Tristan Tate & Joey Carbstrong | Live Veganism Discussion

Support my work here: www.joeycarbstrong.com/supportourwork
For Free help going vegan follow this link: bit.ly/JoeyVegan22
Visit my website: www.joeycarbstrong.com
Email enquiries: [e-mail]
See where your 'food' comes from-
Aus: www.watchdominion.com
Uk: www.landofhopeandglory.org
Dairy: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mmbakpWbe6xspq8
FOLLOW ME ON :
Instagram: joey_carbstrong
Facebook: web. joeycarbstrong
Twitter: JoeyCarbstrong
Tik tok: www.tiktok.com/@joey_carbstrong

[@JoeyCarbstrong]

Saying “I don’t care” in NO way justifies this: kzbin.info/aero/PL9H0QfopRscefPx0WVoULIENWraP4MHXU

[@burningclock]

I don't think he cares about anyone.

[@veganforlife5733]

"You'll never convince me of that" (or anything for that matter) "Humans were made in the image of God" (he's so spiritual /s) "Those animals were bred to serve a specific purpose" (how many times did that one get re-churned?) He passes off arrogance as intellect with memorized dictums.

[@TK-zc5wu]

Course u do he's a fat head with a big cigar no one with any intelligence listens to him!

[@emilryszardczarnocki4965]

Dissaponted with JC, could say about life cycle of cow, also a mother. Tate do not seem to connect/understand their physical & mental suffering.

[@talkfan]

I vote for Tristan. He makes sense

[@xXCybranXx]

To be honest, I think Tristan is acting. He picked the "i dont care" argument because that is the easiest to defend. He admits that vegans are right and respects them. But he can't say "I'm vegan now" or "I feel sorry for animals" because that doesn't fit his created alpha role.

[@jimmyobrien8738]

If that's how he feels then it's best he's honest, only he can know

[@infini_ryu9461]

It's the easiest to defend because it's true and you have nothing to come back on it. And to buffer Tristan's point about the leather, we use 40% of the cow for non-food purposes. We use the entire animal.

[@professorjbennett]

@@infini_ryu9461 if it comes out of TT's mouth, it's more akin to a good story than any knowledge of reality that is backed up with science or research.

[@infini_ryu9461]

@@professorjbennett What does science and research have to do with any of these arguments? Joey says "Look at this video of poor piggies." Tristan replies "I don't care." What else was there?

[@pedroteosousa]

@@infini_ryu9461Being true entails nothing, I can say that I truly don't care about human suffering but that does not mean that my "argument" in untouchable. That's not how a debate works. Also, if you don't care, why is using the whole animal relevant in any way?

[@prateekl968]

If you love Pigs, cattle, hens they love you 2x back. I have seen animals cry, love their babies or family , I'll never ever hurt such beings if I have other choices ~ex vegan troll

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

You used to be a vegan troll or an ex vegan?

[@thetruthhurts599]

They clearly stated they're an ex vegan troll, so they are no longer trolling vegans. They now have compassion for animals and are in the light.

[@Altrop]

If we stop eating/using cattle, they will all go extinct. It will probably be a slow and painful death, because there is no profit to be made while it would cost tons of money to care for all those billions of animals until they die a natural death. I propose we split the bill between all the vegans who actively try to convince others. I have to warn you, the bill is probably so high you'll have not a single penny left and won't be able to buy food for yourself. You may not survive. But the alternative would be a mass killing of many billions of animals in short order so we don't have to take care of them, so I'm sure you won't mind sacrificing your entire net worth as well as your income for the next decade to pay for your utopian world. Right?

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

​@@thetruthhurts599 it is not clearly stated. In this case, quotation marks would help clear up confusion. If it were clearly stated I wouldn't have asked for clarification. Let them answer.

[@thetruthhurts599]

@@ASMRyouVEGANyet common sense also helps clear up confusion. From the entirety of his comment, he's clearly siding and has an understanding with vegans.

[@3_y7Q_X2rP_s9K8]

It's interesting how some people think being "at the top of the food chain" means cruelty is justified, while others take it as an opportunity to protect

[@Adelehalsall]

Yep indeed. I feel like this is the fastest way to identify sociopaths.

[@sugar3751]

Do you think bear is imoral for killing other animals for food?

[@Lieutenant-Dan]

@@sugar3751 bears don't have moral agency. This argument is ridiculous. Oh look animals do it so it's ok?! They also rape and kill eachothers babies, is ok to do that too? You wanna look to wild animals for your moral compass? Lollllll

[@sixavi7406]

@@sugar3751a bear has no moral agency, he hunts to survive. We don’t have to do that

[@sugar3751]

@@sixavi7406 Bear does not have to eat meat to survive.

[@elizabethfirmin5027]

True masculinity is advocating for and protecting those more vulnerable than you. Heroes and leaders stand up and go against the grain even when the right thing to do is unpopular.

[@fitafanatomy3359]

You honestly think protecting a chicken makes you masculine??? Lmaoooo

[@ServusCrux]

​@@fitafanatomy3359lmfao

[@Loveanimalsdonteatthem]

@@fitafanatomy3359 you think abusing a chicken makes you masculine? Why is defending an owl noble but it’s a joke if you defend a different kind of bird? Illogical and not morally consistent.

[@fitafanatomy3359]

@@Loveanimalsdonteatthem who said abusing a chicken makes you masculine?? Masculinity has nothing to do with chickens

[@Idiocracynotjustamovie]

Having a soft heart in a cruel world is courage, not weakness. Male or female, it doesn't matter.

[@jameswood3818]

Tate decided before the interview to claim that he’s indifferent to killing animals. He’s either disingenuous or a psychopath. There’s no other explanation.

[@spvr4233]

Killing and eating meat is the way of life. Deal with it.

[@jean6453]

He is so careful and calculated I think he is a psychopath.

[@classicgameplay10]

Everybody who eats meat is, meaning 99.9 % of all humans and animals that ever existed.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

He is a psychopath

[@spikey288]

Just because someone doesn't care about something doesn't make them a psychopath.

[@CarnismDebunked]

"I don't care and you didn't convince me to care" seems to be the most fashionable tactic now when doing online debates/discussions with vegans.

[@Levon2464]

The thing is most don't care what vegans say or show.

[@CarnismDebunked]

@@Levon2464 yeah you don't because you've got no morals. Some people do though, and they go vegan.

[@Altrop]

Because if non-vegans don't say that, you vegans will keep rambling on FOR EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE VER, hoping to convince more people. This is where the joke "How do you know someone's a vegan? They'll fucking tell you!" comes from. You're annoyingly aggressive in trying to convince other people, all the time. You may not even notice it. Every vegan I've met kept casually bringing up animal suffering, climate change etc every time I touched any meat or animal product. Annoying people is a terrible way to try convincing them of your beliefs.

[@mazi2646]

Yes online they pretend.

[@chandir7752]

​@@Levon2464yeah but you can say "I don't care" about any issue. Why care about anything if you don't even care about the biggest suffering production on the planet? We can't make any progress and wouldn't have abolished slavery or any immoral societal norm with that attitude.

[@jimmyrobertson3873]

Joey and others convinced me many years ago to go vegan i tried 3 times over 8 years but vegan over 3 years now I've been sober 6 years too I went from drink drugs chaotic lifestyle to straight sober and mentally clear. I look forward to meeting Joe at our vegan campout next week :)

[@Empathy4Animals411]

[@gaborszadai1992]

_campout next week_ Where✌🏻🌿...?

[@Alfredojunior192]

Well done for quitting the drink and drugs. Have a burger to celebrate

[@el29]

Vegan is bad. Simple as that if you have studied through all religions and evolutionary biology and history and hunter and gathers and so on. The best diet is Vegan + Small fish as samon and such and then some wild flying birds in balance. Low hierechy birds and fishes came from the same dinosariour reptil behaviour in general speaking... But tho cows and pigs, i have a issue with eating on a moral plane [if its to often]. But to eat a fish that eat other fishes as a predator or a vegan fish that is more or less a dinsaour or a reptile or snake or a dinosarour bird or what ever... Yeah who cares.. And they dont care about you either for five cents. Even the highest evolutionary birds as eagles - kidnaps and take away human babies also. They are more or less more "reptile like" as a dinosaour and cold blooded so to speak. Then a cow or pig or horse or zebras or elephants..... Sooo in evolutionary terms, nah fishes and birds who cares mostly if they are low in herichy standard evolution. Same with eating insects. But land mammals that are very close in hierchy to humans or high in level intelligence or emotions and so on and warm blooded and birth living animals, is a big difference. So nah its not good to eat them [atleast not to often]. But if you hunt these animals - hunt them in the real wild like a Moose etc, better you shoot that one then wolfs comes around and scratches and bites it and tortures it into horror. Also moraly when it comes to eat other animals that are predators - etc ice bears that are famous for totaly being the most dangerous animal of all time that even easily attack humans and eat them alive or crocodiles or wolfs or lions - I couldnt care less. As a human as a predator - killing another predator - can never be wrong. And when you kill that ice bear in hunting you have saved all the thousands of vegan animals that bear Lives on. Even Omnivore bears that can eat meat and veggies, they choose to eat meat alot also. So if you kill them you save thousands of animals. So really, i can never feel empahty to kill etc a crocodile that swallows humans on the beaches or animals with thousands of victims constantly. Will never happen. Can never be morally wrong.

[@margaretstewart2575]

Well done joey. Vegan for the animals. 🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱💚💚💚💚💚💚💚💚💚💚💚👍👍👍👍👍🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@mattshaw6434]

Its a shame the Garden of Eden (Vegan) conversation didn't come up. That might've been good as a way to break down the 'made in of the image of god' rebuttle. Saying that, well done Joey for dealing with Tristan's 'I don't care' tactic and coming across as level headed and cooly demeanered.

[@daylight3325]

One Adam and Eve weren’t vegan 2 he’s an atheist and your following his views. Haram

[@miaowmail]

@@daylight3325 Adam and Eve were vegan until they got kicked out of the garden of Eden

[@hiking1388]

It is vexing when they use Christianity to justify slaughterhouses. However, he also stated he is a capitalist. Can't think of a more anti-capitalist religious figure than Jesus Christ. Why is he even a Christian if he is so focused on maximizing profit? It just doesn't make sense to say "I'm a Christian" and "I'm a capitalist". It's like saying, "I follow Jesus' teachings" and "I don't follow Jesus' teachings".

[@spiral-m]

and the environment re. human rights - not from a vegan perspective necessarily but from a human-rights one re. his chosen diet

[@leenolan1469]

Literally says on page 1 of the Bible to be vegan 😐

[@sam3524]

Tate: "I have a healthy mindset" Tate: "Inflicting immense amounts of cruelty and suffering to an animal is justifiable as long as it gives you a tiny amount of utility"

[@Vegan_scorpioo]

Also inflicting pain to women

[@red9xcc]

@@Vegan_scorpioogrow up

[@treewitch666]

While he chugs Ona big cancer poop

[@Biggy733]

@@Vegan_scorpioo kid

[@jondon3182]

Tate: I believe we should cause the least suffering possible, but I know that it's naive to think that meat and dairy as part of the current food production system has more negatives than benefits for our species. You: THIS GUY JUST ADMITTED HE HATES ANIMALS AND WANTS TO SEE THEM GASSED AND TORTURED TO DEATH SO LONG AS HE CAN HAVE A STEAK

[@tcjones20]

This guy is just playing a character that is an edge-lord by saying stuff like "I don't care about animals" etc. Otherwise, he is a bona fide sociopath, which I guess is also possible. But I doubt it. The character he is playing is appealing to a lot of 15 to 25 year old kids, which makes him a lot of money. This "debate" was basically a waste of time in terms of getting any meaningful dialog between him and Joey. The only reason to do it was for Joey to potentially plant some seeds in the heads of this clown's audience.

