Troubleshooting: Bad Camshaft Kohler Command

In "Unsolved Mower Mysteries", Taryl goes over what to do when your Krohler Command engine runs too rich like it does in this here video. It won't suck in air through the carbatrator like it should and runs rough. After scratching his head for minutes, hours, days... Taryl finally cracked the code with what was wrong with this Krohler Command V-Twin engine.
Prior to and after the lesson, new hit TV show "Unsolved Mower Mysteries" is sweeping the nation! Check out this episode's full creepy story here and be sure to stick around til the end for the update. Surely another classic, yet informative, how-to video from your pals at Grass Rats Garage!
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[@TarylFixesAll]

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[@thomasjehnkins1986]

Gotta hand it to you man!... you put a LOT of effort into these videos AND you go the extra mile for your customer!

[@kennethfanelli5496]

The music is my favorite

[@chrisa1125]

No shit, I wish Taryl was near me. I've got an Exmark Lazer Z with an oil leak that I'd take to Taryl!

[@gratzbuck9882]

This was one of your most enjoyable videos. As a retired instrument mechanic and electrical foremen, this was a prime example of my philosophy, no matter how aggravating "the tough ones are the ones you learn from".

[@enterusername4209]

You know, I had a case bolt come loose on my MS280 Stihl and it broke some fins on my flywheel. $80 later for a new flywheel and it cuts great. I did remove those bolts and gave them a shot of lock tight. Thanks for your videos.

[@carlmiller1034]

Excellent, in-depth walk-thru of the issue with the engine. That seems like a few hours (at least) spent trouble shooting. But you fixed it...because Taryl Fixes All!!!! Great job. Now, time to celebrate your success and purchase some Taryl apparel. Thanks again!

[@ralphwatten2426]

I'd like to see if that little piece of crap from the reed valve is in the compressione release. Thank God for Sunday Taryl mysteries.

[@FarmallForever]

MY FAVORITE SHOW! UNSOLVED MOWER MYSTERIES!

[@jaybee2344]

Can you imagine Robert Stack making a Cameo appearance!

[@charlesbostick2184]

@@maj8301 Aa!!

[@trevor5290]

Perfect timing for my morning coffee :) You guys are the best!!

[@fixingstufftv453]

LOL, another great video. Got to love those engineers and number crunching nerds. Someone saved a few pennies by using a low torque starter motor and an over complicated compression release system.

[@edhartman2860]

I have to admit, when I'm mowing on my Cub Cadet, I find myself yelling "Taryl Dactyl Here"!!

[@davidbulich1254]

The manufacturer should just put on stronger starters instead of a troublesome compression release

[@JOEZEP54]

This would have me going for days. Thank you for posting this. Stay well, Joe Z

[@dkeith45]

I wonder if the compression release parts on the old Kohler Command camshaft could be removed, and reinstall the shaft without those parts?

[@BrucesWorldofStuff]

That's what I am thinking or push the weight in and grind down the lifts on the exhaust cam lobes so that they will be even with the cam lobe... Just a thought from a 35 + year mechanic from the back yard... Lol

[@garny3766]

Yeah I’m sure it can but when T was looking at the cam when he removed it the CR was stuck open...it should have been disengaged. I think something else is going on. Like I said in my earlier post I would like to have seen the flywheel key too.

[@BrucesWorldofStuff]

@@garny3766 I went and looked at the video again to make sure before replying. When T pulled out the cam and turned it over the weight was stuck and it was stuck close to the shaft and the compression lift pins were sticking all the way out holding open the valves as it went around. That is seen in the video plain as day. Another thing a guy could do is weld the weight in the out(open) position so the lifts do not stick out and hold the valves open. Just a thought! ME: I would have ground down the lifts and reinstalled the camshaft and got lunch... Lol LLAP P.S. I have one of these engines and if this happens, that is what this 67 year old mechanic is going to do... :-) $200 bucks my buck teeth..... :-D

[@garny3766]

Bruce Scott Humm I just watched again and @ 11:09 you can see his left index push counterweight back towards camshaft (that’s the first click sound) in essence turning “on“ CR. It does appear the lift pins are sticking up until he cycles the CR a few times though🤔

[@mikeroutledge6929]

Brilliant, love from the UK

[@gordbaker896]

At 22:35 there is a lightweight casting that is supported by the Crankshaft and has weights hanging from it. What exactly does it do? Part of Dynamic Balancing?

