Transient Response in Motherboards and GPUs part 2: load line / LLC /AVP

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

This video adds some real world context to this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHjQfWmYbpuGoZo

[@YTHandlesWereAMistake]

Another shirt requested: I don’t throw stuff out the window (C) Builzoid, 2020

[@andrewryder3075]

You've got it (slightly) backwards. LLC actually targets ABOVE the intended output voltage (in an amount proportional to current) in order to compensate for ohmic losses; i.e., if you've got an LLC of 0.5mV/A and you're drawing 10A, the BIOS will actually tell the PWM controller to shoot for 1.005V, so that 1.000V reaches the CPU (after the I×R losses in the power plane). It doesn't particularly protect from overshoot - (in fact too high an LLC can result in higher temps from overvolting) - but it DOES limit undershoot (and helps stability).

[@isaacsmith5489]

Right here is the most educational and serious video uploaded on april fools.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

it's 5AM April 2 for me.

[@rtyzxc]

@@snowwsquire It would have been very funny if he talked complete but believable bullshit to us noobs for 40 minutes and then said it was all false at the end of the video. Then release a real video afterwards.

[@adrianstan5794]

I love the parts when buildzoid goes like: "Oh ok so this was a bunch of unnecessary information" and I'm like "is it weird if I enjoy the rambling more than the actual subject ?"

[@penguinton7691]

This is honestly one of my favorite videos series made by you.

[@penguinton7691]

Buildzoid will you have a video on how to find a good LLC setting without using an oscilloscope. You did say to use the lowest LLC settings with 1.45v on an Intel platform but a walkthrough video would be nice.

[@Karan_HDS]

I never have any idea what is being talked about when I see the title of the video, but by the end of it, I always end up with pretty strong opinions on what should have been done even though it is irrelevant to me. Buildzoid, my man, I will watch all of your videos. Cheers.

[@phantompanda1508]

Everyone doing a Harry Potter marathon and me here sitting doing a build zoid marathon...... Tnx for all the information you share i literally love you... If i come to uk one day id literally be your butler

[@brovid-19]

This was incredibly informative and yet I have even less of an understanding of LLC than I did before. Looks like I'll be looking these videos for the next few months until I kind of get it.

[@TheMakiran]

It's so nice to learn how my computer works with you

[@bad001bd]

It'd be great if you could do more detailed analyses as well. I really enjoyed both this and the last video, and I'd love to see more like them in the future.

[@AmbiguityCaptive]

Thanks for very useful info with simple explanations. Very appreciate!

[@Coloneljesus]

This was extremely informative!

[@ole7736]

Love your videos, the more detail the better! Could you perhaps do a video on explaining what chokes/inductors do and what their purpose on mobos is?

[@tacticalcenter8658]

Luumi has a great video on choosing the right load line for your setup.

[@rnrkdqls86]

i guess it would be reasonable to say that if ur just overclocking and testing for the maximum possible stable frequency (for a short period of time, dont care at all about lowering cpu life) --> no LLC ur planning to overclock and use it 24/7 --> find the best possible vdroop setting for the least Vmax-Vmin (for stability and longevity) so itd be ideal to start off by finding the minimum voltage required at maximum cpu load with LLC off, then fine tuning the LLC settings to sustain the minimum required load voltage with some minimal + offsets to the base voltage...am i correct? another point to make note is that this LLC configuration would probably work best for moderate overclockers (ie: 9900k at 5Ghz all cores), lets take for example overclockers who would have binned chips and would punch in 1.43V (at 100% load) to achieve 5.2+ghz with no LLC, with LLC enabled this would mean theyd have to live with idle voltages around 1.45V-1.5V (depending on the LLC setting). this would mean theyd be running their systems at nearly 1.5V idle 24/7 and you would have to consider if having some overshoot while having stable idle voltages are safe or removing overshoot with high idle voltages are safe for the lifespan of ur cpu......this is another overclocking dilemma thanks for another great video!

[@aenra6179]

Loved this, thank you. Few questions if i may :) i) Give us some specific Prime settings for simulating a transient-heavy workload? ii) You mentioned VID. Isn't that overridden when going overspec (manually) on voltage? iii) From part i and power banks. Does this mean the capacitors "in front" of the inductors are linked and run in parallel? My thanks in advance and keep these coming please, only channel i can actually learn something from.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

the prime95 settings depend on the CPU. For the 8700K 128K FFTs works really well. I'm not sure about other CPUs.

[@T0bimaru]

I've used this info to undervolt my laptop to new levels. Complicated stuff, lost my head a few times. I am nearly 500mV lower than factory voltage on AVX workload now, ~20C cooler load temps as well. The idle voltage also much lower! IA Vcore AC/DC LLC a real fine-tuning option if you can access it.

[@OitbCZSf0bUiQAMXK2Mz]

29:41 Recommended Method

[@ПётрБ-с2ц]

11:14 what I do not understand about your drawing is that it's not that the load voltage is supposed to go down after AVP is weakened, it's that the idle voltage goes up.

[@emperorSbraz]

fun fact, back in the athlon xp days we fought really hard to counter droop so hard the word "droop" became a negative trait for boards. of course those cpus could eat absurdly high voltage (like 2V on a 1.65V cpu) constantly without major degradation issues on air cooling. :)

[@teddygoboom1]

I had a random idea bz, if you wanted to get more in to streaming, you should do the beginning on twitch and youtube, and save the last half for twitch only to get people over there.

