Traveller: Part 6 - Space Combat

[@SSkorkowsky]

Correction: Weapon power requirements appear in the Ship Operations section (pg.144). My bad.

[@richmcgee434]

Hmmm, thoughts: Assume a ship with a zero thrust rating (likely due to damage) can't oppose a docking attempt? Do they need to spend a thrust as a reaction to oppose? The SRD says that a non-Smart missile does use the gunner's skill check to determine the chance of a hit when it arrives on target, with the effect resulting in the (dumb?) missile needing anything from 11+ to 6+ to hit. Smart missiles always need an 8+ (the equivalent of a dumb missile launch with a 0 success by the gunner, so not great) but keep trying to hit turn after turn after turn, which might explain why missiles that have been in flight gradually suffer attrition. It's not just long range flight times, it could be multiple misses that lead to them running out of fuel. They really dropped sand as a missile point defense in this edition? That's just silly. They were always better against energy weapons, but at least sometimes stopped incoming missiles too. And they've even acknowledged that they can shotgun boarders, so we know full well the sand is travelling at speeds that should damage inbound missiles. EDIT: And the SRD says you can even attack ships for damage 1 at Close range. Pointless against armor, but again, why can't they kill missiles? The crit chart and the way severity increases on it is pretty familiar, Mongoose lifted the core mechanics from the A Call To Arms starship minis games - B5 and Noble Armada both had similar charts. FWIW, any extra damage caused by a crit in those games didn't have a chance to cause more crits no matter how much hull was lost. OTOH the game systems are very different from Traveller, so maybe that's not a viable fix. You've probably seen this already, but the old boardgames Snapshot and Azhanti High Lightning were specifically about boarding actions. Snapshot's probably the more useful for roleplaying as it dealt with smaller "adventurer size" ships (versus a capital ship in AHL with dozens of decks) and IIRC it had some rules for the RPG. If nothing else the deck plans from older editions should still be perfectly usable for modern games. Plenty of online resources for that sort of thing, just google "Traveller deck plans" for ex: traveller.chromeblack.com/beispiel-seite/deckplans/

[@VitorRedes]

Yeah yeah all it's good and everything but if I was a universal ruler or something you would be uploading 1x per day minimum sir. Your videos are amazing, thanks.

[@RichardKurbis]

for boarding, you'll have to go to SNAPSHOT rules, thats original GDW Traveller rules. Snub pistols are what people use to keep safe perimeters in having hull breech mishaps.

[@JohnSmith-qq7fm]

Damn right, your bad! How dare you release inaccurate information on the Internet? What kind of inhuman monster are you? :P

[@richmcgee434]

@@JohnSmith-qq7fm Pretty sure he's a serpent man, but until he spills hot coffee on himself on camera I guess we'll never know. Could be one of the masques of Nyarlathotep instead...

[@ricksherman34]

Seth, I've been playing Traveller for 40+ years , and I use your videos to let my players get caught up on some of the more challenging aspects of the game [ And they're great reference for me as well ! ] I appreciate all you do for the Traveller game and the care and attention that you give it. - Rick.

[@SSkorkowsky]

Wow! Thank yo very much Rick. That means a lot. Happy to help. Traveller is such a cool game and I love knowing I'm helping other gamers discover and enjoy it.

[@mikebrines5708]

Play LOTS of Traveller. When we do boarding actions we just use the regular combat rules. As to damaging a ship, remember, 1/10 the normal damage does damage to the ship and any time you miss a shot inside it's gotta hit the ship, so just roll damage and apply 1/10 as hull damage. God help you if you use grenades or heavy weapons that might score a critical hit.

[@frankbath3482]

I agree with you @mikebrines5708, you'd be hard-pressed to breach the hull. However, behind all the flimsy wall panelling in the ship are the conduits running the wiring that connects the bridge to every other system. Severing any of those and the ship will be hard to control, especially during a boarding action. I think it would be pretty easy to put together a table of suitable bad things when shots have very low effects.

[@karlheilmann9172]

@@frankbath3482 Though it's been 2 years since you posted on this, I am on my second time watching this video and this part stood out to me this time. I almost feel like the Referee should take a bit of an "I told you so" approach to anyone determined to use normal yield weapons inside of a spaceship (ie: On a miss, as noted above, the ship is automatically hit and the Referee immediately applies a crit to a system that could conceivably be damaged in the location of the fight - a drive crit from a miss/hit in a stateroom may not make sense). I see Seth's point about the game having a rule and chart for something like that, but house ruling it can also be fun to develop as a Referee.

[@leos.2322]

@@karlheilmann9172 Not a big fan of "told you so" approaches, especially because they're pretty adversarial and sometimes, many times, breach logic. I'd probably apply a luck roll for that(an optional stat in the traveller companion) to make this less arbitrary. Ofc modifying it by how hazardous of a place they're shooting in. Shooting in the cargo hold is way less dangerous than opening fire inside the bridge where all the computers and large windows are

[@BeerMatt96]

There was a great article in White Dwarf back in the day (back when it had Thrud the Barbarian and The Travellers comic strips, and before it became the Games Workshop product brochure), all about boarding operations in Traveller. It was light on rules, but the atmospheric commentary was amazing: using fake airlocks, environmental controls and zoning to make it really hard to get a bridgehead on a hostile craft - as opposed to lining up in corridor doorways and waiting for Imperial Stormtroopers to cut their way in. It was a fantastic read.

[@BeerMatt96]

White Dwarf #60 - Boarding Stations. Amazed I found that!

[@richmcgee434]

Sigh. I miss the good old days when White Dwarf wasn't a pure house organ.

[@davidbrennan660]

Boarding could get troublesome if you used their ideas, also making Imperial Storm Troopers real mean was good.

[@ctdaniels7049]

Fake airlocks sounds hilarious. Sir, they've raided the pantry!

[@ledlogic2]

@@BeerMatt96 Does anyone know where to get a copy of this in 2022?

[@robertsalvia4406]

Really nice to have the video timeline broken up into easily referenced sections, nice touch

[@SSkorkowsky]

Thanks. One cool viewer told me how to today and I like it a lot.

[@dinisnascimento4929]

Currently wearing my Scott Brown t-shirt

[@PaulGaither]

Hands in the air!

[@jayteegamble]

I got a showing!!

