Train Simulator 2021: DTG WCML South First look

[@pwhitw]

Glad I watched this - just saved me £25 - cheers

[@NextSound170]

✊🏾🙏🏾

[@johnno1246]

everyone here is just talking about how shit the route is. im sitting here trying to figure out how alan managed to hijack an AI train at birmingham international

[@TheUnknown313]

Wait, yeah! How's that happened then?

[@emjeebutterz4405]

Alan: Talking about how the route doesn't meet what is expected from DTG Me, an Auran Trainz user: *Wait, you can switch trains in TS? There's portals?*

[@malcolmelliott1876]

swapping trains is possible in Free Roam .. will have to go back and see what he;'s running

[@conallplatts5244]

Good point

[@bfootball85]

31:03 that's definitely a disgruntled DTG employee trying to send a message.

[@damianc.0.681]

Yup

[@JayTG123]

** COPIED FROM DTG FORUMS ** We would like to thank players of Train Simulator 2021 who have taken their time to give us comprehensive feedback about their experiences with the game so far. Suffice to say that this feedback has not made for the easiest of reading, and neither should it. The performance of West Coast Main Line falls a long way short of what you should expect and what we intend to deliver. As such we are working on multiple updates to this route to address the criticism it has received. Following investigation overnight we have determined that the current low frame rates experienced by many, if not all, players comes as a result of a couple of areas we have identified in the rolling stock. To that end we will make a priority update in the short term that improves frame rate performance. This should improve frame rates on the WCML South for all players. Supplemental updates will address scenery and other areas that have been observed and reported. To ensure we are tackling as much as possible, and if you would like to help, any further problems you can identify would be appreciated. The first update is being worked on now, and we are targeting within the next week to 10 days. We will follow up on this thread throughout next week to ensure you are kept up to date. We are postponing the stream on Saturday as we do not feel it is appropriate to promote the game while one of its headline components falls short of both your and our expectations. We want to take this opportunity to apologise to players who feel let down by this release. We are reviewing our handling of new releases in light of these problems to ensure this situation is not repeated.

[@brucetharpe762]

Thanks to DTG, I love this route despite its flaws and I am overjoyed it will be fixed!

[@OliversElevators]

So now DTG can’t even finish a new route before it’s released, which is made worse by the fact that you don’t even get it for free if you already bought the game. Honestly this is disappointing.

[@johnking9859]

@@brucetharpe762 yes i agree.its great to have this route.i concider the premier UK route..dtg will im sure address the issues.

[@brushhead]

Hats off to you DTG if this is legit. Your QA needs some review.

[@Daytona2]

@@OliversElevators "you don’t even get it for free if you already bought the game" Eh? DTG don't give routes away for free. You pay for them either individually or in a promotional bundle with the game engine. Every year then game engine is updated for free.

[@hamishweir5631]

DTG have all the potential to produce something amazing. No doubt there are some very talented people in the company. It's frustrating to see what can only be mismanagement every time. Can only assume they are run by the marketing team, not the engineers. Really need some competition in the marketplace. Thanks for the honest video.

[@jamieplaysagamie]

Hold up. Let's just check today isn't April 1st.

[@andrewjg_]

@Kaniz Rimu i know it was released in september you dont need to me

[@planesimple8619]

@Kaniz Rimu muppet

[@rjc0234]

While I personally hate this quote (as it is used too many times in the wrong place) "A delayed game is eventually good, a rushed game is forever bad" *Shigeru Miyamoto*

[@Bartteztheman]

I do like to visit this epic review now and again just to have a good laugh. Nice one Alan

[@alexgg4516]

So I guess it going to be more then 8 weeks to do WCML south and WCML missing link

[@CaledonianCoins]

I know Euston is a brutalist architecture, but damn, that is brutal.

