Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards: High Level Tactics

[@TreantmonksTemple]

What do you think this channels followers should be called other than just "gamers"? I was thinking "Reason Mages" maybe? Share your ideas or vote for your favorite with an upvote!

[@FelineElaj]

Optimages, maybe? Edit: or optimancers.

[@harjutapa]

optimonks

[@JavierSanchez-mo2ef]

@@FelineElaj optimancers is interesting. I think we should get away from mages in the name though.

[@Jacob-Day]

Something monk-y? Disciples? Acolytes?

[@FelineElaj]

@@JavierSanchez-mo2ef why?

[@bagamer13]

Just would like to add that Simulacrum has a casting time of 12 hours, not 10 minutes. It's still a ridiculously good spell even with powdered ruby requirement.

[@Nr4747]

One great way to get around counterspells (that a DM in Adventurers League kept using against us) is to ready a spell while out of range/line of sight and then walk up/into the open to release it. The spell is cast when you ready it, not when it's released, so it can only be counterspelled when it's being readied.

[@hitchikerspie]

Oh my god this is an elite tactic

[@haydensprogramming6766]

One small hiccup at 24:50, you do have to prepare spells from Spell Mastery. "You can cast those spells at their lowest level without expending a spell slot when you have them prepared."

[@Reepicheep-1]

Another, you DON'T have to choose only 2 spells. PHB specifically states you can Change Chosen Spells with an 8-hour study period. So, ANY wiz spell you know of 1st or 2nd can become a cantrip if you want it to.

[@zeedar412]

I'm glad you went into detail about suggestion being very DM-dependent. I am one of the ones who are super conservative in terms of what is "reasonable". I want my players to try to empathize with the target of their spell, and try to figure out what they would see as a reasonable suggestion. Like, a greedy person would be swayed by gold, an ambitious one would be willing to turn on their master to overthrow them, a cowardly one might flee to avoid death.

[@astara21]

The wish spell states "You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect." One requirement I feel some players tend to overlook is time. According to RAW, you should be able to create a fully mature clone in its vessel ready to replace the creature you chose with one action. Since the clone can be a younger version of the creature this is immortality for your wizard and anyone else that is willing. There is always something useful that can be gained by casting wish each day it should never go unused.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

The issue with clone isn't the casting time though, it's the maturing time, which as I read, wish wouldn't eliminate.

[@astara21]

@@TreantmonksTemple I guess it's GM's discretion if maturing time is included in "You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell." It doesn't say to "cast" the spell it says "in" that spell. For example, to make a teleportation circle permanent you need to cast it every day for a year. Does wish remove the multiple casting requirement to make this possible with one cast? Has Jeremy Crawford or someone mentioned this? Maybe you can make a short video on the advanced uses for the wish spell. We always love your creative take on things like this!

[@Reepicheep-1]

Also, could a Regeneration spell replace the flesh taken for clone? Would that make the clone inert?

[@ChefMKT]

Small but important detail is that counterspell has a range of 60 ft, not 50ft. Doesn't change much about the tactical approach of moving in and out of range to avoid counterspell, but it does limit which spells you can use since 60ft range is very common for spells.

[@Jacob-Day]

You just have to get really good at the hokey pokey. Stick your whole self in, pull your whole self out, stick your whole self in and wave your wand about.

[@Jacob-Day]

@@wizard380 as the roll you make at the end of your turn for Blink isn't an attack, an ability check or a saving throw; you can't use portent on it. Besides, even if you could do it, there are much better things to use a portent on.

[@Neasel.]

Interesting to note here but technically you can move 65ft away. Ready your action to say, release the spell as soon as a certain enemy is in range and then move up. Readying a spell counts as casting it, releasing it does not so they missed the opportunity to counterspell it.

[@nathanschubert3048]

linear warriors, quadratic wizards

[@b0nehead]

Another candidate for the last Wish of the day: Hero's Feast. Sure it's a 6th level spell, but it's a great party buff that lasts a day and doesn't need concentration.And it's annoying to cast because it has a fairly specific expensive component. Definitely not a waste of a spell.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

That's true, a good way to bypass a costly component. If the BBG we expect to encounter is a green dragon, this would allow the entire party to be immune to both the breath weapon and the fear aura.

[@ronaldeldonald]

I'm glad you break tactics down into low, mid, and high level. It can help a lot of players who are nervous about playing a caster and picking poor spell choices, and not using them to their full potential. Have you considered a wizard multiclass video? What classes make a good dip, and how many levels? What multiclass dips are good, bad, underrated, overrated, etc. What levels should we multiclass at, because most guides don't tell the reader when multiclassing is the best time for it.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

When I do the wizard builds, there are going to be a lot, so I'll be doing some multiclassing and going over cost/benefit of each choice

[@reignhunger1308]

Holy this was a great ride. Can't wait for the spell lists per levels! Important is also to have one slot ready for disintegrate, because the moment I use wall of forces and force-cages I'm sure my DM will too..

