When teenagers run virtual democracies

[@Trolligarch]

Many of you asked what a "Discord democracy" even is in the Averra Dossier video. I previously mentioned that an introduction to it could warrant a video in its own right. Well, here is that video-the (spiritual) Part 0 of the Averra Dossier! Thank you once again to all of my subscribers and Patreon donors for your continued support :)

[@Dovahkiine]

This comment section is now under the control of SimDemocracy and the SDAF.

[@charlieheadlam8771]

So they did Britain! A dormant supervisor (king), which inaugurates every prime minister, and a democratic system also. Very cool!

[@gavinsmith9871]

I can't wait for the second Averra episode.

[@ServantoftheDivine1701]

Why not mention Political Simulation United States History Season 1 (and now 2) :wa: :trollsome:

[@shekuskhan6261]

There's a game called Deep Space Airships that I think you might be interested in. It has a unique political environment and involves geopolitics, war, paranoia and toxicity. Please look into it and maybe make a video on it.

[@SuperRainbol]

The main problem I see in this experiments is that often they have democracy for democracy sake, not as a way to govern resources and the interests of economical agents. So what can you do in this type of situation other than try to fuck with it?

[@cupboard8476]

I’d say it might actually make sense in the Minecraft situation as there are resources to govern. However Reddit and Discord democracies really have no reason to exist and are really quite boring without some sort of wannabe dictator.

[@StuffandThings_]

@cupboard8476 Yeah _some_ Minecraft experiments with democracy sorta work out (with the obvious issues of people still trying to fuck with it cause its Minecraft and people are there to have fun, not make a long term stable system) but generally they don't run long enough to see the long term outcome. Plus, Minecraft resources are laughably easy to manage. I've wanted to see someone try a civilization experiment in Vintage Story (much more realistic and waaaay harder to manage survival that encourages specialization of labor, trade, and careful resource management) that lasts for months to years to see how people react to that.

[@icecold1805]

I think it is a great experiment that way. LIke playing a game where you can be a monster without any moral concern cuz it's just a game. Here, you aren't putting any real economies at risk, so let's play around with how many ways can democracy go down the drain. It could be an interesting thought experiment for students and experts in the topic to learn how to better defend democracy from these flaws.

[@KnoxEmDown]

@@StuffandThings_ Here's a terrifying truth for ya bud: People mess with real governments and systems for shins and giggles, too. Powerful people, it's a game to them that they play with each other. It's a very high stakes games that they're addicted to, the same way a gambling addict is addicted to poker or slots.

[@tbotalpha8133]

@@StuffandThings_ The central problem with any attempt to replicate Earthly social systems in virtual spaces is security. In our real world, people are always present to defend people's property and rights. Either the victims themselves, or individuals invested with the legal authority to act in defence of the community. And the perpetrators are always present in the world, at risk of being located and punished for their actions. This presents a significant barrier to any attempt at thievery or violence, especially by outsiders entering a community. There is a good chance they will be repulsed, captured or killed if they try. And even if they escape afterwards, news of their actions will spread, and dire consequences may catch up with them. But in virtual spaces, players have to log off and do things in the real-world. Leaving their avatars either unresponsive or absent entirely. So they can't be present at all times, to defend themselves or their property. Other players could provide defence on their behalf, but they also need to log off from time to time. So to provide 24/7 defence, you would need a legion of players willing to perform regular and consistent shifts as security guards. Needless to say, this never happens. Leaving player's avatars and property undefended for long periods of time. Meanwhile, these kinds of anarchic, laissez-faire social experiments inevitably attract bad actors. People who want to take advantage of a lack of rules or moderation, to do things they would be punished for elsewhere. People who want to get their kicks being barbarian raiders, preying on other players. Or who just want to ruin other people's fun, destroying their property and killing their avatars like a bully kicking over sandcastles. And in these virtual experiments, all these people find ample opportunity to indulge in their bad behaviour. They inevitably destroy anything the sincere actors try to build, and devolve the system into transient clans of warlords, squabbling in a crab bucket. I have some ideas for how this could be addressed, but this comment is long enough as-is.

[@amberhide04]

it's honestly pretty funny, it's no wonder things turn out like that, once you replicate the existing structures of power, people will inevitably replicate it's flaws.

[@j0ooo]

and or sad

[@iratepirate3896]

Yep. Bolshevik revolution in a nutshell

[@zeevdrifter2707]

All systems are subject to the human condition.

[@NothingXemnas]

​@@zeevdrifter2707 Which is why I am waiting for something so alien to our understanding that it might just work. Extraterrestrial leaders, AI overlords... Something beyond our comprehension might be our only salvation. If not that, then a new system, one we don't have or don't know, yet. The entire "capitalism vs socialism" thing is bs, and anarchy being the third option is equally ass...

[@bored_person]

​@@NothingXemnasoh here we go with the "enlightened" centrism

[@navisochi]

if you want to see an entire world ran by teenagers-young adults, doing several democracies at once, look into minecraft fantasy roleplay servers. very fascinating rabbit hole

[@97nightynite]

your comment isn't clear enough. do tell us more of what makes that fascinating. and what roleplay servers would you recommend we begin with. it sounds as though you care deeply for this subject. i'm curious. and i think i might be in love with you but i haven't been outside for a month (long covid) so i'm not sure i can think straight right now (not that i ever have though amiright fellas) but that's okay i don't even know your gender (and i refuse to assume) so maybe i am straight thinking after all of this is said and done (i'll be reporting your account for racial hate and bigotry). you won't see me again but i will always remember you youtube user navisochi. the beautiful and vapid stare of your delicate cat face staring at the computer, your elegant (and probably expensive too) headphones....this is how i will always regard you. young and carefree. innocent. always offering careful insight and new avenues of thought. i hope you aren't too distracted to respond to me because of your keen interest in entire worlds ran by teenagers-young adults doing several democracies at once. study is a timeless virtue but it's all the more powerful when we have the chance to take a break here and there. have you read the new ACOTAR? it was shit.

[@SubayAdamm2]

stoneworks, lmfao

[@ceefyre_]

@@SubayAdamm2do u play on sw?

[@samuelwilson6795]

Dude the youngest founding father was like 18, most of those dudes where in there early early 20s. It's not that far fetched

[@thefacethatstares]

CivMC is the current prime example of this although it is more a military industrial complex simulator than fantasy roleplay

[@TheGIGACapitalist]

>A Reddit democracy (Actually an autocracy that does nothing productive in a space that doesn't matter) Yeah sounds about right, thanks reddit

[@chebic5095]

To be fair an autocracy can technically be a democracy. Its just that having so much power delegated to one person effectively guarantees the end of democracy.

