TRAIN vs. PLANE - Which is FASTER? Seattle to Portland

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[@1958zed]

Now imagine if that was a dedicated high speed rail line between the two cities (and all the way down the coast).

[@MacAdvisor]

Yes, let's imagine the cost of purchasing the right-of-way all the way from downtown Seattle to downtown Portland. We can't use the existing rails, they belong to the freight company and the HSR train needs specialized tracks to handle the stresses of the speed. So, maybe $500 billion? Then another $100 billion to build it. Thus, we now have $5,000 ticket instead of a $60 ticket. Yay! That's progress. The sad fact is the time for building HSR has passed. For long distances, jets are simply vastly faster. For shorter trips, such as this one, autonomous vehicles will do the job far more conveniently. In the 20 years or so building a HSR would take, the vast majority of cars will drive themselves. I love trains myself. I take the Capitol Corridor train frequently and used to commute to work on it. It is great, but building a replacement HSR version is simply not feasible.

[@liamz.6245]

@@MacAdvisor There is a middle distance where HSR travel is the fastest option, not to mention that Portland and Seattle, Seattle especially is very congested and the small efficiency boost that autonomous vehicles provide simply is insufficient capacity. What actually needs to happen is change to make it so people can get around their cities without cars, and when you leave the city, car-sharing, and the aforementioned rail, HSR and, plane can take over. Cars are simply extremely inefficient and unnatural, and just making them autonomous will not solve medium and short distance travel capacity issues.

[@moartrainz4242]

inshallah 🙌

[@ice3753]

@@MacAdvisor It's definitely feasible to have dedicated HSR routes on the West Coast and East Coast. Giving up seems to be the American attitude when it comes to technology. Just look at what Europe and Japan have.

[@remen8021]

@@MacAdvisor how much did elon musk pay you to act stupid on the internet?

[@davidball6599]

I was noticing that you seemed much more relaxed on the train excursion, while the plane experience seemed like you were always rushing around.

[@buttorr]

id still fly on a plane

[@Cliffdog01]

The Airplane is a lot of hurry up and wait. Hurry for a ticket, wait in line, hurry to security, wait in line, hurry to boarding, wait for a plane, hurry on the plane, wait for the gate, hurry off the plane and potentially wait for the bag.

[@canadarailtracks9274]

👍👍👍

[@mxderate]

@@buttorrWhy? The train is WAY too underrated. It's very enjoyable and well worth the amazing views that you wouldn't encounter otherwise.

[@fakiirification]

if this doesnt make the case for expanded regional rail service in the US, i dont know what else will. maybe a look at the fuel usage and harmful emissions of the plane vs train. fairly sure the train still wins, moreso when you consider that high traffic mainlines can be electrified and further cut emissions, which you cant do with planes.

[@mikegyver6265]

I would be curious if an electric train using power from a fossil fuel power plant would be more efficient. You get loss of power over long distances and transmission to the train with the connection vs. The onboard generator producing power and running the electric motors on a diesel.

[@spredelectric]

Frankly, it doesn't make the case at all. The average person who lives in this corridor doesn't willy-nilly take the plane (or for that matter the train). Not to mention, two bus companies have all but shut down service, two airlines have completely left the market and another has drastically reduced schedules...and Amtrak has even reduced service. Why would all these companies reduce service if there's demand?

[@markrobinowitz8473]

Unfortunately, in the US - even on the western grid - the largest source of electricity is burning natural gas. And since conventional nat. gas peaked in 1973, most of the current use of gas is fracked (70%). Electricity peaked just before covid closures cut use of everything. Dams in drier parts of the west are close to closing (Hoover, Oroville) and long term use of the others is at risk. Solar is nice but doesn't work at night, and there are not enough minerals to build terawatt batteries to back everything up. We're going to be using much less of everything. Trains are much more efficient than planes and cars but the time to have built lots of them was decades ago - and we chose superhighways, war planes and submarines. As MLK said we have guided missiles and misguided men.

[@cvbattum]

@@mikegyver6265 there is likely more loss in a diesel electric engine than in overhead wires, at least on AC power. The problem with electrification is that it's really, really expensive and needs to see extensive usage for it to become viable. Even in Europe, a good portion of rail is not electrified even though it has regular service. It's interesting to see that long distance trains will always swap out locomotives in favor of electric ones and only switch to diesel on the specific sections that aren't electrified. I think that's enough evidence that electricity is more efficient. It's also noteworthy that all ultra high speed trains run on overhead electricity, with the fastest service speed for diesel being some 200km/h while electric goes up to 370km/h.

[@ChristIsKing4ever-l9w]

I highly doubt that a train recieving power from a coal power plant emitting more CO2 than cars is any less harmful to the environment.

[@oscassey]

You were looking on the wrong side on the train, missing Mount Rainier and the other Cascades summits. Now imagine if high speed rail existed on the West Coast! On a side note I took this train twice round trip from Seattle to Portland, way less stress than air travel.

[@momoore5826]

I agree on both fronts. If the train took the old route where it goes north when it leaves Tacoma, he would have some great views. But you can get to the station with five minutes to spare and still make it (I've don't that a few times).