[@dennissytsma3561]

Outstanding analysis. I have this engine on my year 2003 Craftsman GT5000 lawn tractor.

[@tonyfremont]

Can't wait for the update where they find the reed valve piece between a piston skirt and cylinder wall. It's in there somewhere. Might be sandwiched in the compression relief though.

[@dkeith45]

I recently bought a non running GT5000 with one of these engines. After seeing so many of Taryl's videos on the many and various problems with the Kohler Command V twin, I think I'm going to just replace the engine with a good old Kohler Command single cylinder engine, even though it's only a 17 hp.

[@bw1841]

Yeah but they CAN have simple problems that are easy to fix. My command pro 25 from the 90's on an Exmark has 1700hrs, and has only had a blown head gasket. It is so strong i didnt realize the head gasket for a year, then a mouse chewed the coil wire and made that cylinder stop contributing what little power it was putting out. Then it would run on one but die when i switched on the blades.

[@dkeith45]

@@bw1841 I got this one for $250 a couple months ago. It's in excellent condition, but for its engine problem. It's the geared model, not a hydrostat. Previous owner said it broke down, he took it to a repair shop, who said it had a blown head gasket. So they put new ones on. THen those blew also. So he was done messing with it. My original intent was to see if I could fix the 25hp, but after watching some of Taryls videos and others on the MANY problems with these Kohler Twins, I'm not sure I want to even try. Which is why I figure I'll put the 17 in, to get it out of my shop, then toy with the 25 later. And who knows, it might work fine with the 17 single cylinder Kohler Command. I have another Craftsman, a LT1000 that had a 17hp Intek that threw its compression release. While waiting for the new parts to come in, I put in an old 11 hp B&S flathead engine and it ran and mowed fine with it, though it could not power through high grass as well as the original 17 could.

[@paulslapcm]

does the 20 hp v twin camshaft have a decompression

[@phillipparker8947]

You da man Taryl. Another great video, brought to you by,"Grass Rats Garage" Whooooooooooooo.

[@terrymiler2164]

All they have to do is fast forward,or rewind to there liking. If they don't know tap the screen this cool little slide bar comes on screen wow move it how and where ya want. I love the kids keep up the good work.

[@DK85]

That pink suit coat is GOLD! Ya little twerp!

[@stevenbeauchamp1320]

Taryl always makes me laugh but when elk skin laughs at him that makes me laugh more. Love it when he says Taryls line....fire it up and Taryl tells him him to shut up. You guys are hilarious!!!

[@jason-ge5nr]

Reckon you earned your money on that one. Or lost your shirt. And there's your dinner (off the dollar menu). I appreciate the diagnostics and sharing.

[@DavidSmith-fr1uz]

I am just wondering if a little tiny piece of a that reed is semi lodged under that compression release somewhere.

[@SteveKluver]

I agree. That piece is very thin and flat, and with a little bit of oil on it, it could easily stick between the gear face, and the CR counterweight. I would have slid a business card in between there right away, and gotten my flashlight out 😃

[@KYKAYAKER274ey1]

Crap love the channel when u went woo I did too forgot I had guests at my house freaked them out now there binge watching your channel awesome

[@donnieharrelson1712]

DAM SAM..you are king of U tube

[@zrkn1]

TARYL ALL DAY EVERYDAY FIXES EVERYTHING

[@Willie-n9s]

Love these guys .😅 Hats off to taryl fixes channel

[@waltbogar6988]

Taryl, was hoping you could answer a question for me. I have a Kohler CV15S engine and cannot locate where the regulator/rectifier is on this engine. The videos I have watched show one in the corner of the engine shroud, but mine has a plate there. Does the engine have a regulator/rectifier and if so, where is it? Thanks for your help.

[@kevinleee3408]

Lol i love the voices you do. Where's the compression release? o there it is. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@wadebarnes6720]

I like the oil drain pipe

[@PatOne09]

Just curious, does this motor have hydraulic lifters and if so did you replace them too? Thanks for all your videos. You are the Khan Academy of small engine repair. Keep up the great work!

[@Goomer]

T want more "Secret Mower Cults", I bet there is one with Little Johnny as the leader.