[@ЯрославЛ-ф1ж]

"Autocracy" implies that there is enough individuality for one person to dictate to others. I would call it a hivemind instead as their thoughts are already identical.

[@xhantTheFirst]

@@chebic5095 An autocracy in a space that has only 1 member is a democracy

[@N0sf3r4tuR1s3n]

And to the surprise of no one whatsoever, the Reddit democracy experiment became a complete dumpster fire.

[@AugustRx]

Aren't you entertained?

[@shtuffs]

It's kind of ridiculous that they needed a whopping 91% supermajority to recall a representative. What's the point of such an undemocratic threshold?

[@Ididntchoosethisname]

I wonder who wrote in that sort of unachievably high threshold...

[@shtuffs]

@@Ididntchoosethisname I'm assuming it was an oversight from when the constitution was first written

[@EzKay_PX]

Exactly! That seems like they just thought "if someone is actually deserving of this then it will be 100% against them, people arent taht dumb" And well...

[@pinkerproductions7420]

Myth of the rational voter

[@joya8292]

A Morgna wes core.

[@meol0390]

I spit out my coffee when I saw myself being featured in a youtube video. I'm "Jack Ryan", chief justice of We the people at the time lmao

[@unskilledkeks501]

Always fun to see your name in stuff like this I even found myself from years back in here!

[@alex-brs]

I laughed when I saw my name in that case, LOL

[@claudeyaz]

Were people intentionally just trolling or did the systems naturally devolve

[@JBRAI22]

Jack Ryan the Tom Clancy character?

[@meol0390]

@@claudeyazso WTP would have, in NationStates terms, been "widely abused" and "corrupted" in both civil rights and political freedom. Yes there were people who just randomly pinged everyone for fun. Why? Idk 4 years later. For some reason someone challenged the result, the Anti Spam Act, tho I believe a long time after the issue of spam pinging resolved itself. And for some reason I struck it down. Tho idk maybe it was as a meme I did that. I have no idea. I didn't even remember this thing until I saw it lol

[@Hakasedess]

So what I'm getting from this is that the habbo democracy RP had a system where, in order to remove a sexual predator on the grounds of soliciting and obtaining CP, they had to themselves violate multiple laws, national and international, pertaining to the distribution of that CP

[@AnonTDegenerate]

@@SGresponse you enjoyed that line a lot huh?

[@bislama1]

makes me wonder if there were any dudes who would make it up just to get the cp

[@MrGriefCreep]

​​@@SGresponse have you considered that being a member of an echo chamber of alliterative pedophiles has changed what you consider to be the normal response to pedophilia? Because yeah, people universally hate those who prey on the defenceless.

[@furgiethecat.]

@@SGresponse you could've just said you liked minors and it would've saved a whole lot of time. creep.

[@halogeek3784]

@@SGresponse Ain't no way you're defending CP

[@Traveler_202]

Democracy craft is crazy, who knew you could just say “no thanks” to the Supreme Court.

[@Psytinker]

The US is the only example in history, where "separation of powers" did not result in a coup of one branch (Executive, Legislative, Judicial) against the other. That we're publicly aware of and can prove, anyway.

[@benkibobs1893]

That neat little trick worked a few times in our country.

[@Eliastion]

@@Psytinker What you say is just not true... That being said, saying "no thanks" to the Supreme Court is perfectly possible in the real world and not just in theory - things like these do happen in the real world. Laws are, after all, just words - they have as much power as people are willing to give them. And it can very well happen that - for various reasons - legitimacy of one branch and its ability to exercise its powers will be put into question, creating a split in the system.

[@daerok8913]

​@@Psytinkerno its not

[@thegoosh6469]

​@@Eliastion Exactly. You can find examples of this right in US history. Andrew Jackson famously ignored a Supreme Court ruling on the rights of the Cherokee nation so that he could persecute them further. Everyone learns this in history class, it's the lead-up to the Trail of Tears

[@crimsonDestroyer]

Noticing at the very start of the video that the "SimDemocracy Constitution" post is being made by a now-deleted account sure is an omen if I ever saw one.

[@Watcher1105]

Oh I’m pretty sure that was written by Gage, who got caught up in a controversy when he tried to make himself president by impersonating a new member named Jackie. Jackie was always Gage, it went on for months. We had to clear the discord and made a new one to plan a coup. We eventually took it back after a while. “The Jackie” crisis was probably peak Simdemocracy lmao

[@scvboy1]

I noticed that too lmao

[@sat-erise]

I love that all of these come down to "The closer an Empire to its end, the crazier its laws." Absolutely magnificent video.

[@marshmallowcat1889]

"Kids these days are always on their damn phones" Kids on their phones:

[@max7971]

You playing Fortnite on your phone is more beneficial to society, than you unironically larping on reddit.

[@YawndereXO]

@@max7971Fortnite perpetuates literally no benefits to society, larping at least gives teenagers something to look back on. I don’t think larping is more productive than actually reading about history, but it sure as hell is more fun to some people I like the game Fortnite for being a cool ass game that’s a fever dream when you think about it, but I really hate the work culture in epic games. super disgusting

[@UnderMakerGaming]

@@YawndereXO Both of y'all are yapping

[@silver1340]

@@YawndereXO I'd argue it gives practical experience to work on rhetoric, as that's the most important skill for politicians or any position of leadership, even in companies nowadays.

[@marshmallowcat1889]

*How* are you arguing under my absolute nothing meme comment

[@unktheunk1428]

political instability as national mythos is such a terrifyingly powerful concept edit: ave Kartek

[@gavros9636]

Welcome to France!

[@IowanMatthew683]

@@gavros9636 I was literally about to say this. You think French politics nowadays are bad, just go back a hundred years ago to the Third French Republic, which was the constitutional regime that ruled France from 1871 to 1940. Governments literally collapsed an average of twice a year during that time period!