[@TARMHeLL]

I have a showing tomorrow, but it's my parents house, so maybe I shouldn't gun them down, but I'll call my dad a motherfucker.

[@SkullDixon]

Traveller seems like the type of game where players should taking on some GM tasks to lessen the burden the GM has to handle. So like in space Combat. A player who tracks al the Thurst and whatnot can be tracked by a player so that the Gm doesn't have to.

[@youmukonpaku3168]

that's how my group has always done it. I sometimes even got people to help roll up systems when we weren't using travellermap.

[@crowhaveninc.2103]

I think so too. The core rulebook also comes with plenty of useful tables and such that can make that task a lot easier for your players

[@jfridy]

If you want some old school Traveler spaceships and boarding, they actually had it in the old 1970s version in two small boxed supplements. Mayday: the ship combat system, has inertial movement, basically your current speed and course is where you go next turn, but you can adjust it with your thrust. It actually works pretty well, and is pretty playable. Snapshot: the shipboard combat system. It's a slightly more streamlined version of the general combat system, with deck plans. Both are available on the used market, and were printed (You don't need any specialized counters, just a map and markers for ships,) in Traveler: The Games, from Far Future Enterprises. They did reprints of the old games before Mongoose got the rights.

[@LHEli]

Last time I was this early they still spoke vilani in the imperium...

[@tilasole3252]

I don't get it. I understand the franchise, but not the reference.

[@shadowwalker117]

I love your house rules and will be using them when I start my own Traveller campaign. The only thing I might add is a modification to the maneuver phase: Ships will act in ascending order of initiative in the maneuver phase only, that way the ships with better initiative can react to the slower initiative ships' actions and have the upper hand in placement/location.

[@glenagalt]

They took their time, and it's outside the scope of what you were supplied to review, but I'm pleased to report dat dem Mongoose Boyz finally came through. The 2022 Update to High Guard significantly beefed up the detail on boarding actions. It is basically personal combat with extra flavour, but pretty good flavour. We get... More detail on methods of forced entry- gear needed and time taken. Hacking options Two extra rules for ranged weapon use: "Stacking" (firing into or through groups) and...the one we all wanted, what happens to missed shots..and what might get damaged. They even included grenades, for the terminally enthusiastic. I was about to confidently type about "why blades are bad news if you're wearing a vacc-suit" because I remember reading that table recently too...but double checked, and am glad I did. Those details do exist in a recent acquisition of mine- but it's not High Guard 2022. It's in the 2018 edition of the Companion at the bottom of p64, so all the gory details are in print....but you have to put your hand in your pocket again if you don't already have the Companion.

[@kevingriffith6011]

Honestly I think they were in kind of a tough spot for boarding actions in a similar way that Shadowrun was in a tough spot for deckers in earlier editions: you run the real risk of turning the game into a 1 on 1 between one player (the one boarding) and the GM while everyone else waits, especially when you take the 6 minute ship round vs the 6 second personal round into account. Now, if one player is running a boarding *team*, then there's no problem, you have a handful of marine NPCs that the PCs can play as during the boarding action, and every 10 rounds inside the ship the players in ship-to-ship combat get to do their round and cause something dramatic to happen inside... but a lone saboteur could be a real problem. Now as long as the one boarding is dealing with ship systems like opening doors with breaching charges or some other mechanical knowhow then you can have those actions take roughly as long as the ship-to-ship turns, but the second they have to fight ship's security teams or internal security systems then things get hairy.

[@joeltarnabene5026]

You raise a valid concern, for sure, but I'm not entirely sure that this is a frequent problem, since when a side in a fight has boarded the other the rest of the ships will naturally stop firing since both sides have live men on that ship, giving time for the whole crew to participate in at least the defence of a ship, if not the attack of another. If the ship concerns only two ship the natural thing would be for both ships to stop firing once boarding has begun, since destroying another ship at that range would probably blow a big hole in your own ship. The most pressing matter in such a situation for both sides is to win the boarding fight. For when this is not enough there are ways to set up the game to prevent those situations from arising. You could easily warn the players before beginning the campaign and let them prepare by buying an AI pilot/comms program to keep watch on board while they all join a boarding party. It's also not uncommon for players to take on crew members to fill gaps in their skill set. Those crew members could take up responsibilities on the ship while the PCs fight, but they can also be used as backup character if a PC should die or as a stand-in when a players character is out of action or stuck with duties at the helm of the ship. You could also incorporate ways for a sensor/comms operator stuck at the helm to actually help with Tactical/Leadership rolls during boarding fights. The PCs could even buy small helmet cameras to help this commander with visual feedback and place trackers in the Vacc suits and then using sensors to get an overview of the fight. I'm sure there are more ways to work around this problem but those are just some off the top of my head.

[@kevinallen4743]

@Maximillian Wylde If you have an NPC Asimovian droid co-pilot the pilot gets to go too since sending a droid that will do nothing by action or inaction endanger an organic would make sending them in the boarding party mute. Just don't press the droid activator until you leave the ship though or it will protect you by not letting you go.

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

Maybe it's just me, but isn't this also basically how Dogfight rules are? Small ships are working on 6 seconds whereas ships are running on 6 minutes, so if you got fighters in the air alongside a more conventual ship, you're looking at six 'rounds' before the big ship gets to act again?

[@docartemis2878]

Huzzah, more seth!

[@mythrandil5600]

I'll point out that "We figured that since the damage came from the critical hit that just happened to the hull, we'd just increase the severity of the critical hit" is actually a houserule (nothing in RAW supports this), so your houserule to roll again on the critical hit location table is actually just RAW

[@caiuswickersham]

I was going to comment that Seth's "house rule" was actually how I understood the rule as well. It helps that certain critical hits include a "increase Hull Severity" effect so as I understood it, the immediate damage happens and then roll the damage from the Hull cracking open as a secondary. That way, you can still have the cascade effect if the dice go your way.

[@theobstinategentleman4094]

This is one of the reasons why I prefer first edition Mongoose over 2nd edition. They take the same information but spread it out over multiple books to get you to buy them. For example, in Traveller first edition there were five alien races in the core rulebook.. In second, you only get two and they spread it out into another book. That kind of stuff just irks me especially when it's nothing new. Still all the same love your videos and I finally got some extra time in my games to try and run Traveller again.

