Dulwich Hill Tram Traffic Priority Sydney

[@JohnSmith-sh1cu]

Very interesting video. This line is a good one in that it takes advantage of an used freight corridor and doesn't interfere with traffic. They are now building the Light rail to Circular Quay and towards Randwick/Kingsford. As far as I understand these new lines follow much of the same route used by the former tram lines? The only difference being that part goes under Moore Park and part runs alongside Anzac Pde/under it, as opposed to along it? There is even talk of further extending it back to La Perouse. From what I've seen, the median strip along Anzac Parade between Kingsford to La Persouse still remains and could be re-used by the trams once more.

[@OntarioTrafficMan]

4 minutes into the tram ride, and I think we've already spent more time at red lights than the entire Gold Coast video! Looks like there's a lot of room for improvement...

[@tressteleg1]

+reaperexpress If you think the traffic light delays on the Sydney line are bad, you should take a look at my tram priority videos for Melbourne and especially Adelaide and you will see that Sydney is not so bad. Nevertheless with the new lines being built in Sydney, one would hope that traffic light priority is very much better.

[@cityplanner3063]

It has been like this for over 20 years lol

[@15sixmedia]

This is by far the best video on KZbin showing the complete line. I keep coming back and watching it. It’s study material for me, I start in this position pretty soon, so I’ll be doing the same thing.

[@tressteleg1]

Im very pleased to be able to help in this way. Just a few things have changed since, such as speed limits. If you would like to contact me direct, email using tressteleg(at)icloud.com Write the usual symbol for (at) Regards,

[@15sixmedia]

tressteleg1 It’s fascinating to be back here 12 months on and see how things have changed network wise since this video. We now have to do 25 km/h through all sets of points.

[@tressteleg1]

Hi. Nice to hear from you again. How are you enjoying the job? I like to stay up to date with what is going on in a tramway and there is no better way than to hear it from somebody ‘on the inside’. Would you like to contact me by email using tressteleg(at)icloud.com Use the normal symbol instead of (at). Many Thanks....

[@joeygardner88]

I find it rather amazing how slow this line is despite the majority of it being grade-separated.

[@tressteleg1]

I rode it last night. Even slower. Tunnel speed was 80. Now 60. It just ambles along.

[@joeygardner88]

@@tressteleg1 Wow, really? Yeesh.

[@tressteleg1]

😡

[@gardenman3]

The trams should have priority on signal lights.

[@tressteleg1]

+gardenman3 Apart from the Gold Coast line, all Australian tramways are in desperate need of much improved traffic light priority.

[@jameslipscomb4916]

It’s really not that bad considering it’s only 8% of the entire line

[@sydbussie]

as an ex govt bus driver, we always asked for more priority at lights.....NOPE even the bus lanes weren't wide enough. I think the T buses have a good priority system.

[@kwv4865]

sydbussie and under Campbell Newman, bus lanes were removed, as I think he claims bus lanes were causing congestion.

[@kwv4865]

Also Clem Jones former Lord Mayor of Brisbane removed the tram lines and as what is happening now with increasing congestion, removing the tram lines was a stupid move and yet Clem got a sports centre named after him.

[@marklindupp6452]

Great video - geez it's a slow service to start with!

[@MensAsses33]

Please put in the description exactly where this is. Remember you have a worldwide audience 🙂

[@tressteleg1]

Done! It is Sydney.

[@vijgai3]

I take this line daily from Central to Pyrmont Bay for work. It's not this bad during peak hour. Lights change pretty quickly. The really slow going is just in the CBD section right outside Central to about Paddy's Markets. It's mainly due to the very high pedestrian traffic who cannot be trusted to obey the lights.

[@tressteleg1]

Thanks for your update. My local line is the Gold Coast one which seems to have much better timekeeping overall.

[@kingawags]

This line actually used to be a freight corridor from the docks if I'm not mistaken. Crazy to think you can lightrail shortcut your way right over the top of the city on it now..

[@kingawags]

To be a fly on one of the many 81/8200s that ran these tracks.. QR 40+rake quad loco's too.