[@roys1247]

New one on me compression relief issue on a V-twin would have had me scratching my head too. on the other hand I've seen plenty single intek engines with the counter weight in the sump.

[@fullmoonlawns]

This was a cool idea for a skit. Great Video!

[@dkeith45]

I just discovered that I'd missed this video. I watched it a few days ago and decided to reinstall that 25hp I'd showed you guys recently, to see if it had the same issues, before continuing with my repower plan. It doesn't have the same issue. What happens is it starts and runs great, for about two or three minutes, then oil comes spurting out of the OHV breather tube, shoots into the carb, and makes a hell of a mess. If I shut the engine down, and let it cool, then restart it, it's the same thing. It runs great for about two minutes, then oil shoots out the breather tube again. So maybe it's a bad reed valve instead of the rings? EDIT 12/13/2021. Update. I took it to Taryls shop soon after this post and he said the rings were the fault. New rings, seal, gasket total around $250 just for the parts so this engine is going to be sitting awhile. I repowered the machine with a 17 hp Kohler single cylinder.

[@moparmadman1134]

Great video love your sense of humour. What do think would cause a Kohler command to lockup bought it used with crack in oil pan have welded up but now it ain’t turning over

[@joshblainer2652]

I'd watch the whole unsolved mower mystery series lol

[@philliphall5198]

I always knew us mechanics were kinda UN normal and strange but dam it you proved it. Lololo 😮

[@kerrygleeson4409]

Fantastic diagnosis

[@truthawaits4u458]

In the words of some guys called the Styx or something,you've got "🎼🎶too much,time on your hands🎶🎶" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@billfischer6464]

It's nice to see that some things stump you for a minute. A Hamms and elk skins later and she's running right

[@bonzaibarty]

Good video! Sorry you had such a bad time with crap cams

[@brucel.6078]

Excellent video!!!!! Never seen that before!!!! You guys rock!! 🍺🍺

[@softmetals3702]

love to buy you guys a beer fun place to work

[@carlleroy5952]

What do you set the valves at with no compression release ? It’s going to lock up on startup with no compression relief

[@tonyallen4912]

why does my 7000 series KT745 stop turning when i run a compression test on it???

[@jameshedrick6839]

I've never seen a flywheel with missing fins like that before. And with that briggs engine i've changed i don't know how many of the cams because of a broken compression release

[@ChevyCitation]

At 18:43 That Engine was Granny Revving not pulling in air like it should

[@jeffshearer5125]

Put that mystery in the cold case files, next to the beer.

[@Brian-cr6rb]

Absolutely love the parody!

[@Nunya_Bidnez]

Great work Grass Rat King.

[@dannylister558]

Thats some fine detective work..very interesting video..i have a mystery of my own..to be shared at a later date..

[@sjcf89]

How do you charge on repairs like this?

[@Cinder2008]

I’m wondering the same thing. A used part saving a $200 parts bill. Lots of time assembling and disassembling. What is the mower worth?

[@Cinder2008]

Doug Reed some states require an estimated cost when the mower is dropped off. If That were my mower and I was handed a “piece of paper with a bunch of numbers “ I’d have a problem paying a 4 figure bill. Unless my dinner had been discussed and authorized.

[@sjcf89]

Sounds like there was a good few hours spend on it. I just want to know if they charge out every hour?

[@Dastardly84]

My 26HP Briggs VTwin sounds like that Kohler. Though I don't think this one has a compression release and I checked the valve operation and it seems to be okay. Also think I recently bought bad gas (ironically it was ethanol free pump fuel). Already had the sump cover off 2 times. 1 st time it was the gasket leaking. 2nd time the sump cover had cracked, I have no clue how. I guess it's a Unsolved Mower Mystery at the moment.

[@proflondonuk]

Honda lawnmower with blade brake starts, idles, runs ok. When the blade brake lever is pulled in, engine slows momentarily almost to zero, coughs and splutters then picks up full speed again turning the blades. Is that sluggish pickup telling me there's a gap or lash with the governor pulling open the throttle ?

[@voidvincent]

What is the videos name that Taryl used the solenoid to replace the piggy backed solenoid, anyone know?

[@CompetentSalesUSA]

Excellent! Unsolved mower mystery!