[@MacAdvisor]

Except this is a route of about 180 miles that would be 2-½ hours by autonomous vehicle and relatively easy and far less costly road improvements. Autonomous vehicles will be here in five year, ten at the most, while the train upgrades are 20 years off. An average of 274,000 vehicles per day already travel on I5. Even assuming only ONE passenger per car, far lower than the actual usage, that means 274,000 people per day travel I5. Amtrak single most used route is the NortheastDirect with about 24,000 daily passengers. That is not even 10% of the automobile traffic on the I5 route currently. Dollar for dollar we get far better increase in carrying capacity by improving auto lanes that train tracks. Plus, autonomous vehicles leave when you want from where you want, go to where you want, bring far more stuff with you, including passengers that add directly to carrying capacity. We could have autonomous buses on this route far sooner and for far less money than trains. There are already fabulous buses available between NY and DC for as little as $22 (please see: www.washny.com ). Make them autonomous and you have all the aspects of the train for little more than the rolling stock, plus it is far more scalable. Sorry, HSR, or even higher speed rail, isn't going to happen. There is not the political will or the demand and the alternatives are vastly better. This is sad, but facts are facts. Not. Going. To. Happen. Here. Not. Mike can answer this, but I think this is the longest single thread on DownieLive ever. What do you have to say, Mike?

[@YaBoiScrumpo]

@@MacAdvisor Sure, first gen autonomous vehicles may come to public roads soon, but autonomous vehicles as a whole won't be fully effective or widespread until much longer than that. Autonomous cars won't really be viable until a majority of them have replaced manually operated ones. Until then, drivers will continue to be expected to be attentive in "driver's seat" of an autonomous car. If there's one thing to be said about America, it's how gung-ho people are about not being told what to do by government here. No way in hell that we get to that point in less than 20 years. Trains can be made autonomous too, and actually it is much easier to do so with them than cars due to the significantly less variables on a railway as compared to a roadway. This would certainly be the case in America if we were to update our signaling and switching systems, though I imagine union resistance to protect the jobs of train engineers would be a point of contention too. For the most part, GPS systems and preprogrammed stops within a system in the train's computer would be sufficient. Different story for cars. For instance, Tesla's current system is dependent on having smooth, well-painted roadways to guide itself since it reads the white and yellow lines on the road. How many of America's roads have you seen are that well maintained? Getting them to that level and keeping them at that level will incur far more expense than we do at our present levels of road maintenance. There's also street lights, pedestrians and cyclists, dealing with parking, and a much wider network of roads than rail which would have to be kept highly updated in GPS. All of that doesn't even address the environmental issues around electric cars and busses. Our railways could easily (though not cheaply) be converted run on overhead electric catenary wires. Busses can do this too, but it limits their flexibility which is part of the argument for them. Electric cars and busses obviously will use batteries most often, and at present the mining of materials is both environmentally and socially destructive. We also have yet to be prepared for the crisis of battery disposal or recycling once these vehicles come to widespread use. Of course, the other part of this is the self-fulfilling cycle of train travel being unpopular, receiving no investment since it's not the popular means of transit and there's no political will to help improve that, then continuing to be unpopular. Disregard HSR for a moment here. Taking a look at their Coast Starlight offering, they are limited to a top speed of 79 mph and the route averages 40mph. While the challenge of navigating the mountains plays a role in that low average speed, if Amtrak was able to hit their trainset's top speed of 110 mph more frequently and perhaps up the average speed of that line to 75 mph, the train would be able you between Seattle and Portland as fast as a car, dropping you right in the city center. Further improvements to get the average speed up to 85-90 mph would get you between the two cities faster by train than by car. If the train could better compete with the car on time, it would definitely see notable increases in ridership, which would then boost public opinion of it and help get further funding for improvements. Your comparison of the I-5 and Amtrak's routes is apples to oranges based on the current information you provided. Does that number of people on the I-5 include people using it to get short distances like from their suburb to their preferred grocer? From their suburb to work? Amtrak is not a commuter provider in the western states to the best of my understanding except maybe in California, where people taking a train over using the I-5 would be undeniably beneficial to the area. The better comparison would be how many people travelling between nearby cities like Seattle and Portland fly and ride busses that compete more directly with Amtrak. Additionally, improving Amtrak services would benefit commuters using I-5 since more people using Amtrak means less traffic on the crowded I-5. Also, although bus companies do pay more in taxes than the average user due to the various taxes on heavy vehicles, they do not pay capital costs on infrastructure the way that rail companies do. That's part of why busses can be so much cheaper than trains at present. If the railway had been nationalized, or at least provided subsidies to compete with tax-funded highways and airports, it'd be much more viable today for passengers. Instead, Amtrak does not own very much of their RoW, and railway companies own and maintain the infrastructure their trains run on and pay taxes on said infrastructure on top of that. Of course rail travel went under in the 70s and hasn't recovered to date under those conditions. Additionally, busses absolutely do not provide all the niceties of trains. For one, you can get up and walk around a train once it is in motion easily, which you cannot do on a bus which may be turning frequently. Even if you are to get up and walk on a bus, where would you go? On a train, there's a view car, a lounge, and a dedicated dining car for longer-distance trips. There's also more bathrooms on a train, usually a couple per car attached to the train and at least one is wheelchair accessible. That just names a few ways trains outdo busses in amenities. There, I beat you on the longest thread on DownieLive ever.

