Triple Triad #4 Getting Used to Same and Plus

[@doomqc89gaming20]

TY, great explantaion of those 2 rules and how to used them at your advantage.

[@jakeraskerino]

Glad it helped! Really appreciate the comment.

[@Tybuster]

My brain was really hurting but I finally understand now! Thanks a lot!

[@jakeraskerino]

Hurray!

[@icyboy771z]

​​@@jakeraskerino Hey can you add some new rules to your game? Plus Wall - Similar to Plus but with the Wall side as Ace. Fallen Ace - 1 can flip over Ace Wrap Around - There is no corners as all sides are "Wrapped Around" For e.g putting a card at the top right would expose the top number to lower number on bottom left. And the top right right number to the top left left number. Putting a card at bottom middle would expose it's bottom number to the top middle top number so on and so forth. Plus and same can still be played but there's no wall in this version.

[@jakeraskerino]

@@icyboy771z I don't think I have a specific explainer on plus wall but there are some concepts I sometimes mention, so I'll try and give a quick version: We're looking for gaps, and because walls are consistently an A we can get used to finding those gaps quickly. If we want to take a 7 the gap between 7 and 10 is 3. So we will only be able able to PW with a similar gap of 3. For instance 5 and 2 could work (7+5 = 10+2), or 6 and 3, or 7 and 4, etc... Any time we have a gap of 3 on our card that gives us a potential way to fight 7s with PW on. If we need to fight 8s, well 10 - 8 = 2 so we need 2 gaps. To take As that's gonna need a zero gap so we'll need double numbers. I find this the quickest way to identify which of my cards can fight what with PW. The key here is that because walls are constant we know that 3 gaps will always fight 7s well, 2 gaps will always fight 8s, 1 gaps will always fight 9s. It's fun to build hands with this in mind; if I want to fight 8s I need lots of cards with two gaps in them like 8s with 6s or 7s with 5s or 6s with 4s. Wraparound would change that entirely! There's two versions of this I've heard. Your version sounds like chaotic fun but I worry it would give first turn far too large an advantage. In most rulesets first turn already has a slight to large advantage, and having access to more cards to capture or combo on the final turn might be too extreme. An alternate version I've heard, perhaps better balanced, is not that you can flip the wraparound cards, but that they do set the opposite wall to be whatever they have facing their end of the wrap around wall. That'd make walls vary far more and might be an interesting dynamic, I haven't tried it out though.

[@icyboy771z]

​​@@jakeraskerino Yes, most games the first player has some kind of advantage and while TT can be quite complex with all the rules. It isn't that complex compared to say chess since you only have 5 cards and limited spaces to place it so that advantage is more dominant. I think first turn advantage problem can be solved by playing even no. of rounds to find the best player. In fact competitive TT games (for closed at least) should be played over something like maybe 8 or 10 rounds to determine the best player. Another rule I thought about is minus/minus wall. It's like plus but instead of adding you subtract the difference and if it's the same cards are flipped. Like for e.g opp has 9 and 5. You can flip with a 6 on the 9 side and 2 on the 5 side since 9-6=3 and 5-2=3

[@jakeraskerino]

@@icyboy771z Some triple triad sites (that may still function I don't know, I was never on them) have had minus and minus wall. I've never played with them, Delial has.

[@Snowcloak_]

At 20:21 would 6847 in 4 be the right play? It gets the plus like Ifrit would without being susceptible to a plus in 1 from 3453, making it 4-6 and they would have to commit the 9484 in 4 to make it 5-5, which allows us to then capture Irvine with either 8448 or Ifrit, making it 6-4, and then whatever they do from there, we would be able to recapture with strong left-facing numbers?

[@jakeraskerino]

First instinct without calculating: in these setups (which I call a J cause it vaguely looks J shaped) we usually don't want to play combos in 4 because if they can take in 1 when 1 and 4 are the only cards that are hard to interact with, and our opponent has locked in both! On the other hand they can't take 7 and we can lock in 2 next turn so let's take a deeper look: We play 6847 in 4 going up 6-4, I agree they need to reply 9484 in 1 making it 5-5. We now go in 3 locking in 2 and going up 6-4. They lead to the same result but I'd lean towards 8448 in 3 here just so the opponents 3453 doesn't have something to do; it could take Ifrit. After 8448 in 3 they can play 8528 in 6 double capturing and making it 6-4 them. After that we can safely single capture for a tie but can't win. So I think this leads to a tie but it's a good idea. Most ideas lead to ties with perfect play, and it's our job to find the moves that apply the most pressure. ...and it's clearly better than what I did! After my awful move in 9 a bit later if they'd played 8528 in 8 I'd have lost! Silly me.

[@Snowcloak_]

Amazing! Thank you so much@@jakeraskerino this is so in depth. I think I saw formation tutorials coming up in the future, they look really useful! I had another question, how do you compute possible pluses and sames so quickly? I've been pausing the videos at each game/challenge to try it for myself and when I resume it you have the answer in like nanoseconds lol, that's seriously impressive. Is there any deliberate practice that can improve this? Thanks again for putting out these videos, they're so helpful for me as someone fascinated by the game. Needs way more views!

[@jakeraskerino]

@@Snowcloak_ Thank you so much! Really nice to hear this is useful. It's a wonderful game. Thinking in terms of gaps helps me, I see a 7 and 5 I know those are 2 apart so I look for things 2 apart in my hand. But mostly it's experience? I've played thousands of games on ttadvance.net and honed the skill, I don't think there's a shortcut? Pausing the video and figuring it out is very good practice, it will speed up as time goes on! ttadvance is where the highest level triple triad is being played and I love it but it can be hard to recommend because virtually all the players left have been playing for 15+ years and it can be incredibly challenging to get into. It is a good and welcoming community though, with a discord.