[@unktheunk1428]

at this point i'm tempted to say that the US constitution is the only type of constitution that people will actually respect. the document was never meant to last and was a kluged together pile of garbage at the time that people just kept building on. if you want your system of government to last, you gotta build the dysfunction into the legal system directly

[@ServantoftheDivine1701]

Sounds like PSUSH

[@Mr_Blah]

KARTEK MENTIONED‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

[@lamename2010]

"Owner" being able to overrule the ruling cabinett is just modern-day constitutional monarchy :D

[@Wreniffer]

why does australia still have a royal family lol

[@haruhisuzumiya6650]

​@Wrenifferbecause the alternative of a presidential republic is a great deterrence

[@papierbak]

The constitutional part of constitutional monarchy says that the monarch has no real power.

[@tajemniczywasacz]

Rather absolute monarchy in it's truest form as in "the country belongs to the king" is taken quite literally

[@anderson8988]

@@papierbakI mean technically the British monarch can veto stuff but it’s still a constitutional monarchy. It’s just not done.

[@minimappering]

1:23 "a record 117 votes were cast" well... when its your first election even 1 would be a record haha

[@Off-HandedBarrel]

Not to mention it was roughly 110% of votes right out of the gate as well. Even their first ever vote was rigged.

[@ahmadfarhan1460]

ikr xD

[@AndrewFatherOfEdward]

I felt that the emphasis was on the fact that there were more votes cast than there were voters 😂😂😂

[@minimappering]

@@AndrewFatherOfEdward haha i did not catch that

[@Ten_Animatoreq]

Literally the first elections were rigged and everything made by the president would be invalid

[@lacintag5482]

A new trolligarch video in less than 4 years. Starting the year off right.

[@peckneckanimations]

Homestuck woah

[@marrowbrown]

omg

[@Vichroma]

HOMESTUCK

[@c0ldbl00d5]

So basically the whole 38:00 info about Habbo Hotel's case is: The court system is so bureaucracy-filled and complicated (in a very bad way) that the plaintiff just used law loophole just to get to the point (accuser get banned). Democracy at it's finest. Anyway, good video. Would like to translate to my language for more people to acknowledge this mastercraft.

[@PedroBentoIT]

Not before multiple people commiting the real life crimes of sharing and disseminating CSE materials mind you 😅

[@averagesnail]

i feel like in a point where something is an ACTUAL IRL criminal offense they shouldnt have to go through a fictional law system to ban someone

[@WolfRoot_02r1]

That democracycraft one was so cool. Like one letter in the constitution ending in a full take over

[@TheDolphinTuna]

I imagine that the constant coups and powergames in these democracy RP servers is caused by the fact that they’re interesting. There has to be a reason for players to stick around- either because the democracy serves a non-RP purpose or because there’s enough drama to keep things exciting.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

Truth is, most folks IRL define a "functional" government as "a government I do not need to pay even slight attention to"...

[@thefacethatstares]

this is why CivMC and civclassic before it has had such staying power, because it doesn't matter what unhinged threats you spew on discord or how hard you complain about one of your citizens being locked in the current hegemon's vault; if you don't have the military expertise or at least a motivated population that actually logs on to mine and build, all those words have zero substance. Equally if you are one of the people running the hegemon you can make pretty much anyone else stop doing something you dislike with a two word discord reply.

[@klaykid117]

Richard, the lionheart is perhaps one of the most beloved Kings, if not the most beloved King of England. He considered himself a French King who happened to have Britain as one of his personal holdings barely spoke English and ruled entirely from France.

[@FemboyHistory]

I was once elected president of one of these on discord, I was a third party candidate in a two party system and couldn’t get the senate to agree on anything that would benefit the server without being called a member of one of the two parties even when someone send child endangerment material in another server I couldn’t get him banned due to his friends controlling the senate, in the end I created a Supreme Court of the most neutral and competent members to be a neutral final check “to protect the servers democracy” I then deleted the senate and its roles and resigned leaving the server to the Supreme Court, the server started functioning after this lmao

[@laughingjack6307]

That’s awesome as hell bro lol

[@JoeSmith-qy6qo]

thank you femboyhistory

[@Kinatera.]

that sounds sick, wp

[@JNJNRobin1337]

you did a coup on that server, and you are actively amazing for that

[@tankinam]

Cincinnatus

[@thelordz33]

Funny how this was supposed to be a democracy, but with the Supervisor it's closer to a constitutional monarchy.

[@simdemocracyofficial7512]

The difference are two supervisor one on the reddit one on the discord so neither has full control

[@MentalidaddeDelfin]

Now the supervisors are very weak and the President and the Senate holds all the power

[@tryingmybest206]

constitutional monarchies can be democracies, what are you on about?

[@ThePoll321]

​@@simdemocracyofficial7512 ah like the Roman Consular Republic

[@kyleplatter8954]

>Nurembourg law “Wait, I’ve seen this one before”

[@DrippyPootis]

Ah shit here we go again...

[@bonda_racing3579]

@DrippyPootisGone full circle with this one

[@flamsey]

ExplNation please

[@AAAAAA-qs1bv]

@@flamsey See: Nuremberg Laws passed within nazi germany.

[@theholypeanut8193]

@@flamsey "The Nuremberg Laws were antisemitic and racist laws that were enacted in Nazi Germany on 15 September 1935" -Wikipedia

[@xcaedes]

This entire video is like the essence of middle-high class teenagers who have had access to video games and media since they were a kid. I find that a lot of us end up in a spot in our teenage years where we have all this advanced adult ideas, ambitions, curiosities, etc, but we don’t really have an outlet to really express them properly. A lot of people in our local environments such as school don’t really care, or seem to understand. Even now I don’t feel like I can even begin to describe what I am trying to talk about. In anycase, a lot of the same people end finding themselves in places like Minecraft Civilization events, or creating Virtual Democracies with elaborate storylines. It is our way to be heard and express.

[@gardenagnostic]

oh my god yeah! i personally find my interest solely in learning about these things but sociology is so interesting actually.

[@daanstrik4293]

I had never really thought about it, but yeah. Thats how I ended up in the sphere. Even if I never actively participated. Comments like this is why I still bother to read them.

[@zeppl1n]

cringe

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

​@@zeppl1n Why?

[@Zythryl]

@@zeppl1nsure, but cringe compared to what? Not having those ideas?

[@virastrum8276]

20:31 I never expected someone who makes videos on niche internet things to be a lawyer.

[@waengwang5313]

he has an oxford degree! (in the channel description)

[@mrMickio]

Moon channel is another KZbinr who's a lawyer tough it's part of his persona there.

