Congratulations on such a detailed and excellent experiment. It certainly gave me ideas that i might test myself. Anyway, thanks for sharing. I just wanted to point that on scenario 3 [20:30] , both lines went clockwise and I'm pretty sure results would be different had one of them gone counter-clockwise [especially the industrial line]. Basically that'd mean more connectivity for the sims. Another thing that crossed my mind is that perhaps line frequency plays a major role here. I see the point of keeping the number of buses constant, but perhaps the better control would be line frequency. The more frequent lines, independently of design, showed more profit throughout the experiment. Likewise, it'd be interesting to analyse the total number of transported pax. Cheers!
@AjaxpostPlays6 жыл бұрын
Hi thank you so much for watching and taking the time to comment. It was a fascinating exercise and I got some good insights into how passenger demand works. But, you're right, in attempting to ensure comparable results I did compromise the efficacy and profitability of some route setups. At the end of the day, yes, for best results you need to keep an eye on how the city develops and where people are travelling to, so much micromanagement potential if you've a mind to. :) I'm also pretty sure that the frequency for in-town routes is as important as on longer routes, I followed a number of sims as they made their journeys and some odd decisions were made which I've no doubt were to do with the line frequency rather than how soon the next bus would actually arrive.
@AndreasEUR5 жыл бұрын
Sorry, but I don't think catchment area works like you assume. A character will walk if it's faster to do so than to take the bus, even if inside catchment area. If it's faster for a resident to jump in their car, and drive to London, they will not use your train even if inside the catchment area. They would have to walk to the train, then take the train, then walk to where they are going. I think that each citizen has 4 options, and they choose between fast one and cheap. They know what house they live in, where they work, and where they shop. If it's faster to walk from where they live to where they work, they will not use your bus/tram/train/boat/airplane. This is what I've seen from the short time I've played. A player on steam forums suggested that forget catchment areas. After you have set up your routes, look at citzens driving for example. You can see where they live and where they are going to. By looking at this you might find out why they are not using your lines. Taking the car as I said might be faster, even if the bus goes there eventually.
@AjaxpostPlays5 жыл бұрын
Hi, thank you for taking the time to watch and comment, much appreciated. However, I'm not sure if the catchment area mechanics would directly influence the results of this experiment, I am attempting a very specific test here; to find a bus route configuration that is most likely to yield a good return on investment, regardless of the actual AI process. In the follow-up experiment I ran, following on from the comments made on this one, I do pay more attention to how and where the citizens are travelling and, you're absolutely right, that is very valuable information in determining where to set your stops and routes. I have followed a traveller, I think it was in the Xmas special ride-along I did for the One Hub series, and he does actually appear to change his mind; initially heading to the bus stop but then changing his mind and walking to the destination. There are, clearly, all sorts of decision making points in each journey - which doubtless accounts for late game performance issues. So unless we want to be really specific I think it still works to assume that a stop in the industrial area will serve citizens travelling to and from work and likewise in commercial areas those going to and from shops. Once you've got that basic routing set up you can then fine tune it according to the AI traffic you see in order to provide better faster/cheaper options to the key destinations of those citizens not currently using your lines.
@migsbro6 жыл бұрын
To get good/excellent you only need one bus line that goes from one of your towns to the next, all the way to your last town, one big line there and back with about 4-5 stops per town. Took a few weeks of trials to work that one out =P, also use trams, lower running costs
@AjaxpostPlays6 жыл бұрын
Hi Mike, thanks for taking the time to comment. You're right that intercity bus routes are very lucrative, though I don't normally have them run between more than two towns - I'll have to try that out. The purpose of these tests was just to look at how it might be possible to make money from local services. I haven't really looked at trams, I got frustrated by how slow they were in Train Fever so have tended to use them in only very specific situations - perhaps I should give try them more widely. :)
@absentia61646 жыл бұрын
I know I'm late to this video, but I tend to maximise body count over profit, I see bus routes as a means to an end, any profit is just a bonus, in the early game primarily to make sure that the passenger stations have as many passengers as possible, the same in the mid to late game but with the added effect of insuring the minimum amount of traffic that may cause congestion for trucks as well as buses, although I've never put it to the test myself, it still typically makes a profit although a minor one, but I do believe that the benefit to the passenger train as well as trucks more than makes up for this. This all said I'm not exactly a Guru when it comes to the mechanics of the game, but from my personal experience this seems to hold true, but it does typically end up with a complicated bus system, combining both indirect and direct lines as well as connecting lines in a single town, which is how I stumbled onto this video, was hoping to find a simpler method of doing it, although the video wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but it still was interesting and informative. And sorry for the long comment.
