The French Theory: France In The Star Trek Franchise

[@jasonrobbins6944]

I think the line from the TNG episode “Family”: “One man’s dream...” supports the theory. (Returning to the ancestral home and rebuilding their place in the family heritage). Also with a name like Marie, I suspect that she would have been a French refugee as well ala Hercule Poirot (WWI) from Agatha Christie. They may have returned a generation or two earlier and were still rediscovering their unique cultural identity.

[@Trekspertise]

An excellent point we missed!

[@InfoFighter]

Was it your intention to offend Poirot by calling him French instead of Belgian? xD

[@Trekspertise]

@@InfoFighter Absolutely not. We assumed French-speaking Belgian.

[@Trekspertise]

@@InfoFighter we labeled him as "French-speaking."

[@jasonrobbins6944]

@@InfoFighter No, sorry to Hercule. I meant the potentially common status as a refugee sheltered by Britain after the war, not to misrepresent his nationality. Bad wording on my part.

[@Pratchettgaiman]

Anyone who thinks that the French would just “give up” the French language has clearly never met a French person

[@Trekspertise]

Excellent point!

[@concidius]

@@Trekspertise The same has been said of many cultures. A century ago most Germans would have scoffed at English but today they all learn it and its getting into everyday use. Moreover the expansion of English into the Latin, African, and Asian spheres continues to subsume French. English utility only increases as more learn it. Perhaps in time French pride will allow the rise of English or perhaps migrations of peoples that share a common language in English and not French will displace it.

[@grandsome1]

En effet!

[@Pratchettgaiman]

@@concidius oh, too be clear, most French people today speak pretty fluent English, but they are VERY proud of the French language

[@SirWussiePants]

@@concidius Remember that French used to be what English is today (in effect, English has become the "lingua Franca" as odd as it is). Most predictions are English will give way to Chinese or Japanese some day. Then you have Blade Runner or Firefly, I guess

[@theharbingerofconflation]

French is an obscure language to Data because he: 1. was activated first somewhere in space 2. knows an unfathomable amount of languages 3. it is not one of the active main languages as clearly earth chose english.

[@Trekspertise]

Occam's Razor. Maybe the best explanation.

[@dominiquebeaulieu]

Who told you Earth chosed English?

[@Donutgames00]

@@dominiquebeaulieu the Enterprise NX crew speak English and the displays are in English, plus they had no universal translator at that time

[@dominiquebeaulieu]

Earth can not have chosen English : anglophones are only 5% of Earth's population and France would oppose.

[@YorranKlees]

This is a good point. Yet I don't recall Data often qualifying something as obscure aside from this one, thus raising an eyebrow. Either this is a script written too quickly, or this has some meaning that made us come here to talk about it. A third option would be that it was meant on purpose to make us talk about it at some point, but let's not jump into plot theories ;)

[@KAMiKAZOW]

Fun fact about us Europeans: When we learn English, our teachers usually teach British English. Add a year abroad into the mix and we pick up the local accent and the occasional mannerism.

[@duffman18]

It doesn't seem to be universally true. Because I remember years ago when I was in a relationship with this Danish woman, she spoke English with a posh English accent (mixed together with a Danish accent). And as a brit with a posh English accent myself, I loved that about her. It seems like lots of people I meet for whom English is their second language, learn it from American movies and TV shows mostly. Even if they learn the language in school with British accents, the huge amount of American TV shows and movies that exist actually end up influencing their accent more than the school classes do. Because they really _WANT_ to learn English, specially so they can easily watch these movies and TV shows. So usually most people I meet that learned English as a second language, have more of an American accent. Certainly from places like Spain or Germany or France or Italy etc. But especially if they're from places like South America. They have no reason to learn the British accent version of English over there. They're closer to the US, and may want to even emigrate there

[@trojoe]

The need to rebuild France might also help explain why Robert took such deep offense to Jean Luc leaving Earth.

[@Trekspertise]

That's the spirit

[@TheWarrrenator]

I’ve often wondered, “if there’s no money in Star Trek time, why make wine?” The logical conclusion is that other than the estate being a familial home, it would be an industry of cultural significance almost like a living historical reenactment. So that plays into what you’ve postulated, too.

[@scaper8]

@@TheWarrrenator That even plays into his Luddite-esque attitudes in regards to things like replictors. "It's pissing on our cultural heritage to just 'materialize' the stuff. It's pissing on our cultural heritage to 'modernize' our lives too much."

[@antonycharnock2993]

@@TheWarrrenator Everyone likes a drink. Even in the future!

[@antonijaume8498]

@@TheWarrrenator the wine is made for pleasure, and as a personal gift to express affection. That a bottle of wine can be exactly replicated and given the organoleptic properties, is not the same as when it is the produce of people's work. It is not the same if it is a Château Picard than if it is a réplique de Château Picard.

[@LavendelBrei]

My reading of his accent was always that the French language fell out of common use due to globalization and that the British accent took over since they were the closest English speaking neighbors. Many Germans I know speak English with a slight British accent because of who they learned the language from.

[@InfoFighter]

And perhaps because of some catastrophy (perhaps WWIII-related, perhaps not) wine could no longer be cultivated in France for a while and in the meantime the Frenchmen learnd to enjoy their Earl Greay Hot.^^

[@quoniam426]

Reminds me of my British pals getting unsettled after my trip to the US, they hinted that they detected an American accent in my English and they subtlely insulted by it.

[@ImAMassiveBender]

I think there was some push 20 years ago to make EU countries learn British English rather than American English (obviously when UK was an EU member). Christine Lagarde always strikes me as having an English accent.

[@antonycharnock2993]

I'm from northern England (20 miles from where Patrick Stewart grew up) and remember being asked by a Spanish waiter where I was from as he didnt recognise my English accent. He had learnt English in America...