[@juegobuenoyomalo9501]

Why? A lot of youtubers have real careers, I would even say most of them

[@kowaihana]

​@@juegobuenoyomalo9501because if you think of a youtuber, you'd think someone who dropped out

[@StuffandThings_]

TBH considering he's making videos on internet politics, lawyer is like the _most_ expected career path.

[@cup-noodle-love]

It makes me so happy teenagers are learning how old and rich have been gaming the system for centuries. Armed with that knowledge they will be able to fight back and build a better world for everyone... right?...... right?

[@simdemocracyofficial7512]

We need to make the internet a democracy

[@Johnheartbreaking]

Depends, if race is still a huge thing when they become the rulers, shit's gonna hit the fan

[@kowaihana]

​@@simdemocracyofficial7512sounds kinda dumb to make the internet a democracy

[@フフーガ]

Libertarianism and authoritarianism is the same Capitalism and socialism is the same The problem is inherently always demographics

[@simdemocracyofficial7512]

@ horse shoe

[@KimBaack]

Holy crap the line when "tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty" goes so hard

[@mrjoe5292]

Until you realise that plenty of people who disagree with a law or ruling will consider it tyranny. Point being I agree with the anti-fascist sentiment, but there are so many people who want to pretend they're victims of some sort of tyrannical regime that I'd be more afraid of the people who'd abuse the idea than any rightful and well considered rebellion it might inspire. How many people espouse the idea that "charity starts at home" as some sort of reason for not giving to charity?

[@unskilledkeks501]

Dovaahkin loved doing speeches like that

[@fasddfadfgasdgs]

@@mrjoe5292 its abuse of it. It's generally a greed power grab to use words like that. What you feel is tyranny probably isn't just they are using those words cause they have power behind it until they don't Its why if you are looking at current electoral systems notice how often someone cry something is evil when its just middle of the road until you get to actual war.

[@simdemocracyofficial7512]

@@unskilledkeks501he still does

[@captainriker9088]

It's a line that is attributed to Thomas Jefferson btw

[@eiran_o_ddwywent]

Welp, looks like I won't be doing any work for the next hour, the universe has decided that being productive is not for me today

[@JBeestonian]

I folded my clothes while listening to this

[@eiran_o_ddwywent]

@@JBeestonian Well good on you, I didn't

[@sus-sb9yw]

Roblox is another interesting platform for virtual governments, although there is much less democracies the diplomacy between communities can be very interesting. Some communities have purpose made games where they can wage war with one another within the constraints of a global economy and resource trade. (windward is a pretty good example although it's activity has been declining)

[@simdemocracyofficial7512]

I know where our next expansion campaign should be

[@pflh2391]

Fun facts: The US's founding fathers were mostly early adults Younger than most people perceive them to be nowadays

[@lukethekuya]

They really are ahead of their time, and always will be.

[@DefaultProphet]

Average was 44(Signers of Declaration of Independence) or 45(Signers of Constitution). Wouldn’t really call that early adults

[@NostraDavid2]

That's probably because the current USA Senate is filled with geriatrics. The average age is 64 (as of 2023)... JFC America, get your shit together.

[@Jimmy-vm5wj]

The fact that a 'President' in a polisim server was grooming and sexually harassing minors and wasn't immediately banned by the owner/staff is an absolute disgrace the fact that anyone remained on that server after staff chose to allow that and chose to let the players punish this pedophile in sim is pure and undiluted insanity.

[@eduardowalsh9418]

Just like it happends in real life : )

[@hyraemous]

More common than you think. I speak from personal experience given I played on a Minecraft server whose owner *was* that particular kind of person. Plus they were trying to make the server an actual democracy...

[@NewfieOn2Wheels]

Real life criminal behavior-which soliciting nudes from minors absolutely is, should face real life legal consequences. The user gets immediately banned, is reported to law enforcement, and any/all evidence gathered also gets forwarded to law enforcement.

[@TiberianFiend]

That just makes it an authentic model of a real-world government.

[@HALLish-jl5mo]

@@NewfieOn2Wheels Actually I’d be very hesitant in contacting the police in cases of soliciting images. Depending on jurisdiction, the victim might technically have committed a worse crime than the perpetrator. After all, they both created and distributed that material. You’d think that creating and distributing material of yourself would by okay, but in many jurisdictions it’s treated exactly the same, and you can get years in prison for victimising yourself. It was a serious problem at my school.

[@leonardorivelorivelo9253]

I really liked this video for its analysis of how human power dynamics always end up doing the same things. Every law, no, every word can have its meaning changed and voided by people trying to exploit the system and that will always happen as long as theres more than 2 people obeying the law

[@HM-rz8nv]

do you realize you are comparing teenage brainfarts to real world political dynamics? These systems are horrendously thought out, real world systems of all flavors have much a wide variety of safe guards against vague interpretations being used on a whim to subvert a political order. It's not smart to compare these silly teenage systems to real world politics.

[@TheRealNoll]

Fantastic video. The guy at 47:23 is pretty cool, you should include him more

[@placenamehere953]

What's your name on discord?

[@kams8759]

truth

[@someone41517]

Pipe down lil bro, ur not him

[@breadproductionsupervisor9024]

viktor tsoi?

[@jakov1867]

I really love your video, doing investigation journalism on video games/online communities is an underrated/undermade content ! Thanks for giving us this great video as a gift for new year !

[@Strandedpasta]

Honestly I was deep into this kind of stuff for the longest time. It was the only thing that gave me a sense of community at the time and made me learn how politics is done. I still crave for those days, but I feel like now I'll never achieve democracy that I always craved. Laws are meant to be broken, as people find ways around it. Government is an uphill battle between desire for power and status quo. What is a direction of a nation, especially a small one, other then total domination inside? There is just no winning with people and it makes me feel sad. That everything I wanted to try has already been tried.

[@drrocketman7794]

The best government is where people govern themselves, and, failing that, they are brought to account by their peers.

[@NothingXemnas]

​@@drrocketman7794 You are terribly naive if you think that is exactly what OP meant. People don't hold peers accountable, otherwise these structures wouldn't come to fruition. Yet, they always do. You cannot train people (not in the billions) out of their instincts, and expecting them to be even half as self-regulating is asking humans to be half as robotic. There is a reason anarchy isn't an answer either. Humans are organic flawed beings, with every right to be flawed organic animals. Any less than that is forcing humans into dictatorships. Ironic, isn't it? To reach the proper mass education for an anarchy to work, you need mass indoctrination to rewire the brain, which is dictatorial... There is no way out, brother.