[@ysq724y]

Bingo

[@MusicJunkie37]

@az9qw Wait until you find out more plants are grown to feed the animals compared to eating them directly 🙃

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

​@@ysq724yyea, Tate won the carnist and psychopath BINGO

[@leviahimsa]

Humans are animals. Human rights are *literally* animal rights. If he only cares about humans: 925 million humans (1 in 9) suffer from hunger, yet 80 billion animals enslaved in farms are given enough human edible food that could support 4 billion humans directly. -University of Minnesota The only diet ever scientifically shown to reverse our leading cause of human death (Cardiovascular Disease kills 33% of humans), with 99.4% success, is a *Whole Food Plant Based* diet. -Esselstyn, journal Family Practice The most comprehensive *meta-analysis* conducted to date with 119 countries, shows avoiding animal products is the *"SINGLE BIGGEST WAY"* to reduce our environmental impact. -journal Science The digestive system of hominin species, including homo sapiens, are frugivorous, greater than 50% fruit intake. -Gaulin and Konner, 1977; Gittins and Raemaekers, 1980; Andrews and Martin, 1991; Leighton, 1993; Milton, 1993; Rowe, 1996 Killing and eating other's body parts is not part of the natural human food chain.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

​@az9qware you talking about that movie?

[@goat2503]

Very difficult conversation to have with someone who was literally saying they do not care, you remained calm, patient and respectful, nice work Joey.

[@richcohen5936]

Screw compassion..rainbow moron! Go to Ukraine and show your compassion there.. We don't care about weak cowards like you anyways!! How did evolution fail to root out bad genes like yours.

[@barbaraibiel]

No, it is not. “I don’t care” is not an ethical argument. Morality should not be based on feelings but on reason (rationality) and scientific knowledge. Tate failed to present an argument that killing animals for food is amoral.

[@aspirewot8408]

​@@barbaraibielsame thing was said during slavery 😂

[@barbaraibiel]

@@aspirewot8408 And it would be illogical if it was said about slavery.

[@aspirewot8408]

@@barbaraibiel back then when people were trying to end slavery they said the same thing :D . Like na they're not similar to us which had scientific evidence to back it up , and look now where we are .??

[@MindKeys]

Thanks, Joey, honestly this was a great debate just because Tristan acknowledges that it is cruel and has no empathy for it, there really is no argument against someone who knows the truth but has no empathy for the cruelty. On the bright, this has given the vegan movement more exposure, and I'm sure a percentage of his following maybe reconsider their moral standpoint on the topic!

[@carlesriberaberenguer7469]

leaving to die thousands or milions of your sperm brothers when you made it to your mother's egg its also cruel. Flash news, the way nature works is that life comes from consuming the life around, cruel I agree. Only humans could think they can be above nature.

[@memegoddd1059]

Literally nobody will become fucking vegan from this podcast

[@johnstrong5436]

Why would they? Tristan successfully shut down his arguments. Joey tries to elevate the argument to animals being equal in some kind of cosmic balance. This might work with some agnostic or atheist people, but it doesn't with religious types. Added to that Tristan has killed and butchered his own animals. He has a very very clear understanding of what is involved. So have I, by the way. It isn't pleasurable, but it isn't something I feel guilty about either. I have a freezer full of such meat. Most of the people Joey debates find the whole thing squeamish and that's his in on a morality argument. It failed here. Ultimately Joey's approach to debating isn't successful against someone sure of themselves and comfortable with it.

[@Firstname_Surname]

@@johnstrong5436 I think Joey needed to stress that one doesn't have to morally equate between humans and animals in order to not support the unnecessary killing of animals. That is, I don't need to believe a cow is as "valuable" as a human in order to not kill it, I just need to believe it has enough value to not be killed unnecessarily. If you understand that a sentient being has a consciousness and the ability to suffer, and you can practically get your nutrition elsewhere, there is no moral justification in inflicting suffering, cruelty and killing that animal, unless you don't believe that causing suffering and cruelty is morally reprehensible, which would probably put you in the minority of humans. Tristan says he doesn't care about animals, but then says he would prefer that the animals be killed in a humane way. If you do not care about animal welfare at all, you would not care about how they are killed. This means that Tristan believes animals have some inherent value that needs to be addresses. This inherent value, for vegans at least, simply grants the right to live and not suffer, not some comprehensive animal right bill and social security plans like we have for humans, so there's a big difference. There is also the element of hypocrisy for many people, that unlike Tristan do not believe humans should eat certain animals, like dogs, which Tristan spoke about the breeding part of it, but essentially the argument for not torturing/killing animals, at least from the vegan perspective, is based upon their ability to suffer, and not what they were bred for. In addition, I believe Joey should've spoken about all of the ecological factors surrounding this issue as well.

[@Empathy4Animals411]

@@Firstname_Surname If a psychopath doesn't care about something specific like the suffering of an animal, why would he care about something vague like the "environment"? It shouldn't be conflated with animal rights anyway. BTW I do happen to think a cow's life is equal to a human's -- actually more equal if that human happens to be an arrogant psychopathic dirtbag spewing hate and pretending to be spiritual.

[@jjmendoza2007]

The Bible that he follows with all his heart tells him not to eat pigs yet he is eating pigs.🤔 I don't get these religious people..

[@destinationliberation9952]

He said he doesnt eat pork. I would have asked him if he eats shellfish and if Jesus was a capitalist.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

​@@destinationliberation9952no, he said he loves bacon. He said it many times.

[@sunbernbug]

My thoughts exactly! He says the Bible tells him what animals he can and cannot eat.

[@stookful]

Religious people adapt the8r beliefs to suit their interests.

[@pigstonwidget]

it's all made up shit, that's why 😂

[@LiftingStress]

He comes off just like his brother in terms of being a hedonist. Lack of empathy to other sentient beings or even the environment. He has a eat or be eaten mentality and cherry-picks his religious dogmas to justify eating meat then moved to taste pleasure immediately. He made sure not to even have a debate because he knew he'd be cornered otherwise he would have tried to push a point or inconsistency. I hope his viewers caught that. You did great Joey not being the "angry vegan."

[@AlwaysBubblin]

He made sure to say it wasn't a debate because he doesn't disagree with Joey's choices or how he came to his conclusion(as he stated over & over again); he just hasn't come to the same conclusion with the same information. Stop writing your own narratives to cope. This was two guys discussing why they believe what they believe, he doesn't need to have morally consistent argument.

[@henryphillips3150]

You are still apart of killing animals if you eat anything that is commercial farmed

[@uncleiroh5619]

His religious perspective is also completely flawed and uses God's name to justify the taking of life. He has clearly not even researched the origins of Jesus nor the cultures that he was brought up in. He has no awareness of the Essene Gospel of Peace nor the original gnostic-roots of Christianity. He hasn't even looked into the original Biblical texts. And then he says he believes in Jesus Christ and therefore eating meat is ok. Thou shall not kill, neither other humans nor animals or the food that we eat. Absolute delusion. He should look into the original commandments that the Lord gave, as well as how Jesus lived (the original text). And EVEN IF the altered commandments were true, he still argues against himself... He references Leviticus and yet continuously states how he likes eating pig. "And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you". Furthermore, where in Bible did Jesus ever eat mammals? Full of controversies that undermine his own justifications. "For God is the God of the living, and not the God of the dead." "And all were astonished at his wisdom, and asked him: "Continue, Master, and teach us all the laws which we can receive." And Jesus continued: "God commanded your forefathers: 'Thou shalt not kill.' But their heart was hardened and they killed. Then Moses desired that at least they should not kill men, and he suffered them to kill beasts. And then the heart of your forefathers was hardened yet more, and they killed men and beasts likewise. But I do say to you: Kill neither men, nor beasts, nor yet the food which goes into your mouth. For if you eat living food, the same will quicken you, but if you kill your food, the dead food will kill you also. For life comes only from life, and from death comes always death. For everything which kills your foods, kills your bodies also. And everything which kills your bodies kills your souls also. And your bodies become what your foods are, even as your spirits, likewise, become what your thoughts are." Furthermore... if he wants to argue he cares for people, then take the selfish angle - it is far better for human beings and their future to eat healthy foods rather than consume suffering and death. It is far better for our environments and our mental states. If he truly cares about humans, he would not advocate self-destructive behavior that leads to worse future for humans.

[@samdaniels2]

@@ohbli_oh He really didn't. He performed awfully and made vegans look worse to Tate's audience.

[@terryscott2632]

They eat dogs & cats in Africa & Asia. Joey is good in pointing out the hypocrisy in racist westerners that cry about dogs being eaten while eating other meat. But Tristan isnt a hypocrite like those westerners. His mind is like Asians & Africans, he see all animals equal.

[@marisolferra8042]

Well done Joey! You are a class act! Thanks for being a protector for the vulnerable🐔

[@richcohen5936]

Screw compassion..rainbow moron! Go to Ukraine and show your compassion there..

[@FamilyFreedom]

Agreed 💯

[@daverobertson623]

Yes ... and it made fuck all difference

[@aussiecath]

Tristan’s fans now have tools to interact with vegans who try the strategies Joey used.

[@ServusCrux]

Animal lives dont matter

[@stocky9803]

Vegans should just stop over estimating how much meat eaters care about their agenda Tristan said it beautifully. We don't give a shit Theres nothing else to converse about, we simply don't care. It tastes good And I'll go a step further than Tristan and say you don't even need to know where it comes from to even care It's not a big deal and it's laughable that people base their entire personality around food

[@rubykirstine]

One of the first things that came to mind about Tate was sociopath. Thank you for staying so calm and collected, Joey.

[@richcohen5936]

Screw compassion..rainbow moron! Go to Ukraine and show your compassion there.. Screw compassion..rainbow moron! Go to Ukraine and show your compassion there..

[@StevenZissimos]

Eh... I wouldn't go that far. More like a lifetime of societal conditioning and desensitisation to animal suffering. I know because I've known people like that in my life. It's a bit hard to debate about veganism with someone who genuinely doesn't care.

[@rubykirstine]

@@StevenZissimos Of cause. Societal conditioning and desensitization are a part of it. But I am just being honest. There is something off about him.

[@nielss5945]

@@StevenZissimos Nono, this is not the case here. This is what a psychopath looks and sounds like. This guy would not blink if a cow gets tortured in front of him. He said it many times, believe him.

[@curtsk19]

If you focus on it all life has suffering. Unless you're somehow a self farming organic vegan

[@JannetLiebe-km5gh]

Thank You Joey on behalf of the animals God Bless You.🙏💚

[@el29]

God said in the bible - all animals ive given you.. And allowed meat, so why are you saying "God bless you" ? He already blessed us with that just as he said.

[@hanumaniam]

The value of this interaction is not with Tait. He is unreachable. There's little chance he has capacity for compassion and empathy in anything but a severely limited way. The value may come from some of those watching being woken up in an outreach fashion. Well done to Joey for keeping it together when faced with this kind of person.👍👍

[@elliotlee9577]

What a lousy argument. He already said that animal lives and human lives are different. Of course compassion and empathy are not going to be there. Like duh.