[@KyleJohnsonUK]

this is the most rational explanation. And also, this theory is incredibly Eurocentric.235 millions people speak French as their daily language. 60% of French speakers are outside of France. It is an official Language in 29 countries.

[@-Longinus-]

I too have a theory: Picard had an English teacher with a British accent so that's how Picard learned to speak English. That's it. That is literally what countless people around the world who learn English as a second language do. Also, why there are not similar conspiracy theories about all the people in Star Trek who are not native English speakers yet have native-level American accent? Why is that never considered weird and needing an explanation? As for Data's comments, certainly from galactic perspective a regional language spoken by a small percentage of people on one planet is 'obscure.'

[@exilestudios9546]

has anyone considered that data would call french obscure simply because in the grand scope of the galaxy it is obscure compared to other languages

[@molly-zx9cr]

I just figured he learned English at a British school? I like the idea of the world coming together to bring back a culture

[@Trekspertise]

It is a nice idea =)

[@matthewbloise2155]

Exactly. A wealthy family like his would have the option to send their children abroad; it would also explain why his brother has an accent as well, and his nephew. Having spent a good portion of his childhood there, he would speak English impeccably, and no doubt have picked up on a few British habits. For what it's worth, England does have excellent boarding school (they're called "public schools", strangely) where families have sent their children for generations; it seems logical to assume this tradition would extend into the future as well.

[@barkasz6066]

"Obscure" could be just early Data comparing French to other languages of the Federation or the entire Alpha and/or Beta Quadrants. In a world of universal translators, where Saru complains in the late 2250's that apparently he is the only one who bothered to learn several Human languages, it is not inconcievable that most languages widely spoken today would regress into being spoken by a much smaller core of native speakers.

[@chrisk_nfl4120]

Possibly, but at the same time that would be a case for nearly all of Earth's languages and a lot of Alien languages. The basis of this theory is that Data, a person who can learn sign language in minutes, regards French as obscure and none of the people around him seemed to recognise French that easily, whilst crewmembers in the past have noticed Russian and Spanish in TOS and DS9 respectively. Out of universe explanation is that it's probably an unintentional statement by the writers, and an alternative explanation is that Data may have goofed and got mislead by French. But it's still fun to theorise

[@JaelaOrdo]

Another theory regarding Nations and Star Trek, O’Brien’s suffering is a metaphor for all the things that have happened to Ireland over the centuries. One of my friends said this to me and the more I think about it, the more it seems true, or maybe it’s just a weird coincidence.

[@Drowninginantimatter]

😢 I didnt connect the dots that DS9 was being filmed during the Troubles until season 7. I wonder if the friendship between Bashir, (who is the second most English trek characters who isn’t actually English) and O’Brien was influenced by that.

[@martychisnall]

@@Drowninginantimatter Bashir is English and being brown doesn’t change that.

[@triviabuff5682]

Miles O'Brien isn't just Irish. I saw somewhere that he was born in Killarney, and so should also be a Kerryman.

[@MetaSynForYourSoul]

My theory involves the Borg, time travel, and croissants. I think you're theory is more sound, but mine is more fun.

[@alastairmciver6220]

I had assumed that the Borg, time-travel and croissants elements of the theory weren't mentioned because they go without saying.

[@Trekspertise]

La résistance est futile

[@customfantasyhotwheels]

@MetaSynForYourSoul - It's spelled "YOUR" 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@MetaSynForYourSoul]

@@customfantasyhotwheels Why did you comment this? Did you think I didn't know that? Is that tiny mistake, that if I remember right was the fault of voice typing the comment, worth a face palm? Truly? Is correcting grammar on the internet what you do for fun? Have you never made a mistake? I prob would've corrected it when I saw the comment next, but I'm gonna leave it like that, see how many more like you I get.

[@customfantasyhotwheels]

@@MetaSynForYourSoul - Pride in ignorance, okay, I get it. You do you and continue going about your life lazily "voice typing".

[@davidanderson5310]

My in-universe explanation is that Picard started as a legit French schoolboy. When he went to Starfleet Academy, he became interested in American culture, including Dixon Hill. You can see a bit of "Johnny" Picard's personality in Tapestry. As he climbed the ranks, he sought increasing dignity and respectability, adopted an English accent (possibly with help from the universal translator), and became an anglophile. His tendency towards Shakespeare and Earl Grey is a sign of his interests, not his heritage.

[@Trekspertise]

Good possibilities. And Data's remark?

[@StevenSmyth]

I like this. It certainly explains Picard’s interest in assisting with the Romulans and their efforts to rebuild their culture beyond what The Federation did (or didn’t do) th help.

[@hessanscounty3592]

I think it likely that, rather than France being wiped out and an artificially restored by it’s neighbors, refugees returned to France after it was safe to return and worked to rebuild it. It would explain the mix of cultural elements in Picard’s upbringing. Either way, France must have been restored rather prominently since Paris is the Federation Capital in the 24th century.

[@Mukation]

I've always assumed that Picard is speaking french, but that the translator translates it into Posh english :P

[@TheYopogo]

He has other quite English cultural stuff going on. Like, he loves Shakespeare and Earl Grey and all his favourite literature is English etc.

[@katiecat9353]

And whenever we hear someone speaking in a French accent, that's because they're speaking English so it doesn't translate what they're saying.

[@Mukation]

@@TheYopogo Yeah, but he's also living 350 years in the future, so it's quite possible that during that era France adopted a lot of "old" english customs to the point where it isn't known as english anymore. I mean ever heard the term "swedish meatballs"? Swedish meatballs was given to Sweden by a turkish chef who came to sweden during 1400s... i mean it's become "swedish" over the centuries even if it was turkish from the start. Same thing could be with Picards mannerisms.