[@Dkentflyer]

i thought this was a bad dream, after watching the stream last night i thought i would watch this just to see if there were any positives at all. Am keeping my fingers crossed that they will patch this but i am not going to hold my breath. I would like to think that this will filter to the top of the DTG tree, can always live in hope. Well done for getting through it Alan, I am going to watch another one of your videos to try and erase the memory.

[@cam43002]

Just remember you payed £25 for this just think about that a second then look at the route and why is it so hard to add a 710 i cant remember the last time we got a new uk train in TS classic

[@hoover3554]

Licensing, the fact it’s brand spanking new and not many people are trained on it, the list goes on.

[@cam43002]

@@hoover3554 the newest uk train that i can think of is a 68 on train sim correct me if im wrong this is pay ware stuff

[@deathbyteacup]

I think the real truth is they've bitten off more then they can chew with this route length given their imposed deadlines.

[@damianc.0.681]

Or it is that someone said ye that will do. I’ll finish that off later. Release day has come. O I forgot about that and that and have a guesse what. I didn’t do anything. Life in dtg

[@brushhead]

Sorry am not spending money on this it's apparently crap. The freeware WCML is considerably better! Sorry Dovetail this isn't good enough by some way.

[@aplaceinthesky82]

what is WCML?

[@brushhead]

@@aplaceinthesky82 west coast main line

[@HarrysTrainsRBX]

What’s crap about it?

[@Bartteztheman]

Purchased this route after the 2nd update, looking and performing much better now.

[@brianwatson1965]

How the hell this got through QC i do not no............

[@TheCatOfWarCSGO]

implying DTG have QC...

[@damianc.0.681]

I don’t they even have qc

[@MannyAntipov]

What does QC stand for?

[@brianwatson1965]

@@MannyAntipov Quality Control.....

[@joshuastanbury3166]

Has it been fixed since then I'm looking for purchase the deluxe pack for TS2021

[@brucetharpe762]

Although this route has a lot of problems, I still love it very much and really hope that DTG releases a patch for it. It deserves to be fixed!

[@damianc.0.681]

*sarcastic* woah best route so far guys the 390 is doooo beautiful. Thx dtg

[@Meehan2023]

i love when Alan said oh come on guys 😠7:57

[@tonywilkins6090]

When I saw some comments on one of DTG's facebook posts for TS21, I thought "oh its the guys that complain about route prices and expect them to be free etc." as they said the WCML route should be lower than £25. After watching your video, now I can see why they said it. Just by looking at it it does look rushed, similar to TSW2. I know it was slightly mentioned in one of TSW2's streams (and then quickly moved onto something else) that COVID-19 has had an impact on the development team. I assume instead of office working, the devs were working from home. But regardless surely the mistakes/issues you raised surely could have be seen during the development stages at least once and wouldn't be affected by covid-19? I'm surprised they didn't delay the release date to fix the issues, or is it a case of DTG being greedy? Hopefully DTG does get a patch to fix it.

[@Vamdua]

i've been saying this for ages. they should've left a release this year and spent a year ironing out the engine.

[@malcolmelliott1876]

working remotely from home is the norm for most software development these days. It would take me 14 hours to commute to the HQ of the software I am currently working on. So blaming C19 is rather lame. model building is often outsourced to far away countries as its cheaper. unfortunatley DTG doesnt seem to have many beta testers. All leaves more room in the car park for bigger cars.

[@chrissharman6735]

I'm so glad I watched this before thinking about purchasing !! What are DTG doing

[@mitchellgiffard1978]

Made a toss up of this 2021 version needs a graphic update.

[@chrissharman6735]

@@mitchellgiffard1978 Totally agree!! The frame rates for starters are shocking

[@SteveS3667]

Thanks for saving me 40 quid Alan... I always look before I leap before leap where DTG are concerned, never forgave them since GEML then the barrage of repeat plastic!!

[@OlanKenny]

Amazed at how dire this looks honestly. Compare this to say Stainmore or Welsh Marches which were built by 3rd parties who theoretically have a lower level of accountability. Those two routes are incredible, this looks like Microsoft Paint

[@OlanKenny]

Look at Port Road, that remains one of my favourite routes today and that's frankly ancient, but it holds up (to me at least).