[@hanumaniam]

@@elliotlee9577 your comment makes almost no sense

[@elliotlee9577]

@@hanumaniam How can you feel empathy for something you know is bred for being killed; to be food on your table? So what's the point of stating the obvious. Doesn't that make you dumb?

[@hanumaniam]

@@elliotlee9577 are you asking how people can feel empathy for a sentient being that has been bred purely for food? Your way of communicating is frustrating.

[@elliotlee9577]

@@hanumaniam Did you watch the video? Saying he lacked compassion or empathy is a moot point, especially when he clearly draw a distinction between animals and humans. Got it? It's like saying I got no empathy when I view food as food. It's lazy, stupid, even.

[@henrytwomey9539]

Great stuff Joey. I’ve always loved the way you educate people about slaughterhouses etc., but to watch you hold your ground exceptionally well against Tristan - who is already educated but doesn’t care about animals aside for their human gratification - proved to me you are the vegan GOAT.

[@jimmymann1496]

Joey may have held his ground but he definitely struggled in this conversation. Tristan didn’t fall for any of Joey’s guilt trips and just simply spoke the truth which Joey struggled to counter

[@MariusMitrache]

Tristan’s view in a nutshell: “I don’t care unless it’s my property”

[@nitrojanks2977]

How we should all be

[@Jay-son.]

@@nitrojanks2977 Exactly. Mind your own business, why should I give a fuck if someone else kills their dog?

[@nitrojanks2977]

@@Jay-son. happens every single day

[@BPrpich]

Congrats you understand words. Was your comment suppose to be a gotcha?

[@alejandrooo14]

As expected, Tristan literally jumped from logical fallacy to logical fallacy (appeal to nature, appeal to tradition, appeal to futility, ad populum, ad ignorantiam, false analogy and a few more). However, as most people (especially non vegans) have never studied or even read about logic, his “arguments” will look perfectly fine to them, plus he shows a lot of confidence, so he must be right. And that’s why it is so hard to fight the status quo.

[@360Fov]

So your logic is that it's hard to get people to stop eating meat because an arbitrary selection of fallacies from Wikipedia are projected on a conversation between Tristan and Joey? Or am I indulging in incredulous fallacy right now? Seems to me that it'd be more logical to presume altering people's inherent value system, and somehow normalizing it to a baseline level is the issue....not a lack of 'studying or even reading about logic'. It's wild that you say 'especially non-vegans'...who on Earth has conducted a study on 'Vegans vs. Non-Vegans: Studying / Reading About Logic'. There's no such data...what would make you come out with a capricious presumption other than essentially making something up to direct as an insult to the intellect of people with other preferences than yours? I can't see any other logical reason for saying it. It's like wearing blue shoes and declaring that all people with red shoes are ill-educated on the matters of debate deconstruction. WILD. Talk about a fallacy. The irony is crazy lol

[@jondon3182]

Do you not see the stupidity of expressing how other people 'haven't read about logic' (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) yet completely ignoring Joey's nonsensical hypothetical argument about replicating humans and calling it a "logical consistency game". You are a complete imbecile

[@plurabelle5]

@@360Fov Carnism makes you think irrationally just like any other religion or ideology you've been conditioned into.

[@donaldmack2307]

Sure, but people don't usually become vegans because of "logic". Sure, some do. Some meat eaters use logic to justify eating meat.

[@evilsbrowndog4068]

Better than appealing to absolute bullshit like non meat eaters do.

[@yams4610]

Omg Tristan is such a psychopath 😢😢😢 poor animals. Thank you Joey for standing up for what's ethical and moral❤😢

[@actionjackson1836]

omg you're such a dork

[@imperiumaustralis5337]

Utter moron

[@elliotlee9577]

So everyone who eats meat is a psychopath then? 😂

[@guanyeuansim3912]

Lmao based on your logic, 99% of people are psychopaths.

[@Ghosty716]

So 90% of the world are psychopaths for eating food 😂

[@TheVeganMooncat]

While I completely disagree with Tristan about killing animals I do appreciate he didn’t lie and jump through hoops to justify eating animals like most meat eaters who fake caring. He just admits he doesn’t give a f*ck, I think most meat eaters feel exactly like Tristan if they drop the mask of fake caring and stop bullsh*ting us. Go Vegan ❤

[@Empathy4Animals411]

​@@chrisf2952 The moment you become aware of the cruelty and suffering that animals go through on farms and slaughterhouses, you are then culpable for your own actions from that point on. So what's YOUR excuse for continuing to participate in pure evil? You have no valid one.

[@ruthietherainbowroo7432]

I think he's playing a part for his brand, this conversational tactic is very smart for this argument. You can't really say much against someone who doesn't care, and it makes him not a hypocrite. He mentioned his followers, the chat many times, because he's focused on who makes him money.

[@el29]

What a moronic explainiation....... Not all animals live in farms or "slaughterhouses 2023 fabrics"... Omfg.... Lets say it simple if i a shoot a moose outside my cabin and it dies in the free and lived to its 90 years old,, insted of 5 wolfs coming and scratching it down and biting it in torture and eating it alive or a bear and so on... I will never feel Guilty... Neither will i feel empathy to kill an ice bear or a wolf or a crocodile or a snake or other predators that swallows thousands of vegan animals in a life time. Even crocodiles and ice bears and eagles are known for snatching humans and [RIP] they dont give a shit. So morally it can never be wrong to kill another predator and save thousands of vegan lifes. Also it depends on moral within the neuroscientific hierchy of development within the context, if we are talking about neuro feelings and intelligence and brain complexity in a nerv system from an ant or if we are talking about a Horse or a cow that is vegan. so anyway, nah vegan "reality" isn't so simple in black and white thinking... Tss @@Empathy4Animals411

[@el29]

@@Empathy4Animals411 You mean - like you are writing on youre phone or youre laptop right now that produces batteries - that produceses slavery for humans and destroys the climate in sick ways and hence animals ? Or do you mean when you eat avacados in youre store and million of bees get slaughtered constantly to produce it constantly. Or what do you mean ? You participate in pure evil even right now when you are watching youtube and supporting Google or using Apple iphones - when people take sucide in chinese factories..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............. Just be silent hypocricy. Dont bother responding i dont use youtube notifications. But get a grip.

[@huwwackman_excel]

Pointless to argue with someone with no compassion towards an innocent animal. Good work trying to make people aware as always. PEACE.

[@donolonisa5787]

Pointless for Shitty Vegan's in disposal diapers trying to eliminate billions of years of Animal Meat Consumption 😊

[@henryphillips3150]

You are still apart of killing animals if you eat anything that's farmed, which is all food

[@cockroachv]

Innocent nor guilty doesn’t apply to the animal kingdom. Do we prosecute a bear for killing a fish or even a human? Of course not. It’s what nature does. We as humans are on top of the food chain and we may do what we please to animals for our health and wellness.

[@samdaniels2]

@@cockroachv "We as humans are on top of the food chain and we may do what we please to animals for our health and wellness." So is your argument: P1. Any individual which is higher than another indiviudal in the food chain is morally justified in eating them P2. Humans are individuals which are higher than all other animals C. ∴ Humans are morally justified in eating animals. Is that a fair assessment of your arguement?

[@robertpace5]

@@samdaniels2 I think you are right. It's just another way to say "might makes right". Using that logic, if I am more powerful than other humans I can abuse them too. And I can justify it by saying "I just don't care about other people." It's a very easy position to defend, but it make it apparent that the person simply lacks compassion.

[@cloesousa3404]

It was impressive how you kept your cool even when Tristan said things that are probably very triggering emotionally to you. I aspire to be like you and I believe all vegans should. You took the opportunity with bravery and you made the best out of it that you could. More importantly you never let go of your integrity towards Tristan, just like you never let go of your integrity towards animals. This video is a great way to teach vegans how to act around non-vegans, even when they say things you fundamentally disagree with and that trigger you (which is super important for the vegan movement!). And I think some of Tristan's audience probably ended up with a more positive idea of vegans after this, which really is the most you could ask for. Congrats, Joey! Super productive afternoon!

[@el29]

"Yeah very impressive" - to behave and have rational arguments and have self discipline and have self control and not get all "emotional"... What a "strong person you must be". - Nope its just called a mature person..... Nah - nothing to get praised for that,.... But as often, vegans, feminists and leftists - often can't handle there emotions. Hence like teenagers doing activism and screaming and chanting from emotions". And its funny in statistics that the older people become - more and more they become right leaning....... Its often teenagers who get trapped in ideologies and it takes sometime before they face the real world, hence they start to change in logic.... But those who are stuck there when they are 50... yeah sad.......... Dont bother responding i dont use YT notifications.

[@jakedub1497]

I can’t believe tate said he doesn’t care if you abuse your dog as long as it pleasures your senses like alligator shoes. I’m not a fan of him anymore.

[@Jay-son.]

He's right though.

[@qkea]

He never said that? smh

[@nish2.13]

I find it funny how this more than one hour debate is like- "They kill animals, it's cruel." - "Yeah, so!"

[@maggot1111666]

Tristan came off as an evangelical who doesn’t care how animals are treated. Joey came off as somebody advocating for non violence and rational thinking. I’m not sure anybody “won” but there was definitely a clear role model

[@candorsspot2775]

Non violence is a satanic position. God wants us to do what's right, not be weak pacifists.

[@kelyrin-douceuretdessin9476]

Love this comment 💓

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

Perfect point. Sadly, this Tate guy thinks of himself as a good role model for males.

[@Altrop]

When you, as a vegan, have to take vitamin supplements or food fortified with vitamins just so you don't die from your diet, that's Darwin telling you we are supposed to eat animals / animal products.

[@user-nj8sw5nf2f]

​@@kelyrin-douceuretdessin9476Go protest the lion that ate the zebra then 😅. No meat eating should be allowed specially if we're giving animals the same rights as humans. 🤡🌎

[@shinyapple9185]

It's not easy to have a discussion with an emotionally stunted person.

[@Dynan117]

Yeah he's really unconscious. It was painful and sad to watch.

[@barbaraibiel]

Emotions have nothing to do with morality.

[@middleeastroads]

Emotions are reserved for human. Not for chickens. Thanks but no thanks. 99 percent of the world agreed with me and dont feel for chickens and u all know it. U guys are a bit more emotional like kids and we cant help u

[@barbaraibiel]

@@middleeastroads “Emotions are reserved for human. Not for chickens.” What do you mean by that? I don’t want your emotions, and I am a human. Keep your emotions. And if I want to have emotions for chickens rather than you, that is my business. You don’t get to control other people’s emotions. If you meant to say that chickens lack emotions, then google: “The World According to Intelligent and Emotional Chickens” and read the article in Psychology Today. “Thanks but no thanks.” For what? “99 percent of the world agreed with me” Logical fallacy: argumentum ad populum. “and dont feel for chickens and u all know it.” Well, I don’t feel for you but that does not mean that it would be moral for me to kill you. “U guys are a bit more emotional like kids and we cant help u” No, you are the one, who is emotional. Your entire comment is about emotions, when emotions have nothing to do with this debate.