[@rogierx]

Ok great video and explanation, i really enjoy watching and listening to all the remarks, so how do i use this information? If i am overclocking my regular R5 2600 CPU to 4200 MHz, should i set my loadline to extreme? Or normal? Your explanation looks like inverted loadline in the Gigabyte X570 elite bios. Will my system be more stable with an extreme loadline, or just more power efficient?

[@JMUDoc]

I always think of transient response as being like a car's suspension - VRMs can't absorb the "dips and bumps" perfectly.

[@Michael-OBrien]

Okay, so when you were describing this, you got a raised eyebrow out of me 🤨. Why? Because every other source I’ve glanced over through the years has told me that LLC *raises* the regulator’s output voltage on load, not lowers. I went and checked, because what the computer enthusiast community calls Vdroop is what EE’s call voltage drop due to the resistance in the line to the load. Even wikichip maintains that LLC *raises* the voltage under load, not lowers. Was there a design change that all manufacturers participated in?

[@NMinatoS]

from my understanding, it can both raise and lower the voltage under load. depending on the setting

[@Michael-OBrien]

The question/comment is moot now

[@NMinatoS]

@@Michael-OBrien what have you concluded?

[@Michael-OBrien]

_Y YOUNG he made another video on it. Need to rewatch it. Since his thoughts aren’t concise and his conclusion is… odd… I don’t have my mind made up just yet

[@vvvvvvvvvvv631]

My amd rx590 or my psu were failing since 2020 (it was bought in late 2019) and it was getting worse over time. Games would crash, black screen with sound output and one day it was crashing everytime with basically any game and somtimes worse. Then I bought a new motherboard + cpu with an OK igpu so I could play while I ordered a new gpu and psu. Then I decided to test the same GPU on my half new pc which was using the same Antec PSU and it is working 100% fine. It is even better now, actually. Basically my previous motherboard, an Asus p8z77-v was failing or something like that. I remember some USB ports didn't work anymore and analog audio output also didn't work. tldr check your motherboards and rams if you think your gpus or psus are faulty

[@MACEVES]

You're a genius, how did you learn all this?

[@Michael-OBrien]

Since you’re dealing with under 2 V, you can switch to some old school resistive probes or just get/make a 1:1 50 ohm coaxial probe and then you can get rid of using a x10 probe

[@namdoanha8911]

guy , very good expert ! .

[@Paddydapro]

So did I understand it correctly, its best not to choose the llc setting that gets you the same voltage under load as when it's idling but rather a lower one that drops the voltage a few millivolts?

[@alexanderdimario731]

Do my LLC optimal settings (choosing by 0, 0.5, 1, 2 mOhm) change if i change my voltage? If my voltage is, for example, 1.350V, which LLC is more efficent? is it, still, 1 mOhm? I'm asking you, because i'm trying to improve my Ryzen 5 3600 efficency at 4.3 GHz, saving some watts (and amperes) to push it safely to 4.4, and i really trust your opinion on overclocking theme. thx in advice Bullz!

[@bobhumplick4213]

question: when you use avx offset on intel and auto voltage, is the avx voltage set the same as no offset or is the -100 offset taken into account (voltage lowered)?

[@Symba_Lysm]

What sort of level of LLC calibration would you recommend fro a R9 3900X? I'm new to the overclocking business but i want to give it a go on the chip i'm planning to buy. Oh btw, i'm trying to aim for a 4.2/25Ghz overclock.

[@PainIsntExist]

Will you do a practical guide - how to apply all this on a Gigabyte Aorus Extreme mod?

[@arabnajjar2330]

Can you talks about safe voltages for Ryzen 3000 , you mentioned in some of your videos that 1.375 is not safe voltage .. and i read that 1.325v is the max safe all cores overclock in prime95 benchmark .. there is no video out there talking about this topic so i think it's s good topic to discuss .

[@juceking]

I have one question and I need help. I bought 16x2gb 3200mhz cl14 (14-14-14-34) for a t-topology board (Z390 aorus pro), will I be able to run this kit at rated speed "3200mhz" on both sticks considering this is a t-top board?

[@rtyzxc]

I'm confused. Does Extreme LLC mean no loadline? Does "heavy" or LLC mean big droop, which should mean same as low LLC? How does this relate to level numbers like 1 to 8, which end is what? Does high LLC vs low LLC mean literally the level of voltage during load? I'm also confused about the purpose. Sure it's good for efficiency, but for overclocking isn't it the worst case to have high idle voltage and have it drop during load when you'd need it the most? On the other hand, increased voltage stability/less spikes should be good thing during load as long as idle voltage isn't too high. Ok, the pinned video kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHjQfWmYbpuGoZo shows it well.

[@isaacx593]

Dont know why am listening since nothing make sense, but is interesting

[@cracklingice]

Something I'm wondering is how does LLC play with integrated voltage regulators such as on HEDT Intel platforms like X99, X299.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

The LLC settings on the X99 and X299 boards are only for the input voltage.

[@cracklingice]

Agreed. Still seems like interesting stuff is gonna happen.

[@kelvinyonger8885]

Didn't you do a piece for GN about LLC?

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

yeah but this one is better.

[@flaviangsm2]

Is there a way to contact you via email or else?

[@neomeg2232]

Alright. Everybody is locked down. I'm a mechanic, so pretty much everybody I know is using this as an excuse to get projects done. I've always kinda thought there was a crazy project right up bzs' alley. Build a motherboard. Lol. Doesn't have to be flat. Use wire as the PCB traces or something. 😆

[@deminybs]

Says the details aren't relevant to the video he's currently doing a video on. mind blown 🤔🤔

[@TillTheLightTakesUs]

You can't explain shit if your life depended on it.

[@cmoney6190]

First