[@pablohammerly448]

@The Obstinate Gentleman: I know MgT 2e includes the Aslan and Vargr. Who are the other three alien races included in 1e? 🤓

[@HeadHunterSix]

@@pablohammerly448 probably Droyne, Zhodani and K'kree, but I'm just guessing.

[@ADiceySituation]

Biggest issue with Traveller, definitely the stuff that gets alluded to being in another book. Not to mention the fact that the core book is generally really uncoordinated. Why is the Prisoner career in the same chapter with Aslan's and Vargrs, for instance?

[@tirirana]

What I found really annoying and borderline inexcusable, is that they also lied about the content of the books. High Guard was supposed to have advanced boarding rules and just didn't. The Companion was supposed to have many new races and options to make your own or customise races and just didn't.

[@kevinm3428]

I would love to revisit this game; I played it in the late 70's and it was brutal, but fun!

[@Tony-dh7mz]

5:55 Wait wait wait, you're doin it all wrong, To shoot at people ya use missiles, the blast radius, you can't miss, FLASHBACK Me with my Scout ship on a desert planet with insidious atmosphere, (eats anything away given long enough) Sitting in my cockpit assessing how long exposer time I have, when a group of people in battledress crested a dune in front of my ship, they had plasma gun (noticed i said "they had"?, yes its going places) if you didn't know plasma gun can do a number on a space ship, (That would be the number "2" btw) so i armed me a missile and let rip, The blast radius made it an easy hit, and anyone that survived that blast, didn't last long in that atmosphere, after their armor had been compromised, The gm was p-ssed, he had planned a long fight....

[@OriginalWarwood]

The key to not getting upset as a DM/GM is to not have the solution to the problems you present. It's not your job as the Story Teller to solve the problem, only to present it.

[@Tony-dh7mz]

@@OriginalWarwood I wasn't running, i was actually playing,

[@Tony-dh7mz]

@667Gullin Yeah, in the old days that’s like 15-16D damage range

[@wardkerr2456]

Yeah, we had a ref like that. He was always a little upset when we would escape a fight with all of our limbs attached. He love old school Call of Cthulhu of course.

[@HeadHunterSix]

It's an incredibly expensive solution, though - a single missile costs more than a PGHP-12 plasma gun.

[@MrJormun]

In the space opera anime " Legend of galactic heroes " they used some sort of gas particle against boarding actions, that would ignite and explode anyone firing a laser weapon. so they used halberds and crossbows

[@ReustersPlace]

Thank You for this... i’ve wanted this video since you started

[@SSkorkowsky]

Hope you found it helpful enough to have been worth the wait.

[@ReustersPlace]

Seth Skorkowsky as usual... it is very helpful

[@nordicmaelstrom4714]

Oh crap! Seth that Jack cut scene about targeting a single person with a laser almost made me fall out of my chair laughing! That was a good one hah!

[@capnahayes]

I loved "God's Shotgun" too.

[@AeonVoom]

+1 for the deathblossom reference.

[@richmcgee434]

So dizzy...Endurance check to avoid throwing up after use. :)

[@hDansRandomCrud]

Re: cascading criticals, the way I intended to play is is that a single crit roll that causes another crit cannot cause a crit of the same type. So if you roll "Hull" for the second critical, re-roll. If you still managed to cascade into further crit rolls, then the previous TWO crits are now unavailable, etc. I feel like this simulates "hitting something important". Like you suggest - Hull damage causes a fuel leak, or knocks loose a coolant feed for the power plant, etc. I'm really loving this series, btw. Thanks for doing this.

[@tilasole3252]

The more I watch these, the more I know I will never actually play these games. However, the more I want to watch the other videos. 😅

[@NefariousKoel]

There's a freebie user-created chart to help with space combat ranges and movement. It's really simple and has all you need to keep track. Just a grid of numbers for moving an enemy ship chit down the spaces with the Thrust and Range values listed in each. It's called the Traveller Space Combat Chart.

[@psbates]

I just bought the Core Rulebook. The 2022 Updated book says that once two ships are in dogfighting range, all combat shifts to the 6-second combat round. So, boarding actions should be at normal, personal-scale combat speed. Which means your non-essential characters can rush to the airlock to engage in repelling boarders, while your pilot and gunners keep maneuvering and taking shots at nearby ships.

[@arcaciustrell8756]

4:30 I would like to point out that power requirements for weapons and turrets are listed on page 144 of the core book.

[@SSkorkowsky]

Ah, there it is. Why the hell was that not in the Combat section?

[@arcaciustrell8756]

@@SSkorkowsky I don't know, but that chart also lists the power for the particle beam, despite it only being described on page 67-68 of high guard

[@SSkorkowsky]

Well crap. Not only did I miss this chart until you brought it to my attention, I also missed the particle beam listing once you pointed me toward it. I might need to hire you as my Fact-Checker/Continuity Advisor. I suppose we can just say that the particle beam info is a teaser for Highguard or something. I dunno.

[@arcaciustrell8756]

@@SSkorkowsky I've only noticed things like that because I've read the book basically front to back a dozen times over the last few months preparing for my first game (we have only done character creation and 2 more sessions.) But another thing that may be missed is on pg 150 of the core book it lists different sensors, but high guard doesnt list Visual, Thermal, or EM as options on sensors. While the core books says all sensors get thermal and visual, EM does not show up.

[@pablohammerly448]

@@arcaciustrell8756 Maybe EM sensors are only available on military ships and automatically included in military sensors. 🤔

[@tabletopgamingwithwolfphototec]

I'm enjoying rewatching these.

[@MrChupacabra555]

Really enjoying this series ^_^ Like many out there, Traveller was my second RPG, and first Sci-Fi RPG (and still my favorite, even though I don't play anywhere near as often as I used to back in the day). After seeing your review of the Traveller stuff, I would love to hear what you think about Paizo's entry into Science-Fiction/Fantasy: "Starfinder" (I still pick up rules sets, mostly in .pdf form, just as 'light reading material').