[@Jad490]

Killing animals doesn’t make us emotionally stunt. Funny how you think you can correlate our emotions towards animals with emotions towards humans

[@donaldduck5202]

It’s obvious who eats meat and who doesn’t 💀💀💀

[@dereks860]

Well done Joey. I applaud your efforts to communicate your message.

[@Jay-son.]

Tristen destroyed him

[@kevinandrewrea3]

Thank you so much Joey. Never stop fighting against extreme ignorance & violence.

[@el29]

You mean when 50 billion bees dies constantly for youre almond milk or avacados ?

[@miaowmail]

Joey - don't know if you;ll see this, but I see this as a great success and real progress. 1- He didn't call you a soy boy or insult you for being vegan 2.- He didn't equate masculinitiy with eating meat 3 - He actually said standng up for what you believe in, doing what you do, (even though he doesn't agree with your views) he respects you for doing it and even said to you at one point, keep doing it This is MONUMENTALLY HUGE and really, you had to be the one to do it. With your criminal past, gangbanger all the things you've done, you're the only vegan activist I think that would get respect from him and you've done a wonderful service for the vegan movement by doing this debate. So much of what the Tate brothers preach (the postiive aspects anyway) are about personal self development for men, masculinity, going to the gym, being fit, being a provider and protector, making money, being successful and you've shown to his audience that a vegan man can be all of those things. Ergo, some of his followers who might care about dogs / pigs etc.. have had a barrier broken down today - they can be all of those things and vegan. Being vegan doesn't affect their masculinity or health / prowess at all . This might not seem like much on the face of it, but so much of vegan youtube is preaching to the already converted. This is bringing the concept of veganism to an entirely different audience - and implying its OK for them to be vegan. It's fine. It's a non-issue. (Go back ten years and being a vegan caused a massive issue in terms of perceptions of masculinity, all the soy boy jokes and stereotypes of wastoid boys with dreadlocks, weed and no job) All in all, you really did a great job, Joey. I wouldn't be surprised if this goes down as a seminal moment in vegan history when lots of these types of guys all consider going vegan and all the gyms start to fill up with vegan protein shakes in their vending machines. Lets hope so! My second point: Religion. Tristan brought religion up and implied as a non believer you weren't allowed to comment on this. Now, I know you went into. the discussion as a vegan , you weren't expecting to discuss theology. I think its a great idea to learn from some of the vegan Christians and vegan Muslims (as well as other religions out there) for these types of issues. Richard Dawkins isn't a believer but religious people debate him all the time. Your belief or lack thereof isn't relevant, just being familiar with the text is. He talked about Leviticus - but he says he is a Chrisitan not a Jew. When Jesus Christ came he superceded Leviticus and all the other rules .. When people bring up Leviticus food rules I always think.. why just the food? why not keep a few slaves as well (Ok maybe good you didn't ask Tristan that given recent charges) but Leviticus has loads of bonkers rules that no one follows, you need to put your neighbour to death if he works on a Sunday, you can't wear clothing made of two different fabrics etc.. etc.. yet its only ever the food rules that are brought up. However this really is a Jewish argument - as followers of Jesus Christ follow the new testament (although some Christians pick and choose Leviticus as some evangelicals are obsessed with homosexuality) Many Christians use Romans 14 to justify eating meat. But if you read on to Romans 15 and 16, the apostle Paul goes being very clear that we're meant to be vegan. Animal agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation, wildlife extinction and climate change, and it introduces diseases into the human population. Consuming body parts not only hurts animals but it also hurts other people. Judging other people doesn't help anything but pointing out what's true is a way to help everyone. 19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall. Totally recommend anyone reading this pick up why every Christian should be a vegan' by Ryan Hicks - you might not be Christian yourself but it will give you the answers if you're debating with Christians who are using the Bible. I know many are vegans are atheist and don't care about this at all. Just imagine if all Christians started reading their Bible properly and all went vegan. Wouldn't that be amazing!

[@mr.spaceman7106]

The second part on the bible was very informative, thank you. I liked your comment as whole too, very good points and was important to point out. I'm definitely close to the wastoid pot head vegan tho 😭, but I am employed and shaving off apathy 💪

[@miaowmail]

@@mr.spaceman7106 thank you! There’s nothing wrong with being part of the stereotype it’s more about welcoming everyone into veganism across the board

[@mr.spaceman7106]

@@miaowmail 💯

[@lauratanln]

Thank you for the information in the Bible. I'm motivated to look into the BIble to take a photo of these words now

[@zantecarroll4448]

thank you for your thoughtful comment ❤ i think you are a good activist ❤

[@jacksondaniels9960]

Joey mate, you deserve millions for your causes for the animal kingdom. Your heart and conscience is so much bigger bigger than these Tate bros. Top Lad, Top G Joey.

[@yusdi-yoos-dee]

I just appreciate Joey so much, that’s all

[@jimx45]

OK

[@jooulez]

you can't discuss with psychopaths, who have no empathy, about sentient beeings beeing tortured and killed. I think he only plays a role. Because "I don't care about animals" is the only "argument" you can't argue anything against, just like when a racist says he doesn't care about black people. the conclusion would then be: he is a psychopath. he has a very big ego and doesn't want to risk you defeat him. good job joey, thank you for having the nerve to discuss with him.

[@asherray4969]

Tristan Tate is half black btw his father was African American

[@fr4ctl]

​​Ehhh, but if you're going by his pigmentation, he ain't...

[@asherray4969]

@@fr4ctl He doesn't deny that he looks completely white. But it is important to note because people randomly throw the racism accusation at him. Just like how Slash from Gun's N Roses is half black half white. Look at someone like Shaun King who is lighter skinned than both Andrew and Tristan yet is somehow seen as a strong voice for black people. But then people say the Tate's aren't black. I just don't like they hypocrisy

[@barbaraibiel]

You CAN discuss morality with psychopaths because morality is not based on emotions but reason (rationality) and scientific knowledge. Do you honestly think that Ted Bundy did not know that what he was doing to women was immoral?

[@terryscott2632]

Joey's arguments only works on westerners. Asians & Africans eat dogs & cats. There's no hypocrisy & they are not desensitized to the slaughter process.

[@Vegan4Life_]

The world needs more men like Joey! 💚

[@barbaraibiel]

and women

[@ServusCrux]

No it doesn't!

[@barbaraibiel]

@@ServusCrux Yes, it does.

[@ServusCrux]

@@barbaraibiel no that would be extremely gay

[@barbaraibiel]

@@ServusCrux What does not murdering animals for one's taste pleasure have to do with sexual orientation???????

[@hamishjames1338]

Honestly, I thought Tristan spoke very well in this (and no I am not a fan of him or Andrew). Yes he is highly intelligent, but he is straight up honest and doesn’t fall into any of Joeys traps on making him feel guilty. This is the only person I’ve ever seen Joey somewhat struggle to debate with

[@uttam2274]

What was your expectation like? Did you want him to raise his finger on his religious beliefs? He(Tate) is quoting the lines of a particular book to justify his actions, now at this point at what level could you go upto? But, I have got a question for Mr. Tate, why did that superpower, to whom he's thankful for own life, make sentient living creatures for food options and not non-sentient food sources that would have not let us care about their feelings?

[@hamishjames1338]

I didn’t know much about Tristan and thought he’d put up some stupid arguments and just be a nuisance, but no he didn’t, and I had no idea that he was religious (I’m not religious at all). I’d have no idea how he’d answer your question, I’ve never read the bible

[@Mkvs68]

​@uttam2274 learn how to use your ears he literally Said it isnt a religious cut off for him he does it because he wants to and so does everyone else so how bout you piss off and leave people be.

[@VerdantJedi]

Tristan said humans are *morally superior* . If that is so, then why not realize that all animals are made for the compassion of man? The one who is the most superior, who is the most conscious is also the one who is vested with a lot of responsibility. A responsibility to do the highest level of good where no other creature on this world can. Those who are strong and righteous do not subjugate and exploit those who are weaker, who are helpless and who are innocent. Morality is no longer subjective or a dilemma when you are able to see yourself in others. All sentient beings tremble before violence. All fear death. All love life. Having moral agency means having the choice to do the right thing to the highest level. Go Vegan 🌱

[@stacyhuss9454]

Beautiful comment, thank you for this.

[@ServusCrux]

What evidence do you have that animals are made for human compassion

[@jimx45]

Morality is subjective that's why. There is no such thing as universal morality. I'll ask you why do you feel killing is wrong? Your answer will be "because I just feel like it." That sounds like a "I believe in God just because."

[@victoriousvegan2291]

“The worst sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them. That’s the essence of inhumanity.” George Bernard Shaw

[@jimx45]

Sounds like a real idiot. Did you say that and put someone's name on there so that person will get the flack instead of you?

[@itswrongtokillanimalsifyou2837]

11:10 Narrator: "Tristan's eyes revealed that this was one discussion he wished he'd prepared for after all." With people who say they don't care, you can really use it against them by making them say how they're OK with torturing dogs, etc. It will quickly cast them in a psychopathic light that's not going to be popular among their fans. If they say they don't care, take it there.

[@liawilbourn]

Love you Joey! Great job as always, thank you for everything you do, LEGEND! Pay no mind to the criticisms. Every conversation/debate is different depending on who is debating. You are smart to have taken the strategy you took. 💚💪

[@Sebloe]

Tristan: I’m against animal cruelty Also Tristan: killing an animal is inherently cruel. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@spikey288]

*"I'm against needless animal cruelty, however if its for the consumption of meat it's ok". Misrepresentation.

[@leonardoterzani9639]

@@spikey288 If shoes made of crocodile skin are a "need", then anything could be labeled as a need. Even dog fighting or bestiality. Therefore the attribute "needless" you are using has no meaning actually

[@NotiAmSomebody]

Everybody wants to kill someone but the only reason they don’t is because they obey by the stupid government law we should get a reward for killing people animals too oh but you don’t kill because you don’t want to go to prison. But animals don’t do they and they will stop at nothing to kill humans so why feel sorry for animal cruelty when they kill humans too

[@spikey288]

@@leonardoterzani9639 He doesn't label animal skins as a need, in fact he explicitly stated the opposite, that living vegan is entirely possible in today's society. He said that choosing between vegan and non vegan is a choice, it's not a necessity.

[@leonardoterzani9639]

@@spikey288 So he said: 1) "I'm against needless animal cruelty, however if its for the consumption of meat it's ok". 2) "Animal skins are not a need". Therefore killing animals for their skin represents a form of needless animal cruelty, which he supports by buying those shoes. But he says he is against needless animal cruelty. It doesn't sound consistent

[@jjmendoza2007]

Joey thank you for everything you do for the animals. 💚 🙏 Only kindness matter..

[@fpvvsford]

Summary: Joey "killing animals is crewl and wrong" Tristan "I don't care"

[@elliotlee9577]

That’s why he already said there won’t be a debate because nothing Joey says will change his mind or position. Tate knows his stuff by the way. There was nothing new or interesting presented by Joey anyway.

[@davidcrosier2761]

​@@elliotlee9577basically you can't argue with someone whose argument is "God created man in his own image to do whatever he wants with animals". You can't say anything to change someone's mind if they don't care about cruelty and suffering..

[@elliotlee9577]

@@davidcrosier2761 Maybe Joey is just weak. Ever thought about that? Or maybe veganism is just crap. A lousy ideology, like feminism. Easily refuted, discarded.

