp of life and death.

[@malamstafakhoshnaw6992]

As a Kurd of Zoroastrian origins, which pioneered monotheism which led to the beautiful and peaceful Judeo-Christian civilization, and formerly being in counter-terrorism, i have been a President Trump supporter since 2015.

[@darkflow7773]

Peaceful Abrahamic religions? Are you serious? I respectfully disagree. Also very rediculous that as a Kurd of middle eastern background you don’t understand the threat trump is to your very existence.

[@malamstafakhoshnaw6992]

Covid proved globalization is unrealistic and inefficient. Alternatively, a modern humanistic take on nationalism would better serve all.

[@josephpercy1558]

@@malamstafakhoshnaw6992 Trump is the epitome of classical American capitalism. This is the America that he wants to "make great again."

[@cochlea2719]

I like that, beginning with redefining the concept of nation as something less culturally and intellectually restraining. Maybe, a nationality of the spirit rather than of the blood

[@malamstafakhoshnaw6992]

@@cochlea2719 thank you for your spot on insight! What you remarked deserves a much deeper dive.

[@GnosticLucifer]

You should read the Gītā, humanity peaked with Gītā frfr Krishna quite explicitly tells Arjun to go against social order and kill his family members because they were against the cosmic order Buddha as well left his wife and children for which a surprising ammount of people still condemn him. There are various instances of morality going against social norms since axial age, some put the beginning of which as 800bce just to include Vedanta Also you can look into what acharya prashant is doing, not quite as flashy as cases Peterson is going through but still quite outspoken

[@Photomonon]

8:00 - 10:00; precisely

[@itsallminor6133]

Interesting

[@PravdaSeed.96]

🏳️ Thanks 🏳️ 🤍 ☸ ☯ ☸ 🤍 Merit☯cracy Confucianism Marxism 🌍🐉🇨🇳🐉🌎 Wish 🧞i Was Chinese. 💚

[@o.karaca8335]

Ok. I generally don't consider myself a moron. After all I have a PhD (in engineering). But watching your content I am always lost and feel kind of stupid for not being able to follow you. I wonder if it is the language, since English is not my main language... but then again I mainly and with ease read books in English (because most literature I am interested in is from native English speakers) about topics related to your content. But your channel overpowers me intellectually and I find this a pity because I think it is relevant for me.

[@Formscapes]

It might just be a matter of it being audio instead of words on a page. I literally cannot listen to audiobooks bc I have to have the words in front of me. If you want a script to read just email me and I'll send it to you.

[@o.karaca8335]

Actually that is a good point, didn't think of that option. Thanks for your feedback and offer, will make use of it

[@Iron_Wyvern]

Can a pagan be a radical traditionalist?

[@Formscapes]

The only classes available to Neopagans are Radtrad and Wook. I wouldn't recommend either tbh, though Wooks do get a plus 2 on endurance checks if they use the Whippits consumable.

[@Charlie-Em]

That Nietzsche painting is so unfortunate.

[@niccolop.carlyle4621]

45:00: Various "gnostic" sects, but not gnosis as such, were declared to be heretical. Church fathers such as Irenaeus (in his _Against Heresies_) repeatedly used the phrase "so-called gnostics" to refer to those he was criticizing, implying they did not have the gnosis they claimed to have. To this day, the Eastern Orthodox Church holds that a legitimate form of gnosis can be attained through its "Hesychastic" monastic cultivation of purifying oneself to be able to see (within one's present life) the "Uncreated Light" of God.

[@zztopz7090]

1:14:00 As soon as you mentioned a figure that came to challenge atheistic ideology, I immeadiately thought of Jordan Peterson, and yes, rolled my eyes. Ill give him his due, he was a wave breaker of atheistic nihilism, which itself had become as dogmatic as the Christian right. It was no longer intellectual, but Im at least seeing better formed arguments on both sides. But he loves to squeeze historical realities to fit his theories. Surely, Nazism was the resentful ideology. I see the October revolution as no different than the French or American overthrow of the monarchy. Yes, Communism was secular and materialistic, yet in many way idealistic, as depicted in art. It was very much oriented to the sun, or the stars. Secularism is not necessarily anti-religious, but that was a reaction to the overreach of the church. Venezuelan president is Christian in fact. The success of Marxism is to provide the basic necessities for all, but it doesnt have a limit on growth and success. Just look at China and how many billionaires and millionaires they have. At the same time, wealth does not come at the expense of others. China has recently eradicated poverty. I sensed that Jordan was a Nietsche guy, and so doesnt understand Jesus Christ. I believe he is more Old Testament.

[@Formscapes]

Yes, Peterson's God is still the Jovian sky-father deity of growth, expansion and abundance. Which is all well and good so far as that goes, but he absolutely does not understand Christianity.

[@kuningaskolassas4720]

Your analysis of new atheism was excellent. I would be interested to hear what you make of Anthony Flew's conversion. I know most new atheists have handwaived it away as merely a byproduct of his advanced age and neurodegeneration, but that always seemed lazy to me. Also: I disagree with your choice of J. Peterson as the figure behind the emergence of a new esoteric spirituality. Scholars such as James Hillman, Wouter Hanegraaf, John Hollis, Slavoj Zizek, Keith Ward, Edward Butler, Christopher Isham, Justin Sledge, Nicholas Rescher, Lawrence Principe, and even David Lynch in a way, planted the seeds for it in a more logically rigorous and more profound manner than Peterson. I do also have an intense dislike for his views regarding women and sexual minorities. While these figures themselves (save, perhaps, for Zizek) have not inserted themselves into pop culture like Peterson, the ideas they put forth are more compelling. I would argue that is a superior method for this type of process, as it avoids associating the concepts and ideas we want to advocate for with a figure most people have a strong negative reaction to, less well known scholars allow the ideas themselves to take center stage, rather than the one talking about them.

[@Formscapes]

There are plenty of deeper thinkers out there than Peterson when it comes to spiritualistic topics, but he was pretty much single-handedly responsible for the resurgence of interest at a pop-cultural level that occurred during the waning of the new atheism movement during the mid 2010s period.

[@SubaCenter]

To me it seems theres no such thing as a Christian by its own logic, due to the intrisic separation it imposes of god and self. There can simply be no connection to God or reverence of God or love for God when god is fundamentally denied in reality. This fictional abstraction of a god that is separate mechanically from any self is functionally the biblical devil or otherwise evil being a trickster that fools the self into submission to the false idol they worship.

[@guilhermeogando5955]

god is NOT entirely separate from humans in cristian tradition. 1- man's intelect is made in god's image, meaning we can arrive at the truth(god) trhough intelect and use of reason. 2- the holy spirit gives it's grace to us humans and moves human reason through grace so that humans can reach god.