[@WallnutDan]

Another good defensive use that I find for Contingency is casting a 5th level False Life. That adds 25-28 temporary hit points. Like Dimension Door, it doesn't stop you from concentrating on anything and it also keeps you next to your party. You also don't run the risk of teleporting into a wall if you're in a dungeon or something.

[@kingp2272]

Absolutely brilliant~ This entire playlist is such a powerful resource. Thanks so much for compiling and sharing this with us! =))

[@Reepicheep-1]

At 10+, an Enchanter can hit any second target if using a single-target Enchantment spell. Dramatically changes what crowd-control options you use.

[@legithopecrew]

Other ways to avoid counter spell. Cast through a magic item (as they don't have components for spells cast through them they are unable to be counterspelled). Get out of sight, ready an action to cast a spell, then go around a corner and release that spell. This uses your reaction but it prevents counter spell. Use subtle spell. This prevents counterspell as long as the spell your casting has no material components. Use your reaction to counterspell their use of counterspell. Sounds dumb but it works raw. You cast a spell, they counterspell with their reaction, you counterspell their counterspell preventing your spell from being countered. This also uses your reaction.

[@unfunny-penguin]

9:29 Small note, but in the Contingency spell description it says “The contingent spell takes effect only on you, even if it can normally target others” so Scatter really is a worse candidate than Dimension Door

[@zacharylona]

DM: "You've arrived in the BBEG's lair, and he stands before you, cackling as streaks of magic shoot from his fingertips. What do you do?" Wizard: "I walk up to him and shake his hand." DM: "Uh... ok. He eyes you warily, and shakes your hand, as he asks 'coming to offer the terms of your surrender?'" Wizard: "I wish for a simulacrum of you." BBEG: *counterspell* Wizard: *counterspell* The whole table: *cheers*

[@zacharylona]

Watched this again and in hindsight I realized something: Tarrasque, MM p286 "[...]A scaly biped, the tarrasque is fifty feet tall and seventy feet long, weighing hundreds of tons." PHB p191 Gargantuan is 20 by 20 ft. *or larger.* Because of this, Forcecage does not capture all Gargantuan creatures automatically; it's up to the DM if they fit. Baby versions of these creatures can still be Gargantuan, and they may generally fit too.

[@1217BC]

Just so you're aware, simulacrum only works on humanoids and beasts, not all creatures. Lots of enemies don't fall in those categories, and there's a definite limited to how many of those beasts and humanoids have legendary actions. Still a great spell, but many bbgs won't be options for the wish/simulacrum combo

[@norandomnumbers]

I was terrified for my BBEG for a moment. Phew.

[@darthalpha1525]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your choice of second level spell mastery. While Mirror image is good, you have to remember that it says: "A creature is unaffected by this spell if it can't see, if it relies on senses other than sight, such as blindsight, or if it can perceive illusions as false, as with truesight." The higher level you get, the more and more creatures are going to be able to bypass your mirror image spell. I think the much better choice would be misty step or Blindness/Deafness. Misty step is good for obvious reasons, but one thing people forget about Blindness/Deafness is that it isn't concentration. With this choice, you're effectively getting an infinite duration, nonconcentration version of Eyebite. That said, it won't be great against dragons, but you've got other spells for that. Also, one nice thing about this feature is you can change it by spending 8 hours studying. So if we know one day ahead of time that we're going to the locked door emporium that the evil lich has turned into his lair, prepare at will knock. Oh, and don't forget the "Out of combat utility" of at will grease ;)

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Fair enough, though I will point out if your concern about Mirror Image is that "creatures that don't rely on sight" are more common at higher levels, maybe taking Blindness/Deafness as a replacement doesn't really solve the issue.

[@darthalpha1525]

Dang. Ok, fair point. I will say I wasn't imagining B/D as an alternative, more as an at will non-concentration spell that you can debuff with. The defensive option would obviously be Misty Step.

[@davidpowell9376]

Personally the two spells I always go for for Spell Mastery are Shield and Misty Step, since they're spells that by far take up the most of my low-level slots.

[@Threadnaught]

@@TreantmonksTemple 7 months late to the party, but... Blindness/Deafness should affect creatures that don't use sight, but rely on sound via Deafness. As well as creatures with True Seeing. In several entries for Blindsense/sight (at least in 3.5e) have it go away in areas of magical silence, suggesting it's based on sound. Meaning Deafness should make already blind creatures with Blindsight, even blinder. Mirror Image is the better Spell at lower levels.

[@willshaper4695]

The order of the stick is the best.

[@ryancparker]

Using Wish at the end of the day seems like the best use of Wish. The problem I see with using Wish is you are using a 9th level spell to cast a lower level spell, albeit with an action and no components. I’ll prepare Wish along with another 9th level spell like Meteor Swarm or Shapechange with Wish as my backup.

[@undrhil]

I keep Expeditious Retreat and Rope Trick as my Spell Mastery spells on my Wizard. And his Simulacrum keeps Mage Armor and Invisibility up.