[@BravEarth]

Thank you Joey for everything you do. I think that something you both agree on is that some people are not willing to change and I believe that polarization is good in the sense that we should try to talk to people who are already going in the direction of veganism or compassion in general. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have spoken to him: I think it was a great opportunity to speak to many people and hopefully some of them are leaning towards compassion. I also believe that the more people are going in the other direction (I mean the more they get defensive about their choices) the fewer they will be.

[@Vovoxa7]

I've been a fan of Joey for a long time but I'm really disappointed with how he handled this discussion There were a bajillion things he let the Tate brother get away with and did not address Tate said a ridiculous amount of absolute nonsense and word salad; and because it was said with a particular tone and confidence, their teen fans are gonna eat it all up Really very much feel Joey could have done a far better job on such an important discussion Also I feel Tate did many manipulation tactics here; one example being Tate complimenting/commending Joey's comeback from his rough past, which definitely seemed to influence how Joey handled the rest of the discussion -edit, finished the video now and Tate brother still came across like a complete idiot with zero empathy and compassion Also, wtf is with the blowing sound of his mouth from the cigar; only absolute tossers smoke cigars like that, what a compensation and what a complete twat Only image matters with people like this, genuinity is at a zeeeerroooo

[@dangerfulmind]

The blowing of his smoke was incredibly annoying.

[@samdaniels2]

Agreed mate. It was such a wasted opportunity. I wish there was a more competent debater going up against him, a competent debater could have pinned Tate in a corner in the first 5 minutes with that whole 'made in the image of God' nonsense.

[@elliotlee9577]

Your representative suck balls

[@UltraEgoMc]

@@dangerfulmindIt was cool 😂

[@softbune]

I think he did the best he could. Tate would not let him speak most of the time by talking over him. Joey did miss the opportunity to make good points, considering the fact that Tate would not even let him breathe in between his words in a single sentence. Intelligence does not determine the value of life. Tate is a class A gaslighter and manipulator (or at least he tries) 😂

[@VEGANnika]

Thank you so mutch for your courage, Joey ❤️☮️ Peace will always win! 🕊️

[@matesedits]

peace never won once in history XDDD

[@gmkid387]

​@@mateseditsFR

[@evilsbrowndog4068]

Have fun with that while we roast a pig, stupid.

[@VEGANnika]

​@@pacmanmcgavin7034You'd call it peaceful.... Killing innocent beings, when we don't have to?

[@TomVFormOfficial]

@@pacmanmcgavin7034If it would be you and your family in a factory farm ready to be killed you would call it a war. You don’t call it a war because you aren’t the victim.

[@Money_Mindset420]

L comment section. Animals are sustenance for humans since the beginning of human time. You keep your shit grass I’ll eat my lean muscular beef.

[@caitlingoodspeed1490]

I’m surrounded by people like this in my friend and family circle- they don’t care and it’s really frustrating and sad to see how disconnected they are- no matter how I spin a conversation they’ll just say “yum animals are delicious” and “I don’t care” and “it’s my meat” like I’m just so over the lack of empathy 💀

[@nikokapanen82]

As Tristan made the same point many times over that him nor most meat eaters love torturing animals for fun but raising them for food and killing them in less than a minute is not horrible at all. Most people have to go through much worse than that.

[@caitlingoodspeed1490]

@@chrisf2952 how so? We are just supporting animals.

[@gh0un]

You're the one who is disconnected from your human nature. Your friends and family don't care, because they are in line with their human natural behavior. Predatorial animals don't care about other animal's live, because they need them to live. That's the only argument.you need.

[@leenolan1469]

​@@nikokapanen82You think they are raised & killed in less than a minute? It's literally their entire lifetime...

[@halfwaysleet]

its a complicated issue... Some people thrive on a meat diet, and also you need some degree of cruelty to supply our current population with meat at an affordable price. I am opposed to the cruelty but I guess there is a utility from it and some people do benefit tremendously from the meat, I just wish there was a way to get meat without having to cause excessive suffering and pollution to the biosphere. Hopefully lab grown meat becomes more affordable and mainstream in the future.

[@Vegan_scorpioo]

Someone who doesn't regard women and sell them for profit, surely doesn't give a dam* about other innocence!

[@jimx45]

Tell that to the government that pretty much owns you. They are professionals in that field.

[@el29]

Tristan Tate Sell women for profit ? Are you fucking stupid ?

[@scispiracy]

When you have someone like Tristan who is trying to control the narrative, and is clueless about the meat and dairy industries and the myriad harm they inflict onto not only animals, but the planet, and apparently doesn't care about the torture and death that animals endure which he supports (contributes to it with his dollars) and boasts about eating them, he's telling the world that he's a controlling, arrogant sociopath. Thanks for letting everyone know that, Tristan! Well done! Joey, thanks for your level-headed and empathic approach to this discussion. You, unlike Tristan, clearly have a moral compass.

[@Dave-if5qj]

😂😂😂😂meat 🍖 and 🥛 and 🥚 eggs yummy

[@BrianHallmond]

I dont think he was trying to control anything. He was just blunt about not caring. Can't really "debate" someone who doesn't care. Both people had a respectful and honest conversation.

[@Dantheguitarman3]

Clueless? Tate knew more than Joey. Did you even watch the whole thing? Dumb.

[@TigerGhost1]

it's quite impressive that you watched a 2 hour discussion and this was the conclusion you reached about Tristan, you are sick in the head. Not even Joey probably agrees with your low iq comment.

[@Veganarchy-Zetetic]

​@@BrianHallmondI could debate pretty much everything he said. Joey seemed caught off guard and speechless. Shame as it felt like a wasted interaction to me.

[@Vivilyn78]

You’re very kind. I don’t know if I could be so kind in that situation. Thank you for all you do FTA! ❤

[@Chris-gh5kx]

I am a fan of tristan, I respect Joey for his passion and debate skills. We might have different opinions but we do respect people who brave enough to fight for their beliefs because most people can't

[@willbyrob6582]

Do you believe it is ethically acceptable to kill an animal for food? If so, what ethical difference between the two, in your view, would make it okay to kill one for food but not the other?

[@Chris-gh5kx]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@willbyrob6582where I come from, vietnam, we had a starvation in 1970 not too long ago when ppl starved to die or had to sell their children to be slaves so they can afford foods. So yeah, my country is buddhist country so there were veganism way before the west but noone go down the street and disturbing people for eating meat as it is nature. And as a christian now, I believe killing the right animal for food is morally and biblically right especially when there are a lot of people suffering from starvation nowaday but I respect vegan opinion, we are all sinners trying to live our best life based on our beliefs

[@skylark6167]

I don't understand his position. "It's not that I don't care about suffering" but also "I literally don't give a shit about suffering"

[@Dantheguitarman3]

Must be hard for your vegan brain.

[@chandir7752]

​@@Dantheguitarman3 Yeah it's hard, because vegan brains prefer not to have contradictory beliefs.

[@deusdedit9-]

He is confident, not logical. He doesn't care about the debate, his goal is to keep his baby chad- lings sucking his dick.

[@joopdaloop5840]

@@Dantheguitarman3what the logical one

[@kimberz7461]

Tristan: "There's a distinction between humans & animals" Humans ARE a species of animal 🙄 Tristan: We live in the real world. We're made in the image of God 🙄

[@wolfhugs2221]

Agree with you. Someone depending on the idea of an invisible friend as an argument isn't worthy of a debate. They'll believe whatever they want to, regardless of facts.

[@michalg4431]

@@wolfhugs2221 you are too dumb to understand that nigga

[@LiveMercifully]

@@wolfhugs2221 That's the wrong approach when you consider that there are nearly 3 billion Christians in the world, and like the rest of the world, the overwhelming majority of them are non-vegan. You don't reach people by insulting them or dismissing their most deeply-held beliefs. If secular vegans are sincere in wanting the public to go vegan, then they HAVE TO deal with Christians, just like with everyone else. I mean, unless you want to ignore nearly one third of the world's population. The good news is, meat-eating Christians are wrong, there IS a very good case to be made against the carnist status-quo, from a biblical perspective.The status quo is NOT God's perfect will, it is NOT how God created this world to be.... in the very beginning, in the Garden of Eden, there was no flesh eating, even the animals were herbivores (Genesis 1:29-30) and the bible is very clear that one day God will restore that peaceful Edenic world that was HIS idea in the first place. (See Isaiah 11:6-9) Some of us Christian vegans are trying to reach Christians with the message of biblical veganism, but the reality is, when it comes to animals, there has been a HUGE blindspot among Christians. I wrote a blog post about that a few years ago, on my blog, live mercifully dot com. The good news is, that is blindspot is beginning to be lifted, as more and more Christians are going vegan. But it's still a HUGE uphill battle. But again, my point is, if you want to reach Christians for veganism, don't insult or dismiss them, just be prepared for their "arguments" because from a biblical perspective, ALL of them can be debunked. My latest video was made with secular vegans in mind, to help them in how to respond to non-vegan Christians. I wish Joey would have seen that video before doing this debate, lol. I actually sent it to him, but I guess he didn't get my message.

[@jcb_123]

​@@wolfhugs2221Humans are mammals, but not animals. Humans were made to take care of the animals, and live for God. Everything was made in the image of God. It is healthier for humans to eat meat and more natural. Our Ancestors ate meat for generations and they were more healthier than us. Because that is the way God intended to. For humans to take care of animals and produce from them

[@wolfhugs2221]

@@jcb_123 prove who this god you speak of is?

[@abcuughklkj]

How are animals not as important as humans but then we choose to live their lifestyle because lions eat meat too argument..how is there any logic in this..

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

There isn't

[@ricardoneves7545]

There isn't. People will argue shit without thinking about just because they heard it somewhere else and it sounded logic to them

[@Altrop]

Animals are not as important as humans. If I gave you a gun, a random human and a random animal and you had to shoot one, you'd be a lunatic to shoot the human. Killing your own species to save others. So no, animals are not just as important as humans. Not by law and not by any moral standards.

[@jondon3182]

Because sharing traits doesn't mean we are trying to live like them. I wonder why the imbecile vegans can't convince people to agree with their position when they're so articulate and knowledgeable.... 😂😂😂😂😂 it's like you don't even want to try and understand what the guy is saying. Morons!!!!

[@yoachim91]

The logic is quite simple. Animals are not important, i could not care less and i like meat.

[@debbied.9763]

If Tristan cares about human suffering, then our meat industry is the source of so many people dying of hunger in countries that cultivate grains to feed our farm animals and in the countries where the rain forest is being decimated for cattle raising. The impacts are enormous from just these two things. I hope you bring this up, Joey. I know that you are focused on animal suffering, but this guy is only focused on human suffering, so get him where he's at.

[@TK-zc5wu]

A shark preys by its instincts it doesn't have concepts of right or wrong or cruelty ,

[@deisepolo]

Thank you Joey .Compassion is powerful in BIG way . The Tate guy is lack of beautiful powerful empathy, compassion and love . Very sad because he is being trapped into dangerous system.

[@haanssiver171]

I like how Tristain compares himself to a shark, the apex predator. News flash Tristan, you are not an apex. he should let Joey talk every now and again.

[@yoachim91]

We are the most dangerous land animal tho and we eat sharks so not so apex after all. He also said he would not be mad at a shark for biting him in half so it's not like he is delusional like you guys. Nha i like Joey getting his ass handed to him made my day.

