TROUBLE: Breitling Doing This Again

[@Time_Passages]

I am not sure I completely agree. For instance, Rolex supports and sponsors various sports such as tennis, golf, sailing, Formula 1, equestrianism, and yachting. Breitling has now acquired UG to be their higher end brand. This was genius. As enthusiasts we tend to think that brands cater primarily to us, but they are really after a much larger customer base. I think Breitling has become expensive like many other brands. This would, perhaps, be their biggest problem. I may be biased because I own a SuperOcean. Just my opinion.

[@fancycatkit]

Agree, I think Breitling are doing great overall and that shows with the sales and general brand growth among the public.

[@tvo6453]

I have owned five Breitlings…chronomats, superoceans and navitimers…all chronographs and have never has any issues. To me, with the discounts available…they are great bang for the buck. Currently wearing a Breitling Chronomat GMT 44, which i bought brand new for 3k USD…which i love and get so many compliments on

[@Roy-vh9rp]

I own five Breitlings, all from the Schneider era. The brand's shift in direction with the new owner has brought some disappointing changes. It appears Breitling is aiming to cut production costs by adopting flat crystals, compromising on water resistance, among other things. And the move towards being more politically correct doesn't align with what I seek in a watch. I want bad ass watches, not politics or cost-cutting!

[@cjmcaulay]

Schneider era is the way to go!

[@carattentat4944]

The Breitling removal of the winged logo from aviation-related models is "...eh, wtf?" Prices went beyond logic. The whole range is diluted by some irrelevant car-inspired ("Breitling Cars" Cafe Racers ,Rugby runners and nonsense Surfers), or even worse "Hong Kong" styled dress watches. Boy George Kern "woked" Breitling and killed the original spirit of their identity !!

[@alexyaybar]

The point you miss is that Breitling is on a glide path to do a IPO in approx 24 months. Consequently George has been focused on short term revenue bump without a focus on long term and quality and in house movements. His focus has been on the vintage reissue to get their revenue bump.

[@Treetopflyer777]

I think John is spot on. I’ve had a ton of Breitlings over the years. I no longer own one. And, under the current leadership (looking at you Kern) I won’t. Breitling was known for quality and for being a great tool watch. A watch with purpose. Do you remember the Breitling catalogs? Those were killer!! They got your blood pumping. Pages and pages of amazing, adrenaline fueled photographs. THAT was Breitling. You wanted to be in those pictures. To be part of the action. Now they are just mall- fashion watch crap. George’s Kern has killed the brand. It belongs in a mall store next to fossil or Michael kors. It may appeal to Michael kors or Victoria Beckham fans but the watch enthusiasts are running away in droves. But I guess enthusiasts aren’t the target for them. Mass sales and making money are the target. The final nail in the coffin for me was the ditching of the winged (and anchored) B. That defined Breitling in my opinion. It was immediately recognizable. Now is a generic B. Great job Breitling. Boring, bland and diluted. Just like your watches.

[@carattentat4944]

Boy George Kern is the only Magician in the Watch World of Wanker Wonders who is not participating in Geneva ,since the aim is selling quality concerned consumers POPCORN -ECO-ILLUSIONS for the price of CAVIAR perfectly aimed at the OVERSHARING LOOK AT ME GENERATION !!

[@davidjgestetner4004]

Well said👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@KAM128]

It is about time they update their Chronomat and even do an update on their b01 movement. Want to see them shave off 1 or 2mm in thickness on the Chrono Chronomat case and make it 40mm

[@voidifremoved]

The B01 movement is being updated check out Hodinkee's interview with Georges.

[@KAM128]

@@voidifremoved that's awesome news! Will check it out!

[@bayflowshow65]

Jomashop has the entire recent collection of Breitling at a 20-35% off retail. If that isn’t a red flag, I don’t what is. I think Jomashop has set a realistic price point for the brand.

