Triple-A ABS Challenge System - Team Runs Out of Challenges, Pitcher Ejected for Arguing Strike Zone

We visit Triple-A Buffalo to see the ball/strike system challenge system in action as it upholds all six challenged calls. Rochester's relief pitcher Tyler Danish was ejected arguing balls and strikes the old fashioned way after his team lost all of its challenges. Article: www.closecallsports.com/2023/...
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HP Umpire Matsuda also ejected Red Wings manager Matthew LeCroy for arguing a check swing call by 3B Umpire Andrew Koerkel, who was positioned inside at "C" (infield, in front of second base on the left field side) when he made the call. In a crew of three, as Triple-A often schedules umpires in, the 3B Umpire is positioned inside under certain "runners on" situations, which is why this umpire was at C for the check swing call.

[@kristopherwagner4173]

Umpire did a fantastic job calling balls and strikes. If he calls like this all the time I hope he gets to the majors.

[@thomasgoetz8723]

@Kristopher - Why should the majors want this ump? He would stand out the shitty ump in the majors so they will keep him out of the majors.

[@AndyA1]

I've seen him before. He's very emphatic lol. I love him.

[@randominternet5586]

Man - 6 for 6 on challenges, these are all calls they thought he got wrong and some were close and he had the right result. Nice job!

[@DXT61]

@@randominternet5586 yeah, makes you wonder just how accurate they really are. I thought a couple of those would probably be overturned.

[@mikejunt]

@@DXT61 umpscorecards isnt completely accurate but we see even the worst games MLB umpires have usually involve them missing like 5-7 of the like 300 pitches in a MLB game. They do a pretty good job, and most of their misses are so close that they're just within the margin for error of the human eye and available angles.

[@GregMcNeish]

I loved that on the last challenge for the Bisons, when the pitcher calls for it the catcher very clearly is saying, "really, dude? Don't challenge THAT." (with his body language)

[@JoshSmith-pb8rw]

I like this umpire. He calls a tight zone, accurately and has great energy.

[@roryh2241]

These teams need to learn how to use challenges. If it’s a 3-0 count or an 0-0, I know it’s frustrating if the call is wrong, but you need to save your challenges for if it’s a close game coming down the stretch! Or at least a 3-2 count

[@randominternet5586]

No kidding. Some of these I was like, what / why?

[@micahsilverman5284]

Ive been looking for more clips of the challenge system, but they are hard to find. Thank you Lindsay for the best video yet! If they implement this in the majors, they need to make it even tighter of an automatic ejection to argue balls and strikes after losing all your challenges. I 100% agree that this system is supposed to be used for obvious misses, and if a team loses all their challenges early they deserve to go down in flames

[@dperl5640]

This is absolutely a great example of both great umpiring as well as a great system that should be implemented. Period! It is the perfect mixture of keeping a plate ump calling the game while also allowing the computer system to be involved by the team if desired! I see ZERO downside to this! Finally, as a former catcher is the SEC (and a college ump with 25 yrs experience) I WOULD FREAK if my pitcher asked for a challenge when i did not want one. Any catcher at a high level will tell you the pitcher has a very bad view of where the ball actually crosses the zone and also is usually too emotional on close pitches! If I was that catcher Id have gotten on that pitcher's ass if he did that in a game I was catching! Great video as always. Best baseball rules and umping channel on YT hands down!

[@randominternet5586]

What makes it work is the speed. They are saying 20 seconds, but really, by the time the challenge call is made it's basically 10 seconds or so.

[@james7819]

I was at this game back on Sunday. Takahito Matsuda was the home plate umpire for this game for those wondering. Bisons poured it on early and cruised to the win and I'm sure that the two Rochester ejections (including manager Matt LeCroy) were also in part due to the frustration of being down by a lot as well. I heard Danish and the HP umpire Matsuda bark at each other from where I was sitting. He got tossed after the end of the 7th as seen in the video. Also I didn't realize that all of the challenges were unsuccessful initially. Thanks for the video!

[@mattbraddock]

Buffalo's last challenge (@1:58) - the catcher frames, but you can see him shake his head and look very dejected when his pitcher challenges, because he knows it was a ball.

[@thienvu8120]

It seems to me that as a manager you would want to track how the ump is doing amd then start challenging in the 6th or 7th inning on areas you've identified as the umps weakness.