[@aussieantics199]

Humans are the apex predators

[@saulibus1]

This conversation just proves that Tristan is fully in the matrix

[@IAmZanderStewart]

That’s one of the arguments I believe Joey missed here, to ask about choice and if he’s just inside the matrix he believes he not a part of… God and any idea can be manipulated to keep a human in the matrix, the most intelligent people are often the easiest to convince. It’s easy to train a smart dog, it’s not easy to train a dumb dog…

[@childrenoftheblacksun]

On the contrary, it’s the matrix that wants us to be vegan or eat crickets

[@saulibus1]

@@IAmZanderStewart yeah. Basically Tristan will have an existential crisis if he questions his own morality and the modern form of ‘Christianity’ which is used to normalize status quo.

[@saulibus1]

@@childrenoftheblacksun actually that’s a good point. In some ways your right because any form of change is gonna be monetized. Whether it’s grasshoppers, veganism, grass fed organic beef. Someone is gonna jump on it and become a money leech. However. Eating grasshoppers for protein is clearly better for the planet than the meat industry which is absolutely disgusting. Be a man. Eat a grasshopper. But what’s better is grow your own food. Take the power back. Don’t abuse animals. You can be an animal steward if you respect animals. Also for the record. I’m not interested in eating grass hoppers. I’m interested in creating ways of making food locally that has no external inputs. I’m not interested in fake veganism I’m interested in the real thing. Maybe Joey is abit fake veganism. The fact He’s drinking coke shows he’s in the matrix. But. At least he’s tryna stop animal from suffering unnecessarily. I’m also not interested in fake meat Eaters which is what Tristan is. At least he’s standing up for love of his fellow man.

[@childrenoftheblacksun]

@@saulibus1 now it’s obvious by your reply that you’re the one that is actually in the matrix!

[@jademelinlo]

I was just thinking about ego and finally just realized what it really feels like when I'm in ego and when I'm not.. and Tristan, you've lived in ego way too long.. recommendation would be to take off your shoes, sit outside with your feet on the ground, soak in the sun, and sit in stillness and nature. Without trying to look good. Just be alone and be in nature. That's it. I'm confident it'll be transformative.

[@el29]

Define ego ? You mean from buddhist stand point or carl jung or new age or what do you mean ? - What is ego the technical definition ? And do you know its heritage ?..... Ego is such a loose term,, its sad its thrown around.. Dont bother responding i dont use YT notifications.

[@tomiekk6255]

I think some good points that could be added to Joey side, that were not present are: 1. Humans evolved enough to progress in science in such a way, that we are capable of knowing that other species suffer. Neither shark nor any other animal won't ever read, get to know or be able to understand studies that tell that theirs, humans, and other animals brains share the same pain receptors. 2. Even if the above wasn't true. Other animals are unable to provide themselves food in other way sometimes. Polar bears won't become farmers, it took us milions of years of evolution to get where we are, and it is likely other species won't ever evolve in this direction, and even if they did, they are not there now. 3. We could argue that - yeah, other animals don't care about species they pray upon, so why should we care, but if somebody is unable to comprehand (not to confuse with doesn't want to) the effects of their action then it is not morally wrong of him. You don't compare yourself to toddler and say, well they can accidentally break TV and get away with it, so why should I pay for the TV that I broke you? You know that you have more cognitive abilities then a toddler and you don't use him as an example to justify you're behaviour of breaking someone's stuff, so why would you compare yourself to animals to justify killing them? It's just childish like behaviour, and he could point that out especially to Tate who is so much for the masuculinity hurr durr train don't care about the upvotes, but if you think it should deserve some visibility, please upvote it.

[@horty1788]

Upvote 😂? This isn't reddit

[@MindKeys]

I also feel like a nonethical argument against non-vegans is that it is really more resource efficient to be vegan both on water and land use, we can feed more people and the world wouldn't be starving.

[@lauratanln]

Very good points indeed!!

[@gh0un]

Your entire argument is based on the presupposition that suffering is bad. Who told you that suffering is bad? It's the modus operandi of the world. Every single human on earth is suffering, it's what gives us purpose. So what makes you think that suffering is bad? It's a beliefsystem to claim that it is bad, and no one has to agree with that notion, and I would greatly argue against that notion being correct. Suffering is good. It's necessary. It's part of life.

[@blixerie9317]

@@MindKeysthe world is starving?! Meat feeds literally billions of people.

[@jallen911]

You don’t need to convince Tristan to go vegan, the vast majority of people watching will be able to discern the most coherent and moral stance between the both of you. Well done Joey 🌱

[@HDvids101]

Millions of animals killed silently and called pests producing plants to eat worldwide ? Is this actually moral ? I see double standards or ignorance at play here.

[@AAS-fd6qb]

Joey lost the debate what are you on about?

[@valfanclub]

I disagree somewhat, because the majority of meat eaters will try to find a good coherent excuse to keep doing what they do. TT seems very skilled at approaching the topic. Not getting angry is already a win for Joey. And he started to make more relevent points towards the end, because there was a slide towards bs when the leather point came up, it seemed TT started to sound like an entitled prick. I think that's when joey started to sound like the better person .

[@valfanclub]

Towards the end, going down a more complex approach, making super humans for use such as war machines, etc, what would happen to our species and the argument of superiority over animals? I can see where Joey is trying to go and TT is just hiding behind his religious stance at that point.

[@sfdntk]

The people who watch the Tate brothers aren't going to be convinced of anything, they're mindless idiots who think mimicking Tristan's sociopathic demeanour will turn them into millionaire someday. They don't care, they're incapable of thinking rationally or they wouldn't be watching in the first place.

[@strangethingshappen]

Haha Joey carb strong had no idea how to debate someone that simply says they don't care. Tate is sitting there having a cigar and a beer and freestyling while the vegan is furiously typing and looking up his researched arguments. It's both pathetic and hilarious.

[@PvzLovesMinecraft]

Joey failed to trap tate

[@fayazzubair892]

Damn, Tristan Cooked You bruv🔥🔥

[@Nickh4929]

Yea he is based in reality unlike these soy vegans.

[@jenniferpeterson4139]

The sound of him exhaling the smoke from that cigar made my skin crawl. It was really hard to listen to him speak.He has no empathy.

[@Dawuud45]

YOU,RE sounding too dramatic

[@AlwaysBubblin]

this is what a privledged life and having no real problems does to you. Does the sound of the man smoking a cigar make your skin crawl does it? Fucking pathetic lmaooo

[@rvynnkun3044]

Boo hoo

[@henryphillips3150]

You are still apart of killing animals, everything that is farmed kills animals

[@UltraEgoMc]

😂😂

[@ryanhulse3791]

Some points that you should cover when debating; peer reviewed research. As an environmental scientist I have to cover many of these issues. 1 - Two thirds of the worlds habitable land surface is covered purely for animal agriculture. (Meaning less space for humans, less space for plant agriculture, cutting of forests, trees etc.) This amount is purely for animals for the meat, egg, dairy industry. This is the major reason of overpopulation of humans, shortage of crops for humans, in many areas up to 95% of the deforestation is due to solely this reason. This is one of the main reasons for the 50+ percent extinction rate in the last 100 years. 2 - Two thirds of the worlds crops that are grown are used for purely to feed the animals of animal agriculture. It was stated on several research papers that if we used one third of the food used to feed animals, it would end world hunger. This is a great argument for people who say “but growing crops for vegan kills insects” while this is true…. Your statement should be that two thirds of the worlds crops that are grown go to feed animals of animal agriculture. 3- while I can’t remember specifics, but I can get if anyone is interested. This was the main point, if we stopped all animal agriculture by 2025, it would offset the worlds pollution levels by 2035 meaning we would reach the 2050 goal solely by cancelling animal agriculture within the next 10 years. Animal agriculture is one of the main polluters of methane, nitrous oxide and carbon dioxide emissions. And these gasses are extremely detrimental to the ozone layer. The points stated above all have huge implications on humans, so as mentioned by Tristan in the video, eating meat from animal agriculture does in fact cause massive amounts of human deaths and as well as the most insect deaths, species extinction, deforestation, rainforest annihilation, ozone depletion. And as a environmental scientist now studying nutrition, here is also a peer researched fact (generalised one) Meat eaters risk of cancer is currently at 52%. Pescatarian currently roughly 43% risk of cancer. Vegetarian currently 28% risk of cancer. And vegans at 23% risk of cancer. You can check google for the cancer rates in the UK (I’ll save you the job) it’s 1 in 2. It’s not surprise. You never hear about this on the news or in the media. You can check yourself of these facts, I can link you if you do want the actual papers (writing on my phone rn although I have them all on my pc. What we eat has great impacts on our health and the stuff they use in meat has clear proven results that they cause cancer. Red meat is literally listed as a carcinogen (directly causes cancer) This will soon be proven for all meat. Edit; Okay here are some links and facts published by actual studies and research: A reduction in methane according to the Global Methane Assessment could prevent the following; 255,000 premature deaths. 775,000 asthma illness visits to hospitals. Loss of 73 billion labour hours. Crop loss of 26 million tons. (This is just for a reduction in methane, below you can read that animal agriculture is reported to produce between 35% - 40% of global anthropogenic (anthropogenic meaning caused by human activities) methane emissions The below is taken from "Livestock's Long Shadow: Environmental Issues and Options By Henning Steinfeld" Animal agriculture is causing roughly 35-40 percent of all anthropogenic METHANE emissions each year from animal’s digestive by-products, also from farm animal manure (Steinfeld at al. 2006). Farm animal production equates to about 65 percent of global anthropogenic emissions of NITROUS OXIDE (Steinfeld et al. 2006) This is produced when manure and urine from animals are deposited on the ground. Animal agriculture is causing approximately 9 percent of all CARBON DIOXIDE emissions in the world (Steinfeld et al. 2006) Check this study below and brilliant work, information and benefits/negatives on both sides (Published peer-reviewed work doesn't just work for one side it has to study as impartial - for anyone wondering if its a one-sided story) You can search the below on "Google Scholar" - For anyone interested in any type of research, this is how you access actual peer-reviewed research papers, not by typing into Google. "Livestock's Long Shadow: Environmental Issues and Options By Henning Steinfeld" Some other facts from this study: Animal agriculture is taking up 70% of ALL agricultural land on Earth. Livestock contribution accounts for 18% of the global warming effect. 8% of global water human use is for animal agriculture. WATER POLLUTION - In the US, livestock is responsible for an estimated 55% of erosion, 37% of pesticides applied, 50% of antibiotics consumed, 32% of the nitrogen load and 33% of the phosphorous load into freshwater resources. this is a very long study so to save you some time you can read from page 271 where the main facts and info are summarised. But this really is a great in-depth study if you would like an intellectual read. Separate study here: In a study that compared cancer risk between meat eaters, fish eaters, vegetarians, and vegans, vegans were shown to have a 19% reduced risk across all cancers compared to meat eaters (The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Volume 100, Issue suppl_1, July 2014, Pages 378S-385S) Separate study: Health might not be the only benefit of a purely plant-based diet, a study conducted by Michael B. Eisen and Patrick O. Brown suggested that rapid phaseout of animal agriculture can potentially stabilize greenhouse gas emissions for the next 30 years and offset 68 percent of CO2 emissions this century. People have to open their mind in general to cause and effect, the answer cannot be, animals eat grass and we eat them. You have first to have hugely vast areas for cattle to graze, they do not just feed on grass, grass is 50% of their diet, and the other is grain such as corn, wheat, barley etc. So now you have the vast empty fields for cattle to graze. Now you have to feed the cattle. Then you have to have huge vast areas to grow food specifically for cattle. You have to provide huge amounts of water for the animals. You have to use pesticides to grow the cattle food, and you also need to use all kinds of steroids and antibiotics to prevent disease and promote unhealthy growth. You have animal waste, which is huge compared to humans. You have the pollution in the area where they do graze. And this is also a huge massive important factor that I became aware of when I was studying in my masters, the areas that are used for growing crops are such delicate areas, the soil pH etc, has to be correct for plants to grow effectively and beneficially. The space that cattle graze on and take up, cannot be used to then grow crops, this land is considered to be unusable. This is why you see so many empty fields. I can link many more, but I don't have the time right now to add more just for KZbin haha Last edit just for fun and my last eye-opener on this comment section: Two-thirds of the world's crops that are grown, specifically go to feed animals (in animal agriculture). This is also from the study linked (page 271)- Animal agriculture contributes globally to only 17% of the daily intake of calories. This means Two-thirds of crops grown and Two-thirds of the world's agricultural land is used to support 17% of the daily calories of humans. The other One-Third supports the other 83% of calorie intake of humans. Imagine what could be done without all this land and resource to support the 17%