[@stevens1041]

Agreed

[@uhrenglueck2587]

Well said! I fully agree with all you have said. And it makes me quite sad because I quite like Breitling. I own a Chronomat, AVI 1953 and AVI 1964 re-editions and love those watches. But im also very confused of their recent releases. To name a few the ladys navitimers, the avenger re branding, the top time car edition (what a pitty they are ruining such an iconic collection and imagine what great re editions they could do!) and the new reduced AVI models with just very basic movements. Seems to me like they are messing up something tgat was going so well the past few years.

[@alfieakaronaldog]

They do make some pretty nice 36mm ladies watches and that Endurance is very cool. The biggest new Superocean on rubber is about as close as I would get to one, but the cost is silly and feel a Sinn is actually better.

[@lonewolfemcquade8133]

Have a previous generation wings logo Breitling Super ocean 44mm and it's a great watch with an excellent build, great bezel action and very accurate but I be the first to admit. I don't love everything Breitling has done but they definitely have some gems in the lineup

[@JohnPWatches]

Agreed

[@hugohugo37]

I think Tissot is a great example of this. Now they are known for the PRX but up until recently, you would walk by their display and there would be every style you could think of in the case with no ONE design that typified the brand. Something for everyone indicates that they aren't very confident in their design language and gives off a mall watch store vibe. Most brands are doing the opposite to what Breitling is doing. Take Timex, they made watches in a million styles but recently went back to their old catalog, back to designs that set them apart back in the day.

[@teomersinkov2563]

Since Kern took over he is leading Breitling the bad road Tissot used to take a long time ago. The Shneider era Breitlings are amazing watches as terms of quality. They were lacking in the marketing department for sure. My almost 20 year old chronomat is still in perfect condition and i’m sure that’s not going to be the case with the new products.

[@dannysimenauer5745]

John adds some excellent perspective. I will add mine. I own several Breitling watches, and they are affordable, available, and reliable. I wanted to add the Datora model in pistachio or salmon, except one major design flaw on the dial! I can’t get over that the 2/4/8/10 numerals are cut in half! I even wrote to Breitling to let them know of my displeasure. I trust in George Kerns leadership and so look forward to the Universal Geneve brand launches to come!

[@JohnPWatches]

Thanks Danny!

[@keywestjoe1]

I have 2 watches that are about 7 years old. Both are running within 2 seconds a day, and still look great. The SuperOcean Heritage 42 is probably the best watch in my collection.

[@BobMarley-pm1xb]

I hope they make a change before they destroy their hard earned reputation as a real deal watch…..Navitimer for example. I see TAG making a genuine attempt to regain their heritage via Heuer. The 39 mm Glass Box, tri-compax , in-house with a column wheel. I have the blue sunburst with the date at the 6. It is not a “value” watch but for what you get I think it is priced fairly/a little TOO high imho. But the dial….holy smokes it’s gorgeous and 39 mm…….the crystal is ….wow. I looked at Navitimers. It’s what I wanted. Glad I went to an AD for both, tried it on…..all the good stuff. I really hope TAG stays the course and I will ALWAYS consider Breitling but man, they have a great catalog. They ought to take a look. Super vid John! Thanks

[@AdityaKhorana]

George Kern just did an interview with Hodinkee (a few days ago) that was telling. He said they want to be a generalist brand and cater to everyone. My takeaway is that they want to be the "best of the rest" in every category rather than focusing efforts on occupying the top of a few categories. As per the CEO, this strategy seems to be working given their increased sales and brand recognition, but like you I do wonder if this will have a detrimental effect down the line.

[@voidifremoved]

Price from an AD is out to lunch but you can get some really good deals on the secondary market. I like the expansion of the brand, back a few years ago they were strictly a masculine aviator brand that were stuck in the big size bling category. I agree with you that some of the directions they have gone are not so great but there are some lines that I admire. Not every song written is a hit. I wish companies like Tudor would grow more out of their comfort zone and take some chances like the flying B has. Watch Geroges interview with Hodinkee, things are going to stay in this direction, sorry. I own a blue A23322 and really enjoy it and may buy a salmon Premiere down the road on the secondary market if I can find a good deal.