[@shaggy300875]

stechford looked spot on

[@pjt1974]

I watched the DTG stream before this video, I felt sorry for Sam trying to defend and explain the performance. ECML South is a far more polished route and runs twice as good. Euston reminds me of the original Kuju Paddington model and assets.

[@etsmp_gh]

The performance is fine just stop being rude to us

[@barnyrubble3495]

First time on here after buying the game. Bloke sounds likes he needs a pint of gravy for that chip on his shoulder

[@AlanThomsonsim]

Bless you mate when you have been in train sims for 20+ years it’s ok I will share my gravy

[@Frostie3672]

Are DTG trying to tell us they're not really interested in ts classic anymore, looking at the quality of this route it looks like it lol

[@MadridHopper005]

This is like No Man's Sky all over again

[@andrewwilson5154]

People say its overpriced, I wouldn't use up my SSD space if it was free. I'm not a slave to FPS but when it looks this jerky you lose all immersion, for me its unplayable. I was really looking forward to this and nearly bought it as soon as it appeared, thank goodness I watched Sams DTG stream, I felt embarrassed for him

[@Fan_of_flying]

It’s the new Minecraft railway simulator add on! Absolutely shocking. Very glad I’ve seen this video before purchasing. It’s like DTG were so desperate to release on time that they just rushed the rest of the build and it clearly didn’t go through qc!

[@CyclicPilot]

Wow :o Beside the route, did anyone else notice at 18:50 this is a career scenario which has no warning or penalty for speeding? I thought the old points system was too harsh for speeding, but seems silly to get rid of that altogether...

[@AlanThomsonsim]

I have scoring turned off for career scenarios. The only time I use career scenarios is for first looks at DTG routes or stock I find the system makes you drive in a strange inaccurate way

[@CyclicPilot]

@@AlanThomsonsim Ah, fair!

[@DemonHunter92]

@@AlanThomsonsim Any way you could show us how to turn scoring off? I love running realistic speeds and following signaling rules, which just doesn't work with the career scoring.

[@duncanmoynihan5115]

apparently someone did rugby to london and someone did rugby to brum and theres loads of inconsistencies

[@MorganTheTimeLord]

When will you do a video on the roadmap for tsw2

[@thebrummierailenthusiasts5329]

Good news Alan I’ve got this route too and I’ve pretended to drive to Birmingham new street

[@donmattheo2653]

Thanks for your honest statement, I am shocked too 🙈

[@sargenttom121]

It's like DCS F16 launch I love it

[@galactic_nerd-sk4747]

Honestly, I just don't think they care anymore. TS is done and I think they're now just milking it and they only care about TSW 2.

[@HyperBlueWolf]

Except that TSW2 is a broken rush job, not to mention blatant cash grab aswell. The whole DTG company is a sham

[@AymanTravelTransport]

Yeah I think I'll just get the freeware version of this route thank you; next sale I'll buy the two DLC dependencies for it I don't yet have and I bet you that'll still be cheaper than even the sale price of the DTG version of WCML South!

[@ildefonsopena]

The passenger windows and the front window of the Avanti Class 390 driver's cabin are totally black, they should correct this and make them translucent, hopefully they will do so with a bug fix update.

[@dele2026]

Hi Alan! Great vid dude! Wanted to say cheers for the reskins etc! Keep up the good work! Stay safe ! By the way patch for this route? They're going to need scaffolding for this route!

[@smilerbull]

Honestly, do you really think they will patch this? DTG management treat us with contempt because it’s the only show in town. It makes you realise how spoilt we are with releases from Just Trains recently. I am glad I didn’t buy this route before watching this.

[@andrewwilson5154]

This is beyond patching

[@MrNolz33]

It maybe getting a patch to deal with the frame rate, IMO that will be it, and then the route price will be reduced when sales are low.

