Transitioning to Other Airplanes: A Dangerous Detail

[@rhysdavies8906]

Can we talk about what a great pilot the seller/builder was? He constantly tried to convince this guy to spend more time with him getting familiar with the aircraft, even going to the extent of taking off work to ferry the plane himself and get him proficient. But the buyer couldn't get out of his own way. I sincerely hope the seller doesn't feel any responsibility, as he did everything he could. Must be hard to see something you built with your own two hands destroyed within hours of handing it off...

[@33moneyball]

The most maddening part of these stories is how many pilots ignore advice from those more skilled who are almost pleading with them.

[@Cramblit]

Right? If someone who literally made the plane is telling me "hey you need to get used to this thing" you're a complete idiot to not listen.

[@Raison_d-etre]

Maybe he shouldn't have sold the aircraft without a complete checkout.

[@cw7784]

Pride is a demon that will eat you like IT ate that kid Be humble and set your pride to the side Almost every video on here that this channel has about these fatal crashs all have to do with the fact that they think they know what there doing and are expert's and glowing with pride

[@Raison_d-etre]

@@cw7784 Dosage makes the poison, whether it's pride or humility.

[@avro549B]

Apparent similarities can be absolutely lethal, even more than distinct differences. Sounds, vibrations, even smells, that convey a message in one context may have a very different meaning in another. Being in a situation you know is strange, and consequently alert, may be safer than blissfully operating on unconscious assumptions that are wrong.

[@benjay2985]

Yep a perfect example is the boeing 737-800 pilots who shut down the wrong engine and not the one on fire when they had smoke in the cockpit. They naturally assumed it was i think #1 engine because thats where they believed the Air conditioning Comes from and often smoke in cockpit via the vents means engine fire, But this is where the Air con WAS located on the 737-200 & 400. (Result they shutdown their only good engine.)

[@capt.eastwood2045]

I'm not sure if you are referring to the Kegworth incident--that was a 400 series. The pilots assumed that the smoke in the cabin was coming from the bleed air. They also assumed that the bleed air in the 400 series came from #2. So they shut down #2. The A/C on the 400 series gets bleed air from #1, #2, and the APU. Better CRM may have saved this one...it was obvious from the cabin which engine was malfunctioning. Hard to say what you would do when put into this situation.

[@AviationNut]

+Ben Jay The crash you're talking about happened on Jan 8th 1989, it was a British Midland flt#92, they were flying almost brand new Boeing 737-400 which had only a little over 500 hours on the airframe. It was definitely not the 737-800 series because the 737-800 series entered service in 1998 almost 10 years after the British Midland flt#92 crash.

[@flybobbie1449]

Someone flying a small racing plane pulled the mixture instead of carb heat on final, because the mixture in the aircraft he was flying was where the carb heat was on the one he owned. Could have died when he landed in a field short of the runway and went inverted. Couldn't open the flip to one side canopy.

[@vinci3965]

True for 737 MAX and 737-8

[@Vejitasei]

Binge washing ASI videos (just getting back into the air after time down). Starting flying in 1999. Train and fly in the SEA area (under the Class B), with lots of flights over populated areas and water. My biggest fear use to be getting injured / crippled in a crash. Now (re)watching this video, by biggest concern / fear is how the Father must have felt with his son on board knowing he is going to crash / die...

[@DidivsIvlianvs]

Pilot: (according to family) Seth Lundell, 20, passenger, his father Dr. Mark Lundell, 60, also a pilot. Jacob Lundell, 21 in 2005, Seth's brother also died 6 years earlier while practicing touch and goes.

[@michaelmccarthy4615]

Flying just wasn't in their DNA...

[@SVSky]

Gosh that poor mother. Lost everything to aviation

[@33moneyball]

Criminal level of negligence from the father at that point. You’ve lost a son already and you’re still playing fast and loose.

[@justinb2824]

@@33moneyball Really strange as well, because when the eldest died, the father pulled the body from the wreckage and took it home.

[@fudruckers3916]

@@michaelmccarthy4615 The surviving son is a pilot in the US navy, so not all terrible

[@fdllicks]

as a nonpilot who is addicted to these videos. Its fascinating how experience can be a bad thing!

[@funshootin1]

these are just sad and disturbing , egos and complacency will kill.

[@robinj.9329]

These kind of accidents are so easy to avoid. It's all very sad. I'm sorry for the both of them. But, an important lesson for the rest of us!

[@jefferyyounce5372]

Even going from a Cessna 152 to a 175 was jolt to me.