@AjaxpostPlays6 жыл бұрын
Hi, thank you for watching and, especially, commenting. I do agree that the most important job of local bus services is to get passengers to the main inter-city transport options, be it train, plane, or even ship which should always be making the big bucks. That said, it should be possible for these bus lines to also make money or, at least, operate at a minimal loss. Likewise, the dynamics of city growth mean that the bus lines do need a fair amount of micro-management to ensure they're picking up as many people as possible to keep the city streets moving freely. It can be useful to follow a few individual sims to see how they navigate your network to get to their destinations. I think we're all looking for that 'simple' method of setting up in-city routes but I doubt a single methodology actually exists. Which is a good thing, since it means the game is keeping us challenged and entertained. And, finally, never worry about long comments - I love to ramble on anyway and love to get a good, detailed, response to my videos, especially when they stimulate discussion on the pros and cons of ways of doing things. Cheers! :)
@jockeril6 жыл бұрын
Please read all of it, Firstly, This is a good comparison, so thank you for that - It has given me something to think about - I thought the round and back is not very good, but consider my next point: Secondly, I am going to watch the next one you made about this, but I feel I must point out that you didn't take into consideration that the "sims" favor a faster route or a cheaper route - so you missed on this point in your comparison. Now I'm going to watch the second one and see if you addressed that it there. Thirdly, you should re-visit the testing now that another patch came out that also improves pathing again ( I think)
@AjaxpostPlays6 жыл бұрын
First off, thank you for taking the time to watch and comment. It was fascinating trying to work out if there was a system to how the sims travel choices were decided that could be exploited for profit. You are right I did not take into consideration the fast/cheap preference and, if I recall correctly, didn't in the update video either (but I might be wrong!) To be honest, it simply didn't occur to me that this preference could be used *within* a city, I certainly use it for inter-city travel and it can be very profitable. However, you have given me food for thought, I don't know if the new patch will impact much on intra-city routes but it could be interesting to see if the fast/cheap preference could be used on inner city routes. Watch this space! And thank you, again.
@havan567 жыл бұрын
Interesting comparison. But being an ex New Yorker I gotta ask... What about a variant on scenario 4 that features an express and a local?
@AjaxpostPlays7 жыл бұрын
Hi, thanks for taking the time to watch the video Stephen. Though I'm not quite sure I understand your question. :( Are you thinking of express and local routes going to different stops or having two lines going to the same endpoints but one (more or less) direct and one stopping at frequently en-route?
@michaspier84827 жыл бұрын
Interesting! Definitely gonna try it out! Thank you for this.
@AjaxpostPlays7 жыл бұрын
Thank you. There's plenty of variables at play in these cities and I'm beginning to think that these 'rules' may work best in large cities with distinct and quite separate land use areas but it is most definitely worth trying out different techniques. Good luck!
@michaspier84827 жыл бұрын
Shared your movie on the Transport Fever Nation Page @ Facebook. And gave you a follow!
@AjaxpostPlays7 жыл бұрын
Thank you. :)
@robbleeker47776 жыл бұрын
Thanks, just got myself the map
@AjaxpostPlays6 жыл бұрын
You're welcome. There weren't many good UK maps around when I did this video, but in recent months there have been a whole of lot of really good detailed maps of different UK regions added to the Steam workshop. If only I had the time to play them all! :)
@jjjez7 жыл бұрын
But aren't two line running clockwise and anticlockwise in fact two lines not one. To total the routes into one gives the impression that it competes with others but really it only does hen you rework them as one entity. It's two lines versus one.
@AjaxpostPlays7 жыл бұрын
Hi, thank you for taking the time to comment, it's much appreciated. I'm not sure if I entirely understand your point but ... yes, the first two route setups are much the same in coverage but I think the order in which the land use areas are visited has a distinct effect on profits. Although I didn't follow this through in great detail it could be possible to fine tune the capacity (and costs) of the lines to better match the demand and so get the results you're after. At the end of the day it comes down to how much micro-managing you want to do to get every last penny of profit. You may also be interested in the new set of results I have recently posted to the Steam Guide.
@AndreasEUR5 жыл бұрын
I'm gonna stop watching at 19 minutes, I think the basis for the experiment is wrong, ie assuming that catchment area works as you seem to think in the video..
@AjaxpostPlays5 жыл бұрын
Ahh, you missed the best bits, where I do find a route set up that yields good profits, quickly! As mentioned in my other (much longer!) reply, I'm attempting to create a controlled experiment that might expose some basic ideas about routing but, as has been said, there are many things that influence passenger decisions and, more complex solutions, more responsive to the actual situation in a town should generate better profits. Some of these configurations, using ideas posted in the comments to this simple experiment, are explored in the follow-up video.
@yelnaw6 жыл бұрын
Lovely video mate, rather helpful. You sound very canny!