[@Wildbarley]

I had the villains kidnap the bard PC who foolishly went out at night on his own and replace him with a deep mole simulacrum. The player knew something strange had happened to him but was relieved he simply survived the 2v1 ambush. Later the climatic encounter kicked off when the party came across the real PC bard, tied up, at which point I had the reveal and all hell broke lose.

[@WeebDweebTCG]

Underrated comment

[@khisola]

Very specific circumstance but if you simulacrum a wizard enemy, that wizard simulacrum will be without its gear. So no spell components or spell focus, thus it will be unable to cast spells. Same goes for creating one of your own wizard character unless you acquire those items for it previously.

[@Setzer]

Regarding contingencies... if you think about the concentration aspect of Resilient Sphere interrupting your concentration on a battlefield effect, you may want to set the threshold for a # of damage that will make your concentration save impossible. If you have a +9 you will still always fail a save that results from a hit that deals you 60 damage or more. That might be too high a threshold because if you are slightly injured then you could end up taking so much damage that you go down, but at that point I'd just say that it will trigger if I drop to below HP Max - 60 and be mindful of when I'm getting close to that trigger. Like he says it takes some guess work to figure out the ideal number for you, but that's how I would make sure that I don't interrupt something important.

[@gregoryfloriolli9031]

What’s to stop you from casting Simulacrum and having your duplicate cast those risky Wishes for you? I wouldn’t do that since it would piss off the DM and other players but unless I’m missing something there’s nothing in the rules to prohibit that.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Well, if I create the simulacrum with my wish spell, it won't have a 9th level slot

[@gregoryfloriolli9031]

Treantmonk's Temple True. But if you create the Simulacrum with the 7th level spell, it should have all the spells you have including Wish.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@gregoryfloriolli9031 true, though you've already mentioned why you shouldn't do that.

[@goatmeal5241]

@@TreantmonksTemple Without extra caveats, the first megalomaniacal wizard to reach 17th level would immediately take over the world with an army of simulacra. Have wish prep'd, honest-cast Sim on yourself, and have the Sim Wish-cast Sim on you. Repeat! Every 6 seconds, another duplicate of yourself is generated with all your spells except one 9th and one 7th level slot, and no caster ever casts Sim twice, so they're all active concurrently. They don't regenerate spell slots, but 24 hours of this (they can continue while you sleep, like sorcerer's apprentice on steroids) is 14400 copies---that's still plenty to take over the world immediately. Simulacrum as written invalidates the logic of the game world---any intelligent evil wizard WOULD do this if it worked. At the very least, add a caveat that only one Sim of a creature can exist at a time, or that Sims can't cast Sims. If a high-level sorcerer with twinned spell and a Wizard with wish team up, gods help us all, since it then grows twice as fast, and all the wizards/second sorcerers still have their wishes (the new sorc-sim casts wish-sim on the original pair). Edit: Sorcerers can't honest-cast Sim, so the sorcerer buddies don't cause exponential growth (only one of the sims will have their wish each generation, so you only ever get two more per 6 seconds)

[@jand.4737]

Will you do something like that for other classes, too? Sorcerers for example? Also: Simulacrum on a Samurai Fighter is powerful, because Fighters can heal themselves + the Samurai can get temp. HP Or a Zealot Barbarian, as they just can't die while raging. If you make a simulacrum out of your level 20 Zealot ally, it will live forever, even though being at 0hp.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I don't know if I'll do such a comprehensive guide for other classes, but I will probably do something more condensed at some point

[@Graxil]

Kapitän JadeDejavu Maybe Simulacrum has been patched, but in its description, healing effects don’t work, even if they heal themselves. Also Rage only lasts 1 min. Sure, lvl 20 have infinite amounts of rages, but there is a moment when the previous rage ends and barbarian begins to rage again. So technically the Zealot feature only insures 1 min of consciousness while at 0 hp and raging, tops

[@opposumness3107]

I'd like to add that Sleep bypasses what the Zealot is trying to do at 0HP, killing the barbarian without a save or anything - autokill.

[@PowderKeg3838]

@@TreantmonksTemple Going through the Sorcerer list only speaking to the value based on specific meta magics would be a worthy study and will change many spells rankings from the Wizard's spell list.

[@bradreinier3792]

greater invisibility is also good for avoiding counterspells or subtle spell meta magic if you take the feat

[@PowderKeg3838]

Great Video Chris! Not enough thought is put into the high level spells because characters rarely go there. This helps us first timers.

[@Tzunamii777]

Force Cage/Sickening radiance seems like a potential of goodies.

[@mcphadenmike]

Nice shout out to the dungeon dudes, who are so great. 👍

[@Moley1Moleo]

Regarding Wish: Probably not the dominant choice, but I think a decent use for Wish is the *Hallow* spell. Wishing for it saves you a 24 hour casting time, 1000gp worth of materials, for quite a unique set of defensive effects.

[@EvelynnEleonore]

Telekinesis is one of my favourite choices for contingency.

[@EvelynnEleonore]

@@wizard380 My wizards dump strength, so they're gonna fail their save against their own DC almost certainly, allowing them to move themselves 30 feet away from the attacker, then using the fastcast telekinesis for control!