[@TheMtotheF]

Love this video, and when Seth talks about the sort of space combat he expects to see, he says it's very rare to see players get engaged in combat in small ships. So what are small ship battles like? Our crew had both a salvaging ship and a cargo ship at 400 tons With an average of 1.5 ranged weapons per ship we had no business taking on two gun boats at 300 tons. the salvager had a small fighter in its cargo hold, so one of our pirate crew got the order to fire it up and go kick their asses. The stowed fighter Zips out of the cargo bay doors and immediately rolls highest for dog fighting. But even a plus two advantage to our dice modifier and a Thrust of 6 split between attacking and evading wouldn't matter when we did next to little damage against the enemy ships, who in turn decimated our small fighter with pulse lasers on a roll of box cars. Lost a member of the crew to the explosion and had to surrender the salvage ship. During the ensuing shenanigans we may have avoided capture not to mention tpk, but the big disparities in weapon output and hull strength between a very between a very small ship and a very medium-sized ship were made all too clear.

[@gwionthemighty3892]

I have been waiting for this episode!

[@thefool4407]

Keep making these videos Seth! Love ya man!

[@karlheilmann9172]

Three years later, I have watched the entire series (10) and some more than once. I have to say thanks for doing this series! I think it also spawned some creations for Mongoose Traveller (tm) at some time after you mentioned stuff in various videos.

[@gogglebobb]

I found this series yesterday and immediately began watching all of this series. Lol I can't wait to try this out with my players. I think it could make a great episodic side campaign for busy weeks when all of our players can't get together for our main D&D campaign. I managed to track down the book on ebay! I can't wait for the rest of the videos in this series. Thank you so much for the detailed breakdown. You're a great teacher!

[@jasonrobertson9618]

I'm actually in the middle of planning out a video game I want to make about space combat and this has given me so many ideas for how it should work under the hood... and it makes me want to play Traveller all the more. I'll have to pitch it to my group again...

[@marktownsend2198]

Loving this series. Thanks for all the help to a newbie like me just picking up the system.

[@edlaprade]

Thanks loads for this. A really good, thorough explanation of what's what in Traveller space combat. It is fairly simple, but in the heat of the moment it can seem rather complicated. Hope you are doing well, and stay safe!

[@timnewman7591]

There was a Mongoose kickstarter a year or so back for a miniatures game of space boarding actions. I suspect that if they had that on their future plans, it explains why they didn't provide more detail in the core rules or High Guard. It's possible they've plans to bring it back (the kickstarter was cancelled, it didn't look like it was going to make its target) but it's certainly a place where the rules are lacking.

[@richmcgee434]

Talking about Vanguard? I think it's dead in the water at this point. They started and then killed the KS back in 2018 once it became clear it wasn't going to fund. www.kickstarter.com/projects/1990654819/vanguard-boarding-actions-in-the-fifth-frontier-wa/description

[@leshowie5152]

Back when I picked up the LBBs way back when, and when the first deck plans came out, a boarding action was just an instance of using the combat rules using the deck plans as a map. Sort of like a dungeon crawl, except sometimes you're the monsters. I think you have a point on what can happen if you miss a shot in the control room: house rule time. I am sold on this edition. It has stayed faithful to the original feel while brining together some of the better new ideas and making it all consistent. I will be sending the players to this series for their intro; a real time saver for me.

[@seawurm]

I really can't thank you enough for explaining the TRAVELER RPG. I have been on the edge of trying to play the game for a couple of years now.

[@fernandomercado2711]

Thank you Seth!! Bought Classic Traveller thanks to the videos and the wonderful community. (Cheaper to dip my toes into it and see if the people want to play it). I’m already excited and the videos have helped a lot even if they’re different editions.

[@joeltarnabene5026]

If you want a game closer to Mongoose you can always download Cepheus engine. It's based on the first edition of Mongoose and is free online. i.4pcdn.org/tg/1472219595188.pdf

[@fernandomercado2711]

Joel Tarnabene oh yeah, I ordered Cepheus light last week. Should be arriving soon.

[@SorryBones]

These videos are great - I'm planning on running my group's first Traveller session sometime when the stars align and we all have free time, pun intended. This helps immensely in understanding the basics. Looking forward to every one!

[@vicmarriott4849]

Your Reviews are Great, these Traveller ones make it even Better, I have watched many how to play Traveller Videos, and yours are the Best. They have inspired me to start playing again. I enjoy CT, though your reviews of MgT2 have peak an interest in it. You might consider looking up some of the original CT adventures for your campaign.

[@SSkorkowsky]

Thanks. I've run a couple of the originals so far (Annic Nova and Murder on Arcturus Station) I hope to run Death Station and Twilight's Peak eventually. Despite any complaints I have about MGT2, I really love the system. I've tried getting other space scifi games off the ground before (going back to Star Frontiers) but until Traveller, none of them lasted past a couple sessions if they even made it that far.

[@randycrockett9758]

I picked up your audio book ‘Damoren’ and loved it. So I picked up the rest in the series. Any chance you might one day write a Traveller novel?

[@andrewmcdonald6497]

Thank you Seth. Really appreciating this series and look forward to each new episode. Having read through MGT2 and compiling copious notes your summary is a great way to check I'm on the right track before launching our first game. Also a great tool for teaching new players.

[@tilasole3252]

4:56 who uses life support!? Babies, that's who! Now crank the power up to everything else, Carl and let's show these space punks who's the boss!

[@joshuachilton4154]

Thank you for the reviews. Looking forward to the next!

[@pedrodelarastockler3919]

I love these videos of yours man. I don't even play Traveler, but to listen about it gives me so much inspiration and basis of reference that I can use on my own futuristic RPG games (in this case Star Wars). Keep it up man! 😁

[@procrastinatinggamer]

The mention of expending more thrust to slow down reminds me - the new version of the Traveller Companion has vector thrust rules in there for both playing out space battles on a grid map (square or hex grid, they cover both) and simulating Newtonian flight physics. It gets a little fiddly when it comes to missiles, but it’s a surprisingly elegant and simple way to track what’s normally a very complex game mechanic.

[@jamesjacobi9044]

Seth - thanks for this excellent summary of these rules. I am generally a fan on Mong2Trav but I preferred the space combat in mongoose 1st edition. It was a really nice system and I have no idea why they changed it. As you say the key is to make sure everybody has something to do and give modifiers to the gunners/pilot etc.

[@jameslowery4671]

I think this is one of the best reviews of mongoose Traveller...well done,and thorough. I hope to see you review more systems....like Mutants and Masterminds would be cool...keep up the good work.

[@richmcgee434]

The critical hit chart with its accumulating severity and multiple location tracks is obviously derived from the crit mechanics in their earlier A Call To Arms games - B5, Noble Armada, and whatever the wet navy rules were called. Traveller's has more potential things to be hit (the others only have six rows) but other than that it looks almost identical.