[@MacAdvisor]

@@YaBoiScrumpo The gobbledygook about mining material for batteries and such is such nonsense. Do mining lithium make a mess? Yes, but it can be cleaned up and regulations can stop it from happening. You put your finger on the heart of the matter and my very point, "ail travel went under in the 70s and hasn't recovered to date." It simply can't recover because Amtrak doesn't own the right of way and purchasing it now is wildly cost prohibitive. I am not arguing rail travel isn't nice, I am arguing it isn't practical in our country. It is like trying to build a canal network now. The conditions that made both work are gone. Autonomous vehicles are all upside. They are going to do nothing buy get better, faster, cheaper, and easier. Trains are already at their limit. I think we need an award from Mike for the longest running thread. Maybe he could take us all to lunch in Vancouver, BC. I'd drive up for it.

[@fyrelite07]

In Cali there is some project involving High Speed Rail, they say they are gonna do it, but it never happens. I hope it does! However, no more foreign imports please. The Avelia Liberty is getting a lot of backlash for it's 2-tone french horn

[@LQC2556]

On a side note, it is nice that Seattle and Portland both have pretty good transit connections to the airport (otherwise, flying would be even less feasible than it is now).

[@scottlarson1548]

Before Seattle finally built their light rail after years of fighting over it, the only quick and reliable public transportation to SeaTac from downtown was the hotel airport shuttle. The bus seemed to take forever.

[@canadarailtracks9274]

👍👍❤

[@kitkat1486]

As someone who lives in the Seattle area when I go to Portland to visit my mom and don't want to drive I always choose the train over a plane. It's just a nicer experience and beautiful all year long. Nice to know the time and price difference.

[@MajorMel]

I think I must have missed something in the video, because I don't remember him actually telling us the price difference? Timestamp?

[@ShatteredReality2]

@@MajorMel 5:15 is where he says it. $190 more to fly compared to the train in this situation.

[@mxderate]

@@MajorMelPrice difference is massive. Plane is $190 more than the train

[@skiparkcityut]

Always pick the train when it’s close. Plane travel right now has so many cancellations and huge delays.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

To be fair, airports are just malls with extra steps. But malls are definitely not TRUE malls...if you don't get a whiff of the cinnamon rolls from Cinnabon the moment you enter. Rail may be slower than planes at times, but it offers gorgeous scenery that planes cannot with routes like the Hudson Line, Cascades, the Canadian, Empire Builder, California Zephyr, Scotland's West Highland Line, Qinghai-Tibet railway, and more

[@buttorr]

on a less cloudy day planes have better scenery. Also scenery is subjective so its not a good way to conpare

[@markrobinowitz8473]

Nice comparison. Tiny fact check - you can't see Crater Lake from the SEA - PDX flight unless your pilot is lost. Rainier, Mt. St Helens, Hood - yes. I've flown past Crater Lake on the EUG - SFO route but you can't really see the crater from the flight. But it's best appreciated on the ground. I hope the Vancouver to Eugene Amtrak route gets upgraded before the oil runs out.

[@AryaYtBus]

I'm an automotive fan from Indonesia who is also an automotive youtuber, especially buses from Indonesia.. I'm very happy to see your content..

[@IzzyOnTheMove]

For such a short distance and the airport security and usual delays, I'm sure the train wins this hands down 👍 (plus, comfort!!!)

[@nonrevmax]

I'll point out that most of these short flights are mainly intended for connecting passengers and not so much people going from nearby cities. If you wanted to, you could've actually gotten this flight for cheaper if you had a connecting flight out of either city. For example, a flight from sea-pdx-san will actually be cheaper than sea-pdx

[@jarjarbinks6018]

That’s true but the airlines might get you in trouble for that. Still definitely cheaper than a SEA to PDX direct flight

[@TohaBgood2]

I really don't understand why we are subsidizing so many of these useless flights when the train is objectively more comfortable and, in the real world, faster. About 80% of Americans loathe flying anyway. The "Jet Setter" age is over. Flying is a chore no one wants to have to do nowadays. Why continue to invest in an outdated, out of style mode of transportation? It's just a waste of tax money.

[@jarjarbinks6018]

@@TohaBgood2 Portland to Seattle flights definitely aren’t subsidized lol

[@TohaBgood2]

@@jarjarbinks6018 Yeah? Who paid for the airports? Who still pays for air traffic control? Who subsidizes their fuel? How about all the roads that were built on the public dime to and from the airport? Were you just going to walk through a field with your suitcase? All of those super-short-haul flights take up gates that you and I paid for and now can't be used for actually useful flights! I understand subsidizing long-haul flights that are impractical even on HSR. Those subsidies pay for themselves in the "commerce" and the economic activity they generate. But why should my tax money go toward subsidizing a journey that is both cheaper and more comfortable to do via rail? What are we, made of money? Taxpayer subsidies need to be spent wisely! It ain't free money!

