Triple-T #91 - Intermediate Build Series - Grinding and heat treating

#tyrellknifeworks
In today's Triple-T (tools, tips and talk) #91, we'll be continuing the Intermediate build series and covering grinding and heat treating
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[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Let me know if there are questions on these steps. Much of this is covered in the Grinding Basics and Heat Treating videos that are part of the Beginner Series playlist but if there's other questions, please add a comment.

[@JPsBladeworks]

This knife is coming out nice. Cant wait for the finished product.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I could be done this one already but it’s more about the journey this time. 👍. The guard fit up is a key on this one, then the handle.

[@JPsBladeworks]

@@TyrellKnifeworks i need to learn how to fit up gaurds. Thats why i stick to gaurdless knives and kitchen knives.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Well stay tuned. 👍

[@stephenborders4654]

Thanks for the video. Your explanation of the grinding process is very helpful. The quenching as well.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks, Stephen! The big part of this series is coming up with the guard fit up! 👍

[@stephenborders4654]

@@TyrellKnifeworks Looking forward to it as always.

[@travisbartlett1977]

Another great video bud. Can't wait to see the final knife

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for watching, Travis! In the next one we get into the interesting stuff with guard fitting!

[@allanandersson2001]

I have had so much trouble to get my freehand sanding going. Instead I've been using jigs. They get a real nice result. But! I wanted everything to be "easy". Thanks to your tip how to use the rest and thumb I can now proudly say that I've placed the jig on the shelf! THANKS!!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

That’s great! Jigs have their place but can be limiting. Best to be able to use either. Thanks for watching, Allan!

[@wiggsan]

Fantastic!!! Thanks so much!! I've been making knives for a year now and I've made a total of 17 knives and sold all of them (a couple for $500), but I'd like to get better. This video will point me in the right direction! Thanks!!!!!!!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’m so glad it helped you, Alex! Thanks for watching

[@stevanusdickykresnahadi7076]

Love your work, thanks for sharing denis. I'm from Indonesia

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for following the series!

[@Yousoundvaxxed]

It’s just a beauty!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for watching, Armen!

[@kevinsprouse6968]

Looking great.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks Kevin! I’m looking forward to trying out the burl you gave me! ❤️

[@debrahays7005]

That is going to be a great knife !! That is a beautiful piece of maple with a beautiful pattern on both sides. You make the grinding look easy and turns out great. Can't wait to see this one finished !!! Again I really like it in your videos when you show when you make a mistake AND how to fix them. Great video and what a great way to start the day. Goes great with my coffee !!!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks so much for following along! If there’s an issue you’re having and you think I should cover, please let me know!

[@redwolfknives3174]

This series is treasure! Learning tons!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for watching, Ben!

[@stephenjohnson6841]

Looking great! Lots of great info. Thanks for sharing some of your knowledge/expertise!

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

We get into the hard parts of fitting the guard in the next episode. 👍

[@bobgore1962]

That is going to be one beautiful knife, Denis! I'm really loving this series! Thanks for sharing my brother! 😎👍🏻🔨🔥🗡️

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for following along, Bob! This is turning out to be a pretty cool knife. Maybe I’ll do a raffle for it afterwards.

[@franotoole2702]

The rounding of the steel edges is not because of it being hot rolled, pretty much most of the steel you get is hot rolled, but its because its cut with a guilotine which sheer cuts the metal forcing the roundovers. Even if you buy ground flat stock it can come cut like that, most places will allow for that and make the bar wider, but not all. Ive been caught out once or twice by it. Now i buy it one size larger to be safe.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Now I buy my steel from Maritime Knife Supply so it always flat and square. Thanks for watching.

[@peteouellette975]

Nice

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Thanks for watching, Pete!

[@zproducts6080]

As for problems grinding with your off-hand... I find that starting with my off hand tends to have better outcomes. I think this is because when I start I am removing material much slower, so it gives me the time to get into the grinding groove with my off-hand.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’ve tried that and just switching between the always gives me a bit of trouble no matter which I start with. Then after a few minutes I get used to it. Everyone is different though.

[@DBCraftWorld]

Very nice episode Denis! I'm not sure if hammering already HT blade is good idea, but if it work I'll keep it in mind and who knows, maybe use it if I have occasion :)

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

You do it on a tempered blade, not right out of HT. It does have sone merit, but I’ve never tried it personally. Thanks, David.

[@DBCraftWorld]

@@TyrellKnifeworks ​ I've noticed that, but still, cold forging would not make me feel comfortable lol

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Yeah, I’m with you. My preference is a shim temper.

[@nicholaskillmeier4895]

I don't have a horizontal, but I can't imagine doing a false edge on a vertical wheel. That sounds really hard.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Right, so put your rest on vertically and use it that way. 👍. Thanks for watching.

[@blaneyblades4810]

16:00. Okay now I have never seen that before. That's very interesting. I've used jigs flatstock angle stock and many other methods to get warps out, but I have never seen a ball peen hammer with a carbide ball. I'm pretty sure I have some carbide balls laying around somewhere and I know I have an extra ball peen hammer or two. I might make one of these based on how it works out for you

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’ve heard others using them with success but I’ve never tried it. I’ll have to give it a shot sometime, even if it’s a forced test piece.