[@closethockeyfan5284]

Yeah, video coach looking at it throughout the game to then relay info to the dugout

[@mikejunt]

Or save it for high leverage, as the color guy comments at one point, challenging a 3-0 pitch early in the game is a pretty low value challenge, costly if you miss and pretty low upside if you hit. You should save them for close calls preferably in situations that matter, like 2 strike counts (especially full counts), with runners on or late in the game. Better to end the game with a challenge left in case you needed it in a close situation than to run out and not have one in that situation

[@rj7411]

Love that plate umpire strike zone knowledge and professionalism. I see this moving to the majors in the future.

[@andreymalov9602]

What a great job by the PU! His mechanics are very solid, and the zone is fantastic!

[@moose7454]

For context, this stemmed back to two nights prior. In the 1st inning, Taka told Red Wings P Joan Adón that he had to change his glove because of the color of the strings. 1B Matt Adams said something to Taka, and he booted him. According to Red Wings broadcaster Josh Whetzel, Adams said that he told Taka that Adón used the glove in the big leagues, Taka said he didn’t care, then he said to Taka “you guys are too strict” and that was all it took to throw him out. And the 3B ump in this game was a fill-in after Navas got called up. The Red Wings really didn’t like this crew the whole series. And also in general Rochester has had an awful season, LeCroy has been in a foul mood, he’s been ejected three times already I believe.

[@randominternet5586]

How do you argue with a HP umpire that is perfect on every challenge and every challenge used. I mean, cut the guy some slack, that's way above some of the calling I've seen in the majors and this is AAA.

[@mudandbleach]

The other thing worth noting about the challenge system is it’s actually quite engaging for the fan in the park too. Usually the PA announcer lets us know immediately what’s up and they play the challenge graphic on the scoreboard. I’ve been to games with casual fans unfamiliar with the computer and they really dig the challenges.

[@arlietenhove4039]

Taka is a hell of an umpire his strike zone is beautiful. Always great the MLB will be calling in a matter of time.

[@XXelpollodiabloXX]

My man challenged the exact same pitch twice in one inning. That takes guts.

[@almostfm]

I wonder how many of those challenges resulted from the catcher yanking an obvious ball into the strike zone and then holding it-like we couldn't see that the pitch was six inches low.

[@jt-music-media]

Can't wait for the ABS to make it to the majors. BASEBAWL!!!

[@HarrySJohnson]

Ah, the classic “I wasn’t talking to you!”, which always follows an ejectable statement or gesture.

[@vonskyme9133]

I found it hilarious, given he's saying he's talking to the other umpire when the crew chief told him to stop. It's like having a problem with a cashier and then telling the supervisor who comes over to see what's going on that you're talking to their employee. Like all good bosses the answer was 'not here you aren't'.

[@JoshSmith-pb8rw]

That coach is so old he’s lucky to be talking at all.

[@ronpeacock9939]

Sadly, this hitters and pitcher in MLB would probably burn through the challenges by the end of the 2nd inning simply due to their ego's... still.. we'd still have the issues we see with all of the ejections.

[@CommonSense823]

Nah. They don’t lose them if they are overturned. Much higher chance of that in MLB.

[@kennowens7381]

Agreed. Given the number of ejections we've seen where the call was correct, I'm guessing that the players would challenge incorrectly about once per inning per team and they'd be out of challenges by the middle of most games.

[@priceright8963]

This is something I can get behind. Within reason, tough beans if you run out of challenges.

[@lo1bo2]

This is the opposite of Sorana Cirstea's six SUCCESSFUL challenges in a tennis match. There's a three minute video on KZbin.

[@avesselgaming]

I love this challenge system. Helps guarantee the correct call, and also helps show off umpires correctness.

[@deankirkpatrick7658]

I hate it. as seen here the umpire got all of them correct. so what the hell is the point? to pacify a bunch of cry babies.

[@baseballfan9848]

Home Plate - Crew Chief this guy has to be up to the next level. 6/6 on pitch challenges and stands up for partner on the field. He didn't go looking for trouble, they all came looking for him. With no one having any reason to come at him he stood his ground. Poor sportsmanship on Rochester, as usual.

[@J.C...]

Man they wasted all of those. Smh.