[@Kubilay3502]

What a bunch of bogus, Just because meat eaters in the UK are more likely to get cancer doesn't mean it's meat related, vegans tend to be young (average age in the UK is 43) meat eaters would therefore be more near/maybe even above that average age, Where's vegans and vegetarian demographic might be on average 30. People tend to develop cancer later in live. Furthermore how come meat eating societies like the amish/middle easterners (who are also alot more physically fit) have lower cancer rates then ALL of these demographics in the UK? None of your conclusions are fact based.

[@ryanhulse3791]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠ Okay someone who hasn’t done research papers before ^^ I should mention just for you that this study was done on the same age group over the same amount of time and found that the risk of cancer was the above mentioned. And yes that’s one of the many factors in these things… People who are vegan may live healthier lifestyles too so that could be a factor. But the underlying evidence suggests that in general, people who eat meat have a much higher risk of cancer. Now if you’re saying all vegans naturally live a healthier lifestyle, fair enough. Then your point should headline that “being vegan leads to a healthier lifestyle” Either way, the point stands. Watching what you eat and how you live does goes hand in hand, so educating the population of this would as the evidence suggest, bring cancer rates down by half ~ there or there about. I will actually find the papers for you to read and link it later, be sure to check it! And can I just add this - the meat isn’t inherently bad, it’s what it added to it during factory farming and the agriculture process that makes it bad. They use all sorts of steroids, bleach, antibacterial products, chemicals and hormones to make it what it is

[@CoolestGuyInTheRoom]

To Tristan's point. Men eat steak. End of story.

[@ryanhulse3791]

@@CoolestGuyInTheRoom Fair enough, unlike a lot of people I’m not telling anyone to go vegan or vegetarian, eat meat or whatever, eat what you want. I’m simply just interested on what food does to your body! And presenting current research, do what you like with it

[@Kubilay3502]

@@ryanhulse3791 if that's the case you could post the name of the study with the authors, safer than links (yt deleted those sometimes) and we could check out said study for ourselves to confirm if its true.

[@Stefania.Ferrario]

Wow Tristan was hard to listen to, well done Joey for being so patient with someone so intolerable!

[@jenharder353]

Kudos to you Joey for staying calm and level headed!!!

[@Jarredpearman]

To be fair, Tristan Tate is about the best you can expect from someone who draws the line at speciesism. He is super simplistic at the core. He seemed honest and well-spoken in his thoughts. Here are some of my observations: 1) His values and morality are based first and foremost on speciesism: survival of the species, superiority of the species, everything else is secondary. He is basically correct in that all species are essentially like this. The variation lies in the degree to which individuals intrude or feel justified to intrude on the sovereignty of other species. Tate just gives little shit about anything past humans. This is just a very base level, innate even, really not much different than the average person, and Joey is of strong character to aim higher. It takes a higher level of eithics/morals to move beyond basic speciesism. The speciesist, lacking any further rationale, will simply consider non-humans to be objects at their core. If I were to use a term to decribe levels of speciesism, I might define primary speciesism as the awareness and self-preservation instincts of a species, while secondary speciesism as the political/moral/ethical methods of dealing with other species or the seeming lack there-of. 2) He uses religious dogma as the philosophy to help define his brand of speciesism: "made in the image of god', biblical references to which animals should or shouldn't be eaten and how. In the end the "made in the image of god" claim is simply self-righteous bold-faced speciesism with an appeal to authority fallacy behind it. The biblical references to which and how to exploit animals shouldn't be construed as anything other than nutritional, political, and economical advice of the time, and essentially representative of the authors' opinions. People have the right to believe that the bible is anything other than a well-written compilation of tales, ideas, and ethics from an educated selection of human beings depicting a rather concentrated geographical area from a time period unspecified and ending just over 2000 years ago. I do not; I believe it is simply a collection of wisdom and practical advice that is always subject to interpretation and never intended to be a functional handbook for living in the year 2023. 3) He is essentially utilitarian and very much like the Peter Singer you saw in the interview a few days ago. He is impressed with humanity reaching such high levels of population because of ingenuity, the availability of steak and chicken around the world, etc. Yes humans have shown to be able to eat just about anything and live for some years and yes some of these items are available around the world. This alludes to the notion that they were necessary in reaching the end goal of survival and or large populations being fed and healthy. The video didn't really get into any health aspects that I saw (still need to watch to see what parts I missed) The video barely touched on environmental anything as well. These are practical utilitarian concepts that even people who disregard the sovereignty or importance of other species' lives could use as a metric in making their own choices. 4) There is still a large power in running with a stream rather than against it, and it is clear that a large number of people already share the same ideas that Tristan Tate does here so there is a certain comfort that comes in hiding in the crowd. You are not overtly saying anything novel by doing so, and it doesn't feel threatening to people by offering them unknowns. It is a social skill, but not really making any progress. Lemings will fall off the cliff together, while getting along fabulously. It takes zero effort for Tristan Tate to stand with the masses. It takes large effort for Joey Carbstrong to stand and bring awareness about the animal welfare, environmental issues, and health issues. 5) Tate operates to a large degree on image. He is a personality that is a forward thinking aware dominant male. I think it is genuinely fair of him to reflect on the idea of man-hood not being linked to what types of food people choose, while at the same time burying himself deep into the traditional dogma and image of man dominating other species leading to a conceptual ideal of masculinity. He can remain intellectually aware of the separation of the humanity or manhood from the acts, yet I feel he is still subject to playing the game socially to maintain status. All in all, it is still a step in the right direction that he is at least more aware than the average person of some of the issues you could bring to him or his audience. He is a bright guy, with a reasoning mind and awareness. And yet he is really not much different than your average person in any of these views on animals. Outside of practical utilitarianism, I feel like people exploit animals because deep down inside they don't know how not to, and get a wee bit of a power trip (highlander style) in doing so. Joey, I applaud the awareness you bring to these issues, sir. Well done.

[@avenginglettuce]

Excellent analysis sir.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

He has no values and morality. What serves him is what's right.

[@tinymcgoo1195]

One does not need to be religious to believe animals are not moral agents, do not participate in a moral contract with humans and should not be afforded moral rights. You do not need to be religious to believe that what one person sees as suffering is not what another person sees. You especially do not need to be religious to accept that death is the ultimate end to any supposed suffering and once an animal (humans included) die, they cease to care (if they had such capacity) about anything including what their life was like. I see no issue with speciesism. When any animal besides human beings get on one of these message boards and present their argument, then I would have to re-evaluate human's place in the animal kingdom.

[@tinymcgoo1195]

@@ASMRyouVEGANyet What a silly claim to make. He values lots of things. Your disapproval of his values does not negate them.

[@Jarredpearman]

@@ASMRyouVEGANyet He has them, just doesn't extend them to animals, for his own personal benefits. His level isn't much different than most meat eaters, they apply their own moral compass to dealings with people, and turn it off selectively and largely for non-people. Base-level. It's survival level, lowest common denominator.

[@arefrigerator396]

Tristan Tate can't even figure out which accent he wants to use.

[@crazydolphin33]

He emulates Mr. Calvert from the movie Titanic lol

[@DarthMarr2009]

@@crazydolphin33 💀

[@summerlauren1051]

You approached him well Joey, thank you for your work

[@beccaleigh7744]

I'm 5 seconds in. The opening frame was Tate staring at a cigar. I'm preemptively exhausted by an argument I haven't even heard yet. Time to pour a drink.

[@northerncoloradotransparen1454]

The reality is too many people do not care enough about their own persona health it is highly unlikely they will care about the health of other beings and the planet.

[@srikrishnajay]

🚬🚬🚬🚬 Evidently Tristan doesn't care about his own health, what makes us think he cares for other sentient beings that he consider them food 🍖 🍹🍸 🍺

[@northerncoloradotransparen1454]

@@srikrishnajay he does not. Had some clown tell me we have to eat meat for survival. Had another doctor tell me this as well. I ask him why he had such a big belly. His claim is lack of exercise and age. Commonly referred to as brainwashed or brainless for some!

[@bauabh]

Lol this Tristan guy looks like a psychopath trying to be cool. Good job Joey

[@hazelredmond104]

I agree... "cool" this creepy human isn't. He's just a very ugly person. He is devoid of compassion. He's digging his own downfall. Leave him to it.🙏🙏

[@flynnc-m560]

Well done Joey, you may not have convinced Tristian (at least not now). However, you may have planted seeds for Tate viewers to ponder. As a vegan who I feel does not usually relate to other vegans (other than moral and environmental reasons obviously), I feel this could be the beginning of opening veganism to those who may have previously outright brushed it aside.

[@lostlost5231]

I don't man where you grew up in dude but most of the second world and third world countries like the one I live in the chickens are killed infront of us(it's for us to make sure the Chicken is healthy) so yah , it doesn't bother me or my friends or anyone I've met I've asked this to everyone cause I made a project abt it nobody give a single flip , so yah gonna eat meat all day like my ancestors did

[@Martin-mi1oj]

No. Tristan’s viewers agree with his reasoning. I also completely and utterly agree with Tristan’s reasoning. I don’t get why anyone would choose to have yours and Joey’s current worldview. It must be hella frustrating. The thing is, there are millions of people who are aware of where their food comes from. And we just don’t care. It’s just cows, pigs, chickens & other cattle.

[@JustMyOpinion974]

Good job joey. He is not in a position to chabge his opinions, he is a prisoner of his facade.

[@Ghosty716]

So is everyone who doesn't eat grass a prisoner of a facade?

[@UltraEgoMc]

So anyone who doesn’t concede to a vegan’s arguments are putting up a facade?

[@ruthietherainbowroo7432]

Omg these 2 comments. Wake up. His facade creates his brand which is his money and his ego

[@sprocketmachine4107]

A lot of vegans seemed disappointed with your chilled out approach with Tate. I think it was good to sit back and reveal his mad reasoning to all his fans. Surely would have planted a few seeds. He has a delicate ego so if you went too hard, I think he would have seriously derailed and gone down the "vegans are too self righteous" route. He was throwing out all the classic "thos" so I dont think you could have got further than you did.