[@Mukation]

@@katiecat9353 Exactly! In Discovery there was an episode where the translator malfunctioned, so Pike started speaking with what appeared to be french and later german. I assume germans hear everyone speaking german, swedes speaking swedish etc.... the same with other species's languages.

[@TheYopogo]

@@Mukation That's a very good point, but I think it applies better to food and customs and things more than, for example, literature. Like, I don't think he ever quotes Balzac, but he talks about Shakespeare all the time. Could just be coincidence, lots of French people like Shakespeare even today, but still.

[@vladquebec]

I'm not French, but it's my native language (Québec resident) and I love how deep you've gone in yout analysis. My view has always been 1) Star Trek is a show shot in the US for an American audience. 2) The universal translator doesn't only translate Vulcan and Andorian, but also local earth languages. In a TOS episode, everyone on the ship heard the alien using télépathy in their native language, including Swahili and Russian. It's always fun to theorize! :-)

[@willemvandebeek]

I love these theories, more please! :) Star Trek forgot a lot of nations in Africa and Asia speak French as well, because they were former colonies of France. Did they get destroyed as well in world war 3?

[@Trekspertise]

A good question. Our thinking is no, that those colonies help to recreate France.

[@willemvandebeek]

@Jeremiah Boyd is the third world really that dependent on the US though? o_O

[@lloydy272]

I have wondered some of the same things and have a similar head cannon: that France fell and it's culture changed. I missed the French accent of Picard's mother. One potential explanation that does not involve Picard moving to Britain is that different parts of France were differently affected. Perhaps where the Vinaryed is, is in a region of France that was repopulated by the British after WW3? Perhaps his mother is from a part of France or other French speaking part of the world. Meaning Picard learnt French from his mother but culturally British based on the local part of France and his father?

[@Trekspertise]

That's a solid theory.

[@jordankamelleri5137]

Let's face it, Picard is used as a sort of catch-all European to add interesting character quirks and Earth history tidbits that are beyond the American cultural and historical limitations

[@pipmacrae]

An interesting theory. As a Scot I have always loved the fact that Scotty was from Scotland(even if the accent was little dodgy, ha ha). Looking forward to the new content coming up. I love your video essays.

[@Trekspertise]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@TheYopogo]

I met a guy in Scotland once with the most incredible accent. He was Brazilian and moved there and then learnt English from the locals, so he spoke good English but with a half Brazilian half Highlands/Perthshire accent. To my southern English ear, it was pretty wild.

[@pipmacrae]

@@TheYopogo I love that! Thanks for sharing.

[@user-si3gu8pm6j]

I like this discussion. Interesting extra points: French connection of the captains 1. KIrk (Iowa was former French territory and Shatner is from Montréal) 2. Picard (canonically French and a throwback to marine explorer Jacques Piccard) 3. Sisko (Family hails from New Orleans) 4. Janeway (from Indiana, formerly a portion of Canada/New France) 5. Archer (Scott Bakula is from St.Louis) 6. Georgiou (Michelle Yeoh holds multiple high level French honours)....also it’s interesting to have learned post WWII France was seriously considering joining the Commonwealth of Nations (so, coupled with the Marshall Plan the reconstruction idea makes sense) 🤔

[@Trekspertise]

And let's not forget the actress originally lined-up to play Captain Janeway was a French Canadian, wasn't she?

[@user-si3gu8pm6j]

Of course! How could I forgot about Genevieve Bujold🤦

[@dominiquebeaulieu]

@@Trekspertise Yes! A shame that she refused!

[@JordonMcConnell]

I teach English Language and Civ at uni in France and my best students often are able to adopt the accent similar to Jean-Luc and often also are anglophiles. I have read Jean-Luc similarly. As for obscure French language, Jean-Luc corrects Data right after his statement. "Mr. Data, for centuries the French Language represented civilization on Earth." The usage of "obscure" I took to paint Data's lack of social capacities early on in the series. There are people today (esp in the USA for example) that would call French obscure despite it being the fastest growing language by some measures. When the universal translator malfunctions in "Discovery," French is one of the languages spoken by the crew. Certain times when Hoshi Sato is working in "Enterprise," other languages are also shown. "Picard" furthers this with the presence of Spanish. I've taken a lot of this to mean that from TNG after, the show runners wanted to take some of the American-centric ideals of the original series which seemed to presuppose the eminence of English in the future and "retconned" it to be that the universal translator largely supplanted the need for high-level interpreting for most everyday usages. I think this may be the simple answer, that from ToS to Picard, some of these things have been altered to make Earth-culture more... Earth-like and less "American in space." Even within TNG, the presentation of France changed quite a bit from that first season through to the films. The canon also suggests that the "European Hegemony" and the late (I think) "European Alliance" were one of the key groups in both the world war but also the space race that helped lead to warp drive. TNG has an episode of Irish traditionalists that establish a colony sometime during the early period of Earth's galactic exploration. It would seem traditionalist movements are present throughout different Earth societies in the 24th century, though the idea of a "French reconstruction movement" is an interesting one. Paris as a global capital also seemed an homage by Roddenberry to the city's presence in many treaties I thought. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It would be interesting for the United Earth period and what not to be explored further. On this topic, it would be interesting to see other languages native to Vulcan or Qo'nos and how the universal translator handles them. Perhaps there is an agreed upon language each planet/species chooses as their outward "standard" to ease translation by other species. A multi-layered translation process... Though you can also imagine how this could create issues. Oops, didn't mean to type so much!

[@Ushio01]

All the French words could be loan words in Federation standard like how Japan has adopted English loan words.

[@garret1930]

And how English has adopted loanwords from Japan and many other languages

[@antonijaume8498]

@@garret1930 to be sure, English incorporate a great number of French word received through the Normans nearly a millennium ago.

[@garret1930]

@@antonijaume8498 meh, I know those count as loanwords but I don't really consider them such since the whole Norman conquest thing changed the entire language so drastically. Regardless, you are indeed correct.