[@mattybee1856]

Where are all of the "can't wait for robot umps" people/comments????

[@bnegs521]

ME!! However just let the robo umps call the entire game

[@a_doggo]

Fascinating. Great zone from the PU, those catchers are a pleasure to work with.

[@holmj12]

1:55 the catcher's reaction to his pitcher challenging a clear ball Edit: especially when they had challenged a similar pitch that also proved to be a ball

[@danielcastiglione5328]

If this is how the challenge system is going to be used, I don’t want it! These pitches aren’t the gross misses for key pitches being challenged.

[@tappyoklahoma]

sick editing... that was quite the cliff hanger

[@terrencecitywide]

I love Brian Piccolo. Thanks Lin

[@joshhildebrand8969]

Are we sure that the manager is not Ron Gardenhire. Looks a lot like him. Even the walk looks similar

[@teebob21]

Nope, that's LeCroy. He's only 47 but he looks like he's 67.

[@CloseCallSports]

…He is only 47?

[@MrHmg55]

@@CloseCallSports Yeah, he played for those good Twins teams in the '00s, part of the crop of outstanding prospects I had the pleasure of watching at AA with the New Britain Rock Cats a few years earlier -- Jacque Jones, AJ Pierzynski, Michael Cuddyer, Torii Hunter, Doug Mientkiewicz, etc. The physical resemblance to Gardenhire is remarkable, though.

[@teebob21]

@@MrHmg55 A steady post-playing days retirement diet of ballpark glizzys will do that to a person.

[@alexh8613]

I'd be very curious to how accurate these ball/strike pitch challenges are. Do they adjust to the players height? While inside/outside we can't really tell because the camera is at an angle. I could be wrong, but the high/low zone seems to be, what you see is what it is. That brings me to 2:21 . The strike zone is supposed to be from the knees to halfway between the belt and the shoulders. Which is usually the bottom of the letters. If you pause it at 2:22 the batter is squatting down. According to the broadcaster, that batter is 6'4". A pitch thrown right in the middle of the catchers mask, should easily be below a 6'4" batter's letters. But yet the challenge system says that the pitch was not only just a ball, but wasn't even borderline.

[@fallendeus5641]

couple things wrong with this comment. 1) the strikezone is determined by the batters stance, not height. The batters stance is pretty low which brings his strikezone much lower. 2) Also when the catcher catches the ball it's around the height of his forehead... that's when he CATCHES the ball... which means it's few feet past the plate. The ABS calls based off when the pitch crosses the halfway point of home plate... You can see in the ABS replay the ball is curving down when it crosses the plate so ofc its going to look lower when the catcher receives the ball. 3) You say that it was thrown in the middle of the catchers mask because you miss the catcher bringing it down slightly while he catches it. It hits his glove when it's right around the top of the forehead and him trying to frame the pitch (not sure why they even bother anymore, you aren't going to fool the system) while also receiving it with the top of the glove (which causes it to follow the glove down into the pocket) makes the pitch look much lower than it is. The system is on it's second year of use, first year of use by all AAA teams. The system is more accurate than your own eyes and judgement.

[@cedardreamsLLC]

love the green onions intro

[@Briansgate]

so in this automated system, does the strike zone parameters change for each batter or is the strike zone now static for all batters?

[@Renegade605]

If MLB adopts a ball/strike challenge system but the broadcasters leave the on screen box up, and we have pitches where the box says called incorrect but then upheld or confirmed on challenge: do you think people will see it as proof ABS doesn't work in real time or take it as reason to call the challenge system rigged?

[@rickhaavisto9023]

Or, a hopeful third option, the broadcasters mention that the on screen box isn’t a perfect representation of the strike zone

[@Renegade605]

@@rickhaavisto9023 that'd be great but I doubt it. They don't say that now so...

[@ryantalcott3733]

Lol not the c slot check swing. Nice.

[@owenzeiter4639]

What did the broadcast mean by fill in umpire? Like a call up from AA or?

[@zacmontgomery8684]

The umpire in the infield who called the strike appears to be a college umpire filling in for someone on the Triple A crew, probably because of injury or illness. They do sometimes use Double A umpires to fill in at Triple A if they are close enough with enough notice. Good on the home plate umpire for taking the heat off the fill-in and handling the manager.