[@tressteleg1]

+Trav Mihelich Old railway tracks are sometimes used for light rail worldwide. The roundabout journey does not matter too much if it is faster than going by bus or especially car. I regret the loss of the electric locos more than anything else.

[@paulmurray8766]

awesome vid thank you for this brill posting i realy enjoyed it

[@UltimaSpark50]

Seeing the site of the former Sydney Entertainment Centre being completely worked over and Tumbalong Park's fountains being removed is like watching a bit of my childhood vanish...

[@tressteleg1]

+AquaRing Welcome to the age of adulthood :-( Imagine how I felt seeing tramline after tramline disappear from all the streets of Sydney as I was growing up. Steam trains disappeared, the list goes on and on.

[@georgeronn1263]

I’m not sure how I missed this video when it was first presented. Nice ride, though you are right about the delays in the CBD. Is the majority of the route an old freight or passenger rail right of way that was repurposed, or was the created specifically for the light rail.

[@tressteleg1]

The video is now several years old so it may have appeared before you were regular to this channel. For the L1, the ramps up to and down from the railway colonnade were used by trams from 1901 until 1957. New track of course now, and all of the track along Hay Street is new alignment. However from the moment we line turn right onto the reservation, the rest of the route is former freight railway with no passenger service. It had earlier connected the Central Station area with Rozelle Bay wharves, and also from Rozelle Bay to the freight railway at Dulwich Hill. Freight traffic ended about the time the tramway was built.

[@brianmorris8045]

Dulwich Hill, my old hunting(or was it haunting) ground. It is a wonder the tram even got there. The old boneshakers that Askin ripped out years ago got there quicker...lol

[@tressteleg1]

+Brian Morris You are not the only one to see that this is not a very fast ride :-)

[@joelk4751]

I noticed a sign in the 1st few minutes, "Light Rail Vehicles Excluded." Is there a difference in Australia between Light Rail and trams, or are the terms interchangeable?

[@tressteleg1]

+joel k That sort of sign usually is a command for road traffic to turn or not turn somewhere but that trams (obviously) are exempted from the command. When entering Reserved Track, Sydney's first tramway used to have a quaint sign which said 'DO NOT FOLLOW TRAM' to do much the same.

[@aussiegaigin]

Referred to as Light rail for political promotion purposes (people have negative images of "trams"). But the stops are "Tram Stop", and warning signs at pedestrian crossings over the lines warn to "Beware of Trains".

[@joesix-pack4022]

They call them 'light rail' in Sydney, not trams. In Melbourne they have trams. The Sydney 'light rail' is very slow and in peak periods becomes extremely crowded.

[@tressteleg1]

Apparently Sydney uses either names in different places. As far as I can figure out, the builders of new tramways don’t want the dirty old-fashioned word tram used, so came up with the name of light rail, even though there is negligible difference between tramcars and light rail vehicles.

[@joesix-pack4022]

@@tressteleg1 Interesting how there is a fad for light rail in Australia at the moment. Canberra is also ripping up its streets and cutting down hundreds of trees so they too can have an extremely expensive toy train! It makes me think of 'The Simpsons' episode in which the townsfolk of Springfield are conned into building a very expensive and impractical mono-rail!

[@tressteleg1]

I would not call it a fad. More an awakening to the folly of all English speaking nations largely scrapping their tramways in the 1950s and 60s. I keep fairly up to date on Trams Down Under. Sydney is grossly overbuilt and poorly managed. Newcastle is a toy used to fob off locals for cutting back the electric trains from Sydney. I can’t say I have read any descriptions of Canberra a being a toy or overpriced. The local government won power on a pledge to built the tramway and I think it opens next month. My local Gold Coast line and its extension to a total of 20km was built to budget and daily ridership is around 30,000 and this is in a region too new to have had trams before.

[@MrMondeo2010]

bravo for good video.