[@trekkienzl2862]

I imagine a rebuilding a 🇫🇷 France would involve a while lot of people from 🇨🇦 Quebec being relocated to France since many of those Quebecers think they're more French then the French.

[@Trekspertise]

That...isn't wrong =) Say, are you really from NZ?

[@trekkienzl2862]

@@Trekspertise Yes.

[@Trekspertise]

Just wanna say, I love it. Beautiful place. Made a whole video about traveling around the South island.

[@trekkienzl2862]

@@Trekspertise Thanks

[@Tintin1]

Dans un sens, oui ils sont plus français! ^^ Ils n'utilise pas beaucoup d'anglicismes alors que les français tendent à en incorporer dans le dictionnaire. Donc oui ils parlent mieux français!

[@oneoftheorder]

It's worth noting that, if I remember correctly, France's nuclear posture is designed *not* to prevent it's destruction in an nuclear exchange, but to preserve enough firepower to exact retribution afterward (which is to say: they rely heavily on nuclear submarines, among other choices regarding their nuclear disposition.)

[@midnightwatchman1]

fun fact after world war II Britain and France actually investigated merging the two countries. they formed a committee to investigate the process and to see if it was feasible

[@Patrick-jj5nh]

didnt tom harris spend a lot of his time in france around the time he was a cadet? thats why he recreated a french bar on the holodeck - i think set in marseille?

[@Tintin1]

C'est exact!

[@Trekspertise]

He did, and we cut some clips out from the final video discussing as much!

[@briangallentine3810]

I thought his sur name is Perris (sp?)?

[@Patrick-jj5nh]

@@briangallentine3810 yup whoops ;0

[@lightbearer313]

@@Patrick-jj5nh It's Paris - same spelling as the capital of France. ;-)

[@bromleyben2004]

"Hypothesis" would be a better word to use, but yeah a very cool idea! :-)

[@melon_man_dan6888]

I always thought Picard had an English accent because most French people that learn English learn it from UK English speakers. So the English that French people try to imitate is that from the UK. Picard is probably just really good at English because people in Europe learn languages better than the US and I’m sure education methods for other languages are more advanced.

[@15oClock]

Probably nothing so drastic, but I won't say this is impossible.

[@matthewkreps3352]

Here's an idea: Data was trolling Picard with the obscure language comment.

[@roguestar8]

Something that always bothered me was in the episode 'Family'. They're at the dinner table and say cheers by saying "Salut" which sounds similar to Spanish where the word for cheers is "Salud" (health). For cheers we say "Santé" (which also means health) in French. "Salut" just means "Hello"

[@SciFlyGal]

Picard’s accent is the least weird part of it. He’s portrayed as an over achiever, so it makes sense that if starfleet uses English he would have learned it to native fluency. Picard was European, so he would have learned an English accent. I lived in Europe for several years and that was very common.

[@-Longinus-]

Exactly. But Americans always seem to think that anyone learning to speak English at native level is a bizarre and needs and explanation... unless the accent they learn is American, then it is perfectly normal and warrants no comment!

[@livewire98801]

To be fair, if you're from France (or any other European country), and you work very hard to learn and be fluent in English, and learned to speak it without an accent... you'd have a British accent. And if you have a decent amount of higher education helpful to go into Starfleet's command training program as an entry cadet, you'd probably go to a British university for at least a while first.

[@89Keith]

Easy explanation, the french language fell into disuse when it was discovered that French is incompatible with universal translators (having been designed this way by the British inventor solely to annoy the french) and so to be able to communicate with other species they had to be fluent in other languages, leading to its decline. Hence when characters speak french it is heard as french as it wasnt translated by the universal translator.

[@Axemantitan]

I think Gene Roddenberry was just making it up as he went along and that is why TOS and season 1 of TNG are so rife with inconsistencies. Things didn't really get fleshed out until he was no longer directly involved with production.

[@DataEntity]

According to Memory Alpha, the population of the federation is just shy of a trillion sentients (985 billion). Currently the French languake is estimated to grow by 6 million - first and second language - users per annum. That would mean ~1.8 billion users by the 24th century or about 0.2 % of the Federation population. Thus constituting a obscure language, despite continuous healthy growth for three centuries.

[@laotasurfs1110]

Data saying, "I am a Frenchman" is adorable. I'll never know how Spiner played that character with a straight face.

[@maxiemaxwell550]

When I heard the mention of Data calling French and obscure language, my first thought was that that moment was more about comedic character building for our favorite android. I am happy to say that the rest of the video is so well-reasoned as to prove me utterly, utterly wrong.

[@MarkKoltkoRivera]

Re. WW3: I find it interesting that there are no in-universe contemporary references to New York City, Los Angeles, Washington, DC, London, Moscow, or Beijing--suggesting that these were all obliterated in WW3. However, there _are_ contemporary in-universe references to San Francisco (where Starfleet is based) and New Orleans (where Ben Sisko's family's restaurant is located). This makes perfectly good sense, as neither SF or Nola are of military significance. I find your "French Resurrection" theory to be quite interesting, indeed.

[@katakisLives]

I think all the cities you listed got glassed in ww3 Washington DC and new York would be prime targets interestingly part of LA is underwater according to Janeway in voyager due to an earth quake

[@roryscott2941]

France being bombed to near extinction in WW3 is the theory my father and I had for Picard's accent too. Nice to know we were not alone

[@water594]

Okay but you fail to consider the Picard-UT theory. Jean Luc is always speaking French and the UT is just working extra hard and on his personal settings if make it into British English.

[@karlmajerus6263]

I hate to rain on this theory, but per everything I have ever read; the capitol of the Federation bis in Paris since before Kirk. The reason french are s archaic is there same for most Earth languages. Most people speak anglish - a form of English that became Federation standard.