[@DAN007thefoxx1]

I recently found myself too familiar with the "tapes". I misread an analogue altimeter by 1000 feet higher than I actually was. Luckily I was already well above the ground at that time. So its thousands needle first and then 10's (below 10000 feet)

[@Codehead3]

John Denver put his plane into the Pacific Ocean when he had to reach over his left shoulder to switch fuel tanks and he kicked the right rudder pedal.

[@calvinnickel9995]

That was a design error as well... because the builder did not want to run fuel lines through the cockpit to a more ergonomic fuel selector.

[@MrTeotwawki]

Sure I can fly this plane I know nothing about, let go!

[@jmflyer55]

Like the old pilot saying goes, "There are Old pilots, and there are Bold pilots, but there are NO Old Bold pilots". You're never good enough to refuse a thorough checkout in any unfamiliar airplane. No matter how much time you have!

[@FSEVENMAN]

Everyone's heard that saying and yes it's fun to use but I don't think it applies here this guy wasn't being bold he was just being ignorant... he was stupid....

[@kimano117]

Tex Johnston has entered the chat

[@MongooseTacticool]

I read a good one once: "You start with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before you run out of luck."

[@Straswa]

RIP to the father and son, if only he had taken the seller's offer. Nice vid ASI.

[@TheAtheist22]

I remember, some 15 years ago, I was flying from Teeside airfield (England) and as the aircraft types they had available were different to what I had been flying previously, I wanted a few hours with an instructor to familiarise myself with them. When I said to the CFI that every aeroplane has the same principles of flying but...and a big But, is always different in terms of little quirks and characteristics, he sort of dismissed that idea as not even worth considering. Scary....to hear that from Any pilot....let alone a CFI!!

[@AwesomeAngryBiker]

stop bragging

[@TheAtheist22]

@@AwesomeAngryBiker You don't read properly and so you're totally missing the point of the video and of my comments. Bad attitude pilot. 😒

[@rogerwilco2]

The people with the money to buy airplanes are usually not the patient types.

[@phdtobe]

Who else noticed that the impatient buyer who ended up accidentally killing himself and his son was a doctor (“Dr. [REDACTED]”)?

[@Strathclydegamer]

Specifically a surgeon, a vascular surgeon, notorious for arrogance and bravado.

[@ooo_Kim_Chi_ooo]

Same engine means absolutely NOTHING. The airframe is the critical piece of the puzzle. If you are getting into a new air frame you should spend at least a minimum of 10 hours in it before taking it home by yourself.

[@crooked-halo]

I do not, and am not, blaming the seller one bit. However, I think if I was in his shoes I might have refused the sale after 30 minutes only of training. Especially with the buyer having his son with him along for the ride. In a situation like this perhaps a contract obligating the buyer to a certain number of hours and maneuvers/training items would have been wise. Cirrus obliges SR22 buyers to 10 hours Cirrus Flight Time (6 hours minimum) 10 Cross Country Legs (7 legs minimum) 20 Landings (15 landings minimum) 8 hours Ground Pre/Post Time (No minimum) Pre-Training Assignments must be completed prior to transition training.

[@TRPGpilot]

He is selling an aircraft, not trying to draft a legal contract . . . .

[@crooked-halo]

@@TRPGpilot Yeah, sure, but Cirrus REQUIRES a "legal contract" before buying one of their airplanes. A Cirrus SR-22 is FAR less "serious" than a Radial Rocket, which, as the video explains, is a 400 HP, 2,500 gross weight taildragger which is also a homebuilt Experimental aircraft. The seller/builder wanted FAR more time than the buyer had available to familiarize buyer with the plane. He expressed MANY concerns about the Radial Rocket as compared to a Yak-52. During the HALF HOUR demonstration flight they did not practice slow flight or stalls with the potential buyer and the seller/builder expressed, in a post-flight review, concerns about the Radial Rocket's complex fuel system management, namely, "mixture control and boost pump procedures" and "difficulty reading airspeed and altitude on the (Radial Rocket's) digital instrumentation." So, yes, the seller was simply "selling an aircraft." However, many important items were not addressed sufficiently to allow the new owner/buyer to control the aircraft in a responsible manner. That led to a tragic accident and needless death of father and son. Perhaps something more akin to a "legal contract" (YOUR words) would have been more appropriate.

[@SudrianTales]

@@crooked-halo maybe the pilot should've learned from the death of child 1 yo air crashes

[@robertmetzler9305]

Laminar flow wing very sensitive to stall speed

[@richardweil8813]

Aviate-Navigate-Communicate. Get behind the aircraft and you can quickly get into trouble, and unintentionally losing airspeed is always bad news. It is easy for any of us to criticize after the fact and from the comfort of our homes, and many of us have done more stupid things than we'd like to admit. But still...on the two single seat checkouts I had (both gliders) I read the manuals multiple times and did asked everything I could think of from the instructors before taking a breath and very gently flying flying them. Hurry the process and you are asking for the unexpected.