[@YaBoiScrumpo]

@@TohaBgood2 I fundamentally agree with you here, but short-haul flights on their own don't really incur additional taxpayer costs on already existing airports and their surrounding infrastructure. Perhaps on fuel, but that's really it. If one wants to fly between Philadelphia and Seattle, and another wants to fly between Portland and Seattle, in both cases they use the same infrastructure in the destination city. Perhaps you mean to suggest eliminating smaller airports in less significant cities and having people ride rail from airports in nearby larger cities to their final destinations after landing? My perspective here is to advocate for more rail subsidies to level the playing field. With all the capital costs rail companies incur that airlines and bus companies don't (due to taxpayer-funded airports and roads as you mentioned), there's really no way rail can fairly compete in this country at the moment. I would love to see HSR come through in places where it would be successful, but honestly getting current trains up to their maximum speed and focusing on public image would be more beneficial in most areas right now. That can be done realistically even under today's conditions if the right moves are made and funding secured.

[@John_Fugazzi]

Airports have become such a time eating experience before boarding that I had a feeling the train would win this. For a trip of this distance the train is great. Trans continental, the plane would usually be my pick unless I wanted a longer and more memorable experience.

[@boomerix]

There is still the distance in between in which a Sleeper Train can compete with a Plane. There is a route I used to fly quite often that would take me all together (getting to Air Port, checking in, waiting for boarding etc.) about 6 hours. So the last time I decided to take a 14 hour sleeper Train journey instead. Was a pretty good decision, easy, convenient, slept through most of the Journey and I didn't waste an entire day travelling as I left in the evening and arrived in the morning.

[@DannyEastVillage]

I grew up in Charlotte and live in NYC. In the years before my mom and dad died in 2011, I went down to see them pretty regularly. The flight of something under 600 miles took about a little over an hour,. To board a 7am flight, I had to be ready to be picked up at my apartment in Manhattan by the shuttle van around 4:00am Because of early morning business flights (pre-COVID), LaGuardia was a madhouse at that hour. By the time. I'd checked in and gone through security, I'd get to my gate about 20-30 minutes before boarding time. Because of heavy air traffic, wait-time to take-off was generally between 30-45 minutes once we left the gate. Often, I didn't arrive in Charlotte until around 915-930. So, total travel time for a one-hour flight was around five hours. I don't care if I never see the inside of an airport for the rest of my life.

[@buttorr]

Bus is probably better because of price. Also planes are cooler

[@DannyEastVillage]

@@buttorr Bus ain't bad for short hops. I took the Greyhound to Wilmington from NYC a few summers ago. The coach was immaculate, attractive and comfortable and the driver a totally cool, professional dude who was a pleasure to interact with. Travel time was exactly what they said it would be--about 2-1/2 hours. Quiet, non-hectic and restful. This was before we opened the new rail terminal (Daniel P Moynihan) in and under the old Post Office building. Before that, getting on trains was hellish at Penn Station, but it's much better now. For short hops up and down the Eastern Seaboard, I dont see any reason to subject yourself to LaGuardia, JFK or Newark airpots and the befores-and-afters that come with air travel.

[@buttorr]

@@DannyEastVillage plane cool

[@PlanesTrainsEverything]

Pre-Covid I raced myself between Glasgow and London (415 miles). Amazingly, both rail and air *should* have been 5hr 25min. Unfortunately my train from Glasgow was cancelled, and by catching the next departure, air won the race... that time. I even gave air an advantage by reducing the British Airway's recommended check-in time at Glasgow by 30 minutes. It's always an interesting experiment. Great video.

[@mholtebeck]

I had a similar case pre-covid. I had to go from Anaheim to SF Bay Area. Some drove- leaving directly from the 'Duck Pond', while I flew from Ontario (not sure why I choose Ontario). If I drove directly home (Hayward, CA), I would have gotten home sooner, but I we've won. BTW-driving your car is about $300 less expensive) because the flight was delayed an hour.

[@jk-gb4et]

@@mholtebeck I always have to do a double take when I see Ontario mentioned in an obviously California setting, being a Canadian!

[@matthewdezii]

This is the most fair comparison of time I’ve seen in a long time. Sure, flight time is short, but most ppl forget how long it takes in security and getting through security and picking up your bags!

[@DannyEastVillage]

and even short flights are not inexpensive.

[@DennisSmithAIStockImageClub]

Umm, you wouldn't be able to see Crater Lake unless you were flying south towards California. ✈

[@anthonywarrener1881]

Great. Idea ! The train is much better than the plane on that route, and I have tried both ! The train is stress free, and just consider the worry of an overbooked plane ! Well done !

[@gvcarpenter60]

I enjoy this train trip, stress free beautiful scenery, good wi-fi, and spacious seating and restrooms.

[@UV980]

I took the train from Seattle to Portland it looks like around the same time you did and had a very enjoyable experience, with great connectivity at both ends and *no* delays on the Amtrak Cascades for only $27. I look to take train trips whenever possible.

[@RogerLetour]

Loved this video!! A long time ago I was in grad school in Mt. Angel, Oregon. I used to ride my bike 20 miles to Salem, Oregon and meet the train. A ticket at that time from Salem to Tacoma, Wa. was seven dollars. It cost me two dollars to put my bike on the baggage car. So for nine bucks I'd go that distance and when the train got to Tacoma, I'd get my bike and ride nine miles to Puyallup, Wa. and visit my parents for the weekend. On Sunday afternoon it was a reverse routine. It was always fun and I really grew to love the train. Now that I'm old and retired (or is that just tired) I'm ready to do something similar again. I live in El Paso now but we are thinking of moving back to the PNW. I think I'll start using Amtrak again for familial visits etc. I'll take the train over the plane any day of the week. Thanks for bringing back many good memories.