[@tretre1692]

Can we see more of how/why umpires utilize a computer to call balls and strikes like the episode a few days ago please! Very weird concept!

[@mae0742]

This is ridiculous! Just go full computer call and get on with it.

[@doohuh]

Gotta save those challenges for big moments not a 3-0 count with nobody on LUL

[@1NobleGiant]

Isn't this what the robo ump bros wanted? Rejoice

[@richatwood]

Can you also do double A thanks

[@terrencecitywide]

Questioning authority is granted a larger role in Baseball?

[@randolphhudson8645]

😂😂😂 strike and ball challenge 😂😂😂 the MLB needs this

[@blueskies25]

Shows the limitations of the challenge system. Should just bypass the umps and have the computer call all pitches. Then you won't have to worry about running out of challenges.

[@pavanatanaya]

Ladies and Gentlemen The Buffalo Bystanders

[@bnegs521]

If you challenge and get it right do you get the challenge back?

[@moose7454]

Yes

[@CommonSense823]

Wish they’d move underperforming umpires down from MLB to make room for high performing umpires in AAA. The union would never stand for it though, so guys like this have to wait for someone to retire.

[@leonmatthewsiv1699]

for the love of God, seriously... can we get a graphic with an accurate strike zone? It is 3D, not a 2D plane.

[@teebob21]

It's not likely to happen anytime soon. Both PitchF/X and Trackman are not capable of tracking the location of a pitch through 20 meters of 3D space. Instead, these systems determine velocity, instantaneous position, and spin rate at a given point to simulate the rest of flight of the ball, similar to how Trackman golf simulators are able to simulate a golf ball's flight from its motion just a few milliseconds after impact with the club face.

[@MadSpectre47]

How do you run through these challenges in the early innings? I know you never can know when you'll use them or lose them and when a big moment can possibly happen, but running out of challenges by the 4th inning seems... less than ideal. Not in this game since it was a massive blowout, but man. Also why not just let the computer call all the pitches? If the goal is to get things right, lets... get all the things right.

[@terrencecitywide]

If coach charges out of the dugout after getting tossed, he should be charged with trespassing. #nojoke

[@michaelchung1526]

This is good stuff. Can't get to the majors fast enough. The fully automated system can't come fast enough

[@vitesse_arnhem]

Wrong! Wrong! This is destroying baseball as we know it. Why have a limited challenge system when you can just bring QuesTec back? This is a communist plot to completely ruin the sport. Universal DH and the shift ban are socialist and so is this. Anyone who supports this system is a fake fan!

[@chrisnease88]

If I were a manager I would only allow the catcher to challenge, they have the best view and pitchers have massive egos

[@mikestermike]

I can see maybe the batter motioning to the dugout that they would like a review, but ultimately the request comes from the bench. Not waiting on feedback from their camera crews like fielded plays, but just a quick thumbs up or down. This would hopefully keep the challenges from being used ineffectively.

[@PaulHarvey3]

The dugout? I thought only batters, catchers, and pitchers could challenge balls and strikes with this system?

[@mikestermike]

@@PaulHarvey3 which is why I suggested an okay from the dugout instead

[@marinebean420]

Slow rules day?

[@Ghostrider6A]

Here's a question I have. Suppose R1 is stealing second and a pitch is called a ball. F1 decides to challenge that ball call. Is play dead immediately or would the steal attempt be adjudicated before the pitch replay? I don't recall anything being released on that. Thank you!

[@adamdelivers0214]

The pitch would be challenged once playing action has ended. So, in this case, the steal attempt would be adjudicated and then the pitch challenge.

[@omny6686]

If implimenting this saves 4 minutes in watching an umpire argue with a manager, it would shave 8 minutes off of the league average game time

[@2332Stephen]

I love baseball but I hate whats happened to it. I don't even recognize it anymore. Petty challenges, all the whining all the time.

[@areguapiri]

Agreed. This is not baseball. This is some space-aged, techno sport.

[@bnegs521]

Gotta keep in mind its 11 to 1. The manager wantex out of there.