[@jamheald]

Great video! Would like to see you do a preparation guide for some of these levels like you did with the previous two video.

[@rodjacksonx]

RE: DEMIPLANES... just FYI, you can't exit a demiplane by using the Demiplane spell; it'll only take you to a new demiplane. (Edit: Official statement - www.sageadvice.eu/2016/06/18/demiplane-inside-demiplane/amp/)

[@sophiemoconnell]

I know this is a wizard video, but as a divine sorcerer I get contagion which is quite a nice tactical way to get creatures to waste their high-level resistances. Slimy doom is also a really nice one to use as they'll have disadvantage on cons saves, which the very thing they need save against for three rounds straight. That, and the effects last until they fully save against it. I think that's the spell I'm most excited about getting easily. Long way to go before I get there though!

[@nathanschubert3048]

also, make sure your own saves are good, my party focused on the horde of zombies while I (controller wizard) got lucky for 4 rounds casting command on the enemies main spellcaster, who just happened to be about level 15 (i was level 7) and prevented her from just wiping my party by overriding her action economy until our dps members could turn her to mincemeat.

[@circledline3880]

*Evil DM cackling* You fool! Now that I know the secret to high level spellcasting, I will use it against my players and make them rue the day they ever decided to fight Killain the Evil! (Not really though cause I don't want them to die. P.S Great video)

[@applecrow8]

Had an old group break down to the point where player pvp was becoming a constant threat. They had no idea that the last few sessions of that group my Simulacrum was who they were interacting with. (this wasn't 5e). Simulacrum is the first spell I take on any spellcaster who reaches that level.

[@WeebDweebTCG]

Lol stealth trolling

[@voa148]

Hey! Love your guides man, though I do have one small question, at around 20 minutes you said that you could cast Demiplane to leave the demiplane you're on (I'm assuming you meant leaving to the Material Plane or another non-demiplane), but the way I read the spell it says it always creates a portal to a demiplane, so in my mind you'd be leaving the demiplane and heading into another. Am I misreading the spell? Is there an Errata/Sage Advice I'm obliviois to? Or maybe it's a houserule on your games. Anyway, I appreciate the video man, you got me into playing wizards! Have a good one. Edit: corrected some spelling mistakes.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

The way I read the first sentence of the second paragraph in the spell description, you can recreate the door that disappeared when the spell ended. That's the way I read it anyways.

[@voa148]

I can definetly see that interpretation now, though I can also still see how some DMs may rule it differently, either way, worse case scenario you just have to banish/plane shift yourself to safety.

[@jkurumu]

@@TreantmonksTemple There's a sage advice post about it, but in my opinion it doesn't really answer the question since it says "you're trapped" immediately followed by "you can open the door again". There isn't more that i can see to indicate whether he means "you're trapped in demiplanes, but you can surf through them by recasting" or "you're trapped until you finish a long rest to get the slot back". Also i'm not sure how to reply to both of you in one post.

[@keeganmbg6999]

Just a note, a Sorcerer can sack sorc points on themselves to “Create spell slots”, which Simulacrum says “Regain Expended Spell Slots”. Meaning your Sorc that can cast Wish, if he can have someone cast Simulacrum on him, you can then have the simulacrum’s all Cast wish on him to keep an infinite loop of Sorc’s that all have their spells Slots except for their ninth and can create spell slots and sleep to gain back their Sorc Points.

[@deirakos]

just a note: it is RAI that you can have only one simulacrum at a time. edit: also regaining any resource was also not intended www.sageadvice.eu/2018/08/10/3-yes-no-questions-about-simulacrum-after-it-does-a-long-rest/

[@keeganmbg6999]

RAI isn’t RAW. And yes, you can have only one Simulacrum. But nothing says my Simulacrum cannot have a Simulacrum. So each of my Simulacrum’s make another Simulacrum of me with full slots, which thusly breaks the game. Not like I would do this, but he mentioned gamebreaking, so I brought it up.

[@keeganmbg6999]

But no I well know that RAI this is not. But not everyone does RAI or even RAW, so it’s a good thing to note either way. Thank you.

[@deirakos]

@@keeganmbg6999 read everything jeremy crawford says in said link. You make a snapshot of your character so all spent resources are already spent on the simulacrum. And i didn't say "raw = rai" i've simply said that the entire simulacrum abuse was not intended by the authors. What everyone does with that information is up to them. If everyone at a table is ok with infinite simulacra then there is nothing wrong with it. But ask yourself: why would bbeg not simply abuse the same spell to simply overrun the world?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

My rule of thumb is when you find an infinite loop, whether through simulacrum or coffelock or otherwise, discuss for fun, but never try to actually use.

[@aureliomanalo]

Food for thought, as always

[@acm4bass]

Did not read every comment , so this may have already been pointed out. The casting time for simulacrum is 12 hours, and you have the range of touch. You had suggested the enemy could be copied to fight itself....nope. But you could copy an powerful ally who doesnt want to actually risk itself, but is willing to be felt up for 12 hours.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

That is a good point. Of course, enemies might be bound.