[@butlazgazempropan-butan11k87]

Imo experiments like that are kinda boring. Everyone knows how democracy works and especially when someone tries to copy an existing system, it inherets its pros and cons and is just kinda nothing. Theese are not real after all, thats why we should try out diffrent things, what about trying to create a new system, customised to the enviroment its in, what about revisitng unpopular or old ideas, like i would love to see something like an electoral monarchy and stuff, not boring copy paste democracy.

[@gabrielc7861]

That's because democracy has reached it's peak of effectiveness

[@celeridad6972]

Monarchy for the win

[@a_rush]

As a former Europeian on NationStates, I did NOT expect to see our forum being used as an example. Great video!

[@H3rmon861]

This is actually the channel I always dreamed of! I love hearing about stories of wild project done in the Internet and in virtual world. There’s so many weird and interesting tales that just never get documented because people don’t think to do it. I’m so glad KZbin randomly decided to recommend me your channel

[@Jane_8319]

Oh god, the god problem is so real. When I was a kid (11-15 ish) I was sporadically involved in a lego star wars role play community on the official lego star wars gallery. The community emerged organically from collaborative story writing, and ended up with one player known as Sand as the leader in charge of negotiating rule disputes and updating the rules. Setting aside how wonky the rules and lore was, my understanding is that Sand was rather prone to favoritism in his rulings (affecting gameplay) and after a 2016 post involving a gay couple was made, Sand (who was 18) was forces to leave the gallery by his evangelical parents. Then there was chaos, and people decided to hold an election for who would be the replacement leader (“supreme leader”, as we said, in reference to Snoke). A player named Krayt won, who was more chill (and is still my friend lmao) and he ended up with a semi-official suite of advisors to help. But there was no democratic oversight, and we were on the official lego website and ultimately beholden to LEGO themselves. When the galleries became unusable we migrated to MOCpages briefly, and with that forum glitching more and more and infighting becoming more common we were all on discord by 2018. We languished trying to develop more effective economic rules and a decent democratic system of government that we (a group of teenagers known for alt accounts and political finagling) couldn’t break. We briefly ran a subreddit for a reboot of our game but by mid 2020 it lost steam, as it was basically just five of us. We’re still friends, but that entire RP was full of failed democracies and founder issues. Sand was practically a minor deity for a while; the day he left, 7/7/2016, was practically a national day of mourning for people. As the evangelicals left and more people came out, it instead became a celebration where short stories with lgbtq couples were posted (known as “raindrops day” now, for the post he left over, which was called “raindrops”). I also had a faction, the “emerald elites” which I tried to set up as a parliamentary democracy; I wrote an entire constitution and declared that I would be the court system while we could vote in political parties for the parliament who could then choose a prime minister, all in game. But not only did I want to keep power, interest was low and transferring information about military and financial power was difficult, which meant that even as other people got ahold of the parliament and ministry they did so little I effectively had to run the military as a dictatorship to ensure we could actually do things. The lore gets crazier, and we still talk and celebrate raindrops day on a new discord server, but teenage virtual democracies are crazy

[@joshuacarre06]

As someone who has been in a bunch of sim democracys a huge problem that often happens is political partys forming off of real life politics with people then just voted of their irl political side more than actions and events done in the sim democracy

[@Shotblur]

After decades of refining political parties into their most polarizing forms, I'm not surprised people just copied them at the end of the day.

[@XuoAlderwilde]

Hi :) I’m a close friend of one of the people of the Republic of Krameria, at 48:09, it’s the big picture and in 50:42, the first one. His name is Hersey. He is incredibly dedicated to Krameria. (To the point of us calling him obsessed.) In the server that we’re both from, this video has been a topic for days. None of us expected to see our virtual governments to be the focus of a video essay. -Xuo, from VirtualCongress

[@senadistik1208]

The amount of work, writing, research, visuals and everything else in your videos is severely underappreciated. Your production value should warrant millions of subscribers!

[@foxxy-3748]

I was in a Roblox democracy group called NUSA, I didn't really play Roblox or care about the group, I just found it while scrolling on Twitter one day and decided to mess around in their Discord. There was an election for president at the time, so I, of course, put my own hat in the running as the leader of the new and improved Whig Party. Long story short some kid ended up winning while I got second place, so I messaged him threatening to "reveal the dirt on him" (i had absolutely 0 dirt on him) unless he conceded the race to me. Which he did, mostly because he didn't really want to play anymore. I have never woken up with that many Discord notifications in my life. Dozens of people asking for jobs as FBI/CIA Directors, cabinet positions, even federal judges. After filling out my government I ended up getting bored and had my friends tell the server's owner that I had died from AIDS.

[@brendanwiley253]

These stories remind me of my 4 year old niece who doesn't understand yet that when playing a game, not following the rules and doing something like drawing cards until you get the one you want or picking up your piece and moving it to the end of the board and saying you win, isn't fun for the other players and actually makes it less fun for her too but she can't see that yet.

[@venmis137]

I used to partake in one of these, several years ago. It started off as a virtual democracy, which inspired other virtual democracies to be formed. Eventually they formed an "international organisation", which soon became the focus point of the entire community as it transitioned to a kind of geopolitics sim. The internal politics of each nation slowly began to die out, since the leaders were always the most active in each nation. Most server members were either completely inactive, or were citizens of about a dozen other nations. This was tolerated since there was a 10 (and later 15) non-alt non-bot member requirement to be accepted as a nation. Once a nation was accepted they got the opportunity to be placed on the map, which had gradually become the focus of the entire community. There was a divide in the community between the "RPers" who were more willing to engage in roleplay, and the "Simulationists" who wanted to make sure everything was "organic" and "true to the principles of political simulation". I was a member of the latter faction, mainly because it's more fun for me personally, though I wasn't above fabricating historical events to make my nation's lore more interesting. In one of my attempts to boost activity in my nation, I created "concentration camps" for people who didn't respond to my messages, where I would isolate them in a single channel separate from the rest of the nation (I did this because I wanted to "clean up" my nation, without reducing my member count). Some folks got mad at me for calling them concentration camps, even though the name was technically accurate. I also recall one time, when the transition to a geopol sim was more complete, the international community had agreed to vacate certain areas of the map, to allow for the creation of new nations (and thereby new active leaders). I ignored the agreement, and claimed the entire area (which was downgraded to 1/3 of the area by the Cartographer) for my colony, as I was 1) opposed to the creation of new nations (which I accused of being "ghost nations"), and 2) I was once a member of the nation which claimed that land, but which had since disbanded. It's ironic really, since my nation wasn't all that active either. I think we only had around 4 unique active members, and the vast majority of the activity came from me anyway. When I finally did get other active members, I did my best to isolate them from the rest of the community since I didn't want them to get distracted into the geopol sim. Eventually the sim evolved. We got a system of districts to replaced the adhoc cartography system we had before, where 1 district = 1 non-bot non-alt member. This worked until one guy's youtube channel blew up and he directed everyone to his nation, so we went from the biggest nation having 120 members to over a thousand in a matter of weeks. Someone developed an economy bot, which was brilliant and a massive driver of activity. But the bot kept crashing and eventually it became so unreliable that nobody could use it. There was an influx of new members (the 4th Generation is what I called them at the time) who massively expanded the roleplay elements of the sim. Eventually the sim collapsed, when the hub server became too "toxic" after a war. Rival hubs were founded, but they failed to attract all of the community. At the same time the economy bot got completely wiped for some reason, so everyone lost interest. We primarily recruited through friend groups, so it died quite quickly once a few key groups left. It was fun.