[@kimberlywilson7929]

Your music selection is flawless. Love it.

[@vickibrotton3320]

Hi ya Mike 🙂 glad ur ok missed you. Great to see you back in action.

[@teaguenstanczak1711]

Any flight between two cities less than 250 miles apart should be considered a failure on the part of the government. That can so easily be a faster, more comfortable, more sustainable experience if they properly invest in the train infrastructure

[@evilgenius919]

We really ought to nationalize the rails. Service is so much better in the NEC because the transit agencies own the track and you can still accommodate freight. The class 1's have a lot to answer for.

[@knightwolf3511]

no it's the failure people are flying that close together it's a 55 hour trip if you went from Seattle to Denver and 3 if you took a plane, but you have other people living in new work that may fly to Portland or Seattle

[@pinkpandamiranda]

Oh my gosh, trains are always better!

[@Apollo580]

I've flown between PDX and SEA so many times in my life and it's literally my job. But I absolutely prefer the train between the 2 cities. Quality of life over rushing for what might be the same amount of time.

[@MrStoppingallstation]

Love how train Mike always shows inside those historic stations. Aeroplane Mike as you said had the better snack with that breakfast wrap ,but train Mike wins hands down sitting in the gorgeous cafe car enjoying the view.

[@paulstransportandmore]

I think they are very evenly matched

[@paulstransportandmore]

Love these videos. You should do an Amtrak cascades back up to Vancouver when it opens in September

[@805Coastal]

Your tag line at the end...... Fabulous!!

[@shelabrehio1050]

I’m so glad you’re back it’s been a long month without you. I enjoy your videos so much.

[@razeenpandie1117]

Keep these adventures coming mike. I have never left my country and with your videos it take me on an adventure. I am from South Africa 🇿🇦 keep safe 🤙

[@Ajlikestraveling]

This competition was so entertaining and educational to watch!! Now I feel so tempted to ride a train somewhere and travel! Keep up the good work!!

[@jasmin0930]

I love how both train and plane Mike are super competitive. Great video and not only did train Mike win but it definitely was the less stress and more scenic way to travel 🙂

[@doughezlep7602]

I'm finally going to venture an overnight Amtrak trek in late August on the Coast Starlight between Portland and LA, squeezing into a roomette. I will rough it for one night as far as the facilities go since I will be heading to a hotel in Portland and home in LA. Better accommodations were sold out. We'll see how it goes. Welcome back on line!

[@jancatperson8329]

Unless you have to go a long distance as quickly as possible, trains are always better.

[@TohaBgood2]

It helps that Amtrak basically puts Business Class seats in their economy class. There is just no way for a flying tin can to compete with that. Also, all that time you waste at an airport is actual seat time in a train. It's just so much more productive to be on a train than running through the airport or waiting in TSA lines. You can relax or work, but your time is yours on a train.

[@josephpenn1115]

@@TohaBgood2 That's all well and good and perfect for short corridors like NEC and Brightline, but if you are a business traveler your schedule is much tighter and if Amtrak is heavily prone to delays then it's useless. As soon as you get past about the 250-mile mark jets just become quicker end to end.

[@TohaBgood2]

@@josephpenn1115 The NEC isn't that short. But it also has a lot of destinations on the route and most passengers don't travel the whole length. So I guess you're right overall. It's 457 miles. It just has very high speed limits. Almost the whole thing is at or above 125mph and there are sections that go as fast as 150mph. Now they also want to upgrade speeds in more places and increase the existing high speed sections to 160mph. But yes, we need faster trains to have them compete with the airlines better. That's why we need full High Speed Rail! Proper HSR does better than the airlines (i.e. steals up to 80% of their customers) on journeys of up to 500 miles. In some countries it's 600 miles, in others it's 400 or 450. But 500 miles is about the median limit for HSR. Above that planes win. But that is also the median length of flights in the US overall. So that means that roughly half of the current flight routes in the country could have 80% of their passengers convert to HSR. That's a massive number of passengers. And this is exactly what we see empirically happen wherever HSR becomes available. Many airlines basically lose short-haul altogether and are barely able to compete closer to the 500 mile limit. More competitive prices for all travelers and environmental benefits!

[@Cal90208]

@@josephpenn1115 Quicker doesn’t always mean better, it’s about the whole experience. Amtrak doesn’t need to become the fastest, it just needs to be fast enough to reasonably compete with cars. Meaning instead of having to make HSR, we just need to increase the average speed on current lines. This could be done by eliminating slow sections, enforcing the Amtrak priority rule, making stops more efficient so they take up less time, and increasing top speeds to 90-110. In addition the experience must be Comfortable, convenient, and affordable. Amtrak does miss the marks on most of those right now but the potential is there. Oh yeah and frequency and transit connections must be better

[@josephpenn1115]

@@Cal90208 for business travel punctuality and speed are the two main factors, there is a lack of flexibility for that customer compared to a tourist. While a low-speed line would appeal to some tourists it doesn't appeal to enough in order to be a better form of transport compared to flying or driving. I like trains as much as the next guy but even in Europe and Asia they recognize that it's not the best form of long-distance transport for passengers.