[@Flarhoon]

Using Wish to cast Simulacrum on an enemy humanoid or beast works

[@mrbean3470]

If you have a slippery enemy that keeps plane shift escaping on you, using your wish to cast Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum as an 8th level spell is a hell of a way to make sure they don't slip through your fingers again.

[@smile-tl9in]

i remember using a simulacrum of a memory devil in a secret organisation i created. I used it to wipe memory of witnesses, agents or even clients. Basically i created the dimir if you are familliar with MTG wish is typically the spell i will scribe on a scroll. So it is never wasted, and i can prepare another good 9th level spell every day that i will always use and not bankrupt myself

[@planetfall5056]

What other 9th level spell would you use more often than wish though? Seem that if your are going to have one spell to prepare and one spell to keep as a scroll you would want a general purpose spell like wish to be the one you have prepared. Their aren't many days when the ability to cast any spell 8th or lower wouldn't be useful.

[@benjamincollins5212]

Thank you for your series. I am learning lots!

[@christopherclubb9167]

One thing that I did not see mentioned was Arcane Gate. This simple spell can block line of sight from your enemies with no disadvantage to yourself. If you have another caster with wall of force, you can create what I call "the arcane bunker" which allows casters to attack enemies with very little risk to themselves (provided the enemy doesn't know disintegrate) :)

[@Flarhoon]

How do you suppose your enemy doesn't head towards the portal where from they're being attacked?

[@Flarhoon]

Ah, I see, you use the portal then effectively turn them off with a bonus action. Seems quite powerful. The enemies would have few options.

[@Flarhoon]

They'd have to ready attacks

[@christopherclubb9167]

Skip Tracer you can attack through the opposite side of the portal because it is not solid visible from the non-gate side. Effectively, you can cast spells through it and see enemies just fine from that side, while they can only see the gate itself (depending on their line of sight of course) which is 10ft. in diameter for each. This isn't always a good tactic, but it's a good one to remember because anything that goes in one gate goes out the other, creating an impassible "wall" that is literally one-sided.

[@DSFGFBEFRB]

What about Demiplane + Glyph of Warding + buff-type spells combo? Go in, use the chosen password, get super-buffed with multiple spells without any concentration, go out and kill everything. IMO completely legit within RAW. Add Wish to the mix and you can Glyph any spell of 8th or lower level in the whole game. According to sage advice, you can choose the Wished spell to come out as if cast with lower than 9th level spell slot. Great channel

[@georger9842]

Another fantastic video! Thanks so much Chris! Found this really interesting even though ive never had a campaign go past level 10. Have you ever considered making a podcast version of these videos? Then i could listen to your guides on the move! (The youtube app drains my battery and devours my 3g when i watch long videos away from home!)

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Maybe, I hadn't considered it previously...

[@lukesandadordoceu4835]

Wish: obviously create a simulacrum. If you already have a simulacrum (thus can’t make another), cast heroes’ feast right before resting. As a wizard. There are other buff spells and stuff to cast like this.

[@FelineElaj]

Finally, it's here!

[@sesimie]

Great series!!!

[@iancampbell4394]

Hey Chris, I'd like to make a quick observation about Mirror Image if you'll indulge me. The AC of the duplicates that Mirror Image creates is only 10 plus your Dexterity modifier and they don't gain any benefit from Mage Armor, Shield, etc. If you have Mage Armor cast on yourself then the AC of your duplicates is 4 points lower than yours, which means there is a 20% chance a given attack roll would be low enough to miss you but still high enough to hit your duplicate (assuming the rolls needed to hit either of you were both in the 2-19 range). So effectively, each duplicate can be counted on to soak up around 0.8 attacks, and this value goes down by 0.05 for every point of AC you gain (apart from increasing your Dexterity, of course). Is that more-or-less accurate, or have I missed something?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

You are correct, I should say "turns 3 or more attacks on you into attacks on the images" instead of "turns 3 hits into misses"

[@fhuber7507]

More ideas of how my BENBG can use his spell casting to break the party. Remember... everything the players can do, and NPC can do. And the DM never runs out of NPCs

[@Perial51]

I never run out of characters either. :D

[@nightsage217]

Holy shit.. 1) demiplane + clone 2) contigency + teleportation 3) wish + simulacrum What a BOMB...

[@WarpKL]

You can speak as a reaction and have that work trigger contingency

[@rothgartheviking858]

I really enjoy your Videos and Guides. In one of your guides can you talk about alternative spell casting rules, spell points instead of spell slots.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Maybe, I'm no expert on that subject though...

[@saturn1b1]

Wall of Fire for Forcecage good constant damage with no save

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

Mass Suggestion to have them run away, improved version: Have them sprint away as fast as they can. Better yet, if possible also have them take their shoes off. Imagine sprinting non-stop for 24 hours. They'd be frackin' dead.

[@M0ebius]

It’s not mind control. The suggestion needs to seem reasonable to the targets.

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

@@M0ebius Then they don't take their shoes off, it's all good.