[@tressteleg1]

👍

[@marcconyard5024]

Having ridden this tram many times I have to say the service is poorly facilitated compared to Melbourne. Dwell times at stops as you demonstrated is far too long and traffic signals have their programming set to include the trams as almost a inconvenient tack-on to everything else. There needs to be an improvement in pedestrian interaction to allow these trams to operate at higher speeds. Still, with what is about to eventuate with the new system being unable to flex into the existing lines improving efficiency must be last on the planners' minds. As for your comment on "ticket check", take it from someone who works with opal on the buses, it is highly unreliable and many of the passengers simply rip off the system by tapping off not long after they board. The government must be loosing a fortune.

[@tressteleg1]

I would not hold up Melbourne as a good example of how to run trams fast. The only line in Australia, apart from the former railway sections in Melbourne and Adelaide, is the Gold Coast line where tram traffic light priority is largely absolute is the Gold Coast line. I don’t know how you speed up passengers slow,at getting on and off. Perhaps moving off promptly would help. I don’t think NSW governments have ever had any interest in improving anything about that line. The George St lines will be no better, maybe worse. There is fare evasion also here on the Gold Coast. People touch on their cards, lights flash red meaning no cash or not read, then sit down. People walk off the tram and don’t touch off, so never touched on either. Bus drivers say nothing. They don’t want to be bashed.

[@marcconyard5024]

tressteleg1 as for Opal, I totally ignore it. Whether or not it works I simply couldn't care less as the whole idea was ill starred to begin with. Drivers have no way of checking balances on cards or policing fare evaders beyond calling a passenger back if their card makes the wrong noise. Being as around 60% or higher tap-ons per day are low or no balance you can imagine the work load involved, it simply isn't worth it for a system that is so open to abuse.

[@Carlomunroxx]

Are you a light rail driver?

[@tressteleg1]

Not now, but from 1988 to 1994 I was a Melbourne tram driver and that included driving their 2 light rail routes. I have also driven some trams and trains elsewhere but quite unofficially.

[@skyriderize]

Very modern tram, good video!

[@tressteleg1]

Thanks. What they really need to do is speed up the service and overcome delays caused by trams being slow loading because they are overcrowded. The line is not managed very well.

[@alexjenkins1079]

This popped up in my "recommended" feed. Whoever decided the operating speeds for this line should go on holiday to Prague, and take note of the speeds on a predominately street-based network (take a look at the tram network schematic on www.pid.cz to see how complex it is).

[@tressteleg1]

Yes I have heard of Prague’s speeds and no doubt other European systems are also fast. I suspect that limits are set by desk-bound theorists who have never regularly driven trams and are thinking only of ‘safety’. Fools in my opinion.

[@alexjenkins1079]

tressteleg1 They truly are. If Prague doesn’t change their minds, I don’t know what will, especially if they take a tram between Smichovske Nadraži and Šidliste Barrandov.

[@antoniojose8606]

Rio de janeiro Brasil. São da Ashton, Siemens ou Bombardier? 👀Ⓜ🚊🚋😀

[@oforid2227]

I love urbos 3 trams

[@peregrinemccauley5010]

Good camera work again . Steady sober hand .

[@tressteleg1]

From memory I did not use Stabilise to make the image smoother, but these days I use suction cups for scenes like that, but most lineside shots I take are hand held and usually steady enough (I hope).

[@MisterFiddle]

Public transport should NEVER depart from a scheduled stop earlier than scheduled. Arriving early is fine, arriving late is not. People have to make connections with/from other scheduled services.

[@tressteleg1]

Agreed, never leave early. On the Gold Coast line (I am riding 14 right now) key traffic lights won’t let trams leave early. As a former Melbourne tram driver, there are 100 good reasons for being late, none for departing early. You never run late for fun.

[@Roadrunnerz45]

the light rail in sydney is not timetabled based, its a turn up and go service based on frequency.

[@tressteleg1]

The timetable used to be a secret but is now published but the line is so poorly run that the timetable largely means nothing.

[@michaelgough6533]

tressteleg1 Sad 😢

[@glenstransportvideos]

How do you get cab rides

[@tressteleg1]

It was always illegal on trams and these days also on trains. For this and other tram videos I stood in the passenger saloon and filmed through the glass wall.