[@venmis137]

I had no idea that there were other versions of these (or more accurately, other versions that were good (i.e. simulationist)). It'll be interesting to check them out.

[@dorol6375]

It's pretty indecent to call them concentration camps even if the name is technically accurate, it makes light of such a horrible thing

[@ZekromAndYugiAndDrago123]

"When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty" is a raw ass line to come from a bunch of teenagers trying and failing to make a government

[@ShankarSivarajan]

If you look it up, you might find that it _doesn't_ come from them. The people who tried and failed to make a government the quote is usually attributed to (and most likely lightly paraphrased from) were slightly older.

[@64ellz]

a trolligarch video gotta be a sign of a good year to come

[@hackerman84848]

Great vid! Having been involved later on in SimDem, and witnessisng the VoD events, it was interesting to see what other polsims have gotten up to during the years (Krameria wtf)

[@randomguy-tg7ok]

What happened to DemocracyCraft after that coup? I'm curious.

[@Trolligarch]

Somewhat controversially (although this obviously depends on who you ask), the owners stepped in to stop it by holding snap elections for Congress and the presidency. As DemocracyCraft is a dual state, the owners were within their _legal_ right to do that-but whether or not it was the _politically_ right thing to do is another question. In terms of how the event has shaped DemocracyCraft politics after, the members of that server would be able to give a better answer than me.

[@ArisWertin]

I’m an active lawyer on DC. We had a very rough period with a lot of turnover and anger, but eventually it all settled down. We had a stagnant President and then the coup faction reformed into a more moderate group and has held the Presidency since (Bezzer actually won legitimately).

[@ArisWertin]

@@Trolligarchfor your own information, I’m the lawyer that colluded with Matthew to do those Supreme Court shenanigans (AlexanderLove). The legal field was permanently marred after that, until a very recent good state. Politics recovered quickly albeit staff vs politician tensions never recovered. End always runs into a rough time as he’s a major political figure but his position as owner puts him under intense scrutiny.

[@electroflame6188]

well that's one way of getting a civics education

[@MrParadux]

Seems like a bad idea to base all of these so closely on the US-system. Those flaws become more and more appearent with every year

[@dusty_3625]

That is why its a good idea. The more flaws, the more fun.

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

@MrParadux Why?

[@lordmew5]

Funnily enough i think what hurt these democracies the most is that they lack the bottom up approach of America

[@snache1330]

considering the president of the US has 0 authority to create legislation, and there isn’t a combine advisor deciding what is “undemocratic” in the US either, I dont think this is based on American democracy

[@thefailure7789]

@snache1330 the upper and lower house thing is US inspired

[@truenorth1997]

Off to a good start, "this election is undemocratic"…

[@WanukeX]

As someone who has been involved in one for many years now. If you want to see teenage political wrangling turned up to another degree, look into the many Model Parliaments and Politics Simulations that exist on Discord and Reddit. It’s as bad as the communities here, but the Teenagers in question are also usually highly partisan from real life politics, ends about how you’d expect. A combo of hundreds of page long budget documents that read like something out of a multi million dollar think tank, combined with political parties rigging moderator elections to have their political opponents in the game banned.

[@squabbbb]

Great video as always, you have an incredible talent for making very complex and minute topics interesting. The concept of the "dormant supervisor" is one i had a lot of interest in when i was younger. A political system that exists solely to survey and enact the will of the people would be highly efficient with the right checks and balances in place

[@JamesF.-kv1nw]

32:10 Anytime a politician appears on television they need a banner that says "views expressed by this speaker do not necessarily reflect their views anymore"

[@fjdpaco]

I'm a person who wants to try to bring democracy to a planned minecraft server to help ease moderation tensions, I must say that this is probably the most important video I should watch right now.

[@Wreniffer]

dictatorship of the proletariat will stop the tension imo

[@fasddfadfgasdgs]

Problem is you don't know who is going to get elected and if they are going to be tyrants in the server. Humanity has many problems with their greed for power.

[@ezra7088]

okay it's so so funny seeing AP and Politico in this video, I can't even. Just wow it's both fascinating and over the top, but wow

[@sliverman5552]

Calling Redditors teenagers is pretty generous, if it reflects the rest of the platform, these are adults.

[@agatesmuidre8099]

I am simply amazed at the scale AND quality of this analysis. This is PhD level work about an unexplored and fascinating subject, that also informs about the real world - presented clearly and at no cost to us. More, please!

[@person8087]

57:05 Wow, this "Bobux Party" seems like it should've won all 17 seats.