[@Airgotravelsworldwide]

Mike, you should do a race from Seattle to Vancouver, since the distance is about the same, but then it would compare border wait times and customs between air travel and rail travel.

[@yeetboiwhatyesplease2095]

Some reasons as to why I like trains more then planes: I have altitude sickness. I like being right in the city rather then having to drive there. I like being able to stretch out more. I like scenery from the ground more then from the air.

[@shealupkes]

Less walking for the train, at most they demand you go through a room or up/down a set of stairs while airports feel like huge mazes

[@yeetboiwhatyesplease2095]

@@shealupkes Not to mention the case that sometimes people have to end up sprinting to get on their plane take off without them.

[@donjohnston3776]

My wife and I really like the True Earth laundry strips. Such a totally efficient, light way to do laundry as opposed to what we were doing for 50 years. Great product whether or not you are travelling.

[@walkermangum56]

Great video as always, and like you said even on trips where trains are a bit slower, I've found the stress level I feel to be far less on trains!

[@ChrisJones-gx7fc]

There is a proposed high speed rail line between Eugene, Portland, Seattle and Vancouver (Cascadia HSR) that would make the Portland-Seattle trip in under an hour. It would use a combination of public and private funding, and connect 8.5 million people along the I-5 corridor. America is far behind the rest of the world when it comes to 21st century intercity passenger rail, and needs to build high speed rail to catch up. California is doing that with its SF-LA/Anaheim HSR route that’ll connect the two cities via the Central Valley in under 3 hours at speeds of 220mph, and so far is the only US high speed rail project in the construction phase. The estimated base cost for the entire 470-mile route is currently at about $93 billion, and the estimated start time for SF-LA service is 2033, but it is happening and needs to keep happening for the sake of both California’s and America’s transportation future. We cannot continue to rely on driving and flying for most of our travel needs, and need a viable third option that the world has proven for decades is high speed rail. High speed rail is far from outdated, and continues to be built and expanded around the world and continually improved to go even faster while also being safer and convenient. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. There are a number of corridors in the US, like California and Cascadia, where high speed rail would be very effective at relieving congestion by providing a better alternative to a long drive or relatively short flight. Which multi-billion dollar investment will we be more satisfied with in 20-30 years from now? Keeping the status quo of adding more freeway lanes and expanding airports which are short term and finite solutions that’ll ultimately lead to even more congestion, or do we invest in the 21st century alternative and finally start catching up with the world with high speed rail. Let’s finish California high speed rail, which has always and continues to be building to SF and LA, and learn from its example, for better or worse, to build other high speed rail lines around the country, in the Pacific NW, Texas, the NE and Midwest. Let’s look beyond today toward tomorrow, and envision the kind of world we want our descendants to inherit.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

So happy to see Michael with another video! Such fun!

[@evelyngrammar]

My friend and his colleague left a meeting in Boston, MA to return to central NJ. One drove; the other took the plane. They arrived at the same tollbooth on the NJ Turnpike at exactly the same time! Generally, with airports outside the major cities and the need to check in several hours early; trains are the better option.

[@DarkInuFan]

Love this one. I take the train from Portland to Seattle every year for a convention. I’m glad that this is proof to win my argument against some friends about the train being the best way to go.

[@larrysteve7272]

Good video to prove the point that trains are better for transportation between cities that are roughly 200-500km apart. Does not even need to be high speed rail, just efficient on time normal train service is faster.

[@bobtuckey2409]

Well that was fun Mike! Interesting to see that the train was faster. I once dated a guy from Portland and by train it took me 9 hours from Vancouver. Drove after that.

[@EricaGamet]

Nine hours?! It should be like 6 or so, right? But you always have to factor in delays, delays, delays (and border crossings, too).

[@scottlarson1548]

The only time it took me that long to get back to Portland on Amtrak was when a freight train derailed in front of us and they had to send buses to Centrailia to take us the rest of the way.

[@jarjarbinks6018]

I do hope Amtrak cascades early 2000’s long range plan for 110-120mph top speed comes to fruition! I think they aimed for an initial 2:30 long trip between SEA and PDX

[@everettrailfan]

Not unless we can spare another quarter trillion bucks to build a dedicated passenger rail corridor. Hell, the Link Light Rail extension is already over $50 billion!

[@jarjarbinks6018]

@@everettrailfan The early WSDOT plan which was a mix of new ROW and capacity increase along BNSF ROW estimated the cost to be around 7 billion in today’s dollars. It would still take 2.5 hours to get from SEA-PDX or 2.5 hour to get from SEA-VAN Link light rail development has been too expensive!

[@bradmack8953]

I'd pick the train any day ... love the space and relaxation. xx

[@PalmelaHanderson]

Growing up in the PNW, the ONLY reason I would ever take a plane between the two is because if you're flying international from PDX, you pretty much have to go through Sea-Tac or SFO. But if I'm just traveling between Portland or Seattle (or Seattle-Vancouver), I'll take the train 10 times out of 10.