[@dfirth_]

Are there diagrams of the line? If not; what is the line that the tram goes over at 14:14 for?

[@dfirth_]

Judging from the camera, it is a trailing crossover but still; are there diagrams?

[@tressteleg1]

After the line leaves the street running, it is entirely on a former freight only railway which had connected the line near Central Staton to Lillyfield/Rozelle Bay, went under the main line between Lewisham and Summer Hill and on to the freight lines beside Dulwich Hill station. There was no other railway at 14:14. If you can find a geographic map of suburban Sydney, you should be able to see what is now the tram line.

[@dfirth_]

ok. thanks. I meant the trailing crossover that the tram goes over at around 14:10 or 14:14.

[@tressteleg1]

OK. I believe that for much of the night the trams only serve the casino and reverse a little beyond it. Maybe at that 14:14 crossover. Also lines must have occasional crossovers so that if there is a disruption some of the line can still run. Or a very late tram can be reversed early to get back on time.

[@dfirth_]

ok thanks. : )

[@thestargateking]

What do you think is better, Sydney light rail or Gold Coast light rail

[@tressteleg1]

+dan b The Sydney line is poorly managed. Gold Coast trams are nearly always able to reach their destination within a minute or two of timetable times. Probably due to inadequate recovery times, the Sydney operation often has erratic spacings between trams, thus making the line inferior in my opinion.

[@MrChowTheTroll]

Due to the turnover in dulwich hill, trams are limited to 8 mins gap. It's okay enough for between the star and dulwich hill, but a however a more frequent is required between the star and central, they could make it 4 mins during peak and have half the tram terimate in the star.

[@oeufme1409]

They are light rail lol. Trams are Melbourne style to me

[@tressteleg1]

With very minor modifications, the vehicles are interchangeable between systems.

[@adelaideonthego]

Nice video. Only annoying thing about those trams is that they spend ages boarding and alighting passengers.

[@tressteleg1]

+ADELAIDE Trains and Trams Unfortunately there is not much you can do to speed up passengers. However those more familiar with the line believe that the trams could be driven a lot faster with safety. Whether this is partly drivers just ambling along or arbitrarily slow speed limits set by desk-bound ‘experts’ or a combination of both is unclear.

[@adelaideonthego]

+tressteleg1 Yes.

[@sydbussie]

its public transport and be it in private hands or public hands you cant help the ignorance of the travelling public.

[@jonathanng5218]

wow the controls are a LOT easier than the hong kong trams lol

[@tressteleg1]

If you are talking about the double deck Hong Kong Island trams, that is how technology changed over the last hundred years. I first saw those in 1975. While you are looking at my videos, look for videos of my local Gold Coast Light Rail/Trams. 😊

[@sylviaelse5086]

If you make public transport fast, too many people use it, and then there are demands for expansion, which costs money.

[@tressteleg1]

It is usually cheaper to enhance the public transport than widen roads.

[@oforid2227]

I love Canberra and Birmingham ones

[@tressteleg1]

The seating lost over the wheels is an inferior design, present with Siemens but not in Citadis and Bombardier to name just 2.

[@antoniojose8606]

Alstom, Siemens ou Bombardier? 👀Ⓜ🚊🚋

[@tressteleg1]

CAF rubbish 😊

[@dfirth_]

Do you have to get permission to film?

[@tressteleg1]

+Colonel Leon No, I simply did it, made sure I did not stand where I would block passengers and just went ahead. The few times that I have approached authorities, especially when travelling overseas, it was going to take days to get permission, days which I could not spare to wait. So I just did what I wanted in a discreet manner, for example running the camera on my lap while sitting on a Station Street. In Australia nobody can stop you taking photographs while on public land such as in the street or in a park. While standing in those places you are free to take photographs over anyone's fence.

[@dfirth_]

I see. Enjoyed the video

[@fordlandau]

They are ridiculously slow. Why ?

[@tressteleg1]

Partly because deskbound theorists who have never driven trams set unrealisticly slow speed limits for ‘safety’ reasons. Slow moving passengers at times can be a problem too.