[@blaneyblades4810]

@@TyrellKnifeworks I think I would probably go with the test piece first. I would hate to hit a knife I spent a lot of time on and cause a stress fracture

[@pumkinferno1142]

have you ever considered trying out for forged in fire?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I’ve applied several times for the show. Just waiting for them to call me. 😉

[@anthonyluc389]

Great video Dennis. Thanks for sharing. I did have one question as I'm making my first hidden tangs now. This is the only hidden tang video where I've seen you file the step in the tang all the way around. Do you no longer do this for a reason? I was thinking maybe it weakens the tang and you've changed your mind. I like the idea of it for making a tighter fitting guard but saw most of your other vids avoided the step. Thanks mate

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I don’t do this because I’ve changed my process. Since doing my JS I got sone tips from my MS (Michael Vagnino) to hammer on the guard to leave an imprint then I use a high speed rotary tool to grind that away so the knife sits “in” the guard. Kyle Royer does this technique too. The high speed rotary tools are expensive ($550 for mine) but worth it. Thanks for watching, Anthony.

[@anthonyluc389]

@@TyrellKnifeworks thanks so much mate. Ah yes I remember seeing you do that now. Without having the rotary tool, would you have continued doing this technique?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

@@anthonyluc389 no, even without the rotary tool you can hammer the guard on and get a better fit.

[@anthonyluc389]

@@TyrellKnifeworks thanks mate. I'll give it a go. Cheers

[@dani_wotb7240]

🦍

[@wiggsan]

What is the reason for heat treating after the initial grind? Couldn't you just do the heat treat and then grind?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Grinding hardened steel is much harder on your abrasives. It’s easier to do most of your grinding pre-heat-treat. Thanks for watching, Alex.

[@wiggsan]

@@TyrellKnifeworks Got it. Makes sense. Thanks!!!

[@fifis101]

One thing that just popped in my mind; you have a mill, have you ever thought about milling your bevel in? at least the pre-heat one. I know that would probably come across as cheating but....

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

People ask about this on occasion. That is a really tough thing to mill. Just figuring out the angle, how to hold down the work, and make it repeatable on the other side is super complicated and not worth it unless you’re doing production knives, which I’m not. Thanks for watching.

[@mikchrungBLADES]

Hey Tyrell, How do I heat treat stainless steel.?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

I would consider that on the advanced series. You need a heat treating oven and most SS you quench between aluminum plates. I have done videos on stainless steel knives before, check the library. 👍

[@PatheticPeasant]

Can you elaborate on the tempering? You said 400 degrees but didn't say how long and if you did it more then once. For instance, one maker I watched said he'll do 400 degrees for 2- 1 hour runs, letting it cool down between runs.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Sorry, I forgot to add the text on that page. Yes the tempering was 400F for two hours, twice. I cool with water between. No need to let it cool slowly. I’ll talk about that more at the beginning of the next episode since I forgot. 👍

[@PatheticPeasant]

@@TyrellKnifeworks thanks for the reply and for sharing your knowledge!

[@PatheticPeasant]

You mentioned cooling with water between. If I let it cool down on its own to room temperature between cycles and when I pull it out the last time does that effect its hardness and the grain? I've never heard of cooling it with water between temper cycles and am now curious as to if my knives are not hardened properly.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

@@PatheticPeasant cooling slowly or with water makes no difference. Water is faster and let’s you get it right back in the oven is all.

[@PatheticPeasant]

@@TyrellKnifeworks that's a relief. Thanks again for all the information.

[@Yo-mv6py]

how long do you leave the blade in the temper oven at 400?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Typical temper cycles are two, 2-hour cycles, cooling with water in between. The actual temperature you temper at depends on the hardness achieved after the quench and what the final desired hardness is. Watch my video on Heat Treating, it explains this and has charts. Thanks for watching.

[@isayahyahglory4917]

I would like to know if I send you a piece of steel if you would forge me a blade and so what would cost and how long might it take if so I will include a picture of the knife

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Sorry, I’m not taking any custom orders right now. Thanks for watching.

[@isayahyahglory4917]

@@TyrellKnifeworks love the channel and I will keep watching and hope you will be taking orders soon thank you very for your time

[@willardjames2685]

Why would you not just do all the beveling after heat treat? You had so much material left on the blade before heat treat.

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

While that’s possible, it takes longer to grind and you go through more belts that way. Also with 10xx steel, it’s a shallow hardening steel so it’s better to be closer to final thickness when quenching as the thickness has an effect.

[@Glitchtheplanet]

I highly recommend some background music

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

You are the minority I’m afraid. I’ve done several polls of viewers in the past and the vast majority prefer machine noise with voice over. Thanks for watching.

[@Glitchtheplanet]

@@TyrellKnifeworks it’s mostly because they don’t actually work around machinery or loud equipment. I can also say that I have worked in marketing so the music in the background when you speak or make cuts with absolute dead silence not the way to do it but you’re a grown man so do whatever you want but in order to grow change has to happen

[@stephenborders4654]

@@Glitchtheplanet As someone who will almost never watch a video with background music, I prefer to hear the machine noises muted to a low volume with voice over. Being around machines my whole life, they are what I am used to. Music makes it hard to hear the voice clearly.

[@Glitchtheplanet]

@@stephenborders4654 considering that and through the views as well as the comments I can see that my advice will go unheeded and you aren’t interested in growth which is not meant to be aggressive or offensive it just means that your job is not KZbin so you just try to be educational

[@blaneyblades4810]

I keep forgetting that you're doing this without all the fancy tools and find myself asking why the hell is he doing it like that...?

[@TyrellKnifeworks]

Haha, yeah no fancy tools on this one. This will be particularly true when we fit the guard… no using the mill. 😜

[@blaneyblades4810]

@@TyrellKnifeworks oh what fun!...🤥 I remember those days