[@scrotiemcboogerballs1981]

I'm so glad I found your channel ☺️ so funny and informative you guys are awesome thank you for everything God bless you and your families

[@bobbysoto7328]

Lol....you guys are amazing !!!!

[@jimmypopp2695]

Taryl you sure know your shit brother!!!

[@somerandomguy3868]

I want to know what happened to the chainsaw, you'd have to stick a prybar or something like that while holding it wide open throttle to get that kind of damage, and who would do that?

[@johnkosheluk1041]

I have a vanguard gen and it is doing the same thing and the decomp seams to work it runs rich i put a brand new carb and coil on it did a leak down got 10% I set the valves to 6 and 8 do you think the decomp is bad

[@SWEETZ5544]

Hey how can I get torque specs for my Kohler engine and for my Kawasaki FX 730v engine

[@kjell-richardlvdal373]

Taryl engine doctor

[@williamgiampa4783]

THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION!!!

[@closertothetruth9209]

why even have compression release, surely it's a weak point in the long run. Be nice to see Taryll hot rod a mower engine .

[@shanekilgore7273]

It makes the engine compression ratio very low to ease the torque required by the starter. It's a sound idea. Much more necessary on higher horsepower, higher compression engines.

[@13bravoredleg18]

With weak battery's and starters nowadays, companies all use compression release systems.

[@closertothetruth9209]

@@JM-yx1lm just need a decent cca battery and a real starter motor, I know id bin the decompression and make the necessary mods, I mod everything if I don't like the design, can take quite a bit of time and effort and some money but it's worth it, been doing it for over 30 years.

[@montefiveforty1]

Love my Briggs single cyl rider...

[@oldroscoe2590]

"These are the times that try men's souls", If you were the medical system you'd be getting paid big time for test after test until you found the problem. I'm wondering if there is a certain pattern on an ignition scope that would indicate not enough resistance at the plug gap due to reduced compression? Does a lawnmower ignition ignition voltage vary with the speed of the engine?

[@paultheriot8703]

To question 1 yes, but a compression reading is more easily detectable. To question 2. The short answer is no. Ignition voltage is determined by the rotation of the crankshaft . The method is dependent on degrees of crankshaft rotation, not speed. And thank you for recognizing the unpaid plight of every retail mechanic. If doctors were paid the same way, 25% of the 1%ers would not be 1%ers, they would be poor folk. Like all the mechanics you know. That is why I got a real job 30 years ago.

[@henryrobinson9837]

would a compression check show low compression?

[@mowerstv4579]

Nice video, how much charge for that service ?

[@xx3868]

My old car engine dosent have a compression release and its run for 33 years! Just more crap to go wrong and maybe ruin your engine if the metal bits grind the inside! If your mower SM and battery are good, surely they should turn a reg engine without this release nonsense? Was it getting its intake air from the exhaust valve before the replacement cam? as it has to get intake air from somewhere?

[@5153flash]

I have a Kohler Command that burns oil and cannot figure out why. Total rebuilt,,new rings ,valve job,new breather assembly. It acts like the rings did not seat. And I have run it about 5 hours so far. It starts up with no smoke.. then after running it randomly will smoke at times. Very odd and from looking at the number 1 plug it is fouling on that side.

[@shanekilgore7273]

Do you mow on alot of hills?

[@heyinway]

Out of round cylinder, cylinder not deglazed, rings installed wrong...(not sized to cylinder, broken, dry start at initial start and scored cylinder wall), failed valve guide or seal

[@kevinleee3408]

Dang I really wanted to know what happened to that poor chainsaw

These engines are just made complicated for the sake of it. Why do they need a decompression system? Old engines never had them and fitting reed valves, to me every thing is going backwards.

[@dkeith45]

I often wonder if these problems are cropping up because of the ever upward HP of these engines. Seems like a race for ever more HP that is not actually needed to run the wheels and blades. At what point is there too much HP? One example of this, I have a mid 90's MTD GT2050 with a 20 hp Onan and a 50" deck. I also have a Craftsman GT5000 that's maybe ten years old, with a 25 hp Kohler twin and a 48" deck. Why the additional 5hp, and for a smaller deck no less? Seems to me the further you go back through the years, the smaller the engines HP gets even though the deck sizes remain the same.

[@rdetme4ever552]

Loved the show. But why not use the same cam with out the relief.