[@nchance1]

I love Breitling, their quality is top notch. It does seem some of the marketing as of the last 3 months has been towards "short term audience attention".

[@philipsdefreville6138]

Hey John. I totally agree, excellent commentary. I recently went to a major Breitling AD and walked out totally confused. Just too many models and no clear message or focus.

[@OmidSoltan]

The brand has been revitalized in recent years, but I don’t think they have a hit model(s). They have an interesting catalog, but I don’t see a world in which many first time or novice buyers would skip the likes of Rolex, Omega and Cartier and spend 5,6,7 or 9k on a Breitling.

[@JohnPWatches]

Agreed

[@WestCoastAce27]

Thx for the update. I can see trying to break away from the ‘just pilots and divers’ brand - but yes, probably overdoing it. The brand is dead to me on price/value. I’ll keep buying Tudors and saving thousands.

[@omar10213245]

just buy breitling preowned. there are tons of breitling models on the re-sell/preowned/gray market that are barely worn, which are being sold 25-40% lower than MSRP, and easy to find.

[@SimonLeung-l2b]

I own a Breitling Ref. 13035.1 Stainless Steel Colt Automatic Chronograph on leather strap, when this model hit the market in 1998-2000 the watch was clearly aimed at the armed forces. 25 years later, the marketing executives at Breitling are doing the same thing as Longines has done, by trying accommodate everyone and ruining the image of the brand by oversaturation of different models, making all the more confusing for established clients. As for myself, the other watch I own is a 1972 Rolex DateJust ref.1601 complete set with boxes, papers, leather passport holder and sales receipts is my everyday timepiece, that my dad gifted me on 12th Birthday, in Dec. 1982.

[@petrokersta5293]

The brand has definitely strong connections with aviation, hence the winged logo. As Mr. Kern said Breitling can be split into Air, Land and Sea. The same way Willy Breitling had envisioned. It sounds logical, right? If there is a watch genre that is synonymous with Breitling it’s a chronograph. With great in-house movements why don’t stick with chronographs for each line? Omega has Speedy, Rolex has Daytona and tag Heuer has Carrera and Monaco. Well Breitling has Navitimer and Cosmonaut was worn in space. A true icon amongst other iconic chronographs. It’s interesting what Breitling will do with the Universal Geneve revival? Which is also known for its chronographs.

[@JohnPWatches]

I also look forward to the UG revival

[@chris22824]

I have 2 of the Navitimers but the new 41mm has the B logo instead of the Wings logo on an aviation watch. What a mistake!

[@flyingdoc1138]

it is important to remember they are selling watches to the general public, not collectors. I agree with what you are saying 100%. I like Breitling, but honestly never really like it when watch companies start to make commemorative lines for sports, cars etc. A one off limited edition for something every now and then is great, it can help to commemorate an event or some other product that will be significant to a small group of people. That can be interesting and can shine a light on something that people may be unaware of. But putting out entire lines for different product tie ins is a cheap move for a collector in my opinion. Again as you said we don't have their financials, nor are we privy to their marketing data etc.

[@markriobr]

I love the brand since saw the first one Chrono a friend just had buy in St tropez summer 87. Was 21 and had just signed a contract with an agency in NY. L A was my home city, a Brazilian surfer would never live in some other place. Since they had also one agency there was perfect, start making some good money and travel a lot. November was in NY doing some shooting , when finished was fly back home in the evening. Walking on 5th ave saw Cellini sign ahead, thought if they have it one will be my. They did have, fell for a Chronomat with leather bracelet, gold only on the four rotation points and on the three time set knobs. Had cash and got a discount, beautiful watch, few years later bought a Colt. Looks and works just like the day I bought, 30 years and never had a single problem. The first on this video i really liked.