[@billharm6006]

I started Traveller with the "Little Black Books" and collected several add-on modules. The add-ons would be useful starting references for adding details that seem missing at present. Some examples resources: Mayday: Ship to ship combat. This included a vector-based system that addresses the inertia question. While I liked it, many players felt that the game bogged down. Snap Shot: This module was all about personal combat, especially in confined spaces such as a space ship. Very playable. Trillion Credit Squadron: Big fleet actions. Better for people who like to plan a lot. Difficult to employ within the bounds of an RPG. There was also a module for asteroid mining (wish I could recall the exact name... I have it, but it isn't at hand). I went back and looked at it after "The Expanse" showed up. Hmmm. I could make a case that the show writers dabbled with this game (but the protomolecule is new). Brilliant Lances: Another ship-to-ship combat module. I have a copy, but never found someone to play it with, so I really cannot comment on playability. (rule reading and play can leave very different impressions) In Mark Miller's "Traveller 5" he expands on some of these topics. However, he has changed up the game mechanics considerably, so adapting the ideas across to Mongoose Traveller is not drop-dead easy. So if some enterprising soul wants to throw a proposal at Mongoose, the above-named modules could give a writer a running start.

[@richmcgee434]

Asteroid miners are "belters" and the term predates Traveller in scifi as much as Traveller predates the Expanse. There was an unrelated GDW boardgame of the same name (darned good one, too) but I'm guessing you're thinking of Beltstrike? Brilliant Lances had a cousin/sequel game called Battle Rider that covered squadron/fleet scale combat, kind of like the LBB books had the original small-scale starship rules and then High Guard/Trillion Credit Squadron.

[@jeffbelke6189]

Thank god. My group has been wanting to play Traveller, and I've got everything else down, but I really didn't want to sort through all this bullshit on my own. So much nicer to have a video to follow along with.

[@Aingvar]

So for the boarding actions I'd say it might be good to use a degree of failure, artificial gravity and life support are everywhere in the ship so if you miss someone you run the risk of damaging the systems depending on how badly you miss, creating fluctuations in the grav plating, or venting the atmosphere in that portion of the ship. Atmospheric loss could be prevented with vac suits, but no one likes dealing with oscillating levels of gravity, which can do everything from high g effects to adding to difficulty of a shot because of gravitational variation, you could even have someone roll every time they moved to a new square or hex to see what the gravity is on that grav plate. That being said the negatives would mostly apply to ballistic and melee weapons. But perhaps if we make it so that energy weapons deal bonus damage to the systems that would also add an additional risk factor their usage. Similarly I feel like the systems that risk damage should be somewhat location based. For instance, a fight in the bridge might risk the sensors or the pilots seat, resulting in a negative DM to pilot checks until it's fixed or even disabling it, or a fight near the engine room where you might start a reactor failure, which would be equally bad for everyone on board. I like the idea of consequences that are bad for everyone. The ship blowing up, or losing control of it's ability to move, or random grave plating issues are examples of things that could dissuade both attackers and defenders from risking a wildcard in combat. For the hp of the system from the inside of the ship my best idea so far has been multiplying the hull points by 5(as opposed to 10 since they are on the inside of the ship) and dividing that among the systems in the ship. I'm not sure how to solve the walls as cover, I feel like they would provide at least 6 protection for the most part. But maybe also add HP to them? That way they can be destroyed throughout the battle if advanced weapons are used. I feel like the hull of a ship is going to be hard to damage, even from the inside. So I would probably yield that to things like plasma cannons, rocket launchers, or anything with an AP over 10. This is still pretty nebulous so I'd be really curious what the rest of the community thought or if they have solutions I haven't thought of.

[@ebony1442]

I can see changing roles during space combat taking one round, even if the stations are located close by. Six minutes seem a logical amount of time to sit down, log into the computer, and bring up the appropriate command interface. However, I don't know if I would do that if I was running Traveller. It seems excessive, and I think Seth's house rule makes sense for cinematic combat.

[@kyleharder3654]

I’m enjoying this series keep up the good work

[@solentbob]

Great videos, Seth. Loving this series.

[@paulelephant9521]

For boarding actions in Traveller you need Snapshot!, which was released as a sort of boardgame/supplement for Traveller covering shipboard combat.

[@joeltarnabene5026]

Would love to see a series on the Pirates of Drinax campaign. Especially how to make sense of the weird fact that the PCs are offered to conduct piracy in order to restore the Drinaxian kingdom. I just can't figure out how causally the one might lead to the other.

[@richmcgee434]

Government sanctioned pirates are called privateers, and have been around throughout human history, most prominently in the Age of Sail. No reason to think the chaotic mess of the Traveller universe wouldn't retain the concept, and they'd probably have the same advantages and drawbacks.

[@joeltarnabene5026]

@@richmcgee434 Yes, I get that but how would this lead to the restoration of the kingdom? It just seems like a far fetched plan with no details on how to go about it.

[@peterfleshman812]

@@joeltarnabene5026 it's a combination false flag operation/protection racket/fund raising project. Essentially Drynax knows it can't protect you even with the letter. So you are to engage in the piracy to loot the other systems to bolster and restore the royal coffers and by making trade harder. Drynax then approaches the other systems to promise to take care of the piracy problem in exchange for taxes and loyalty. Then by the time the 3rd Impirium gets wind of it, Drynax has a trade route and gets support from the 3rd imperium to maintain the trade route. If any one doesn't pay or kowtow to the kingdoms demands, piracy increases once more.

[@hakdov6496]

I learned the hard way that space combat in Traveller against even odds is a lose-lose proposition. You will either die or your ship will sustain more damage than you can afford to repair.

[@richmcgee434]

Common problem with many scifi RPGs. Losing a starship fight is probably the number one cause of TPKs in games that have rules for them, although it's gradually become less of a risk as designers have added more options for survival even when your ship suffers catastrophic damage - escape pods, lifeboats, "safe rooms" or just having a ship go effectively out-of-action long before it takes damage that would reduce it to irradiated debris.