[@NarutokunJB]

I made the mistake of assuming I knew what to do instead of checking with my instructor early on in my training. Dropped full flaps on downwind in a Samba XL. Next thing I knew I was at 30kts only 1000AGL. He got me to recover and land but hell it was darn scary realizing how close I came to spinning a plane that takes several thousand feet to recover.

[@Strathclydegamer]

Shocking. They lost a son in 2005 too, again in a plane crash. In that incident his son was flying an unregistered plane without a licence and with a student certificate 4 years out of date. The father pulled the body from the wreckage and took it home, arriving at the same time as Police. He was investigated for this but no charges brought. Just astonishing he would maintain such a cavalier attitude after something like that, but then he was a vascular surgeon so likely arrogant.

[@hakapik683]

The Yak and the accident aircraft had the same engines but if you took both engines out of the planes and put them side by side they would not have looked even remotely the same. Only the block, heads might have looked similar, but that all. This pilot had no real experience in a plane like he killed himself in. The Yak is a dump truck compared to the Century Radial Rocket.

[@c7042-u5g]

Aviation law is pityless. Violate it. Penalty is sudden horrible, terrifying, and painful death without lawyers, pardon, or parole. Sometimes you are burned to death.

[@zyrrhos]

The _only_ concerns... I'm not a pilot, but that looks like a slew of concerns.

[@tylerbrown4483]

Not a pilot. I’m still in the learning period of deciding whether to take up GA as a hobby. But I work in nuclear power. If I were to transition to a different plant that was identical to the one I work on in almost every way I’d still have to go through formal recertification of basic operating and emergency procedures for the new plant, with an emphasis on any differences, no matter how minor, down to simple things like switches, buttons, and indications that are in slightly different configuration. It kind of blows my mind that a PPL can legally just hop in a plane they’ve never flown before and take off with no checkout process. Even a requirement to do self-reported basic cockpit poster instrument and control familiarization and side by side comparison of procedures and checklists can go a long way. And it’s free.

[@AwesomeAngryBiker]

why do you need to brag about where you work and what you want to do🙄🙄

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Just from my (limited) experience in "flying go-karts" I can promise you, the better philosophy when looking into a "new" (to you) airplane is to DISMISS the similarities, and FOCUS on those differences. Those little idiosyncrasies are exactly what stack up against you and take you down! Similarities? Who cares? I already know how to deal with what's "the same as my plane"... SO dismiss. That's not interesting. Just the same, it works for cars, forklifts, hydro-static drives, and motorcycles... Do you push one lever forward and yank the other back to make the machine turn? Is reverse a specific slot to push a lever into, or a switch on the side of the steering collumn? Will you notice before you turn on your blinker and crash through the store front in front of you while staring out the back window uselessly??? Is your right or left hand working the throttle on that bike? If it was vintage British or a WWI G.I. it's probably on the left... AND the Brit's were occasionally notorious for running that throttle cable backwards, too... SO you could "roll forward" and accelerate instead of slow down... FUNNZIES!!! ALL motorcycles are self correcting. That's not interesting... Whether I can kick my gear-shift down a gear, or I have to flail around for a lever on the side of the tank (aka "suicide shifter") might be worth knowing before I'm tearing ass down the road at 90 mph... AND it's easy to FORGET when you're "in the moment"... Nah... FOCUS on those differences. The similarities are of little or no concern at all. Most planes (but NOT all of them) will also "self correct"... Meaning with the stick/yoke centered and the pedals left alone, it will return to wing-level, straight flight... BUT there's a reason for the saying "If you can fly a Sopwith Camel, you can fly anything." ;o)

[@puppiesarepower3682]

When digital was a Chrysler VFD automobile display. Oh, and it would "talk" to you as well. 😁

[@bigbrycm6]

Why would you buy a plane with such a complicated manual fuel mixture????

[@Vejitasei]

Bryce Nelson - cause that’s how the plane works. The early Piper Cherokee 6 has a four position / tank fuel selector. It’s often stand practice to run a tank dry before switching.

[@lejink]

Bryce Nelson Not a big deal if you manage it properly If you want a plane that flys itself you’re not a pilot

[@gloomyblackfur399]

@@lejink He was just asking an honest question, no need to be a jerk about it.

[@gloomyblackfur399]

@@Vejitasei The question is why design a plane that is so sensitive to the fuel mixture, constantly requiring extremely careful manual calibration to avoid disaster. It's not the engine, as the pilot's previous plane had such an engine with automatic controls. I suspect it has something to do with cost--build the fastest airplane you can, as cheaply as you can, while safety is ignored.