[@DarkstarAlpha]

It seems like a bit of a stretch to take one line Data says and deduce that the French lost their culture during WWIII, to some greater extent than any other country. Certainly Paris seems to have survived the war intact, considering the Eiffel Tower is still standing whenever the city is visited. While it could have been recreated as part of a grand reconstruction effort, it seems like a lot of resources to devote to an entirely cosmetic recreation and the simplest explanation remains that it was never destroyed in the first place. The fact that the seat of power of the Federation resides in Paris rather indicates to me that the city and possibly the country at large survived the war *better* than the rest of the planet did. Compare that with Washington D.C., a city that never gets any mention in the Star Trek Universe beyond the late 20th Century and that has clearly been displaced by San Francisco as the dominant city in North America. It's also important to remember that even if France itself suffered more from WWIII that the language is spoken by hundreds of millions outside of Metropolitan France and they wouldn't just drop the language from what happened during the war in Europe. Regardless to what happened to France and the French people during WWIII, the fact that Hiroshima and Nagasaki are thriving cities today makes it hard to believe that after 300 years the country is still resettling refugees from overseas. Overall, I think Data's sentence, interpreted in-universe, has to take in context the size of the Federation - what he considers a 'major language' may be only the lingua franca (hehe) of the main member species, like Vulcan and Andorian, while Federation Standard appears to be English, from the text on various starships and facilities. In that context, even a language spoken by hundreds of millions on a single planet may be considered obscure. I do like the idea that the Picard family has some background in Britain as an explanation for Picard's 'Britishness', and only later in their lives settled back in France which they may still consider their homeland. But as pointed out, this is only a single family history and it's again a bit much to extrapolate that to the rest of the country still being in a state of recovery.

[@theeNappy]

Or Piccard just likes English tea because it's tasty and quotes Shakespeare because Shakespeare is amazing and speaks with a British accent because he learned English from a brit.

[@Geekus]

Though I will delight in all that comes out from Trekspertise at any pace, I am especially stoked to see a take on Vulcan history akin to your magnificent Klingon history two-parter.

[@Trekspertise]

"The Vulcan Diaspora" is definitely a topic we've written up and are looking to create ;)

[@solarcorona9760]

1. Data was being a pain again. 2. If the question is 'what happened to france?' then the question 'what happened to britain?' has the same merit.

[@SgtxAnus]

"Or when Picard did an accent." lol we dont talk about *those* shows.

[@SophiesDriver]

Coquelles France is 50.5 railway miles from Folkestone UK via the Channel Tunnel ( (31 miles from Calais France to Dover UK by commercial automobile/walk on ferry). France and the UK have shared a basically open border for decades. Thousands commute each way every day for work, shopping, etc. Many, many British people in the UK speak French. Many, many French people in France speak English. None of what I have asserted above is theory, or fiction. The French and the British cultures have had a lot in common, since before modern France and modern UK, beginning with the Norman invasion of England, at the Battle of Hastings, in 1066. You might want to get out a little more. Thumbs up on the video though. If you're in the US, Happy Thanksgiving from California, if not, then Happy Thursday :-)

[@maxrutc09]

Maybe this explains why they don't speak French in France, but what about around the world. The DRC has more French speakers than France

[@krymz1]

3:05 "ah yes, we are everything females from Paris" - Picard

[@jameshead9119]

There is the fact a large portion of western France has belonged to England at one time or anther so there’s a possibility that during the time of chaos that England reacquired some of it The Port of Calais with the channel tunnel being seen as a major gateway into into the UK would want to keep control of ) at the start of any conflict followed by expanding down the coast

[@jenniferwilliams9612]

It is great to have a new video from you guys! Please keep them coming.

[@Trekspertise]

We will!

[@TheYopogo]

I always imagined it's just a matter of having had centuries of an open, global society with freedom of movement and cultural exchange; so by the 24th century you just naturally get elements of British and French culture bleeding into one another. In a world where nationalism has been gone for centuries, it's entirely conceivable that someone would see no contradiction between identifying proudly with French heritage and also having significant elements of English culture too.

[@Izznogood76]

So I'm from one country but I have lived in another country for 33 years, I speak both langues, the adopted countrys language I speak with a local accent since I learned it from a young age of 11(the locals hear it as thair own accent) My country of origin language I speak with the adopted language accent. A lot of 2nd or 3rd generation children often speak 3 languages at the same level, so Picard is a multicultural person that has this ability to speak English better than French just like me and and others that has moved from one place to another.

[@CaptRobau]

You have good points and some less good points: -There is only one reference to French being an obscure language and dozens examples of there being nothing wrong with France. -I like the explanation of Picard and his brother growing up in England. That would solve that problem and leaves only Data's Code of Honor remark as the basis for this theory. -While France accounts for the lion's share of French's native speakers there are still other native speakers and in France hundreds of millions who use it as a second language. Obliterate France and the French language still isn't obscure.

[@summertilling]

I agree. I would propose that Data was just unaware of the cultural importance of French to humans from Earth, despite it being an obscure language in the context of the whole Federation.

[@CaptRobau]

@@summertilling I think that makes more sense.

[@alastairmciver6220]

I think the line is a plot-hole. An analytical android would not say something as imprecise and subjective as "obscure"; nor would he, with Federation values ingrained in his programming, be a dick about someone else's culture.

[@Trekspertise]

Good points. So how to we rectify Data's comment in-universe?