[@ryanbenjamin105]

MLB players are going to use their challenges more effectively, at (I would guess) a success rate of about 50%. Which means if this system were to be implemented, we'd see at least 6 wasted challenges and possibly several more successful challenges. So 10-15 challenges per game, at 15-20 s each. Potentially 6 minutes of challenge stoppage every game. Doesn't seem like a lot but I think it's counterproductive to the effort being made by the pitch clock to shorten the game. Challenges totally disrupt the flow, in my opinion. There's an easier solution - just use ABS for all pitches.

[@deankirkpatrick7658]

Bison's 3rd challenge @ the 2:00 minute mark. by the pitcher - look at the catchers reaction, he knew it was low. Only catchers and managers should be able to challenge. But I totally dislike this anyway.

[@randominternet5586]

Yeah, he was like oh man. Why wouldn't a pitcher defer to a catcher signal on a challenge, catcher is a LOT closer to the plate!?

[@terrencecitywide]

Umpire was 6-0. I bet his grilled cheese dinner tasted like filet mignon.

[@linfordglick7671]

Baseball will fall behind hockey as the least watched sport if they start allowing challenges like that. That would be unbearable to watch a game with that many challenges per team

[@vitesse_arnhem]

This is destroying baseball as we know it. Why have a limited challenge system when you can just bring QuesTec back? This is a communist plot to completely ruin the sport. Universal DH and the shift ban are socialist and so is this. Anyone who supports this system is a fake fan!

[@doohuh]

6 out of 300 pitches?

[@areguapiri]

That challenge system is awful to watch as a true baseball fan.

[@Requinix17]

Just let the ABS do it all. The challenge system just creates way too many anticlimactic moments. It's a groan every time

[@bnegs521]

Agreed

[@thickerconstrictor9037]

If that's the case I would rather just have humans do it. With pitch clocks and automatic zones and replay the game is getting way too automated and I would rather my team lose the world series on a poor call then have to watch baseball with all this shit. Fuck people complained about steroids but at least steroids gave us the best baseball team ever seen and not this technological bullshit

[@davegoodridge8352]

MLB is doing a Bud Light. In their attempt to speed up the game, they're losing the older fans.

[@notvalidcharacters]

5:49 did he just say "a running conversation with the right wing dugout"?

[@james7819]

He said "Red Wing dugout". Rochester's team name.

[@bigpoppa1234]

Don't get why you'd bother with a challenge system when you can just use the automated system from the start. I suppose while the MLB doesn't use an ABS though you would have to have the umpires lower keep calling otherwise you could end up with umpires who have got used to not calling balls/strikes moving up to the MLB. As for the teams, in a challenge system, the only way you should be wasting challenges is for events with significant impact which would be getting an out or walking in a runner, or late in the game where getting someone on base really matters.

[@stephenkasper6081]

The answer is time, it takes about 2-4 seconds for the system to record the pitch and relay the call to the umpire who then makes the call. That adds up over 300 pitches. And that's if the system is calibrated perfectly every time.

[@CommonSense823]

@@stephenkasper6081 2-4 seconds is worth it. There should be no reason to have to challenge anything. Just get it right the first time, every time. At least keep it consistent pitch to pitch.

[@karlrovey]

​@@CommonSense823 Except the automated system has some flaws and still gets some calls wrong.

[@bigpoppa1234]

@@stephenkasper6081 in soccer the goal line technology system almost instantly buzzes the referee to tell them the ball went all the way over the line, and that's way more complex (due to players being in the way of the cameras, goalkeepers reaching or trying to knock the ball away), so there's technology around that could do it within a second.

[@CommonSense823]

@@karlrovey So do the human umpires. The tech will only improve.

[@johnvincent7170]

What is the "money's worth" coin worth at the minor league scale?

[@ectweak]

about $3.50

[@priceright8963]

@@ectweak Curious. How's it being measured?

[@areguapiri]

Umpiring behind home plate is super stressful with this challenge system mess.This is not baseball. This is some space-aged, techno sport.

[@DG-BB]

mechanically correct yes...accuracy from the C position ...meh. if they don't want to pay 1 more umpire...use the strike zone box + geometric angles, establish a parameter for check swings.... ai will be more accurate and cheaper...

[@vincentwendt720]

The only problem with that is the rules committee needs to create a more definite rule than "attempts to strike at the pitch." The technology needs a reference point and the Official Baseball Rules (OBR) doesn't define what an attempt is. I've been wanting to see a more definite rule anyway. Maybe someday the OBR will create a more definite rule.