[@ursodermatt8809]

yes, just imagine you have a bike or car that needs constant manual fuel mixture adjustment

[@1978garfield]

I hope the check cleared.

[@mikepazzree1340]

Doctor

[@arturo468]

Let's go fly an experimental amateur built high performance single engined tail dragger aircraft - what could possibly go wrong. Some people just ask for trouble.

[@aaronlopez3585]

Famous last words.

[@daszieher]

Why is that trouble? The complicated engine control and the abrupt stalling characteristics are what killed here. The aspects that you mentioned had absolutely no impact, except for the high performance, which is often indicative of less forgiving handling.

[@tedwalford7615]

I'm beginning to think that the law should restrict doctors from obtaining pilot licenses.

[@tedwalford7615]

That father had NO RIGHT to endanger his innocent son in that way.

[@michaelchesny656]

Thanks.

[@1978garfield]

The BAMF lettering is a warning sign. I hope the seller was paid cash.

[@2Phast4Rocket]

I fail to understand why people have trouble reading the information in the modern EFIS. It's much more intuitive than the old steam gauges.

[@ying20000818]

It's simple, with steam gauges, you don't have to "read" them. All you have to do is take a glance at the needles and you know all the info you need. It's like reading clocks. With a digital watch, you have to "read" the numbers but with an analogue clock, just by looking at the position of the hands, you can tell the time.

[@Bartonovich52]

@ Mr Meerkat Not true. The reason why they have tapes is so you can see trends. Not only that... but the digits move like old drum rollers _AND_ there’s often a trend vector on the tape. Don’t confuse digital and analog with electronic and mechanical. They made mechanical “digital” and tape displays for aircraft like the F-105 and SR-71 long before electronic instruments. And they are wholly superior. One of the very first instruments changed was the altimeter from a three hand to a single hand with digital drum roller as a result of several crashes where the pilots misread the altimeter by _TEN THOUSAND FEET!!_

[@Raison_d-etre]

So these people are test pilots then?

[@SithLord2066]

Remind me not to ride in an airplane that's being flown by a DOCTOR.

[@badmonkey2222]

I know it's kind of a cliche but there has to be a connection with so many doctors that get themselves killed and kill innocent passengers flying private aircraft thinking they know everything it's just sad

[@TheBeingReal]

Alan Peters money

[@dosvidanyagaming4123]

@@TheBeingReal and lack of time to practice emergency procedures

[@mr.horseshoe2301]

Dr. Mark Lundell. Another son of his died a few years earlier in a plane crash. The Dr. retrieved the body and brought it back home. This guy was a total loon.

[@adotintheshark4848]

The pilot was never comfortable with the aircraft. He should have logged more practice hours. It proves again, the weakest link in aviation isn't the plane, it's who's flying it.

[@stewiegriffin6503]

Doctor again ?

[@doctormcgoveran2194]

I am failing to see the difference between crashing in a factory built plane and in a home built plane.If you have the money and the time to go buy a plane and take a third guy along by all means get a lesson from the seller if he has one to give.

[@XPLAlN]

Probable cause: doctor thought he knew best.

[@scarpaz]

That seems to be unfortunately correct.

[@nimitzpro]

parachutes should be mandatory on experimental and light aircraft in my opinion

[@daszieher]

Glider pilots usually fly with parachutes. It gives a comfortable feeling. CAPS would be better in some cases though.

[@matteframe]

Parachutes only work in limited scenarios. They woukdn't have saved this plane, it was too low.

[@IslandSimPilot]

"Dr.". Says it all.

[@commietube4273]

At this point Doctor…

[@WoutervanTiel]

itis ---- again

[@pneulancer]

Yet another physician/pilot who felt he was invulnerable, omniscient and omnipotent. They are literally walking stereotypes. Hubris will kill.

[@screaminlordbyron7767]

Was he trying to show his son how good a pilot he was. I guess in the end he did!

[@Finn-McCool]

I never fly. Because I never need to. If I ever do need to, I will insist upon a preflight safety briefing, a flight plan, a weather check, aircraft familiarity and survival items. Then I will commence prayer but until then I will never fly because I never need to.

[@cutterbacon]

Similar to johns death.

[@sillygoose6251]

You can't teach common sense.

[@deew7014]

Lots of money combined with God complex , bad combo

[@RobertJamesChinneryH]

Wow you guys must be up there with John Denver....another fool

[@sigbauer9782]

I just hoped the check cleared.

[@DidivsIvlianvs]

Pilot: (according to family) Seth Lundell, 20, passenger, his father Dr. Mark Lundell, 60, also a pilot. Jacob Lundell, 21 in 2005, Seth's brother also died 6 years earlier while practicing touch and goes.