[@1217BC]

No one is going to think running all out for a day is reasonable

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

@@1217BC Ahh, then that trick Treantmonk proposed of "run away" doesn't work after all. Fair enough! (Last I checked, the spell duration wasn't "whatever takes their fancy" nor was the description "they interpret it however they want. Run away could mean walk slowly. Away could mean towards you with their weapons and attack. This spell actually has whatever effect the *target* decides.*)

[@M0ebius]

Porphyrogenitus Last I checked the spell wasn’t “you completely and utterly dominate the target’s mind and can make them do any and all insane antics you can think of”. In fact what it says is you must make the suggestion sound reasonable to the taget and obviously harmful act automatically negate the spell. Running until you’re dead is both unreasonable and obviously harmful.

[@nastube4052]

"You can cast demiplane to get out of the demiplane" I don't believe that is how it works. If you are in a demiplane for more than an hour, the only way out is to planeshift or gate or something of that nature. Casting demiplane again would only link you to another demiplane and doesn't simply "open the door" to prime material. This also means you couldn't use the place for a short or long rest unless you have access to said gate/planeshift spells. However, this only makes it so the spell isn't overpowered.. ti's still quite an awesome spell.

[@nastube4052]

You can also wish the clone spells, as you previously mentioned.. if they are needed. :D

[@rodjacksonx]

Full disclosure: still a new D&D player. Is even Resilient Sphere or Dimension Door worth grabbing Contingency? It just seems so weak overall for a sixth level spell, especially since it doesn't even carry the spell's concentration for you. Are those two spells the main use of Contingency? Is there anything else it's used with that gives it significant value?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Nope, just an extra layer of protection, but it's a good deal, since you don't have to prepare or cast it when you are adventuring

[@Elsunkisto]

I've had great luck using it to cast Feign Death or Polymorph as well. Polymorph is hindered in the fact that it (like Otiluke's Resilient Sphere) is concentration based. However, I have had great luck turning into a Quetzalcoatlus which has flyby and 80' fly speed. This also leaves your action free to do whatever you need for the turn.

[@rodjacksonx]

@@Elsunkisto - Huh, hadn't thought of Polymorph. That actually sounds like a pretty slick use for it... extra HP, mobility, whatever new attacks you have access to. I'd say it's worth it, even with the concentration. And the Feign Death is pretty clever too. Great, now I've got to rethink my next Magical Secrets picks....

[@SquatBenchDeadlift455]

Haste is also a decent option, especially for bad guys.

[@Cracyflo1]

One suggestion for the illusionist, you dont have to take silent image as a spellmastery, if you cast major image as a 6th lvl spell, it becomes permanent without concentration, so u basically have your all in 1 illusionist toolkit allways right there with you.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

That's true, assuming your DM let's you take your major image with you (something you will want to check with your DM about) - I go over this in the vid

[@Cracyflo1]

@@TreantmonksTemple with Major Image you can change its position, appearence or anything you want as part of the spell itself, which is kinda crazy... so no need for malleable illusions or any of that stuff, and with illusory reallity there are endles possibilities without using even 1 spellslot assuming you cast it several days ago and keep it with you

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@Cracyflo1 Malleable illusion allows you to change the nature of an illusion, not the parameters (including the initial range).

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@Cracyflo1 twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/944013851925737472 Here's the tweet my JC which clarifies what MI allows you to change, and what it does not allow you to change.

[@Cracyflo1]

@@TreantmonksTemple Yes that's true, ok so I read it again, and if you want to change it's apearence completely you need malleable illusions, because once cast, the image stays the way it is only with minor changes( at least the way I understand it). But you can still move the Illusion as part of the spell itself. Or am I misundrstanding something?

[@ChristnThms]

LOL@ Simulacrum. Lack of imagination really holds people back. Sim is such an abusable spell. It's funny that most people ONLY see the extra spell slots.

[@ChristnThms]

About your ending... If you don't have a wizard, you're going to wish you had a wizard... Unless you have an Arcana Cleric. It's not exactly the same. But it does bring a lot of the really key parts of the wizard, and it puts Wish, Simulacrum and Divine Intervention on a single character. P.S. You did a nice breakdown on Clerics a while back, that lead into your Trickery domain build. I'd love to see an Arcana Domain build, specifically about how to combine those endgame features to best advantage.

[@M0ebius]

Lore Bards can fill in admirably as well. I use TM’s guide extensively to fill in the Magical Secrets since I’m not interested in actually playing Wizards.

[@scottswgoh6637]

First sincerely thank you for all of your videos, even being an experienced player, I love getting additional ideas. I do have a question on your wish spell useage, which is one of the "dungeon dudes" reasons for their clip you linked as well. Do you ignore the last paragraph of the spell in your games? 33% chance of never being able to cast it again ever, to me would make it not something you cast daily, cast it for sure but it would need to be a special thing. In addition, dropping to 3 str in a dungeon, in the underdark etc could make a lot of things very difficult and this doesnt go away for 2-8 days even with rest. My personal biggest reason for not using it in combat is simple it could be very costly as you then do then 1d10 damage to yourself per spell level cast afterwards. cast fireball cause your self 3-30 damage and lets face it we arent the highest hit point characters, let alone if you cast a 7th level 7-70 to yourself could be deadly.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I don't ignore it, but I avoid using it unless it's an emergency

[@lorestraat8920]

That line refers specifically to using wish in a way other than duplicating spells. Using wish daily to cast spells doesn't trigger the '33%' clause.