[@watchdogpodcast239]

They were number 9 in Swiss watch sales volume last year according to the Morgan Stanley report. A huge improvement from previous years. Brands ultimately exist to sell watches and make money. Expanding an audience at the risk of turning off hardcore fans is part of growth. Happens in music all the time. Many bands adapt to a more commercial sound and turn off their fan base who has been following them from the beginning.

[@WingsofWendysChilli]

Spent $11K+ on a brand new Super AVI Pro Chrono 46mm Tribute to Corsair - it never touched water, had any for of impact (not even a high five) and 0 damage including any blemishes, scratches, etc. I work from home, take care of everything I own, and it didn't even last 10months before it quit working entirely. Now after 5 months waiting on warranty repairs, with 0 forecast for completion, it has dawned on me that I made the wrong purchase. Since the Kern era the brand has gone downhill, and I truly have more faith in the quality of one of their older models - 10-20yrs old VS their new releases. We'll see how it is returned and if they truly fixed the issues for the long term. Disappointed is an understatement.

[@IowanLawman]

Breitling has and will always be an aviation watch for me. I still have a Breitling from my father years ago and its flown with me in every jet I've had the pleasure to fly in from 777s to Mig-29s. Its a shame how the company is branching out everywhere and losing its identity to ride the trends.

[@Bhethar]

Breitling watch rental… That is… kind of sad.

[@GabrielX84]

Dude I Love the strap on the Panerai , who makes it ?

[@JohnPWatches]

Thank you. I found it on Amazon from a seller called "StrapHabit". I am not affiliated with them, but I enjoy the strap!

[@sowhat8087]

They have lost sight of what their bread and butter has been and Kern is actually cheapening the name very sad

[@andhenny]

I still love the Avengers, NaviTimers, Chronomats, the Endurance is cool. They still make great, classic models, but some of their other stuff is a head scratcher.

[@marky9223]

It sounds like the CEO of Invicta is now running the company. Just need some comic book inspired pieces in the collection.

[@defenestratedone]

Nah they wouldn’t want to intrude on AP’s turf 😂

[@JohnBowman-ut4dz]

Hi I think your right if they go like tag trying to get every market but tag do make a few good watches but most of them are rubbish so I hope that breitling don't go the same way because I now rank tag hauler as low grade luxury watch and I own six breitlings and hopefully they don't go down the fashion watch root thanks John.

[@alfieakaronaldog]

You didn’t mention the extortionate servicing costs 😳

[@bigbrown6126]

They need to bring the wings logo back. And get back to the essence.

[@anthonyvierra1975]

2 years as a Watchmaker at a Breitling AD and I wouldn’t own a Breitling for any reason. They over charge for the quality, still use Sellita movements. You wouldn’t believe how many watches came in broken from the factory. There are just better watches to put your money into.

[@nchance1]

I have a Breitling with a B01 chronograph. No problems, it has been perfect

[@DGenerationX69]

Own an Avenger Seawolf for three years. No issues. Accurate to within three seconds per day.

[@anthonyvierra1975]

@@nchance1the only issues I’ve seen with those was the operating lever and only in the Navitimer case. The B01 isn’t really an issue.

[@JohnPWatches]

Wow, great insight. Thanks for sharing!

[@anthonyvierra1975]

@@DGenerationX69 I would expect that kind of accuracy from that watch. Do pay attention to the crown and stem, the crown strips often and the stem is extra long due to the size of the case so they do break during winding.

[@alfieakaronaldog]

🤡 Brand that cuts lots of corners and talks absolute nonsense in the sales descriptions of its watches to AD’s

[@cybergunstore5905]

100% ok with you and I think Zenith also is playing wrong game

[@stevens1041]

Charging near 5000 dollars for a 38 hours power reserve? For a brand that wants to modernize, this pricing clearly has negotiation and discounting at the AD baked into the equation.

[@salvaavlas5757]

Totally agree with you John.