[@JB.zero.zero.1]

Yep. Next, we need Vegan Gains to debate him - that would be fun times.

[@sprocketmachine4107]

@@JB.zero.zero.1 that would be interesting. Also Perspective Philosophy to tackle the Christian side of it.

[@samdaniels2]

With all due respect but that sounds like a huge cope. His performance was awful, and by sugarcoating it you’re not doing anyone any service. Otherwise how can anyone learn to improve?

[@jasebaz9941]

What did you expect him to do? Sit there and get angry? They're 2 grown ass men, I'd expect nothing less than a civil discussion on both sides...

[@Martin-mi1oj]

Nah, I actually agree with all Tristan’ reasoning.

[@aymanouladaouad4920]

Well, Tristan is not the real man I used to think he is. Compassion and the will to protect the innocent and vulnerable is a basic component of masculinity. Not giving a damn about the unspeakable horrors that innocent and sensitive animals are going through, is not a real men thing.

[@aymanouladaouad4920]

Nor smart people at all.

[@ASMRyouVEGANyet]

He's the epitome of toxic masculinity, ego trip, hardened heart men. He is what is wrong with the world. This "might makes right" thinking is why we're always angry and fighting. Idk how anyone follows these "men". They are insecure boys.

[@bdarecords_]

@@aymanouladaouad4920 You used to think that the tate-brothers were somehow respectable, compassionate and such? No offense but if that is truly the case, then you are nowhere near the end of your journey of finding truth or logical consistency/morals, even if you already call yourself vegan.

[@aymanouladaouad4920]

@@bdarecords_ No one ends that journey. By the way, I still respect the work ethic and winning mindset of these brothers

[@joopdaloop5840]

@@bdarecords_wow calm down! no need to go on the attack. It’s possible to agree with someone on just some issues, don’t see how that makes someone a vegan or not

[@tigerwolf2243]

A king has dominion over his subjects, that doesn't mean he gets to torture them for his own benefit. That's the analogy a friend of mine who's into theology makes; dominion doesn't mean anything goes. We're stewards. He should've also dug down on what "made in the image of god" even means. His justifications are entirely religious, and they've got to be confronted.

[@user-vy5xu2vu7u]

We've been eating meat for millions of years. Joey is just going on moral because its wrong to kill as we have options witch I some what get but its not just down to taste eating meat we have a genetic appetite for it. The entire human race won't go all together on a plant based diet believe it or not its not possible. I do respect what joey is doing though he stands by his convictions

[@smilyguleria5299]

Joey is so compassionate

[@owencampbell7956]

How? Because he doesn’t abuse animals?

[@தமிழோன்]

@@owencampbell7956 yeah... How do you measure someone's compassion?

[@owencampbell7956]

@@தமிழோன் would you consider someone compassionate for not abusing kids? Veganism isn’t compassionate it should just be the moral baseline

[@தமிழோன்]

@@owencampbell7956 You only show compassion to those who are suffering. Kids generally are treated with dignity by the adults. They don’t go through the same amount of suffering as the animals do on a daily basis. In addition to that, the kids’ rights are internationally protected. If someone hurts a child, we know for sure that they will definitely be punished by the government. Now let’s think why would someone go vegan. It’s only when they feel the agony of the animals . That feeling is called compassion.

[@jasebaz9941]

No he isn't, the guy's psychotic 😂😂

[@vicki9176]

Somehow after listening to this I find it really easy to believe that all the charges against the Tates are totally substantiated. You can't really get someone to care about animals when they don't even care about people around them. Can't believe these people actually have such a big following.

[@childrenoftheblacksun]

Wow, I think the charges against all vegans for eating innocent plant life deserves the death penalty

[@adrieliel9105]

​@PsiloGamingdo you even watch the video? he dont care in context to the animals who were bred to feed people, well knowing you guys who view chickens the same as human life it probably seems evil

[@el29]

You are beyond stupid, what can i say. Proably a female under 15-17 years old also. Lets hope youre intellect grows in the future.

[@Brukner841]

@@childrenoftheblacksun we have to eat plants, but we do not have to eat animals, if you used your brain you wouldn't sound so dumb. The black sun, that's a fascinating concept, you should apply the thinking you put into the occult here as well.

[@michaelreid6355]

Well done Joey. You can not reason with people like this. Absolute sociopath

[@ServusCrux]

I love rare steaks

[@michaelreid6355]

@@ServusCrux ok, and you’re telling me because???

[@ServusCrux]

@@michaelreid6355 simply trying to upset you by the fact that myself, and most meat eaters, know that animals are killed for our nutrients, i think by your logic, that would mean humans, and much of life on earth consume the flesh of another animal without a second thought, because it sustains our lives. Yourself and other vegans are overly emotional pathetic individuals

[@henriqueneves_93]

Tristan "I don't care about animals" argument sounds like a teenager. No mature adult would act like that concerning this subject.

[@iiqspat2629]

Tristan tate’s a hero - standing up for meat eaters

[@willbyrob6582]

Do you believe it is ethically acceptable to kill an animal for food but not a human? If so, what ethical difference between the two, in your view, would make it okay to kill one for food but not the other?

[@aynakoitzjose]

it's tough when someone just doesn't care. but just cuz he doesn't care, it definitely doesn't mean it makes him right.

[@YRS24]

This

[@vendysmith4886]

I hear this a lot from people around me. They don't care enough to change their lifestyle. It's sad and it's hard to argue against it.

[@underground5220]

​@@vendysmith4886Humans are biologically omnivorous. Changing your lifestyle is a good idea, if it's unhealthy. Cleanest water source you can get, high quality food: meat, organs, fruit, tubers, few vegetables. Physical activity, stimulating the brain, positive friendship circle, spending time in nature, watching sunsets...

[@nielss5945]

Ofcourse not. If you don't care about climate change, that doesn't mean destroying the planet is right. Anyone who believes that "I don't care." is an argument, is literally a moron. And there alot of people who think this is an argument after reading the comments everywhere.

[@wolfhugs2221]

Sociopath or psychopath. About 10% of people have the traits and he's definitely one of them.

[@Johny40Se7en]

May find that there's a much higher percentage of Humans who have sociopathic issues nowadays. It's supposedly sky rocketed in recent years. I wonder why... 😐🙄 The second part I'm inclined to agree with. After all, when the animal farming industry rams so much propaganda down peoples' throats daily, people sort of become desensitised to such cruelties. Then it's a lot harder for people to go against it, even if they see the truth. Active Denial System 😵‍💫🥴

[@wolfhugs2221]

@@Johny40Se7en I suspect you're correct re numbers. It takes a while for the statisticians to catch up and the 10% figure is about 15 years old now. I also agree re sensitivity for sociopaths, but psychopathy is a condition people are born with. I don't know what this Tate is, aside from clearly narcissistic. He's a manipulator for sure. If his audience were against eating meat, he would be too. I don't believe he has any faith at all, that's a convenient excuse for dismissing the lives of animals. I'd go so far as to say a dangerous individual to have power over anyone else.

[@Noknes]

He definetly is not either of those which is clear to see if you watched the entire interview. He just values the life of a human over animals which is completely understandable.

[@wolfhugs2221]

@@Noknes I've watched the whole thing. He's definitely one or the other. I'd not heard of him before this and would need to see a lot more to make a determination, but he's clearly displaying traits that point to a disorder, of which one of the two above are most likely.

[@Noknes]

@@wolfhugs2221 Give me an example of how he lacks empathy... There is nothing wrong with valueing the life of a human over animals and killing animals to fulfill the needs of the human species

[@GabyZacara]

You did so awesome Joey!! Love you keep shining your wonderful light you have assisted me so much on my journey 🥰🙏💚💚💚

[@Mrhaydentv]

I was vegan for 1 year. Worst year ever (yes I was eating a ‘good’ vegan diet) my mental health suffered, I was weak mentally and physically. Never again. Slaughter houses are a humane way to kill animals compared to them getting eaten alive in the wild!

[@charlesgitau9519]

This vegan lifestyle is all propaganda to draw attention I'm glad tate destroyed this clown😂

[@chimp09]

How do you think it is possible to eat a 'good' vegan diet and still suffer bad consequences because of the diet? The only possibility of suffering in any way through your diet is if you either don't get enough of any essential nutrient or you get too much of anything bad. if either of those were true, you did not eat a 'good' vegan diet.

[@davidformosa7626]

Tristan......."Piranhas tho........I'm basically a piranha and that's what defines my morality because you know, the piranha has a brain the size of a pea and so do I - we are basically at the same stage of evolution" 😂😂😂😂"Did I mention that animal cruelty and torture is ok because my I think my shoes are "cooler" than yours"?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@ricardoneves7545]

To me what is scary is that there are people that after seeing this, still support him and agree with him

[@liu8931]

i still support tate

[@ricardoneves7545]

@@liu8931 Ok, i can't do nothing about it.

[@NotiAmSomebody]

Because he is right and why feel sorry for animals and dogs being skinned alive it’s karma because dogs and other animals would kill you also but the only reason dogs don’t attack u is because they’re much smaller but it doesn’t mean they don’t want to bite or kill u

[@ARKSURVIVOR879]

​@@NotiAmSomebodyoh yeah, a little chicken would kill you. Look, if you made a cow or pig REALLY angry MAYBE, just MAYBE they would try to kill you. But a fucking chicken? And a fish? Bro how weak are you?😂

[@ARKSURVIVOR879]

​@@NotiAmSomebodyand you can run from pigs and cows. Not so much dogs but why would a dog attack you? Lemme guess, did you try killing the dog again Timmy?

[@VJania]

'I don't care' - the ultimate cop out. When you have exhausted all possible come backs. This is gold. Thanks Joey.

[@maumiceli]

You're awesome, Joey! Keep it up 🙌🏼 💪🏼 🌱 🌏

[@jjmendoza2007]

This guy doesn't care about humans or animals, all he care is that he gets want he want no matter who suffers.. Animals are like kids they are innocent and the humans that hurt them are the Devil..

[@Earths_Champion]

I totally disagree with you but to each their own

[@donolonisa5787]

Say's a Herbivore

[@JannetLiebe-km5gh]

@jjmendoza2007 I totally agree with you.👍

[@aid4026]

Sorry you had to go through that joey! It’s hard to debate someone who agreement is just “I don’t care” and also not willing to be open to change

[@saralightbourne]

i didn't see joey's will to change either. and "i don't care" wasn't the only "argument". everyone hears what they want to hear. "debating" these things isn't gonna change anything, it's in fact just embarrassing

[@SluggaMusta]

What do you mean sorry you had to go through that Joey??? He literally invited Tristan out for a meal oh smfh 🤦‍♂️

[@AaronVets]

@@saralightbourne 🤡

[@AaronVets]

@@SluggaMusta If you think Joey has fun debating morally bankrupt people like Tate you are delusional. I believe Joey is being overtly nice these days because he doesn’t want to feed into the “angry vegan” stereotype...also you might catch more flies with honey over vinegar.

[@SluggaMusta]

@@AaronVets I never said any of that. Back to the point I said and not that load of nonsense you just spat. At the end Joey clearly invited him out for a meal but you think whatever goes off in your toaster head. Anyway got to go to sleep got things to do in my life and you only deserve so much of my time exactly how you could say I don’t deserve so much of your time so take care

[@GG-kp4gy]

It is nice to see two mighty minds clashing in such a calm manner. Well done to both of you for presnting an interesting discussion.