[@eustaciosaucedo4682]

Why do the engineers put a compression relief if all the other old engines didn't have one

[@FatHulkRideEbike]

"And THERE'S YOUR DINNER!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!"

[@calholli]

Why couldn't you just cut off the compression release and use the original cam on that v-twin? Charging the guy for a used cam that he doesn't need seems a little harsh-- but I get you have a lot of hours on this one. But that's not the customers fault--- idk.. I hate these types of jobs... lol.... The cost of learning isn't cheap.

[@dkeith45]

I was thinking the same thing. What if you don't have a replacement cam, and just remove the release parts and reinstall it? Would be an interesting experiment.

[@hansbehrends7063]

@@dkeith45 I know it is not the space shuttle, but probably the camshaft is out of balance without the parts for the compresion release.

[@dkeith45]

@@hansbehrends7063 Hm, that is a factor to consider.

[@johnsonslawnserviceministr4038]

Gear on gear ⚙️ that’s a legal in some states 🤣

[@bonzaibarty]

The cam you got from the junk pile that was bad is called a " Hamburger Cam". Ground round!!!!!!

[@TimZ007]

might be in oil filter. LOL

[@rollling7523]

I dont get it. How does it get fuel when there 's no air coming frum the carbetraitor ?

[@TurningGuns]

Air from the crankcase, thats my theory.

[@rollling7523]

@@TurningGuns With the oil as fuel ? Or gasoline in some way ?

[@shanekilgore7273]

It's still drawing fuel from the carb. But the pressure release opens on the compression stroke just enough to let in more air. It effectively changes the compression to a very low ratio such that it can still run and spin the engine but with minimal power. As such, it lowers the amount of suction at the carb.

[@TurningGuns]

@@rollling7523 the oil will foul the plugs, so no, their is air in the case and the breather supplies air, far as fuel, gravity can supply that, or a mechanical pump.

[@rollling7523]

@@TurningGuns Ok, like its dripping slowly from the carbetraitor to the valves.

[@jasongodin7165]

you good

[@rickeyjohnson4491]

Great video as all ways.

[@johnathanwright2690]

I have a Kohler mower it turn an stop won't spin an start

[@buddylove2943]

That’s Briggs cam shaft is Is warranty

[@kcrreedranch]

I been waiting all week to be first. I missed it by 2. Now let me watch this here movie.

[@hunter7476]

Thanks for the dinner that’s all I have to say

[@jeffwilson1693]

you need to sell that fake hair rug on your website.heck id wear one.and theres your supper!!!

[@BP83299]

F That crank case good videos!

[@scottwolverine3062]

rosco jenkins was almost 7 feet tall

[@billyjackson5799]

it wasn't running rich it was running lean the compression release being stuck creates a lean condition

[@roscoe454]

id save the old one, hold the weight out on the cam and spot weld it..presto! no release! it would work.

[@g86jn1]

CSI couldn’tve done it better .

[@mcombsemail]

Why not use the old cam with the compression release removed?

[@ryanw501]

Hey man I need ur help

[@oliverman-ff5gu]

This guy needs a Netflix show

[@mustie1]

dident see that coming,

[@lavendersneppo]

They said it was running rich, but I think they just mean it was making that distinctive “banging” noise like it was running rich. That sometimes happens if a valve is too tight so it doesn’t close, or in this case where the compression release was stuck. Since he could cover the carburetor with essentially no vacuum forming, I’m guessing the release is on the intake valve, so all the compression was pushing back through the intake manifold and the net air flow through the carb was essentially 0.

[@sewing1243]

@@lavendersneppo I believe the compression release is always on the exhaust valve(s) because the engineers wouldn't design an engine with air/fuel mixture/exhaust gasses being blown back out the intake/carburetor. The loss of suction on the intake is probably because air is being drawn back into the cylinders through the exhaust pipe/muffler.

[@lavendersneppo]

@@sewing1243 That isn't always true, the newer briggs single cylinder lawn tractor engines have the compression release on the intake and I'm sure others do too. Normally the blow back through the carb isn't a problem when starting because the release closes so quickly, but in this case it isn't closing. Most older engines had the release on the exhaust, but some newer ones are starting to be on the intake.

[@jose83771]

It seems more and more with kohler engines I don't see it coming lol,

[@ghostfox3560]

Or going?