[@JakeSweeper]

Most Military SF stories I've read mostly used fletchette rifles during boarding actions as, while they will do a job on flesh and bones, they don't do much to bulkheads and tech beyond scratching the paint. Any "melee" weapons the boarders would have would just be SF versions of the KBAR, not space cutlasses or whatever. :)

[@NefariousKoel]

Or fractal ammunition that breaks up on impact with hard surfaces. Give that special ammo a big damage penalty against anyone armored, but let it avoid damage to systems, life support, etc in the vessel. Would still emphasize melee weapons against armored targets or those in cover.

[@karlheilmann9172]

@@NefariousKoel there's a wiki on Frangible bullets that's a good explanation of these rounds. Target resistance to the impact of the round becomes important, as these rounds can often penetrate "soft" targets, but disintegrate upon hitting a harder surface.

[@DanielMcGillis-f3w]

I am just starting out running Pirates of Drinax. I have decided that as long as they are not using destructive DD weapons or AP rounds, there is no danger of breaching the hull from the inside. Beem weapons on ships are several orders of magnitude stronger than a PDL. The use of things like grenades and or armor-piercing rounds has the potential to be a problem on 200-400-ton vessels. Not so much deep inside a huge freighter or a ship of the line though. Stun grenades and tranq grenades are another thing entirely. I plan to have some very exciting shipboarding combats. A sword would be a potent weapon in very close quarters, such as ship hallways and the like.

[@Rob_King_of_the_Plants]

Same exact thoughts on boarding ...I was hoping that you found something I missed though

[@SSkorkowsky]

I'm guessing that if you went through all the supplement books and modules you'd find a good selection of information on them. But I'd love it all compiled in one easy-to-find spot.

[@richmcgee434]

I mentioned this in another post, but you might want to look at the old Snapshot boardgame for some ideas on how to handle combat on board a starship. There are pdfs of teh rulebook(s) out there, and while it is a boardgame (and kind of clunky at that) the parts talking about deck plans and damage needed to breach doors and bulkheads could be useful even in today's edition. i.4pcdn.org/tg/1404763048770.pdf There's a wealth of online material for various editions of Traveller, and some stuff (deck plans, for ex) should work for any of them.

[@shirgall]

In the case of the cascading critical hit, what about a house rule that applies the next critical hit and the end of the next round? Also, the crew repairing damage can put a stop to this if the repair the right spot before the end of the round.

[@grimmwolf6695]

Im going to use some of the traveler game mechanics in my home brew and loved the video

[@konsumterra1]

megatraveller ship operation book was very nice mayday was interesting thanks for this looks overall improved i liked 2300 nuclear detonation lasers - probably illegal in imperium

[@bluestarorion]

Seth, I would LOVE to see Jack and you doing a live play of Traveller someday. :P

[@HeadHunterSix]

"They're the same picture" ;)

[@inc0mingr0flc0pter]

I’m sold on Asteroid Ship. If I ever get to be a player in this game, I’m going for it, mark my words.

[@avollant]

Question: Will you consider to make a series of video on how to build a ship/vehicle from scratch using the traveller's rules? Like a walk-through maybe?

[@SSkorkowsky]

Not sure. Technical vids like that require a lot of work putting together all the images to make it possible to follow along step-by-step. But there's also such a huge array of options that I'd only be able to really touch on the basics and a few ship options if I were to make a sample ship (sort of like the Character build vid). After that, the inevitable river of gripes that I failed/neglected/avoided touching one some particular ship option out of 1,000 possible options, as well as the inevitable river of gripes that even though I stated there are far more options than I'm showing, that my not showing them must mean those options don't exist at all and "blah, blah, outrage, earlier editions, blah," just makes me leery to even try it.

[@avollant]

@@SSkorkowsky I understand. I asked because not all "engineering rules" are explained in a format that most fools would understand them (I'm such a fool). Example, coming from Battletech, I still have nightmares from trying to understand the rules of Starcruiser (2300AD/GDW(80s))... such was the culture shock.

[@OomaGooma]

Seth Skorkowsky - LOL, you just described every comments section on The Internet. 😸 Love your videos, by the way.

[@frankmueller2781]

Classic Traveller (1977) does use vectored movement. It is much more realistic, but can take FOREVER! Note: Vectored movement includes missile movement, meaning a clever pilot can guide enemy missiles into other ships, asteroids, get them dragged down(Or off course) by planetary gravity, or even right back at the shooter. A good pilot can also gravity assist his speed with a close approach to a planet, moon, or even star. Not to mention, after several combat rounds at 4+G acceleration in one direction, your ship can be going so stupid fast that NOTHING can catch it.

[@bossman4799]

The divide by 10 or multiply by 10 damage for ship vs. personal scale combat is actually how it works i. the Star Wars Rpg too. I guess it’s just a really simple mechanic for space setting games.

[@richmcgee434]

Even Spelljammer followed a broadly similar rule - took ten points of hand weapon damage applied to the same spot to knock off one hull point. Their shipboard weapons had different damage rolled versus ships or critters though - but AD&D liked to do things the hard way, and these were ballista and catapults, not laser cannon and plasma guns. :)

[@UrsusMaior]

For range bands TAS over at DriveThruRPG offers this helpful sheet: www.drivethrurpg.com/product/193820/MgT-Traveller-Space-Combat-Chart And then I also found this monster, which kind of aims at being a range band and cheat sheet all in one: i.redd.it/o2ez67igecg11.png

[@colinflanigan9153]

On your recommendation I learned CoC and run a campaign. Now I’m going to buy Traveller.

[@SSkorkowsky]

Hope you all have fun with it.

[@colinflanigan9153]

@@SSkorkowsky We have! Trying out your Solomani Adventures 1 - Mysteries on Arcturus Station

[@wardkerr2456]

Just a thought, as personal weapons do 1/10 damage any hit of ten or more will lower a ships hit points by one. a boarding party blasting away with explosive snub pistol rounds, or auto rifles could tear a ship up from the inside out PDQ. Best to pull out the cutlass and the revolver and settle this like men.

[@wardkerr2456]

ps Just count all missed shot as hits to the ship, and roll damage. Those shots have to go somewhere. You could even lower the needed damage to 1/5 inside vulnerable sections, and have criticals applied automatically to an area in which the critical was generated. Perhaps splash damage could be suffered from power plant and drive criticals. Most of this would just be a logical extensions of existing rules. A laser rifle could really make a mess.