[@alaskafan21]

Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike where have you been brother. For the past SEVERAL weeks we have had DownieLive withdrawal. I have looked EVERY Saturday and have seen old post until today. That being said WELCOME BACK and PLEASE keep them vids a comin in. Thank you and say good night Gracie. "Good night Gracie."

[@Babbajune]

Absolutely the train!! ❤️

[@bits_for_bytes]

You cannot see crater lake from the SeattlePortland flight… there’s a lot of mountain between that route and crater lake :)

[@lyndabenner1634]

Glad to see you back. Great video.

[@cNatTravels]

Was in the PNW last week - got to Portland from Chicago via Seattle! So a lot of this video looked veeeeeeeeery familiar.

[@chuckduzzie8529]

What a wonderful video. I sent it to a train enthusiast friend of mind immediately

[@brianfinn9992]

Hi Mike. I really enjoy your videos. A hotly debated topic here in the big apple: NYC to Boston on a plane vs train vs automobile. Would make another great DownieLives episode.

[@tonywalters7298]

I would like to see Amtrak vs Commuter Rail in the NEC

[@ve2vfd]

While visiting the west coast last may I took the Amtrak train from Seattle to Portland and it was a nice relaxing experience. First class was only a few dollars more than coach and the views were nice. And as a bonus the train stations were very short cab rides from my hotels.

[@bradbest4418]

Defiantly the train.......more relaxing......less hectic.....and the greasy spoon comfort food looks amazing......I travel by Amtrak too.....and I know how tasty their food is......I am eagerly awaiting for Amtrak's return back into Canada and to Vancouver, BC....... you should try the Coast star light from Seattle, to Los Angeles.....it's a great trip.....and all restauraunt car meals are included if you buy a sleeper room.....I took the Star Light to Los Angeles and a coach bus to Las Vegas.....great trip

[@michaelfreeze2949]

I didn't know Mike had an identical twin brother

[@cjh1846]

I've ALWAYS assumed the train is faster than flying (between Seattle and Portland). Thank you for comparing the two!

[@TravelsWithTony]

Nice job ! And like many others have said “… if only we had high speed rail”. Lived in Spain for a while, Madrid-Valencia is about 185mi. Train takes 1 hr 40 min …. Nuff said

[@stevensteven5144]

If you have the time and traveling a relatively short distance I love a train ride. A train ride a white wine and a cheese plate and I’m in heaven.

[@jwil4286]

About that train vs car time: that 3hrs is during good traffic (assuming you’re talking about taking I-5). The second you have to put up with traffic, the half hour suddenly gets diminished (if not inverted).

[@theteamedward108]

Can't wait for next week

[@ketch_up]

This is my favorite video that you've ever made

[@joermnyc]

Cascades service to Vancouver is supposed to be back in September, would be interesting to try this crossing the boarder.

[@nssrrailfan6443]

Go Train! Great videos as always!

[@eganfo]

Fun idea and something I think about often living in Seattle with friends in Portland.

[@bearinmind50]

I don’t know if anybody has said it yet but you can’t see Crater Lake on a flight from Seattle to Portland since it is 180 miles south of Downtown Portland as the crow flies.

[@jonathonjanuary2395]

I think I found your channel maybe two weeks ago. I thoroughly enjoy your content. It really makes encourages me to take my daughter [4yo] on further adventures given what seems like a much more laid back travel than rushing through airports.

[@Helen3691]

All three of the Amtrak lines you mentioned are fantastic journeys. Agree with other commenters that distance is a factor for train vs plane but time not being a factor I would choose train over plane any time. Love your content.

[@squadlee]

I’ve never been on a train before but after watching your videos… I’m about to gooo!

[@VtorHunter]

The train looked far more enjoyable! Plus sometimes they are the Rails to Trails Guides on them which I was going to become but then covid happened.

[@pacificostudios]

This is a good comparison because the tracks between Seattle and Portland are twisty and speeds are low. Amtrak averages over 50 MPH between Los Angeles and San Diego, because they are many long straight sections.

[@AJMSTUDIOSvideo]

Nice job on the video! Enjoyable to watch. By the way, you were not looking at Crater Lake and Mount Hood together. Crater Lake is in southern Oregon, no where close to where you were. :)

[@Larry-325]

Mike I am with you. I would rather do a train or road trip these days. Have no desire to take a plane. Great video! 👍👍👍👍

[@robyoungquist5803]

Much prefer the train … less expensive ✅. less stress ✅✅✅✅. Nice scenery along the way ✅. COMFORTABLE seats ✅✅✅✅

[@nataliawegiel5558]

I was not expecting that. Cant wait till next week 😉

[@ajearlywine4622]

pdx is hands down my favorite airport ever, yes i am biased

[@rybone6]

The new terminal in 2024 will be gorgeous, can't wait. 😊

[@johnmiller5679]

I now live in Florida and going up to Long Island where I have family I need to fly. Now I used to live in DC and from there to NYC and even Long Island the train is just much better. On smaller trips it’s close but a plane really is the only way to go if you talking anything over 500 miles

[@harrybutler1828]

Very interesting video Mike. Thanks

[@sheilaathay2034]

Nice! I grew up in Seattle and Portland. I knew the train would win. Even by a smidgen. 🤣💖

[@AL-grhvc]

a lot of effort going into these videos, thank you for another great ride Mike, very good content to watch 💯👏👏👏

[@doughezlep7602]

I was in Boston last week and connecting in Newark I had the impression I saw the entire population of Newark in Terminal C.