[@WolfieRich1]

His smile and optimism: Gone

[@STEPHENRWILLIAMSMUSIC]

I cringed at the Train Simulator channel's video about this, pulling out of Euston looked like they were trying to run the game on an Amiga 500. Cheers Al, spent the 25 notes on beer instead.

[@NextSound170]

A lot of DTGs route builders aren’t really train fans they’re technical people it seems. But they should of done this for TSW2

[@sniffy2236]

the game runs on one core only when you try and put more detail into an old engine it cant handle it most games even in 2010 used at least 4 just makes tsw 2 look so good

[@g7pxk885]

When did doom 1 get trains

[@marty51213]

Allways enjoy watching your content Alan, can't believe the poor performance in the route, TS is so far on now and i think this should have been reviewed before release, would rather wait another month or 2 to get a well done route, keep up the amazing content Alan

[@jameshumble_gtuk6978]

Great video alan

[@LokiAvivson]

hopefully i can get this route one day to see on whether it has the northampton loop or not

[@BritAcrossThePond]

I run full graphics but turned off shadows it’s completely playable now

[@Reef_UK]

I'm guessing the guy who sets the deadlines at DTG is the one who gave you the thumbs down. 😂

[@damianc.0.681]

Yup

[@tomrachellesfirstdance7843]

I don't understand why they released this as part of the deluxe edition they may as well left it to develop as I bet that's it now it will never be fixed. Well Alan I left £40 for this I'm going to spend it on a subscription to your site which I should of done a long time ago. At least I can rely on you guys and just trains to do quality routes

[@sophiaevans9908]

Welcome to Alan is unimpressed simulator...

[@TinTin_57]

All the Pendo screens services read 'VTxxx'. That been missed from the Virgin Trains move or are they really called that?

[@emjeebutterz4405]

This is crazy. I use Auran's Trainz Simulator, and until recently, the graphics weren't good enough to rival TS. Nevertheless, I can tell you that there are countless *freeware* routes which are much better than this.

[@stewartpearson4308]

Thanks for the preview Alan. Just saved me £25. I'll stick with the freeware version which is much better.

[@MontytheHorse]

I was also really looking forward to this route, so I’m very disappointed too. The route screams ‘unfinished’ to me. I don’t blame the people who produced the route, but those who decided to release it before it was ready.

[@ajsgaming83]

ur lucky u got 20fps i got less than that it like took 5 seconds just for 1 second to go on the clock. i got a refund

[@MDHGames]

33:21 Stephen Fry is on the train!!

[@tonyp011]

Hi Alan i was quite shocked and disappointed when i watched the Avanti scenario from Euston to Birmingham, and I've now decided not to pay the £35.99 until DTG have fixed the issues, however ive just been watching other people doing the same route with the same train and they had clear sunny skies and a completed Euston station, do you know why they have a different look to the one you got? and the different version was shown by someone called DRAWYAH and train sim tv who shown them 4 & 5 days ago respectively with the latter showing the game on the 18th sept

[@addams323]

Alan you spadded the platform signal at New S lol. Just wondering if it was worth buying to transplant some of the custom assets to WCMLv5, the station modelling (New St & Euston exempt) is quite nice. Without having bought this, do you think the fps is down to the pendo rather than the route? Or the OHLE, which in Trent Valley brings performance down, but not to this extent.

[@dejavery]

Running a mid range pc and at 1080p, it‘s reasonable at High settings. 20-25fps. But I‘m of the type where I just like to play, so as long as I can complete scenarios I‘m fine with it. Do understand other peoples views though. The DLC that is bothering me the most is Frankfurt Koblenz. Signalling is terrible and often can’t complete it due to AI collisions. DTG have a lot of fixes to do and I doubt we will see them.

[@WillSmith-hb4fe]

I "purchased" cough cough quite a few routes myself between 2014-2016/2017 when I just stopped playing it.. I did buy TS2014.. It was 4.97 on Steam..:-) I did buy the original Railworks @ £24.99 so RS/DTG had my money..