[@Odat]

Another thing that bothers me about Breitling is they keep calling the B01 movement in the Navitimer and their other top models as in house yet they sold it to Tudor to use in their Black Bay that retails for half the price as the Navitimer!!. It is not an exclusive movement and cheapens it imo. Also, it seems they are releasing a new watch every day. They are diluting the brand big time. I’m done with them.

[@ivansmith4242]

Fallen into a trap? Breitling has always operated this way.

[@fossilimprint2954]

Like a restaurant that tries to serve mexican, chinese, french, japanese food, you know that it will not end well. Same with watches, those brands that focus on 2-3 targets, they excel at those markets. Being politically correct is definitely a big negative.

[@adamgillaspy1]

Tag Heuer are classed at cheap watches at 4k but bretling watch value has decliend. One lesson, buy a rolex if you can afford it.

[@BWV478]

Nice mic!

[@JohnPWatches]

Thanks! Trying to spruce things up a bit.

[@SunsetSheen]

Terrible moves recently from the brand. Kinda sad bc they seemed like they were really headed in the right direction for a bit.

[@andrewbrown5636]

I think Panerai are doing the same..trying to appeal to everyone

[@johnberan1906]

I agree, they are partnering way too much. Way too many models, I can't even keep up anymore. They should focus on perfecting a handful of models to be class leaders. Instead, they are becoming gimmicky with these partnerships. Jack of all, master of none.😊

[@johnpinner1]

I think Universal Geneve will save Breitling keep your finger cross

[@AkuNoHana]

Modern Breitling as far as I'm concerned is an absolute disaster. Trying too hard to appeal to the soft boys and casual crowd by significantly toning down strong designs they once had. Breitling I knew weren't for everyone, and was unapologetic with their strong design DNA. Always playful, full of soul, personality and sometimes full of machismo too. I won't be surprised if the new direction is better for the business but I don't wear a company's bottom line on my wrist.

[@DGenerationX69]

👋

[@JohnPWatches]

Hi

[@stupidocanerosa]

Getting face to face with Invicta. Maybe it's their goal.

[@cheekykid]

One thing I don't like is that they now use lab grown diamonds for their watches. A lab grown diamond pretends to be something that its not.

[@johnnyvieira1740]

Another over priced watch brand

[@gelmibson883]

U can get a 42 B01 fi0r 40% off....the bigger ones saw even cheaper....no long term strategy. They cheapen the watches in terms of finnishband have no clear line up.....money money

[@johnwheat5199]

Breitling, for the most part, are "A One Trick Pony". Take away "The Navitimer" and there isn't much left of any merit these days. Let's be candid, the only real future for Breitling, is to look back!

[@omar10213245]

i will admit that i prefer my 20-year old colt chronograph and superocean models, to my new navitimer

[@johnwheat5199]

@@omar10213245 I think the Navitimer is something you either love, or hate. I have to confess, it's the latter for me. Breitling perfection in my book consists of just one model, the "Top Time", and even then, it's a vintage version.

[@terryc6420]

I think this so-called controversy of the Victoria Beckham release is just a bunch of broflakes getting triggered over their beloved ultra macho brand is no longer their safe space. Plenty of brands need to branch out to other niches and demographics in order to stay relevant and to grow, Breitling is no different. They were known for their ultra macho image back in the day with their jet team and pin-up decor, which have gone completely out of style these days and is just considered cringey. Their current direction of diversity and sustainability is the right move, and will serve them well into the future.

[@realnicesuit]

Sadly, Breitling has become VERY boring. I use to love the brand in the early 2000's but now I'm not in love with any of the offerings. I bought the new turquoise Super Ocean but hardly wear it now. Pretty dial but it just doesn't move me. I think they need to revamp. Looking to see what they offer at Watches and Wonder in April. That will say a lot about where they are going.

[@osobad1127]

Wake me up when the re-release their co-pilot yachting watch 🥱

[@JohnPWatches]

Will do