[@SamiTheAnxiousBean]

"No manipulation of elections" was the most unrealistic rule here

[@jcb5782]

When I was 14 or so I played a lot of Roblox, and in that time the first so called ‘Napoleonic’ groups started popping up. Basically Roblox groups that depicted certain countries during the Napoleonic wars and fought eachother in special events. All actually pretty fun, and at that age it was just awesome to be surrounded by history nerds like myself. So at some point I joined a group that depicted the French Empire, and there was a whole hierarchy one had to go through. There was an emperor, and generals, majors, different regiments and specializations. You couldn’t even become an officer without endorsement from other higher-ups. You started as a trainee, and through participation in drills, combat performance, and general effort for the group, you could climb through the ranks. I made it to a Lieutenant in the 45th regiment (this is important) before things started getting…sketchy. You see, some of the officers in the other regiments were not really happy with our current emperor and generals. In truth they had been absent a lot, and because promotions from a certain point onward had to be done by them personally, the group was kind of a dead end for captains, lieutenants and other mid level officers like me. However, our regiment had one of the few active majors running it, who was friends with basically the only active general, so life continued as normal for us. Perhaps that is why we were surprised when half the group left out of the blue and created their own French Empire. It was a coup d’etat by the other regiments. The raids were so frequent that normal gameplay (i.e. trainings and such) became impossible, so we sat down with the regiment, and the group admins, emperor, marshals, to see what could be done. And here is where it gets real Machiavellian. As a lower ranking officer who was generally nice to everyone I enjoyed a certain amount of respect by the group members, including among the conspirators, and the admins seemed to know this. As they wanted to get the conspirators back on board, they came up with a plan. I would be made one of the marshals, just like that, and together with the two others I would oversee that higher ranking officers would be more active, participate more, or step down to be replaced by more worthy individuals. When this decision was communicated to the conspirators, by me actually if I remember well, a lot of them came back (at least 150 had left) and the coup was effectively over. However, some major had made a list of all the players who had conspired against the group. A f*cking list. And when these players came back to join the training sessions, they found themselves spawning under the ‘raiding’ team, but inside the fort in front of a wall unable to move. For weeks on end there were executions by firing squad, performed mostly by the same 45th regiment I had served in. After being ‘executed,’ the players were promptly banned from the place. Now I didn’t approve of this mind you, but agreed with the other marshals that I could only demote the major in charge after some time had passed. They were afraid it would send a message of new rebellion or whatever, but in any case this major was just another puppet in this Machiavellian hellscape that we created, a puppet to perform executions and then be dealt with himself because he made us look bad. Some weeks passed and I demoted this guy, stepped down as marshal, took command of the 45th regiment myself, and created a group within a group. Actually, we would have another good year of fun with this regiment, with our own Discord and training place I built myself, and with players I still talk to sometimes, after all these years. We even used genuine French drill manuals, and requested the group owners for uniform updates to represent the newesr details we learned in researching the actual 45th regiment, which we all got because I basically saved their group. We had an awesome time, but preceeding it was the strangest reflection of human nature in a video game I have ever seen. I mean, coups, executions, keeping players in the dark, using them; I’m not sure why I was not just discarded by the group admins. Why keep me, a lieutenant made marshal for a scheme, but allow this same marshal his new position and get rid of other players of lower rank who organized the executions (I mean, some kid somewhere went out of his way in his spare time to create a list of conspiring players in a Roblox group), yet at the same time keep the soldiers who actually performed it? Is it all just random? All just luck? I had the most fun year of gaming, honestly ever, with the 45th regiment, because of all this. Strange how the world works man…

[@intelligentdonut]

Excellent video! SimDemocracy and Voices of Democracy are some of the best ones out there, and it’s generally a very welcoming community.

[@daco-qt8vq]

is it though

[@simdemocracyofficial7512]

Ghost here: my favorite part of that trap I set for Uno/Reeses at the end of the video is that Dovahkin was pretending to be mad at me in the comment section which made the whole thing more legitimate

[@rtcitizen]

Man I remember being part of SPQR back in the day and running for the very first senate.... good times

[@simdemocracyofficial7512]

@ I remember you

[@TheMrDeb]

Hello, long-time member of the Virtual Congress Discord server and other Discord servers over the years. Very interesting video, I didn't know how many virtual democracies there were or how other places treated these issues. Well done!

[@simdemocracyofficial7512]

We need to make a UN of all of them

[@kickylol]

reminds me of this minecraft server where u can just jail anyone if u kill them and the admins wouldnt interfere for any reason, think it was called civmc or something. ppl would make larp nations around all the ideologies u could think of and it would actually work.

[@DockerImage]

wait omg you play on that server too? it's so good

[@ash.9002]

Hello. I’m a member of the modern 15th Republic of Krameria, and I am so happy to see us mentioned here!

[@rosvlinds]

this is so engaging when Jackie said “I don’t think so” I gasped lol

[@montiytREAL]

ISLE OF WOOLOO KINGDOMS MENTIONED!!! RAHHH WTF IS A GOOD GOVERNMENT

[@johanntim]

RAHHH RUSSIAN DEMOCRACY TIME

[@TheUndeniablyPowerfulH]

gotta admit when i saw iwk i was SHOCKED lmao XD

[@Respectable_Username]

It feels like in a lot of these teenage democracies, they would be served well by making their monarch an adult with zero connection to the community itself, maybe an older sibling or a parent of one of the members, whose sole job it is to sign off (or withhold their signature) on bills decided by the teenaged government, and to handle more serious out-of-character abuses. Somebody with zero interest in the day-to-day happenings of the community but who has the maturity to be the final say and so can act on inappropriate/unsafe behaviour to protect the kiddos

[@skiiworld]

8:00 oh he can’t cover them all well at least his a cute little video, wait that’s intro music, oh my God it’s an hour long

[@oliversales1180]

I wrote my dissertation on election turnout, now I’ve watched this I regret not researching this topic. Great video man this was really interesting and insightful. You could legit write this up and publish this

[@DIABETOR]

14:10 I propose that any government system created on Reddit should be called an Autismocracy

[@PersonUserPerson]

A rather fascinating place for government simulation in the Minecraft server Stoneworks. Rather than just running one government, there are hundreds running all at once, with some lasting extremely long times and holding mass amounts of power.

[@Mahawww]

This is really fun and interesting (Aside from dumb teenagers trying to deal with groomers using their made up discord laws, that's just fucked). Thanks for making these vids! Looking forward to see what you make next!

[@kennethkho7165]

They were trying to get the most sure fire way to get rid of the offender, which they did if you watch the video.

[@AlfieEdwards]

banning minecraft lag machines is literally 1984

[@placenamehere953]

Hello! Wanted to provide some further information on the Republic of Krameria for those interested! All information as of January 1, 2025 Start date: January 6, 2019 Total number Kramerian Incarnations: 18 (15 Republics + Archaic Republic + Kramerian Empire) Total number of Presidents since February 18, 2019: 206 Total number of Vice Presidents since February 18, 2019: 238 Total number of Speakers of the House since February 22, 2019: 168 All information on Republics themselves can be found in the Wiki or Republic of Krameria server itself. Majority of information preserved.