[@CaptRobau]

@@Trekspertise Looking at what other have written, I propose this: Data meant it was an obscure language in the context of the Federation. Picard didn't understand that, so got annoyed. Data agreed that it was important on Earth, but was cut off before he could explain his Federation-centric intention. In later years Data would learn more about interacting with humans and would understand that they like to look at things more human-centric. He would not have made the comment 6-7 years later. Naturally out-of-universe, they just liked to throw stuff in to make it sound futuristic. If you thought this was an easy theory, try to explain in-universe the early TNG references to the Klingons having joined the Federation (Samaritan Snare, Matter of Honor). I dare you :D

[@kadmii]

I remember reading something about how, during the late Victorian Period, it had become fashionable among the well-to-do of France to speak French with a British accent. With the way that English has been replacing local language (I know some people in Europe who have described a predicament of being able to describe things in English better than in their own native language, through overuse), I wouldn't be surprised if English simply is the predominant language on Earth. Regions that currently have an established English accent/dialect maintain it (Scotty, Americans/Canadians, O'Brien, the Indian captain of the USS Yorktown in Star Trek IV, McCoy & Tripp, etc) continue to maintain prestige forms of each. Regions that don't currently have an established English accent have much more wiggle room. In France, perhaps, French is used as an at-home language and everyone just uses English for convenience. In Southern Tyrol, there is a habit of using Italian in public conversation and German in at-home conversation. Perhaps with that, some French go so far as to adopt the nearest prestige accent of English, that is, British English. Perhaps we can go as far as saying that northern France has become part of the UK (British monarchs continued to claim the title of King of France up until 1801; maybe they finally won), and so the "Queen's English" is also the prestige accent of northern France, and that Picard's mom comes from southern France! French nationalism can then be similar to the way that the English, Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Irish sometimes feel particularly nationalistic about their particular nation of the UK. This particular scenario may fit with your theory -- after WWIII, the UK expanded to absorb a portion of northern France as part of its rehabilitation efforts there

[@Trekspertise]

Interesting theorizing!

[@jimbopumbapigsticks]

Okay, different theory: by the time Picard is born, France owns Britain, or at least parts of the South of England. Maybe one aspect of WW3 is a conflict between the UK and France (the two biggest military powers in Europe) in which France succeeds in conquering parts of the UK. A lot of English people thus become French citizens. Picard is therefore de jure "French" but is de facto English. In the decades that follow, there's a lot of integration between British France and continental France, hence the dilution of the French language.

[@JosephDickson]

I played with the idea that under a united Earth government cultural institutions would continue to grow and thrive as they always have. Kinda like breaking up the United States or Canada into states and provinces. Part of a larger organization is just the beginning, each one is very unique and different.

[@TMMx]

I think you might be reading too much into what Data says about French, since Picard seems to be offended by his assertion that French is obscure.

[@Trekspertise]

Ok, then why is Picard British-speaking but French and Scotty Scottish-speaking and Scottish?

[@TMMx]

@@Trekspertise Many, probably even most, of the few French folks who speak perfect English speak it with an English accent, because that’s the closest place to learn it.

[@quentinarrius]

​@@Trekspertise Well my instinctive answer would be the difficulty to find a suitable french speaking actor for the role. The idea of imitating a french accent during the course of the series was tried but deemed unsatisfactory. Thus abandoned, making this more of a technical constraint than an intentional creative choice in which we should read significant meaning. Besides, France's culture and language cannot be eradicated by blowing up the country as a very significant proportion of the french diaspora lives abroad, and not even talking about french speaking countries. The idea that burning a land would be enough to burn all of its culture and language doesn't work for a country in which London contains so much of its citizens that it could count as its 5th biggest city. But now, it is me who is reading too much into it. Haha. Eventually Star Trek is about various themes and ideas. The idea that the french could have been taking a hit and been "repaired" as a world wide healing process sounds all very Trekky to me! But too hard to swallow. I prefer to think that all culture influenced each other and that all countries and origins are being represented in Trek. To say that "all the countries are represented, but not this one, because it basically got blewed up" is interesting, in a post apocalyptic future. But in Trek, it's a missed opportunity to represent all of humanity. I believe that there is no hard cannon about this, and I'm pretty sure that none of the writers really cared. ^^

[@LokNarash]

@@Trekspertise What language is education done in in the Federation / on Earth? Maybe it is done in British English. Additionally, maybe Starfleet training facilities in Europe are located in the current UK

[@TheWarrrenator]

I think it’s like, Data’s opinion... man!

[@SergioLongoni]

what if french in the star trek universe is like Latin or ancient Greek in ours? An obscure language that no one really uses but is often quoted in other languages?

[@unvergebeneid]

The really weird thing about Picard is that he mispronounces his own name. The 'd' should be silent.

[@Stress-Free-K]

I do love love love your essays. Missed them dearly. My headcanon always assumed that all the great languages of Earth were deemed obsolete after WWIII. A new world order emerged with "Federation Standard" (as you call it) adopted as a way to enhance harmony. between nations. Naturally, Federation Standard (FS) would resemble English a great deal. Because somebody's gotta win. Of course, regional dialects would still persist, if not thrive. I don't recall any crew people from any of the seasons speaking FS as a second language unless they were from another world. No doubt the Academie Francaise would still exist. But people would study French in much the same way they might study Latin today. Also, it seems I must have missed you mentioning your upcoming Discovery highlights. Unless your multi-verse essay will touch on Disco's breach into dimensions that were once thought to be the realm of the dead. Raised by Wolves is brilliant. And can't wait to dip my big toe into Garden of the Gods. Thanks for bringing us your thoughtful commentary and Treksperise.

[@bethopenshaw2042]

what is Garden of the gods please?

[@Stress-Free-K]

@@bethopenshaw2042 As the clip says ...There's a lil Tell-Tale Heart / The Raven with Netflix's "You" vibe on deck. Looks well shot and most importantly, real legit acting. Can't wait. - kzbin.info/www/bejne/kImlo56Oq9qWnNU

[@Trekspertise]

Sure thing! Thanks for watching all of this nonsense =)

[@Stress-Free-K]

@@Trekspertise Omg without utter and complete nonsense to escape into, our current realities would be too too much to bear.