[@richardvisser3348]

Hi Treantmonk, I love your work and creativity! So many ways to use spells that I could never think of. Thanks. But isn’t forcecage restricted to 20x20 and so couldn’t be used against the Tarrasque?

[@jeffreyblackwell1444]

I think Wish IS the best spell in the game. The simple fact that you can simulacrum yourself mid fight because you dont have time constraints... yea an arch mage that gets a copy of himself that also has wish.... Casting Hallow on the battle field ends a whole bunch of tomfoolery. In my character's game, the Dm has decided to only allow 1 Simulacrum at any 1 time, So my Simulacrum will quickly cast a shape change spell since it has war caster and con proficiiency , and be a sweet loving planetar or the like. I like the 200 hp rather than the meger 60. If he dies.. I will simply wish up a replacement. Holy Aura is another good choice ... another tactic I employ is a programmed Illusion sequence of fog cloud upon a trigger word. very useful..Helpful to avoid counterspells and even misty steps out of my wall of force I throw on an enemy. I use for spell mastery.... Silvery Barbs and Vortex Warp very very nice way to control a battlefield. Anyway.. Good Good Video Sir! Keep it up.

[@WeebDweebTCG]

Been eyeing simulacrum but I’m wondering if it will just be better used for things outside of combat. Because I’d imagine the DM just being like: “Alright, you’re using the simulacrum in combat so I’m just going to arbitrarily increase the difficulty of your combat scenarios to absorb that simulacrum’s capabilities. ” Thoughts?

[@starmada105]

Could you theoretically cast a major image to create a high level wizard casting wish for you and then use illusory reality to make it real? Wish at 14th level?! And technically since only the wizard was illusory the spell was real. So it’s effects act as normal

[@JakeConrad666]

No. You can only make a single object real, no creatures

[@MrSlutzkin]

Another spell that can break the game and action economy is Planar Binding. At level 5 its a shit spell, but when the characters can cast 7th level spells, its rather good. Upcasted Conjure Elementals + 4th level Magic Circle + Planar Binding ensures that something like an invisible stalker can be your follower for a whole month. The only thing stopping you from casting the spell over and ove is the money your character has. And of course all of this is ignoring the possibility of knocking out an enemy or incapacitating them to some capacity and then attempting planar binding.

[@MrSlutzkin]

Your chances of success on whatever you attempt to planar binding can also be improved with spells like bestow curse (upcast to 5th level for no concentration), bane, and feeblemind.

[@Elsunkisto]

This isn't even the worst of it. I have a bard and DIVINATION wizard(with portent) in my party who have 9 Draegloths that just follow them around using only 6th level spells.

[@MrSlutzkin]

Yeah, but to be fair, something like that is a very hard venture to maintain. Every day for 10 days you have to kill a humanoid and extract their blood, and every day you maintain such a strategy, you spend 1k gold. I find the spell is only useful at 6th level if you can expect something to happen on a certain date, or within a certain limited time frame.

[@davisoares2288]

Using Planar Binding with Wish, after hitting the enemy with a Feeblemind, is pretty broken. Of course, it consumes your 2 most valuable spell slots, but you can gain a friend for a very long time without having to summon and/or capture it first.

[@russellgentile4719]

Do you ever take into account components? That might make simulacrum ineffective or extremely difficult to pull off. Thoughts?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

The powdered ruby is something that should be available in any town with a jeweler, and 1500gp is probably not challenging by that level. The rest should be replaceable by using an arcane focus.

[@jamesengland9582]

I know next week you said you would cover witch spells but after that will you cover wizards spells?

[@ANonymous-bh1un]

What spell do you cast with Wish? Clone. You skip all the expense of the diamond dust and sarcophagus, plus you don't have to wait the four months before the clone is viable - one action and >POOF< you've got a clone. Keep in mind it says in the text that you can choose to make a Clone YOUNGER than the person you are cloning. For a home game-world I came up with an Arcana Domain religion whose high-level leaders spent Wish spells (which Arcana domain Clerics get access to at lv17) to Clone every single member of the church and maintain those clones even when used up - took a while to set up (Heirophants meditate/sleeping to cast three Wishes per 24 hrs), but made the church rather popular....