[@peterpupe8352]

Thx for the explanation. I thought rules overwrite others and are in effect exclusively. I was so confused when i tried to set up sames, but simply got taken by higher values. I thought maybe its the wall, but i now understand, that "same wall" is another different rule... confusing explanation in game.

[@jakeraskerino]

Very confusing! Yeah, it's not at all obvious that each rule is an additional method of capture rather than a replacement of how to capture. And rule based captures set off comboing which overpowering doesn't, all unclear!

[@jasonbolak]

6:30 👌👌 def helps

[@장해주-c3b]

This is too much for my puny brain to comprehend. I'm so sorry. I'm a loser. 😭

[@jakeraskerino]

I'm sure you aren't! It's a huge pain to get used to.

[@Tacosandwiches1997]

Thank god and thank the ultima that you fucking posted a legible explanation of this hell rule. I will forever be in your debt and my cards thank you.

[@jakeraskerino]

Glad to help! Real struggle to get used to and FF8 really doesn't want to help you.

[@andrewdoyle1772]

It was this video when I asked myself "...am I retarded?".

[@biggains1]

My game must be bugged. I knew I was understanding it correctly. Your video and countless online forums I've seen were correct. Problem is for whatever reason when I play a card in the spot(s) that should activate the same rule or plus rule, it just simply doesnt happen. They are a part of my rules for almost every place I've played now, but everytime I get the chance to do it and do so, it doesnt activate either of these rules on the board. But rest assured every other card game my opponent manages a double or triple card flip(I know that's partly my fault there but still, shows the bs cause they can but I cant for whatever reason).

[@jakeraskerino]

Oof, I'm really sorry about that. Must feel absurdly unfair when they can do it but you can't.

[@biggains1]

@@jakeraskerino I appreciate the sympathy lol better than the alternative. It basically means imma have to play people more times to try and win, I'll just try to pay attention so I never set them up for same and plus. Heck some of the players ya come across can fairly easily be lured into corner traps and what not so I'm sure I'll bs my way to all the named cards haha

[@phalanxiatheroan863]

Still not getting it. I have discalculia. Trying to win my cards back from the kid in Dollet but same/plus is stuck in the region. This is getting more confusing the more I watch.

[@phalanxiatheroan863]

Not your fault, I'm sure it's super helpful for folks that can math. My brain just can't do math good.

[@jakeraskerino]

@@phalanxiatheroan863 Oh no! I'm sorry this is happening to you, there are definitely some guides out there for getting rules changed in regions that might help? But I'm sorry I'm just adding to your confusion, hope you find a way. I did a lot of savescumming once upon a time.

[@ryanc5572]

Super helpful. Thanks mate

[@tubii-fushii1173]

first time learning how to play plus on triad from watching your video and elemental was added.... I see now why you said it's an abomination. The same rules don't apply to the AI when they play an elemental card that don't sync with the elemental slot (smh) the system does not subtract 1 and it still successfully makes plus play, that is so bogus man 😒

[@jakeraskerino]

It's absurd! Triple triad is a very cleverly put together game, but they did not think elemental through at all. Completely bogus.

[@toxiclunch]

I’ll play in ff14 so long as the rules aren’t same or plus. Probably the only rules I lose in consistently, as it simply looks like cheating.

[@jakeraskerino]

I get that! I felt the same way for the longest time. The site I play on combo is optional rather than a permanent rule, which made it easier to get used to plus/same without it being so gamebreaking.

[@tattoodude8946]

Plus really gets me. I can play with same but plus just seems like, "OK - we're just taking all your cards because." I have read and watched explanations and I still stare at the screen when the computer suddenly flips the entire board in a chain reaction. I end up adding and subtracting everything and sometimes it just doesn't make sense. I had a 7,1 Grat take one of my A cards with a "plus" that set off a chain leaving me down 7-3. How?

[@H3li0s]

fuck i knew i missed out on some math 32 years ago

[@jprec5174]

Now explain Tetra Master.

[@jakeraskerino]

Oof, no can do, that game is absurd.

[@Clavitz1]

@@jakeraskerino good choice hahaha. it's very sad how they made the card game worse. at least in XIV it's improved.

[@yusufsaahir3317]

This plus shyt is confusing af bro explaining is good but u gotta get a pen highlighter or something im still lost

[@yusufsaahir3317]

This got me a lil better thanks

[@jakeraskerino]

I'm glad it helped a little! You're right, I should've had a arrows or something to better explain stuff.

[@russellhagan1447]

save game knwoing your going for a rare card....lose reset try again 80 million tries later gets the card

[@possessedprincess4448]

I just don't play triple triad bc same and plus are too annoying. I understand them fine. If they didn't exist tho it'd be perfect

[@jakeraskerino]

In FF8 I agree with you; same and plus are a pain even when you understand them, partially because combo is always turned on so it means you have to spend a lot of time calculating and can't just play quick, fun games. I think with competitive play between people they're very important though!

[@icyboy771z]

@@jakeraskerino Its mostly random though... its just more complicated version of arithmetic tic tac toe but overall still simplistic...

[@icyboy771z]

@@jakeraskerino I wonder if the board was bigger would there be more strategic play, say a 4x4 or 5x5.

[@KeglegxLepper]

What