[@AlanThomsonsim]

Hahaha that’s really was a slip up lol 😂 my whole collection is bought and paid for I don’t condone piracy at all but we would all be stupid to think it doesn’t happen I think the last game I had that was a cough cough game was vice city

[@WillSmith-hb4fe]

The Routes I liked,I bought. Back in 2015 there was plenty of errors and updates werent forthcoming. All they seemed bothered about was knocking out DLC and the next years release. Then they started doing other releases like Flight Sim,Fishing Sim so dropped it. To be honest I didnt know this still existed. I thought they had dumped it for TrainSim World. Its like they havent been to Euston as the ramp walkways dont look Good.

[@ETGamer445]

he has the WCML South in his website right?

[@michaelnunnery6394]

Is it at all possible that all of DTG’s Time Money and Effort has gone into other projects and this one slipped through the net

[@kobduncan]

Oh come on.. why don’t you get a new simulator metro Washington DC subway!!’??

[@Speedster-jw7qx]

6:31 DTG WHAT IS THIS

[@Ranalol]

Alan would they need to change the 350 at all since it’s in the Trent valley dlc?

[@RightAwayProductions005]

My reaction at 15:41. “Hm, damn, Birmingham doesn’t look too ba- oh, apart from that.” Honestly, i’m 15 years old, i’ve only been on the railways alone TWICE, both into New Street from Oxford, and this is just abysmal, even in my largely untrained eye. DTG, Ima say I trusted you. Im usually one of the people who dont mind rather shoddy quality, but this?? No, not anymore. Sorry DTG, but, it’s the truth.

[@yerda8064]

Does this route come with the old dtg 390 that got discontinued

[@FM60260]

How did you jump from Bletchley to Euston?

[@Nathan_A_RF]

DTG really need to get with it. We're not idiots that will buy anything just because we haven't got it. Jesus Christ, fix goddamn bugs, test the route, update the textures. It's not hard - it's 20-goddamn-20! People won't mind if a release is set back, or even if there is no release date. A quality product will always be bought. A crap one won't. Just take a look at how SCS Software have done so amazingly well with their truck simulators by updating the game and adding better and better DLCs every year. This is shambolic. No one buy this unless it's £3.

[@Vamdua]

running a relatively high end machine on my end (r5 3600 + 5700xt), at 1080p, max settings and not once did I hit above 40fps on this route. forget can it run crysis or flight sim 2020, can it run dtg's wcml south above 30fps lol

[@Vamdua]

c'mon johnny choofan101 come attack me for not speaking the gospel of the glorious dtg

[@10reubenl]

I found the new London Birmingham route disappointing. There is a lack of details including eps signs. There are also some overhead cables going through walls. The freeware is better than this version. The only thing wrong with the free one is the track layout. Plus, the new 390 model has things wrong with it. The pantograph coaches are the wrong way round, and of course the virgin badges are still there. 07:57 were my exact words and reaction. 33:17 was really funny XD I got a refund for this route..

[@lgalink70sbs]

Never clicked so fast☠️

[@jamestillett3002]

Mixed Opinion about this one not bad but its got horrible lag & it has a habit of crashing its quite good when it works

[@317Dan]

My 2 biggest gripes with this (and trust me, there are more) are that there are basically NO markers in sidings (the entirety of Wembley/Willesden has no markers) & the bridge just before Berkhamstead massively clips into the train on the down fast. A truly underwhelming, untested disappointment of a route.

[@stevedolby6518]

317 Dan not to mention they have forgot to put in the ground signals at Wefoc yard. Really is a disappointment.

[@tescolemonbleach2367]

Well at least the DTG 390 is back, that's something I guess

[@AlanThomsonsim]

Ummm not quite it needs a few fixes before it’s usable

[@tescolemonbleach2367]

@@AlanThomsonsim I missed out on the DTG 390 first time round so I'm just glad to have it, even in it's current state. Shame about the rest of the route though, I was looking forward to this one

[@tweedy32]

Looks just like the last 5 Train Sims, plus i have never liked the sound effects. They really need to work on this.