[@einstein951]

How did a discord server get nuked _twice_

[@delinquente1444]

Because krameria had a low quality of people and internal schisms and people from Republic of Discord like me were targeting it ​@@einstein951

[@angelb.3692]

Regarding of how some of these ended up with flaws, it's actually quite impressive how some teenagers where really going serious with all this stuff

[@lekorzinqua]

2 mins into the video >A Reddit democracy >Creator and "Dormant supervisor" with highest executive position actively participating in own experiment I wonder where does all problems start from

[@CLSGL]

11:58 “(a) All users with the ‘Jewish’ role shall be mandated to include the Star of David in the beginning of their nickname” is wild.

[@tetraxis3011]

Literally the start of Nazi Germany

[@Spartan322]

Ain't all that surprising that internet folks who don't take anything seriously would do that, either as a dark joke, deliberate troll of the system, or in attempt to get the server in trouble.

[@thetuerk]

I wonder if anyone benevolent enough comes along to be Owner of a virtual democracy, but forfit any and all rights to the elected governemnt. Like a silent god

[@uncommon_name9337]

Constitutional Monarchies ?

[@-ZH]

Basically 12:33, no?

[@thetuerk]

​@@-ZH nothing at all like that. No tranfer, just a watching, lurking server owner that enforces whatever laws have been created

[@hundredlashes]

MEC

[@Demiuuu]

The habbo extradition play was actually genius

[@mikej3945]

I think part of the problem is that there's no real need to govern. With no other countries, combined threats, a livelyhood on the line, or lack of resources; the formation of a government is useless, making it very easy for the bystander effect to kick in and allow these groups to become corrupt

[@carrys9]

27:42 This part sent genuine shivers through my body. This quote could describe the current situation regarding a constitutional crisis that is still ongoing where i live. It is a VERY complex situation, but in short new ruling coalition does not recognize multiple constitutional judges due to them being considered as illegitimate and incorrectly chosen by the previous ruling party, due to double appointments on multiple seats in 2015. It's probably not intentional, but in a part where he talks about democratic backsliding, the report he shows consists a picture from demonstrations against the previous ruling government regarding this exact crisis. While in a bit different way and in a different situation, for a bunch of teenagers on a minecraft server to replicate a legal dualism issue very similar to one caused by real, governing politicians is both fascinating and terrifying.

[@Trolligarch]

While the picture of the demonstration wasn't intentional, the reference to democratic backsliding was. I didn't say it explicitly in the video, but I too saw parallels with Poland's rule of law crisis when I first researched this story.

[@vasilisdouklias6992]

I've stumbled upon your videos randomly and I am surpised that there are/were so many democracy/state sims. Also the quality of your videos is amazing and you must do a ton of research into the happenings of these communities

[@Gus_the_cat]

Very good video, I very much enjoy this style of long form content! keep it up, and I hope to see many more cool videos about virtual democracies as you stated in the middle of the vid, with how there are way too many types of virtual democracy styles out there for you to squeeze into one vid. I wish you luck on all the rest of your vids!

[@blyatman4876]

guys there's no mention of the prerogative state, Hans Kelsen's basic norm ("Grundnorm") or practical concordance, how do I cope

[@OltsuSuomesta]

schizophrenic ramblings,,,

[@ragnewsnetwork7697]

Long time contributor and outcast menace to DemocracyCraft (Donuticus) here. I couldn't agree more with the sentiment that DemocracyCraft has declined, however in my opinion it has done so 2 years ago. The server really is rotten to the core and part of that has been some pretty major and shocking allegations made against the server owners which really don't make the server a safe space to be on. As a major player in this scheme, I was the brains behind the planning, legal trickery, and scheming to get this done It's nice to see people enjoyed the plot. If you wanna here more info about DC Krix and I have actually made a bunch of videos on the server - and if people are interested we'd deffo be up for making more videos explaining this plot in more detail firsthand and such :) Don't play "DemocracyCraft" play CityRP or "BusinessCraft"

[@StarryArrii]

absurdly high quality video, glad to have discovered this channel

[@dusty_3625]

Appreciate the breakdown. It was great to speak to you Trolligarch, and share our stories!

[@kiptoke]

As someone who used to be very involved in these sorts of things, hearing about the theories on why/how users become involved with virtual democracies due to the appeal of doing "political theater" and "drama" definitely hit a little close to home - I blazed brightly for a bit in some of these communities before becoming bored and moving on to other things quite quickly... Even more telling about my motivations is that I've moved onto another great source of political drama... *municipal politics*

[@Chaossquid567]

Bro I clicked on this video to save it to watch later, and ended up watching the whole introduction. safe to say this is a banger video you got here ✨✨

[@WraithPlays]

The debate in this video far better than the Trump v Biden equivalent

[@zarajday]

This concept of a virtual democracy and how they operate and fail is utterly fascinating to me. Every story I could think of real world analogs to what the communities were facing and it gets a lot more intense than I would have expected.

[@imcubanb2870]

Pure democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding on what is for dinner.

[@moosecannibal8224]

I hope this boosted your sub count. This is a lightning-in-a-bottle type of subject and I'm happy to see the view count be over quadruple your sub count. Always a good sign for smaller channels. And now, I settle back in, to finish this very interesting video.

[@karrebu6681]

Insane levels of unemployment here

[@cattusfattus6369]

Huge respect for your channel, really interesting topics covered so far :)

[@delinquente1444]

I see you malth

[@kezia8027]

I really lucked out subscribing after your last vid - this is QUALITY! If you can keep this up, I can see you easily surpassing 500k subs

[@jasperbarley9816]

A long time ago, me and a bunch of my high school buddies made a discord server. Which went okay for a while… until one of our former friends who runned it went of the deep end and decided to turn it into a police state. So, those who were left cut ties and formed a new server. A true republic where no one person held too much power over others. With most of the original members forming a counsel to decide the direction of the server. It’s still going okay. Mostly because it’s a server for friends.

[@Ralzone]

I though this video was 10 minutes long, so I decided to watch it... Then I noticed it is an hour long and its a very in-depth video... Not complaining, Imma watch it.

[@Watcher1105]

It’s crazy seeing Simdemocracy mentioned in a KZbin video. I was a member for a long time. I never did anything major but I was privy to a lot of insider politics and controversies due to being friends with a lot of major players at the time. It was super fun!