[@photon8935]

I think given the description on High Guard the boarding supplement being over promising, boarding action should be a free update supplement to all who bought the book. However despite this I enjoy the ship combat as it gives a nice balance within a gaming session.

[@lylenicholson1639]

For my players, I just apply modern boarding action logic . Bulkheads are impervious to small arms, interior walls/doors can be pierced by rifle caliber weapons , portholes are vulnerable to multiple handgun or a single rifle round. AP rounds do more damage and explosive bullets to less . Heavy energy weapons ventilate everything.

[@karlheilmann9172]

After watching this a few times, in reference to the section on boarding actions and man held weapons damage to a ship/ship's hull/ship systems, I would think that since personal weapons do damage/10, a 40 point hull would be tough to get through, so a missed shot would probably damage a system and the Ref would probably need to make a chart for this, possibly moving the crit level to that system up one notch. However, if the effect of the miss was a -6 or worse, then I would say it somehow breached the hull, causing a life support leak and even decompressive results to that cabin/area. Maybe the Ref's chart could list affected components based on the location of the ship in which the miss is happening (so not all systems can be damaged in every part of the ship). Still I get the point that it would be nice to have this stuff available rather than having to make it up (unless you like making stuff up).

[@sherlock384140]

Regarding boarding actions: it is clear that the "core" books (High Guard and the basic core books) were not actually play tested, or were not play tested thoroughly enough to go over every option/possibility.

[@MrFleem]

It seems that if a boarding party doesn't mind wrecking your ship, they might want to use guns and explosives. I could see the travelers docking with a pirate ship, then just chucking a bunch of bombs in and immediately undocking.

[@IslanKleinknecht]

It might not a good idea to risk making the enemy ship go critical at the same time that you are attached to it.

[@MrFleem]

@@IslanKleinknecht Since when have players been concerned with consequences?

[@Taloon85]

I can remember a player dualwielding laserpistols waiting right in front of the airlock for it to open to board the enemy ship, only to get greeted with a granat from an underbarrel granatluncher. Almost killed, only safed by his armor. another player retaliated (of course) with a PPC, gutting the other ships interior, killing half the crew in secondary explosions. Ah great times when logic is not above fun.

[@TheFSFLensman]

Space boarding could be ITS OWN game!

[@VerumAdPotentia]

I'm seriously beginning to worry about the state of Jack's mental health.

[@richmcgee434]

If you want inertia in Traveller, there are the Mayday, Brilliant Lances, and Battle Rider boardgames from earlier editions. Or you could play the Power Projection minis rules from BITS, which were a set of Full Thrust/Traveller mashup rules.

[@richmcgee434]

@667Gullin No, Dark Nebula was a strategic level game using the same system as the better-known Imperium. Covers the wars between the Imperium and the Aslan in the (as you might guess) Dark Nebula sector. There should be writeups for all of these on Boardgame Geek. Battle Rider was the kind-of-companion game to Brilliant Lances, they came out around the same time. BL was smaller in scope, kind of like Mayday, while BR was squadron & fleet scaled.

[@richmcgee434]

@667Gullin Honestly, I'd say no. Unless you're a diehard Traveller collector they aren't worth picking up. Dark Nebula was surprisingly weak too, at least compared to the rather similar Imperium - which I heartily recommend, especially the OOP Avalanche Press version, although GDW's is good too. Of the other old GDW space games, I think my other real standouts were Belter (economic game about mining the asteroid belt with as much combat thrown in as the players are willing to spend money on) and Asteroid (a small party of random spacefarers trying to avoid patrol robots while seeking an asteroid base's crazy AI before it slams the rock into the Earth). Bloodtree Rebellion (kind of Viet Nam on a colony world) was very weird but rewarding if you enjoy balancing political/psyops maneuvering with military efforts.

[@NefariousKoel]

If you wanna go full-3D Newtonian physics Traveller space combat then there is the Traveller version of Squadron Strike from Ad Astra Games. Probably too much wargame crunch for a casual RPG session, but it's a damn interesting tabletop system for going all-in. The Deluxe SS Traveller set has all the goods. The Squadron Strike rules include options to customize how much physics you want to use along with your own ships, weapons, defenses, etc for it.

[@Zeithri]

31:20 - Seems like they struck valuable cargo or ammo that caused everything to blow up from inside. It happened me once or twice in Mechwarrior. Perfect hit on my ammo, caused a flare that looked like the sun before it blew up my entire Marauder.

[@richmcgee434]

Unless you're carrying missiles there's no such thing as ammo for starship weapons. Everything's a zap gun, or non-explosive "sand" crystals. Even BTech has CASE ammo storage as an option.

[@tabletopgamingwithwolfphototec]

📝 Mongoose publishing is redoing Highguard. The new updated version was going to be released this past summer , but appears to have been delayed.

[@RPGmodsFan]

pew, pew, pew...

[@jesternario]

Some folks would say this section is important for playing bounty hunters, and it is, but I picture bounty Hunter games more like Cowboy Bebop, where you’re going portside and tracking perps down, to the mandalorian boba get stuff.

[@Daniel-Strain]

I'm loving what I'm learning about this system in this series. However, I really don't like the relative/abstract range categories. I prefer a map with ships moving around on it in a more representative way. Has anyone experimented with moving ships on a hex map a number equal to thrust, and then calling the ranges 5 (close), 10 (medium), 20 (long) hexes? (or something like that)?

[@mrmaster9801]

That's a good idea. Maybe the mats used for X-Wing or Battlefleet Gothic would be good as well. I seem to remember that there are no hexes there, but you could easily create a sort of scale (e.g. 3" = thrust 1, 6" = thrust 2, and so on) and you use the miniatures you can find on the market (or even make them by yourself with 3d printing).

[@pablohammerly448]

@Zoredin: I used to own a boxed set for MegaTraveller (or possibly, TNE) called "Brilliant Lances" that provided a large folded hex map for space battles, but I found the movement rules to be extremely complicated. TNE also had "Fire, Fusion and Steel" that included complicated design rules for ships, small craft, vehicles and equipment. 🤔

[@jaymiescott96]

Seth you mention wanting to know more about why one does not let fly with devastating plasma bolts inside space ships. I would offer that if you look at the skirmish game Rogue Stars Pages 38-39 there is sufficent effects for each missed attack that can range from no worries to OMG we are gonna die. It also determines what happens to containers as most large scale gunbattles in space games abord ships take place in cargo bays or similar areas, because pirates want your stuff not your ship.