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Remember that the 120 days isn't casting time, it happens after casting, so wish isn't going to bypass it

[@ANonymous-bh1un]

@@TreantmonksTemple A Wish spell produces in one Action the end result of a lesser spell - including preparation time and otherwise laborious crafting (like scribing a magic circle for Teleportation Circle or manually scratching on a sapphire for Word of Recall). A DM is free to rule on interpretations as they see fit, but to me that means you skip the four month "baking" time on Clone if you use a Wish since you're negating the windup (including the weeks-long sarcophagus construction time in Clone) ALONG WITH the casting time of any lesser spell. You get the desired effect "now" regardless of how cumbersome it would otherwise be since you used the "ultimate" spell for it.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

@@ANonymous-bh1un what I see is, "The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower. You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect." I'm missing the part where you skip to the "end result of a lesser spell" that you are referring to. It reads to me that the entire spell effect occurs, beginning, middle (even a long middle) and end.

[@evansmith2832]

"Consent is not required"

[@HiryuNikai]

"And when I say we took out ancient dragons using this method, I mean" I took out ancient dragons using this method xD

[@migueldelmazo5244]

If you make a simulacrum of an enemy creature, wouldn't it still be a hostile creature. Is there language in the spell that says you control the creature? Thanks, as always.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

It wouldn't be hostile. The spell specifies that it's friendly and obedient

[@migueldelmazo5244]

Yeah, that's broken. In all my D&D career, I've never played a wizard, but I've certainly targeted a number of NPC ones for quick destruction. In fact, most of my builds are based around killing spellcasters quickly, especially the wizard (hat tip to Davvy Chappy).

[@felipepincelli6466]

I miss the splinter twin in modern :(

[@brabra2725]

Simulacrum has a casting time of 12 hours. How on earth can you use it in combat?

[@stevenwarren5727]

"Consent is not required" LMFAO

[@parheliaa]

I like your ideas, but the team's fighter (or warlock) answer for your plans in combat will be "Why just don't shoot him?" Seriously the most basic 17+ (same level as 9th spells) Sharpshooter Fighter (so he is at range as a wizard), without any min-maxing can have three attacks 1d8+15 in the round. With Action Surge he can have six (total 12 in two rounds). If he is a Battle master he can use a Superiority die to negate -5 penalty. He will hit much more often than monsters fail Saving Throws Oh yes, he can do it again after a Short Rest There is no better debuff than dead, and to kill HP damage is the king. Claiming otherwise is living in denial Yes, a wizard has a Wish+Simulacrum game-breaking combo, but this is an exception to the rule. Some other comments BTW There is one of the most important things which you have to ask DM. if Simulacrum has memories of the original creature? If yes this spell is much more powerful. Meteor Swarm. Until the enemies are packed like a fish in the barrel, its huge AoE is no big deal (see above about damage). Wish, I would never (until the circumstances are really dire) it for anything other than cheat-casting spells. The risk of losing the ability to cast Wish is too great. People ignore one problem with a Clone. it requires 120 days to mature. And no, your DM can rule that Wish will create a clone without any cost, but it still has to grow. Spell Mastery. You forgot Misty step If we are talking about out of combat stuff, then yes wizard has many cool things like Clone (the pic is amazing :D) or Demiplane (but using it as a resting place is a waste. Just use Tiny hut).

[@nightsage217]

Same problem with the concept of " only a dead enemy is considered healing." As long a powerful enemy is having 1hp. It is as dangerous as full hp. Ppl can say they have flying full smite paladin + simulicarum fighter sharpshooter x2 to nuke a place. An almost dead adult dragon is as monstrous as the battle just started. And Chance is... DM wouldnt going to play fair after players hit lev10. Saving throws, hard terrain, aoe. We had once goblin wizards cast heat metals and kite us in wolf squads. Nasty gits.

[@juandelacruz3023]

there is something i dont understand, why do you say you can win a fight just by removing a enemy for a couple of minutes? they will come back sooner or later and so the fight resume

[@cooperton4949]

This content makes me only ever want to play wizards

[@CaitSith87]

Where do i find the art in the video? :)

[@iancampbell4394]

Here's a few... 12:35 vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/oots/images/d/d0/OOTS0627.gif/revision/latest?cb=20160830200129 14:45 img.scryfall.com/cards/large/en/roe/165.jpg?1530592618 20:21 3.bp.blogspot.com/-gNRPClKBrVU/Twzma8v5VJI/AAAAAAAAAIQ/-rElCCi1tlM/s1600/TPK.jpeg

[@lyracian]

Treantmonk what would you be wishing for in games that banned Simulacrum?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I would have to think about that

[@bisonbob9092]

Maybe a Hero's Feast, banquet every night before bed time?

[@davidpowell9376]

Watch Vaarsuvius explain how to use Forcecage!

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I will give a more detailed review of Forcecage when I do my 7th level spell vid

[@bishopofeternity48]

If your not breaking the game, your not wizarding properly 😉.

[@ryvvik]

Wish: "You're gonna cast it on that last round just before you rest." Am I mixing my editions up? Didn't 5th say you basically need a minimum amount of time before you recover a spell slot? Thus casting all of your slots before bed and resting doesn't technically recover any? (Granted, few people play this way, but as a DM I probably would to stop this ^_^)

[@andrecosta8680]

Forcecage is horrible spell I dont know people says its broken

[@Tzoras888]

I waste 5 mins to know if you talk about 3.5 or 5 edition....unfortunately 5