[@bigdopamine9343]

Except we know that Paris still exists and that star fleet has facilities there. Also Picard lives in France, on a winery. The fact that the French language is no longer used doesn’t mean the French culture disappeared. Because it clearly didn’t. World war 3 destroyed many cities obviously but France doesn’t seem to have faired any worse than any other country.

[@katakisLives]

I think Russia and the United States got the worst of it

[@quoniam426]

In TNG's Code of Honor French translation, Data refers to 'Old French', not current French. It might just be an ignorant American point of view from the writers. TNG was still in its infancy and character development is often sloppy during these early seasons. It is probable that the writers just dound the said expression and thought, as a cliché that it was still in use in the 80s... 'Sacrebleu' is not used anymore in France. for example. The theory, for what it's worth can make sense but I might be too much biased as a French myself to fully buy it. As for me, I see more of a joint effort from French and international aid to rebuild France but it was not entirely destroyed although it must have suffered a great deal of damage during WW3. And finding British actors is still easier for an American based production than finding French actors that will need to be dubbed to be understood in English which might be cumbersome to the audience, audience can manage a few sentances in Klingon every now and then, but having a very badly spoken English, (in the 80s, no French actors could have stood the role in English and been taken seriously enough, having good English speaking French actors is very recent (also in the genral population, French are slowly getting better at speaking English but trust me, it wasn't the case 40 years ago ! look at Macron... and look at a few years ago when Sarkozy was president, the Minister for Foreign affairs, PhilDouse Blazy didn't know a single word of Enfglish ! WTF for the first diplomat of the country... they had to postpone meetings with Condolezza Rice, the US equivalent at the time, several times to find a suitable translater... ) So what I mean, is that you can't really forge a theory on what the series material gives you, it is biased by production methods, audience needs and actors availability. Also we can assume that the big warlike relations between France, UK and Spain throughout the centuries will have different family branches scattered in the 3 countries as well.

[@StraightUpHandle]

When Worf’s parents speak, they are speaking federation standard in standard, when Picard speaks, he is speaking French and being translated in real time. (Maybe)

[@datbreh1048]

OOOOO Altered Carbon and Raised by Wolves!!!!! I love the channel. Keep it up! Can we here more about other countries too?

[@Trekspertise]

More to come!

[@kaveharzie4967]

7:09: France wasn't Catholic. The French Revolution saw to that. Trafalgar was also a Napoleonic Wars battle. It's probably better to say that it pitted Napoleonic France & Spain against Britain. . .

[@ChanupaBellGrande]

Love to see your channel show up on my feed

[@Trekspertise]

We love being there :)

[@passatboi]

The majority of French speakers now live in Africa. French-speaking Africa is one of the largest growing French speaking populations. Francophone Africa has more people than France and Quebec.

[@hexzinggaming5040]

Maybe French is only obscure from a galactic standpoint. I mean billions if not trillions speak Klingon or Romulan so by galactic standards French with only a few million speakers would be obscure by comparison.

[@grahamstoner]

From my time in France, especially rural France, you will barely see any young French people. They've all moved to the cities. Now those quaint, typically French villages are full of British expats that only socialise with other British expats. My aunt has lived there for years and can't speak French. If France was culturally destroyed by a major war, then all that would remain would be the very British rural areas.

[@sunspot42]

I think the theory has it exactly wrong. I think France was one of the few countries to survive WWIII largely intact. Possibly they were neutral in the conflict. Hence why the Paris we saw in The Undiscovered Country (where it’s the Federation capital) and “We’ll Always Have Paris” appears largely intact, right down to the Eiffel Tower. It would also explain how a United Earth government arose out of Europe - it was started by and anchored in France. As for the Picard family, who knows. Maybe they were wealthy and maintained homes in France and the UK. Maybe Jean-Luc and his brother grew up and went to school in England or Scotland, and only returned to Chateau Picard as adults after their father died and whatever business they had in the UK closed or was sold off or simply ended with their father (maybe he was working for someone else). There’s more evidence France came out of WWIII in better shape than the rest of the world than in worse shape. Their agricultural dominance might explain how the Picard family became so international, and also why Europe unified first after the war, and why Paris was chosen as the Federation capital and not DC, London, New York, Tokyo, Beijing or Moscow.

[@chrisinnes2128]

All of those city may not exist any more in the star trek universe

[@jack1701e]

That theory sounds really good, it feels like it fits the universe.

[@TJtheHuman]

Another factor is that French could also be considered a classical language, an ancestor of several languages. French varies, especially in France.

[@gregorybrian]

Note: French was also formed from the Frankish language which was Germanic.

[@passatboi]

As a child, I watched the Sound of Music and heard all the Austrians speaking with British accents. When I asked my mother about this, she replied “most well-off families sent their children to boarding school in England, where they acquired the English accent.” Picard’s family could’ve done that. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@SlimThrull]

Wonderful! Now could someone explain why Spock has a Boston accent? (Admittedly, Leonard Nimoy did a pretty good job of hiding it. But there were a few scenes where it came out.)

[@apeiron-logos]

Ce serait triste, mais la théorie est intéressante... Thanks for the video ;)

[@essexexile]

*Britain not England. The act of Union had happened by the time of Trafalgar so it’s Britain. It’s like me saying that California dropped the bomb on Japan.

[@LucasSkylarScott]

Great video! Good to see you!

[@caatabatic]

I respectfully disagree, hundreds of worlds in the federation, relatively it's gonna be small without needing a war.

[@TheRanblingjohnny]

It's kind of a running gag that the guy with the worse French accent on all of Star Trek is playing the most famous French character of all of trek. As for who and what places survived WW3 the shows and movies never really say. But I mostly assume that if a episode visit a place on earth post ww3 and it in good shape it got out okay. Paris and San Francisco get visited a lot New York and London not so much. Maybe that's the other way around and the only reason Picard is a British sounding guy from France is that the UK got nuked.