[@danwoodhouse9290]

where is this?

[@tressteleg1]

It is Sydney, Australia. It is the first new generation tram line in Sydney but another line with 2 branches is being built now.

[@k-led6140]

its too slow.

[@superman9222]

how come?

[@sydbussie]

high pedestrian activity....that first intersection is notorious for people racing against the lights. I'm sure the new George St service will be the same. re the person at 5:15 I'm sure had no idea that the light rail vehicle was there but the driver would have been well aware and cautious and then again at 7:02, T light is given and still idiots walk across and the stunned look from the girl.....d`oh

[@tressteleg1]

Ich verstehe nicht.

[@colinwilkie2279]

they should of mde the line co work with the freightline to Merrickville. plus Campsie

[@carisi2k11]

funny. How could you safely integrate it with a dedicated freight line that has 130 tonne locos running.

[@weeardguy]

Without any knowledge on the matter over there, I think that safety isn't the biggest problem, but capacity is the main problem. Getting a relatively fast tram to interfere with large-mass (and thus, slow) freight trains, is probably the main issue. In the past (pre-WW2 and about a decade after the end of the war), steam-trams shared the same tracks as the normal railroad in my town (In the Netherlands) for some time, until the trams took a right turn out into the countryside. This worked fine as far as history is right, but it's also from an era when train-traffic was far lower (probably only 1 train an hour to Amsterdam and 1 back) and the trams were probably also didn't have such a frequent schedule ;) The tram-service is long gone, but the trains are still there. Even though it worked fine in the past I'm surprised by the struggle it takes these days to turn plans like these into reality, as they are talking about 'shared tracks' for decades in some places already, but it comes down to two main factors everytime: money and safety...

[@tressteleg1]

Maybe I should not comment no longer living in Sydney, but the impression I got was that the line was effectively out of use some time before being converted for trams. Essentially the wharves and factories which had supplied traffic for the line were gone. One of the last was the wheat silos.

[@carisi2k11]

That is correct.

[@raymonddubois7550]

My God, this has to be the slowest tram on earth!

[@oforid2227]

Take a check?????? What's that for

[@tressteleg1]

Location please???

[@oforid2227]

6:30

[@tressteleg1]

Ticket Checks. An inspector was asking to check that everyone had a valid ticket.

[@tou7331]

Theres a place in london called dulwich lmao

[@tressteleg1]

A number of London names are repeated in Sydney. Lewishan is one I can think of just now. The coal mining region of NSW has quite a few names used in Newcastle on Tyne also. After all, we were once a British colony. 🙂

[@15sixmedia]

tressteleg1 Also Liverpool springs to mind 👍🏻

[@tressteleg1]

RBX A lot of names in Australia are copied from the UK.

[@sylviaelse5086]

At least Dulwich in London is a reasonably nice place. Some of the names that were copied in Australia were of places in Britain that were not exactly attractive.

[@Fozgorb]

Would be nice if we had this go to FiveDock.

[@tressteleg1]

The way they are taking excessively long to build the George St system, and excessively gold plating it makes further lines unlikely due to extreme costs. And as the Labor party scrapped Sydney trams in the 1950s and 60s, they are still dead against trams so no joy from them. I think you will sadly miss out at Five Dock.

[@mikepeirson1150]

What are those purple trees please.

[@tressteleg1]

+Mike Peirson It was explained at 1 min 45". Jacaranda tree blossoms.

[@grandpacocky7618]

A few minutes in and they already need a change of drivers!

[@tressteleg1]

+Grandpa Cocky Not quite! The tram in service was required back at the depot for routine maintenance. The tram I rode was bought to Central by a shedman. When the service drive was available, the drivers swapped and the shedman took the second tram back to the depot. This procedure apparently is quite common.

[@aussiegaigin]

I did a return run from Central to Dulwich Hill and back a couple of years ago, and we had FIVE different drivers on the trip.

[@malcolmone1]

not a good route for scenery or people lol

[@tressteleg1]

No. It was built only for goods trains and used by the trams after that. But it nevertheless is very popular as the roads are so choked between there and the city.