[@carlheadley9775]

Why couldn’t they add some freight class 66

[@sniffy2236]

it was running the same when dtg show it off live on 9900k cpu

[@seanzy243]

Booted into it, saw the state of the station and the refund is pending £25 I'd rather spend on a takeaway...

[@BritAcrossThePond]

This is still better then JT Chiltern line...

[@johnnyh2606]

1:00:47 They want some rhubarb...🤣😂

[@AndyL1707]

17 FPS is better than my frame rate on the Portsmouth - Waterloo line. Leaving Waterloo I get 6/7 FPS - I requested an immediate refund after 11 minutes play

[@garrymathers9]

Rest of my routes are fine but this route is very laggy

[@FM60260]

This route is probably perfect for lower end PC's, it looks like it was optimised for a pre-Millennium Dell running Windows 98 that barely gets 10 FPS on MSTS!

[@aran9952]

I'll watch it tomorrow. But this definitely will be...interesting

[@MIkeDye200202holla]

You seemed a bit surprised at the design of Euston. I have come to realize DTG releases very poor quality products when they work by themselves. All high quality detailed items are co-created with other companies. One of the BEST DLC’s is WCML Trent Valley which they did with JustTrains. It had an extremely detailed cab with actually working systems. More passengers views than just one or two seats. Passenger announcements, working destination boards etc. If other people can do it so can DTG, but they will just keep re-releasing the recycled game with a couple poorly done routes. They should just focus on TSW instead of looking for money on the same old product

[@Daytona2]

"One of the BEST DLC’s is WCML Trent Valley which they did with JustTrains." Nah Trent Valley is one of Alan's routes / Thomson Interactive ;)

[@droge192]

Some good intermediate stations aside, it looks like freeware. And not the best freeware. Such a shame. Clearly unfinished and released to a deadline, 'as is'.

[@1810pepe]

It looks like MSTS!

[@OliversElevators]

So literally one thing has changed, which is the workshop... DTG is just milking this game for a quick cash grab at this point. Guess what? If you want people to buy the game and be satisfied with it, maybe update it to look more like a 2021 game instead of a 2009 game, and for god’s sake, fix the bugs!!! This is ridiculous! Oh, and thanks Alan for finally bringing these problems to DTG’s attention. They’ll only really listen to people like you, so your unsatisfaction with this will hopefully be a message to them to get their sh*t together.

[@etsmp_gh]

JUST BUY THE ROUTES 😒

[@etsmp_gh]

We try our best it takes so long for each routes 😯

[@vambo67]

Seems to be the norm now, release a half finished route then patch it few months down the line. Not acceptable! get the feeling DTG aren't giving the developers enough time as Alan mentioned to come up with a finished product. Grab the money then we'll sort the issues.

[@johnnyh2606]

The freeware West Coast Mainline South v5.3 is 100 times better!!! 👌 The new Frankfurt - Koblenz route is also a catastrophe... 🤢

[@JintySteam1]

I think I'll stick with the ATS one.

[@Larwood.]

it's as if they were making an amazing route and then just stopped 2 months early

[@sprinterofficial8457]

its not the fact the routes terrible its the fact they charge you £24.00 for it

[@phillipbeharall6271]

Thanks Alan Shocking they should hang there heads in shame I have just purchased Microsoft Flight sim 2020 they are back. If they go on to resurrect there Train Simulator it will be good by Dovetail Games

[@lnerfan4468]

It's the same game and same quality just with some updates like most over games

[@danielcresswell7477]

I was almost going to get this, I soon changed my mind when I saw the Steam reviews. Typical DTG, too obsessed in pumping out half assed dlc rather than fixing the game. Same story with TSW. DTG are never going to change. I'd rather give my money to more deserving developers like SCS Software, not these idiots.