[@katakisLives]

We see London in the Kelvin timeline never seen new York city so have to assume it was glassed

[@DissociatedWomenIncorporated]

It's not just the Picards, though. That guy who wanted to poach Picard for a project to raise an artificial continent from the sea floor also spoke with an English accent. My own personal theory has always been that La Barre took in enough English refugees during WW3 that the local accent became British sounding, but places like Paris retained a French accent.

[@maxfederman9291]

I think you’re overthinking it a bit. The world is a smaller place in Picards time. He probably grew up in France and went to the UK for school during the day.

[@Trekspertise]

Also a good explanation

[@CAPTAIN_D-MAN]

Drinking tea a lot makes one British? I guess Russians are Brits too. I can't live without Earl Grey.

[@Trekspertise]

Actually, they are all Chinese :)

[@LokNarash]

Please leave an entire phonetic library of your soothing voice. We might need it fir iur future starship computers. :-)

[@chewu]

I'm still upset they never used Majel Barrett's phonetic library for PIC

[@Trekspertise]

I mean...Kyle is down.

[@DetachedJoy]

Welcome back. You've been missed!

[@Trekspertise]

Good to be back. New video in a few weeks.

[@TrollDuke]

C'est une explication assez pertinente, comme toujours. That's a relevant explanation, as always.

[@wanotoo]

to me, raised in France and learned English, Picard's accent when he talks French is very hard to understand

[@gregorybrian]

What about the fact that most French speakers live outside France? Even if France were to be bombed into oblivion, French wouldn’t have disappeared.

[@tomchapmanmusic]

Basically, Jean-Luc learnt English "well" wherever he was. Whatever the socio-economic sitch in the future, his family have a Chateau and a vinyard, so vestiges of class remain. So great to hear from you again! As an English person/Person that lives in Great Britain/Citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland/Citizen of (for now) The European Union... I have a couple of thoughts! Firstly - all of those classifications mentioned above mean different things, which I'm sure are infuriating to outsiders! I could add Southern, educated 60/40 at State/Private school plus half a life lived in the West Midlands to explain my own accent. On top of that, it's typical for us to shift slightly depending on context, so ingrained are class differences in our culture. Pat Stew is a native Yorkshireman, displaying absolutely none of it through his Shakespearean RP. Secondly - I know so many people from different parts of Europe with English accents influenced by their cultural introduction to English. For example, I know a Swedish music producer who sounds like he's a working class Londoner when speaking English, because he watched so many Prodigy documentaries when he was young. One of my best friends is Anglo-Spanish and whilst identifying predominantly as Spanish, her English accent is classic RP, whilst her Spanish is very rural. My third, perhaps most important point, would be Riker's smirk as Data suggests French is obscure. This is early, super-struggle Data - his classification as obscure might have a purely statistical basis. Even now, as accents die off, the English are very good at spotting really quite minor geographical differences. Picard's Shakespearean RP is literally the go-to "Proper English" accent. It's almost place-less (although usually more likely southern, which he is not) and says more about class than geography. If anything, it points more to him being French and well-educated than having spent any extended period of time in a particular region of England. It's all about who he learnt English from, not where. So yeah, France survived and Picard learnt English "properly" at a relatively young age.

[@evangreen3080]

Or...Data meant French is obscure because Earth is but one of 150+ Federation memberworlds, in a galaxy of thousands of language-using alien species, with still more in the millions or billions of years of galactic history. If you're human, you're more likely to learn English or Spanish or Mandarin or Hindi or perhaps another language that may take off in the centuries hence (Africa is currently experiencing a population explosion -- maybe they're bigger players after the Third World War), or maybe even a Martian or Alpha Centaurian offshoot of an Earth language. I find that more likely, and less skin-crawling, than France AND ALL THE OTHER NATIONS THAT SPEAK FRENCH GLOBALLY being destroyed only not.

[@Trekspertise]

It is a terrible suggestion. So what is a less violent explanation?

[@evangreen3080]

@@Trekspertise that it’s “obscure” in that it’s the 10th most spoken language on Earth, the 896th most spoken in the Federation, and the 29,765th most in the known galaxy.

[@evangreen3080]

Maybe it’s the 15th most spoken language on Earth behind fun Andorian and the exquisitely efficient Modern Vulcan too. Also Tiburonian is both easy to pick up and cozily layered. Napean basically is French only their r’s are different. No one has the heart to tell them.

[@Jules_Diplopia]

With the current situation in the UK and with a proposed WW3 to take into account, it seems unlikely in the extreme that England (for that is all that will remain of the UK) would be in any position to resurrect France. Much more likely that it would be French speakers from Quebec. And the Englishness of Jean Luc, well that is unlikely to have come from what we now call England. More likely to have come from a New England (no not the one in the US) but where that might reside is hard to see.

[@Trekspertise]

A new NEW England? Oh boy.

[@Stonks05]

you forget picard corrects data after that quote

[@Videoman2000]

Actually Picard descends from the family of Auguste, Jacques and Betrand Piccard, which are all famous explorer, but a actually Swiss. So at some point in the last 21st or 22nd century, some people of the family migrated to France and changed their to Picard.

[@mothafraker]

By the 24th century the people of France speak Federation Standard with English accents.😂

[@daddyleon]

1:37 surely a universal translator could make language that are about to go extint start to thrive! Not only does that mean you can stay in touch with everyone while not having to learn their language, you won't even have loanwords entering the languages because there's no inspiration/contamination, because everything just gets translated. Bilingualism would likely not really be needed and be less frequent. Regional languages could thrive.

[@Trekspertise]

GREAT point.

[@daddyleon]

@@Trekspertise Thanks for the compliment!

[@professorx1935]

Don't forget Lieutenant Paris and his French hollodeck program.