[@davewilson13]

I’ve now added another Captain Action - leadership the way normal combat occurs. The effect is the number of DM +1s she can give out. Perhaps that should be tactics, but just following other rules and giving the captain an option in the action stage.

[@leerv.]

Amazing! I'm having flashbacks to EVE Online now. :P Seth, I don't know if you've heard of or played EVE, but it also uses the "swashbuckling/dogfighting" -style space combat that doesn't include inertia and treats combat as if it were on Earth. And while it is less realistic, I agree with you that it's more fun. Realistic space battles just would not be as exciting; you can't miss. Combat would all come down to sensor warfare and computer-vs-computer. ...Ok I suppose that could be fun to some people, actually. :)

[@pablohammerly448]

@Lee rV.: I've never tried EVE Online, as I prefer a simpler game: Freelancer, an old (2004 IIRC) Microsoft game that Microsoft no longer supports. In-system movement is mostly via trade lanes while jumps are usually via jumpgates, while natural jump holes can be used, though I've died a couple times using jump holes (I respawned wherever I last docked and insurance replaced my ship, but I lost my cargo, supplies and unmounted equipment). The original game included dozens of NPC factions and scores of ships and (star) systems, not to mention hundreds of bases. The Discovery mod added more NPC factions, ships, systems and bases (even player-owned bases) and is still available with the official server hosting up to 100 or so players at times. Player factions can manufacture jump drives, but they're only usable on very large ships -- capital ships or the largest transports (merchant ships that can haul 5k cargo). Note that merchants in Freelancer/Discovery are called traders -- it's the video game that is most like Traveller IME. 🤓

[@fran3ro]

I wonder if Traveler could be good for a Space Colonial Mobile Infantry campaing? A special team facing movie like situations like the xenomorphs as in "Aliens", a predator, bugs from "Starship Troopers", misions "Stargate SG-1" style, some "Event Horizon" shit and things like that.

[@SimonLandmine]

The 2022 Update version of High Guard now includes some additional rules for boarding action combat, including penalties for trying to use non-pistol/melee weapons in the confined spaces. And there are references to an even more detailed system in yet another book ('Specialised Forces', I think, which is a sort of 'Mercenary, vol.2' book - I don't have that one, though). It is a bit frustrating, though!

[@photon8935]

One thing I believe is missing is a mechanic to represent items like nanobots to do the repairs automatically when something is damaged. It should still take time but not require a crew member to have to do the repairs. This could also relate to personal combat. Given this is a technology that is in it's infancy now I would have thought it would be implemented.

[@SSkorkowsky]

Ship repair drones are a ship option you can add. They can either be instigated by the Ship's Computer (need the program for that) or a crewmember with the Remote Ops skill. As far as personal, there's one augment that's a fast-heal. Not looking at the book at the moment, but from my recollection it doesn't halp much during the fight, but speeds recovery up. Most space suits also have a self-sealing feature.

[@photon8935]

@@SSkorkowsky You do a really good job describing the information in a simple form and I really enjoy your other characters.

[@SSkorkowsky]

Thanks. Glad you're enjoying the channel.

[@Kevlar-78]

This is a great series. I have a couple books and you have inspired me to GM a session to test it out. I was wondering if you are working on / have a video planned relating to GMs (Prep, best practices, how much to design vs published adventures etc..) Thanks for all the content Seth!

[@GrunthosThePoet]

The 2022 Update to the High Guard book now has a section on Boarding Actions

[@tripple-a6031]

Good ship combat rules are pretty hard to make but these seem good enough, some aspects are even pretty similar to my homebrew airship rules, though I haven't made so many tables and go more with the flow.

[@visageliquifier3636]

You know, something about turrets seemed fishy way back when and I got some time to think about it. That +1 for each extra weapon instance is hogwash. Using a pulse laser as an example: a single pulse laser is 2D, which gives you an expected damage of 7. Efficiency-wise, that's 7 damage for 5 power and 1.2MCr for a single turret. If you have two single turret pulse lasers, you're expecting about 14 damage for 10 power and 2.4MCr. If you however mount them in the same turret and fire them together, you get 2D+2, or 9 damage for 9 power and 2.2MCr. So: one single pulse turret: 7/5 = 1.4 dam per pow 7/1.2 = 5.833 dam per MCr two single pulse turrets: (unsurprising) 14/10 = 1.4 dam per pow 14/2.4 = 5.833.. dam per MCr one double pulse turret: (beware!) 9/9 = 1 dam per pow 9/2.2 = 4.091.. dam per MCr I call shenanigans on that. Poppycock, bullstickle and horsefeathers to boot! Keep in mind that reduced damage ratio devalues all the power infrastructure needed to support the weapons, as well as the hull to carry it and engine to propel it. I'd recommend giving the gunner an option. If they have a multiturret, they can either cover a wider area or focus the entire array. If they choose to focus fire, then add a damage die and reduce the necessary effect to score a critical by one or two per additional weapon (at your discretion). The expected value then is not as high as a multiple of the same turret, but the shot is more likely to be effective. If they choose to fire for effect, roll a task chain for the shot. The first is one to two easier, per your discretion, and hits for single weapon damage. Each shot in the sweep is one to two harder and (if it hits the same target) hits for half (and then a quarter, min 1) damage, rounded down. You may not hit hard, but you'll hit something. This also makes multiturreted ships extra scary for fighters. Fire modes should not be mixed. I also call claptrap and pollydunkle on pop-up turrets being TL9. I think if you're a culture that can handle building jump-capable ships, it shouldn't be beyond your ability to put a turret on a platform and hydraulic it up through a cargo-sized airlock. I like the Traveler system quite bit, actually. Certain parts just seem to - need some tuning.

[@philippkowalski1105]

One thing you could do to determine if in ship lasers fired hit any critical system is using a universal emulator like Mythic GME. Ask the fate chart, determine the likelihood and receive a "yes" or "no" to the question: In the last combat round, was any critical system hit by a laser beam?

[@TheRealSonBae]

Running Drinax myself and had the same issue with boarding actions searching all over the core rulebook and High Guard until I stumbled upon the bit in the campaign book. Very frustrating

[@ivanshiek]

You could create a random table based on Escape Velocity's ship boarding. I plan to do the same.