[@sierrawhitworth6103]

After watching this, there is nothing that would make me want to take the plane instead of train if I had the choice. ❤

[@kellytraylor6915]

Wow that was eye opening

[@ZCarsMuppets]

I prefer a train window because it's bigger and it's more likely that you will get one.

[@DevonMopiedmont1143]

I did this trip once. Really fun but also flew the Q400 with Alaska which was awesome.

[@liddlej4]

I absolutely love taking the train between Tacoma and Portland. I haven't taken it since the Nisqually Bypass opened permanently but luckily most of the views you miss are accessible through public parks and there are still tons of great views once you get south of the bypass.

[@RedHillian]

I love some train content, and Train vs Plane is always fun!

[@rynaard]

Love trains. Sadly it isn't much of an option in Oklahoma but can remember riding them in Washington State as a child. And the scenery is so beautiful

[@debrap947]

I couldn't choose which view is better, they are both great. My preferred way to travel would be the train, nostalgic, slower pace, and seemly less crowded. But I love flying. 🤷🏼‍♀

[@andycrawford9870]

Hey Michael, try that in Canada, say Vancouver to Wiinipeg and see who wins?! Canadian rail travel is outclassed by the priority of freight. Hey there's an idea. Wrangle a freight train ride from coast to coast vs Vancouver to Halifax...stop timers on crew changes, same for crew exchanges on aircraft and see how that all works out. Nothing against our American friends/viewers, but let's see what Canada has to offer since we can see what the Americans already can offer on passenger vs freight movement. They win that one, rails down!

[@andrewbrooks6334]

Another excellent video this week! Can’t we agree that Mike has the best and most inviting tagline?!

[@Sekhonstill1234]

Very insightful

[@spredelectric]

As someone that does the Portland to Seattle trip at least several times a year if not more, a few comments (or more). 1. Driving rarely takes me three or more hours. True, it's easy to get stuck in traffic, especially in Tacoma. There's ways around it. Which gets to point #2: 2. There's only four trains a day between Portland and Seattle. There's...a lot more planes. And you can drive whenever you want. Not everyone wants - or can - leave precisely on Amtrak's schedule. What if you have a job and get off work at a certain time - if you take Amtrak, you now have hours and hours to wait. And wait. And wait. 3. Union Station is nice? Tomorrow it won't be. A non-existent HVAC system, combined with just one food option, hard seats, no Wi-Fi...PDX wins hands down. (King Street is at least nicer from a temperature comfort gauge, but still lacks amenities that are standard at Sea-Tac.) 4. Not everyone travels to/from downtown. In fact in either city, the vast majority of the population does not live downtown. In Portland, half of the region's population lives closer to the airport, than to Union Station. (Thank you, Washington County, for skewing it to half.) If I'm travelling from Gresham to Tukwila, for example, the train adds significant travel time in each direction, on top of the induced delay because of fewer frequencies. Likewise, do a comparison from Salem to Olympia - except you can't get to OIympia by train, you end up in Lacey and then have a long bus ride. (But at least there isn't an airline option available.) 5. Both MAX and Central Link have encountered significant delays due to security and staffing issues. That's why at least in Portland most travelers avoid MAX. And when MAX breaks down there's no alternate - TriMet cancelled the bus service that could expand accessibility to more areas, especially to east Portland and Vancouver. And the most important consideration: 6. If you're flying to Seattle, it's probably because you're connecting to another flight. I've lived here for over 40 years and honestly can't think of anyone who flew to Seattle just to fly to Seattle, unless they were an Avgeek, had some Alaska Airlines award miles they wanted to burn up, or some other similar reason. The reality is a lot of flights have been cancelled out of Portland, requiring a connection at a larger airport. And since Alaska is one of the largest airlines out of PDX, that means flying up to Seattle to catch a flight elsewhere. No different than flying United to Denver or San Francisco, or Delta to Salt Lake City. Whereas, the only people that would take Amtrak to Seattle to connect to another train, aside from railfans, would be people going to Wenatchee. Not exactly a large market for Portlanders, unless someone has a hankering to pick apples. The reality is that Greyhound and Bolt Bus have significantly cut service (or in the case of Bolt, shut down altogether, although they were just Greyhound buses painted orange and stopped at street corners instead of bus stations), Amtrak has cut service with no plans to restore it, and even Alaska has reduced the number of flights between the two cities. Delta added a few flights (out of spite) but SkyWest completely dropped its regional network out of Portland. So is there really a "market" when not one, not two, not three, not four, but FIVE separate companies have reduced or pulled out of the market completely?

[@joshramirez7]

The train bias in this video is obvious no matter the advantage or disadvantage, and I couldn't agree more! 🚅

[@dsdonovan]

That looks like a fun challenge.

[@BMMEC6000]

If there is an option to take the train I will always take it. I never have and never will like flying. The convenience of the train is amazing and I just love riding the train.

[@shawnbell6392]

Its similar between Seattle and Vancouver BC, except going through customs for both adds more time.

[@N3RPB]

Thx for the interesting topic. I was rooting for the train 😁